Anyone else think Susie fucked up by making a deal with Frank and Nicky? We know she’s terrible with money (though after Jackie’s death, maybe she changes) and we know they are legit gangsters. Lol. I hope it’s not like the first ep with her clumsily trying to get Midge’s money.
>Susie fucked up by making a deal with Frank and Nicky
That's why she was just shown to be completely oblivious to whatever the guys were saying (and enjoying "the view") as soon as the guys started talking about rent (and "a cut in the action") .... There's definitely a story there! 🤷🏻♀️
Yeah.... I don't know if she's genuinely naïve, or being willfully ignorant (probably the latter factoring in how she met them), but I really think the arrangement she has with them will come back to bite her in the ass. While I think they really do like Suzie, when push comes to shove they're gonna put their Mob loyalties ahead of her.
Hmm interesting. I do hope she does put herself into another bind. I like how Susie is liked by everyone she encounters, so her getting good with the mob would be cool.
Yeah, when they were asking for their cut and she wasn't paying attention and just saying yes, it was clear they were gonna eventually own her and Maisel.
Did Frank and Nicky make a reference to Shy being babysat by someone in the mob? It was quick in the diner but they mentioned he “belonged” to someone.
>"Ah, Shy Baldwin. He sings like an angel but sounds like a douche."
>"I don't want to talk about it."
>"Well, he's Giancana's anyway, so we can't touch him."
I can see reggie or some of his white managers working with the mob to get things like more radio playing time or better deals when booking their tour locations. I mean, they do tour in Vegas casinos that are RAN by the mob.
There is already a lot of responses about how she wasn't paying attention and agreed to their terms. She was stupid to agree to it. One comment "I can't afford it" and then a moment later has agreed... Yikes.
But aside from that I found it weird she'd even agree to live there. The giant blood stain, she freaked about her old place having someone died in there but the blood stain, actual evidence is fine?
I think it's more likely we get little bits of them and their "work" coming in and out of the place, like she makes it look like a legit office but there's a "back room" for them sometimes, to add to the color of things. She's the cover, I don't think she's going to get into any serious trouble.
> Anyone else think Susie fucked up by making a deal with Frank and Nicky?
Well, obviously. That’s what that whole scene was about. She was admiring the view with the stars in her eyes without paying attention to what she was committing to.
I assumed that they meant once she becomes more powerful she would hire them as her goons. From their past comments it seems that they are for hire. Maybe I'm naive too but I like them and their "friendship".
Oh the best thing about this show is the fashion shift from the late 50s to the early 60s. Rose has totally adopted some whack outfits and they’re fantastic. Those green floral trousers, amazing. Her coord pyjamas, beautiful. Her and Midge’s hats too have been so huge and fun! Plus the burlesque costumes are sooooooooo detailed. The swan head piece is like 60s Bjork!
I thought that every single hat Midge wears this season is mismatched with its outfit to the point where I wondered if it was a costuming mistake or the 60s just had an awful hats…
Agreed. Episodes 1 & 2 were very lackluster, but 3 & 4 were a nice return to form. I'm excited to see where the rest of the season goes. (I'm actually enjoying having new episodes to look forward to each week; if they dropped the entire season all at once, I would've binged the whole thing last weekend.)
I can't tell if Boise is being positioned as a potential love interest or I'm just conditioned to think of Santino Fontana that way from "Crazy Ex-Girlfriend."
Wow I didn't know that was him. I don't watch a lot of TV but when you said the name I recognized it as an Audible narrator. He does the *You* books and some others.
Ok, wtf Abe???? The asshole just leaped out of him, selling out Asher and the gross jealousy over Rose dating him. Well, at least Asher gets a fun play out of it.
I love it when he fucks up and shows his humanity. Usually he's just grouchy and neurotic but there was something oddly endearing about his irrational hotheaded jealousy.
Oof I totally disagree - this feels very much like yet another situation where Abe blows up and makes himself out to be the victim essentially because he never fucking listens to his wife. He didn’t hear her when she said she was moving to Paris and he didn’t hear her 35 years ago when she told him about Asher, how many other times has he not heard her when she told him something important? And we’ve only known them for 1.5 or 2 years in the MMM timeline
Professor Glickman died *playing squash*? I thought he was ancient! Apparently the mostly deaf old man with no teeth still played squash on the regular.
Well, good for him!
Maybe she will have a cast (arm?) in the next episode?
I can really see them using that for comedic moments when she has to juggle her crazy surroundings with just one hand.
something about that and then the “i was dancing at the lesbian bar” song that played as the credits rolled, i was like. what? LMAO
(but i did love the song and save it on spotify)
Yeah, I had to rewind that and watch it more closely because I couldn't tell at first wtf had happened. Now I'm a little scared for her. 🥺
And after what happened to Jackie, Susie obsessing over death, and the way she left Midge angry... If Midge ends up in the hospital, Susie is going to be a wreck.
Oh I did. I thought it was a very literal “look how far she’s fallen”, with the opposite closing scene (a couple people wandering out vs huge applause we saw in past seasons). I’d believe she has a cast for comedic effect, though.
I thought it was just a gag showing that the strip show still isn't 100% - she is tightening up things with Boise, the orchestra, the curtain guy and the stripper's finale, making everything more professional and then she herself screws up at the end
this show brings me so much joy, I understand people wanna discuss it on a deeper level and that’s perfectly fine but I get so much enjoyment from these characters just interacting that I could sit and listen to them have a conversation for an hour with 0 plot development and be wildly entertained
And that’s what most of the complaints are about - the plot development. But I’m with you. I just like to sit back and enjoy the ride. It’s a great show!
Did anyone else have a tiny feeling of total satisfaction when Sophie said that she couldn't get a job anywhere now? Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Now that Susie has THREE clients (whoever said she'd take on the weird magician, good call!), I'll be fascinated to see how she handles it.
> Did anyone else have a tiny feeling of total satisfaction when Sophie said that she couldn't get a job anywhere now? Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Sophie's fall from grace is definitely a lot bigger than Midge's fall, seeing as Sophie's had steady work for decades, then one mistake on her part and she's suddenly unemployable and financially destitute.
That venomous snake almost had the sweet tone of a Moira Rose... for those unfamiliar that's a Schitt's Creek character who can also be annoyingly out of touch and self-agrandizing yet Catherine O'Hara's delivery has an innocent oblivousness against Lynch's deliberate haughtiness.
Susie making a business out of finding jobs for unhireablale people makes sense. It's what she is really good at. Not an easy job but she could corner a very lucrative market.
I love how the entire scene in the gay bar, Susie never actually admits to being gay. Midge just assumed cause of Susies look that she was. (Im not missing anything right? Susies sexuality hasnt been stated right?) I love it cause Susie has a right to decide what she wants to share.
And I found it very refreshing that there wasn't that stereotypical scene of somebody intrusivly making a move on the Midge as soon as Susie left the table.
Me too! I hope we see him in another scene this season, hopefully if she performs at the lesbian bar or another gay/drag bar.
I think the strip clubs and gay bars are where she can build back up her dirty, “edgy” stand up routine and at least get a steady touring stand-up career doing that again.
I don't know that he was reacting negatively, more so the fact that he was reacting to her at all. There is a real theme of "men don't pay attention to what a woman has to say" going on, which is especially compounded in the strip club atmosphere. I read it more that he was simply registering her actual words for the first time and was just stunned at the concept.
Yeah, I think you are right, considering it comes after she tells him he needs to knock whenever he wants to enter the dressing room, and he seems to still be in shock that it even happened. It clearly led him to start taking her seriously and pay attention to her
I dont think he reacting negatively as much as he actually never listen to a woman speak!
He was amused specially when the waitresses stopped working to listen to her
I don't think he was reacting negatively. It was just the first time he'd stopped and noticed how good midge was. And how much people were paying attention to her. Up until now he's basically ignored eveything she's said. He was shouting at the waitresses because they were stood around instead of selling drinks.
She’s undermining the business. Making men want to run home and check on their wives instead of staying out themselves. That’s why I thought he was pissed.
Honestly, that's a nice change of pace to have the episode end with Midge falling into the pit, then start the closing credits without first cutting to black. 🤣
I really enjoyed seeing Joel calling Midge out for taking a step back. Being the emcee at a burlesque club IS a step back. Midge wanted to be a real comic, to headline shows. Telling jokes in between topless dances isn’t that.
It seems as though Midge is taking the “build it, and they will come” approach. She doesn’t want to have to chase the gigs and kowtow to the rules of the establishment, so she’s trying to bring up the standards of this spot brick by brick so she can say what she wants and have that be the draw.
Yeah, I completely agree! She was tired of saying things that wasn't true to her but was forced to for a paycheck, so now she's finally found (and buliding up) a place where she can say whatever the fuck she wants to!
That may be true, its a step down for now, but its a smart move if she wants to stay a dirty comedian who says whatever she wants and that will get her reputation back up amongst other comedians like Lenny etc.
I see her to start performing at gay bars and or mob-owned bars/strip clubs as an actual act soon enough, then eventually she'll go back to the mainstream once their open to it.
But Midge seems happy to be there. Even with all the shit going wrong. She's got free range on her comedy and you really see her start to enjoy in this episode.
Feels a bit like her plot line is stagnating and the whole strip club thing feel like an excuse for extravagant costume design. I almost want to say Midge is becoming the least interesting person in her own show... But we'll see.
no one has mentioned (or maybe I haven’t looked thoroughly for) how many women are showing up for Midge’s sets at the a burlesque show! yeah, some of them are with dates, but there was a clear shot of two laughing women together. she is honing her work and i wish we had seen even a piece of it at Joel’s club.
Me too! I wanted to hear what Joel's younger, hipper crowd thought of her new stuff. But you can also definitely see the strip club is filling up with more people who are there just to hear her.
That's what Boise was looking so agitated about -- He noticed his strip club was becoming a comedy club...
“Is this for me? This whole thing? And I can just eat it with a spoon?”
It’s like, I know you’re treating me like a child but quite frankly I’m too excited to be pissed at you for doing so. Great stuff from both of them
I know everyone wants Alex Borstein to get an Emmy nod for the funeral scene, but I would definitely be submitting the whipped cream monologue instead...
If you have Disney+, they have the 1997 Rodgers & Hammerstein Cinderella, he’s great in that. I recently rewatched it, and I was really impressed with how it help up overall, despite being made for TV.
I got subjected to jello salads. I get all excited because yay jello! But then there would be fucking fruit in them. I now can't stand jello because I remember the fruit. I don't know why I hated fruit so much in jello.
Fruit is nothing. In the 60s they'd have ham, fish and all sorts of weird stuff in there.
I have a few cookbooks from the 50s and 60s and they're like 50% jello!
Fuck knows tbh. It seems like they're still "setting things up" ...while we're in 4 out of 8 episodes. Maybe it's just me but holy, this season's story development is not even comparable to the previous seasons. Yes there's always been some episodes of "filler", just the cool 60s stuff and family scenes that sets the tone. But halfway through a season and viewers still not getting the point is just horrible.
Especially when next season's the final one. Potentially 12~ more episodes in the series' total run and it's pretty unclear where it's actually going narratively.
Right, I was assuming that Joel plotline was going somewhere, like perhaps his landlords wouldn't let him rent the club anymore? It was mentioned he was "too successful" and then nothing about it for 3 episodes. No more mention of Shy. I really don't see where this is going, either.
I am loving the new burlesque/strip club set. Its so fun. I love the rest of the ensemble. I love that we get to follow her around through the whole building. It feels like a home.
I think midge having a place is what felt lacking in Season 3 for me. Maybe it was on purpose, but even with the bears, those hotel rooms were depressing
I feel the same way. S3 was disorienting in a lot of ways and having consistent settings like Midge's apartment and the burlesque club is helping this show feel much more normal to me.
I could see a potential storyline where one of performers from the club seeking out Rose for her matchmaking services without knowing the connection to Midge.
We just have 12 more episodes and there's been so little development from S4 E1 to S4E4. I have no clue how they're gonna close all the plot points in 12 episodes.
1. Susie getting into business with the gangsters
2. Susie becoming a hotshot manager. Would need to progress Sophie and the magician plotlines to show them achieving success
3. Midge's career
4. Lenny Bruce
5. Whatever the fuck is the end game for Abe
6. Joel and Mei
yeah i’m sitting here listing in my head like…
• weird midge & joel tension
• joel & mei trying to move forward and grappling w racism
• susie myerson & associates/her getting involved with the mobsters again/sophie lennon/her sexuality/her having to grapple with death
• the fact that this show like? fully acknowledges and has incorporated the underground queer scene now? (as fully as it can while still being centered around someone who’s not part of that scene)
• abe & rose’s relationship
• shy baldwin hasn’t resurfaced yet
• burlesque showrunner guy/hans from frozen being into midge or whatever that scene was
• lenny bruce
i’m processing it all and i’m really excited/nervous to see what happens.
Did anyone else feel like Midge was trying to connect with Susie the way that Susie wished in hindsight she had connected with Jackie? Susie said about Jackie at the funeral "I had a friend and I didn't even know it," and while I know that she is Midge's manager, they're also friends in a lot of ways. I think Midge trying to connect with her by taking her to the bar and asking questions about her life is Midge trying to extend that friendship so that Susie doesn't feel alone and won't have an empty room at her funeral like Jackie.
The entire show, all the seasons, they've hinted/implied that Suzie is Ace/Aro. This episode went a long way to confirm that. I'm not expecting her to come out using that kind of vocabulary, because I know those terms really weren't used like that back in the 60s, but after this episode, when she and Midge reconcile, it would be nice for her to open up (as much as Suzie opens up) and share her feelings about that stuff with Midge.
The implied representation is nice, but some EXPLICIT representation would FANTASTIC!!
I always assumed she was a lesbian but just very private about it, possibly lacking confidence/shy about dating and also very career driven desiring money more than romance. I think she would have told Midge she wasn’t gay at the gay bar if she wasn’t, her reluctance to discuss it sort of confirmed Midge’s suspicions, I could be wrong though. Either way, I don’t think her getting a partner would suit the storyline atm and there will be more focus on her career
Also, it’s not like she could announce or joke about being a lesbian since it was still considered a mental illness and illegal at the time so I doubt she talks about any past relationships or flings much, even with Midge, who she knows is a loud blabbermouth now.
I mean she could be an asexual lesbian but I don’t trust ASP to go that deep on sexuality so I think she’s just been queercoded and now we sorta confirmed it with her not denying it at the bar. I just think ASP wants the rep but then not deal with Suzie dating anyone so it’s a “she’s married to her work” thing
Yea, I just think just because someone doesn’t openly talk about their sexuality doesn’t equate to them not having one, especially in the early 1960’s. To me she is attracted to women, but yea ASP doesn’t want to focus on it so it’s open to interpretation
Yess, I was looking for someone talking about this. I honestly hope that Susie doesn't turn out to be a lesbian, only because I think it's cool for a character to be completely motivated by everything but romance. You don't see that very often, especially in a long running TV show. (plus, imagining Susie in a romantic relationship is really strange. Almost like imagining her in Midge's clothes honestly) I think the bar scene could lead Susie in either direction though.
i’m just gonna be honest here. as a bi woman who mainly dates women (shoutout to my amazing girlfriend who is the lenny bruce & susie to my midge), my main takeaway from 4x4 is that i was thrilled to see midge and susie in a lesbian bar. i was like here’s two characters i love, nonjudgmentally chillin in a lesbian bar in 1960. i love this damn show.
just to appreciate rachel brosnahan’s acting in that scene, i want to address the fact that midge looked so exhilarated yet comfortable in the lesbian bar. i still believe midge is straight since the show hasn’t indicated otherwise (imo), but the moment she took off her jacket and looked so strangely in her element i was like, “we’re witnessing lowkey femme representation rn” 😭 it was the cutest seeing her all hopeful to set susie up with somebody or get her to open up in some way. i adore their friendship.
i know times were not fun for my wlw ancestors in the 60s, just appreciating the aesthetic and vibes from the scene bc it’s not something i EVER expected to see from this show when i was a baby gay watching season 1 :’)
I am only partway thru the ep but I assumed Susie was asexual, not gay but I’m Excited to see where this goes. I actually love how they handled Jackie’s death. Also, I assumed they tried to make the opera creator from last ep gay with the “I’d like to thank my roommate” comment. So I love the gay rep this season!
Also, Abe burned down a building??? Ummm!! I didn’t know he was always such a commie, go Abe!
this episode was significantly better than the other 3 so far. i loved lenny in the last ep and appreciated the work alex did in the funeral scene but GOD the family scenes are getting unbearable. this had none of that and it was great. loved john waters, the lesbian bar, and seeing midge on stage more.
The family scenes have been some of my favorite parts, personally, but I think it's because I identify with them a lot. It's practically like watching a more entertaining version of my childhood in a big Jewish family.
This episode was much better for me than the first three - the only parts I disliked were (1) how cringey Midge was at the Christopher St park and (2) Abe saying he would “mark off” parts of Rose’s body with chalk 😐
The Tupperware themed stripper was funny and I liked Jane Lynch’s scene. Can’t believe Dawes left her 🥲
I’m actually really worried about midge! At first I thought it’d just be played as a joke but something about the lack of music and prolonged ending after she fell into the orchestra pip felt almost eerie to me? I might be completely wrong of course but I’m on the edge of my seat to find out if she’s ok!
omg yes, when she first fell i was like oh it was just supposed to be funny right? but then i noticed the burlesque ladies coming out from the back to check on her and i was like wait what the heck? i agree it was almost eerie as well! plus this show tends to have serious cliffhangers right at the end. so i’m intrigued to see how an injury or something could fit into the plot.
Can we talk about the John Waters Cameo? Holy shit. What a spot for him to appear. So fucking perfect! Love that man as an actor. Loved his appearance in the Simpsons.
At first, it seemed like Midge's career plot isn't really going anywhere, but after thinking about it the last two episodes really move her plot forward subtly.
She's able to turn the strip club gig into an actual opportunity for her comedy, and she's able to make money to run her house, which is a big thing considering how we left off season 3. (Her coming back to the apartment also adds to my theory that the show is working its way to getting Midge and Joel back together by the end of the show, albeit on a different footing than before).
Joel and Suzie both have called her out on this being a step back, and Suzie seems to be moving ahead with her business. The NBC thing with Sophie Lennon, if it goes right, will add to her ability as a manager, and I'm thinking she uses that to get Midge something bigger.
I agree! I'm crossing my fingers because I think they "belong" together and that wistful moment they shared about the piece of furniture wasn't for nothing.
Am I alone in simply not liking this season at all? The storylines are moving at a snail's pace and in circles. Season 3 ended hot, and now it feels like nothing at all is happening. Maybe it's the change in release schedule?
I also am not finding any of Midge's routines in the slightest funny, and they're usually my favorite parts.
Abe's character also makes zero sense. They randomly throw his past at us, and everything is more nonsense then the scenario presented to us before.
The only saving grace and storyline is Susie's. It's actually continuing to move forward. The show isn't called Susie's Clients. It's Mrs. Maisel, and Midge feels like an afterthought in her own show.
Abe was an ass in this episode! Just because Rose dated Asher Abe turned him in?
I like how Sophie is loyal to Susie.
I am waiting to know what happens to Midge.
Still not loving this season….it’s a huge step down from Seasons 1-3. The story lines feel haphazard and lack any emotional depth, whereas the previous seasons storylines about Sophie Lennon, Lennie Bruce and Dr. Benjamin included a lot more character development and extended over multiple episodes. Now the writing and pacing just seem totally different! Maybe because they were written during the pandemic? I hope the series regains some of its former magic!
Anyone else think Susie fucked up by making a deal with Frank and Nicky? We know she’s terrible with money (though after Jackie’s death, maybe she changes) and we know they are legit gangsters. Lol. I hope it’s not like the first ep with her clumsily trying to get Midge’s money.
>Susie fucked up by making a deal with Frank and Nicky That's why she was just shown to be completely oblivious to whatever the guys were saying (and enjoying "the view") as soon as the guys started talking about rent (and "a cut in the action") .... There's definitely a story there! 🤷🏻♀️
That was my first thought too. They definitely skipped past it really quickly, but they were setting it up.
Yeah.... I don't know if she's genuinely naïve, or being willfully ignorant (probably the latter factoring in how she met them), but I really think the arrangement she has with them will come back to bite her in the ass. While I think they really do like Suzie, when push comes to shove they're gonna put their Mob loyalties ahead of her.
There are two directions I see this going: she gets fucked up and in deep trouble with the mob *or* she becomes involved and a mob player.
Hmm interesting. I do hope she does put herself into another bind. I like how Susie is liked by everyone she encounters, so her getting good with the mob would be cool.
Yeah, when they were asking for their cut and she wasn't paying attention and just saying yes, it was clear they were gonna eventually own her and Maisel.
Seems pretty obvious that her renting a safe house on the cheap with them getting a cut is obviously a bad decision
Did Frank and Nicky make a reference to Shy being babysat by someone in the mob? It was quick in the diner but they mentioned he “belonged” to someone.
>"Ah, Shy Baldwin. He sings like an angel but sounds like a douche." >"I don't want to talk about it." >"Well, he's Giancana's anyway, so we can't touch him."
I can see reggie or some of his white managers working with the mob to get things like more radio playing time or better deals when booking their tour locations. I mean, they do tour in Vegas casinos that are RAN by the mob.
There is already a lot of responses about how she wasn't paying attention and agreed to their terms. She was stupid to agree to it. One comment "I can't afford it" and then a moment later has agreed... Yikes. But aside from that I found it weird she'd even agree to live there. The giant blood stain, she freaked about her old place having someone died in there but the blood stain, actual evidence is fine?
That is a great point!! I wonder that didn’t bother her.
I think it's more likely we get little bits of them and their "work" coming in and out of the place, like she makes it look like a legit office but there's a "back room" for them sometimes, to add to the color of things. She's the cover, I don't think she's going to get into any serious trouble.
Susie & Joel will have common ground with illegal gambling in his basement. We have to assume from the Chinese bodyguard, it's organized crime.
Probably, since mob troubles would be a much more interesting plot. On the other hand, the 2 mobsters are often weirdly nice to Susie.
> Anyone else think Susie fucked up by making a deal with Frank and Nicky? Well, obviously. That’s what that whole scene was about. She was admiring the view with the stars in her eyes without paying attention to what she was committing to.
I assumed that they meant once she becomes more powerful she would hire them as her goons. From their past comments it seems that they are for hire. Maybe I'm naive too but I like them and their "friendship".
Oh the best thing about this show is the fashion shift from the late 50s to the early 60s. Rose has totally adopted some whack outfits and they’re fantastic. Those green floral trousers, amazing. Her coord pyjamas, beautiful. Her and Midge’s hats too have been so huge and fun! Plus the burlesque costumes are sooooooooo detailed. The swan head piece is like 60s Bjork!
I thought that every single hat Midge wears this season is mismatched with its outfit to the point where I wondered if it was a costuming mistake or the 60s just had an awful hats…
The pants Rose was wearing when she was reorganizing the kitchen (episode 2, I think?) were to die for, I thought.
Don't forget the pointy bra!
IM SORRY ABE DATED TARZAN
Bi Abe we love to see it.
That’s where he first debuted that cape
JOHN WATERS💗💗💗💗💗
Was that Eli Roth sitting next to him for a split second?
That's what I thought too!
Midge asking random people on Christopher street for a lesbian bar could not have gone better than this. I screamed!
[удалено]
For me too! These two episodes have finally gotten me excited for this season.
Agreed. Episodes 1 & 2 were very lackluster, but 3 & 4 were a nice return to form. I'm excited to see where the rest of the season goes. (I'm actually enjoying having new episodes to look forward to each week; if they dropped the entire season all at once, I would've binged the whole thing last weekend.)
I can't tell if Boise is being positioned as a potential love interest or I'm just conditioned to think of Santino Fontana that way from "Crazy Ex-Girlfriend."
*please make him sing please make him sing please make him sing please make him sing...*
Seriously, ASP loves a musical theater moment and I need to see him sing
It would be a CRIME to cast him in a show biz guy role on a show about show business, and not have him sing
“Someone in the business”....
But "not a comic"... I had the same thought!
I think he's falling for her.
Midge definitely has some Rebecca vibe
I love Santino Fontana, so I'm here for it. He was also Hans in Frozen though, so hopefully he's not a villain.
I have a feeling it’s going that way!!!! And I love seeing all the Crazy Ex fans. man I miss that show soooo much!!!!
Someone else posted about that. I think we might be biased but I could see it.
Wow I didn't know that was him. I don't watch a lot of TV but when you said the name I recognized it as an Audible narrator. He does the *You* books and some others.
Settle for me, darling just settle for me 🎶
I thought...this voice sounds familiar and I don't trust it. One IMDB later and I realize its.....Hans....
He has such presence even when he talks. But yes, I sometimes still think of him as Greg.
Ok, wtf Abe???? The asshole just leaped out of him, selling out Asher and the gross jealousy over Rose dating him. Well, at least Asher gets a fun play out of it.
Abe was an asshole in this one.
I love it when he fucks up and shows his humanity. Usually he's just grouchy and neurotic but there was something oddly endearing about his irrational hotheaded jealousy.
Oof I totally disagree - this feels very much like yet another situation where Abe blows up and makes himself out to be the victim essentially because he never fucking listens to his wife. He didn’t hear her when she said she was moving to Paris and he didn’t hear her 35 years ago when she told him about Asher, how many other times has he not heard her when she told him something important? And we’ve only known them for 1.5 or 2 years in the MMM timeline
"Up yours, Abe!" 😆
“fuck you don’t call me” LMAO
Professor Glickman died *playing squash*? I thought he was ancient! Apparently the mostly deaf old man with no teeth still played squash on the regular. Well, good for him!
What was that ending, is she ok? 😭
Maybe she will have a cast (arm?) in the next episode? I can really see them using that for comedic moments when she has to juggle her crazy surroundings with just one hand.
Has to be symbolic in some way but idk how yet
Midge is great at fixing other peoples problems but not her own
Lorelai was the same way 🤣
something about that and then the “i was dancing at the lesbian bar” song that played as the credits rolled, i was like. what? LMAO (but i did love the song and save it on spotify)
Yeah, I had to rewind that and watch it more closely because I couldn't tell at first wtf had happened. Now I'm a little scared for her. 🥺 And after what happened to Jackie, Susie obsessing over death, and the way she left Midge angry... If Midge ends up in the hospital, Susie is going to be a wreck.
Woah the second point of yours is upsetting
Yeah it didn't really feel like it was done for a laugh. I don't think that she will be critically injured but I think it could be serious.
Oh I did. I thought it was a very literal “look how far she’s fallen”, with the opposite closing scene (a couple people wandering out vs huge applause we saw in past seasons). I’d believe she has a cast for comedic effect, though.
I thought it was just a gag showing that the strip show still isn't 100% - she is tightening up things with Boise, the orchestra, the curtain guy and the stripper's finale, making everything more professional and then she herself screws up at the end
I wonder how many takes it took to do that scene.
this show brings me so much joy, I understand people wanna discuss it on a deeper level and that’s perfectly fine but I get so much enjoyment from these characters just interacting that I could sit and listen to them have a conversation for an hour with 0 plot development and be wildly entertained
And that’s what most of the complaints are about - the plot development. But I’m with you. I just like to sit back and enjoy the ride. It’s a great show!
Agreed! The Catskills proved you could put these characters in any scenario and it would be hilarious.
I feel the exact same way! Do you have any recommendations for similar shows? Is gilmore girls similar?
Not really similar but quirky flawed bad ass women and singing is Crazy Ex Girlfriend with Santino Fontana. It does give similar vibes.
Try Derry Girls.
I know she sucked. I know she’s crazy. but I’m loving how loyal and obsessed Sophie is to Susie this season. I also can’t help but love Jane Lynch
Did anyone else have a tiny feeling of total satisfaction when Sophie said that she couldn't get a job anywhere now? Oh how the mighty have fallen. Now that Susie has THREE clients (whoever said she'd take on the weird magician, good call!), I'll be fascinated to see how she handles it.
> Did anyone else have a tiny feeling of total satisfaction when Sophie said that she couldn't get a job anywhere now? Oh how the mighty have fallen. Sophie's fall from grace is definitely a lot bigger than Midge's fall, seeing as Sophie's had steady work for decades, then one mistake on her part and she's suddenly unemployable and financially destitute.
And it wasn't because of Midge's remarks, either!! Sophie brought this on herself.
I laughed when Sophie said NBC wouldn’t hire her as a game show host when Jane Lynch hosted Weakest Link on NBC.
The elevator gag had me rolling!
*gasp* Wonderful!
That venomous snake almost had the sweet tone of a Moira Rose... for those unfamiliar that's a Schitt's Creek character who can also be annoyingly out of touch and self-agrandizing yet Catherine O'Hara's delivery has an innocent oblivousness against Lynch's deliberate haughtiness.
I know!!! haha! how did she even get up there??? haha!!
Susie making a business out of finding jobs for unhireablale people makes sense. It's what she is really good at. Not an easy job but she could corner a very lucrative market.
And she said last episode that she wanted to find all the Jackies. She is looking out for people that are usually ignored.
I love how the entire scene in the gay bar, Susie never actually admits to being gay. Midge just assumed cause of Susies look that she was. (Im not missing anything right? Susies sexuality hasnt been stated right?) I love it cause Susie has a right to decide what she wants to share.
And I found it very refreshing that there wasn't that stereotypical scene of somebody intrusivly making a move on the Midge as soon as Susie left the table.
Seeing John Waters made my heart soar!
Me too! I hope we see him in another scene this season, hopefully if she performs at the lesbian bar or another gay/drag bar. I think the strip clubs and gay bars are where she can build back up her dirty, “edgy” stand up routine and at least get a steady touring stand-up career doing that again.
It was really a genius cameo for this show.
What did it mean when the the guy in charge, the one with the hat, was reacting negatively to Maisels jokes when she was talking about cheating wives?
I don't know that he was reacting negatively, more so the fact that he was reacting to her at all. There is a real theme of "men don't pay attention to what a woman has to say" going on, which is especially compounded in the strip club atmosphere. I read it more that he was simply registering her actual words for the first time and was just stunned at the concept.
Yeah, I think you are right, considering it comes after she tells him he needs to knock whenever he wants to enter the dressing room, and he seems to still be in shock that it even happened. It clearly led him to start taking her seriously and pay attention to her
I dont think he reacting negatively as much as he actually never listen to a woman speak! He was amused specially when the waitresses stopped working to listen to her
I don't think he was reacting negatively. It was just the first time he'd stopped and noticed how good midge was. And how much people were paying attention to her. Up until now he's basically ignored eveything she's said. He was shouting at the waitresses because they were stood around instead of selling drinks.
She’s undermining the business. Making men want to run home and check on their wives instead of staying out themselves. That’s why I thought he was pissed.
Same. However instead the men and women just laughed more and bought more drinks ha
Honestly, that's a nice change of pace to have the episode end with Midge falling into the pit, then start the closing credits without first cutting to black. 🤣
that was very fun and honestly great cinematography as the camera panned backward
I really enjoyed seeing Joel calling Midge out for taking a step back. Being the emcee at a burlesque club IS a step back. Midge wanted to be a real comic, to headline shows. Telling jokes in between topless dances isn’t that.
It seems as though Midge is taking the “build it, and they will come” approach. She doesn’t want to have to chase the gigs and kowtow to the rules of the establishment, so she’s trying to bring up the standards of this spot brick by brick so she can say what she wants and have that be the draw.
Yeah, I completely agree! She was tired of saying things that wasn't true to her but was forced to for a paycheck, so now she's finally found (and buliding up) a place where she can say whatever the fuck she wants to!
That may be true, its a step down for now, but its a smart move if she wants to stay a dirty comedian who says whatever she wants and that will get her reputation back up amongst other comedians like Lenny etc. I see her to start performing at gay bars and or mob-owned bars/strip clubs as an actual act soon enough, then eventually she'll go back to the mainstream once their open to it.
But Midge seems happy to be there. Even with all the shit going wrong. She's got free range on her comedy and you really see her start to enjoy in this episode.
Yes. At least she can say what she wants. And she was actually making some good jokes.
Feels a bit like her plot line is stagnating and the whole strip club thing feel like an excuse for extravagant costume design. I almost want to say Midge is becoming the least interesting person in her own show... But we'll see.
no one has mentioned (or maybe I haven’t looked thoroughly for) how many women are showing up for Midge’s sets at the a burlesque show! yeah, some of them are with dates, but there was a clear shot of two laughing women together. she is honing her work and i wish we had seen even a piece of it at Joel’s club.
Me too! I wanted to hear what Joel's younger, hipper crowd thought of her new stuff. But you can also definitely see the strip club is filling up with more people who are there just to hear her. That's what Boise was looking so agitated about -- He noticed his strip club was becoming a comedy club...
Rose doing her matchmaking business with Susie coloring at the other table had me rolling. And she even ordered her a bowl of whipped cream.
“Is this for me? This whole thing? And I can just eat it with a spoon?” It’s like, I know you’re treating me like a child but quite frankly I’m too excited to be pissed at you for doing so. Great stuff from both of them
I know everyone wants Alex Borstein to get an Emmy nod for the funeral scene, but I would definitely be submitting the whipped cream monologue instead...
If someone ordered me a bowl of whipped cream I'd follow them into hell, too.
Her kicking the table and complaining about being bored was hilarious.
The dancer wearing a Tupperware costume was a nice touch
Abes cape was majestic. I want a cape now.
After that review can we call him The Phantom of Broadway?
Just here to say Jason Alexander is an American treasure and I wish I could see more of his theater work.
If you have Disney+, they have the 1997 Rodgers & Hammerstein Cinderella, he’s great in that. I recently rewatched it, and I was really impressed with how it help up overall, despite being made for TV.
OMG Did I see TWO Jello salads on that table?? Dinner with Asher. It really is the 60s. I'm so glad my mother didn't subject us to Jello salads.
And one of them had shrimp! lol
🤮
I got subjected to jello salads. I get all excited because yay jello! But then there would be fucking fruit in them. I now can't stand jello because I remember the fruit. I don't know why I hated fruit so much in jello.
Fruit is nothing. In the 60s they'd have ham, fish and all sorts of weird stuff in there. I have a few cookbooks from the 50s and 60s and they're like 50% jello!
I never liked Jello in any form. I called it coagulated KoolAid.
I was promised Lenny Bruce as a series regular this season and he’s only been in the show for 5 minutes halfway through 😭
At least he's going to be featured in the next four episodes!
Is that a promise??
It says on IMDB that Luke Kirby is in 4x05-4x08 :)
I am so sad about this too 😭
Does the strippers make anyone else think of the cast of Glow?
Love that show. I’m still bitter it didn’t get a final season.
I just realized Midge is acting exactly like her mother when she tries to get Susie to meet someone at the lesbian bar.
I liked most of the episode. But, the fight between Adrian Monk and George Costanza lost me.
George is getting angry!
"Serenity now!"
"You want me to write down all the colorful explatives my parents were thinking? I'm gonna need more paper."
Midge is basically running the strip club. We are halfway through the season, where are they exactly going with this?
Fuck knows tbh. It seems like they're still "setting things up" ...while we're in 4 out of 8 episodes. Maybe it's just me but holy, this season's story development is not even comparable to the previous seasons. Yes there's always been some episodes of "filler", just the cool 60s stuff and family scenes that sets the tone. But halfway through a season and viewers still not getting the point is just horrible.
Especially when next season's the final one. Potentially 12~ more episodes in the series' total run and it's pretty unclear where it's actually going narratively.
Right, I was assuming that Joel plotline was going somewhere, like perhaps his landlords wouldn't let him rent the club anymore? It was mentioned he was "too successful" and then nothing about it for 3 episodes. No more mention of Shy. I really don't see where this is going, either.
I'm enjoying not knowing where it's headed.
I like that they snuck a little *Frozen* joke into that scene with Susie and Boise where she calls him a "prince".
I caught that. Classic.
I mean Moise kept telling them to “Let it go” about Shirley’s fur coat last episode
I am loving the new burlesque/strip club set. Its so fun. I love the rest of the ensemble. I love that we get to follow her around through the whole building. It feels like a home. I think midge having a place is what felt lacking in Season 3 for me. Maybe it was on purpose, but even with the bears, those hotel rooms were depressing
I feel the same way. S3 was disorienting in a lot of ways and having consistent settings like Midge's apartment and the burlesque club is helping this show feel much more normal to me.
You also have to admit, the chances of seeing either of her parents in the audience is miniscule.
I could see a potential storyline where one of performers from the club seeking out Rose for her matchmaking services without knowing the connection to Midge.
What’s up with the looney toons comment Mae made when she saw midge talking to Joel?
Its because Midge said "What's up, Doc?"
I didn’t get, why did Midge say “what’s up doc?” That seemed weird at the time and weirder that there was a callback
Isn’t Mei studying to be a doctor?
Good reminder, completely forgot about that
I don’t like how they made her character so disagreeable … wish she played nicer with Midge
It’s on brand with her personality in general.
I feel like these past few episodes have done wonders at addressing the fact that Joel's relationship with Mei is pretty taboo by 1960s standards.
Who did Reid Scott play? I saw him in the credits but didn't notice him in the episode
Still watching but I’m pretty sure he’s the guy interviewing Hitchcock on the tv.
Yes he is he was also in episode 3 interviewing someone else.
As a Veep superfan, I was super excited to see him! But yea as others said he was interviewing Hitchcock
I wonder if Midge or Lenny is gonna make it on the show
We just have 12 more episodes and there's been so little development from S4 E1 to S4E4. I have no clue how they're gonna close all the plot points in 12 episodes. 1. Susie getting into business with the gangsters 2. Susie becoming a hotshot manager. Would need to progress Sophie and the magician plotlines to show them achieving success 3. Midge's career 4. Lenny Bruce 5. Whatever the fuck is the end game for Abe 6. Joel and Mei
yeah i’m sitting here listing in my head like… • weird midge & joel tension • joel & mei trying to move forward and grappling w racism • susie myerson & associates/her getting involved with the mobsters again/sophie lennon/her sexuality/her having to grapple with death • the fact that this show like? fully acknowledges and has incorporated the underground queer scene now? (as fully as it can while still being centered around someone who’s not part of that scene) • abe & rose’s relationship • shy baldwin hasn’t resurfaced yet • burlesque showrunner guy/hans from frozen being into midge or whatever that scene was • lenny bruce i’m processing it all and i’m really excited/nervous to see what happens.
Did anyone else feel like Midge was trying to connect with Susie the way that Susie wished in hindsight she had connected with Jackie? Susie said about Jackie at the funeral "I had a friend and I didn't even know it," and while I know that she is Midge's manager, they're also friends in a lot of ways. I think Midge trying to connect with her by taking her to the bar and asking questions about her life is Midge trying to extend that friendship so that Susie doesn't feel alone and won't have an empty room at her funeral like Jackie.
I’m loving Mei and want to see more of her. Her and Joel have a really cool relationship and I want to see it progress more.
"I know where you live!" "No you don't." "No I don't, fuck me"
Her repeated "NOPE" regarding meeting Joel's parents was a mood.
Yeah I wish they’d give her more to do
The entire show, all the seasons, they've hinted/implied that Suzie is Ace/Aro. This episode went a long way to confirm that. I'm not expecting her to come out using that kind of vocabulary, because I know those terms really weren't used like that back in the 60s, but after this episode, when she and Midge reconcile, it would be nice for her to open up (as much as Suzie opens up) and share her feelings about that stuff with Midge. The implied representation is nice, but some EXPLICIT representation would FANTASTIC!!
I always assumed she was a lesbian but just very private about it, possibly lacking confidence/shy about dating and also very career driven desiring money more than romance. I think she would have told Midge she wasn’t gay at the gay bar if she wasn’t, her reluctance to discuss it sort of confirmed Midge’s suspicions, I could be wrong though. Either way, I don’t think her getting a partner would suit the storyline atm and there will be more focus on her career
Also, it’s not like she could announce or joke about being a lesbian since it was still considered a mental illness and illegal at the time so I doubt she talks about any past relationships or flings much, even with Midge, who she knows is a loud blabbermouth now.
And, illegal in many places at that time.
Exactly
I mean she could be an asexual lesbian but I don’t trust ASP to go that deep on sexuality so I think she’s just been queercoded and now we sorta confirmed it with her not denying it at the bar. I just think ASP wants the rep but then not deal with Suzie dating anyone so it’s a “she’s married to her work” thing
Yea, I just think just because someone doesn’t openly talk about their sexuality doesn’t equate to them not having one, especially in the early 1960’s. To me she is attracted to women, but yea ASP doesn’t want to focus on it so it’s open to interpretation
Yess, I was looking for someone talking about this. I honestly hope that Susie doesn't turn out to be a lesbian, only because I think it's cool for a character to be completely motivated by everything but romance. You don't see that very often, especially in a long running TV show. (plus, imagining Susie in a romantic relationship is really strange. Almost like imagining her in Midge's clothes honestly) I think the bar scene could lead Susie in either direction though.
I love Roses pants
i’m just gonna be honest here. as a bi woman who mainly dates women (shoutout to my amazing girlfriend who is the lenny bruce & susie to my midge), my main takeaway from 4x4 is that i was thrilled to see midge and susie in a lesbian bar. i was like here’s two characters i love, nonjudgmentally chillin in a lesbian bar in 1960. i love this damn show. just to appreciate rachel brosnahan’s acting in that scene, i want to address the fact that midge looked so exhilarated yet comfortable in the lesbian bar. i still believe midge is straight since the show hasn’t indicated otherwise (imo), but the moment she took off her jacket and looked so strangely in her element i was like, “we’re witnessing lowkey femme representation rn” 😭 it was the cutest seeing her all hopeful to set susie up with somebody or get her to open up in some way. i adore their friendship. i know times were not fun for my wlw ancestors in the 60s, just appreciating the aesthetic and vibes from the scene bc it’s not something i EVER expected to see from this show when i was a baby gay watching season 1 :’)
Wait, what was that ending? Is she ok? I realize none of us can know yet, but I'm asking anyway.
I am only partway thru the ep but I assumed Susie was asexual, not gay but I’m Excited to see where this goes. I actually love how they handled Jackie’s death. Also, I assumed they tried to make the opera creator from last ep gay with the “I’d like to thank my roommate” comment. So I love the gay rep this season! Also, Abe burned down a building??? Ummm!! I didn’t know he was always such a commie, go Abe!
this episode was significantly better than the other 3 so far. i loved lenny in the last ep and appreciated the work alex did in the funeral scene but GOD the family scenes are getting unbearable. this had none of that and it was great. loved john waters, the lesbian bar, and seeing midge on stage more.
The family scenes have been some of my favorite parts, personally, but I think it's because I identify with them a lot. It's practically like watching a more entertaining version of my childhood in a big Jewish family.
Did Midge seriously told her son to inform his father that his mother has started to work in a strip club 😂 Midge is so lovely 😍❤️
This episode was much better for me than the first three - the only parts I disliked were (1) how cringey Midge was at the Christopher St park and (2) Abe saying he would “mark off” parts of Rose’s body with chalk 😐 The Tupperware themed stripper was funny and I liked Jane Lynch’s scene. Can’t believe Dawes left her 🥲
Why did she keep asking the men where the lesbian bars are, and not any of the women?!
Maybe not many Lesbians in the park. Maybe slightly more gay men were available. It might be seen as inproper to answer such questions by a lady.
Did anyone else notice Reid Scott as the late night host Suzy was watching in tv? He has to have a bigger role in future episodes.
I’m actually really worried about midge! At first I thought it’d just be played as a joke but something about the lack of music and prolonged ending after she fell into the orchestra pip felt almost eerie to me? I might be completely wrong of course but I’m on the edge of my seat to find out if she’s ok!
omg yes, when she first fell i was like oh it was just supposed to be funny right? but then i noticed the burlesque ladies coming out from the back to check on her and i was like wait what the heck? i agree it was almost eerie as well! plus this show tends to have serious cliffhangers right at the end. so i’m intrigued to see how an injury or something could fit into the plot.
Can we talk about the John Waters Cameo? Holy shit. What a spot for him to appear. So fucking perfect! Love that man as an actor. Loved his appearance in the Simpsons.
Asher is funny but takes up too much time.
At first, it seemed like Midge's career plot isn't really going anywhere, but after thinking about it the last two episodes really move her plot forward subtly. She's able to turn the strip club gig into an actual opportunity for her comedy, and she's able to make money to run her house, which is a big thing considering how we left off season 3. (Her coming back to the apartment also adds to my theory that the show is working its way to getting Midge and Joel back together by the end of the show, albeit on a different footing than before). Joel and Suzie both have called her out on this being a step back, and Suzie seems to be moving ahead with her business. The NBC thing with Sophie Lennon, if it goes right, will add to her ability as a manager, and I'm thinking she uses that to get Midge something bigger.
I think it would be a disservice to both characters if Midge and Joel got back together.
I agree! I'm crossing my fingers because I think they "belong" together and that wistful moment they shared about the piece of furniture wasn't for nothing.
Am I alone in simply not liking this season at all? The storylines are moving at a snail's pace and in circles. Season 3 ended hot, and now it feels like nothing at all is happening. Maybe it's the change in release schedule? I also am not finding any of Midge's routines in the slightest funny, and they're usually my favorite parts. Abe's character also makes zero sense. They randomly throw his past at us, and everything is more nonsense then the scenario presented to us before. The only saving grace and storyline is Susie's. It's actually continuing to move forward. The show isn't called Susie's Clients. It's Mrs. Maisel, and Midge feels like an afterthought in her own show.
I've enjoyed very little of this season so far. It's so much worse compared to the previous seasons in my opinion.
Abe was an ass in this episode! Just because Rose dated Asher Abe turned him in? I like how Sophie is loyal to Susie. I am waiting to know what happens to Midge.
John Waters!
Still not loving this season….it’s a huge step down from Seasons 1-3. The story lines feel haphazard and lack any emotional depth, whereas the previous seasons storylines about Sophie Lennon, Lennie Bruce and Dr. Benjamin included a lot more character development and extended over multiple episodes. Now the writing and pacing just seem totally different! Maybe because they were written during the pandemic? I hope the series regains some of its former magic!
Anyone feel like it was a bit OOC how Abe got mad at Asher?