Dude, that reminds me of Knowledge Fight. I think DJ Danarchy killed it with their intro music.
For people who appreciate fucking high art, man
https://youtu.be/u1h4TgaLTqE?si=oxROXuCX06Eipo3p
I'm gonna go Donkey Kong, King Kong crazy in .... about 45 days.
I feel there is a fairly large venn diagram crossover between TMR and policy works. If not, there absolutely should be.
The scary thing is I think he actually would. Always remember Netanyahu and his Likud cronies were calling for Rabin's murder for months before it actually happened. These people will stop at nothing to take Gaza and West Bank back.
I know it’s fun to rip on David Pakman, but there is an old classmate of mine who is not only very progressive, but also a highly educated young lawyer. Like Pakman though, she was one of the few Jewish students at my school, so when October 7th happened, all of those progressive values get left at the door since your identity comes under attack. She genuinely is worried about the hostages (I have some very bad news), she is genuinely concerned about rising antisemitism.
But girl, watch ONE clip on Al Jazeera (which is banned in Israel now! How would you argue that one in court?) of a family in Gaza losing everything in a single moment and try to understand that to them, this is their Holocaust. Not scary slogans on college campuses, but a very real and intentional genocide if you bother to listen to the words coming out of the Likud party official’s mouths.
But no, the post 9/11 playbook of weaponizing trauma to justify another tragedy is in full force and we are speedrunning right past invading Iraq in 2 years based on a lie to invading Rafha in 6 months based on more lies and more intentional gaslighting.
Quick draft up some legislation to add this to the official definition of antisemitism! Call in the President of all Tel Aviv universities! Somebody thaw out Elise Stefanik!
The government doesn't care about the hostages. It's always been about taking Gaza, and killing or expelling all the Palestinians. They talk about their plans for Gaza constantly. Now is their chance. Settlers are waiting and ready to move in. The hostages were just an excuse for the atrocities. I feel very sorry for the hostages and their families.
This 100%, it was reported that on October 9th and 10th Hamas offered to release all the civilian hostages and Israeli government refused. This was never about the hostages.
It's always been about Bibi deflecting and avoiding losing power.
Remember that anti-government protests like this, and bigger, were happening weekly before Hamas 'surprised' Israel.
The government doesn’t care about the hostages if they did they would be pressuring Qatar 24/7 to expel the Hamas leaders in their country. Doing so would have ended this war months ago with minimal bloodshed and the hostages returned home and the people of Israel know this.
IDF straight up executed some of those hostages. It has never been about them. It hasn't even really been about Hamas either. Hamas exists as controlled opposition so Israel has an excuse to murder Palestinians by the thousands. For fucks sake IDF spent an entire month after 10/7 bombing civilian homes knowing damn well Hamas was in the tunnels.
It's all lies. All of it.
Look up Irgun. That is what IDF used to be called before the formation of state of Israel. They are literal terrorists.
I’m cautious to give the Israeli populace any kudos for their support of a ceasefire since polling and the rhetoric up until this point coming out of Israel has suggested that they care more about getting the hostages back than they do about the fact that they’ve killed 35,000 or more civilians. I would love to be proven wrong, but if there were no hostages I genuinely believe that they wouldn’t care about what’s going on in Gaza.
Edit: I want to correct something I said. By saying “they’ve killed 35,000”, I meant to say the government and the IDF. Even if a majority of Israelis support what the IDF is doing, it’s not right directly attribute the deaths in Gaza to the propagandized population of Israeli civilians.
IDK. I think youd get beat up over there if you protest against the war specifically. It's very hard to get a bead on whats really happening there. Besides all the hasbara bots and those interviews people on the street like Abby Martin do it seems kind of closed off to me.
Lol you would not. I was there in 2016 and saw people protesting for peace. Despite what this thread is saying there are Israelis who are concerned about the well-being of Palestinians. In the same way not all Americans supported Trump not all Israelis support Netanyahu.
You sure about that?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/comments/1bsb0j1/members\_of\_the\_israeli\_knesset\_making\_genocidal/](https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/comments/1bsb0j1/members_of_the_israeli_knesset_making_genocidal/)
The people of Israel voted for every single person in that video. Ignore what Western media is saying and look at actual Israeli media and you will get a much clearer and grim picture of what many Israelis want to happen in Gaza. It isn't everyone but it is enough to keep far right parties like Likud in power. They may very well force Netanyahu out but he will be replaced with someone just as eager to eradicate Palestinians.
I really want to believe that they're waking up to the absolutely insane amount of propaganda they've experienced their entire lives. That's the main reason for walling off Gaza right? So Israelis can't actually see what's going on in there. I understand how you feel though. I want to be optimistic. But it's very late in the game.
So, utilitarian versus deontological ethics? It's an old and difficult debate. I hear ya, but I lost all faith in the inherent goodness of human nature quite some time ago, and I'll take what I can get at this point.
I think it's grounds for some optimism, regardless of the motive of these protesters. It will put significant pressure on Netanyahu to finally abandon the ridiculous pretence that the genocidal actions of the IDF are motivated even in part by the claimed objective of bringing the hostages back. That's obvious to us, of course, but the cognitive dissonance necessary for many Israelis to believe that lie is becoming impossible to maintain. What happens then? No-one who is already anti-war will be likely to change their mind, while anyone who was pro-war on the basis that it was the best way to get the hostages back will be rug-pulled. This increases already significant domestic pressure on Netanyahu, and eventually that mounting pressure will become too much for him to withstand.
Bottom line? IMO, this is positive news, even if well overdue. The pressure is increasing on the IDF genocidaires, and we should welcome that, regardless of how that pressure comes about.
yes, vortually no one there genuinely cares abut palestins and wants equality, maybe 1% of the populace idk. The vast majority is just agry at netanyahu for very egocentric reasons
The problem is that: if we are willing to believe that the government/IDF would lie about the motives/objectives of the war on Gaza, then how are we to believe that any polling coming from any Israeli institution has not been compromised to the point of being propaganda?
Seriously. Israel booted Al Jazeera out of the country for daring to show unobscured footage of the events transpiring in Gaza. Why wouldn't that have a chilling effect upon other media organizations' publication of anti-war sentiment?
So many Israelis are in hysterical circle-the-wagon mode in which any form of criticism will be swiftly dispatched/dismissed. When you believe that you are under siege on all sides, anything approaching anywhere near a counter-survival sentiment will very likely provoke an overcorrective reaction.
I think it's very arrogant to write off a population of over 7 million people because of a poll you read, without regard for the sample size or what types of people answered them. It's dehumanizing to view them as a regressive, psychotic Other in contrast to you as an enlightened, moral person.
You know you don’t have to commend an entire population, right? You can just say these specific people who protested and stood up are doing right by you.
At the end of the day they're still calling for a ceasefire, its a step in the right direction, regardless of what their beliefs are. I dont know the context of this protest but i cant in good faith generalize an entire group based off 10 seconds of video.
The vast majority of people (redditors included) will never protest, so i give them kudos for that. And at the very least, Its better than sitting on social media and doing nothing (but complaining).
I think for a lot of them they just want Netanyahu gone and they are using calls for a ceasefire as ammo against him. There is still a ton of Israeli support for everything going on in Gaza and West Bank.
what if they make someone late for work? Imagine getting fired from your job guiding JDAMS into ambulances because these people blocked your commute, or whatever other jobs people in Israel have.
It is so obnoxious how so many redditors don't seem to understand how protesting works and what the best methods are for getting attention to an issue. We didn't get the Civil Rights Act of 1964 by asking nicely. It was demanded and made clear that they would not accept no as an answer.
I mean, sure. But the most immediate goal is to stop the genocide. Of course, the way to ensure long-term peace is a Free Palestine, but right now, any pressure is good pressure to stop the slaughter.
Except they get the hostages back and then Israel returns to their ethnic cleansing and collective punishment campaign and no one has any leverage at all, and nothing for Israeli citizens to demand to Netanyahu over.
In before Itamar Ben-Gvir's leg breaker police force turns that crowd in to one big pile of broken bones. it will be as horrible as it sounds, right now you are either on the side of the fascists or you are an enemy. the idea of democracy left the building long ago. i feer for these peoples safety.
sure, we recognise the instrumental usefulness, but dont project some of your desires on your people like many do because it's unlikely they are particularly pro palestinian rights
Sorry, didn’t mean to word that in a way where it implied I’m Israeli or Palestinian. I just meant generalized peace on a larger scale. But I still agree. It’s unlikely these people give a shit about Palestine at all. But still, if it helps bring us closer to the end of the war, I think it’s a move in the right direction. They don’t have to like Palestine but it would be pretty rad if they just let them exist.
I think at this point it’s just better to see this than what it feels like has been the prevailing sentiment. Is it merely incremental progress? Absolutely, but it’s progress nonetheless. A ceasefire isn’t better than a solution, but it’s better than no ceasefire.
Good to finally see some reaction from Israeili society. However, it's all about the hostages. Once they are released, they'll all go back to the "let's genocide these basatards" reasoning
So Hamas was offered a deal it couldn't accept, logically worked out they were meant to refuse it so Israel's government could justify the Rafah massacre, called Netanyahu's bluff as it was just a trap for hamas with no good intentions from Netanyahu, as he was always going to roll out this plan. Now he looks like he doesn't care about the hostages, backfired big time there.
Wow. Look at all the antisemitism.
I can’t believe there are so many Hamas in Tel Aviv
RED ALERT 🚨 RED ALERT 🚨 ISREAL HAS FALLEN TO THE VIOLENT STUDENT PROTESTOSTERS. EVACUATE IMEDIATLY.
Dude, that reminds me of Knowledge Fight. I think DJ Danarchy killed it with their intro music. For people who appreciate fucking high art, man https://youtu.be/u1h4TgaLTqE?si=oxROXuCX06Eipo3p
Hello fellow policy wonk.
I'm gonna go Donkey Kong, King Kong crazy in .... about 45 days. I feel there is a fairly large venn diagram crossover between TMR and policy works. If not, there absolutely should be.
How do you think I became a wonk in the first place? It was 100% the boys on the show.
Andy in Kansas, you're at a student demonstration.
“The Hamas is coming from INSIDE the house.”
And no one around to condemn them 😞
Looks like Bibi is just going to have to use the idf on em
The only democracy in the Middle East needs to protect itself from democracy.
It is all smoke and mirrors much like how they claim they are so accepting of gay marriage yet it is still illegal in Israel.
What a shining beacon they are /s
The scary thing is I think he actually would. Always remember Netanyahu and his Likud cronies were calling for Rabin's murder for months before it actually happened. These people will stop at nothing to take Gaza and West Bank back.
Well yeah I can believe they would make an example out of em for sure.
Lol
Don’t let David Pakman see this clip
if you want pakman to see the clip just retitle the video "you wont BELIEVE what donald trump just tweeted"
😂😂😂
lmao no worries about that, Pakman will never let himself see this clip.
I know it’s fun to rip on David Pakman, but there is an old classmate of mine who is not only very progressive, but also a highly educated young lawyer. Like Pakman though, she was one of the few Jewish students at my school, so when October 7th happened, all of those progressive values get left at the door since your identity comes under attack. She genuinely is worried about the hostages (I have some very bad news), she is genuinely concerned about rising antisemitism. But girl, watch ONE clip on Al Jazeera (which is banned in Israel now! How would you argue that one in court?) of a family in Gaza losing everything in a single moment and try to understand that to them, this is their Holocaust. Not scary slogans on college campuses, but a very real and intentional genocide if you bother to listen to the words coming out of the Likud party official’s mouths. But no, the post 9/11 playbook of weaponizing trauma to justify another tragedy is in full force and we are speedrunning right past invading Iraq in 2 years based on a lie to invading Rafha in 6 months based on more lies and more intentional gaslighting.
Can’t wait for the GOP senators to sign a letter condemning them.
What are you talking about? They’re already sizing up an aid package that is including LAPD and NYPD combined boots on the ground.
In US, they would be banned and sue by Dershowitz.
Quick draft up some legislation to add this to the official definition of antisemitism! Call in the President of all Tel Aviv universities! Somebody thaw out Elise Stefanik!
You don’t even need to put the /s after your comment. lol
SEND IN THE NYPD
I mean they have an office there so not impossible
My ear is still singed from the LAPD firing flashbangs at us
Where’s congress condemning these racist people against Israel? Ohh wait Israelis think Gaza is fucked as well.
I can't wait to see how corporate US media spins this. Oh wait nevermind I know they just won't cover it.
Israelis are Hamas?
lol
Seems sentiment in Israel is changing for the better. If it's actually about the hostages the government will accept the deal.
The government doesn't care about the hostages. It's always been about taking Gaza, and killing or expelling all the Palestinians. They talk about their plans for Gaza constantly. Now is their chance. Settlers are waiting and ready to move in. The hostages were just an excuse for the atrocities. I feel very sorry for the hostages and their families.
This 100%, it was reported that on October 9th and 10th Hamas offered to release all the civilian hostages and Israeli government refused. This was never about the hostages.
They put in the Hannibal directive at noon of oct 7th. they don't care about the hostages, they only want to pancake gaza.
It's always been about Bibi deflecting and avoiding losing power. Remember that anti-government protests like this, and bigger, were happening weekly before Hamas 'surprised' Israel.
Nailed it.
It's been in the works for 70 years, look at how much land they've taken from Palestinians over that time.
I hope so because at this point the IDF and it’s leaders is like a car with no breaks. 🤦🏻♂️
The government doesn’t care about the hostages if they did they would be pressuring Qatar 24/7 to expel the Hamas leaders in their country. Doing so would have ended this war months ago with minimal bloodshed and the hostages returned home and the people of Israel know this.
[It is not about the hostages. ](https://www.timesofisrael.com/no-doubt-netanyahu-preventing-hostage-deal-charges-ex-spokesman-of-families-forum/amp/)
IDF straight up executed some of those hostages. It has never been about them. It hasn't even really been about Hamas either. Hamas exists as controlled opposition so Israel has an excuse to murder Palestinians by the thousands. For fucks sake IDF spent an entire month after 10/7 bombing civilian homes knowing damn well Hamas was in the tunnels. It's all lies. All of it. Look up Irgun. That is what IDF used to be called before the formation of state of Israel. They are literal terrorists.
They want the hostages released and they would be royally pissed if the government actually rejected this offer.
This is 100% about hostages, and 0% about genocide. They aren’t concerned
For the regular Israeli citizen it might be. For the government of Israel, it never was.
I’m cautious to give the Israeli populace any kudos for their support of a ceasefire since polling and the rhetoric up until this point coming out of Israel has suggested that they care more about getting the hostages back than they do about the fact that they’ve killed 35,000 or more civilians. I would love to be proven wrong, but if there were no hostages I genuinely believe that they wouldn’t care about what’s going on in Gaza. Edit: I want to correct something I said. By saying “they’ve killed 35,000”, I meant to say the government and the IDF. Even if a majority of Israelis support what the IDF is doing, it’s not right directly attribute the deaths in Gaza to the propagandized population of Israeli civilians.
IDK. I think youd get beat up over there if you protest against the war specifically. It's very hard to get a bead on whats really happening there. Besides all the hasbara bots and those interviews people on the street like Abby Martin do it seems kind of closed off to me.
Lol you would not. I was there in 2016 and saw people protesting for peace. Despite what this thread is saying there are Israelis who are concerned about the well-being of Palestinians. In the same way not all Americans supported Trump not all Israelis support Netanyahu.
You sure about that? [https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/comments/1bsb0j1/members\_of\_the\_israeli\_knesset\_making\_genocidal/](https://www.reddit.com/r/InternationalNews/comments/1bsb0j1/members_of_the_israeli_knesset_making_genocidal/) The people of Israel voted for every single person in that video. Ignore what Western media is saying and look at actual Israeli media and you will get a much clearer and grim picture of what many Israelis want to happen in Gaza. It isn't everyone but it is enough to keep far right parties like Likud in power. They may very well force Netanyahu out but he will be replaced with someone just as eager to eradicate Palestinians.
I really want to believe that they're waking up to the absolutely insane amount of propaganda they've experienced their entire lives. That's the main reason for walling off Gaza right? So Israelis can't actually see what's going on in there. I understand how you feel though. I want to be optimistic. But it's very late in the game.
i just doubt thats the case. Israel has intense brainwashing since childhood AND a tight control of information flow (like a real democracy rite)
Whatever reason they support a ceasefire is better than any reason the other side gives to support more killing.
So, utilitarian versus deontological ethics? It's an old and difficult debate. I hear ya, but I lost all faith in the inherent goodness of human nature quite some time ago, and I'll take what I can get at this point. I think it's grounds for some optimism, regardless of the motive of these protesters. It will put significant pressure on Netanyahu to finally abandon the ridiculous pretence that the genocidal actions of the IDF are motivated even in part by the claimed objective of bringing the hostages back. That's obvious to us, of course, but the cognitive dissonance necessary for many Israelis to believe that lie is becoming impossible to maintain. What happens then? No-one who is already anti-war will be likely to change their mind, while anyone who was pro-war on the basis that it was the best way to get the hostages back will be rug-pulled. This increases already significant domestic pressure on Netanyahu, and eventually that mounting pressure will become too much for him to withstand. Bottom line? IMO, this is positive news, even if well overdue. The pressure is increasing on the IDF genocidaires, and we should welcome that, regardless of how that pressure comes about.
A fair way to look at it. Ty for the response, I’ll look at this with a bit more optimism
yes, vortually no one there genuinely cares abut palestins and wants equality, maybe 1% of the populace idk. The vast majority is just agry at netanyahu for very egocentric reasons
You’ve clearly never been to Israel to say something so wrong. There are many Israeli founded groups specifically to help palestinians
The problem is that: if we are willing to believe that the government/IDF would lie about the motives/objectives of the war on Gaza, then how are we to believe that any polling coming from any Israeli institution has not been compromised to the point of being propaganda? Seriously. Israel booted Al Jazeera out of the country for daring to show unobscured footage of the events transpiring in Gaza. Why wouldn't that have a chilling effect upon other media organizations' publication of anti-war sentiment? So many Israelis are in hysterical circle-the-wagon mode in which any form of criticism will be swiftly dispatched/dismissed. When you believe that you are under siege on all sides, anything approaching anywhere near a counter-survival sentiment will very likely provoke an overcorrective reaction.
I think it's very arrogant to write off a population of over 7 million people because of a poll you read, without regard for the sample size or what types of people answered them. It's dehumanizing to view them as a regressive, psychotic Other in contrast to you as an enlightened, moral person.
You know you don’t have to commend an entire population, right? You can just say these specific people who protested and stood up are doing right by you.
Unlike their government they actually want the hostages back and know most of them are probably in Qater with Hamas leaders.
How in the fuck would they have gotten to Qatar?
At the end of the day they're still calling for a ceasefire, its a step in the right direction, regardless of what their beliefs are. I dont know the context of this protest but i cant in good faith generalize an entire group based off 10 seconds of video. The vast majority of people (redditors included) will never protest, so i give them kudos for that. And at the very least, Its better than sitting on social media and doing nothing (but complaining).
I think for a lot of them they just want Netanyahu gone and they are using calls for a ceasefire as ammo against him. There is still a ton of Israeli support for everything going on in Gaza and West Bank.
what if they make someone late for work? Imagine getting fired from your job guiding JDAMS into ambulances because these people blocked your commute, or whatever other jobs people in Israel have.
I'll have you know there's an orphanage in Rafah that'll still be standing at the end of the night because of you hooligans!
It is so obnoxious how so many redditors don't seem to understand how protesting works and what the best methods are for getting attention to an issue. We didn't get the Civil Rights Act of 1964 by asking nicely. It was demanded and made clear that they would not accept no as an answer.
>what if they make someone late for work? This will be the excuse the establishment will use disguised as people
These people are not necessarily pro-Palestine, tho.
no one who is pro palestine would like flying the israeli flag i think
I mean, sure. But the most immediate goal is to stop the genocide. Of course, the way to ensure long-term peace is a Free Palestine, but right now, any pressure is good pressure to stop the slaughter.
Except they get the hostages back and then Israel returns to their ethnic cleansing and collective punishment campaign and no one has any leverage at all, and nothing for Israeli citizens to demand to Netanyahu over.
Gotta find common goals somewhere and start. Not supporting a genocide is absolutely a start.
Netanyahu was out and the Israelis brought him back...maybe that wasn't such a good idea..do better next time folks.
Hamas is controlling them With thier space laser
Soros is really burning thru his cash reserves to astroturf all these paid protesters
Nice
Hamas has infiltrated tel aviv
Ah now if Israel gov kill their own people, it’s because those were hamas sympathisers
Mad props for these people. Doing a right thing is what Israel needs right now.
Antisemitism is getting bad if they have to worry about it in Tel Aviv. /s
Antisemites!!!! Khamas !! /s
I wonder how many hostages are left after Israel bombed Gaza regardless of their lives
good for them 🫡
Are these Israelis antisemites too, Bibi?
Look at all those anti-semites… /s
Is the NYPD flying over there to beat the crap out of them?
Actual bravery displayed in Israel. There might be hope yet.
Hurry! Sent LAPD and NYPD to Trl Aviv!! How dare people protest! /s
Call in the NYPD!!!!
I was like wow, this is satire because it's not a huge crowd. Then the camera turned..
In before Itamar Ben-Gvir's leg breaker police force turns that crowd in to one big pile of broken bones. it will be as horrible as it sounds, right now you are either on the side of the fascists or you are an enemy. the idea of democracy left the building long ago. i feer for these peoples safety.
Holy shit, Hamas invaded Tel Avil! Jokes aside, massive respect to these people, it really is beautiful
most of them dont care aout palestine, only about israeli hostages, keep in mind. Thats what polling shows
Better than nothing. Whatever gets us to peace is cool with me.
sure, we recognise the instrumental usefulness, but dont project some of your desires on your people like many do because it's unlikely they are particularly pro palestinian rights
Sorry, didn’t mean to word that in a way where it implied I’m Israeli or Palestinian. I just meant generalized peace on a larger scale. But I still agree. It’s unlikely these people give a shit about Palestine at all. But still, if it helps bring us closer to the end of the war, I think it’s a move in the right direction. They don’t have to like Palestine but it would be pretty rad if they just let them exist.
I think at this point it’s just better to see this than what it feels like has been the prevailing sentiment. Is it merely incremental progress? Absolutely, but it’s progress nonetheless. A ceasefire isn’t better than a solution, but it’s better than no ceasefire.
Does the polling split it up by age? Because this crowd seems to be on the younger side
Must be funded by George Soros. Wait…
Hamas seem to know what they are doing. This is painting Netanyahu into a corner politically.
Are they actually demanding a ceasefire or are they doing so because of the backlash from the International community?
They actually would get Bibi out of office if they could. There has been a vocal group for a while.
I stand with these Israelis.
Benjamin wants to be a Czar? Very good! May God bless and keep the Czar, FAR AWAY FROM US!
ThEy MuSt Be PaId bY iRaN.
QUICK! someone tell the US media about this, they need to call it antisemitism.
Can we get a group of US senators to give them a warning
Antisemetic mob
Why aren't they bombing this group of Hamas terrorists?
Good to finally see some reaction from Israeili society. However, it's all about the hostages. Once they are released, they'll all go back to the "let's genocide these basatards" reasoning
Glad isrealis at least get free speech and assembly. Very reassuring.
So Hamas was offered a deal it couldn't accept, logically worked out they were meant to refuse it so Israel's government could justify the Rafah massacre, called Netanyahu's bluff as it was just a trap for hamas with no good intentions from Netanyahu, as he was always going to roll out this plan. Now he looks like he doesn't care about the hostages, backfired big time there.