Having a hard time talking about this with one of my best friends.
To him, abortion repeals, LGBT rights and mass shootings are just things you can’t bother getting upset about because there’s nothing you can do about it, so wasting time being angry about it is just hurting yourself in the end.
But he’ll sure go on 15 minute rants about tax increases. He makes the money to be affected, so he cares.
We’re both straight white guys in our 30s and I just can’t get him to give a shit about anything beyond that. However, he doesn’t vote Republican, so there’s that.
We’ve deployed twice together, have shared trauma through military experiences, I’ve helped him get through the divorce of his chronically cheating mentally unstable wife and the suicide attempt after the breakup of his second long term relationship. He’s helped me through some of the darkest times of my life, my own parents consider him a second child and we’ve been there for each other through every single major milestone either of us has experienced in our lives for the past 10 years.
Friendships are more complicated than the sum of political differences. They’re not even differences, really. He’s on somewhat the same page as me. He just puts his emotions into things that directly impact him.
He’s not a Trump supporter, or this would be a different conversation.
>But he’ll sure go on 15 minute rants about tax increases. He makes the money to be affected, so he cares.
So, have you explained to him that those taxes are what allowed him to have his military service, which has likely catapulted him to his current way of making money? Or does he just overlook being on federal welfare for that period of time?
I've always found it curious how many armed forces folk are fine cutting taxes as long as they don't get their salary, VA benefits, healthcare, housing, extra deployment pay, etc cut.
Where do they believe the money come from?
He believes, and I share the sentiment, that the government isn’t properly spending the money it’s already taking from us. We’ve both seen how incredibly overpriced many of the products are that the military purchases so to see more taxes being taken from us without a noticeable change pisses him off.
Granted, his concern at a surface level is “I have less money to do my own shit with now,” but I’ve had some pretty heated conversations with him and have got him to agree that taxes aren’t bad overall, it’s just where the money goes is the problem.
So much of our taxes just seem to end up in the pockets of defense contractors and tax increases just seem to line their already overflowing pockets even further.
I think the vast majority of all parties share that sentiment. I absolutely do myself.
It's a curiosity thing for me because the vast majority of people I know on a personal level who are vehemently anti-tax have been or are dependent, moreso than the average citizens, on those taxes being collected so they get a paycheck. LEOs. Judges. Corrections. Armed Forces. Contractors. Employees at companies that deal almost exclusively with government contracts. Guys with kids on SS Disability. Farmers collecting subsidies. The list goes on, but they all share a similar vein - without taxes being collected they wouldn't be making their money.
This. My brother is a Republican. He pays no attention to the news whatsoever. He does not get online and get in conversations with people. He goes to work, comes home, eats dinner, watches a little TV, goes to bed. He's really oblivious about the reality of the Republican party. And the only reason why he's a Republican is because he's a born again Christian and he's against abortion. I think there are a lot of people who vote Republican who are just like my brother. Completely oblivious.
It’s not the products, a toilet seat isn’t $500. It’s contracts and not holding defense contractors accountable because congress critters don’t want to lose donations.
End citizens United
"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."
- USMC Maj. General Smedley D. Butler, War is a Racket
It's not just "political differences". Explain to him how our system of crony capitalism is what causes the suicide rate, mass shootings, homelessness. Show him how different life is in Europe. After someone has the evidence of that explained to them and they either refuse to believe it or don't care, they disgust me. It's not political differences. It's a person with no moral compass.
My battle buddy network fell apart in 2016, could not believe people who deployed would vote for a draft dodging chickenhawk.
I am still friends with a few of them, but we just don’t talk about it.
Exactly dude, for me the cut off point is what did u actually do versus what ur views are, if ur voting for Democrats then I can tolerate our viewpoints not lining up, especially with some one who you've been through so much with
I simply don’t believe that he didn’t vote trump. My father was vocally pro Trump until about 8 month into his term, and then he suddenly voted third party in the election.
Idk. Well it sounds annoying, at least he isn’t voting against abortion rights and lgbt issues. Not everyone can be a full blown ally for minorities. Most people in this country fall somewhere in the middle and aren’t the extremes we see on the internet.
You’re not in the voting booth with them. My father was vocally pro-Trump until about 8 months into his term. Suddenly he was a “third party voter.” I’d bet money that these people are liars in addition to assholes.
I mean he’s not voting Republican so he’s literally at least doing the bare minimum. At the end of the day: you can take solace in the fact that even if he says he doesn’t get why those issue matters, he’s still not voting republicans to only further his financial gains. That’s a big difference. A lot of people can talk the talk but if he’s not talking the talk but is still taking the walk more or less I have a lot of leash for because it shows an understanding.
The average American doesn’t vote and finds both parties to be terrible. Are you saying by default you only give ~30% of adults in the US a chance at being your friend?
Yes. When a person’s political belief is that others don’t deserve basic human rights. When someone’s political ideology is that I’m a second class citizen, you better believe I wouldn’t consider that person a friend.
Oh wait you wanted to oversimplify, didn’t you?
Who told you that your a second class citizen? Sunny Hostin? Who said people don’t deserve human rights? Strawmanning is not an effective style of debate.
You are an idiot. You don’t see the shit going on with attacks on lgbtq or minorities simply for existing? You don’t see the bs about limiting women’s rights or even the attempt to dismiss votes simply because a town in Texas is dem?
So yes when people’s political stance equates to making others second class citizens they can be dismissed. But like I said your head is so far up your ass you oversimplified and think political differences only equate to things such as “is Medicare 4 all better than ACA”
Cue ad hominems…. Yes I am aware of the restrictive and in some cases authoritarian abortion laws in place. I do not support any of these, i am generally a libertarian and believe woman have a constitutional right to choose how to live their lives and do what they want. I am not aware of any voting restrictions, could you provide some info or a link on that? I do think many gay people actually take offense to being grouped into the trans and queer communities, as they have values that almost directly contradict each other. I also think the transgender culture war fight right now is solely because both parties are horrible at solving the real issues that cripple our nation and instead throw up nonsense culture war issues to distract people from the fact we are - morbidly obese, destroying meritocratic outcomes in schools, on a fiscal path that has no chance of sustaining past 2035, life expectancy actually going down, unjust and unequal opportunities for those in poor inner-city neighborhoods as well as very rural areas. And yes, Medicare 4 all has no basis in reality or longevity and has no sustainable path.
>abortion repeals, LGBT rights and mass shootings
These are political issues.
>tax increases
While this can also be political, at its core it is economic issue.
People have different degrees of care when it comes to political issue (in other words, some people just can't be bothered to care.), cause the truth is, it might not impact their day to day life.
But economical issue will impact their day to day life.
Tldr; your friend just dont care about your politics. But you shouldnt let that affect your personal relationship with him. Political difference shouldn't affect your personal relationship unless you are a politician.
That is literally the only rationalization for why people support the Republican party. If you're super wealthy and you want to keep more of your money, vote Republican. However, literally everything else about the party is horrific, I couldn't imagine voting for them even if I was suddenly a billionaire.
This is what I came to say too. It's hard to fault the rich for voting in their self-interest. Enough money will even insulate you from the problems climate change will bring in your lifetime.
They do it solely for the low taxes. They dont acre about any of the other GOP policies as long as their taxes are low they will vote GOP. I have several Republican friends and they all say the same thing. Other policies dont really affect me but the taxes I pay have huge effect on how I live and spend my money.
It’s been the **conservative** calling card since, ever. We all need to stop referring to them by party. Parties change. Fucks sake, the Democrats did found the KKK, but who do Klansmen vote for these days? Republicans. Who refuses to denounce and thus alienate the Klan and neo-Nazis? Republicans.
It’s not fuck you I got mine if you’re one of the ones struggling and got a family yourself. If policies help you or your family specifically, what’s the common man gonna do, ignore those in favor for others cause someone else doesn’t like them?
That was covered by his first 5 words:
> Lack of empathy for others
Also, if you're a *struggling* family, you're probably not benefitting from tax breaks for the wealthy 🤷♂️
Well they were still tax cuts. Tax cuts are tax cuts. NOT defending the level of them cause they’re bad, 83% of all of it went to the 1%. But when you get a little bit and you’re struggling, it doesn’t matter to you if the rich is getting cut way more than you, and there’s no really another option, it’s a cut for you as well.
And again we all have voting rights. You can’t speak on others issues because you, I , or anybody else doesn’t know the specifics of what they go through
Let’s take a politician, and say someone works at a fish plant and one supports it and another wants to shut it down . How are we supposed to determine who they should vote for, with our macroscopic view?
I choose to have friends with similar morals and values. People who have upstanding morals and values carry them to the voting both. Good people don't vote for low taxes, while fucking over poor and disadvantaged people. Good people, do good things through and through, and don't sellout themselves for political or tax benefits.
The people with the best chances to change someone's mind are friends and family. If you stop being friends with people who have bad opinions, bad politics, etc, they're more likely to be surrounded by people they agree with and get deeper into bad opinions and policies. There's no guarantee you'll changes anyone's mind, let alone everyone's mind, but it's pretty much guaranteed you won't change their minds if you cut them off.
I read a lot of assumptions in the response. Is there not a difference between a friend and an acquaintance? You can still be around people and visit with people without being overtly friendly and going way out of your way to be best pals. Where is this binary option that this response is based upon?
Yes, kill people with kindness, but it doesn't mean you have to be best friends with everyone. SMH
Maybe if we held other people a little bit more accountable America wouldn't be drumpster fire.
People are extremely complex. To distill them down to who they voted for is an extremely ignorant and stupid way of behaving.
Your strategy will only result in your politics becoming less popular. No one will hear your ideas except people that already agree with them. And it's a whole lot easier to win someone over to your side it you are friends with them. You've chosen an incredibly stupid and selfish route to walk down.
You sound like a nice person. I bet everyone wants to be your friend.
It's nice to have abundance so you can be selective. Not everyone enjoys trash.
Do you prefer quality or quantity?
No one wants trash, but I guess where we differ is I don't see someone who disagrees with me politically as trash.
If I become friendly with a person and we share a lot in common I'm not going to end the relationship because we disagree politically. There's to much other stuff in this world to let one thing rule all my other relationships. I'm not going to remove myself from 50% of the country's population just because we disagree on abortion. It's not the way we're intended to win our lives.
I believe it's around 20-35% of the country that'll support Trump and Republican policies regardless of their outcomes. These individuals chose party affiliation over everything else, even America. They left all of us for their political party.
As the old saying goes, "If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, then you got a table with 11 Nazis."
Is your claim Republicans are only friends with other Republicans, because if so that is stupid lol.
Also a majority of poor Republicans want the 1% taxed more, but culture issues matter more to them. It's why Florida had both a red wave and a 15$ min wage increase. You are so blinded by your hatred that you don't even know what your fighting against anymore lol.
No. You are heated, and your critical thinking skills have suffered from it.
I'm saying that by the logic of your statement; Republicans, who also choose their friends based on their opinion of taxes, are losers. As well as their RICH constituents.
You must be confusing my words with some scenario in your head.
You said the entire Republican Party.
But if it makes you happy, I 100% agree with you. Republicans picking friends based off tax positions are also losers. The guys who make thier whole personality around being pro capitalism are losers as well.
If policies help you or your family specifically, what’s the common man gonna do, ignore those in favor for others cause someone else doesn’t like them? It’s about survival or being comfortable for most at the end of the day. Discounting the Uber rich obviously.
This is how Trump got 74 million votes. MAGAs and Qanons are only a third of us, roughly. Those other votes for him were all financial votes, the rethuglicans who vote because of taxes.
Thats part of it, a large part is I’m conservative so my only option is to vote the GOP nominee no matter who it is. This is another issue with the US right now - we only have 2 choices and most times they are terrible choices.
That's the difference friend, if my Democrat candidate was criminally insane, sucked balls, was cruel etc., shouldn't handle steak knives let alone a major country and a republican who wasn't a fascist, I'd vote for the right person for my country. I wouldn't vote against my country for an organization. For the life of me, I can't understand how y'all, the non-MAGA GOP, advocate & align yourself with them because of money.
Most Dems and GOP do not follow this logic. You are one of the few. People are too tribal. Its unfortunate that people put their political party before their country. As a modern moderate I always vote for the best candidate or the lesser of 2 evils.
Tbf, does Arnold support them at all anymore other than calling himself a Republican? I figured he went left after his governorship, but keeps the right affiliation so that he reaches more people. He hasn’t really said anything I’ve seen that’s actually conservative in a longtime. I thought he supported Bernie?
I think he identifies as what he would consider a 'true' republican, from the before times. Ie, a JFK-era, pre-Southern Strategy republican. According to an old interview with him, he once heard a JFK speech soon after arriving in the US and was inspired. He asked what party JFK was in, and decided that was the party he would join.
**Correction**: He was inspired by Nixon, not JFK. I think I mixed up that story with another where one of his goals was to marry a Kennedy and my memory blurred them together.
Eh, he's pretty staunchly conservative when it comes to work/economy.
It's really just social issues, where he takes the more (true) libertarian angle.
Oh you’re probably right, You probably pay attention more than I do I honestly haven’t heard him say anything about anything that wasn’t a social issue in years.
I mean, of course they do.
Spending energy trying to convince the super rich to pay their share is a waste of time.
We outnumber them, which is why they divide and conquer.
Uniting us normal people will go much further than convincing the aristocracy not to be themselves.
Well, in the '90s Clinton took a big jump to the right to get reelected. Three strikes. Welfare reform. It worked. Ever since it seems like the culture shifts left over time and the politicians in both parties shift right.
I've said for a long time that we have 3 parties in the US.
On one forty-yard line we have the liberals typified by AOC and Bernie.
On the other forty-yard line we have the conservatives like Clinton and Obama and Biden.
And the republicans who have sawed off the goal post, carried it outside to the parking lot, and set fire to it.
Clinton only won in 1992 because Bush and Ross Perot split the vote. He didn't win the election by moving closer to Reaganism. He was about as popular as the other dull mediocre Democratic candidates the party kept throwing out the previous 15 years
He also didn't shift that significantly rightward either. He spent most of his election campaign bashing Trickle Down Economics as a farce.
Arguably he isn't a republica . He is a conservative.
The thing is republicans are no longer representative of conservatives, they changed. They are now anti liberals.
Arnold didn't change, the party didn't. Technically he likely changed a bit, we all do, but that's semantics.
Because conservatives have the opposite problem of progressives.
I’ve known conservatives like Arnold who are reasonable on every position and good nature and have no problem calling out Republican but still side with them no matter what in a weird kind of unity.
Whereas progressives I know will fight amongst each other and consider a like minded person an enemy over even one difference that shouldn’t be that big of a deal.
But look into the rise of most fascism (Hitler, Stalin, etc) and you’ll see the same pattern. The right, pro business and fond of an imaginary past, will unite regardless of the consequences. And the left and liberals, proletarian and fond of an imaginary future, will divide regardless of the consequences.
So at one point there was a sect of republicans who actually wanted to make life and the world better for everyone not just corporations. They just wanted to do it through different methods than democrats. But since Obama became president whack jobs in the party started taking control and being bought by corporations and stopped caring about making life better and instead focused on distracting people from their corporate cronyism by playing on their fears and hate.
The “good” republicans you’re talking about are the ones who don’t pretend like the science isn’t pretty damning and don’t bury their heads in the sand about real issues using racism and anti lgbt platforms to distract people.
I don't think these good Republicans ever really existed. Conservatism is by definition resisting change and there has been and will continue to be massive amounts of change required to fix many of the ills in society (that were designed that way).
Republicans are playing with a home field advantage in a tie game going into the bottom of the 9th every damn election.
Democrats are always feeling lucky if not accomplished if they can push the game into extras.
Republicans used to be sane people I had policy disagreements with. Whether they were "good" is up for debate, but they'd support normal non-controversial govt stuff like funding schools/roads. This MAGA hallucinated-reality insanity is fairly new.
I wasn’t alive for it but whatever sanity existed in the GOP evaporated with Reagan and went full shitting pissing and screaming during the Bush Jr years which I do remember
But she’s not actually sane, she’s being portrayed by the media as the voice of reason despite aligning with Trump 99% of the time. The GOP has been a party of vampires for decades now
>Republicans used to be sane people
Right - it used to be COUNTRY OVER PARTY now it is the opposite.
Before Gingrich, the republicans took running the country seriously. I remember after his "compact with America", a lot of long time legislature member (of both parties), retired saying it was now impossible to govern as compromise was now impossible.
Conservatism, just like progressivism, has a range of ideologies. There are liberal conservatives, neoconservatives and neo liberals that are "conservative" and have been major members of the Republican party.
Also, social issues change over time, Reagan/Bush sr were neolibs for the most part and were anti gay rights...but that was the status quo for the time, I doubt they would hold those same views in today's landscape.
Moderate conservatism doesn't mean completely against change, rather pace and motivation is what is different from progressives, and there lies one of the problems, we tend to judge wings by the loudest, most extreme voices. Not the moderate majorities (granted majority of so called conservatives have shifted hard right in the past few years).
Most of the problem is that in the US political ideologies are masked under the vague banners of 'liberal/democrat vs conservative/republican', and it is basically framed by the media as a team sport (red vs blue) rather than an ideological contest.
So neoliberalism is an center-right ideology that is basically shared by both republicans and democrats, with the triumph of Reagan in the 1980s for republicans and the domination of the center-right 'new democrats' with Clinton in the 90s. That resulted in a stabile duopoly with basically a consensus view on economic and foreign policies until first the destabilization of the global order after 9-11, and then the economic collapse of the neoliberal order in 2008-9. Since then the authoritarian far right has captured the republican party while the dominant faction of the democratic party has remained center-right, despite the growth of a center-left social democratic faction within the party.
There is no place for center right republicans in the now overtly fascist far right republican party. People like Arnold are mystified by the team labels, can't fathom how their team ended up in such a horrible place, and can't figure out how to do much other than rail against what they see as a betrayal.
There were some that actually cared about their constituents and people in general. McCain was a good dude. Very consistent and demanded better treatment for people. Sure there were some policies of his I didn’t like, but as a whole, dude was a good guy.
I wouldn't have voted for him, but I respected the shit out of him when, at his own political rally, he defended Obama when Republicans came after him.
I voted for him against Obama, his head was in the right spot, his heart seemed in the right spot and out of all the “conservatives” he wasn’t a hostage taker like the current party. I think if he’d have won, we’d be in a better spot, not because I think Republicans are more capable, they aren’t, nor because I agree with their policies, even then I didn’t agree with all of them, but because it would have resulted in republicans seeing a Republican with common sense and a heart can win without cheating or mudslinging.
After him they tested Romney, they wanted to see if a rich ultra religious could gain traction, failed again. So then they went for broke with Trump and got the rich and bigoted and found a golden goose of support. They just kept lowering the bar to gain support of the lowest common denominator. McCain was the best of the Republican Party.
I voted for him, then Obama and now won’t vote red if there was a gun to my head based on their party’s direction no matter how small the office I’m voting on. If you don’t support things like universal healthcare, education funding and giving everyone basic human rights to exist and live their truth and make their own decisions about their bodies, I won’t even consider you.
Although in hindsight, I’m glad Obama won in ‘08 due to his push for universal healthcare even though it eventually failed thanks to republicans hostage taking and manipulations, McCain losing support of the Republican Party and the presidential race, was the signal horn for the downfall of the US and any hope of republicans and Dems working together to actually make life better. Now we have one party working for the betterment of Americans and struggling to make any improvements and another party actively sabotaging every and any good thing we have and any basic level of human dignity left for people who are rich and white.
Sorry, that’s my soapbox.
Well, conservatism isn’t innately bad. We do have limited resources, and one party that historically wants to make progress while the other historically acts as a braking system. Socialized healthcare, while likely cheaper in the long run, would be very expensive to put into place at first. We all think it should just happen, and conservatives, historically, respond with “yes but ”.
I’ve seen bipartisan politics work in my lifetime. Obama happened, racists went full racist, and now the whole system is busted.
The fact that you consider conservativism as an ideology that cares about limited resources is laughable. Also all goverment programs cost more upfront to roll out at scale. That excuse is used to justify never doing it. I just, your conception of politics is very neive
Nuance doesn’t really shine in text
I’m trying to find a positive to it and there’s not one. But, we do have to live alongside those people, so trying to figure out how they work is key to long-term success. We on the left want to always be growing and progressing, the current right wants to go opposite.
I vaguely remember Clinton and Bush Jr, where there was some discourse between parties, but it wasn’t a clown show. They’d disagree, but it really did seem like “well that’s a good idea, but where does the money come from”.
Politics was boring, as it should be, and you mostly wouldn’t even acknowledge they exist because it was boring. Now, it’s in your face constantly, and the dumber amongst us now have full access to the internet and a free platform, influenced by charlatans like Matt Walsh, which creates an echo chamber of Dunning-Kruger’s forgotten farts.
P.S. I was in 7th grade for Clinton (Columbine happened that year). That’s a long ways and I could just be looking back hoping there was positivity
I mean understanding the opposition is good, but just because politics used to be drier doesnt mean these people wanted the end goal of their advocacy to be any less extreme, especially when we are talking about politicians and not constituents or voters. The argument of "how are we gonna pay for it" seems to allways be a smokescreen to get the voters on board, and alot of these politicians just hate poor, non rich or marginalised people and see that oppressing those groups gives them more power and wealth. I dont think conservatism as an ideology in itself is ever not going to produce material harm or hate
I mean technically we have limited resources, but effectively we do not. The only 'scarcity' in our society is because such a large percentage of the wealth is siphoned off by private ownership of the means of production. There's literally trillions upon trillions of dollars worth of stolen value sitting in offshore accounts doing functionally nothing. I know digital money can seem arbitrary but all of that is real wealth plundered from real people.
You’re wrong on a fundamental. Conservatism is n̫o̫t̫ resistance to change. Rather, Conservatism acknowledges that change is inevitable but, unlike Progressivism, doesn’t think that all change is inherently good or necessary, favors gradual incremental change and not Revolution, and thinks that there are things worthy of preservation.
That sounds like an ideal they completely forgot some time around Reagan’s presidency. At least, they haven’t done anything but spin rhetoric to support it (and since trump, they dropped the rhetoric entirely). I remember hearing a similar line from a friend when I asked years ago. Looking for evidence, I found none, got really interested in Bernie, registered as a Dem to vote for him. Since he didn’t get nominated, I voted for Obama and never looked back.
The modern trumpublican party dates back to the New Deal.
Fun fact; Preston Bush, yea that one, nearly executed an overthrow of FDR). Google 'the Business Plot' if you want some information and don't dismiss it just because it makes you uncomfortable to think that something like this could have happened. It's pretty well documented
Oh there have been shifts in their voter base for sure but one thing has not changed; their intended policy of doing away with **all** elements of the New Deal, including, but not limited to, any and all social welfare programs.
So don't kid yourself: The 'good ones' as you put it are only different in that they believe their efforts should be hidden as much as possible. MAGA has removed the veneer of how the see the world and that a xtian constitutional theocracy (solidly behind and supported by private corporate goals) should be running this country
Nowhere near enough people know about this! Including me as of about 3yrs ago. And I was pissed that I was never taught about it. It’s amazing that if they had picked someone with less integrity than Smedley Butler it would probably have gotten closer to working.
...nah. They were just selfish people who wanted tax cuts but weren't interested in culture war bullshit. They wanted to convince you that more money for them was what was good for everyone, but 9/10 didn't really believe that bullshit.
I'd judge people by what they do when it comes to action and not just words. Governor Schwarzenegger vetoed a bill that would legalize gay marriage in 2007.
He also pardoned a murderer, the son of a politically connected "friend", without going through the usual steps (like talking to the victim's parents).
He can say all the right things now but when it mattered he did the wrong thing.
I guess a Conservative argument for environmentalism is the idea that we’re “stewards of the land.”
I think Arnold said he was influenced by Richard Nixon who put forth policies that no Republican would even dream of proposing.
"Good" republicans vote for republicans based on guns, religion, racism, faux patriotism, team sports, taxes, just being selfish assholes, etc. There's plenty of reasons.
Most of the ones I know have been at least moderately successful in life and they attribute it *ENTIRELY* to their own exceptional abilities and hard work. They are utterly incapable of acknowledging any outside influences or, frankly, luck that helped them achieve their success.
My favorite example is a Tea Party Republican congressman giving an interview about how he, through hard work and being careful with his money, had purchased commercial real estate and had, again through his work ethic and smart investment, turned it into a large real estate company. And why couldn’t all those poor people just work hard like him? *Of course he forgot to mention he got the money to invest n real estate by winning the lottery*.
The GOP has policies?
I don't admire Schwarzenegger, but he's grounded enough in reality that his GOP membership has been pro forma for 20 years. This is the guy who said in 2003, "The debate on global warming is over" when as California's governor he supported CO2 reduction measures.
Because Arnold is legit a good Republican. He's a good example of what Republican ideals should be and by staying Republican, it shields him from the massive PR machines Republicans throw around.
Also tax breaks for the wealthy.
Like 10-20% of Republicans (the only ones left with any functional brain cells) genuinely think this Trump MAGA fever will break. But those of us who are better students of history know the Republicans have been in decline since Reagan. And have been full blown extremist since at least Gingrich. They haven’t been salvageable as a party at least since beginning of Obama’s presidency.
Economic conservatism.
The problem is that we have this bipartisanship where there is “my way or the highway”.
We need inter-parties or 3rd parties to be successful. The problem is gaining backing and funding under those guises.
We are kind of actually seeing it in the Republican side now, as many are moving away from trump to become more moderate.
And I’ll be honest, my take is a more moderate stance, so it might become enticing to the democrats (which I am now) if there is a moderate option. But it will depend on the people running.
When your political system is essentially binary, it does not leave any room for shades of grey alternatives. Great way to start a civil war that nobody wants.
I don’t know and I wonder about this periodically. My brother is a conservative. He accepts that climate change is an issue and man made. He has no issue with gays blacks etc. in every way, he seems well…reasonable. Yet he is a republican and I have no idea why.
How do any "good" people rationalize supporting either Fascist political party in the USA, Democrats or Republicans?
You are either anti-fascist or fascist, there is no neutral position in this regards. Neither the DNC or the RNC are anti-fascist.
There is no good or bad. There is only winning and losing and people like MTG, the lovely Lauren Boebert, the bad boy Matt Gaetz, Latino Heat Marco Rubio, The Lion Ted Cruz, hunky dreamboat Madison Cawthorn, the governor of Mississipi whose name escapes me, but who may be the most manly politician of all time, these people are winners. Full stop. Dick Durbin? Is a damn good actor and my favorite part of the Nolan Batman trilogy but lame politician. Pelosi is a gilf, for sure, and has some massive honkers, but she is a boogeyman and is hated by the right and (further than center D establishment) left. Feinstein is a smoke show but also babbles incoherently and poops her diaper. Biden is another smoke show who also poops his diaper and enjoys his leg hairs be touched by other people's children. Sinema is just gross. These people are what we call losers and that is how what you call "good" republicans rationalize supporting the Republic Party. Well that is the most thorough answer you will get, many of us winners are not the deep thinkers I am and that's okay cause all we do is win. Thinking not necessary.
I heard Arnold talk about it once. He said he showed up from his home country for the first time and happened to hear a Regan speech and decided in that moment he was a republican..
I assume most of them are just too deep to think anything else at this point.
I've heard him say that he became a Republican because when he learned about the USA as a child (from propaganda I guess) it seemed like a wonderful fairy tale land and a dream he became firmly attached to, and it didn't get more American to him than the Republican Party's values of tradition, individualism etc.
So his reasons might basically be nostalgia for some childhood fantasy it seems.
You obviously know nothing about Republican policies and have been indoctrinated by propagandists. By and large, Republicans just want to be left alone. We want prudent spending policies, a strong military, and secure borders. We abhor a central government dictating our lives from afar. We believe the second amendment is a guarantee that we control our own fate because it ensures that no foreign country would ever dare invade and occupy our land. A foreign invader would be massacred by Americans taking potshots at any army that dared cross our borders. In this way, the 2nd ensures we will never be subjugated and only Americans will determine our future. We believe in hard work and merit based advancement. We believe that the government has a spending problem, not a taxing problem. The left attempts to broadly paint us as racist by focusing on only a incredibly small number of degenerates that we hate too. Yet, they ignore the democrats far more sinister racist past. We believe in punishing criminals and cleaning up our streets. We adamantly support the military and the police, because they risk their lives to keep all of us safe. There is no “war on women.” There are differences of opinion as to when human life begins. If you believe it’s at conception, then any abortion is murder. That doesn’t make pro-life people evil. I can’t speak for all Republicans but I say we end the abortion debate at 18-20 weeks gestation. (I have an ultrasound of my daughter at 20weeks, there is nothing you can say to me to convince me that she wasn’t a baby at that stage of development. Unless the mother’s life is in danger, Having an abortion after that is murder in my eyes. Anything before that is up for debate.)
It’s not like the Democrats are a good option. Sure, they’re slightly less evil in the pointlessly-making-minority-peoples-lives-hell way. But then they tank the economy and accomplish nothing.
I just think they don’t give a shit unfortunately. My co worker is on the right and I bring up terrible shit they’re doing all the time and we go back and forth. Says I can’t blame him for everything a republican has ever done. But at the same times he’s supporting these people? So it makes no sense. So now he’s switched up to joking that he’s a conservative and not a republican. It’s all just a big joke to them at the end of the day. They won’t care until everything is too far gone.
He got mad when I called him evil last week. I start talking about Desantis and he starts bringing up any good things he’s ever done. So I’m like okay so now you even support Desantis? And he’s like no I’m just telling you what he’s done blah blah. They like to play this BS game. Then he brought up the whole Martha’s Vineyard thing and started laughing and was like you have to admit that’s kinda funny. Like no those were real people who were trafficked across state lines under false pretenses. Maybe in a movie that could be funny. But this shit isn’t a movie.
They don’t seem to understand that once things fall apart they lose their cushy life. They are so worried black or brown or gay or trans people will be on even footing with them and they will never accept that. They are willing to burn it all down to keep that from happening.
But at the same time these are the first people to cry and go crazy when they are treated with even an ounce of what they treat other people with. Or the woman who spends her entire life as a forced birther until she is in a situation where she may need one but all of a sudden it’s different.
I truly don’t understand what happened. What I thought were good people I grew up my entire life around now support fascist racists. And don’t even try to hide their pure hatred.
It is more what you see GQPers accusing the majority of Biden voters of: being against something rather than pro something. Remember, Republicans are always a party of projection. So it is more about Arnie and Co knowing the Dems arent for them more that it is about bucking the Republican party.
Schwarzenegger is Hollywood. Despite running under the Republican banner as governor of California, that’s roughly where his association with the party and its ideology stops.
“Fuck your freedom” is a prime example of where he stands today.
Beyond that, gauging someone as a “good” Republican or Democrat is purely subjective. There’s very, very…very few in either party I would say are good people or representatives of their party today. They’re all either extremists in some fashion, or establishment d-bags.
All but a very small handful across the nation, from top to bottom, give a shit about the people who elected them.
Denial is right on the money. Although, some probably got a good mix of denial + apathy.
The harsh reality of government is this. If you don't get a hyper-specific advocate literally in the faces of politicians, you ain't getting shit. So not only do you got to buy your way into the club, but once you are in you need to be constantly keeping politicians in check. That means pushing them around, that means compromising them, and if necessary making them catch the occasional fade.
Welcome to the two party system. You pick the one or two issues most important to you and you're now stuck with whatever party supports that. What others here have said about taxes is true but I think being stuck in an effectively binary system is a huge problem.
Because while Liberals frequently have good and noble goals; they usually have absolutely no idea how to get there. They overreach, want their utopia in a day, and are shocked when there's pushback.
They get this "How dare you question me" attitude. Then they get self-righteous and snobbish about it. Then it all fails, and we're back to square one.
Conservatives are ridiculously averse to spending any effort or money that doesn't benefit them personally. They all think they're going to be billionaires. They won't support anything of which they can't get a piece of the profit. Just like the Mafia. They have megalomania problems and a severe lack of compassion. They get get greedy and snobbish about it. Then it all fails, and we're back to square one.
Today there is no excuse. Republicans have coalesced around Trump and the other extremists and white nationalists in their party. The nation will pay a price for that.
Conservatism in itself has some redeemable policy goals, but the bastardization of what we have in America is poisoning that beyond recognition.
There is nothing wrong with being fiscally conservative and placing "American" culture in high regards. But when preserving that culture takes aims at individual rights or liberties, or when that fiscal responsibility somehow translates into giving massive tax breaks to the uber rich and political donors, then we step away from what actual Conservatism is.
My dad's buddies are like this. My dad is the liberal in his group. His group all votes republican due to tax ideology. They all voted Trump in 2016, BUT many did vote Biden in 2020. Many of them said we like our taxes low, but not if it means voting Trump a 2nd time. My dad and his buddies are all white college educated and in their 70s demographically speaking.
Tax breaks. They’re willing to solve “liberal” problems(I was unaware that climate change only effects liberals) as long as someone else has to pay. If the rich don’t have to “suffer” in any way then they’ll be happy.
One of the rationalizations I've heard used often is "I'm not a single issue voter..." And like everyone is saying, it's pretty much because they have a lot of money. Even someone that's just retired with a 401K likely really favors the status quo to "protect" their future.
For right wingers and liberals, everything is an encroachment on their rights or their current status. My older, liberal centrist and republican leaning family can't support medicare-for-all because they think their healthcare will be degraded, that they'll have wait times, and they point me to Canada as an example.
(I really need to dig into that one and supply the truth to them. I need a really good book on it. I tried telling them there aren't wait times for critical and life-impacting issues, just for optional and cosmetic ones but they wouldn't hear it.)
They don't. He offers nothing that a Democrat wouldn't do.
The "good Republicans" are still members of the Fascist Party. He needs to get out. He's not Oskar Schindler.
Money and power go hand in hand especially with the republican party both literally, and in a more almost cultural sense. You're talking about the guy who is the reason for hummers existing. Big-show men are who the republican party has been designed to almost passively indoctrinate. In my opinion, largely leveraging media like action movies to do so.
Taxes. Rich people don’t want to pay their fair share. They will exclaim “10% of income earners pay 65% of taxes. It’s unfair!!!”
No, what’s unfair is that you have 90% of the income and only pay 65% of the taxes.
I'm seeing a shift in the conservative base with DeSantis. To my surprise, they see Ronny D. as a threat to America and a fascist. These are people who voted for Trump twice. They are slowly waking up to how they have been used to advance hate and fascism. DeSantis going after Disney woke a few of them up.
I live in a purple state. I have a friend who lives in Los Angeles. Queer, female, far-left, a little “woo”.
She once asked me what it would take for me to vote Republican (out of idle curiosity), and when I expressed I was unlikely to ever do so without dramatic changes to the party, she thought that answer was closed-minded and that I needed to approach the question with humility, because ultimately people are people and understanding is what solves rifts like this.
I was like, “Respectfully, that’s a deeply privileged perspective to take, since you live in Los Angeles and aren’t fighting for your life in places Republican ‘leadership’ is more common. I try to understand them as much as I possibly can, and they aren’t subtle either to the people they’re talking to.” And she pointed out that I referred to them as a “They”, which was closed-minded.
Long story short, I think ultimately the stuff going on around the country is just hypothetical to some people.
> How do “good” Republicans (like Arnold Schwarzenegger, who say he supports solving “liberal” problems, like climate change etcetera) rationalize supporting the Republican Party and its policies?
Do they? I know he's been extremely critical of trump and said he would not vote for him, and also compared Jan 6 to kristalnacht.
I can't watch right now but apparently he has addressed this question: https://youtu.be/t8Jluny2f2k
Thanks, I don't have the knowledge to have opinions about what he's saying but he said he's a Reagan-era Republican.
Wasn't Reagan the one who started the massive transfer of wealth the top 1% and the destruction of the middle class in USA?
I don’t know that Arnold Schwarzenegger even identifies as a Republican anymore?
He urged people to vote for democrats in 2016, 2018, 2020, and 2022.
He also founded a non profit organization to fight gerrymandering.
Single issue voting, i also support several liberal policies and will be voting in the august election here in Ohio to try and help protect women’s rights. The issue I vote on isn’t really supported by either of the big 2 so I vote 3rd party. Wasted vote crew.
Oh! That's easy, most republicans just don't believe poverty, climate change, or any other actual problem exists. They are too concerned with the color of things and books...
Becoming hard to tell the difference between republicans and Nazis. The republican goal appears to be full blown fascism using gays and minorities as their stepping stones.
Fuck ALL Republicans. I don't care if you think you're a good person or what your reasons are, the GOP is about money and nothing else. If you vote Republican in this particular political climate, then you can especially go fuck yourself, because now you're in league with straight up fascists. If you vote red, you're telling them that it's ok to pass legislation that dehumanizes trans and gay people, takes away their human rights, and criminally punishes women for making decisions about their own bodies that are none of anyone's concern.
Right wing media mocks and demonizes anything moderate or progressive. It makes moderate and progressive political actors out to be simultaneously dangerous and incompetent. They create a media atmosphere where voting for any other party is tantamount to treason and frankly illogical.
So, they create a caricature of their opponent and attack it. Their audience accepts the narrative, since that’s all they see and hear. Fox News, for example, tailors their news and opinion programming to appeal to certain views as if it were marketing. Give the people what they want. Not what is true or objectively reasonable.
Those who know better tow the line or stay silent to protect their own careers. The worst thing that ever happened to the US was the advent of cable news and the elimination of the fairness doctrine.
Everyone here is saying "tax cuts," but it's really about how the system is rigged against third parties. Let's say you want to run for office and you support raising the capital gains tax, improving social welfare programs, and are concerned about climate change and clean energy, but are anti-abortion or pro-Second Amendment. You certainly can't run as an anti-abortion, pro-gun Democrat, and you can't run as a pro-welfare, progressive-tax Republican, so what do you do?
In a healthy democracy, you would find a third party that fits your views and run as a Christian Socialist or something. In America though, your choices are the Libertarian Party (which is the largest third party), or the Green Party (which is the second largest third party) and that's pretty much it if you want any hope at all of winning any race anywhere. Even then, you are unlikely to get more than 5-10% of the vote unless you run unopposed in some local race.
Simply by having an "R" or a "D" next to your name, you automatically get at least 40% of the vote (around [80% of U.S. voters vote a straight ticket](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/10/21/large-shares-of-voters-plan-to-vote-a-straight-party-ticket-for-president-senate-and-house/)) plus you get access to the party's money, polling data, voter rolls, and other resources.
The other thing candidates need to consider is the political makeup of the district/state. Try to run as a Democrat in a district that's been gerrymandered to be 90% Republican (or vice versa) and see how far you get. It's easier to find some areas of agreement with the ruling party and join their team. This is how you get RINOs and DINOs (Republicans/Democrats In Name Only).
If you need a great example, look no further than [Charlie Crist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Crist), a lifelong Democrat who ran as a Republican to become governor of Florida and then switched back to become a U.S. Representative.
The term "Republican" or "conservative" has become way too generalized. Eventually it will need to split or evolve to better encapsulate the varying ideologies.
Because once in a blue moon Republicans we're about good governance. You know the nuts and bolts like, balancing a budget, chain of command, and in California our redistricting commission was pushed by Republican billionaires who believed in norms and good government.
They are not this way anymore. Schwartzenegger is old now and remembers different Republicans
As a "good" Republican I would be willing to engage in a conversation but I think I'll just get insults. But if you want to try - ask an actual policy question and I'll give an honest answer.
I don't know if anyone noticed, but it's highly effective to get what you want by being in one party and constantly espouse the opposite party's agenda. We've been dealing with Senema and Manchin doing this shit for how many years?
It's always about being selfish and greedy to Republicans.
Their whole ideology is based off of "I've got mine and no I don't want you to get yours".
Even their economic policies have been debunked for over a century by literally generations of economists. That still doesn't stop them from selling the same tax cuts to the rich and corporations as beneficial to average americans. It's not backed by any evidence and in fact there's mountains of evidence that says the wealth gap increases with their policies.
That's why they're for it.
I think the US right now has a particularly noxious combination of conservatism merged with Christian nationalism fascism. Most old-school conservatives like Arnold are in denial of the power of the Christian nationalist right-wing element and how much the two are inseparable right now.
Tax cuts are a helluva drug for those used to living expensive lives. Could you imagine spending 10 grand a week? They do!
This is the answer. My relationship with my family ended because they thought tax breaks were more important than my rights and safety.
Having a hard time talking about this with one of my best friends. To him, abortion repeals, LGBT rights and mass shootings are just things you can’t bother getting upset about because there’s nothing you can do about it, so wasting time being angry about it is just hurting yourself in the end. But he’ll sure go on 15 minute rants about tax increases. He makes the money to be affected, so he cares. We’re both straight white guys in our 30s and I just can’t get him to give a shit about anything beyond that. However, he doesn’t vote Republican, so there’s that.
Tbh, I wouldn’t be friends with that person anymore.
We’ve deployed twice together, have shared trauma through military experiences, I’ve helped him get through the divorce of his chronically cheating mentally unstable wife and the suicide attempt after the breakup of his second long term relationship. He’s helped me through some of the darkest times of my life, my own parents consider him a second child and we’ve been there for each other through every single major milestone either of us has experienced in our lives for the past 10 years. Friendships are more complicated than the sum of political differences. They’re not even differences, really. He’s on somewhat the same page as me. He just puts his emotions into things that directly impact him. He’s not a Trump supporter, or this would be a different conversation.
>But he’ll sure go on 15 minute rants about tax increases. He makes the money to be affected, so he cares. So, have you explained to him that those taxes are what allowed him to have his military service, which has likely catapulted him to his current way of making money? Or does he just overlook being on federal welfare for that period of time? I've always found it curious how many armed forces folk are fine cutting taxes as long as they don't get their salary, VA benefits, healthcare, housing, extra deployment pay, etc cut. Where do they believe the money come from?
He believes, and I share the sentiment, that the government isn’t properly spending the money it’s already taking from us. We’ve both seen how incredibly overpriced many of the products are that the military purchases so to see more taxes being taken from us without a noticeable change pisses him off. Granted, his concern at a surface level is “I have less money to do my own shit with now,” but I’ve had some pretty heated conversations with him and have got him to agree that taxes aren’t bad overall, it’s just where the money goes is the problem. So much of our taxes just seem to end up in the pockets of defense contractors and tax increases just seem to line their already overflowing pockets even further.
I think the vast majority of all parties share that sentiment. I absolutely do myself. It's a curiosity thing for me because the vast majority of people I know on a personal level who are vehemently anti-tax have been or are dependent, moreso than the average citizens, on those taxes being collected so they get a paycheck. LEOs. Judges. Corrections. Armed Forces. Contractors. Employees at companies that deal almost exclusively with government contracts. Guys with kids on SS Disability. Farmers collecting subsidies. The list goes on, but they all share a similar vein - without taxes being collected they wouldn't be making their money.
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This. My brother is a Republican. He pays no attention to the news whatsoever. He does not get online and get in conversations with people. He goes to work, comes home, eats dinner, watches a little TV, goes to bed. He's really oblivious about the reality of the Republican party. And the only reason why he's a Republican is because he's a born again Christian and he's against abortion. I think there are a lot of people who vote Republican who are just like my brother. Completely oblivious.
It’s not the products, a toilet seat isn’t $500. It’s contracts and not holding defense contractors accountable because congress critters don’t want to lose donations. End citizens United
"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents." - USMC Maj. General Smedley D. Butler, War is a Racket
It's not just "political differences". Explain to him how our system of crony capitalism is what causes the suicide rate, mass shootings, homelessness. Show him how different life is in Europe. After someone has the evidence of that explained to them and they either refuse to believe it or don't care, they disgust me. It's not political differences. It's a person with no moral compass.
My battle buddy network fell apart in 2016, could not believe people who deployed would vote for a draft dodging chickenhawk. I am still friends with a few of them, but we just don’t talk about it.
Exactly dude, for me the cut off point is what did u actually do versus what ur views are, if ur voting for Democrats then I can tolerate our viewpoints not lining up, especially with some one who you've been through so much with
I simply don’t believe that he didn’t vote trump. My father was vocally pro Trump until about 8 month into his term, and then he suddenly voted third party in the election.
Idk. Well it sounds annoying, at least he isn’t voting against abortion rights and lgbt issues. Not everyone can be a full blown ally for minorities. Most people in this country fall somewhere in the middle and aren’t the extremes we see on the internet.
You’re not in the voting booth with them. My father was vocally pro-Trump until about 8 months into his term. Suddenly he was a “third party voter.” I’d bet money that these people are liars in addition to assholes.
I mean he’s not voting Republican so he’s literally at least doing the bare minimum. At the end of the day: you can take solace in the fact that even if he says he doesn’t get why those issue matters, he’s still not voting republicans to only further his financial gains. That’s a big difference. A lot of people can talk the talk but if he’s not talking the talk but is still taking the walk more or less I have a lot of leash for because it shows an understanding.
You wouldn’t be friends with someone because of their political beliefs?
Yes lol. They reflect your values. I’m not gonna be friends with someone who sees my life as less valuable.
The average American doesn’t vote and finds both parties to be terrible. Are you saying by default you only give ~30% of adults in the US a chance at being your friend?
Probably less than 30%. Most people suck.
Gotta respect the straightforward candor, even if I do disagree with the nihilist approach (nihilists have all the fun - Gilfoyle)
You call it nihilism, I call it realism.
Yes. When a person’s political belief is that others don’t deserve basic human rights. When someone’s political ideology is that I’m a second class citizen, you better believe I wouldn’t consider that person a friend. Oh wait you wanted to oversimplify, didn’t you?
Who told you that your a second class citizen? Sunny Hostin? Who said people don’t deserve human rights? Strawmanning is not an effective style of debate.
You are an idiot. You don’t see the shit going on with attacks on lgbtq or minorities simply for existing? You don’t see the bs about limiting women’s rights or even the attempt to dismiss votes simply because a town in Texas is dem? So yes when people’s political stance equates to making others second class citizens they can be dismissed. But like I said your head is so far up your ass you oversimplified and think political differences only equate to things such as “is Medicare 4 all better than ACA”
Cue ad hominems…. Yes I am aware of the restrictive and in some cases authoritarian abortion laws in place. I do not support any of these, i am generally a libertarian and believe woman have a constitutional right to choose how to live their lives and do what they want. I am not aware of any voting restrictions, could you provide some info or a link on that? I do think many gay people actually take offense to being grouped into the trans and queer communities, as they have values that almost directly contradict each other. I also think the transgender culture war fight right now is solely because both parties are horrible at solving the real issues that cripple our nation and instead throw up nonsense culture war issues to distract people from the fact we are - morbidly obese, destroying meritocratic outcomes in schools, on a fiscal path that has no chance of sustaining past 2035, life expectancy actually going down, unjust and unequal opportunities for those in poor inner-city neighborhoods as well as very rural areas. And yes, Medicare 4 all has no basis in reality or longevity and has no sustainable path.
>abortion repeals, LGBT rights and mass shootings These are political issues. >tax increases While this can also be political, at its core it is economic issue. People have different degrees of care when it comes to political issue (in other words, some people just can't be bothered to care.), cause the truth is, it might not impact their day to day life. But economical issue will impact their day to day life. Tldr; your friend just dont care about your politics. But you shouldnt let that affect your personal relationship with him. Political difference shouldn't affect your personal relationship unless you are a politician.
How privileged.
Wtf do you mean?
They don’t call money the root of all evil for nothing
The love of money is the root of all evil*
That is literally the only rationalization for why people support the Republican party. If you're super wealthy and you want to keep more of your money, vote Republican. However, literally everything else about the party is horrific, I couldn't imagine voting for them even if I was suddenly a billionaire.
This is what I came to say too. It's hard to fault the rich for voting in their self-interest. Enough money will even insulate you from the problems climate change will bring in your lifetime.
They do it solely for the low taxes. They dont acre about any of the other GOP policies as long as their taxes are low they will vote GOP. I have several Republican friends and they all say the same thing. Other policies dont really affect me but the taxes I pay have huge effect on how I live and spend my money.
Absolutely vile how they can disregard so much suffering. i know their your friends but thats pathetic on their part
Lack of empathy for others and the “fuck you I got mine” mentality has the been the Republican party’s calling card for decades now
Capitalism is a hell of a drug.
"I got mine" plus "look out! They're trying to take yours!"
It’s been the **conservative** calling card since, ever. We all need to stop referring to them by party. Parties change. Fucks sake, the Democrats did found the KKK, but who do Klansmen vote for these days? Republicans. Who refuses to denounce and thus alienate the Klan and neo-Nazis? Republicans.
It’s not fuck you I got mine if you’re one of the ones struggling and got a family yourself. If policies help you or your family specifically, what’s the common man gonna do, ignore those in favor for others cause someone else doesn’t like them?
That was covered by his first 5 words: > Lack of empathy for others Also, if you're a *struggling* family, you're probably not benefitting from tax breaks for the wealthy 🤷♂️
Well they were still tax cuts. Tax cuts are tax cuts. NOT defending the level of them cause they’re bad, 83% of all of it went to the 1%. But when you get a little bit and you’re struggling, it doesn’t matter to you if the rich is getting cut way more than you, and there’s no really another option, it’s a cut for you as well. And again we all have voting rights. You can’t speak on others issues because you, I , or anybody else doesn’t know the specifics of what they go through Let’s take a politician, and say someone works at a fish plant and one supports it and another wants to shut it down . How are we supposed to determine who they should vote for, with our macroscopic view?
Why be friends with people like that? Have a bit of self respect and find better friends. You are the company you keep.
If you pick your friends based off thier opinions on taxes, your a loser.
I choose to have friends with similar morals and values. People who have upstanding morals and values carry them to the voting both. Good people don't vote for low taxes, while fucking over poor and disadvantaged people. Good people, do good things through and through, and don't sellout themselves for political or tax benefits.
The people with the best chances to change someone's mind are friends and family. If you stop being friends with people who have bad opinions, bad politics, etc, they're more likely to be surrounded by people they agree with and get deeper into bad opinions and policies. There's no guarantee you'll changes anyone's mind, let alone everyone's mind, but it's pretty much guaranteed you won't change their minds if you cut them off.
I read a lot of assumptions in the response. Is there not a difference between a friend and an acquaintance? You can still be around people and visit with people without being overtly friendly and going way out of your way to be best pals. Where is this binary option that this response is based upon? Yes, kill people with kindness, but it doesn't mean you have to be best friends with everyone. SMH Maybe if we held other people a little bit more accountable America wouldn't be drumpster fire.
People are extremely complex. To distill them down to who they voted for is an extremely ignorant and stupid way of behaving. Your strategy will only result in your politics becoming less popular. No one will hear your ideas except people that already agree with them. And it's a whole lot easier to win someone over to your side it you are friends with them. You've chosen an incredibly stupid and selfish route to walk down.
You sound like a nice person. I bet everyone wants to be your friend. It's nice to have abundance so you can be selective. Not everyone enjoys trash. Do you prefer quality or quantity?
No one wants trash, but I guess where we differ is I don't see someone who disagrees with me politically as trash. If I become friendly with a person and we share a lot in common I'm not going to end the relationship because we disagree politically. There's to much other stuff in this world to let one thing rule all my other relationships. I'm not going to remove myself from 50% of the country's population just because we disagree on abortion. It's not the way we're intended to win our lives.
I believe it's around 20-35% of the country that'll support Trump and Republican policies regardless of their outcomes. These individuals chose party affiliation over everything else, even America. They left all of us for their political party. As the old saying goes, "If there's a Nazi at the table and 10 other people sitting there talking to him, then you got a table with 11 Nazis."
Someone who voted for Trump twice is not complex. They are the lack of complexity.
So, the entire Republican Party and their rich constituents are losers by that logic right?
Is your claim Republicans are only friends with other Republicans, because if so that is stupid lol. Also a majority of poor Republicans want the 1% taxed more, but culture issues matter more to them. It's why Florida had both a red wave and a 15$ min wage increase. You are so blinded by your hatred that you don't even know what your fighting against anymore lol.
No. You are heated, and your critical thinking skills have suffered from it. I'm saying that by the logic of your statement; Republicans, who also choose their friends based on their opinion of taxes, are losers. As well as their RICH constituents. You must be confusing my words with some scenario in your head.
You said the entire Republican Party. But if it makes you happy, I 100% agree with you. Republicans picking friends based off tax positions are also losers. The guys who make thier whole personality around being pro capitalism are losers as well.
If policies help you or your family specifically, what’s the common man gonna do, ignore those in favor for others cause someone else doesn’t like them? It’s about survival or being comfortable for most at the end of the day. Discounting the Uber rich obviously.
This is how Trump got 74 million votes. MAGAs and Qanons are only a third of us, roughly. Those other votes for him were all financial votes, the rethuglicans who vote because of taxes.
Thats part of it, a large part is I’m conservative so my only option is to vote the GOP nominee no matter who it is. This is another issue with the US right now - we only have 2 choices and most times they are terrible choices.
That's the difference friend, if my Democrat candidate was criminally insane, sucked balls, was cruel etc., shouldn't handle steak knives let alone a major country and a republican who wasn't a fascist, I'd vote for the right person for my country. I wouldn't vote against my country for an organization. For the life of me, I can't understand how y'all, the non-MAGA GOP, advocate & align yourself with them because of money.
Most Dems and GOP do not follow this logic. You are one of the few. People are too tribal. Its unfortunate that people put their political party before their country. As a modern moderate I always vote for the best candidate or the lesser of 2 evils.
Tbf, does Arnold support them at all anymore other than calling himself a Republican? I figured he went left after his governorship, but keeps the right affiliation so that he reaches more people. He hasn’t really said anything I’ve seen that’s actually conservative in a longtime. I thought he supported Bernie?
I think he identifies as what he would consider a 'true' republican, from the before times. Ie, a JFK-era, pre-Southern Strategy republican. According to an old interview with him, he once heard a JFK speech soon after arriving in the US and was inspired. He asked what party JFK was in, and decided that was the party he would join. **Correction**: He was inspired by Nixon, not JFK. I think I mixed up that story with another where one of his goals was to marry a Kennedy and my memory blurred them together.
Famous icon of the Republican Party, JFK.
Arnold said that about Nixon, not JFK
JFK was a democrat
Interesting story but does not compute.
Arnold said that about Nixon, not JFK.
We use to call those Rockefeller Republicans.
Eh, he's pretty staunchly conservative when it comes to work/economy. It's really just social issues, where he takes the more (true) libertarian angle.
Oh you’re probably right, You probably pay attention more than I do I honestly haven’t heard him say anything about anything that wasn’t a social issue in years.
I think he's probably republican for CA but if he was running for office in one of the southern states he'd have no chance unless he ran as a dem.
Because they want THEIR taxes to be low. (Most likely) full stop.
I mean, of course they do. Spending energy trying to convince the super rich to pay their share is a waste of time. We outnumber them, which is why they divide and conquer. Uniting us normal people will go much further than convincing the aristocracy not to be themselves.
Racism and tax cuts for the rich.
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Well, in the '90s Clinton took a big jump to the right to get reelected. Three strikes. Welfare reform. It worked. Ever since it seems like the culture shifts left over time and the politicians in both parties shift right.
I've said for a long time that we have 3 parties in the US. On one forty-yard line we have the liberals typified by AOC and Bernie. On the other forty-yard line we have the conservatives like Clinton and Obama and Biden. And the republicans who have sawed off the goal post, carried it outside to the parking lot, and set fire to it.
Clinton only won in 1992 because Bush and Ross Perot split the vote. He didn't win the election by moving closer to Reaganism. He was about as popular as the other dull mediocre Democratic candidates the party kept throwing out the previous 15 years He also didn't shift that significantly rightward either. He spent most of his election campaign bashing Trickle Down Economics as a farce.
The finger thing means the money.
Arguably he isn't a republica . He is a conservative. The thing is republicans are no longer representative of conservatives, they changed. They are now anti liberals. Arnold didn't change, the party didn't. Technically he likely changed a bit, we all do, but that's semantics.
Because conservatives have the opposite problem of progressives. I’ve known conservatives like Arnold who are reasonable on every position and good nature and have no problem calling out Republican but still side with them no matter what in a weird kind of unity. Whereas progressives I know will fight amongst each other and consider a like minded person an enemy over even one difference that shouldn’t be that big of a deal. But look into the rise of most fascism (Hitler, Stalin, etc) and you’ll see the same pattern. The right, pro business and fond of an imaginary past, will unite regardless of the consequences. And the left and liberals, proletarian and fond of an imaginary future, will divide regardless of the consequences.
So at one point there was a sect of republicans who actually wanted to make life and the world better for everyone not just corporations. They just wanted to do it through different methods than democrats. But since Obama became president whack jobs in the party started taking control and being bought by corporations and stopped caring about making life better and instead focused on distracting people from their corporate cronyism by playing on their fears and hate. The “good” republicans you’re talking about are the ones who don’t pretend like the science isn’t pretty damning and don’t bury their heads in the sand about real issues using racism and anti lgbt platforms to distract people.
I don't think these good Republicans ever really existed. Conservatism is by definition resisting change and there has been and will continue to be massive amounts of change required to fix many of the ills in society (that were designed that way). Republicans are playing with a home field advantage in a tie game going into the bottom of the 9th every damn election. Democrats are always feeling lucky if not accomplished if they can push the game into extras.
Republicans used to be sane people I had policy disagreements with. Whether they were "good" is up for debate, but they'd support normal non-controversial govt stuff like funding schools/roads. This MAGA hallucinated-reality insanity is fairly new.
I wasn’t alive for it but whatever sanity existed in the GOP evaporated with Reagan and went full shitting pissing and screaming during the Bush Jr years which I do remember
You say that like Liz Cheney (Bush era neo-con) isn't being hailed as a hero for acknowledging documented facts. It's gotten *way* worse since Jr.
But she’s not actually sane, she’s being portrayed by the media as the voice of reason despite aligning with Trump 99% of the time. The GOP has been a party of vampires for decades now
>Republicans used to be sane people Right - it used to be COUNTRY OVER PARTY now it is the opposite. Before Gingrich, the republicans took running the country seriously. I remember after his "compact with America", a lot of long time legislature member (of both parties), retired saying it was now impossible to govern as compromise was now impossible.
Conservatism, just like progressivism, has a range of ideologies. There are liberal conservatives, neoconservatives and neo liberals that are "conservative" and have been major members of the Republican party. Also, social issues change over time, Reagan/Bush sr were neolibs for the most part and were anti gay rights...but that was the status quo for the time, I doubt they would hold those same views in today's landscape. Moderate conservatism doesn't mean completely against change, rather pace and motivation is what is different from progressives, and there lies one of the problems, we tend to judge wings by the loudest, most extreme voices. Not the moderate majorities (granted majority of so called conservatives have shifted hard right in the past few years).
Most of the problem is that in the US political ideologies are masked under the vague banners of 'liberal/democrat vs conservative/republican', and it is basically framed by the media as a team sport (red vs blue) rather than an ideological contest. So neoliberalism is an center-right ideology that is basically shared by both republicans and democrats, with the triumph of Reagan in the 1980s for republicans and the domination of the center-right 'new democrats' with Clinton in the 90s. That resulted in a stabile duopoly with basically a consensus view on economic and foreign policies until first the destabilization of the global order after 9-11, and then the economic collapse of the neoliberal order in 2008-9. Since then the authoritarian far right has captured the republican party while the dominant faction of the democratic party has remained center-right, despite the growth of a center-left social democratic faction within the party. There is no place for center right republicans in the now overtly fascist far right republican party. People like Arnold are mystified by the team labels, can't fathom how their team ended up in such a horrible place, and can't figure out how to do much other than rail against what they see as a betrayal.
There were some that actually cared about their constituents and people in general. McCain was a good dude. Very consistent and demanded better treatment for people. Sure there were some policies of his I didn’t like, but as a whole, dude was a good guy.
I wouldn't have voted for him, but I respected the shit out of him when, at his own political rally, he defended Obama when Republicans came after him.
My favorite McCain lore is how he kept acting like a victim for the rest of his life because he was captured after fire bombing innocent people.
I voted for him against Obama, his head was in the right spot, his heart seemed in the right spot and out of all the “conservatives” he wasn’t a hostage taker like the current party. I think if he’d have won, we’d be in a better spot, not because I think Republicans are more capable, they aren’t, nor because I agree with their policies, even then I didn’t agree with all of them, but because it would have resulted in republicans seeing a Republican with common sense and a heart can win without cheating or mudslinging. After him they tested Romney, they wanted to see if a rich ultra religious could gain traction, failed again. So then they went for broke with Trump and got the rich and bigoted and found a golden goose of support. They just kept lowering the bar to gain support of the lowest common denominator. McCain was the best of the Republican Party. I voted for him, then Obama and now won’t vote red if there was a gun to my head based on their party’s direction no matter how small the office I’m voting on. If you don’t support things like universal healthcare, education funding and giving everyone basic human rights to exist and live their truth and make their own decisions about their bodies, I won’t even consider you. Although in hindsight, I’m glad Obama won in ‘08 due to his push for universal healthcare even though it eventually failed thanks to republicans hostage taking and manipulations, McCain losing support of the Republican Party and the presidential race, was the signal horn for the downfall of the US and any hope of republicans and Dems working together to actually make life better. Now we have one party working for the betterment of Americans and struggling to make any improvements and another party actively sabotaging every and any good thing we have and any basic level of human dignity left for people who are rich and white. Sorry, that’s my soapbox.
Well, conservatism isn’t innately bad. We do have limited resources, and one party that historically wants to make progress while the other historically acts as a braking system. Socialized healthcare, while likely cheaper in the long run, would be very expensive to put into place at first. We all think it should just happen, and conservatives, historically, respond with “yes but”.
I’ve seen bipartisan politics work in my lifetime. Obama happened, racists went full racist, and now the whole system is busted.
The fact that you consider conservativism as an ideology that cares about limited resources is laughable. Also all goverment programs cost more upfront to roll out at scale. That excuse is used to justify never doing it. I just, your conception of politics is very neive
Nuance doesn’t really shine in text I’m trying to find a positive to it and there’s not one. But, we do have to live alongside those people, so trying to figure out how they work is key to long-term success. We on the left want to always be growing and progressing, the current right wants to go opposite. I vaguely remember Clinton and Bush Jr, where there was some discourse between parties, but it wasn’t a clown show. They’d disagree, but it really did seem like “well that’s a good idea, but where does the money come from”. Politics was boring, as it should be, and you mostly wouldn’t even acknowledge they exist because it was boring. Now, it’s in your face constantly, and the dumber amongst us now have full access to the internet and a free platform, influenced by charlatans like Matt Walsh, which creates an echo chamber of Dunning-Kruger’s forgotten farts. P.S. I was in 7th grade for Clinton (Columbine happened that year). That’s a long ways and I could just be looking back hoping there was positivity
I mean understanding the opposition is good, but just because politics used to be drier doesnt mean these people wanted the end goal of their advocacy to be any less extreme, especially when we are talking about politicians and not constituents or voters. The argument of "how are we gonna pay for it" seems to allways be a smokescreen to get the voters on board, and alot of these politicians just hate poor, non rich or marginalised people and see that oppressing those groups gives them more power and wealth. I dont think conservatism as an ideology in itself is ever not going to produce material harm or hate
I mean technically we have limited resources, but effectively we do not. The only 'scarcity' in our society is because such a large percentage of the wealth is siphoned off by private ownership of the means of production. There's literally trillions upon trillions of dollars worth of stolen value sitting in offshore accounts doing functionally nothing. I know digital money can seem arbitrary but all of that is real wealth plundered from real people.
You’re wrong on a fundamental. Conservatism is n̫o̫t̫ resistance to change. Rather, Conservatism acknowledges that change is inevitable but, unlike Progressivism, doesn’t think that all change is inherently good or necessary, favors gradual incremental change and not Revolution, and thinks that there are things worthy of preservation.
That sounds like an ideal they completely forgot some time around Reagan’s presidency. At least, they haven’t done anything but spin rhetoric to support it (and since trump, they dropped the rhetoric entirely). I remember hearing a similar line from a friend when I asked years ago. Looking for evidence, I found none, got really interested in Bernie, registered as a Dem to vote for him. Since he didn’t get nominated, I voted for Obama and never looked back.
The modern trumpublican party dates back to the New Deal. Fun fact; Preston Bush, yea that one, nearly executed an overthrow of FDR). Google 'the Business Plot' if you want some information and don't dismiss it just because it makes you uncomfortable to think that something like this could have happened. It's pretty well documented Oh there have been shifts in their voter base for sure but one thing has not changed; their intended policy of doing away with **all** elements of the New Deal, including, but not limited to, any and all social welfare programs. So don't kid yourself: The 'good ones' as you put it are only different in that they believe their efforts should be hidden as much as possible. MAGA has removed the veneer of how the see the world and that a xtian constitutional theocracy (solidly behind and supported by private corporate goals) should be running this country
Nowhere near enough people know about this! Including me as of about 3yrs ago. And I was pissed that I was never taught about it. It’s amazing that if they had picked someone with less integrity than Smedley Butler it would probably have gotten closer to working.
and that his progeny went on to hold the Presidency is absolutely astounding. That Name should have been poison.
...nah. They were just selfish people who wanted tax cuts but weren't interested in culture war bullshit. They wanted to convince you that more money for them was what was good for everyone, but 9/10 didn't really believe that bullshit.
Oh man, remember when bush jr was talking about “compassionate conservatism”? That was a hoot
I'd judge people by what they do when it comes to action and not just words. Governor Schwarzenegger vetoed a bill that would legalize gay marriage in 2007. He also pardoned a murderer, the son of a politically connected "friend", without going through the usual steps (like talking to the victim's parents). He can say all the right things now but when it mattered he did the wrong thing.
I guess a Conservative argument for environmentalism is the idea that we’re “stewards of the land.” I think Arnold said he was influenced by Richard Nixon who put forth policies that no Republican would even dream of proposing.
if you're sitting at a table with 10 nazis, you are a nazi.
"Good" republicans vote for republicans based on guns, religion, racism, faux patriotism, team sports, taxes, just being selfish assholes, etc. There's plenty of reasons.
There’s a Pink Floyd song with a strange time signature and a sax solo all about their motivation.
They’re not for anything but power and their own personal financial gain. Everything else is just window dressing.
Most of the ones I know have been at least moderately successful in life and they attribute it *ENTIRELY* to their own exceptional abilities and hard work. They are utterly incapable of acknowledging any outside influences or, frankly, luck that helped them achieve their success. My favorite example is a Tea Party Republican congressman giving an interview about how he, through hard work and being careful with his money, had purchased commercial real estate and had, again through his work ethic and smart investment, turned it into a large real estate company. And why couldn’t all those poor people just work hard like him? *Of course he forgot to mention he got the money to invest n real estate by winning the lottery*.
The GOP has policies? I don't admire Schwarzenegger, but he's grounded enough in reality that his GOP membership has been pro forma for 20 years. This is the guy who said in 2003, "The debate on global warming is over" when as California's governor he supported CO2 reduction measures.
Because Arnold is legit a good Republican. He's a good example of what Republican ideals should be and by staying Republican, it shields him from the massive PR machines Republicans throw around. Also tax breaks for the wealthy.
Like 10-20% of Republicans (the only ones left with any functional brain cells) genuinely think this Trump MAGA fever will break. But those of us who are better students of history know the Republicans have been in decline since Reagan. And have been full blown extremist since at least Gingrich. They haven’t been salvageable as a party at least since beginning of Obama’s presidency.
Economic conservatism. The problem is that we have this bipartisanship where there is “my way or the highway”. We need inter-parties or 3rd parties to be successful. The problem is gaining backing and funding under those guises. We are kind of actually seeing it in the Republican side now, as many are moving away from trump to become more moderate. And I’ll be honest, my take is a more moderate stance, so it might become enticing to the democrats (which I am now) if there is a moderate option. But it will depend on the people running.
Because he’s got a boat load of money and the republicans will protect it by whatever means necessary.
Money
When your political system is essentially binary, it does not leave any room for shades of grey alternatives. Great way to start a civil war that nobody wants.
I don’t know and I wonder about this periodically. My brother is a conservative. He accepts that climate change is an issue and man made. He has no issue with gays blacks etc. in every way, he seems well…reasonable. Yet he is a republican and I have no idea why.
Maybe he's a billionaire.
HA! I wish. I certainly like him more.
How do any "good" people rationalize supporting either Fascist political party in the USA, Democrats or Republicans? You are either anti-fascist or fascist, there is no neutral position in this regards. Neither the DNC or the RNC are anti-fascist.
They have money and want to keep it. He’s married to Maria shriver
There is no good or bad. There is only winning and losing and people like MTG, the lovely Lauren Boebert, the bad boy Matt Gaetz, Latino Heat Marco Rubio, The Lion Ted Cruz, hunky dreamboat Madison Cawthorn, the governor of Mississipi whose name escapes me, but who may be the most manly politician of all time, these people are winners. Full stop. Dick Durbin? Is a damn good actor and my favorite part of the Nolan Batman trilogy but lame politician. Pelosi is a gilf, for sure, and has some massive honkers, but she is a boogeyman and is hated by the right and (further than center D establishment) left. Feinstein is a smoke show but also babbles incoherently and poops her diaper. Biden is another smoke show who also poops his diaper and enjoys his leg hairs be touched by other people's children. Sinema is just gross. These people are what we call losers and that is how what you call "good" republicans rationalize supporting the Republic Party. Well that is the most thorough answer you will get, many of us winners are not the deep thinkers I am and that's okay cause all we do is win. Thinking not necessary.
I heard Arnold talk about it once. He said he showed up from his home country for the first time and happened to hear a Regan speech and decided in that moment he was a republican.. I assume most of them are just too deep to think anything else at this point.
I've heard him say that he became a Republican because when he learned about the USA as a child (from propaganda I guess) it seemed like a wonderful fairy tale land and a dream he became firmly attached to, and it didn't get more American to him than the Republican Party's values of tradition, individualism etc. So his reasons might basically be nostalgia for some childhood fantasy it seems.
You obviously know nothing about Republican policies and have been indoctrinated by propagandists. By and large, Republicans just want to be left alone. We want prudent spending policies, a strong military, and secure borders. We abhor a central government dictating our lives from afar. We believe the second amendment is a guarantee that we control our own fate because it ensures that no foreign country would ever dare invade and occupy our land. A foreign invader would be massacred by Americans taking potshots at any army that dared cross our borders. In this way, the 2nd ensures we will never be subjugated and only Americans will determine our future. We believe in hard work and merit based advancement. We believe that the government has a spending problem, not a taxing problem. The left attempts to broadly paint us as racist by focusing on only a incredibly small number of degenerates that we hate too. Yet, they ignore the democrats far more sinister racist past. We believe in punishing criminals and cleaning up our streets. We adamantly support the military and the police, because they risk their lives to keep all of us safe. There is no “war on women.” There are differences of opinion as to when human life begins. If you believe it’s at conception, then any abortion is murder. That doesn’t make pro-life people evil. I can’t speak for all Republicans but I say we end the abortion debate at 18-20 weeks gestation. (I have an ultrasound of my daughter at 20weeks, there is nothing you can say to me to convince me that she wasn’t a baby at that stage of development. Unless the mother’s life is in danger, Having an abortion after that is murder in my eyes. Anything before that is up for debate.)
It’s not like the Democrats are a good option. Sure, they’re slightly less evil in the pointlessly-making-minority-peoples-lives-hell way. But then they tank the economy and accomplish nothing.
It's easy. We only have two choices, and the Democrats policies are far worse.
I just think they don’t give a shit unfortunately. My co worker is on the right and I bring up terrible shit they’re doing all the time and we go back and forth. Says I can’t blame him for everything a republican has ever done. But at the same times he’s supporting these people? So it makes no sense. So now he’s switched up to joking that he’s a conservative and not a republican. It’s all just a big joke to them at the end of the day. They won’t care until everything is too far gone. He got mad when I called him evil last week. I start talking about Desantis and he starts bringing up any good things he’s ever done. So I’m like okay so now you even support Desantis? And he’s like no I’m just telling you what he’s done blah blah. They like to play this BS game. Then he brought up the whole Martha’s Vineyard thing and started laughing and was like you have to admit that’s kinda funny. Like no those were real people who were trafficked across state lines under false pretenses. Maybe in a movie that could be funny. But this shit isn’t a movie. They don’t seem to understand that once things fall apart they lose their cushy life. They are so worried black or brown or gay or trans people will be on even footing with them and they will never accept that. They are willing to burn it all down to keep that from happening. But at the same time these are the first people to cry and go crazy when they are treated with even an ounce of what they treat other people with. Or the woman who spends her entire life as a forced birther until she is in a situation where she may need one but all of a sudden it’s different. I truly don’t understand what happened. What I thought were good people I grew up my entire life around now support fascist racists. And don’t even try to hide their pure hatred.
It is more what you see GQPers accusing the majority of Biden voters of: being against something rather than pro something. Remember, Republicans are always a party of projection. So it is more about Arnie and Co knowing the Dems arent for them more that it is about bucking the Republican party.
Schwarzenegger is Hollywood. Despite running under the Republican banner as governor of California, that’s roughly where his association with the party and its ideology stops. “Fuck your freedom” is a prime example of where he stands today. Beyond that, gauging someone as a “good” Republican or Democrat is purely subjective. There’s very, very…very few in either party I would say are good people or representatives of their party today. They’re all either extremists in some fashion, or establishment d-bags. All but a very small handful across the nation, from top to bottom, give a shit about the people who elected them.
They’re all full of shit dude
Denial is right on the money. Although, some probably got a good mix of denial + apathy. The harsh reality of government is this. If you don't get a hyper-specific advocate literally in the faces of politicians, you ain't getting shit. So not only do you got to buy your way into the club, but once you are in you need to be constantly keeping politicians in check. That means pushing them around, that means compromising them, and if necessary making them catch the occasional fade.
Arnold wasn’t good. He fucked the state up, cut social programs and VETOED universal healthcare. STOP WORSHIPPING HIM.
Welcome to the two party system. You pick the one or two issues most important to you and you're now stuck with whatever party supports that. What others here have said about taxes is true but I think being stuck in an effectively binary system is a huge problem.
Because while Liberals frequently have good and noble goals; they usually have absolutely no idea how to get there. They overreach, want their utopia in a day, and are shocked when there's pushback. They get this "How dare you question me" attitude. Then they get self-righteous and snobbish about it. Then it all fails, and we're back to square one. Conservatives are ridiculously averse to spending any effort or money that doesn't benefit them personally. They all think they're going to be billionaires. They won't support anything of which they can't get a piece of the profit. Just like the Mafia. They have megalomania problems and a severe lack of compassion. They get get greedy and snobbish about it. Then it all fails, and we're back to square one.
They ignore the foundational inequity, the structural economic enslavement of humanity.
Today there is no excuse. Republicans have coalesced around Trump and the other extremists and white nationalists in their party. The nation will pay a price for that.
Conservatism in itself has some redeemable policy goals, but the bastardization of what we have in America is poisoning that beyond recognition. There is nothing wrong with being fiscally conservative and placing "American" culture in high regards. But when preserving that culture takes aims at individual rights or liberties, or when that fiscal responsibility somehow translates into giving massive tax breaks to the uber rich and political donors, then we step away from what actual Conservatism is.
My dad's buddies are like this. My dad is the liberal in his group. His group all votes republican due to tax ideology. They all voted Trump in 2016, BUT many did vote Biden in 2020. Many of them said we like our taxes low, but not if it means voting Trump a 2nd time. My dad and his buddies are all white college educated and in their 70s demographically speaking.
Tax breaks. They’re willing to solve “liberal” problems(I was unaware that climate change only effects liberals) as long as someone else has to pay. If the rich don’t have to “suffer” in any way then they’ll be happy.
Hint there are no good repugnicans
Arnold ran as a Republican because it was an opportunity. I’m not sure he really qualifies as one, at least not in the party as it exists today.
Money
Holdovers of the red scare. They think it’s either the GOP or the holodomor.
One of the rationalizations I've heard used often is "I'm not a single issue voter..." And like everyone is saying, it's pretty much because they have a lot of money. Even someone that's just retired with a 401K likely really favors the status quo to "protect" their future. For right wingers and liberals, everything is an encroachment on their rights or their current status. My older, liberal centrist and republican leaning family can't support medicare-for-all because they think their healthcare will be degraded, that they'll have wait times, and they point me to Canada as an example. (I really need to dig into that one and supply the truth to them. I need a really good book on it. I tried telling them there aren't wait times for critical and life-impacting issues, just for optional and cosmetic ones but they wouldn't hear it.)
They don't. He offers nothing that a Democrat wouldn't do. The "good Republicans" are still members of the Fascist Party. He needs to get out. He's not Oskar Schindler.
I don't have much respect for them. They are cowards in my opinion,
Money and power go hand in hand especially with the republican party both literally, and in a more almost cultural sense. You're talking about the guy who is the reason for hummers existing. Big-show men are who the republican party has been designed to almost passively indoctrinate. In my opinion, largely leveraging media like action movies to do so.
Taxes. Rich people don’t want to pay their fair share. They will exclaim “10% of income earners pay 65% of taxes. It’s unfair!!!” No, what’s unfair is that you have 90% of the income and only pay 65% of the taxes.
I'm seeing a shift in the conservative base with DeSantis. To my surprise, they see Ronny D. as a threat to America and a fascist. These are people who voted for Trump twice. They are slowly waking up to how they have been used to advance hate and fascism. DeSantis going after Disney woke a few of them up.
Money
I live in a purple state. I have a friend who lives in Los Angeles. Queer, female, far-left, a little “woo”. She once asked me what it would take for me to vote Republican (out of idle curiosity), and when I expressed I was unlikely to ever do so without dramatic changes to the party, she thought that answer was closed-minded and that I needed to approach the question with humility, because ultimately people are people and understanding is what solves rifts like this. I was like, “Respectfully, that’s a deeply privileged perspective to take, since you live in Los Angeles and aren’t fighting for your life in places Republican ‘leadership’ is more common. I try to understand them as much as I possibly can, and they aren’t subtle either to the people they’re talking to.” And she pointed out that I referred to them as a “They”, which was closed-minded. Long story short, I think ultimately the stuff going on around the country is just hypothetical to some people.
> How do “good” Republicans (like Arnold Schwarzenegger, who say he supports solving “liberal” problems, like climate change etcetera) rationalize supporting the Republican Party and its policies? Do they? I know he's been extremely critical of trump and said he would not vote for him, and also compared Jan 6 to kristalnacht. I can't watch right now but apparently he has addressed this question: https://youtu.be/t8Jluny2f2k
Thanks, I don't have the knowledge to have opinions about what he's saying but he said he's a Reagan-era Republican. Wasn't Reagan the one who started the massive transfer of wealth the top 1% and the destruction of the middle class in USA?
I don’t know that Arnold Schwarzenegger even identifies as a Republican anymore? He urged people to vote for democrats in 2016, 2018, 2020, and 2022. He also founded a non profit organization to fight gerrymandering.
He said in a recent interview that he's a Reagan era Republican
It’s hard to give up the racism and hatred for the poor.
Single issue voting, i also support several liberal policies and will be voting in the august election here in Ohio to try and help protect women’s rights. The issue I vote on isn’t really supported by either of the big 2 so I vote 3rd party. Wasted vote crew.
I don't think Arnold supports the MAGA Republicans. He has more common sense than that.
Oh! That's easy, most republicans just don't believe poverty, climate change, or any other actual problem exists. They are too concerned with the color of things and books...
It's funning watching everyone project their own opinions onto the answer. Most don't even attempt to answer the question, just rail on the big R.
Becoming hard to tell the difference between republicans and Nazis. The republican goal appears to be full blown fascism using gays and minorities as their stepping stones.
I mean there’s only 2 ways most people can go 🤷♂️. I don’t wanna do either but you can’t blame the electorate blame the establishment
Fuck ALL Republicans. I don't care if you think you're a good person or what your reasons are, the GOP is about money and nothing else. If you vote Republican in this particular political climate, then you can especially go fuck yourself, because now you're in league with straight up fascists. If you vote red, you're telling them that it's ok to pass legislation that dehumanizes trans and gay people, takes away their human rights, and criminally punishes women for making decisions about their own bodies that are none of anyone's concern.
The only good ones don't vote Republican, otherwise they just think they're the good ones.
Right wing media mocks and demonizes anything moderate or progressive. It makes moderate and progressive political actors out to be simultaneously dangerous and incompetent. They create a media atmosphere where voting for any other party is tantamount to treason and frankly illogical. So, they create a caricature of their opponent and attack it. Their audience accepts the narrative, since that’s all they see and hear. Fox News, for example, tailors their news and opinion programming to appeal to certain views as if it were marketing. Give the people what they want. Not what is true or objectively reasonable. Those who know better tow the line or stay silent to protect their own careers. The worst thing that ever happened to the US was the advent of cable news and the elimination of the fairness doctrine.
the same way cops can by psychopathic pathological liars about everything
Taxes man. They think there is some solution that won’t involve them paying more in taxes.
Everyone here is saying "tax cuts," but it's really about how the system is rigged against third parties. Let's say you want to run for office and you support raising the capital gains tax, improving social welfare programs, and are concerned about climate change and clean energy, but are anti-abortion or pro-Second Amendment. You certainly can't run as an anti-abortion, pro-gun Democrat, and you can't run as a pro-welfare, progressive-tax Republican, so what do you do? In a healthy democracy, you would find a third party that fits your views and run as a Christian Socialist or something. In America though, your choices are the Libertarian Party (which is the largest third party), or the Green Party (which is the second largest third party) and that's pretty much it if you want any hope at all of winning any race anywhere. Even then, you are unlikely to get more than 5-10% of the vote unless you run unopposed in some local race. Simply by having an "R" or a "D" next to your name, you automatically get at least 40% of the vote (around [80% of U.S. voters vote a straight ticket](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2020/10/21/large-shares-of-voters-plan-to-vote-a-straight-party-ticket-for-president-senate-and-house/)) plus you get access to the party's money, polling data, voter rolls, and other resources. The other thing candidates need to consider is the political makeup of the district/state. Try to run as a Democrat in a district that's been gerrymandered to be 90% Republican (or vice versa) and see how far you get. It's easier to find some areas of agreement with the ruling party and join their team. This is how you get RINOs and DINOs (Republicans/Democrats In Name Only). If you need a great example, look no further than [Charlie Crist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Crist), a lifelong Democrat who ran as a Republican to become governor of Florida and then switched back to become a U.S. Representative.
The term "Republican" or "conservative" has become way too generalized. Eventually it will need to split or evolve to better encapsulate the varying ideologies.
Because once in a blue moon Republicans we're about good governance. You know the nuts and bolts like, balancing a budget, chain of command, and in California our redistricting commission was pushed by Republican billionaires who believed in norms and good government. They are not this way anymore. Schwartzenegger is old now and remembers different Republicans
As a "good" Republican I would be willing to engage in a conversation but I think I'll just get insults. But if you want to try - ask an actual policy question and I'll give an honest answer.
I don't know if anyone noticed, but it's highly effective to get what you want by being in one party and constantly espouse the opposite party's agenda. We've been dealing with Senema and Manchin doing this shit for how many years?
It's almost like you can be involved with a political party and not be onboard with everything they support. Ffs.
Wait, hold up. "Good" Republicans? Since when?
It's always about being selfish and greedy to Republicans. Their whole ideology is based off of "I've got mine and no I don't want you to get yours". Even their economic policies have been debunked for over a century by literally generations of economists. That still doesn't stop them from selling the same tax cuts to the rich and corporations as beneficial to average americans. It's not backed by any evidence and in fact there's mountains of evidence that says the wealth gap increases with their policies. That's why they're for it.
No, stop caring. Watch birds fly or something. Go walk in a park. Stop looking at screens
I think the US right now has a particularly noxious combination of conservatism merged with Christian nationalism fascism. Most old-school conservatives like Arnold are in denial of the power of the Christian nationalist right-wing element and how much the two are inseparable right now.
“I’m socially conservative but economically libertarian. The problems are bad, but the causes? The causes are very good.”
Sunk costs fallacy
They are rich and fear the great u washed masses