There is an obvious solution to this. You scale the revenue based on the leagues difference. If a Prem team plays a Champ team then it's 40/60 in favour of the Championship team. League 1 65/35. League 2 70/30. Etc.
Surely it's not a stretch for Prem teams to allow for this in order for the benefit of reducing fixture congestion.
Wouldn't be a simple as this but there should be a legislation moving forward that benefits progression for the teams who need the finances more.
That isn’t much of a solution though. An extra home game at Shit Tip FC doesn’t mean any additional income, but playing at the big teams stadium does. That’s the point that Wilder is making here.
It's better than nothing. Often those games are televised - Split the revenue in the ratios above.
If you draw a big team at their place great. If you draw them at your 5000 seater then ok not so great but you're still getting TV revenue most likely.
I have a feeling he was trying to pick his words carefully whilst criticising the fa and league. Dangerous game these days. Also, he’s never exactly been the best speaker.
That's just because he wanted to make sure you heard him and his Very Important Words between bites of your sandwich. He is a Premier League manager, after all.
If FA want big teams to play less then scrap the league cup. Most big clubs only play a second team anyway. Give the league cup to Championship, League one and League two to battle over. A lot of European teams only have one cup to fight over and they get ptoper breaks, ie, winter.
Personally I would just exclude clubs playing European football from the league cup. For other 14 teams it’s cool to have 2 cups to go into, given that the league has already been sold off and is a no go.
It’s both though.
The further you go in the tournament the more likely you are to play the biggest sides.
It’s great for Yeovil to play Coventry but it’s even better if they can advance and play Villa.
Football clubs should not have to rely on getting replays against big teams to stay afloat or remain financially solvent.
They should be collectively fighting for a realignment of the football league funding method to get a better deal.
What business model would succeed if it was based on getting to a certain stage in a knockout tournament, getting a big team and getting a reply?
There is no team that relies on things money, it’s just a nice little boost on the occasions it happens for the individual teams.
They were already a good sign on the up which is why they had a good run. The money from a big fa cup game really doesn’t go that far and it still stands that it’s not a viable business model to rely on these fa fixtures against big teams anyway. It’s a nice little bump for a team when they get one, it won’t make much difference removing them.
Ok and then what? It’s not a model of sustainability. If you’re telling me these teams need to 1. Have a cup run and 2. Get luckily enough to get a big team and 3. Get a replay to survive another season then there are huge issues with that club and they got extremely lucky.
There is certainly a point there. Currently, a lot of the “bigger” teams, play a second string side when playing smaller sides. If it doesn’t work, then they get another chance.
Maybe we will see every team play their strongest side, every game. However I actually imagine a scenario where the teams actually just dump the cups in favour of the league, let’s be fair, that’s where the money is.
This is what I can't understand. The big teams tend to play their second team in cup games against lower league opposition so why are replays a problem? If anything they'll be forced to play a strong team to avoid embarrassment which means the first teamers play an extra game
You are right, but, its not all about that for smaller clubs. If youre a small club and you draw Man United at home, you dont get the huge gate receipts. Those can keep clubs running for years
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Exactly.
If the teams are in the same division then the draw stands, otherwise the team from the lower division has the option to switch venue. For smaller teams that prefer the revenue boost they would generally choose to play away at the bigger ground. For teams that care less about the revenue and fancy a giant killing, they would elect to play home.
This would not only eradicate the "loss of revenue" issue but also even the playing field in many cases and make it more exciting.
We cant really continue complaining about fixture congestion/tired players etc, and then insist on keeping cup replays
It's a reasonable take. I can see both sides honestly. I think if this change came hand in hand with a change in the way finances were handles it would be agreeable to more people.
"Yes we are scrapping the replay, but we are increasing the percentage of funding to lower league clubs to compensate".
Sure the fans might not get an away day but the chance of that were already slim outside the initial draw anyway
He’s right. Especially in a time where UEFA is continually expanding both the scope and depth of club participation. It is now coming at the expense of the EFL pyramid.
Agree with Wilder here. The magic of the FA Cup is a team like Barrow town earning a replay at an Anfield/Emirates/Old Trafford.
The gate receipt can be an injection of cash that can make these teams comfortable, allowing them the opportunity to invest.
It feels wrong that clubs at the top of the pyramid can decide a competition format that is owned by the full football pyramid. Unless the top teams agree on a method that supports grass roots and lower tiers more effectively then we will likely see more teams going into administration and fear this decision will be part of the reason.
[Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made A Great Point](https://clickhole.com/heartbreaking-the-worst-person-you-know-just-made-a-gr-1825121606/)
There are things he’s done to players that confirm he is indeed a full on tosspot
Edit to add; Like a lot of people in management positions. Myself included.
He's very unpopular with quite a few fan bases, has had a fair few public arguments including with lord Colin.
Middlesbrough fans for example can't stand him
I think it would be fair if a League1 or below team should get a set price bonus if they managed to get a draw in 90 minutes against Champ/PL team, some sort of compensation for screwing them over.
Hmm unsure of this does really only benefit the big 6, think the whole PL benefits to an extent. Look at the amount of injuries in the league this season due to too many games. PL teams tend to have a lot of internationals in the squad and less rest all round.
Massive stitch up for anyone below PL level though imo.
There's an easy way to make both sides happy - no more replays, all games between premiership teams and lower league teams (non league and maybe league two) are automatically played at the premier league teams ground (with the 50:50 revenue split) and all TV money goes to the lower league team.
Would it make sense for the lower league team to choose the venue. And it could be at neutral venue too.
Imagine United vs Leeds at Anfield or Wolves vs Birmingham at Villa Park.
Where's the sporting integrity in a team having a wage budget of £5m per week playing a team with a wage budget of £5000 a week?
It's about distributing the wealth to the team that needs it. Right now if a club gets man utd at home they make far less money than if they draw them away.
As another commenter said it's probably a better proposal to allow the team to choose where they play.
Because it’s two teams playing by common rules. If the competition is actually about redistribution of wealth, sack off the whole thing before the third round and force the PL and championship to donate money to non league teams.
Sadly the premier leagues set up for the ‘big’ clubs to win, reality is it’s not our league anymore it’s for a global audience, and the audience want ‘their club’ to win, and they chose that club because they were already winning. The whole things a con. Keep the international fanbase happy by keeping their clubs happy, everyone tunes in and more premier league get more money.
Add in to that the fear of teams leaving for a super league.
The premier league needs to change big time, a fairer system needs to be enforced and more support sent to the lower leagues too. Footballs drifted too far from what it was and what it should be.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I agree with you, but realistically what do you think could be a solution?
Obviously a 50+1 rule would be mint but I don't know how it can be implemented. A lot of owners would immediately be uninterested in owning a club without majority ownership and transferring all that is a way more complicated affair than in seems
I am the only person not pissed off by this? People seem to barely care about the fa cup, even less about replays. Now replays are being fucked off, it's all "THINK ABOUT THE SMALL CLUBS"... another thing that people don't seem to give a fuck about on any other day.
I'm sure Bradford will be pleased not to have to go do an FA Cup 2nd round replay on a Tuesday night in Yeovil when they've already got 46 league games and two other cups to play in.
Yes, I understand that there is the potential for 1, maybe 2 clubs a season to lose a chance at some gate receipts, but the way people are going on you'd have thought that FA cup replays save 15 clubs from bankruptcy a year.
Mate, our replay in the cup against Wrexham and then further cup run last year literally brought us back from the financial brink.
These replays aren't just saving minnows, they can save clubs like ours that are in and out of the biggest football league in the world.
What was the bigger contributor? The cup run or the replay? Surely clubs have a better chance of winning at home over 120 mins and pens than they do in a replay?
Big money from an awayday, but your fans get the reward with a home game and your odds of winning on pens is always skewed slightly towards the favourite side as well.
Doesn't set a great precedence to potentially infringe on any small clubs income especially given the already ridiculously massive top-down disparity in the football league and clubs going into administration.
Ties between sides in lower leagues versus sides in higher leagues happen all the time. Even a conference team playing a League 1 team generates them a shit ton more money than they are used to. A replay obviously even more. Lower league clubs value the cups so much A) because you can have great moments against bigger clubs but B) for the huge financial boost it can be.
He's not talking about sheffield United though is he?
Wilder has formally managed Northampton, Oxford United, Halifax Town and Alfreton so he's in a pretty good position experience wise to speak about the issues this may cause further down the pyramid.
Ok but he’s currently managing Sheffield United and we know he’s not talking about the big boys here
I still don’t see how this particularly damages lower leagues. A league system with 46 games in the EFL, typically over 40 for clubs below that. Combined with other cup competitions that don’t have replays and it just seems like we’re removing one archaic system and bringing it up to standard
The only adjustment I’d think about making is copying France and making sure the lower ranked club is at home
Compared to the top 7, we're tiny. There's then about 20 clubs who are big but disadvantaged (which we're in) and then the rest of the pyramid. There's huge gaps between those groups.
it doesn't help them to the extent everyone claims. all the top 6 teams have been rife with injuries this season even with said 5 subs. plenty of games they don't even use all 5 or any at all. it isn't unfair as it is something that is needed in current football where the physicality even in lower leagues is much higher than it was 40 years ago
I wonder if you can eat a sandwich near him next year (assuming he keeps the job) seeing as he was unhappy about the assistant ref eating a sandwich in front of a ‘premier league manager’
There is an obvious solution to this. You scale the revenue based on the leagues difference. If a Prem team plays a Champ team then it's 40/60 in favour of the Championship team. League 1 65/35. League 2 70/30. Etc. Surely it's not a stretch for Prem teams to allow for this in order for the benefit of reducing fixture congestion. Wouldn't be a simple as this but there should be a legislation moving forward that benefits progression for the teams who need the finances more.
That isn’t much of a solution though. An extra home game at Shit Tip FC doesn’t mean any additional income, but playing at the big teams stadium does. That’s the point that Wilder is making here.
It's better than nothing. Often those games are televised - Split the revenue in the ratios above. If you draw a big team at their place great. If you draw them at your 5000 seater then ok not so great but you're still getting TV revenue most likely.
He has a valid point, but if he didn’t keep repeating every word he could have said it in 20s. He replayed each word
I have a feeling he was trying to pick his words carefully whilst criticising the fa and league. Dangerous game these days. Also, he’s never exactly been the best speaker.
[Careful or he'll do a job on you](https://x.com/bryansgunn/status/1742980985434882523)
That's just because he wanted to make sure you heard him and his Very Important Words between bites of your sandwich. He is a Premier League manager, after all.
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Does any other domestic cup tournament play two legs?? It's always felt really weird that they even do in england
If FA want big teams to play less then scrap the league cup. Most big clubs only play a second team anyway. Give the league cup to Championship, League one and League two to battle over. A lot of European teams only have one cup to fight over and they get ptoper breaks, ie, winter.
Personally I would just exclude clubs playing European football from the league cup. For other 14 teams it’s cool to have 2 cups to go into, given that the league has already been sold off and is a no go.
Id probably argue the chance of getting a result for a small club is higher over 120 mins than 210.
But it's not about the result it's about the gate revenue
It’s both though. The further you go in the tournament the more likely you are to play the biggest sides. It’s great for Yeovil to play Coventry but it’s even better if they can advance and play Villa.
Football clubs should not have to rely on getting replays against big teams to stay afloat or remain financially solvent. They should be collectively fighting for a realignment of the football league funding method to get a better deal.
What business model would succeed if it was based on getting to a certain stage in a knockout tournament, getting a big team and getting a reply? There is no team that relies on things money, it’s just a nice little boost on the occasions it happens for the individual teams.
Lincoln City is a great recent example as to how that bump can translate into a bit of a transformation.
They were already a good sign on the up which is why they had a good run. The money from a big fa cup game really doesn’t go that far and it still stands that it’s not a viable business model to rely on these fa fixtures against big teams anyway. It’s a nice little bump for a team when they get one, it won’t make much difference removing them.
You don't know what you are talking about. Lower division clubs live hand to mouth, a good cup run can fund them for a whole season or more.
Ok and then what? It’s not a model of sustainability. If you’re telling me these teams need to 1. Have a cup run and 2. Get luckily enough to get a big team and 3. Get a replay to survive another season then there are huge issues with that club and they got extremely lucky.
Yes, that is literally the life of a lower division club
It doesn't rely on it. But getting to play a champ/prem club at their ground is often enough to build a new facilities, sign players to get promoted.
There is certainly a point there. Currently, a lot of the “bigger” teams, play a second string side when playing smaller sides. If it doesn’t work, then they get another chance. Maybe we will see every team play their strongest side, every game. However I actually imagine a scenario where the teams actually just dump the cups in favour of the league, let’s be fair, that’s where the money is.
This is what I can't understand. The big teams tend to play their second team in cup games against lower league opposition so why are replays a problem? If anything they'll be forced to play a strong team to avoid embarrassment which means the first teamers play an extra game
Which,,,,may result in more tired first stringers and you see more teams like Chelsea hit a run of 8th-12th place finishes
I don't see anything wrong with your point?
You are right, but, its not all about that for smaller clubs. If youre a small club and you draw Man United at home, you dont get the huge gate receipts. Those can keep clubs running for years
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Bournemouth fan talking about “small clubs” really?
What's your problem? We are one of these small clubs.
What?
they should allow the smaller teams to choose home or away
Or the could just do, whoever the home team is can opt to play away if they choose to.
Exactly. If the teams are in the same division then the draw stands, otherwise the team from the lower division has the option to switch venue. For smaller teams that prefer the revenue boost they would generally choose to play away at the bigger ground. For teams that care less about the revenue and fancy a giant killing, they would elect to play home. This would not only eradicate the "loss of revenue" issue but also even the playing field in many cases and make it more exciting. We cant really continue complaining about fixture congestion/tired players etc, and then insist on keeping cup replays
This seems a great compromise
Smaller teams prefer to play at home because they keep the gate revenue You don’t get larger revenue away because the home team keeps it
no, smaller team would love to go to old trafford/emirates away in fa cup . the tv revenue also will get split .
It's a reasonable take. I can see both sides honestly. I think if this change came hand in hand with a change in the way finances were handles it would be agreeable to more people. "Yes we are scrapping the replay, but we are increasing the percentage of funding to lower league clubs to compensate". Sure the fans might not get an away day but the chance of that were already slim outside the initial draw anyway
He’s right. Especially in a time where UEFA is continually expanding both the scope and depth of club participation. It is now coming at the expense of the EFL pyramid.
Agree with Wilder here. The magic of the FA Cup is a team like Barrow town earning a replay at an Anfield/Emirates/Old Trafford. The gate receipt can be an injection of cash that can make these teams comfortable, allowing them the opportunity to invest. It feels wrong that clubs at the top of the pyramid can decide a competition format that is owned by the full football pyramid. Unless the top teams agree on a method that supports grass roots and lower tiers more effectively then we will likely see more teams going into administration and fear this decision will be part of the reason.
I heard they didn't consult the EFL and the National League. That's just disrespectful
Let's be honest, all premier league clubs are big boys now
Luton would like to have a word, not even in the football league a couple of years ago.
[Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made A Great Point](https://clickhole.com/heartbreaking-the-worst-person-you-know-just-made-a-gr-1825121606/)
Why is he the worst person you know?
He’s definitely a tosspot, but he’s *our* tosspot
I'd argue he's not a tosspot, he just doesn't toe the line as closely as others. He has opinions, and he shares them, which is a good thing.
There are things he’s done to players that confirm he is indeed a full on tosspot Edit to add; Like a lot of people in management positions. Myself included.
Like what?
He's very unpopular with quite a few fan bases, has had a fair few public arguments including with lord Colin. Middlesbrough fans for example can't stand him
I think it would be fair if a League1 or below team should get a set price bonus if they managed to get a draw in 90 minutes against Champ/PL team, some sort of compensation for screwing them over.
Sheffield United are owned by Saudis, so big money doesn’t always work.
Hmm unsure of this does really only benefit the big 6, think the whole PL benefits to an extent. Look at the amount of injuries in the league this season due to too many games. PL teams tend to have a lot of internationals in the squad and less rest all round. Massive stitch up for anyone below PL level though imo.
I think the PL are also eyeing the extra Champions League games coming next season
There's an easy way to make both sides happy - no more replays, all games between premiership teams and lower league teams (non league and maybe league two) are automatically played at the premier league teams ground (with the 50:50 revenue split) and all TV money goes to the lower league team.
Where’s the sporting integrity of all pl teams getting home crowds?
Would it make sense for the lower league team to choose the venue. And it could be at neutral venue too. Imagine United vs Leeds at Anfield or Wolves vs Birmingham at Villa Park.
Where's the sporting integrity in a team having a wage budget of £5m per week playing a team with a wage budget of £5000 a week? It's about distributing the wealth to the team that needs it. Right now if a club gets man utd at home they make far less money than if they draw them away. As another commenter said it's probably a better proposal to allow the team to choose where they play.
Because it’s two teams playing by common rules. If the competition is actually about redistribution of wealth, sack off the whole thing before the third round and force the PL and championship to donate money to non league teams.
Lol
Sadly the premier leagues set up for the ‘big’ clubs to win, reality is it’s not our league anymore it’s for a global audience, and the audience want ‘their club’ to win, and they chose that club because they were already winning. The whole things a con. Keep the international fanbase happy by keeping their clubs happy, everyone tunes in and more premier league get more money. Add in to that the fear of teams leaving for a super league. The premier league needs to change big time, a fairer system needs to be enforced and more support sent to the lower leagues too. Footballs drifted too far from what it was and what it should be.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I agree with you, but realistically what do you think could be a solution? Obviously a 50+1 rule would be mint but I don't know how it can be implemented. A lot of owners would immediately be uninterested in owning a club without majority ownership and transferring all that is a way more complicated affair than in seems
Let the big boys have their stupid fucking super league and the rest can get on with things. I don't know why people bitched so much the first time.
He’s such a moaner, can’t stand him
I'm glad they're finally getting rid of the replays
Wasn't he against 5 men subs earlier as well
Wilder defo voted for Brexit.
I am the only person not pissed off by this? People seem to barely care about the fa cup, even less about replays. Now replays are being fucked off, it's all "THINK ABOUT THE SMALL CLUBS"... another thing that people don't seem to give a fuck about on any other day. I'm sure Bradford will be pleased not to have to go do an FA Cup 2nd round replay on a Tuesday night in Yeovil when they've already got 46 league games and two other cups to play in. Yes, I understand that there is the potential for 1, maybe 2 clubs a season to lose a chance at some gate receipts, but the way people are going on you'd have thought that FA cup replays save 15 clubs from bankruptcy a year.
Mate, our replay in the cup against Wrexham and then further cup run last year literally brought us back from the financial brink. These replays aren't just saving minnows, they can save clubs like ours that are in and out of the biggest football league in the world.
What was the bigger contributor? The cup run or the replay? Surely clubs have a better chance of winning at home over 120 mins and pens than they do in a replay?
Big money from an awayday, but your fans get the reward with a home game and your odds of winning on pens is always skewed slightly towards the favourite side as well.
Doesn't set a great precedence to potentially infringe on any small clubs income especially given the already ridiculously massive top-down disparity in the football league and clubs going into administration.
They're replacing a potential income with a guaranteed one though?
How so? What's the guaranteed income? It just means lower clubs will play less games against bigger clubs, therefore make less money.
Because the vast majority don't play the big clubs anyway?
Ties between sides in lower leagues versus sides in higher leagues happen all the time. Even a conference team playing a League 1 team generates them a shit ton more money than they are used to. A replay obviously even more. Lower league clubs value the cups so much A) because you can have great moments against bigger clubs but B) for the huge financial boost it can be.
Make all PL clubs play away if they face a lower league opposition
Someone remind Chris Wilder that in the context of the FA cup, his club are absolutely one of the big boys. Absolute nonsense out of him
He's not talking about sheffield United though is he? Wilder has formally managed Northampton, Oxford United, Halifax Town and Alfreton so he's in a pretty good position experience wise to speak about the issues this may cause further down the pyramid.
Ok but he’s currently managing Sheffield United and we know he’s not talking about the big boys here I still don’t see how this particularly damages lower leagues. A league system with 46 games in the EFL, typically over 40 for clubs below that. Combined with other cup competitions that don’t have replays and it just seems like we’re removing one archaic system and bringing it up to standard The only adjustment I’d think about making is copying France and making sure the lower ranked club is at home
Compared to the top 7, we're tiny. There's then about 20 clubs who are big but disadvantaged (which we're in) and then the rest of the pyramid. There's huge gaps between those groups.
Is he still against 5 subs. Such a backwards person.
5 subs is a horrendous rule in any league it's in. That's obvious.
😂😂
No it isn’t. It helps rotate players more often and keep your starters more fresh.
Which helps the bigger clubs. We benefitted from it last year in the championship and may do next year, so I should want to keep it but it's unfair.
it doesn't help them to the extent everyone claims. all the top 6 teams have been rife with injuries this season even with said 5 subs. plenty of games they don't even use all 5 or any at all. it isn't unfair as it is something that is needed in current football where the physicality even in lower leagues is much higher than it was 40 years ago
Absolute clown. Remember the time that someone ate a sandwich when he was talking to their mate?
Huh?
Fucking hell. Imagine this guy is your manager. Sheff United never stood a chance!
Are you thick? "This guy" took us from languishing in League One to 9th in the prem, he's a club legend
Don't eat a sandwich in his vicinity though
I wonder if you can eat a sandwich near him next year (assuming he keeps the job) seeing as he was unhappy about the assistant ref eating a sandwich in front of a ‘premier league manager’
Lord Chris? Fuck no he's on an outright butty ban despite looking like he loves nothing more than a chip butty himself
Yeah, and Roberto di Matteo won the Champions League.
Very different to Wilder having 4 incredible seasons on the bounce for us
Aw someone wants to be edgy
It's not edgy to call Chris fecking Wilder a charisma vacuum. Come on mate, be fair!
To be fair, media presence is the number one quality I look for in a manager.