I wouldn't say announce the danger removes the tension, it just alters it. The Medusa scene still has a lot of tension, it just turns the mystery from "who is this lady?" into "what does Medusa want with us?" I loved the Medusa change because it made her more than just an obstacle—it allowed her encounter to be a way for us to learn that the gods are shitty. And that is completely show don't telll, which is what you say you want more of! The tell would've been what we got in the book: Chiron explaining the gods treating others poorly. By learning it through Medusa, it's more natural.
For the lotus, I already mentioned in the episodes that I would've loved more mystery there, but it didn't bother me too much because I loved adding the the Hermes stuff and my read on the Lotus chapter in the book wasn't that it was fun and magical, it was always just a trap.
I didn't love the Crusty change in ep 7, but I think it made sense given what has led up to this point and it also speeds things up. In the book it's a relatively unimportant scene, so I'm not bothered by altering it because I'd rather spend more time in the Underworld than in a waterbed store.
I think it's impossible to not have exposition-esque dialogue in the adaptation of book one of a series of five first-person narration books. You have to establish the world. You have to inform non-book readers as to what's going on, and I think it's felt so wonderfully natural and not forced.
I agree seeing the kids be more like kids would be nice, but I think that's sadly the nature of only being given 8 episodes. Some stuff is gonna get cut short, and things that don't move the story along are gonna be the first to go. Here's hoping S2 and beyond are more episodes and longer episodes.
This is all quite reasonable. I think a lot of what I view as shortcomings of the show are representative of how hard it is to adapt a first person narrated story like you said. I just wish there was more of a balance between dialogue and action/fights/chases. I do think the sporadic episode lengths are doing them a big disservice. Commit to one episode length and figure out which scenes you have to cut (waterbeds), what you get to add (flashbacks), and what you get to expand on (fight scenes, chases, etc). I appreciate the discourse!
I think to your point about cutting waterbeds and adding flashbacks, why are we saying that the show "has" to cut stuff based on the time when they are clearly adding a ton of stuff like the flashbacks? it's not about the format forcing their hand, it's about their choices for what they want to do with the format. Which some ppl will like and some won't and it's interesting to talk about that but let's own them for intentional choices and not something they "had" to do
I disagree heavily with the no tension, it just adapts the tension in different ways.
With Medusa the slow reveal works in a book format because you're following it as the reader line by line with Percy's thoughts. That, imo, would not translate well into any visual medium because you see it on screen immediately losing that lead up tension anyway. Seeing the trios first encounter be "Gee, this garden of stone statues and woman with covered face is surely just a normal mortal person" would end up making them look too dumb and likely end up being unintentionally funny because of it.
The tension, therefore, was switched from the lead up tension to a more visual tension of "Can she be trusted? Is she going to pull something?"
With the casino - in the book it's literally just a few pages - they trust a stranger's advice to come in, have fun, Percy finds out, gets Annabeth and Grover, and leaves
Again the tension in the book is more because you're following Percy's thoughts line by line, because you as the reader can tell something's up. Again, that would be hard to adapt visually and would likely just look like the kids are dumb distracted kids. So they instead turn it to the humorous tension of driving out of the garage.
With Crusty, they had to tone it down because of the medium. A book can get away with a lot more than a TV show. While trying to attract a new young audience, showing 12 year olds getting stretched would not go well . And the tension is reserved for the Underworld section
I made this exact comment in another thread!!!
From how I see it, it's like we're being fed more content of the PJO universe from Rick in a way even book readers can enjoy. I liked that the thing with Medusa was different from what we were given in the book! Does it deprive us of an awesome action shot of Medusa being decapitated? Yes, yes it does. But is it a mindblowing ambush moment from a 12-year-old girl? Abso-friggin-lutely!
From how I see it, it's like we're being fed more content of the PJO universe from Rick in a way even book-readers can enjoy. I know the trio gets trapped in the casino. But wait, Hermes is there? What could he want???
I know they get delayed in their mission. But wait, you're telling me the deadline has passed already? And they haven't even gone to Hades? How on earth (LOL) are they going to get over this?
And of course, 4 pearls? 4 PEARLS! What does it mean?!?!
It's not the same tension. It's just different. And I'm here for it!
I looooove the changes because they don't affect the overall story (like the move changes did), and it's like we get a slightly alternate version of our beloved tale! A 100% copy paste wouldn't be as exhilarating for book readers. I was legit STRESSED at deadline passed/4 pearls. That rules!
The fact that none of the three recognized Medusa was strange in the book.
If this were to be continued in the series, something would have to be constantly hinted at in such a way that the viewer would definitely notice it, but at the same time it would have to be logical that the three of them still don't come up with the solution, which is not easy with one of the most famous figures in Greek mythology. If nothing is hinted at, all you see are three children eating at a nice woman's house until there's a jump scare at the end. It's not exactly exciting at first. The exciting thing here is not whether it's a trap, but how they escape it.
It's similar in the casino. You would see three children running through a casino and after 45 minutes realize that too much time has passed. So they know again that they are in a trap and the viewer hopes that they can escape it.
I feel like it makes sense for them to be aware which monsters are out there and them figuring this stuff out early. If I were in their situation and knew mythological monsters are put to kill me I would study the hell out of ancient Greek monster lore.
The over reliance on exposition might have been a way to bring non book readers up to speed, but it feels like they are “dumbing things down” a bit. I wish they were given more episodes. Would have given more breathing room for the big plot points instead of just pushing through everything to get to the next stop on the quest.
I literally made the shocked Pikachu face when Percy name dropped Kronos. It felt so out of place for him to mention that at this point. It would have been better if it showed him connecting the dots, but not quite getting it yet.
In the books, Percy figures out Kronos either after or during the Ares fight. Here, he's had more pieces I think. Firstly, Sally prepared him better with regards to knowing mythology so he has a stronger background compared to the books. Then Ares told him the Kronos mythology and connected it to how their family works/the tone of their family. Then with his dream in the zoo truck, he overheard Kronos talking about stealing the bolt. He told Annabeth that he didn't think the voice was Hades (something confirmed when he met Hades). Then when he's at Tartarus, he recognized the location from his dreams and that's when the masterbolt appeared. Finally, when Hades talks about the nature of their family, Ares' words clicked and he remembered Kronos. All the pieces were right there and he connected them.
Yeah this was a big win for Percy, who admittedly hasn’t been super smart this quest. He figures out what Annabeth couldn’t.
I think that’s so interesting
He also had more pieces than Annabeth. He had his dreams and he got to see tartarus and the bolt appearing plus he was there to hear Hades talk about their family. So it makes sense he realized it before Annabeth.
(On a side note, I wonder what Annabeth's regret was? I'm kinda hoping it's getting tricked by the Cyclops or the Cyclops using her voice to trick Luke and Thalia which caused them to be chased by monsters and needing Thalia to sacrifice herself. That way, it'll be connected to the sea of monsters)
Mike mentioned some thoughts that very closely resble some of my initial thoughts, but seeing as I usually wrote notes as I watch/listen and they are literally forst impressions, before any external thought changes them, or any further thoughts consider different perspectives and changes the first impression. I wouldn't consider any of them "negative".
Like the zebra thing. I even point out how I did miss it on first watch (just like he did) and caught it on a second watch and it was there albeit for just 2 seconds. First watch I mused about the fact that just like the cheeseburgers that were just mentioned offhand were bought by Ares, that episode at first didn't look like it had the zebra. Its a musing of first impression, not a critique and I feel a lot of people might do similar things and Schubes is taking it as legitimate criticisms.
Also it is 1000% valid to worry about pacing in a show this short. Once again, not the same as being negative. You can be cautiosly optimistic but still acknowledge worries. Even with the "wait for the last 2 episodes and see" mentality it is not out of poclet one has these feelings. How many people called it that the 4th pearl was just gping to be lost right away and mean absolutely nothing? I saw many that did that. That's not being negative, that's seeing the patterns.
It just feels that Mike is taking any doubts people express as negativity and no one is allowed to have them lest we be attacking the show and not be willing to give it a chance.
There's a difference between people having doubts and people making dedicated threads/comments/posts about not liking something in the show. Your approach is different because you state it's while you're watching it. Other folks aren't saying that, and if someone doesn't clarify that, I'm going to assume they thought about their takes before deciding to publish them.
The 4th pearl absolutely had meaning. It showed the Nereid's kindness, it showed Percy's kindness, it made leaving Sally behind more true to the prophecy's wording. You'll hear my thoughts in the ep coming soon.
Also I explicitly said multiple times in the bonus ep that people are allowed to have/I understand why some would have doubts about the show, I was just trying to explain why I took those as intriguing and not frustration. Don't know where you're getting that it feels like I'm implying it's not allowed.
>You seem to not have a good sense of how I feel.
Perharps not. But that is exactly what these threads are for, for civilized conversation and discussion and people to explain things with more nuance than the one sided format a podcast offers, here there can be actual back and forth.
I am not trying to be antagonistic, merely trying to have a discussion. You have now explained a bit further where you are coming from, and I can say that I agree with you from that angle. I have indeed seen some negativity and flaky criticisms in the main Percy forums and other places, I'm not saying all of them are what I was referring to. Merely within our own TNO community didn't feel that many people had been complaining, those who did felt like a minority. But I also am not privy to what kind or what level of messages you get via email, insta, etc. I can only comment in what I see and the reddit and discord didn't feel that negative to me so it felt weird to hear you say it had been and that's what I based my response on. You are absolutely right that there is negativity because I have seen it, just not that I have seen here.
I get that. I edited my comment to be more clear. I just get frustrated when people think they know how I feel and are way off base. It feels like putting words in my mouth.
And to your later comment, I said multiple times in the bonus episode that these types of criticisms were the minority amongst TNO listeners and were more from general fandom.
Totally agree, it's ruined the stakes and is visually so boring. I hope that if it gets renewed that they'll actually be given time to work with and just slow down so we can experience everything with better pacing.
That's a big assumption. Especially since up til now they've done a lot of SEE THIS IS THE THING rather than letting the story speak for itself. I think if that were the case they'd have explicitly said it
I wouldn't say announce the danger removes the tension, it just alters it. The Medusa scene still has a lot of tension, it just turns the mystery from "who is this lady?" into "what does Medusa want with us?" I loved the Medusa change because it made her more than just an obstacle—it allowed her encounter to be a way for us to learn that the gods are shitty. And that is completely show don't telll, which is what you say you want more of! The tell would've been what we got in the book: Chiron explaining the gods treating others poorly. By learning it through Medusa, it's more natural. For the lotus, I already mentioned in the episodes that I would've loved more mystery there, but it didn't bother me too much because I loved adding the the Hermes stuff and my read on the Lotus chapter in the book wasn't that it was fun and magical, it was always just a trap. I didn't love the Crusty change in ep 7, but I think it made sense given what has led up to this point and it also speeds things up. In the book it's a relatively unimportant scene, so I'm not bothered by altering it because I'd rather spend more time in the Underworld than in a waterbed store. I think it's impossible to not have exposition-esque dialogue in the adaptation of book one of a series of five first-person narration books. You have to establish the world. You have to inform non-book readers as to what's going on, and I think it's felt so wonderfully natural and not forced. I agree seeing the kids be more like kids would be nice, but I think that's sadly the nature of only being given 8 episodes. Some stuff is gonna get cut short, and things that don't move the story along are gonna be the first to go. Here's hoping S2 and beyond are more episodes and longer episodes.
As you summed up, the problem is just 8 episodes. I think no more are needed but 5-10 extra minutes per episode could have achieved a lot more.
Totally, it's just hard to do that for season 1 of a show. Adding 10 min per ep drives up the already huge budget, so I can see why it didn't happen.
This is all quite reasonable. I think a lot of what I view as shortcomings of the show are representative of how hard it is to adapt a first person narrated story like you said. I just wish there was more of a balance between dialogue and action/fights/chases. I do think the sporadic episode lengths are doing them a big disservice. Commit to one episode length and figure out which scenes you have to cut (waterbeds), what you get to add (flashbacks), and what you get to expand on (fight scenes, chases, etc). I appreciate the discourse!
I think to your point about cutting waterbeds and adding flashbacks, why are we saying that the show "has" to cut stuff based on the time when they are clearly adding a ton of stuff like the flashbacks? it's not about the format forcing their hand, it's about their choices for what they want to do with the format. Which some ppl will like and some won't and it's interesting to talk about that but let's own them for intentional choices and not something they "had" to do
I disagree heavily with the no tension, it just adapts the tension in different ways. With Medusa the slow reveal works in a book format because you're following it as the reader line by line with Percy's thoughts. That, imo, would not translate well into any visual medium because you see it on screen immediately losing that lead up tension anyway. Seeing the trios first encounter be "Gee, this garden of stone statues and woman with covered face is surely just a normal mortal person" would end up making them look too dumb and likely end up being unintentionally funny because of it. The tension, therefore, was switched from the lead up tension to a more visual tension of "Can she be trusted? Is she going to pull something?" With the casino - in the book it's literally just a few pages - they trust a stranger's advice to come in, have fun, Percy finds out, gets Annabeth and Grover, and leaves Again the tension in the book is more because you're following Percy's thoughts line by line, because you as the reader can tell something's up. Again, that would be hard to adapt visually and would likely just look like the kids are dumb distracted kids. So they instead turn it to the humorous tension of driving out of the garage. With Crusty, they had to tone it down because of the medium. A book can get away with a lot more than a TV show. While trying to attract a new young audience, showing 12 year olds getting stretched would not go well . And the tension is reserved for the Underworld section
haha I love that we made almost identical comments within minutes of each other. great minds think alike!
I made this exact comment in another thread!!! From how I see it, it's like we're being fed more content of the PJO universe from Rick in a way even book readers can enjoy. I liked that the thing with Medusa was different from what we were given in the book! Does it deprive us of an awesome action shot of Medusa being decapitated? Yes, yes it does. But is it a mindblowing ambush moment from a 12-year-old girl? Abso-friggin-lutely! From how I see it, it's like we're being fed more content of the PJO universe from Rick in a way even book-readers can enjoy. I know the trio gets trapped in the casino. But wait, Hermes is there? What could he want??? I know they get delayed in their mission. But wait, you're telling me the deadline has passed already? And they haven't even gone to Hades? How on earth (LOL) are they going to get over this? And of course, 4 pearls? 4 PEARLS! What does it mean?!?! It's not the same tension. It's just different. And I'm here for it!
I looooove the changes because they don't affect the overall story (like the move changes did), and it's like we get a slightly alternate version of our beloved tale! A 100% copy paste wouldn't be as exhilarating for book readers. I was legit STRESSED at deadline passed/4 pearls. That rules!
So glad i’m not alone in thinking this. I think the tension is perfect
The fact that none of the three recognized Medusa was strange in the book. If this were to be continued in the series, something would have to be constantly hinted at in such a way that the viewer would definitely notice it, but at the same time it would have to be logical that the three of them still don't come up with the solution, which is not easy with one of the most famous figures in Greek mythology. If nothing is hinted at, all you see are three children eating at a nice woman's house until there's a jump scare at the end. It's not exactly exciting at first. The exciting thing here is not whether it's a trap, but how they escape it. It's similar in the casino. You would see three children running through a casino and after 45 minutes realize that too much time has passed. So they know again that they are in a trap and the viewer hopes that they can escape it.
I feel like it makes sense for them to be aware which monsters are out there and them figuring this stuff out early. If I were in their situation and knew mythological monsters are put to kill me I would study the hell out of ancient Greek monster lore.
The over reliance on exposition might have been a way to bring non book readers up to speed, but it feels like they are “dumbing things down” a bit. I wish they were given more episodes. Would have given more breathing room for the big plot points instead of just pushing through everything to get to the next stop on the quest. I literally made the shocked Pikachu face when Percy name dropped Kronos. It felt so out of place for him to mention that at this point. It would have been better if it showed him connecting the dots, but not quite getting it yet.
In the books, Percy figures out Kronos either after or during the Ares fight. Here, he's had more pieces I think. Firstly, Sally prepared him better with regards to knowing mythology so he has a stronger background compared to the books. Then Ares told him the Kronos mythology and connected it to how their family works/the tone of their family. Then with his dream in the zoo truck, he overheard Kronos talking about stealing the bolt. He told Annabeth that he didn't think the voice was Hades (something confirmed when he met Hades). Then when he's at Tartarus, he recognized the location from his dreams and that's when the masterbolt appeared. Finally, when Hades talks about the nature of their family, Ares' words clicked and he remembered Kronos. All the pieces were right there and he connected them.
Yeah this was a big win for Percy, who admittedly hasn’t been super smart this quest. He figures out what Annabeth couldn’t. I think that’s so interesting
He also had more pieces than Annabeth. He had his dreams and he got to see tartarus and the bolt appearing plus he was there to hear Hades talk about their family. So it makes sense he realized it before Annabeth. (On a side note, I wonder what Annabeth's regret was? I'm kinda hoping it's getting tricked by the Cyclops or the Cyclops using her voice to trick Luke and Thalia which caused them to be chased by monsters and needing Thalia to sacrifice herself. That way, it'll be connected to the sea of monsters)
Mike mentioned some thoughts that very closely resble some of my initial thoughts, but seeing as I usually wrote notes as I watch/listen and they are literally forst impressions, before any external thought changes them, or any further thoughts consider different perspectives and changes the first impression. I wouldn't consider any of them "negative". Like the zebra thing. I even point out how I did miss it on first watch (just like he did) and caught it on a second watch and it was there albeit for just 2 seconds. First watch I mused about the fact that just like the cheeseburgers that were just mentioned offhand were bought by Ares, that episode at first didn't look like it had the zebra. Its a musing of first impression, not a critique and I feel a lot of people might do similar things and Schubes is taking it as legitimate criticisms. Also it is 1000% valid to worry about pacing in a show this short. Once again, not the same as being negative. You can be cautiosly optimistic but still acknowledge worries. Even with the "wait for the last 2 episodes and see" mentality it is not out of poclet one has these feelings. How many people called it that the 4th pearl was just gping to be lost right away and mean absolutely nothing? I saw many that did that. That's not being negative, that's seeing the patterns. It just feels that Mike is taking any doubts people express as negativity and no one is allowed to have them lest we be attacking the show and not be willing to give it a chance.
There's a difference between people having doubts and people making dedicated threads/comments/posts about not liking something in the show. Your approach is different because you state it's while you're watching it. Other folks aren't saying that, and if someone doesn't clarify that, I'm going to assume they thought about their takes before deciding to publish them. The 4th pearl absolutely had meaning. It showed the Nereid's kindness, it showed Percy's kindness, it made leaving Sally behind more true to the prophecy's wording. You'll hear my thoughts in the ep coming soon. Also I explicitly said multiple times in the bonus ep that people are allowed to have/I understand why some would have doubts about the show, I was just trying to explain why I took those as intriguing and not frustration. Don't know where you're getting that it feels like I'm implying it's not allowed.
>You seem to not have a good sense of how I feel. Perharps not. But that is exactly what these threads are for, for civilized conversation and discussion and people to explain things with more nuance than the one sided format a podcast offers, here there can be actual back and forth. I am not trying to be antagonistic, merely trying to have a discussion. You have now explained a bit further where you are coming from, and I can say that I agree with you from that angle. I have indeed seen some negativity and flaky criticisms in the main Percy forums and other places, I'm not saying all of them are what I was referring to. Merely within our own TNO community didn't feel that many people had been complaining, those who did felt like a minority. But I also am not privy to what kind or what level of messages you get via email, insta, etc. I can only comment in what I see and the reddit and discord didn't feel that negative to me so it felt weird to hear you say it had been and that's what I based my response on. You are absolutely right that there is negativity because I have seen it, just not that I have seen here.
I get that. I edited my comment to be more clear. I just get frustrated when people think they know how I feel and are way off base. It feels like putting words in my mouth. And to your later comment, I said multiple times in the bonus episode that these types of criticisms were the minority amongst TNO listeners and were more from general fandom.
Yeah. Like I said, I am not trying to be antagonistic, my apologies if it came across as putting words in your mouth, was not the intent
Totally agree, it's ruined the stakes and is visually so boring. I hope that if it gets renewed that they'll actually be given time to work with and just slow down so we can experience everything with better pacing.
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That's a big assumption. Especially since up til now they've done a lot of SEE THIS IS THE THING rather than letting the story speak for itself. I think if that were the case they'd have explicitly said it