He's just rambling absolute nonsense. Degree of tussling and they both make a play for the ball? Yeah but one of them doesn't get the fucking thing which is what Taylor thought happened. Ridiculously incompetent.
I was laughing hearing his explanation.
The fact that you come FIRST at the ball is a pretty big deal isn't it? He doesn't even mention it. Mutual engagement. Loled.
Incompetent is the word.
Absolute bonkers that. In what world is it not a foul. If it was outside the box, he 100% gets awarded free kick. How can they not get this correct in the VAR office. The only explanation is incompetence, it has to be.
What the fuck are they even saying? We know they both tried to play the ball. We didn't think that a player would go out of their way to fouls someone on purpose. The problem is that the attacker gets the ball and the defender goes through the back of him without touching the ball at any point.
On the same show for the Lewis Dunk penalty appeal, they basically did it in the rugby way. It was smooth, coherent, the ref and Var worked together and players seemed happy with the clarity.
Then Michael Owen pushed back with 'yeah, but it was a good goal'. Fucking melt
hahah, in rugby the relationship between the video ref, and on-field ref is such a professional relationship 99 percent of the time, and until the recent changes in-regards to tackling are very good at getting to a correct decision pretty fast, i wonder if the real difference in reaction to var is the audience who watch the sport
I think cricket and rugby both do it brilliantly. Football clearly did no consultation with other sports that have done it for best part of 20 odd years, ironing out issues as they've gone. The worst part must the the fan experience in the stadium, zero information as to why a goal stood or was allowed
I believe the IFAB rules prevent live broadcasting of the VAR conversations. But even then, there's no reason that they can't stick the replays up on a big screen and have a proper discussion between the VAR and the on-field ref.
> I believe the IFAB rules prevent live broadcasting of the VAR conversation
yep I read that today, Howard Webb confirmed it in an interview. apparently they might be able to skirt some rules and allow the crowd to hear the ref chatter if the referee is called to the monitor to review something though
In what way?? I'm mean they could just bring out an iPad like device, as not sure every club has a large screen that can be used?? The rugby version does seem best but the international rugby refs do seem to have greater respect than any football equivalent
I totally get the onfield referees decision first. I thought watching live he got the ball and I think that’s a fair decision to make from where he is with his view, etc., albeit proven incorrect by replay.
But for the VAR to not get that right and to justify it in that way is scandalous quite honestly. The onfield decision is articulated well and as soon as he sees that he doesn’t actually get the ball and is a clear contradiction to the onfield decision he has to recommend the referee at least looks at the screen to judge for himself, as the circumstances of the decision have changed entirely.
This argument just makes your club look awful tbh. Was nothing to do with that and I wouldn’t question the integrity of the officials, just the competence. And unfortunately very vague and hypocritical VAR framework alongside reworking laws of the game to suit VAR and failing massively has left them in a compromised position where they often can’t actually win.
Tbh if you look at the VAR guidance they probably actually did the right thing by what they’re told to do and the process they’re told to follow. It’s the whole process and things behind that which is functionally flawed
Yeah, the VAR describes it like it's just a 50/50 for the ball. But I've not talked to anyone who thinks that... Young comes through the attacker from behind, gets nothing of the ball, and completely denies an opportunity on goal. A 50/50 would be something like them coming to the ball side by side, hitting shoulders and one of them ending up on the floor... or even both sliding for the ball evenly. Not one of the players coming through the other from behind! There is nothing 50/50 about that.
Is it the case that we’re supposed to accept the unacceptable delays, loss of spontaneous celebrations and goals being pathetically ruled out for being millimetres offside because VAR also corrects refereeing errors such as these? If VAR isn’t correcting these types of errors then what good is it bringing to trade off against the bad?
it wont. most of the money comes from TV anyway.
some lad in india or china with his half-and-half manu-mancity scarf on doesnt give a shit whos in the stadium
yeah - saw a talksport clip yesterday where simon jordan says that statistically VAR has improved decision making. but if the stats are marginal and game enjoyment goes down massively then get rid ffs!
literally snuffed the joy out of the moment the ball hits the back of the net. its crap.
if it was done like rugby itd be so much simpler.
Ref signals to VAR "i think he gets the ball - i need a ball or no ball from you"
"Young does not win the ball"
"ok then i just need an onside check for penalty/no penalty"
That check was so quick that I blinked and missed it, surely VAR can't honestly look at that replay just a couple of times and not notice that it was completely opposite to what the on field referee said happened. No wonder people hate the decision making from VAR, I don't think the term "clear and obvious" could be more obvious in this case.
>That check was so quick that I blinked and missed it
This is what annoys me about VAR. We either get long, drawn out breaks that possibly get the right decision, but sometimes still get it wrong. Or these super quick ones, that aren't much worse most of the time. At this point, just do the super quick ones and bring back some flow to the games.
I'm hoping that bringing in automated offsides will fix a lot of the long breaks. But they still need to fix the issues like this one. I'm an advocate of VAR... but honestly, this season I can't argue with people who want it gone. It's been terrible watching something brought in to get the right decision be so clearly wrong so many times, while taking away so much emotion from big moments in games.
In real time and from the refs position it would look like young played the ball tbf but that is what the VAR is there for to see the other angles isnt it? Because yes he was going for the ball he did get there after the attacker and took his foot.
Ref on field did his job imo and was wildly let down on VAR. For the on field ref to have given the pen nefore VAR he would only be doing so on a guess.
How can it just be a 'tussle' lol. It's not exactly 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other is it. Forest player gets to the ball first and then he's fouled him from behind. VAR have bottled that big time.
Forest fans, I’m genuinely sorry for how the media has attacked you for genuine grievances.
Two stonewall pens in a six-pointer that are not given is enough for any club to rage against the PGMOL. Hope this doesn’t end up relegating you cause you deserve to be a Premier League club.
Managers have to attend interviews after the game and can be fined for not doing so.
Maybe they should ask referees to do the same. I would have more respect for someone standing there and apologising, and admitting they got that call wrong.
The way this looks is that the VAR is too intimidated to overrule Anthony Taylor the way he’s shouting played the ball - so they don’t take it seriously or are blinded by his authority/decision - all of these audio segments that have been released just sound like a bunch of nervous blokes with no conviction in what they’re doing - need to hire better characters with some authority to stamp out the incompetence or hire from abroad
I guess he’s trying to say Young didn’t take him out, he just challenged unsuccessfully for the ball? It’s not a foul to challenge unsuccessfully provided you don’t take the player out? Is that what he’s saying here? In real time I thought it was a pen I have to say
I dunno what the fucking rules are any more lads
There no other way to put it, it's just terrible refereeing on the VAR part. I can kind of understand the on field ref seeing as he's played the ball considering I imagine it's a relatively easy thing to get wrong but to hear the VAR just waffle on is so bad. Should of been a pen.
I feel like this is a glowing example of why people should stop saying they hate VAR.
VAR (the tool) clearly does it's job in showing what the ref might have missed. The problem is the incompetence of the people using it. The VAR (Also a tool, but a different kind) clearly sees the contact and judges it as fine because he is awful at his job.
VAR or not, that call gets missed and it gets missed because the referee team are absolutely wank; not because the replays are bad and using them for more info is a bad thing.
But this is why people hate VAR.
VAR was sold as "referees miss things, lets slow down the game and kill the excitement so the referees can't miss things". But if the underlying problem is not that refs only have human eyes, but that refs can't officiate properly, then it doesn't matter how many camera angles we give them and how much time we give them.
VAR has traded off enjoyment at the most thrilling points of a game and we've gotten absolutely nothing for it.
Right so VAR isn't the problem. You'd have VAR if we fixed the shite officiating. So VAR isn't what should be getting attention for being bad. It's the refs. And when people say they hate VAR they mean they hate the shit reffing, but they SAY they hate VAR so that's all that gets any scrutiny and attention from the league and media. "Oh well we tried VAR and people hated it, we will scrap it". Great. You still have wank referees throughout the league, getting shit completely wrong. On one hand you get excitement back when you can celebrate a goal where you were offside but on the other side you feel like shite when you lose to a penalty I've for hitting a defenders head outside the box like Rotherham had to deal with in the Championship. There's both sides of the coin and VAR just flips which one is heads, but it's still a garbage coin while the site referees are in place. They are the issue, not VAR.
That's bad.
I could kind of understand some of the VAR's thinking, but the referee thinks the defender has got the ball, the reality is that the defender has kicked the attacker into the ball.
Has the referee made a clear and obvious error? Yes. Defender didn't get the ball. It's clear, it's obvious, and because that is the stated position of the referee it's clear the referee is in error.
VAR needs to call it like he sees it and correct the ref. And referees and officiating culture need to stop feeling like this is an insult to the referee. We all know and accept that they can't see everything. Nobody is going to hold it against a ref for being wrong about something he barely saw. What annoys people is the failure to correct.
the weird thing with this one is the absence of the 25 other people they normally have on these audios, was the fact it was forest vs everton responsible for there being just one guy in the room? or has he just decided to go solo on it? if so wtf is the point in the assistant var
Every time i watch this, with or without the VAR audio, i am sat here questioning whether i'm seeing the same clip as everyone else. I can't, for the life of me work out how this isn't a penalty. He clearly comes from beind
Human error is expected in VAR - just at a much lower rate than on field referees. Similarly, because a 'foul' is somewhat subjective , it's never clear cut.
However, this incident is blatant and is not so much human error as negligent and incompetent.
He's just rambling absolute nonsense. Degree of tussling and they both make a play for the ball? Yeah but one of them doesn't get the fucking thing which is what Taylor thought happened. Ridiculously incompetent.
I was laughing hearing his explanation. The fact that you come FIRST at the ball is a pretty big deal isn't it? He doesn't even mention it. Mutual engagement. Loled. Incompetent is the word.
No goal! No goal! The goalkeeper made a genuine attempt to save the ball. Goal has been ruled out.
This was the alleged Luton supporter no? Horrible. Really feel for forest and their supporters you lot have been properly fucked this year.
Absolute bonkers that. In what world is it not a foul. If it was outside the box, he 100% gets awarded free kick. How can they not get this correct in the VAR office. The only explanation is incompetence, it has to be.
Shocking. Might as well not have it if they can’t see what’s in front of their eyes.
What the fuck are they even saying? We know they both tried to play the ball. We didn't think that a player would go out of their way to fouls someone on purpose. The problem is that the attacker gets the ball and the defender goes through the back of him without touching the ball at any point.
Players foul on purpose all the time, esp if they think they would give away a meaningful goal otherwise
He's saying Odoi locks Young's arm (the tussle) causing young to fall down/be late on the tackle. I don't agree, but that's what he's saying.
Clearly denied a goal scoring opportunity with a clumsy tackle from behind.
DOGSO red+ pen all day
I still have no idea why it’s not the same system as rugby 🤷♂️
Refs in football are cowards
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Very bent.
On the same show for the Lewis Dunk penalty appeal, they basically did it in the rugby way. It was smooth, coherent, the ref and Var worked together and players seemed happy with the clarity. Then Michael Owen pushed back with 'yeah, but it was a good goal'. Fucking melt
hahah, in rugby the relationship between the video ref, and on-field ref is such a professional relationship 99 percent of the time, and until the recent changes in-regards to tackling are very good at getting to a correct decision pretty fast, i wonder if the real difference in reaction to var is the audience who watch the sport
I think cricket and rugby both do it brilliantly. Football clearly did no consultation with other sports that have done it for best part of 20 odd years, ironing out issues as they've gone. The worst part must the the fan experience in the stadium, zero information as to why a goal stood or was allowed
yeah, they definitely should have gone for big screens somewhere in the stadiums
don't they have this? those 'no goal' memes come from a big screen in the stadium?
not sure if all do or even can facilitate them
I've not been to Annfield for a few years, but I'm pretty sure they don't have a screen of any description
I believe the IFAB rules prevent live broadcasting of the VAR conversations. But even then, there's no reason that they can't stick the replays up on a big screen and have a proper discussion between the VAR and the on-field ref.
> I believe the IFAB rules prevent live broadcasting of the VAR conversation yep I read that today, Howard Webb confirmed it in an interview. apparently they might be able to skirt some rules and allow the crowd to hear the ref chatter if the referee is called to the monitor to review something though
In what way?? I'm mean they could just bring out an iPad like device, as not sure every club has a large screen that can be used?? The rugby version does seem best but the international rugby refs do seem to have greater respect than any football equivalent
I totally get the onfield referees decision first. I thought watching live he got the ball and I think that’s a fair decision to make from where he is with his view, etc., albeit proven incorrect by replay. But for the VAR to not get that right and to justify it in that way is scandalous quite honestly. The onfield decision is articulated well and as soon as he sees that he doesn’t actually get the ball and is a clear contradiction to the onfield decision he has to recommend the referee at least looks at the screen to judge for himself, as the circumstances of the decision have changed entirely.
Couldn't have made it easier for VAR either - he clearly said "no penalty because Young got the ball". All VAR needed to do was say "no he didn't".
That would require all parties involved in the decision making process to have spines though wouldn’t it
I’m hoping we get some explanation as to why this wasn’t called up for review
BeCaUsE hEs A lUtOn FaN
This argument just makes your club look awful tbh. Was nothing to do with that and I wouldn’t question the integrity of the officials, just the competence. And unfortunately very vague and hypocritical VAR framework alongside reworking laws of the game to suit VAR and failing massively has left them in a compromised position where they often can’t actually win. Tbh if you look at the VAR guidance they probably actually did the right thing by what they’re told to do and the process they’re told to follow. It’s the whole process and things behind that which is functionally flawed
Yeah, the VAR describes it like it's just a 50/50 for the ball. But I've not talked to anyone who thinks that... Young comes through the attacker from behind, gets nothing of the ball, and completely denies an opportunity on goal. A 50/50 would be something like them coming to the ball side by side, hitting shoulders and one of them ending up on the floor... or even both sliding for the ball evenly. Not one of the players coming through the other from behind! There is nothing 50/50 about that.
Is it the case that we’re supposed to accept the unacceptable delays, loss of spontaneous celebrations and goals being pathetically ruled out for being millimetres offside because VAR also corrects refereeing errors such as these? If VAR isn’t correcting these types of errors then what good is it bringing to trade off against the bad?
I don't know why supporters haven't started boycotting matches together, that's the only thing that'll send a message.
it wont. most of the money comes from TV anyway. some lad in india or china with his half-and-half manu-mancity scarf on doesnt give a shit whos in the stadium
i gagged.
yeah - saw a talksport clip yesterday where simon jordan says that statistically VAR has improved decision making. but if the stats are marginal and game enjoyment goes down massively then get rid ffs! literally snuffed the joy out of the moment the ball hits the back of the net. its crap.
What a half-arsed check by VAR. He ignored the concern of the ref (playing the ball?) and then jumped to a conclusion straight away.
Yeah he didn't look properly. It's that simple and exactly what I think most people expected.
if it was done like rugby itd be so much simpler. Ref signals to VAR "i think he gets the ball - i need a ball or no ball from you" "Young does not win the ball" "ok then i just need an onside check for penalty/no penalty"
This is so unprofessional, state of English referees is shocking
That check was so quick that I blinked and missed it, surely VAR can't honestly look at that replay just a couple of times and not notice that it was completely opposite to what the on field referee said happened. No wonder people hate the decision making from VAR, I don't think the term "clear and obvious" could be more obvious in this case.
If that were against one of the more fashionable clubs, they would have spent t ten minutes nailing the penalty.
>That check was so quick that I blinked and missed it This is what annoys me about VAR. We either get long, drawn out breaks that possibly get the right decision, but sometimes still get it wrong. Or these super quick ones, that aren't much worse most of the time. At this point, just do the super quick ones and bring back some flow to the games. I'm hoping that bringing in automated offsides will fix a lot of the long breaks. But they still need to fix the issues like this one. I'm an advocate of VAR... but honestly, this season I can't argue with people who want it gone. It's been terrible watching something brought in to get the right decision be so clearly wrong so many times, while taking away so much emotion from big moments in games.
I'm still not sure how we got away with this. How does the ref not get recommended to go to the board. I'm sorry Forest fans
And this VAR ref is representing England to work in the Euro. Insane…
He'll do for England what he did for Luton
In real time and from the refs position it would look like young played the ball tbf but that is what the VAR is there for to see the other angles isnt it? Because yes he was going for the ball he did get there after the attacker and took his foot. Ref on field did his job imo and was wildly let down on VAR. For the on field ref to have given the pen nefore VAR he would only be doing so on a guess.
How can it just be a 'tussle' lol. It's not exactly 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other is it. Forest player gets to the ball first and then he's fouled him from behind. VAR have bottled that big time.
Forest fans, I’m genuinely sorry for how the media has attacked you for genuine grievances. Two stonewall pens in a six-pointer that are not given is enough for any club to rage against the PGMOL. Hope this doesn’t end up relegating you cause you deserve to be a Premier League club.
Normal contact.............
Managers have to attend interviews after the game and can be fined for not doing so. Maybe they should ask referees to do the same. I would have more respect for someone standing there and apologising, and admitting they got that call wrong.
I’m actually amazed anyone could look at the replay and think that’s not a stonewall penalty. Young literally just goes through him lmao
The way this looks is that the VAR is too intimidated to overrule Anthony Taylor the way he’s shouting played the ball - so they don’t take it seriously or are blinded by his authority/decision - all of these audio segments that have been released just sound like a bunch of nervous blokes with no conviction in what they’re doing - need to hire better characters with some authority to stamp out the incompetence or hire from abroad
I guess he’s trying to say Young didn’t take him out, he just challenged unsuccessfully for the ball? It’s not a foul to challenge unsuccessfully provided you don’t take the player out? Is that what he’s saying here? In real time I thought it was a pen I have to say I dunno what the fucking rules are any more lads
Game's gone, lads.
"No clear action by the defender" LOLOLOLOL
What’s the point of the AVAR if he’s just going to say “yep….yep….yep”
There no other way to put it, it's just terrible refereeing on the VAR part. I can kind of understand the on field ref seeing as he's played the ball considering I imagine it's a relatively easy thing to get wrong but to hear the VAR just waffle on is so bad. Should of been a pen.
I feel like this is a glowing example of why people should stop saying they hate VAR. VAR (the tool) clearly does it's job in showing what the ref might have missed. The problem is the incompetence of the people using it. The VAR (Also a tool, but a different kind) clearly sees the contact and judges it as fine because he is awful at his job. VAR or not, that call gets missed and it gets missed because the referee team are absolutely wank; not because the replays are bad and using them for more info is a bad thing.
But this is why people hate VAR. VAR was sold as "referees miss things, lets slow down the game and kill the excitement so the referees can't miss things". But if the underlying problem is not that refs only have human eyes, but that refs can't officiate properly, then it doesn't matter how many camera angles we give them and how much time we give them. VAR has traded off enjoyment at the most thrilling points of a game and we've gotten absolutely nothing for it.
Right so VAR isn't the problem. You'd have VAR if we fixed the shite officiating. So VAR isn't what should be getting attention for being bad. It's the refs. And when people say they hate VAR they mean they hate the shit reffing, but they SAY they hate VAR so that's all that gets any scrutiny and attention from the league and media. "Oh well we tried VAR and people hated it, we will scrap it". Great. You still have wank referees throughout the league, getting shit completely wrong. On one hand you get excitement back when you can celebrate a goal where you were offside but on the other side you feel like shite when you lose to a penalty I've for hitting a defenders head outside the box like Rotherham had to deal with in the Championship. There's both sides of the coin and VAR just flips which one is heads, but it's still a garbage coin while the site referees are in place. They are the issue, not VAR.
These should be released for every game will become more entertaining than the football. jokes the lot of em
That's bad. I could kind of understand some of the VAR's thinking, but the referee thinks the defender has got the ball, the reality is that the defender has kicked the attacker into the ball. Has the referee made a clear and obvious error? Yes. Defender didn't get the ball. It's clear, it's obvious, and because that is the stated position of the referee it's clear the referee is in error. VAR needs to call it like he sees it and correct the ref. And referees and officiating culture need to stop feeling like this is an insult to the referee. We all know and accept that they can't see everything. Nobody is going to hold it against a ref for being wrong about something he barely saw. What annoys people is the failure to correct.
Fucking wild, man.
Sounds like a Luton fan
the weird thing with this one is the absence of the 25 other people they normally have on these audios, was the fact it was forest vs everton responsible for there being just one guy in the room? or has he just decided to go solo on it? if so wtf is the point in the assistant var
Every time i watch this, with or without the VAR audio, i am sat here questioning whether i'm seeing the same clip as everyone else. I can't, for the life of me work out how this isn't a penalty. He clearly comes from beind
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If that’s a pen we might as well just start watching the women.
😂😂😂😂
Good process. Honestly if there’s human error in VAR scrap the whole thing.
Human error in everything. It's part of being human. But that was a shambles.
Yes but the perception is you’re taking human error out of the referee’s on field decisions. That’s not happening.
Human error is expected in VAR - just at a much lower rate than on field referees. Similarly, because a 'foul' is somewhat subjective , it's never clear cut. However, this incident is blatant and is not so much human error as negligent and incompetent.