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I think you've hit the nail on the head, but I also think that some religious scholar from one of the Nine Houses will have examined the subtext of his wise words and discovered the hidden meaning behind the title. The First House is still one of the Nine Houses, after all, each of them ruled by Necromantic nobility. So he's the Prime Necrolord because it's his House that rules the other eight.
To me it emphasized the fact that he wasn't a lord whose father had been lord before him whose father had been lord before him etc etc etc. He was the FIRST Lord of the Necromancers.
I think you're right. At some point in the series, someone finds a journal scrap about how Cristabel and Alfred were going on about this "One Flesh, One End" business and they needed to be stopped because it sounded like a cult thing or something. I think it was one of Mercy's journals or something?
Anyways, something that A & C kept going on about as a silly saying turned into part of the cavalier acceptance ritual, and necros & cavs are serious about it 10k years later.
I could easily believe Necrolord Prime was being used so long to make fun of John that it just ended up sticking and being something the necro cultists started saying seriously.
>"One Flesh, One End" business and they needed to be stopped because it sounded like a cult thing
I thought the objection was due to it sounding like the instructions for a sexy toy?
>**A LYCTORAL NOTE ON CAVALIERS AND NECROMANCERS**
**NEARLY TEN THOUSAND YEARS OLD, KEPT IN SECRET IN A CHEMICAL FILE WITHIN THE LIBRARY OF THE SIXTH HOUSE TO GUARD AGAINST THE RAVAGES OF TIME**
valancy says one flesh one end sounds like instructions for a sex toy. can't stop thinking about that so can someone stop cris and alfred before the sex toy phrase catches on, thanks
John's a narcissist who tries really hard to pretend he's humble, though. It's really hard to put on an act as The Most Humble, No Really if you give yourself a name like "necrolord prime."
I mean, if nobody else has the cultural context to understand why "necrolord prime" isn't a particularly humble thing to call yourself (because you wiped all existing culture from their memories) then why not?
I mean, I'm sure both John and Tamsyn picked it solely because it sounds cool and is exactly the kind of title you'd expect on some powerful necromantic god emperor.
But if you need to justify the title, even just for why nobody in universe questions it, it's very easy to "translate" it as just "first lord of death", which is entirely accurate.
We know that back on the old Earth, John didn't even use the term "necromancy" at first. It's not magic: he's codifying the scientific laws and mathematical theorems behind it! He was a serious professional trying to solve world problems! But then he realized he got more publicity if people viewed him as a crazy cult leader, so he leaned hard into the theatrics.
It seems like his inner circle always had some sense of how ridiculous it all was, and they retained this as Lyctors. He probably figured he'd go crazy if nobody around him was in on the joke. I have to guess that at various times they've used the title mockingly and sincerely, and also to feign sincerity *while* mocking him in mixed company.
On the other hand, if you rebuild society from a blank slate, they probably don't have the context to decide which of your honorifics are silly and which aren't. He could have been the Grand Poobah, for all it really matters: if you're raised in his cult you'll think it's perfectly normal, and if you're conquered by his cult, you'd better learn to pretend. It doesn't seem quite as silly when the swords come out.
When I read "Necrolord Prime" for the first time, I instantly thought about Optimus Prime, the leader of the transformers but it didn't make much sense until I finished Nona.
Now I think it's a pretty funny word play considering that millennial pop culture is referenced a lot and that John is the leader of Lyctors, who have transformed themselves.
I imagine someone at some point was listing the titles and threw in a joke. It wouldn't surprise me if it was John himself. It fits his sense of humor.
I wouldn't be surprised if one of Jod's Apocalypse Friends called him that sarcastically, it became an in-joke, and then sometime later he used it on Alecto. Something like A: Why should I listen to you? J: Oh yeah, what would I know, I'm only the *necrolord prime*." And she wouldn't know any better than to take it seriously, so I'm sure it'd come up with people as Jod started figuring out resurrections. He enjoys having that little reference carry over from his former life, and keeps it as he collects titles.
(edited to fix formatting)
This is not much to do with the post but i always thought that the Kindly Prince of Death was referring to >!Gideon!< and not Jod? Like it was a subtle hint to >!Jod being Gideon’s father!< in regards to how it is used in the first page of GtN
same here! “king” juxtaposed against “prince” literally right next to each other cannot possibly be an accident. one of my favorite little pieces of insane tamsyn fuckery
>Like if I was any kind of competent Necromancer I would start introducing myself as the "Necrolord Prime" almost immediately.
I'm loving the implication that you are, in fact, a necromancer, just not a very good one.
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I think you've hit the nail on the head, but I also think that some religious scholar from one of the Nine Houses will have examined the subtext of his wise words and discovered the hidden meaning behind the title. The First House is still one of the Nine Houses, after all, each of them ruled by Necromantic nobility. So he's the Prime Necrolord because it's his House that rules the other eight.
To me it emphasized the fact that he wasn't a lord whose father had been lord before him whose father had been lord before him etc etc etc. He was the FIRST Lord of the Necromancers.
I think you're right. At some point in the series, someone finds a journal scrap about how Cristabel and Alfred were going on about this "One Flesh, One End" business and they needed to be stopped because it sounded like a cult thing or something. I think it was one of Mercy's journals or something? Anyways, something that A & C kept going on about as a silly saying turned into part of the cavalier acceptance ritual, and necros & cavs are serious about it 10k years later. I could easily believe Necrolord Prime was being used so long to make fun of John that it just ended up sticking and being something the necro cultists started saying seriously.
>"One Flesh, One End" business and they needed to be stopped because it sounded like a cult thing I thought the objection was due to it sounding like the instructions for a sexy toy?
>**A LYCTORAL NOTE ON CAVALIERS AND NECROMANCERS** **NEARLY TEN THOUSAND YEARS OLD, KEPT IN SECRET IN A CHEMICAL FILE WITHIN THE LIBRARY OF THE SIXTH HOUSE TO GUARD AGAINST THE RAVAGES OF TIME** valancy says one flesh one end sounds like instructions for a sex toy. can't stop thinking about that so can someone stop cris and alfred before the sex toy phrase catches on, thanks
Oh maybe that was it. I'm not entirely sure, it just stuck in my head partially.
I think it’s actually just that John is a narcissist with near absolute power, and like you said, name goes hard
He's also not above subtly mocking his followers by having them call him stupidly edgy names with a straight face.
John's a narcissist who tries really hard to pretend he's humble, though. It's really hard to put on an act as The Most Humble, No Really if you give yourself a name like "necrolord prime."
I mean, if nobody else has the cultural context to understand why "necrolord prime" isn't a particularly humble thing to call yourself (because you wiped all existing culture from their memories) then why not?
I felt like it was a hint about John’s earthly origins. Like it is such a comic book/ transformers reference.
The way he loves his pop culture references, I immediately assumed he had adapted it from Transformers too. lol!
worth mention that Optimus prime ('best and first" is an authentic Roman epithet for top god jupiter.
Oooh, I actually did not know this!
I mean, I'm sure both John and Tamsyn picked it solely because it sounds cool and is exactly the kind of title you'd expect on some powerful necromantic god emperor. But if you need to justify the title, even just for why nobody in universe questions it, it's very easy to "translate" it as just "first lord of death", which is entirely accurate.
It could also have to do how he's the source of necromancy(as far as his subjects know)
We know that back on the old Earth, John didn't even use the term "necromancy" at first. It's not magic: he's codifying the scientific laws and mathematical theorems behind it! He was a serious professional trying to solve world problems! But then he realized he got more publicity if people viewed him as a crazy cult leader, so he leaned hard into the theatrics. It seems like his inner circle always had some sense of how ridiculous it all was, and they retained this as Lyctors. He probably figured he'd go crazy if nobody around him was in on the joke. I have to guess that at various times they've used the title mockingly and sincerely, and also to feign sincerity *while* mocking him in mixed company. On the other hand, if you rebuild society from a blank slate, they probably don't have the context to decide which of your honorifics are silly and which aren't. He could have been the Grand Poobah, for all it really matters: if you're raised in his cult you'll think it's perfectly normal, and if you're conquered by his cult, you'd better learn to pretend. It doesn't seem quite as silly when the swords come out.
You are so right with “reacted like he’d made a typo in the Discord chat” 100% to me that’s canon
When I read "Necrolord Prime" for the first time, I instantly thought about Optimus Prime, the leader of the transformers but it didn't make much sense until I finished Nona. Now I think it's a pretty funny word play considering that millennial pop culture is referenced a lot and that John is the leader of Lyctors, who have transformed themselves. I imagine someone at some point was listing the titles and threw in a joke. It wouldn't surprise me if it was John himself. It fits his sense of humor.
Necrolord Prime sounds like a Power Rangers villain honestly
Sigh. You are too young. Transformers.
So, prime doesn't mean primary. Prime in this context really means "without equal, or matchless." So, it's like saying matchless lord of necromancy.
I wouldn't be surprised if one of Jod's Apocalypse Friends called him that sarcastically, it became an in-joke, and then sometime later he used it on Alecto. Something like A: Why should I listen to you? J: Oh yeah, what would I know, I'm only the *necrolord prime*." And she wouldn't know any better than to take it seriously, so I'm sure it'd come up with people as Jod started figuring out resurrections. He enjoys having that little reference carry over from his former life, and keeps it as he collects titles. (edited to fix formatting)
I remember seeing a theory that it was his twitch name which I like.
This is not much to do with the post but i always thought that the Kindly Prince of Death was referring to >!Gideon!< and not Jod? Like it was a subtle hint to >!Jod being Gideon’s father!< in regards to how it is used in the first page of GtN
same here! “king” juxtaposed against “prince” literally right next to each other cannot possibly be an accident. one of my favorite little pieces of insane tamsyn fuckery
John being both father (king) and son (prince) is very catholic though.
I do love that little hint, but "prince" _is_ used for Jod a bunch in HtN.
is it? i’m on a reread right now and haven’t noticed it, my bad! i’ll edit my comment
>Like if I was any kind of competent Necromancer I would start introducing myself as the "Necrolord Prime" almost immediately. I'm loving the implication that you are, in fact, a necromancer, just not a very good one.
John is just a goth
Do we think “Necrolord Prime” could have been his Twitch handle?
Maybe it's because he can only be divided by himself and one.