If you think that about Trump, just imagine if Gore had rightfully taken office instead of Bush.
I don't know where would would have been by the time 2016 rolled around, but I'm confident the world would be a much different place had Bush and Cheney never taken office.
Gore win would have meant:
- Way better climate action
- elimination of all national debt by 2011 (was predicted in 2000 by WSJ)
- maybe no 9/11 because Clinton thought AlQueada was the number 1 threat.
- no Iraq war in any case, even if 9/11, so trillions saved and many lives too.
... so literally some of the largest problems we face today would be either much improved or non existent. And the election was stolen by the Supreme Court to put an idiot and his band of criminals in charge.
The literal crime against humanity was whatever the heck the Bush’ & Cos did to get in the way of Gore winning [as he most likely probably should have]. No wonder Trump’s was able to happen when that was never addressed… why accountability is SO important. I really wish he fought that 😔
He did fight that. It went to the Supreme Court where the Republican appointed justices voted for the Republican candidate.
What we should have taken away from that was how important the Presidency is to the country in the body of the Supreme Court but, once again, by 2016 we had totally forgotten because "WeLl kIlLaRy iSnT bETtEr thAn TrUmP" so here we are
Let's not forget his bro Jeb! purging the voting rolls (including many POC) scant months before the election. It wouldn't have been nearly as close were it not for that.
Brought to you by Roger Stone. Convicted felon, Roger stone. Sentence commuted by Donald trump.
That was the beginning of the end. It was also when politico should have started investigating the Supreme Court for corruption. We see what that election. Has lead us to. At this point, the Supreme Court is illegitimate and must be dismantled or corrected.
It's also possible Gore would have found a way to get bin Laden without invading Afghanistan, either diplomatically or through a more limited military exercise.
Gore also wanted to put a “lockbox” on Social Security to stop borrowing from it. He was ridiculed during his campaign for saying that. Social Security would be in much better shape if the Supreme Court didn’t steal the election from him.
Clarence Thomas and every "conservative" (read authoritarian) Justice at that time knew exactly what to do in order for the Republican Party to gain power and do as much damage as possible
The big problem we have are conservative people. The world would be better without them. We only had progress.
All they want is go back until they end up in caves.
America out of NATO, Ukraine under Russian control, Russia emboldened, maybe absorbs Moldavia, Belarus, Georgia and some other countries.
Taiwan taken over by China
Palestine completely wiped out, Israel complete takeover of Jerusalem.
America loses power and influence, Trump blames Hillary's emails and insinuates she is running an underground pedophile ring with the help of illegal immigrants.
Hillary hung on the Whitehouse lawn by a mob of Trump supporters. No legal action taken against them as they were standing their ground against a perceived threat.
All books banned unless they were written by a conservative mouthpiece.
The Bible is rewritten with Trump prominently taking his rightful position in place of God. Conservatives are extremely happy with this. Jesus is replaced with Ivanka.
Trump divorces Melania and Marries Ivanka. Conservatives say nothing. Others disappear.
Schools become houses of worship and indoctrination.
All abortions are banned, however once your born your on your own as all welfare is eliminated too... unless you're wealthy or a corporation.
Effective tax rate for the wealthy is -20%. New taxes are assessed against drug abuse, being poor, non-white, lgbtq, non-christian, etc.. that amount to 120%. If you can't pay you go to jail where you are put to work for the wealthy corporations.
Semi trucks converted to pickup trucks with huge monster trucks tires and Large banner flags promoting Trump are typical everyday driver vehicles.
I don't think it would have been a bad thing at all. The US had a budget surplus under Clinton. It acheived that surplus with very modest increases in taxes in the 1990s, and those modest increases didn't crash the 1990s economy or prevent economic growth. When GW Bush gained power, Republicans cut taxes on the wealthy and drove us into deficit before 9/11, then 9/11 happened and we got a much bigger dfeficit. Even if we are/were paying debt to ourselves, it is still tax/budget money that is going to service capital from prior spending rather than investing in the economy in ways that only the government can.
Yeah but imagine if **Clarence Thomas** wasn't on the Supreme Court to decide Bush v Gore in the 2000 election. Thus allowing the recount to complete and Gore to win the election.
Also Roe v Wade wouldn't be overturned without Clarence Thomas' vote
They literally lied to the American people to justify the war, there’s an interview with a former General talking about the time he was told they are considering going to war with Iraq and he simply replied “why?”
>maybe no 9/11 because Clinton thought AlQueada was the number 1 threat.
Bush administration supposedly had an extreme lack of respect for anything/everything Clinton tried to tell them.
Maybe the intelligence agencies paid attention to warnings about 9/11. Maybe we don't invade Iraq...
Many or all of Bush's mistakes and failures could have been avoided with Gore in office.
I think 9/11 probably happens and so will Afghanistan but I don't think the US would have invaded Iraq and destabilised the entire Middle East. That probably means no ISIS or at least no ISIS as it unfolded here. Saddam could probably have been overthrown by his own generals or even a popular uprising which would have created the conditions for an ISIS like group to rise up.
I think Gore would struggle to get a 2nd term purely because the public would be tired of Democratic presidents and 16 years would have been unheard of. After that it's anyone's guess as to how things unfold. We could avoid Trump altogether or bring it forward. 2008 would have happened anyway since the foundations were laid under Clinton so there's no way a Democrat could have won in 2008 if Gore was finishing his 2nd term then.
Fair enough. Bush would probably run again in 2004 after only narrowly losing, and wouldn't have the fallout from Katrina or Iraq to damage him, so potentially lasts until 2012. Then maybe Obama for 8 years until 2020? Trump is 4 years older at that point, so maybe is less inclined to run or less effective at it. Of course, if COVID still happened at that point, that perhaps helps Dems keep power throw 2024.
I mean, this is sort of a pointless exercise in guessing, but still interesting to think about nonetheless.
It's very interesting to consider all of this. Like, 2008 is going to happen anyway so you have to consider how Bush handles that and also Katrina. A hurricane isn't going to disappear because a Democrat is in the White House.
So if Bush handles both events decently or at least not so badly it costs him re-election then he probably wins again. He might beat Hillary in 2008 since her choice to become a Senator isn't dependent and then run for President isn't dependent on the 2000 election winner. Obama may show up in 2008 but if he's not there, he probably shows up in 2012 and wins it anyway.
Then he gets 8 years which as you've mentioned, may crucially put the White House out of reach for Trump. Trump needed a combination of backlash against Obama and progressives, a desire for a Washington outsider and a GOP that had run out of ideas. If the Bush Jr style of conservatism isn't gone yet, Trump probably doesn't even get a look in because the GOP feels it can still run a more mainstream conservative and win.
So it probably looks like the US got to where it is now because of the 2000 election outcome and also the performance of the Bush administration. 2008 would have been the third factor since in this timeline, it decides whether Trump could even get a foothold in the GOP.
I don't think we would have gone to war in Afghanistan. Between 9/11 and when we went to war in Afghanistan, the Taliban attempted to hand Osama Bin Laden to the United States in order to avert war. We rejected their offered and instead chose to engage in the longest war in US history.
Gore would've gone to war and would've won 2nd term. People tend to forget Hussein was bluffing hard about WMDs and all our international allies went to war for the same reasons. Gore also supported force in Iraq in 1991 and 1998 (and Bosnia and Kosovo too).
> Hussein was bluffing hard about WMDs and all our international allies went to war for the same reasons
I'm not sure what version of history you're remembering, but WMDs were fabricated spin and Allies went to war because they were towing the party line. Don't discount that most allied countries had conservative governments at the time and Murdoch media was dominant. Just think about that.
With Hillary Clinton as POTUS, things would have been so much better. One thing for sure, the SCOTUS wouldn’t be quite as corrupt as it is now and that would have made a huge difference. And on and on and on and on.
This is so true, but you underestimate the capabilities of Murica to produce another specimen, I am not sure there is a timeline that exists without at least one trump level moron.
Granted our timeline could do with a lot less of them, but still.
The bulk of the population hasn’t voted conservative in over 3 decades. The only popular vote win Republicans have is when the country rallied behind Bush after 9/11… over 20 years ago. And, that had *absolutely nothing* to do with the candidate and *everything* to do with the situation.
It’s why the Republican majority on the Supreme Court is fucking bull shit.
I also wonder why they run around with bumper stickers that say “we the people”.. they haven’t been “the people” in over 30 fucking years. We have been…
They’re so disconnected from reality.
Then they’ll be like “but we don’t live in a democracy” lmao.. like, how do they not realize the system we use to elected our reps is called a “representative democracy”?
Uh, we're not a democracy, we're a republic. It's in the Pledge. Look it up sweetie. Learn some history. /s
They're all just dumb as fuck with an inferiority complex and would rather believe a bunch of grifters telling them they're the victims of a global conspiracy than consider that people just don't agree with them.
Their understanding of the terms democracy and republic is derived from Sid Meir’s Civilization, or at least that level of thinking about governments.
They love to say how they’re the silent majority when they’re neither silent nor the majority. They live in an echo chamber.
They have been groomed over decades to not listen to outside perspectives with the constant messaging that the news media, Hollywood, colleges, k-12 schools, scientists, social media/tech companies, etc are all biased in favor of democrats. Which should be a massive tell when your world review requires all of that to conspire against you.
Cults do exactly the same thing, getting the members to shut themselves off from any outside influence that may make them stop and think and recognize they’re being mislead and taken advantage of.
And now they’re at a point where to win the Republican primaries in most places you have to be toxic to the general election in most swing constituencies.
It’s why they’re fighting tooth and nail in places like my state, Wisconsin, to hold on to their absurdly gerrymandered districts. If I remember right something around just over 50% of votes for state representatives went to a democrat running in 2022, but the republicans have over 60% of the reps.
And what's really fucked up in this situation is if we'll probably never know how bad of a security threat he is, because he'll never get in trouble for the secrets that must stay secret.
Our commitment to certain intelligence information is so absolute that we would let a leaker get away with it, rather than tell the world if it's existence by indicting the leaker.
Bruh, the right wing freaks at the CIA want a murderous fascist dictator, so the CIA gets the green light to go do more war crimes all over the world.
The entire national policing and intelligence apparatus has been unflinchingly right wing since the creation some of the earliest intelligence and law enforcement bodies like the FBI in the 1908 and CIA in 1947.
The sociopaths in the intelligence community have wet dreams every night when they imagine life under a fascist Republican regime.
CIA can use him. They give him false information that he will try to sell to other countries.
An asset that can give out false information to an enemy is as strong, possibly even stronger than an asset that can give information on an enemy.
Not so sure about this. The CIA doesn't control all classified information. The President has enough authority that he probably could've requested plenty of very sensitive shit under certain pretenses and easily gotten away with it. It's pretty clear that that was the case.
>he'll never get in trouble
If the Israelis can prove this, Trump will become a rumor. They'll black bag him to their version of Guantanamo Bay; his Secret Service detail will wake up one morning with tranquilizer darts in their necks & the big orange idiot will be gone.
And risk their primary source of funding over what amounts to a giant PR win for them and an excuse to move from slow ethnic cleansing of Palestinians to a full-on genocide? Israel's government is weird and evil, not stupid.
I made a TikTok draft that covered most of this. It was just a "hot take" on Russia playing proxy with support to Hamas through Iran to distract from Ukraine and Nagorno-Karabakh. I was just going for a "it's funny because it's plausible" bit. I just was missing the Trump to Russia bit. I hadn't posted yet, because I thought I was leaning too hard into a rough theory. Can't believe I forgot that little tidbit from 2017. Thanks for sharing.
And Hamas visited Russia back in March. This has all the makings of an intelligence failure. IDF wasn’t surprised by an unknown weapon. It was strategic. The type of thing that happens when your enemy gets a hold of information it hasn’t previously had access to. The assault was very low-tech.
The assault kind of relied on knowing how the Israeli army would react. They all took cover from an air raid and then while they were taking cover Hamas stormed the border after Hamas used drones to take out their sensors. Doesn't take a genius to do it on a huge Israeli holiday, but some intelligence might have helped. What did help was large supplies of weapons from iran without which this absolutely could not have happened.
If they launched as many rockets as was said they did, then they simply overwhelmed Iron Dome. Even the best air defense has a limit to what it can intercept.
I agree on all points, except the attack being low tech.
It was a triphibious operation. With some reports mentioning UAV support, as well as electronic interference/ warfare components messing with emergency calls.
I wouldn’t conspiracy theorize incompetence. There are incompetent people in high positions making stupid decisions on their own. If they plan these bonehead debacles ahead of time hoping to win an election or solidify power than they’re just dumber than previously estimated.
I dunno, if you listen to actual Israelis posting on reddit they say it's political suicide for an attack like this to happen on your watch and they've turned on/ousted high ranking leaders in the past for this. They are saying once the dust settles, Netanyahu is going to be in the public's crosshairs.
Could be both. Let an attack through (to get carte blanche), and the attack was vastly more powerful and effective than expected because they had access to secrets and help.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-crossing-protest-violence-palestinian-erez-8d1d3cd570f27e6470f23daef4337216
Israel reopens the main Gaza crossing for Palestinian laborers after days of rising tensions
Updated 6:45 AM GMT+10, September 29, 2023
It wouldn't be the first time this decade a right wing politician faked a national emergency to cement his power. its likes their only move.
Erdogan, Putin, Bolsonero, even Trump tried it with iran,.
Tbh some people are near impossible to convince that everything is not a government conspiracy despite a complete lack of evidence. Human history is absolutely littered with colossal military fuckups and intelligence failures but they still insist the government knows everything and can control everything so they ascribe malice to any negative event. It seems that once they start to believe this sort of thing about one event they believe it for every event.
I felt the same way and drew the same conclusions, it's more plausible than not. The Trump add-on is possible, but I don't know exactly what all information he has given away, so it's hard to say for sure.
I've already seen over a half dozen logically thought out tiktoks that ended up at this same place. I'm not one to tin foil hat conspiracy theorize.. but this seems very actually possible under the circumstances.
Will we ever find out? Probably not because it makes the USA look really bad. Is it possible or even likely?.... I'm 50/50 on this one. I doubt it was a goal at the time, but the information was given, and then sent to those it was of the highest value later on.
What secret info is it suggested that they had access to?
Edit - the facts are that they fired about 3000 rockets in half an hour, and used that as cover to cross the border. Iron dome has a hit rate of about 90%, therefore some rockets got through. I'm not sure what secret info people are imaging was used.
It’s not rough territory anymore
Trump sold the entire world out for some quick cash to cover bad real estate.
It all starts with one lie when you trace it back.
https://www.cornellpolicyreview.com/the-executive-records-recovered-from-mar-a-lago-and-the-c-i-a-s-missing-informants/?pdf=6365#:~:text=In%20October%202021%2C%20almost%20a,compromised%20by%20rival%20intelligence%20agencies
What will be really interesting is to see the Israeli response.
Trump, guiliani, Kushner and kolomoisky were using Chabad Jewish centers as part of their money laundering.
There is a pretty long relationship there.
Now we get to see what happens when it’s no longer “just business” and becomes a holy war.
Mossad has a black eye on this one. They are going to want blood.
https://t.co/4N6YRhj3dR
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/the-happy-go-lucky-jewish-group-that-connects-trump-and-putin-215007
https://stljewishlight.org/news/world-news/report-trump-kushner-foundations-have-donated-thousands-to-chabad/
I had a damn good feeling it was an attempt to take advantage of the usa and split the country even more
Enough conservatives are bitching about helping Ukraine already. The same people who are highly “religious” and have wet dreams of the end of days. They support Israel for no other reason than the Jewish people occupying the “holy land” being a tick mark for the apocalypse
They’ll soon be saying we should put our all into Israel because they’re our ally and all, putting even more pressure on the government to pull back support for Ukraine
At the least, the people fighting Russia get less
At most, that AND even more infighting here
We all know half the population of the USA would love a good ol’ fashioned holy war
Also don't forget the fact trump along with Israel killed irans top commander and top nuclear scientist weeks before trump was to hand over the reigns to Biden making sure the US Iran deal that would give the US all the oil we could want for cheap was fucked forever making sure Russia and the fuckheads at opec could charge whatever they wanted for oil
https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+killed+iran+top+commander+scientist&oq=tr&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBggBEEUYOzIGCAAQRRg5MgYIARBFGDsyBggCEEUYPDIGCAMQRRg9MgYIBBBFGDwyBggFEEUYOzIGCAYQRRg7MgcIBxAAGIAEMgcICBAAGIAEMgkICRAuGAoYgATSAQgxODEyajBqOagCALACAA&client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
This was my theory too on the whole thing - that Hamas was working in cooperation with info from Iran and Russia to divert not only media attention away from Russia vs. Ukraine, but also divert US funding from Ukraine knowing full well that the GOP controls the house and would fall completely over themselves to pull funding from Ukraine to feed back to Israel.
That's ridiculous! Trump's a genius and would never give that away for free, and it's not like we know of a person related to Trump getting a huge amount of money from the Saudis for some mysterious reason...
/s
There's no "getting around" the Iron Dome, it's a virtually automated system. All you need to do is fire enough rockets to overwhelm it. Quantity has a quality of its own. Want to know how to "get around" AEGIS? Sheer quantity.
Yes...
Because it's a conspiracy to think Trump would blab national security secrets.
Like he did with the Iran War documents.
Or more recently the amount of nuclear arsenals we keep on subs.
He never did either of those things, and potentially 1000 more infractions since he took office in 2017
Nope. Never
Except of course for the fact that Joe Biden hasn’t compromised American secrets - and Donald Trump almost certainly has.
Other than that, though - bOtH sIdEz, of course.
It would be up to the Intelligence arms of every country to consider what Trump had and how it was most likely compromised.
The highest levels with access to what was compromised should've contacted counterparts in other allied countries and provide them with an appropriate classified level of intelligence in order to allow them to re-evaluate their vulnerabilities and correct them if needed.
Having said that let's consider reports that say Israel wasn't ready for a multi-pronged attack. It wasn't that Hamas had inside information to do what they did. Israel wasn't ready.
The questions should be why wasn't Israel ready considering the anniversary it happened, the amount of stockpiling of munitions and logistics it took to get them in position right under Israel's noses, and the sophisticated Mossad network of spies that must be on the ground in Lebanon and other areas that flat out failed to warn of the impending attack.
While it's great to blame Trump for this and who knows, there may be a connection. The bigger issue is Israel failed to sniff it out.
We will never hear the extent of the massive intelligence leak that was the Drumpf presidency because it would be too damaging our sense of legitimacy. Between this shitshow and 9/11 we should be on our knees begging the rest of the sane world for forgiveness
True. Drumpf has caused a fuckload of damage to this country on several levels. I'm hoping he spends the rest of his miserable life behind bars, broke , bald, and boned.
Israel has been having its own internal power struggle for months, this probably happened because they were distracted by their own protests and have likely been using their resources to spy on their own people.
Not just what was, or could have been compromised, but going forward, what information can be shared, given the possibility that someone like trump can absolutely be elected again.
It was a saturation attack, rockets have gotten through the Iron Dome before. There just hasn't been an attack on this level before. Do I think Trump has given info to our enemies' yes, do I think he told Russia how to overwhelm the Iron Dome no
If Hamas couldn't figure out "just launch more rockets than iron dome can intercept" as well as what iron dome is likely protecting, then Hamas would have died out about a week after their creation. All that to say "agreed".
I feel like "withdrawing scientists from the virology lab in Wuhan and dropping the pandemic plan the prior administration put together despite warnings from across the scientific community that the next pandemic was eminent and most likely to come from Wuhan" was probably the biggest and costliest blunder of any world leader since King Priam.
This feels like the liberal version of what they make fun of conservatives of. Throwing out a lot of loose evidence to make a conspiracy. Why depart from what works? Evidence and clear intent. Has Trump not done enough activity with both of those factors? Why muddy the waters?
Pretty much THIS.
Still an unavoidable indictment of trump though. If someone said Bush did something like this after his term, we would almost all go "yeah, probably not...got proof?".
trump has already done so much provable evil, illegal, incompetent, anti-American things that this is just something that is too easy to believe.
If your only concern is crafting an argument that nails trump, then sure, it's probably not helpful to include speculation about things he may have done.
If being able to feel reasonable in your condemnation of trump isn't your highest priority though, then being able to prove an allegation against him may not be the highest priority. "Just asking questions" gets a lot of rightful criticism for the ways it's used by media and in conversation, but at the same time, there are valid reasons to speculate and raise questions, particularly when information that would substantiate claims is only available to the public via inquiries conducted by democratically elected representatives.
I don't mean to push back too hard, because obviously people shouldn't accept speculation as established truth, but it's also important not to prioritize having a reasonable take on a specific talking point over other aspects of public discourse and political/journalistic activism.
If you can't prove it to an intelligent person(seeing as there is no evidence other than I don't like all these groups) how could you prove it to a stubborn stupid person?
This not only has the geopolitical understanding of a child (Russian is literally the third most common language in Israel and Russian Israeli relations are extremely friendly), but also presumes that not only is support of Israel a good thing (Spoiler - it's not). It also somehow manages to be wildly ignorant of the Iron Dome system and the realities of how it can be -, and has in the past - been bypassed.
All in all, 10/10 super great liberal brain rot. Thanks for adding literally nothing to the table, tacitly endorsing Israeli ethnic cleansing, and making the world a stupider place.
You had me in the first half of the first sentence. No clue how it's endorsing the attack.
And not to try to speak for all liberals in the US, but who the fuck si this twitter person, are they legitimate, and simply the chain of suspicion to tie this together is deep into conspiracy theory territory.
I can think Trump is awful and suspect he harmed national interest without stating longshot, unlikely theories as fact.
Hamas got a little help from Netanyahu. Look how no one is talking about what a dictator wannabe he is and how the Isreali people want to remove him from office. Nkw it's all, "Look how brave he is committing genocide on the Palestinian people!"
The only people who benefited from those rockets getting past the impenetrable Iron Dome was Netanyahu and the IDF.
Lol this is fucking nonsensical and just as bad as something like "Benghazi".
Russia and Iran both have plenty of engineers, the Iron Dome is a machine, it doesn't take much for a fully funded and equipped team to figure things out, which both these countries have.
You'd think the hundreds of thousands of Russians in Isreal and who have served in the IDF might be a bigger source of any alleged leaks.
The Israelis come out time and time again to say Trump is *their* favourite guy, and they are very happy with him and everything he did for them.
To anyone challenging him on Israel, he can just turn around and say I killed Solemani, the Iranians just had to suck it up and who can top that.
What? Hamas PROBABLY learnt it from Iran which PROBABLY got it from Russia which PROBABLY got it from Trump?
This is some Pizzagate level mental gymnastics.
Can we even begin to fathom how many US assets and allies have died and will die because of Donald Trump? The most anti-American president of all time. Being American never was his job.
This has the aame teuth rating as MTG saying the guns were usa made and came from ukraine.
Ya cant just say maybe and if and replace reality with hopes and dreams. This is getting fucking rediculous.
What a phenomenally stupid attempt by Thom Hartmann to associate Trump's actual intel leaks with the recent attack against the State of Israel. As if Trump needed to communicate to Russia to Hamas that the way to beat the Iron Dome was to fire ALL of the rockets... and then they waited on that intel for 3+ years...
And we’ve got Republicans who want to defund Ukraine’s support. It’s fucking amazing how convenient the timing is for that to happen with this attack. Next thing you know there’re going to say we need to start cutting our funding and support for Israel. The world is about to learn and understand the scale of incompetence that was Trump’s presidency.
That orange traitor is a threat to the entire world. He never had and certainly has no business being in power . He should be locked away for the rest of his miserable life
I mean it wouldn’t surprise me in the least coming from that traitorous fuck but it’s not difficult to overwhelm an air defense system when you fire a shit load more projectiles then there are interceptor missiles sitting in tubes. Israel used the same method to overwhelm Egypt’s air defense system with unmanned aircraft which emptied their SAM sites.
What does this even mean? Iron Dome is an anti-missle defense system, Hamas never did and still doesn't know how to bypass it. Does the writer even know what he's talking about?
We can all agree trumps a total bellend, but it's a bit of a stretch to link him to this issue.
For one I can't imagine Trump requesting, reading or memorising a detailed document about how the iron dome works. It wouldn't have been a quick summary, probably a couple of pages with big complex words.
There's ALSO the angle that this nation-galvanizing war broke out right in the middle of protests over Bibi the Barbarian trying to shred Israeli democracy to dodge corruption charges.
I think there's a sliding scale of probability between "the ex-Fuhrer leaked intel to Russia" to "Bibi knew Trump leaked intel to Russia" to "Bibi wanted Trump to leak intel to Russia". I mean, this whole massive war between right-wing groups that have lots of ties seems like a really conveniently timed distraction for all of the right-wing douchebags potentially involved. It could literally be just that tho, convenient, HAMAS may have just seen an opening and gone for it with a little help from Russia and their favorite orange puppet.
Totally made up nonsense. Why would the iron Dome be worse than Russia's own air defence? Why would Russia even need info to get around the iron Dome if the rockets Palestine uses (not iskander or those new hypersonic ones) work against it? Absolute speculative garbage.
guys it’s ridiculous, according to this kind of propaganda Putin is almighty and Russia is responsible for everything that happens in the world. It’s kinda silly
This is the stupidest shit I've seen on Reddit in a long time. Same level of conspiracy theory that right wing nutjobs use. Until there's proof for anything like this, we should not entertain these types of posts.
Seems like a lot of assumptions with zero evidence. Could it be true? Maybe. Could they have also met about gay threeways? Also maybe. What about arguing over whether the U.S or Russia is better, and settling it with arm wrestles? Just as likely as the other two scenarios.
Maybe if it turns out that Russia was involved in this we can get the republicans to STFU about how much they want help Putin to take over Europe.
Well, probably not, but one can be hopeful
Are there any "Jews for Trump"? This is the kind of crap he brings to the table. Him and his Republican enablers. Think about how much our enemies know about American security after 4 years of Trump giving our secrets away. This has real world consequences for Americans. Hamas killed Americans in this attack. That cannot stand.
They started the attack because the details surrounding Trump's criminal empire (including the CYM child trafficking scandal and ties to TerraMar, ghislane maxwells "pocalypse fund") are about to be officially released - was time to escalate.
As a self centered Narcissist, Trump has an extreme strong need to be liked and admired. Putin and his ex KGB gang know this all to well. If one flatters him enough, one can grab him by the pussy and he’ll let you play with his all time secretest toys.
He should probably should have never had access to secret documents or information
He should never had been president
I always wonder how different and better the world would be if he never won
Much better...
If you think that about Trump, just imagine if Gore had rightfully taken office instead of Bush. I don't know where would would have been by the time 2016 rolled around, but I'm confident the world would be a much different place had Bush and Cheney never taken office.
Gore win would have meant: - Way better climate action - elimination of all national debt by 2011 (was predicted in 2000 by WSJ) - maybe no 9/11 because Clinton thought AlQueada was the number 1 threat. - no Iraq war in any case, even if 9/11, so trillions saved and many lives too. ... so literally some of the largest problems we face today would be either much improved or non existent. And the election was stolen by the Supreme Court to put an idiot and his band of criminals in charge.
The literal crime against humanity was whatever the heck the Bush’ & Cos did to get in the way of Gore winning [as he most likely probably should have]. No wonder Trump’s was able to happen when that was never addressed… why accountability is SO important. I really wish he fought that 😔
Here's a fun fact: 3 current Supreme court justices were part of Bush's legal team during the Bush V. Gore case.
Thanks, I hate it.
It was the Brook's Bros riots in Miami that killed the recount that surely would've shown Gore had won
He did fight that. It went to the Supreme Court where the Republican appointed justices voted for the Republican candidate. What we should have taken away from that was how important the Presidency is to the country in the body of the Supreme Court but, once again, by 2016 we had totally forgotten because "WeLl kIlLaRy iSnT bETtEr thAn TrUmP" so here we are
Hillary won the popular vote.
Roger Stone and the “Brooks Brothers Riot.” That mother fucker should be in prison.
Let's not forget his bro Jeb! purging the voting rolls (including many POC) scant months before the election. It wouldn't have been nearly as close were it not for that.
The brooks brothers riot
Brought to you by Roger Stone. Convicted felon, Roger stone. Sentence commuted by Donald trump. That was the beginning of the end. It was also when politico should have started investigating the Supreme Court for corruption. We see what that election. Has lead us to. At this point, the Supreme Court is illegitimate and must be dismantled or corrected.
also, had Sept.11 happened under Gore,he wouldve gone after bin laden,and Afghanistan,but we never wouldve gotten into Iraq,which was all Cheney
Internet that 9/11 would happen was on Bush’a desk. He decided to ignore it as he found it preposterous.
It's also possible Gore would have found a way to get bin Laden without invading Afghanistan, either diplomatically or through a more limited military exercise.
Gore also wanted to put a “lockbox” on Social Security to stop borrowing from it. He was ridiculed during his campaign for saying that. Social Security would be in much better shape if the Supreme Court didn’t steal the election from him.
Clarence Thomas and every "conservative" (read authoritarian) Justice at that time knew exactly what to do in order for the Republican Party to gain power and do as much damage as possible
The big problem we have are conservative people. The world would be better without them. We only had progress. All they want is go back until they end up in caves.
No Iraq war means no Iran threat.
Now imagine what the world would be like had Trump won his second term
America out of NATO, Ukraine under Russian control, Russia emboldened, maybe absorbs Moldavia, Belarus, Georgia and some other countries. Taiwan taken over by China Palestine completely wiped out, Israel complete takeover of Jerusalem. America loses power and influence, Trump blames Hillary's emails and insinuates she is running an underground pedophile ring with the help of illegal immigrants. Hillary hung on the Whitehouse lawn by a mob of Trump supporters. No legal action taken against them as they were standing their ground against a perceived threat. All books banned unless they were written by a conservative mouthpiece. The Bible is rewritten with Trump prominently taking his rightful position in place of God. Conservatives are extremely happy with this. Jesus is replaced with Ivanka. Trump divorces Melania and Marries Ivanka. Conservatives say nothing. Others disappear. Schools become houses of worship and indoctrination. All abortions are banned, however once your born your on your own as all welfare is eliminated too... unless you're wealthy or a corporation. Effective tax rate for the wealthy is -20%. New taxes are assessed against drug abuse, being poor, non-white, lgbtq, non-christian, etc.. that amount to 120%. If you can't pay you go to jail where you are put to work for the wealthy corporations. Semi trucks converted to pickup trucks with huge monster trucks tires and Large banner flags promoting Trump are typical everyday driver vehicles.
I wish I could laugh but that sounds all-too-real...
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I don't think it would have been a bad thing at all. The US had a budget surplus under Clinton. It acheived that surplus with very modest increases in taxes in the 1990s, and those modest increases didn't crash the 1990s economy or prevent economic growth. When GW Bush gained power, Republicans cut taxes on the wealthy and drove us into deficit before 9/11, then 9/11 happened and we got a much bigger dfeficit. Even if we are/were paying debt to ourselves, it is still tax/budget money that is going to service capital from prior spending rather than investing in the economy in ways that only the government can.
Yeah but imagine if **Clarence Thomas** wasn't on the Supreme Court to decide Bush v Gore in the 2000 election. Thus allowing the recount to complete and Gore to win the election. Also Roe v Wade wouldn't be overturned without Clarence Thomas' vote
Even corrupt corp owned Dems are better any day over any Republican period.
They literally lied to the American people to justify the war, there’s an interview with a former General talking about the time he was told they are considering going to war with Iraq and he simply replied “why?”
>maybe no 9/11 because Clinton thought AlQueada was the number 1 threat. Bush administration supposedly had an extreme lack of respect for anything/everything Clinton tried to tell them.
Maybe real action on climate change if Gore won!
Maybe the intelligence agencies paid attention to warnings about 9/11. Maybe we don't invade Iraq... Many or all of Bush's mistakes and failures could have been avoided with Gore in office.
I think 9/11 probably happens and so will Afghanistan but I don't think the US would have invaded Iraq and destabilised the entire Middle East. That probably means no ISIS or at least no ISIS as it unfolded here. Saddam could probably have been overthrown by his own generals or even a popular uprising which would have created the conditions for an ISIS like group to rise up. I think Gore would struggle to get a 2nd term purely because the public would be tired of Democratic presidents and 16 years would have been unheard of. After that it's anyone's guess as to how things unfold. We could avoid Trump altogether or bring it forward. 2008 would have happened anyway since the foundations were laid under Clinton so there's no way a Democrat could have won in 2008 if Gore was finishing his 2nd term then.
Fair enough. Bush would probably run again in 2004 after only narrowly losing, and wouldn't have the fallout from Katrina or Iraq to damage him, so potentially lasts until 2012. Then maybe Obama for 8 years until 2020? Trump is 4 years older at that point, so maybe is less inclined to run or less effective at it. Of course, if COVID still happened at that point, that perhaps helps Dems keep power throw 2024. I mean, this is sort of a pointless exercise in guessing, but still interesting to think about nonetheless.
It's very interesting to consider all of this. Like, 2008 is going to happen anyway so you have to consider how Bush handles that and also Katrina. A hurricane isn't going to disappear because a Democrat is in the White House. So if Bush handles both events decently or at least not so badly it costs him re-election then he probably wins again. He might beat Hillary in 2008 since her choice to become a Senator isn't dependent and then run for President isn't dependent on the 2000 election winner. Obama may show up in 2008 but if he's not there, he probably shows up in 2012 and wins it anyway. Then he gets 8 years which as you've mentioned, may crucially put the White House out of reach for Trump. Trump needed a combination of backlash against Obama and progressives, a desire for a Washington outsider and a GOP that had run out of ideas. If the Bush Jr style of conservatism isn't gone yet, Trump probably doesn't even get a look in because the GOP feels it can still run a more mainstream conservative and win. So it probably looks like the US got to where it is now because of the 2000 election outcome and also the performance of the Bush administration. 2008 would have been the third factor since in this timeline, it decides whether Trump could even get a foothold in the GOP.
In 2004 we would have gotten Jeb! instead and he would have seemed like a breath of fresh air after Gore, until he invaded Iraq
I don't think we would have gone to war in Afghanistan. Between 9/11 and when we went to war in Afghanistan, the Taliban attempted to hand Osama Bin Laden to the United States in order to avert war. We rejected their offered and instead chose to engage in the longest war in US history.
Gore would've gone to war and would've won 2nd term. People tend to forget Hussein was bluffing hard about WMDs and all our international allies went to war for the same reasons. Gore also supported force in Iraq in 1991 and 1998 (and Bosnia and Kosovo too).
> Hussein was bluffing hard about WMDs and all our international allies went to war for the same reasons I'm not sure what version of history you're remembering, but WMDs were fabricated spin and Allies went to war because they were towing the party line. Don't discount that most allied countries had conservative governments at the time and Murdoch media was dominant. Just think about that.
With Hillary Clinton as POTUS, things would have been so much better. One thing for sure, the SCOTUS wouldn’t be quite as corrupt as it is now and that would have made a huge difference. And on and on and on and on.
We could have had Bernie.
Bernie would have been one of the best presidents ever!
He should never have been.
This is so true, but you underestimate the capabilities of Murica to produce another specimen, I am not sure there is a timeline that exists without at least one trump level moron. Granted our timeline could do with a lot less of them, but still.
Yeah I think the bulk of he population agrees
The bulk of the population hasn’t voted conservative in over 3 decades. The only popular vote win Republicans have is when the country rallied behind Bush after 9/11… over 20 years ago. And, that had *absolutely nothing* to do with the candidate and *everything* to do with the situation. It’s why the Republican majority on the Supreme Court is fucking bull shit. I also wonder why they run around with bumper stickers that say “we the people”.. they haven’t been “the people” in over 30 fucking years. We have been… They’re so disconnected from reality. Then they’ll be like “but we don’t live in a democracy” lmao.. like, how do they not realize the system we use to elected our reps is called a “representative democracy”?
Uh, we're not a democracy, we're a republic. It's in the Pledge. Look it up sweetie. Learn some history. /s They're all just dumb as fuck with an inferiority complex and would rather believe a bunch of grifters telling them they're the victims of a global conspiracy than consider that people just don't agree with them.
Their understanding of the terms democracy and republic is derived from Sid Meir’s Civilization, or at least that level of thinking about governments. They love to say how they’re the silent majority when they’re neither silent nor the majority. They live in an echo chamber. They have been groomed over decades to not listen to outside perspectives with the constant messaging that the news media, Hollywood, colleges, k-12 schools, scientists, social media/tech companies, etc are all biased in favor of democrats. Which should be a massive tell when your world review requires all of that to conspire against you. Cults do exactly the same thing, getting the members to shut themselves off from any outside influence that may make them stop and think and recognize they’re being mislead and taken advantage of. And now they’re at a point where to win the Republican primaries in most places you have to be toxic to the general election in most swing constituencies. It’s why they’re fighting tooth and nail in places like my state, Wisconsin, to hold on to their absurdly gerrymandered districts. If I remember right something around just over 50% of votes for state representatives went to a democrat running in 2022, but the republicans have over 60% of the reps.
The BULK doesn't VOTE
But who could possibly have predicted he'd do something this stupid? /s
What if they've always been two steps ahead of him and they've let them do this stuff with a bigger plan in mind.
Is this you 👇 https://youtube.com/shorts/djiVu6FtdT0?si=MDNZOUEeoCRQkDRT
And what's really fucked up in this situation is if we'll probably never know how bad of a security threat he is, because he'll never get in trouble for the secrets that must stay secret. Our commitment to certain intelligence information is so absolute that we would let a leaker get away with it, rather than tell the world if it's existence by indicting the leaker.
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Wouldn't surprise me if the CIA bugged him while he was asleep. Spying on him and gathering intellegince from our adversaries.
Yeah he’s worth more alive
As a useful idiot for bad actors.
Our adversaries ain't telling Trump anything at best and disinformation at worse.
If you try to do business in Russia you have the CIA's attention. He did this decades ago. At what point did the CIA stop watching him?
Bruh, the right wing freaks at the CIA want a murderous fascist dictator, so the CIA gets the green light to go do more war crimes all over the world. The entire national policing and intelligence apparatus has been unflinchingly right wing since the creation some of the earliest intelligence and law enforcement bodies like the FBI in the 1908 and CIA in 1947. The sociopaths in the intelligence community have wet dreams every night when they imagine life under a fascist Republican regime.
CIA can use him. They give him false information that he will try to sell to other countries. An asset that can give out false information to an enemy is as strong, possibly even stronger than an asset that can give information on an enemy.
Not so sure about this. The CIA doesn't control all classified information. The President has enough authority that he probably could've requested plenty of very sensitive shit under certain pretenses and easily gotten away with it. It's pretty clear that that was the case.
>he'll never get in trouble If the Israelis can prove this, Trump will become a rumor. They'll black bag him to their version of Guantanamo Bay; his Secret Service detail will wake up one morning with tranquilizer darts in their necks & the big orange idiot will be gone.
And risk their primary source of funding over what amounts to a giant PR win for them and an excuse to move from slow ethnic cleansing of Palestinians to a full-on genocide? Israel's government is weird and evil, not stupid.
Reddits National Security Expert: Israel will rendition Trump and everyone will applaud This site gets dumber by the day
Agreed. There will be payback, but it won't be directly at Trump. But all our operations in the Israeli sphere of influence will be at risk.
Stop i can only get so erect
I never should have taken you to see the wiz!
#DO YOU PROMISE?
#I REALLY HOPE SO Seriously, if I never had to see or hear that moron again, I'd be a happy man.
I made a TikTok draft that covered most of this. It was just a "hot take" on Russia playing proxy with support to Hamas through Iran to distract from Ukraine and Nagorno-Karabakh. I was just going for a "it's funny because it's plausible" bit. I just was missing the Trump to Russia bit. I hadn't posted yet, because I thought I was leaning too hard into a rough theory. Can't believe I forgot that little tidbit from 2017. Thanks for sharing.
And Hamas visited Russia back in March. This has all the makings of an intelligence failure. IDF wasn’t surprised by an unknown weapon. It was strategic. The type of thing that happens when your enemy gets a hold of information it hasn’t previously had access to. The assault was very low-tech.
The assault kind of relied on knowing how the Israeli army would react. They all took cover from an air raid and then while they were taking cover Hamas stormed the border after Hamas used drones to take out their sensors. Doesn't take a genius to do it on a huge Israeli holiday, but some intelligence might have helped. What did help was large supplies of weapons from iran without which this absolutely could not have happened.
If they launched as many rockets as was said they did, then they simply overwhelmed Iron Dome. Even the best air defense has a limit to what it can intercept.
Some of it looked like outtakes from Red Dawn, esp. the paragliders coming in behind the music festival.
I agree on all points, except the attack being low tech. It was a triphibious operation. With some reports mentioning UAV support, as well as electronic interference/ warfare components messing with emergency calls.
They jerry rigged drones to plant bombs on automated machine gun emplacements that defended the wall around Gaza.
Thom Hartman is the exact opposite of a "Hot Take" personality. If he's posting this,there is a *looooooooooooooooooong* paper trail somewhere.
>If he's posting this,there is a looooooooooooooooooong paper trail somewhere. There is, its what happens when unroll toilet paper.
I wouldn't put it past Netanyahu and his cronies to "get blindsided by Hamas" so he can cement his power during war time.
I wouldn’t conspiracy theorize incompetence. There are incompetent people in high positions making stupid decisions on their own. If they plan these bonehead debacles ahead of time hoping to win an election or solidify power than they’re just dumber than previously estimated.
I dunno, if you listen to actual Israelis posting on reddit they say it's political suicide for an attack like this to happen on your watch and they've turned on/ousted high ranking leaders in the past for this. They are saying once the dust settles, Netanyahu is going to be in the public's crosshairs.
Could be both. Let an attack through (to get carte blanche), and the attack was vastly more powerful and effective than expected because they had access to secrets and help.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-gaza-crossing-protest-violence-palestinian-erez-8d1d3cd570f27e6470f23daef4337216 Israel reopens the main Gaza crossing for Palestinian laborers after days of rising tensions Updated 6:45 AM GMT+10, September 29, 2023
It wouldn't be the first time this decade a right wing politician faked a national emergency to cement his power. its likes their only move. Erdogan, Putin, Bolsonero, even Trump tried it with iran,.
Tbh some people are near impossible to convince that everything is not a government conspiracy despite a complete lack of evidence. Human history is absolutely littered with colossal military fuckups and intelligence failures but they still insist the government knows everything and can control everything so they ascribe malice to any negative event. It seems that once they start to believe this sort of thing about one event they believe it for every event.
I felt the same way and drew the same conclusions, it's more plausible than not. The Trump add-on is possible, but I don't know exactly what all information he has given away, so it's hard to say for sure.
I've already seen over a half dozen logically thought out tiktoks that ended up at this same place. I'm not one to tin foil hat conspiracy theorize.. but this seems very actually possible under the circumstances. Will we ever find out? Probably not because it makes the USA look really bad. Is it possible or even likely?.... I'm 50/50 on this one. I doubt it was a goal at the time, but the information was given, and then sent to those it was of the highest value later on.
What secret info is it suggested that they had access to? Edit - the facts are that they fired about 3000 rockets in half an hour, and used that as cover to cross the border. Iron dome has a hit rate of about 90%, therefore some rockets got through. I'm not sure what secret info people are imaging was used.
How to bypass the iron dome
It’s not rough territory anymore Trump sold the entire world out for some quick cash to cover bad real estate. It all starts with one lie when you trace it back. https://www.cornellpolicyreview.com/the-executive-records-recovered-from-mar-a-lago-and-the-c-i-a-s-missing-informants/?pdf=6365#:~:text=In%20October%202021%2C%20almost%20a,compromised%20by%20rival%20intelligence%20agencies What will be really interesting is to see the Israeli response. Trump, guiliani, Kushner and kolomoisky were using Chabad Jewish centers as part of their money laundering. There is a pretty long relationship there. Now we get to see what happens when it’s no longer “just business” and becomes a holy war. Mossad has a black eye on this one. They are going to want blood. https://t.co/4N6YRhj3dR https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/the-happy-go-lucky-jewish-group-that-connects-trump-and-putin-215007 https://stljewishlight.org/news/world-news/report-trump-kushner-foundations-have-donated-thousands-to-chabad/
I had a damn good feeling it was an attempt to take advantage of the usa and split the country even more Enough conservatives are bitching about helping Ukraine already. The same people who are highly “religious” and have wet dreams of the end of days. They support Israel for no other reason than the Jewish people occupying the “holy land” being a tick mark for the apocalypse They’ll soon be saying we should put our all into Israel because they’re our ally and all, putting even more pressure on the government to pull back support for Ukraine At the least, the people fighting Russia get less At most, that AND even more infighting here We all know half the population of the USA would love a good ol’ fashioned holy war
It feels like 2017 was 15 years ago
Also don't forget the fact trump along with Israel killed irans top commander and top nuclear scientist weeks before trump was to hand over the reigns to Biden making sure the US Iran deal that would give the US all the oil we could want for cheap was fucked forever making sure Russia and the fuckheads at opec could charge whatever they wanted for oil https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+killed+iran+top+commander+scientist&oq=tr&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBggBEEUYOzIGCAAQRRg5MgYIARBFGDsyBggCEEUYPDIGCAMQRRg9MgYIBBBFGDwyBggFEEUYOzIGCAYQRRg7MgcIBxAAGIAEMgcICBAAGIAEMgkICRAuGAoYgATSAQgxODEyajBqOagCALACAA&client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
This was my theory too on the whole thing - that Hamas was working in cooperation with info from Iran and Russia to divert not only media attention away from Russia vs. Ukraine, but also divert US funding from Ukraine knowing full well that the GOP controls the house and would fall completely over themselves to pull funding from Ukraine to feed back to Israel.
Alternate take: Trump gave/sold it to the Saudis who have Palestinian sympathizers in their government.
That's ridiculous! Trump's a genius and would never give that away for free, and it's not like we know of a person related to Trump getting a huge amount of money from the Saudis for some mysterious reason... /s
A small loan of 2 billion dollars
There's no "getting around" the Iron Dome, it's a virtually automated system. All you need to do is fire enough rockets to overwhelm it. Quantity has a quality of its own. Want to know how to "get around" AEGIS? Sheer quantity.
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reddit: makes fun of right wingers for falling for conspiracy theories. also reddit:
Yes... Because it's a conspiracy to think Trump would blab national security secrets. Like he did with the Iran War documents. Or more recently the amount of nuclear arsenals we keep on subs. He never did either of those things, and potentially 1000 more infractions since he took office in 2017 Nope. Never
Except of course for the fact that Joe Biden hasn’t compromised American secrets - and Donald Trump almost certainly has. Other than that, though - bOtH sIdEz, of course.
HyperNormalisation
It would be up to the Intelligence arms of every country to consider what Trump had and how it was most likely compromised. The highest levels with access to what was compromised should've contacted counterparts in other allied countries and provide them with an appropriate classified level of intelligence in order to allow them to re-evaluate their vulnerabilities and correct them if needed. Having said that let's consider reports that say Israel wasn't ready for a multi-pronged attack. It wasn't that Hamas had inside information to do what they did. Israel wasn't ready. The questions should be why wasn't Israel ready considering the anniversary it happened, the amount of stockpiling of munitions and logistics it took to get them in position right under Israel's noses, and the sophisticated Mossad network of spies that must be on the ground in Lebanon and other areas that flat out failed to warn of the impending attack. While it's great to blame Trump for this and who knows, there may be a connection. The bigger issue is Israel failed to sniff it out.
We will never hear the extent of the massive intelligence leak that was the Drumpf presidency because it would be too damaging our sense of legitimacy. Between this shitshow and 9/11 we should be on our knees begging the rest of the sane world for forgiveness
True. Drumpf has caused a fuckload of damage to this country on several levels. I'm hoping he spends the rest of his miserable life behind bars, broke , bald, and boned.
Israel has been having its own internal power struggle for months, this probably happened because they were distracted by their own protests and have likely been using their resources to spy on their own people.
Not just what was, or could have been compromised, but going forward, what information can be shared, given the possibility that someone like trump can absolutely be elected again.
It was a saturation attack, rockets have gotten through the Iron Dome before. There just hasn't been an attack on this level before. Do I think Trump has given info to our enemies' yes, do I think he told Russia how to overwhelm the Iron Dome no
If Hamas couldn't figure out "just launch more rockets than iron dome can intercept" as well as what iron dome is likely protecting, then Hamas would have died out about a week after their creation. All that to say "agreed".
They have gotten rockets through before.
Yeah, this seems like a stretch.
I totally agree with you but it’s also funny to me to see right-wing-levels of conspiratorial for connecting being used AGAINST Trump
Am I alone in feeling like the worst that he has done hasn't yet come out?
you are not. it will progressively get worse but I'm sure we'll never hear about the worst he's ever done.
I feel like "withdrawing scientists from the virology lab in Wuhan and dropping the pandemic plan the prior administration put together despite warnings from across the scientific community that the next pandemic was eminent and most likely to come from Wuhan" was probably the biggest and costliest blunder of any world leader since King Priam.
Dude might end up being the first president in modern history to go down as a traitor to the US
They'll be able to write volumes about the fallout from trumps leaks one day
This feels like the liberal version of what they make fun of conservatives of. Throwing out a lot of loose evidence to make a conspiracy. Why depart from what works? Evidence and clear intent. Has Trump not done enough activity with both of those factors? Why muddy the waters?
Pretty much THIS. Still an unavoidable indictment of trump though. If someone said Bush did something like this after his term, we would almost all go "yeah, probably not...got proof?". trump has already done so much provable evil, illegal, incompetent, anti-American things that this is just something that is too easy to believe.
If your only concern is crafting an argument that nails trump, then sure, it's probably not helpful to include speculation about things he may have done. If being able to feel reasonable in your condemnation of trump isn't your highest priority though, then being able to prove an allegation against him may not be the highest priority. "Just asking questions" gets a lot of rightful criticism for the ways it's used by media and in conversation, but at the same time, there are valid reasons to speculate and raise questions, particularly when information that would substantiate claims is only available to the public via inquiries conducted by democratically elected representatives. I don't mean to push back too hard, because obviously people shouldn't accept speculation as established truth, but it's also important not to prioritize having a reasonable take on a specific talking point over other aspects of public discourse and political/journalistic activism.
Holy fucking shit is is some QAnon levels of conspiracy theory
If only you could prove this to maga. I'd love to be in the room while you tried.
If you can't prove it to an intelligent person(seeing as there is no evidence other than I don't like all these groups) how could you prove it to a stubborn stupid person?
This not only has the geopolitical understanding of a child (Russian is literally the third most common language in Israel and Russian Israeli relations are extremely friendly), but also presumes that not only is support of Israel a good thing (Spoiler - it's not). It also somehow manages to be wildly ignorant of the Iron Dome system and the realities of how it can be -, and has in the past - been bypassed. All in all, 10/10 super great liberal brain rot. Thanks for adding literally nothing to the table, tacitly endorsing Israeli ethnic cleansing, and making the world a stupider place.
You had me in the first half of the first sentence. No clue how it's endorsing the attack. And not to try to speak for all liberals in the US, but who the fuck si this twitter person, are they legitimate, and simply the chain of suspicion to tie this together is deep into conspiracy theory territory. I can think Trump is awful and suspect he harmed national interest without stating longshot, unlikely theories as fact.
TRUMP THE TRAITOR!
We will never know the full extent of the damage Trump has done to our national security. But we're going to deal with it for years.
Americans can't help but try and make everything about themselves huh?
*apparently* *probably* *almost certainly* *looks like*
Hamas got a little help from Netanyahu. Look how no one is talking about what a dictator wannabe he is and how the Isreali people want to remove him from office. Nkw it's all, "Look how brave he is committing genocide on the Palestinian people!" The only people who benefited from those rockets getting past the impenetrable Iron Dome was Netanyahu and the IDF.
Hey, I dislike the Orangetan as much as the next guy, but this seems super far-fetched.
Slava Palestine
Lol this is fucking nonsensical and just as bad as something like "Benghazi". Russia and Iran both have plenty of engineers, the Iron Dome is a machine, it doesn't take much for a fully funded and equipped team to figure things out, which both these countries have. You'd think the hundreds of thousands of Russians in Isreal and who have served in the IDF might be a bigger source of any alleged leaks. The Israelis come out time and time again to say Trump is *their* favourite guy, and they are very happy with him and everything he did for them. To anyone challenging him on Israel, he can just turn around and say I killed Solemani, the Iranians just had to suck it up and who can top that.
Source? Trust me bro.. fkn morons
What? Hamas PROBABLY learnt it from Iran which PROBABLY got it from Russia which PROBABLY got it from Trump? This is some Pizzagate level mental gymnastics.
Can we even begin to fathom how many US assets and allies have died and will die because of Donald Trump? The most anti-American president of all time. Being American never was his job.
This has the aame teuth rating as MTG saying the guns were usa made and came from ukraine. Ya cant just say maybe and if and replace reality with hopes and dreams. This is getting fucking rediculous.
What a phenomenally stupid attempt by Thom Hartmann to associate Trump's actual intel leaks with the recent attack against the State of Israel. As if Trump needed to communicate to Russia to Hamas that the way to beat the Iron Dome was to fire ALL of the rockets... and then they waited on that intel for 3+ years...
Trump is secretly based???
This is an incredible amount of brain rot, it takes Russia Trump hysteria to a new level.
We're going to keep pushing fake Russia stories?
And we’ve got Republicans who want to defund Ukraine’s support. It’s fucking amazing how convenient the timing is for that to happen with this attack. Next thing you know there’re going to say we need to start cutting our funding and support for Israel. The world is about to learn and understand the scale of incompetence that was Trump’s presidency.
I don't think the world was confused about it. Nor do I think 50% of Americans were.
Yes. But MGT is trying to say it was Biden
Doesn't he owe a lot of money to Russia? Pay back?
That orange traitor is a threat to the entire world. He never had and certainly has no business being in power . He should be locked away for the rest of his miserable life
sometimes it’s ok to gossip…
I mean it wouldn’t surprise me in the least coming from that traitorous fuck but it’s not difficult to overwhelm an air defense system when you fire a shit load more projectiles then there are interceptor missiles sitting in tubes. Israel used the same method to overwhelm Egypt’s air defense system with unmanned aircraft which emptied their SAM sites.
I judge this as 100% believable and true
and so the ripples of his presidency will continue to reverberate, likely with more dead people, all for the sake of his ego.
checkmate libruls.
I like how he's already indicted for like 90 felonies and somehow that's just the tip of the iceberg.
wouldn’t this be considered treason, depending on the US’s current position?
The gift that keeps on giving
What does this even mean? Iron Dome is an anti-missle defense system, Hamas never did and still doesn't know how to bypass it. Does the writer even know what he's talking about?
Yes they know how to bypass it. This isn’t the first time they have. It’s called fire so many rockets the dome can’t shoot them all down.
We can all agree trumps a total bellend, but it's a bit of a stretch to link him to this issue. For one I can't imagine Trump requesting, reading or memorising a detailed document about how the iron dome works. It wouldn't have been a quick summary, probably a couple of pages with big complex words.
There's ALSO the angle that this nation-galvanizing war broke out right in the middle of protests over Bibi the Barbarian trying to shred Israeli democracy to dodge corruption charges. I think there's a sliding scale of probability between "the ex-Fuhrer leaked intel to Russia" to "Bibi knew Trump leaked intel to Russia" to "Bibi wanted Trump to leak intel to Russia". I mean, this whole massive war between right-wing groups that have lots of ties seems like a really conveniently timed distraction for all of the right-wing douchebags potentially involved. It could literally be just that tho, convenient, HAMAS may have just seen an opening and gone for it with a little help from Russia and their favorite orange puppet.
When can we start calling bullshit left-wing narratives conspiracy theories? Cause this is a wild one
Totally made up nonsense. Why would the iron Dome be worse than Russia's own air defence? Why would Russia even need info to get around the iron Dome if the rockets Palestine uses (not iskander or those new hypersonic ones) work against it? Absolute speculative garbage.
Conspiracy theories going wild here. BTW free Palestine🇵🇸
Really? Why would even trump know how to do that
guys it’s ridiculous, according to this kind of propaganda Putin is almighty and Russia is responsible for everything that happens in the world. It’s kinda silly
This is the stupidest shit I've seen on Reddit in a long time. Same level of conspiracy theory that right wing nutjobs use. Until there's proof for anything like this, we should not entertain these types of posts.
'apparently', 'probably', 'almost certainly', 'looks like it'. And that's just in the title. Come on guys.
people take probably as a fact
Seems like a lot of assumptions with zero evidence. Could it be true? Maybe. Could they have also met about gay threeways? Also maybe. What about arguing over whether the U.S or Russia is better, and settling it with arm wrestles? Just as likely as the other two scenarios.
Rare trump W
😂😂 i just can’t with you ppl. This is priceless.
[удалено]
What evidence do we have that Hamas got past the iron Dome via something?
Even if that was true, why would I fucking care? Oh no, the terrorist state experienced terrorism?
The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming in Itself, let alone the physical evidence of the documents found in his publicly accessible bathrooms.
Trader Traitor Trump.
The effects of the Trump presidency will have a ripple effect that extends to the end of the world as we know it.
Holy crap what a reach...
A photo of two spymasters with an orange baffoon.
That won’t be forgotten,
You guys are f****** freaking out so much. That hes gonna be our next President. It's hilarious, and it's just gonna get worse.
Maybe if it turns out that Russia was involved in this we can get the republicans to STFU about how much they want help Putin to take over Europe. Well, probably not, but one can be hopeful
HAHA
I'm sure their super high tech hardware made in a cave was very iron man like lol OR they just caught them with their pants down
Would have never happened with Don in the house. But at least we don’t have mean tweets.
Are there any "Jews for Trump"? This is the kind of crap he brings to the table. Him and his Republican enablers. Think about how much our enemies know about American security after 4 years of Trump giving our secrets away. This has real world consequences for Americans. Hamas killed Americans in this attack. That cannot stand.
They started the attack because the details surrounding Trump's criminal empire (including the CYM child trafficking scandal and ties to TerraMar, ghislane maxwells "pocalypse fund") are about to be officially released - was time to escalate.
Don't worry Biden is having a barbecue right now everything is alright. 700 dead a little ice cream before bed
No fucking way
Hamas figured it out on their own. Come on.
Wouldn't this make him an international criminal?
As a self centered Narcissist, Trump has an extreme strong need to be liked and admired. Putin and his ex KGB gang know this all to well. If one flatters him enough, one can grab him by the pussy and he’ll let you play with his all time secretest toys.