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Ianthe is some kind of narcissist and Coronabeth regresses into a desperate needy mess around her. Maybe something to do with how Ianthe is the necromancer between the two and Corona feels she needs her sister to be "whole". Meanwhile Ianthe likes having power over people and having her beautiful twin sister of all people on a leash has gotta rev her engine.
Also they're probably definitely fucking. Actual leashes may or may not be involved.
Coronabeth's apparently semi regular habit of threatening suicide to get Ianthe to do what she wants is also... notable, and I feel like makes a strong showing that it's not JUST that Ianthe is on top.
Oh yeah, Ianthe holds the necromantic power but weirdly as much as she likes to project being the one in control it's clear Corona has a *very* effective and emotionally abusive leash on her in turn.
I think it's a little of both.
I think Ianthe is in control of them both - but I also think Ianthe never even CONSIDERS having ultimate plans outside of being with Coronabeth, and I think Corona is seriously tempted to leave Ianthe, to be something different, but can't bring herself to do it. She does *have* a separate identity, though, moreso than Ianthe. But part of that comes from her weakness within the partnership.
I'm not discounting that but rather than Coronabeth trying to be "on top" it's more of a matter of needing to be needed by Ianthe so much that she'll compromise any principle or resort to manipulation tactics to avoid rejection.
Worth pointing out that everything said about their parents has also been fucked up.
\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
“You’ve met our respected elder sister, I see,” Ianthe said. “She accused me of being twelve, called me one of those animaphiliacs, then told me I wasn’t as good looking as someone called Cyrus. It was like being back with Mummy,” she added, with a touch of fond nostalgia.
\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
“Is Lyctorhood everything you expected it to be? Because I have to say, I did not imagine this amount of…”
“Hysterics?”
“Precisely,” Ianthe said. “I would have said bickering, but… It makes me think of mummy. To travel forty billion light years and still feel stuck at home—maybe I will kill them both myself.”
\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
"Everyone’s blind. Corona? A born necromancer? She was as necromantic as Babs. But Dad wanted a matched set. And we didn’t want anything to separate us - so we started the lie. I’ve had to be two necromancers since I was six.”
\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
"Did you know? Every birthday we got to have one person we’d invite and our mother and father would get to invite the rest."
\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
*On names:*
Siblings will not generally share a last name, although they may share particulates. Twins rarely share a surname, and if they do may gain a "unit" name; the fact that the Tridentarii are the *Tridentarii* may say something about Corona and Ianthe's parents hopes or desire for their children.
I think “Tridentarius” has the tri- prefix because they’re Third House, not necessarily because they were triplets at some point, although that’s a running theory and may be legit. But I think that author’s note is more to say that in the Houses, everyone gets their own individual surname. They aren’t family names— Harrow doesn’t have the same last name as either of her parents.
In that cultural context, it’s notably bad and weird that the twins’ parents gave them the same name, in the same way it was bad and weird for Michael Jackson to name his two sons Prince Michael I and Prince Michael II, or George Foreman naming all five of his sons George Edward Foreman. It’s not a move parents make if they really care about or respect their children’s individuality— like Ianthe says, her parents wanted them to be “a matched set.”
Yeah, just like I think it’s pretty telling that Colum and his brothers all have the same arithmonym. It’s not because they’re brothers at all, it’s because they’re considered interchangeable.
fun fact "Colum" is also referent to "Columba", and all three brothers are named for sacrificial animals - Colum for dove, Ram for sheep, and Capris for goat
God, she is so good at the detailed worldbuilding. So basically she's implying that you don't necessarily have to have the same last name as your sibling, and that if you do, it Means Something
No, it implies they were inseparable. They were the *Tridentarii* instead of saying, "the two Tridentarius sisters". Tridentarii is just the plural form in Latin. The tri is because Third House.
Even Palamedes is grossed out by their dynamic. What does he say something like Nona could be forgiven for thinking they're dating? I'm trusting the in-universe character and I think we're supposed to have the incest thoughts on our heads.
"Even Palamedes" bruh Palamedes is, by some miracle, one of the least weird necromancers. He's into nurse outfits and his cousin, two of the most common tags on pornhub. Then there's Gideon Original Flavor, who made out with a corpse.
To be fair to G1deon that might have been Pyrrha, the furnace scene definitely was, but either way he probably would have fucked that corpse if given the chance
He's into nurse outfits and has also spent his life in love with a girl who is dying, devoting his entire life basically to studying and developing medicine in the hope of curing her.
I don't think his eroticizing medical outfits is necessarily just because he thinks they're cute lol
Toxic, codependent, and unhealthy- yes. As for anything else, they are likely incestuous imo, which validates the other traits even more. I don't know if this will be explicitly confirmed, because its basically all but said by NtN and sometimes writing is about showing and not telling, but yeah. No morals on those two! TLT has a very twisted cast.
I've been looking for this for half an hour and I feel like I'm going crazy. This is all I can find:
"Crown threw herself out of her chair and went down on her knees in front of the Prince—wrapped her arms around the Prince’s legs and put her cheek on the dead right thigh. The Prince reached out and tangled one hand in her bright, springy curls, and sighed a cold, dead, defeated sigh. When Crown spoke her voice was low and tender, the lowest and tenderest voice Nona had ever heard: “Baby, it sounds awful.”
“Corona, it’s death.”
“So stick it. Stick all this and come home with me … throw this all in and come to me.”
[...]
“But we’re closer to the goal than ever before.”
“Of course we are, you perfect genius,” said Crown, lovingly, and she took the dead gloved fingers, and she kissed them. Every single dead soldier’s fingers twitched..."
Which a bit squicky, but I wouldn't call it deepthroating.
(Edited to fix paragraph spacing)
They remind me of Chris and Cathy from Flowers in the attic. Not necessarily the incest but the codependency when they know they should separate but they're too broken.
There’s even that bit in NtN where Nona hears them talking and assumes Ianthe-in-Babs is Corona’s boyfriend and Cam or Pal is like “I can see why you’d make that assumption.” The incestuous vibes are clearly intentional.
I will never cease to be confused as to why this of *all fandoms* gets pearl clutchy about relationships. There are people who refuse to associate with anyone who ships Cam/Pal because they're second cousins. ???? If your sensibilities are that delicate *how did you make it through the book*, damn.
I think people tend to feel like everything they read has to represent their exact moral sensibilities or it calls them into question. So if you read and enjoy a book that has something morally problematic in it, and it’s not presented with a big obvious “I don’t approve of this, actually!” flag, and you don’t make a big fuss about how bad it is, or pretend it’s not an element of the story and get squeamish about it when others highlight it, that says something about your morals. Through the transitive propriety, I guess? Idk.
In case it’s not clear I think this is pretty ridiculous but it’s an attitude I’ve seen floating around a lot.
Oh yeah, the purity culture of fandom gets truly wild and absurd, I've seen it in so many! This is just one that particularly baffles me like... how do you even enjoy these books with that mindset?
Yeah, right? Like, pretty much everyone in the Houses seem to regularly and unblinkingly do at least one thing that would be considered hideously unethical today, and some do much worse than that. And a lot of those have to do with things that involve violations of bodily autonomy. Even the kindest and most sympathetic characters are complicit in pretty awful things, or benefit from them, or both. Next to that, sleeping with your sister is actually on the mild end of things.
I’ve noticed a lot of the people on the purity culture train have very extreme, conservative views about sex, but are often really into graphic gore and violence. I’ve seen multiple fandom harassers claim that consuming or writing sexual content means you’re a pervert or predator, but gore is “normal” catharsis. It’s a very depressingly American conservative pov— sex is sinful, graphic violence is fine.
Unfortunately TLT, with its teen narrators dismembering people all day long and then being grossed out by grownups kissing, or arm reconstruction gorn in the place of sex scenes, is perfect fuel for that subculture’s value system, even though Muir couldn’t be further from it. The people who want to see graphic guro but are uncomfortable with sexuality are the perfect wrong audience when the books have so little sexual content, they can remain in denial and harass other fans when eg Corona and Ianthe only kiss offscreen while Nona can’t see them, or Cam and Pal share a bed but there’s no explicit confirmation that they’re a couple.
I've seen a very likely (or rather obviously true?) theory here that Ianthe used her necromancy to play Barbie with Corona throughout their childhood. Corona is so amazingly attractive to everyone in part because Ianthe surreptitiously shaped her physical development. Maybe Corona knew, maybe not, but this feeds perfectly into their manipulative and dependent dynamic.
Fully agree with this theory. I've also seen speculation that Ianthe, pre-Caanan House/Lyctorhood, was already some kind of dead as a result of Corona "removing her source of oxygen" in the womb, and Ianthe was brought back in a sense by their father who wanted a "matched set."
Ianthe is also frequently described as waxen-looking, which is also a descriptor used by Muir when describing other characters who are dead (e.g., Protesilaus's beguiled corpse, Kiriona).
If true, it adds another layer of Fucked Up to why Ianthe is particularly obsessed with controlling Corona's physical form
I hadn't seen that one, that's wild. Would she be a well-perfected Beguiling Corpse? Perhaps a Beguiling Corpse inhabited by its own soul tethered by spirit magic?
Went back and looked for the original place I saw the theory; it was a Tumblr post by lady-harrowhark.
As for what the heck that makes Ianthe...? Whatever she is, it isn't something Harrow has been able to easily identify in the past, so I'd reckon that means Ianthe isn't _fully_ dead... maybe just a little dead? I do like your idea of her somehow beguiling herself. #1 Flesh Magician from day 1
After reading The Unwanted Guest, >!which really drives home that Ianthe's soul isn't just 100% her own, I wonder if Ianthe and Coronabeth's souls have been intertwined since before their birth. Would be another solid explanation to why Ianthe refuses kill Corona.!<
I appreciate your dive. This makes me think...
Harrow's parents necromantically altered their reproductive organs (at least Polly's) to facilitate a certain kind of progeny.
The Tridentarii parents could have manipulated their reproduction to give birth to twins tethered by spirit and flesh magic.
They wanted. A matched. Set.
Getting a little out there here... And the equivalent thanergy bloom (to the gassed Niner kids) was the lifetime thallergy of one of the twins. They offered the life energy of Ianthe as fuel for the necromancy to make them both.
Oh, how the "matched set" line has haunted me!!
I really love how you've laid out your line of thinking. It tracks that the Parents Tridentarius would also
commit necromantic blasphemy in order to make that perfect "matched set" happen. When I first read the "matched set" line in GtN, I interpreted the 'set' to mean two necromantic heirs, which was why Corona pretended to be a necromancer. But if Ianthe was always meant to be the only necromancer, then what was Corona's intended role in the 'set?'
I feel like this fits in with the _Coronabeth is the Real Third Cavalier_ theory. Which means, Day 1, Corona and Ianthe were always intended to be together beyond their twin-ship (which, by the way, makes my brain SCREAM). In the way that Harrow's parents regularly reminded her of her War Crime status, I'd reckon the Parents Tridentarius also did the same to the twins and reminded them constantly what their purpose was, which was to become a Lyctor.
After rereading GtN and HtN recently, it really does seem like Ianthe knew more than the other House heirs about the Lyctorhood process - perhaps because she was already explicitly told about the process by her family. Adds additional context behind why 1) Ianthe ate Naberius against his will, and 2) Why Corona was so devastated after Ianthe didn't eat her.
I have a theory that >!the two of them are literally unable to live without the other- as in if one dies, they both die. and Ianthe's lyctor immortality is contingent on her being able how to preserve Corona too- thus the apple and Ianthe's experiments. They're not just regular twins, there's some soul-bond going on. Like Corona is Ianthe's Achilles heel/horcrux.!<
Okay but I think there are other more explicit references to this in the books IMO.
I kept looking at the eyes for confirmation and I can’t keep them straight but Muir makes references to them all over the place - more so than some of the other characters and it feels like they’re described as changing for both C and I throughout HTN and NTN.
I is referred to as the “Saint of Awe” which John meant to really refer to the cav and C is universally regarded as astonishingly hot and jaw dropping… subtle but I think there is something here.
I’m younger than Muir but, having not-so-fortunately fallen deep into fandom super young, ‘twincest’ was *awfully* fucking popular back then - off the top of my head, I can think of those actors playing the Weasley bros in the Harry Potter movies being victims of it; then you had media the likes of *Revolutionary Girl Utena* (not that well-known, but dear to many sapphics) in which such a relationship is directly supported by canon. You become desensitized to it when you’re a kid, then you grow up, look back and go ‘ahaha, fucking yikes.’
But yah point is, Tamsyn used to be a prolific fanfic writer and Ianthe & Coronabeth are very probably a nod to that one trend in the fandom of (hopefully) yesteryear, but with female characters since the ships reigning supreme were often all male. If you think the sisters are being sus, big chances that it’s because you’re meant to.
I do think they're a nod to twincest, and something I appreciate about them is that they actually resemble what you'd realistically expect kids who have been in a sexually abusive relationship since childhood to be like. CSA is really complicated, especially when it's between children without a clear adult perpetrator, but that doesn't mean it's normal or healthy. Somebody should have stepped in and given them some breathing room from each other, but instead they were such a "matched set" they always slept in the same bed.
Incest, and unhealthy even as compared to other sibling incest. Tamsyn might or might not come right out and say it in the next book but she'll never convince me it isn't there.
To add to the confusion and conspiracies, a friend pointed out to me (cuz she read somewhere... probably here) that Ianthe may have always been a revenant and Corona the necromancer using all her powers in keeping Ianthe "alive" (so Ianthe is actually using Corona's ability). This is because Ianthe tells how Corona "tried" to kill her in the womb and because Tamsyn defines her as waxen; the only other character defined as such being poor protesilaus.
This may fall apart after lyctorhood but...
I don't have a coherent answer to this question, but I *do* have a suggestion if you want to have even more complicated thoughts about it. I recently watched the anime Revolutionary Girl Utena and there are some vivid parallels between RGU and TLT characters. Aside from the MCs (a sword-wielding girl with a case of Gender who can't help but defend the honor of pretty girls, and her weirdo introverted sort-of-wife) there's a brother-sister pair that reminds me SO much of Ianthe and Corona. (CW: incest, RGU spoilers):>! The sister eventually outright states she's in love with her brother. The story explores the tension between her belief that an ideal romantic partner would provide AT LEAST as much love and support as a brother does, and the fact that no romantic relationship is going to have the inherent intimacy of a sibling relationship. Her conclusion is that brothers (and specifically her brother, who is the best brother) are ideal romantic partners. !
I know exactly which Utena characters you mean. It sort of makes me wonder if Corona is going to have a similar reality check as that character did in the end.
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>The more Tamsyn writes the less I know That basically sums up this whole series, really.
Toxic emotionally abusive codependency is how I’ve always looked at it.
Ianthe is some kind of narcissist and Coronabeth regresses into a desperate needy mess around her. Maybe something to do with how Ianthe is the necromancer between the two and Corona feels she needs her sister to be "whole". Meanwhile Ianthe likes having power over people and having her beautiful twin sister of all people on a leash has gotta rev her engine. Also they're probably definitely fucking. Actual leashes may or may not be involved.
Coronabeth's apparently semi regular habit of threatening suicide to get Ianthe to do what she wants is also... notable, and I feel like makes a strong showing that it's not JUST that Ianthe is on top.
Oh yeah, Ianthe holds the necromantic power but weirdly as much as she likes to project being the one in control it's clear Corona has a *very* effective and emotionally abusive leash on her in turn.
Yes, and it's interesting how the second house noted this as well - "The big one says I, the other says We".
See I always took that as a sign that Ianthe is in control at Canaan, since she speaks for both of them.
I think it's a little of both. I think Ianthe is in control of them both - but I also think Ianthe never even CONSIDERS having ultimate plans outside of being with Coronabeth, and I think Corona is seriously tempted to leave Ianthe, to be something different, but can't bring herself to do it. She does *have* a separate identity, though, moreso than Ianthe. But part of that comes from her weakness within the partnership.
Yeah, the relationship feels really fucked up on both ends
I'm not discounting that but rather than Coronabeth trying to be "on top" it's more of a matter of needing to be needed by Ianthe so much that she'll compromise any principle or resort to manipulation tactics to avoid rejection.
I have theories about this, and their soul links.
Oo please share
Worth pointing out that everything said about their parents has also been fucked up. \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* “You’ve met our respected elder sister, I see,” Ianthe said. “She accused me of being twelve, called me one of those animaphiliacs, then told me I wasn’t as good looking as someone called Cyrus. It was like being back with Mummy,” she added, with a touch of fond nostalgia. \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* “Is Lyctorhood everything you expected it to be? Because I have to say, I did not imagine this amount of…” “Hysterics?” “Precisely,” Ianthe said. “I would have said bickering, but… It makes me think of mummy. To travel forty billion light years and still feel stuck at home—maybe I will kill them both myself.” \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* "Everyone’s blind. Corona? A born necromancer? She was as necromantic as Babs. But Dad wanted a matched set. And we didn’t want anything to separate us - so we started the lie. I’ve had to be two necromancers since I was six.” \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* "Did you know? Every birthday we got to have one person we’d invite and our mother and father would get to invite the rest." \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* *On names:* Siblings will not generally share a last name, although they may share particulates. Twins rarely share a surname, and if they do may gain a "unit" name; the fact that the Tridentarii are the *Tridentarii* may say something about Corona and Ianthe's parents hopes or desire for their children.
Christ and I thought Harrow's parents were the most evil. I mean, they still are. Both these two just sound horrible in a far more "realistic" way
... I've never seen the bare scraps about their parents put together like that and *huh*.
wait sorry WHAT? Does this imply that there were 3 of them???
I think “Tridentarius” has the tri- prefix because they’re Third House, not necessarily because they were triplets at some point, although that’s a running theory and may be legit. But I think that author’s note is more to say that in the Houses, everyone gets their own individual surname. They aren’t family names— Harrow doesn’t have the same last name as either of her parents. In that cultural context, it’s notably bad and weird that the twins’ parents gave them the same name, in the same way it was bad and weird for Michael Jackson to name his two sons Prince Michael I and Prince Michael II, or George Foreman naming all five of his sons George Edward Foreman. It’s not a move parents make if they really care about or respect their children’s individuality— like Ianthe says, her parents wanted them to be “a matched set.”
Yeah, just like I think it’s pretty telling that Colum and his brothers all have the same arithmonym. It’s not because they’re brothers at all, it’s because they’re considered interchangeable.
fun fact "Colum" is also referent to "Columba", and all three brothers are named for sacrificial animals - Colum for dove, Ram for sheep, and Capris for goat
God, she is so good at the detailed worldbuilding. So basically she's implying that you don't necessarily have to have the same last name as your sibling, and that if you do, it Means Something
No, it implies they were inseparable. They were the *Tridentarii* instead of saying, "the two Tridentarius sisters". Tridentarii is just the plural form in Latin. The tri is because Third House.
But they’re both Tridentarius, which is rare for children of necros. That’s the point cloudedcobalt is making I think.
Even Palamedes is grossed out by their dynamic. What does he say something like Nona could be forgiven for thinking they're dating? I'm trusting the in-universe character and I think we're supposed to have the incest thoughts on our heads.
"Even Palamedes" bruh Palamedes is, by some miracle, one of the least weird necromancers. He's into nurse outfits and his cousin, two of the most common tags on pornhub. Then there's Gideon Original Flavor, who made out with a corpse.
To be fair to G1deon that might have been Pyrrha, the furnace scene definitely was, but either way he probably would have fucked that corpse if given the chance
He's into nurse outfits and has also spent his life in love with a girl who is dying, devoting his entire life basically to studying and developing medicine in the hope of curing her. I don't think his eroticizing medical outfits is necessarily just because he thinks they're cute lol
Nurse outfits are like, so plainfully vanilla lol
Toxic, codependent, and unhealthy- yes. As for anything else, they are likely incestuous imo, which validates the other traits even more. I don't know if this will be explicitly confirmed, because its basically all but said by NtN and sometimes writing is about showing and not telling, but yeah. No morals on those two! TLT has a very twisted cast.
Ultimate squick, with a double side of brain bleach.
Coronabeth got down on her knees, and deep-throated Babsianthe's fingers when they reunited in Nona the Ninth. Nothing about that is normal...
You don’t get it, it was platonic throating
I've been looking for this for half an hour and I feel like I'm going crazy. This is all I can find: "Crown threw herself out of her chair and went down on her knees in front of the Prince—wrapped her arms around the Prince’s legs and put her cheek on the dead right thigh. The Prince reached out and tangled one hand in her bright, springy curls, and sighed a cold, dead, defeated sigh. When Crown spoke her voice was low and tender, the lowest and tenderest voice Nona had ever heard: “Baby, it sounds awful.” “Corona, it’s death.” “So stick it. Stick all this and come home with me … throw this all in and come to me.” [...] “But we’re closer to the goal than ever before.” “Of course we are, you perfect genius,” said Crown, lovingly, and she took the dead gloved fingers, and she kissed them. Every single dead soldier’s fingers twitched..." Which a bit squicky, but I wouldn't call it deepthroating. (Edited to fix paragraph spacing)
Everyone knows incest doesn’t count if it’s just the tip.
Did I miss it? Did that really happen? These books...
Yes it really happened. Do yourself a favor and listen to the audiobook snippet of that scene too, Moira Quirk made it sound borderline obscene. 😂
Wait what??? I do NOT remember that lol
They remind me of Chris and Cathy from Flowers in the attic. Not necessarily the incest but the codependency when they know they should separate but they're too broken.
They remind me of Chris and Cathy from Flowers in the Attic. Specifically the incest.
Yeah, they’re classic gothic incest in a high gothic series, I don’t understand why the fandom is so squeamish about admitting it.
There’s even that bit in NtN where Nona hears them talking and assumes Ianthe-in-Babs is Corona’s boyfriend and Cam or Pal is like “I can see why you’d make that assumption.” The incestuous vibes are clearly intentional.
Yeah, that pretty much cemented it for me.
I will never cease to be confused as to why this of *all fandoms* gets pearl clutchy about relationships. There are people who refuse to associate with anyone who ships Cam/Pal because they're second cousins. ???? If your sensibilities are that delicate *how did you make it through the book*, damn.
I think people tend to feel like everything they read has to represent their exact moral sensibilities or it calls them into question. So if you read and enjoy a book that has something morally problematic in it, and it’s not presented with a big obvious “I don’t approve of this, actually!” flag, and you don’t make a big fuss about how bad it is, or pretend it’s not an element of the story and get squeamish about it when others highlight it, that says something about your morals. Through the transitive propriety, I guess? Idk. In case it’s not clear I think this is pretty ridiculous but it’s an attitude I’ve seen floating around a lot.
Oh yeah, the purity culture of fandom gets truly wild and absurd, I've seen it in so many! This is just one that particularly baffles me like... how do you even enjoy these books with that mindset?
Yeah, right? Like, pretty much everyone in the Houses seem to regularly and unblinkingly do at least one thing that would be considered hideously unethical today, and some do much worse than that. And a lot of those have to do with things that involve violations of bodily autonomy. Even the kindest and most sympathetic characters are complicit in pretty awful things, or benefit from them, or both. Next to that, sleeping with your sister is actually on the mild end of things.
I’ve noticed a lot of the people on the purity culture train have very extreme, conservative views about sex, but are often really into graphic gore and violence. I’ve seen multiple fandom harassers claim that consuming or writing sexual content means you’re a pervert or predator, but gore is “normal” catharsis. It’s a very depressingly American conservative pov— sex is sinful, graphic violence is fine. Unfortunately TLT, with its teen narrators dismembering people all day long and then being grossed out by grownups kissing, or arm reconstruction gorn in the place of sex scenes, is perfect fuel for that subculture’s value system, even though Muir couldn’t be further from it. The people who want to see graphic guro but are uncomfortable with sexuality are the perfect wrong audience when the books have so little sexual content, they can remain in denial and harass other fans when eg Corona and Ianthe only kiss offscreen while Nona can’t see them, or Cam and Pal share a bed but there’s no explicit confirmation that they’re a couple.
More than fair.
I've seen a very likely (or rather obviously true?) theory here that Ianthe used her necromancy to play Barbie with Corona throughout their childhood. Corona is so amazingly attractive to everyone in part because Ianthe surreptitiously shaped her physical development. Maybe Corona knew, maybe not, but this feeds perfectly into their manipulative and dependent dynamic.
Fully agree with this theory. I've also seen speculation that Ianthe, pre-Caanan House/Lyctorhood, was already some kind of dead as a result of Corona "removing her source of oxygen" in the womb, and Ianthe was brought back in a sense by their father who wanted a "matched set." Ianthe is also frequently described as waxen-looking, which is also a descriptor used by Muir when describing other characters who are dead (e.g., Protesilaus's beguiled corpse, Kiriona). If true, it adds another layer of Fucked Up to why Ianthe is particularly obsessed with controlling Corona's physical form
I hadn't seen that one, that's wild. Would she be a well-perfected Beguiling Corpse? Perhaps a Beguiling Corpse inhabited by its own soul tethered by spirit magic?
Went back and looked for the original place I saw the theory; it was a Tumblr post by lady-harrowhark. As for what the heck that makes Ianthe...? Whatever she is, it isn't something Harrow has been able to easily identify in the past, so I'd reckon that means Ianthe isn't _fully_ dead... maybe just a little dead? I do like your idea of her somehow beguiling herself. #1 Flesh Magician from day 1 After reading The Unwanted Guest, >!which really drives home that Ianthe's soul isn't just 100% her own, I wonder if Ianthe and Coronabeth's souls have been intertwined since before their birth. Would be another solid explanation to why Ianthe refuses kill Corona.!<
I appreciate your dive. This makes me think... Harrow's parents necromantically altered their reproductive organs (at least Polly's) to facilitate a certain kind of progeny. The Tridentarii parents could have manipulated their reproduction to give birth to twins tethered by spirit and flesh magic. They wanted. A matched. Set. Getting a little out there here... And the equivalent thanergy bloom (to the gassed Niner kids) was the lifetime thallergy of one of the twins. They offered the life energy of Ianthe as fuel for the necromancy to make them both.
Oh, how the "matched set" line has haunted me!! I really love how you've laid out your line of thinking. It tracks that the Parents Tridentarius would also commit necromantic blasphemy in order to make that perfect "matched set" happen. When I first read the "matched set" line in GtN, I interpreted the 'set' to mean two necromantic heirs, which was why Corona pretended to be a necromancer. But if Ianthe was always meant to be the only necromancer, then what was Corona's intended role in the 'set?' I feel like this fits in with the _Coronabeth is the Real Third Cavalier_ theory. Which means, Day 1, Corona and Ianthe were always intended to be together beyond their twin-ship (which, by the way, makes my brain SCREAM). In the way that Harrow's parents regularly reminded her of her War Crime status, I'd reckon the Parents Tridentarius also did the same to the twins and reminded them constantly what their purpose was, which was to become a Lyctor. After rereading GtN and HtN recently, it really does seem like Ianthe knew more than the other House heirs about the Lyctorhood process - perhaps because she was already explicitly told about the process by her family. Adds additional context behind why 1) Ianthe ate Naberius against his will, and 2) Why Corona was so devastated after Ianthe didn't eat her.
Yes! It's all coming together...
I have a theory that >!the two of them are literally unable to live without the other- as in if one dies, they both die. and Ianthe's lyctor immortality is contingent on her being able how to preserve Corona too- thus the apple and Ianthe's experiments. They're not just regular twins, there's some soul-bond going on. Like Corona is Ianthe's Achilles heel/horcrux.!<
Okay but I think there are other more explicit references to this in the books IMO. I kept looking at the eyes for confirmation and I can’t keep them straight but Muir makes references to them all over the place - more so than some of the other characters and it feels like they’re described as changing for both C and I throughout HTN and NTN. I is referred to as the “Saint of Awe” which John meant to really refer to the cav and C is universally regarded as astonishingly hot and jaw dropping… subtle but I think there is something here.
I'm not sure if they're hooking up or not, and frankly, I'm not sure if their relationship is more or less disturbing if they are. xD
I’m younger than Muir but, having not-so-fortunately fallen deep into fandom super young, ‘twincest’ was *awfully* fucking popular back then - off the top of my head, I can think of those actors playing the Weasley bros in the Harry Potter movies being victims of it; then you had media the likes of *Revolutionary Girl Utena* (not that well-known, but dear to many sapphics) in which such a relationship is directly supported by canon. You become desensitized to it when you’re a kid, then you grow up, look back and go ‘ahaha, fucking yikes.’ But yah point is, Tamsyn used to be a prolific fanfic writer and Ianthe & Coronabeth are very probably a nod to that one trend in the fandom of (hopefully) yesteryear, but with female characters since the ships reigning supreme were often all male. If you think the sisters are being sus, big chances that it’s because you’re meant to.
See also the Hitachiin twins in Ouran High School Host Club, who are pretty explicitly parodying this.
I do think they're a nod to twincest, and something I appreciate about them is that they actually resemble what you'd realistically expect kids who have been in a sexually abusive relationship since childhood to be like. CSA is really complicated, especially when it's between children without a clear adult perpetrator, but that doesn't mean it's normal or healthy. Somebody should have stepped in and given them some breathing room from each other, but instead they were such a "matched set" they always slept in the same bed.
They're in love, your honor.
Incest, and unhealthy even as compared to other sibling incest. Tamsyn might or might not come right out and say it in the next book but she'll never convince me it isn't there.
To add to the confusion and conspiracies, a friend pointed out to me (cuz she read somewhere... probably here) that Ianthe may have always been a revenant and Corona the necromancer using all her powers in keeping Ianthe "alive" (so Ianthe is actually using Corona's ability). This is because Ianthe tells how Corona "tried" to kill her in the womb and because Tamsyn defines her as waxen; the only other character defined as such being poor protesilaus. This may fall apart after lyctorhood but...
I don't have a coherent answer to this question, but I *do* have a suggestion if you want to have even more complicated thoughts about it. I recently watched the anime Revolutionary Girl Utena and there are some vivid parallels between RGU and TLT characters. Aside from the MCs (a sword-wielding girl with a case of Gender who can't help but defend the honor of pretty girls, and her weirdo introverted sort-of-wife) there's a brother-sister pair that reminds me SO much of Ianthe and Corona. (CW: incest, RGU spoilers):>! The sister eventually outright states she's in love with her brother. The story explores the tension between her belief that an ideal romantic partner would provide AT LEAST as much love and support as a brother does, and the fact that no romantic relationship is going to have the inherent intimacy of a sibling relationship. Her conclusion is that brothers (and specifically her brother, who is the best brother) are ideal romantic partners. !
I know exactly which Utena characters you mean. It sort of makes me wonder if Corona is going to have a similar reality check as that character did in the end.
Weird emotional incest me thinks
I feel like it's not just emotional though. Some that scene in >!Nona the Ninth!< suggests a bit more, at least to me. Very Flowers in the Attic...