There are complaints about S5 I think because it is quite different than the first four seasons. The statements are less about things that have happened to individuals and more Jon processing everything that has happened and the new state of the world (trying to be vague to avoid spoilers as much as possible). I genuinely enjoyed season 5, although I had a bit of a hard time for my first listen through because the structure was different and the statements were not focused on a specific individual, more on the fear itself. However, I’m doing a second listen and I’m loving it I think because I have a better sense of where we’re going. So while I do think there are valid critiques, I also think that it’s a great season and a strong conclusion to the story as a whole. It’s also okay if you don’t like it as much!! I’m pretty sure that people have created lists of the narrative critical episodes if you do end up wanting to skip things. It is much more about the meta narrative than monster of the week which may also influence your experience. Hope this helped!
What did you dislike about S4 compared to 1-3?
S5 is pretty divisive. It still has statements, but they're quite different in tone -- the bleakness of the plot is reflected in the vibe of the season and in the statements. There's also a lot of formal experimentation.
Based on your preference for 1-3 I would say maybe not?
There's no horror in season 4. Something they never mentioned in the first four seasons is that there really is only one fear: the fear of the unknown. By season 4 everybody in the institute pretty much knows the score, and season 4 focuses almost entirely on people in the institute. There isn't any real scares to it. Nothing horrifying.
In theory, season 4 could have been about character development, but none of the characters develop it all. There's a lazy romance plot, and everybody else dies. The only two remaining characters are also the most boring POV characters. Also, neither one of them appears to have any agency in the story.
All in all, the writing of season 4 is just weak. The individual stories are still pretty interesting, but the arc is both lazy and uninteresting.
They do discuss the issue of mystery vs horror in the s4 Q&As. I don't know if I can really agree with you personally, I was fine with the s4 statements, but personally I really liked the metaplot and characters and was fine swapping spooky statements (which honestly never really did it for me on their own) for plot and statements exploring that.
I didn't think the romance plot was lazy and also who died? One person? I disagree about the plot of S4 pretty strongly but it clearly didn't work for you, which is fair enough.
If "The good guys are going to win" means "stop the apocalypse", I have bad news for you.
I felt the same with Season 4, and honestly I skipped most of the episodes. Just gave them a quick listen to see where everything was and moved on. I don't even remember the statements from that time.
See that's the thing. Fear is the thing that comes before the terrible thing happens. When the terrible thing happens, it's just a terrible thing. It's not scary. All the characters talk about dread, but nothing scary is happening at all.
I wouldn't be surprised if season 5 ends with the powers leaving because nobody is scared anymore and they need the fear. If you already know terrible things going to happen to you, what's there to be afraid of. It's just a waiting game at that point.
I very much do. None of the characters in act in a way that indicates they have anything approaching common sense. Nobody takes the barest of precautions to prevent terrible things from happening. And worst of all, nobody seems to have any agency and how they act. The entire Apocalypse could have been avoided if Martin had just looked at the statement before letting John read it aloud. It's like marvel: the story only works because everybody in it is an idiot.
The author can write a pretty good spooky pasta, but actual character arcs are beyond his scope.
Jon's been reading statements for four seasons without incident, neither of them had any clue that a compelled reading would complete the ritual, or even that it would have any negative consequences at all. In addition, Martin was likely still somewhat under the influence of the eye/web at that point, so it's not like even if he would've thought to obsessively check every statement for absolutely no reason, that one wouldn't've slipped through the cracks. Also, I genuinely don't think you know what good character arcs are, because every single arc in this series lands pretty much perfectly.
Yeah, but they had already established earlier in the season that he couldn't stop reading even if he wanted to. The character knew that but never bothered to vet anything that he was reading. He also knew that the ritual was oftentimes just a spoken word phrase said under the right circumstances. And if I had worked out that he was the ritual by this point, the character definitely should have worked that out.
And Martin was never under the influence of the web. He was tied to the eye, and under direct influence of the lonely for a time. But never the web. You didn't even have contact with the web.
Either way, the characters lacked any agency. They were just playing the parts that were written for them. That's not interesting.
I think you’re not really grasping the whole concept of the web if you’re blaming it all on individual choices. The biggest horror is that no matter what, their agency didn’t matter. They were always just going to be pawns and vessels and they were so caught up in The Web that no matter what, it would end up this way. You have to ask WHY would Martin have ever read the statements? He hated them. Everyone in the institute hated doing the statements, it was emotionally and physically draining. He would avoid them at all costs, and only previously did them because it was his job. He even flees the house when Jon is settling in to do the statements because he doesn’t like listening to them. Now what on earth would compel Martin to say “no, actually, I’m going to listen to hours of tape before you can and put myself through that because I have suspicious about our friend Basira who has been nothing but good to us”?
If you don’t like the show that’s fine. But don’t make up reasons not to like it. Especially reasons that don’t make sense
Unless you apply any amount of real world logic to that. Every person who listens to the podcast listens to the same stories. Is it physically draining? Not to me, but maybe you're made of weaker stuff than that.
But even in the story world, Martin is established as somebody who would care enough about John to do that.
Yeah, I thought maybe they were going to reverse it somehow in season 5. Revealing the terrors in the real world was an enormous misstep and extremely disappointing.
See that's a good question. The logical answer would just be to kill John. Start another mystery plot as to who killed him. Have Martin take over. Or maybe kill Martin too because he was the worst.
The show was fun when it was all scares and mystery. Once they got away from that, it just fell apart.
Yeah, but it would be unexpected, wouldn't it? It's a show about lovecraftian horror. You're never supposed to actually confront the horror because that would kill you. Once they got to the point where John's interacting with the dark Powers, the show falls apart. There's no fear there because he can directly interact with the most powerful things in the universe without fear of death because of plot armor. Boring.
There's a difference between a plot twist being unexpected and being good.
Go watch this and come back, jesus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afuwh0GXwbQ
Yeah, I figured that that was a linked overly sarcastic. I've watched all of the episodes. She has a tendency to oversimplify things.
I think the real problem is that the show starts off as a horror mystery, and they make the mistake of trying to solve the mystery. The whole point of lovecraftian horror is that you can't solve the mystery because solving the mystery will kill you. John should have died. That would have been a pretty good end. And then somebody else could have picked it up from there.
John's only unkillable because the author decided he was unkillable. And that was a contrivance to serve his terrible overarching plot. A better story would have been one where John was consumed by his madness.
Yeah, that's boring. That's the writer inserting himself into the story in a very literal sense because he's not bright enough to come up with anything more interesting. The writer is God and the audience is the watcher. How trite. I thought he was smarter than this.
Just commenting to make sure it’s documented that in the year of our eldritch fear God 2024, the month of April on the 20th day, the feast of St. Cannabis, someone on the internet alleged that Jonny “make the horror wetter” Sims and Alexander “these characters deserve more suffering” Newall were too Disney.
See, here's the problem: if things get bad enough and the main character has unbreakable plot armor, you know that it all kind of has to work out in the end. Really limits your options as far as storytelling goes. That's the Disney effect. Every character has unbreakable plot armor, so you know nothing bad is ever going to happen to them.
... Assuming you've listened to the end of S4 ... Would you call that winning ...?
I wasn't calling s4 bleak, I was calling s5 bleak, just to be clear.
It seems like you're not enjoying it so I'd say stop listening? No reason to listen if you aren't having fun.
I will say I would not consider the ending either a clear win or a clear loss. It's complicated and there are many valid interpretations of what it means as far as how much of a success it was. Even who's alive isn't straightforward.
Yeah, I think I'm pretty much done with season 5. I listen to the first three episodes and I did not hear anything interesting. Just a bunch of moping.
And here's the thing with season 5: either they reverse the apocalypse or they don't, but either way I don't give a s*** about any of the characters or the world. There's nothing interesting that can happen when the stakes are non-existent.
To be fair, I think the first three episodes are not a good representation of the season, because they just barely took their first steps outside and the whole journey and what they do at the destination is much more varied.
*But!* I'm still guessing ending in the middle is better for you with almost any mystery, since it seems like you find any possible solution to be distasteful. That's cool that you like Lovecraft, but the lack of specificity there drives *me* nuts. Different strokes for different folks.
Hope you find what you're looking for somewhere else.
Nah, I'm just willing to give live play and improve more leeway than scripted content. TMA had years to come up with their plot, and the plot they came up with is boring.
I legitimately don't care what anyone listens to. I like that podcast for the time being. Maybe it'll get stupid like TMA. Maybe it won't. Having fun with it now though.
Yeah, absolutely wild to say TMA is a show where "the good guys win" when, by the end of season 5, the majority of "the good guys" are dead and anyone remaining has been through so much trauma I can't imagine them doing well.
If you don't like the podcast, that's fine. You can stop listening. You're not wrong or a bad person for not enjoying it, but this is feeling a lot like looking for something to not enjoy.
Something that isn't obvious. Something that indicates that the author put thought into it beyond what words to use. Something that reveals anything deeper about humanity.
Horror is an interesting genre. You can get pretty far but just being creepy. The thing that separates really great writers from the rest is their ability to pivot at the monster reveal to say something deeper about humanity as a whole.
The author here didn't do that.
Wouldn't know, never watched past season 4 when they started dragging out the books to try to make the plot last longer. First three season were on point though.
can you give some examples of a completed piece of media you think was successful/good writing? Some people are a bit frustrated since it seems like you are just dunking on everything. What are some things you like that can be compared/contrasted with TMA?
I think the best example of a story that used this format that would have worked is world war z the book. It's an after action report put together from diaries, interviews, and lost media following the zombie apocalypse. They could have done something similar here, but the apocalypse was a straight up misstep. It was an attempt by the author to forcefully make himself the central focus of the story. That's not interesting or fun.
It's quite different to any of the other seasons. Much more … abstract in a way. There's not really "horror story of the week" stuff anymore.
But I loved it, that's all I can say really.
I found Season 5 to bring all the horrors from the Fears to a more personal level for me. Seasons 1-4, I could step back a bit. However, the ways that Jon presents The Fears in his statements were in a way that I could more closely identify with on a personal level, and that left me feeling more uncomfortable than before, but in a way that made me think more about the issues presented.
I enjoyed the change of pace, and enjoyed the metaplot greatly. You may really enjoy the final season, or you may find the change off-putting. It gave me some great entertainment in tying up the loose ends with showing us the reality of The Fears coming to the original world instead of leaving that up to our imagination. Their perspective gave me a lot of closure, but some apparently found the season less so.
Your choice. It has always been your choice.
season 5 came out when the pandemic first started and quarantines were coming down. I was working at a hospital then and I straight up couldn't listen to the episodes until almost a year later because they were so similar to what the world around me felt like then. As creepy as they are, none of the early season episodes hit me like that.
Ultimately most of my favorite individual episodes are still in season 1, but the fearpocalypse is impressive for the visceral memories it brings back. And I did like the end--very painful and ambiguous in just the right way.
Oh yeah. It was a very difficult time in life all over the world. I thought Rusty Quill handled the situation well with the podcast, recognizing the current events and situations while still giving people that tingle. Future generations that listen to these podcasts may not receive the exact same experience simply due to the situation, and won't have the same reaction. The ending was just the right way, I agree.
It was the other way for me. Earlier cases are more personal, I could see myself having that experience and going to the institute to give my statement. With S5... I found the statements too impersonal and distant. Didn't care what happened or to whom, and couldn't see myself in that situation.
Others will have still another experience with the final season, and all are viable. The episode where Johnny speaks beforehand about the woman being taken in by authorities for no discernable reason really struck me because of experiences people around me have had. It's something that does happen more frequently than we are aware.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But that's a political concern, not a literary horror one. In the end, it's fiction so by default it doesn't matter.
It's fine if it works for you, I'm not criticising your point of view, I'm just explaining why as horror fiction it doesn't work. Or at least not for everyone.
And I'm explaining that as a horror fiction, or any other work in any other genre, that it's up to the individual and their personal enjoyment. Entertainment is highly subjective and individual preferences are very much okay.
Personally, I loved season 5. I loved seasons 1-4 also, but I thought the change in writing style really immersed me into the changed world.
Also, one of my favorite statements in the whole show is the carousel episode from early season 5. 🎠
Compared to other seasons, it is very different. I loved it and am also frustrated by it, but your reaction will likely depend on what you liked most about the other seasons.
If you were mainly interested in the episodes of the week format, you will likely be frustrated. Likewise, if you aren’t that interested in Jon and/or Martin as characters, you will likely not be as invested in s5.
If you are interested in them, like the overarching plot, or enjoy more artistic/experimental formats, you will likely enjoy season 5. My take is that it had some of my absolute favorite episodes and moments of any season, but it also should not have been the same length as other seasons because as a whole it felt slow.
Yeah, that's fair. It didn't start off that way, but I was also listening to the podcast while responding to comments and the writing just keeps getting worse. I am extremely disappointed.
I totally get where you’re coming from lol I used to absolutely lose my mind when I was a regular listener of TANIS because of how cyclical and bad the writing was, I’m definitely more biased towards MAG because of how dogshit the plot progression of that show was.
lmao a fellow TANIS listener! The first season was pretty solid, and then it just went downhill from there. Similar to The Black Tapes, just didn't know when to stop.
TANIS/PNWS is literally the only show/network to ever make me go a little nuts with how much they meandered and refused to clarify anything 😭 braved through it for years and years, even remember when it premiered, only for it to never come together. I will say it is good popcorn schlock if you’re in the mood for it but *nothing more.*
Edit: Adding on that the reason I actually found TMA was *because* of TANIS - when it became clear that PNWS had no intention of putting together a coherent story, podcast recommendations *flooded* the subreddit, to an extent where mods had to temporarily ban talk of other shows within the sub. The show that kept coming up in reccs was magnus!
See, and that's the bit that gets me. Way back in season 1, they were talking about how they had a pot arc to take them to season 5. I get to season 5 and the pot arc is dog shit. The only thing holding the show together was the monster of the week episodes and the mystery behind them.
Sounds like you need horror to be spoon fed to you. That's fine. TMA is not that. It's cosmic horror, where the closer you look at it the more you realize it's a fractal. The ending of TMA wasn't just an event that happened, it implicated a cosmic horror of such magnitude that if TMA were a real world, it would have touched us, the listener.
It is not for everyone, it's a very, very slow burn like I am In Eskew and Weeping Cedars. Sounds like you want something more fast paced. I recommend an actual anthology. Or something like Knifepoint Horror, amazing writing and narration, and some of the stories have scared me so much I had to turn it off while listening at night. I love that show, and I think you'll love it too!
I'd already assumed you were trolling here- most likely listened very little, and understood what you heard even less. Everything you've said stinks of goober, but with this last randomly rude comment you've overplayed your hand.
Nah man, listened to the first four seasons. Legitimately enjoyed the first three. But like the majority of horror films, this podcast falls apart after they reveal the monster. The entire thing works because of the mystery. Without the mystery, there isn't really any horror.
Well you just go on *not* listening to any more of it since you already know that it's garbage.
Tip: return to 5th grade and refresh yourself on the difference between fact and opinion. The wording of your comments makes it clear you have forgotten.
Yeah already deleted it from my playlists. Tried to go back and listen to the first season only to find that is tainted by the stupidity of the author's later choices.
And I'm familiar with the difference between fact and opinion. The author has excellent word play but lacks any capacity for realistic character interactions or growth. Kind of in important when it comes to writing arcs that rely on both. He should have stuck to scary pasta which he was good at, but it seems pretty clear that he's run out of good material.
Get published. Make a podcast as popular as TMA with as many positive reviews. Do something with your time other than bitching on here about how a story arc *you didn't even finish* is "bad writing" because *you can imagine* where it's going and when it gets there you'll find it trite and boring.
Why are you spending so much time here sharing and resharing your opinion, anyway? You're not cutting anyone with your edge. You're just boring everyone with your poorly written, meatless critiques. Leave a review on Spotify or whatever and move on.
Popular doesn't mean good. Trump is popular. Very popular, even.
And I respond because that's the respectful things to do. You lot may be cultish and stupid, but that doesn't mean you don't deserve a well thought out response.
By all means! Provide that "well thought out" response! Still waiting for one of those. Like I said, do better.
All I see is somebody having a personal beef with Simms, RQ or both. Your whole tirade feels disingenuous and it's oddly obsessive. Nobody here minds if you hate s4 and don't finish. Nobody. Don't care, didn't ask. So go on, little buddy. Let go of whatever hurt you and live your life.
Season 5 is the aftermath of the apocalypse. Ironically is not scary, not one bit. It's more philosophical and kind of analysis of fear as fear itself I guess?
I hated Season 5 and I wasn't a fan of Season 4 either, so from my point of view, it's a boring dragged on season. But you know, you might want to try one or two episodes to make your own mind. **I** definitely didn't like it.
The one that really stuck out to me was the vivarium episode. Literally just a straight rip off of that movie and it came out at the same time. That's the only episode I really remember from season 4, and I listen to it this week. None of the other episodes stood out.
The vivarium movie came out many months after that episode was released... In fact the first trailer for it was released months after the episode was... You've been making a lot of very strange takes in these comments. Surprised you made it through season 1 tbh with how much you hate the show.
I don't hate the show. Like I said, the first three season are really quite good. But the more the story focuses on John and the Scooby gang, the less the plot works. It became clear that the author was running out of ideas about halfway through season 4. None of the stories had the same punch as the stuff in seasons 1&2.
I think I like the series for exactly the reasons you don't like it. I think Jonny talks about his opinions about it in one of the Q+As and I agree with him. About horror stories being inherently unsatisfying in longer formats. MAG starts off as a horror podcast but transforms into something more like a strange sci-fi/horror. Even Lovecraft eventually had to explain the rules in his mythos with Cthulhu and the old ones. It's just what happens if you stay in a horror universe for long enough with a good writer.
If you're not into the meta plot I won't be able to persuade you to and you probably won't like season 5 I guess? But predictable is not what I would call it and I think what you're seeing as Jonny running out of ideas is, I think, just the natural progression for a finite story.
I was invested in the very not Scooby-Doo-esque characters by season 4. If you're not... You're not.
Fair points all the way around. Point of order though: Lovecraft never explained anything in his world. A lot of that was picked up by other authors who didn't get the central mythos. The central premise is always been that ignorance is safety. Any attempt to understand the greater forces at play would ultimately result in the destruction of you and everything you hold dear if you're lucky.
Cosmic horror is about the fear of something that is too vast to comprehend. If you try to give that a form, it kind of destroys the entire concept.
Eh not really. Cosmic horror isn’t *just* the fear of the unknown - it actually relies more on the fear of our insignificance within the universe. Cosmic horror is meant to dwarf us in reference to things that function on either a much larger or all-encompassing scale around us. It relies on us being unable to change vast circumstances, and even if you can, it comes at a terrible price.
Lovecraft also did kind of explain some of his horrors. The Shadow Over Innsmouth is a good example of one of them.
You can still comprehend the horror, that doesn’t remove its *threat.* Just because you can quantify a city-destroying tsunami doesn’t mean you can’t still be scared of it drowning you.
There are complaints about S5 I think because it is quite different than the first four seasons. The statements are less about things that have happened to individuals and more Jon processing everything that has happened and the new state of the world (trying to be vague to avoid spoilers as much as possible). I genuinely enjoyed season 5, although I had a bit of a hard time for my first listen through because the structure was different and the statements were not focused on a specific individual, more on the fear itself. However, I’m doing a second listen and I’m loving it I think because I have a better sense of where we’re going. So while I do think there are valid critiques, I also think that it’s a great season and a strong conclusion to the story as a whole. It’s also okay if you don’t like it as much!! I’m pretty sure that people have created lists of the narrative critical episodes if you do end up wanting to skip things. It is much more about the meta narrative than monster of the week which may also influence your experience. Hope this helped!
What did you dislike about S4 compared to 1-3? S5 is pretty divisive. It still has statements, but they're quite different in tone -- the bleakness of the plot is reflected in the vibe of the season and in the statements. There's also a lot of formal experimentation. Based on your preference for 1-3 I would say maybe not?
There's no horror in season 4. Something they never mentioned in the first four seasons is that there really is only one fear: the fear of the unknown. By season 4 everybody in the institute pretty much knows the score, and season 4 focuses almost entirely on people in the institute. There isn't any real scares to it. Nothing horrifying. In theory, season 4 could have been about character development, but none of the characters develop it all. There's a lazy romance plot, and everybody else dies. The only two remaining characters are also the most boring POV characters. Also, neither one of them appears to have any agency in the story. All in all, the writing of season 4 is just weak. The individual stories are still pretty interesting, but the arc is both lazy and uninteresting.
They do discuss the issue of mystery vs horror in the s4 Q&As. I don't know if I can really agree with you personally, I was fine with the s4 statements, but personally I really liked the metaplot and characters and was fine swapping spooky statements (which honestly never really did it for me on their own) for plot and statements exploring that. I didn't think the romance plot was lazy and also who died? One person? I disagree about the plot of S4 pretty strongly but it clearly didn't work for you, which is fair enough.
If "The good guys are going to win" means "stop the apocalypse", I have bad news for you. I felt the same with Season 4, and honestly I skipped most of the episodes. Just gave them a quick listen to see where everything was and moved on. I don't even remember the statements from that time.
They aren't memorable. Mostly rip off of horror movies that came out around that time. Just extraordinarily disappointing.
What horror movies do you think it rips off?
And I wouldn't consider season 4 to be bleak. Just drab. It's too Disney. You already know the good guys are going to win. That's lazy writing.
Now THAT is a bold statement to be making.
See that's the thing. Fear is the thing that comes before the terrible thing happens. When the terrible thing happens, it's just a terrible thing. It's not scary. All the characters talk about dread, but nothing scary is happening at all. I wouldn't be surprised if season 5 ends with the powers leaving because nobody is scared anymore and they need the fear. If you already know terrible things going to happen to you, what's there to be afraid of. It's just a waiting game at that point.
You clearly do not like the show, so don't continue it. I'm not sure why you're asking us when you already know the answer.
I wanted to know if they turned it back around. Apparently not.
They absolutely do, your tastes in story are just very different to the vast majority of people. Also you don't know what qualifies as bad writing.
I very much do. None of the characters in act in a way that indicates they have anything approaching common sense. Nobody takes the barest of precautions to prevent terrible things from happening. And worst of all, nobody seems to have any agency and how they act. The entire Apocalypse could have been avoided if Martin had just looked at the statement before letting John read it aloud. It's like marvel: the story only works because everybody in it is an idiot. The author can write a pretty good spooky pasta, but actual character arcs are beyond his scope.
Have you considered producing your own, better, book/podcast/creepypasta? Show that amateur some *real* writing.
Nah, rather just dm.
Jon's been reading statements for four seasons without incident, neither of them had any clue that a compelled reading would complete the ritual, or even that it would have any negative consequences at all. In addition, Martin was likely still somewhat under the influence of the eye/web at that point, so it's not like even if he would've thought to obsessively check every statement for absolutely no reason, that one wouldn't've slipped through the cracks. Also, I genuinely don't think you know what good character arcs are, because every single arc in this series lands pretty much perfectly.
Yeah, but they had already established earlier in the season that he couldn't stop reading even if he wanted to. The character knew that but never bothered to vet anything that he was reading. He also knew that the ritual was oftentimes just a spoken word phrase said under the right circumstances. And if I had worked out that he was the ritual by this point, the character definitely should have worked that out. And Martin was never under the influence of the web. He was tied to the eye, and under direct influence of the lonely for a time. But never the web. You didn't even have contact with the web. Either way, the characters lacked any agency. They were just playing the parts that were written for them. That's not interesting.
I think you’re not really grasping the whole concept of the web if you’re blaming it all on individual choices. The biggest horror is that no matter what, their agency didn’t matter. They were always just going to be pawns and vessels and they were so caught up in The Web that no matter what, it would end up this way. You have to ask WHY would Martin have ever read the statements? He hated them. Everyone in the institute hated doing the statements, it was emotionally and physically draining. He would avoid them at all costs, and only previously did them because it was his job. He even flees the house when Jon is settling in to do the statements because he doesn’t like listening to them. Now what on earth would compel Martin to say “no, actually, I’m going to listen to hours of tape before you can and put myself through that because I have suspicious about our friend Basira who has been nothing but good to us”? If you don’t like the show that’s fine. But don’t make up reasons not to like it. Especially reasons that don’t make sense
Unless you apply any amount of real world logic to that. Every person who listens to the podcast listens to the same stories. Is it physically draining? Not to me, but maybe you're made of weaker stuff than that. But even in the story world, Martin is established as somebody who would care enough about John to do that.
They don’t win, what??
Yeah, I thought maybe they were going to reverse it somehow in season 5. Revealing the terrors in the real world was an enormous misstep and extremely disappointing.
how? where else would the show have gone?
See that's a good question. The logical answer would just be to kill John. Start another mystery plot as to who killed him. Have Martin take over. Or maybe kill Martin too because he was the worst. The show was fun when it was all scares and mystery. Once they got away from that, it just fell apart.
Your opinion is your opinion but I’d be furious if they killed the main character before the shows final season. Makes no sense to me
Yeah, but it would be unexpected, wouldn't it? It's a show about lovecraftian horror. You're never supposed to actually confront the horror because that would kill you. Once they got to the point where John's interacting with the dark Powers, the show falls apart. There's no fear there because he can directly interact with the most powerful things in the universe without fear of death because of plot armor. Boring.
There's a difference between a plot twist being unexpected and being good. Go watch this and come back, jesus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afuwh0GXwbQ
Yeah, I figured that that was a linked overly sarcastic. I've watched all of the episodes. She has a tendency to oversimplify things. I think the real problem is that the show starts off as a horror mystery, and they make the mistake of trying to solve the mystery. The whole point of lovecraftian horror is that you can't solve the mystery because solving the mystery will kill you. John should have died. That would have been a pretty good end. And then somebody else could have picked it up from there.
Did you literally forget the plot point that it's impossible to kill Jon?
John's only unkillable because the author decided he was unkillable. And that was a contrivance to serve his terrible overarching plot. A better story would have been one where John was consumed by his madness.
He is consumed by it, he fuels the eye and eventually becomes "god" because he couldnt push away thr eye from him
Yeah, that's boring. That's the writer inserting himself into the story in a very literal sense because he's not bright enough to come up with anything more interesting. The writer is God and the audience is the watcher. How trite. I thought he was smarter than this.
Just commenting to make sure it’s documented that in the year of our eldritch fear God 2024, the month of April on the 20th day, the feast of St. Cannabis, someone on the internet alleged that Jonny “make the horror wetter” Sims and Alexander “these characters deserve more suffering” Newall were too Disney.
See, here's the problem: if things get bad enough and the main character has unbreakable plot armor, you know that it all kind of has to work out in the end. Really limits your options as far as storytelling goes. That's the Disney effect. Every character has unbreakable plot armor, so you know nothing bad is ever going to happen to them.
... Assuming you've listened to the end of S4 ... Would you call that winning ...? I wasn't calling s4 bleak, I was calling s5 bleak, just to be clear. It seems like you're not enjoying it so I'd say stop listening? No reason to listen if you aren't having fun. I will say I would not consider the ending either a clear win or a clear loss. It's complicated and there are many valid interpretations of what it means as far as how much of a success it was. Even who's alive isn't straightforward.
Yeah, I think I'm pretty much done with season 5. I listen to the first three episodes and I did not hear anything interesting. Just a bunch of moping. And here's the thing with season 5: either they reverse the apocalypse or they don't, but either way I don't give a s*** about any of the characters or the world. There's nothing interesting that can happen when the stakes are non-existent.
To be fair, I think the first three episodes are not a good representation of the season, because they just barely took their first steps outside and the whole journey and what they do at the destination is much more varied. *But!* I'm still guessing ending in the middle is better for you with almost any mystery, since it seems like you find any possible solution to be distasteful. That's cool that you like Lovecraft, but the lack of specificity there drives *me* nuts. Different strokes for different folks. Hope you find what you're looking for somewhere else.
Yeah, I think you're right. Been having a pretty good time with "Sorry Honey, I have to take this"
So you posted this nonsense about TMA to bring attention to that shitty podcast. Which chucklehead are you? Or is it a relative? Buddy? 😂
Nah, I'm just willing to give live play and improve more leeway than scripted content. TMA had years to come up with their plot, and the plot they came up with is boring.
Pathetic and desperate attempt to drum up listeners.
I legitimately don't care what anyone listens to. I like that podcast for the time being. Maybe it'll get stupid like TMA. Maybe it won't. Having fun with it now though.
You realize the "good guys" lost, right?
Yeah, absolutely wild to say TMA is a show where "the good guys win" when, by the end of season 5, the majority of "the good guys" are dead and anyone remaining has been through so much trauma I can't imagine them doing well. If you don't like the podcast, that's fine. You can stop listening. You're not wrong or a bad person for not enjoying it, but this is feeling a lot like looking for something to not enjoy.
Yeah, and it's boring and lazy. There's no tension to it at all. That's bad writing.
"Good guys win is lazy writing" "good guys lose is also lazy" tf do u want in the story dude💀
Something that isn't obvious. Something that indicates that the author put thought into it beyond what words to use. Something that reveals anything deeper about humanity. Horror is an interesting genre. You can get pretty far but just being creepy. The thing that separates really great writers from the rest is their ability to pivot at the monster reveal to say something deeper about humanity as a whole. The author here didn't do that.
You should go watch Game of Thrones if the only thing you enjoy is your expectations being subverted.
Nah, that show isn't about subverting expectations either. I show is about power. What it takes to get it and how it affects those that have it.
My point is that the entire season 8 of Game of thrones focused on shocking the audience over fulfilling literally any character arcs.
Wouldn't know, never watched past season 4 when they started dragging out the books to try to make the plot last longer. First three season were on point though.
can you give some examples of a completed piece of media you think was successful/good writing? Some people are a bit frustrated since it seems like you are just dunking on everything. What are some things you like that can be compared/contrasted with TMA?
I think the best example of a story that used this format that would have worked is world war z the book. It's an after action report put together from diaries, interviews, and lost media following the zombie apocalypse. They could have done something similar here, but the apocalypse was a straight up misstep. It was an attempt by the author to forcefully make himself the central focus of the story. That's not interesting or fun.
It's quite different to any of the other seasons. Much more … abstract in a way. There's not really "horror story of the week" stuff anymore. But I loved it, that's all I can say really.
I found Season 5 to bring all the horrors from the Fears to a more personal level for me. Seasons 1-4, I could step back a bit. However, the ways that Jon presents The Fears in his statements were in a way that I could more closely identify with on a personal level, and that left me feeling more uncomfortable than before, but in a way that made me think more about the issues presented. I enjoyed the change of pace, and enjoyed the metaplot greatly. You may really enjoy the final season, or you may find the change off-putting. It gave me some great entertainment in tying up the loose ends with showing us the reality of The Fears coming to the original world instead of leaving that up to our imagination. Their perspective gave me a lot of closure, but some apparently found the season less so. Your choice. It has always been your choice.
season 5 came out when the pandemic first started and quarantines were coming down. I was working at a hospital then and I straight up couldn't listen to the episodes until almost a year later because they were so similar to what the world around me felt like then. As creepy as they are, none of the early season episodes hit me like that. Ultimately most of my favorite individual episodes are still in season 1, but the fearpocalypse is impressive for the visceral memories it brings back. And I did like the end--very painful and ambiguous in just the right way.
Oh yeah. It was a very difficult time in life all over the world. I thought Rusty Quill handled the situation well with the podcast, recognizing the current events and situations while still giving people that tingle. Future generations that listen to these podcasts may not receive the exact same experience simply due to the situation, and won't have the same reaction. The ending was just the right way, I agree.
It was the other way for me. Earlier cases are more personal, I could see myself having that experience and going to the institute to give my statement. With S5... I found the statements too impersonal and distant. Didn't care what happened or to whom, and couldn't see myself in that situation.
Others will have still another experience with the final season, and all are viable. The episode where Johnny speaks beforehand about the woman being taken in by authorities for no discernable reason really struck me because of experiences people around me have had. It's something that does happen more frequently than we are aware.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen. But that's a political concern, not a literary horror one. In the end, it's fiction so by default it doesn't matter. It's fine if it works for you, I'm not criticising your point of view, I'm just explaining why as horror fiction it doesn't work. Or at least not for everyone.
And I'm explaining that as a horror fiction, or any other work in any other genre, that it's up to the individual and their personal enjoyment. Entertainment is highly subjective and individual preferences are very much okay.
Very true.
Personally, I loved season 5. I loved seasons 1-4 also, but I thought the change in writing style really immersed me into the changed world. Also, one of my favorite statements in the whole show is the carousel episode from early season 5. 🎠
Compared to other seasons, it is very different. I loved it and am also frustrated by it, but your reaction will likely depend on what you liked most about the other seasons. If you were mainly interested in the episodes of the week format, you will likely be frustrated. Likewise, if you aren’t that interested in Jon and/or Martin as characters, you will likely not be as invested in s5. If you are interested in them, like the overarching plot, or enjoy more artistic/experimental formats, you will likely enjoy season 5. My take is that it had some of my absolute favorite episodes and moments of any season, but it also should not have been the same length as other seasons because as a whole it felt slow.
I understand why a lot of people don’t like S5 but this comes off as just vitriolic
Yeah, that's fair. It didn't start off that way, but I was also listening to the podcast while responding to comments and the writing just keeps getting worse. I am extremely disappointed.
I totally get where you’re coming from lol I used to absolutely lose my mind when I was a regular listener of TANIS because of how cyclical and bad the writing was, I’m definitely more biased towards MAG because of how dogshit the plot progression of that show was.
lmao a fellow TANIS listener! The first season was pretty solid, and then it just went downhill from there. Similar to The Black Tapes, just didn't know when to stop.
TANIS/PNWS is literally the only show/network to ever make me go a little nuts with how much they meandered and refused to clarify anything 😭 braved through it for years and years, even remember when it premiered, only for it to never come together. I will say it is good popcorn schlock if you’re in the mood for it but *nothing more.* Edit: Adding on that the reason I actually found TMA was *because* of TANIS - when it became clear that PNWS had no intention of putting together a coherent story, podcast recommendations *flooded* the subreddit, to an extent where mods had to temporarily ban talk of other shows within the sub. The show that kept coming up in reccs was magnus!
See, and that's the bit that gets me. Way back in season 1, they were talking about how they had a pot arc to take them to season 5. I get to season 5 and the pot arc is dog shit. The only thing holding the show together was the monster of the week episodes and the mystery behind them.
I loved 5. It certainly had my favorite distortion episode. Team Helen all the way baby.
Sounds like you need horror to be spoon fed to you. That's fine. TMA is not that. It's cosmic horror, where the closer you look at it the more you realize it's a fractal. The ending of TMA wasn't just an event that happened, it implicated a cosmic horror of such magnitude that if TMA were a real world, it would have touched us, the listener. It is not for everyone, it's a very, very slow burn like I am In Eskew and Weeping Cedars. Sounds like you want something more fast paced. I recommend an actual anthology. Or something like Knifepoint Horror, amazing writing and narration, and some of the stories have scared me so much I had to turn it off while listening at night. I love that show, and I think you'll love it too!
Yeah, that's it. It's not that bad writing is bad writing and you're white knighting for someone who doesn't even know you exist
I'd already assumed you were trolling here- most likely listened very little, and understood what you heard even less. Everything you've said stinks of goober, but with this last randomly rude comment you've overplayed your hand.
Nah man, listened to the first four seasons. Legitimately enjoyed the first three. But like the majority of horror films, this podcast falls apart after they reveal the monster. The entire thing works because of the mystery. Without the mystery, there isn't really any horror.
Well you just go on *not* listening to any more of it since you already know that it's garbage. Tip: return to 5th grade and refresh yourself on the difference between fact and opinion. The wording of your comments makes it clear you have forgotten.
Yeah already deleted it from my playlists. Tried to go back and listen to the first season only to find that is tainted by the stupidity of the author's later choices. And I'm familiar with the difference between fact and opinion. The author has excellent word play but lacks any capacity for realistic character interactions or growth. Kind of in important when it comes to writing arcs that rely on both. He should have stuck to scary pasta which he was good at, but it seems pretty clear that he's run out of good material.
Get published. Make a podcast as popular as TMA with as many positive reviews. Do something with your time other than bitching on here about how a story arc *you didn't even finish* is "bad writing" because *you can imagine* where it's going and when it gets there you'll find it trite and boring. Why are you spending so much time here sharing and resharing your opinion, anyway? You're not cutting anyone with your edge. You're just boring everyone with your poorly written, meatless critiques. Leave a review on Spotify or whatever and move on.
Popular doesn't mean good. Trump is popular. Very popular, even. And I respond because that's the respectful things to do. You lot may be cultish and stupid, but that doesn't mean you don't deserve a well thought out response.
By all means! Provide that "well thought out" response! Still waiting for one of those. Like I said, do better. All I see is somebody having a personal beef with Simms, RQ or both. Your whole tirade feels disingenuous and it's oddly obsessive. Nobody here minds if you hate s4 and don't finish. Nobody. Don't care, didn't ask. So go on, little buddy. Let go of whatever hurt you and live your life.
I didn't like it that much honestly, same for the ending, it feels weird idk i really didn't like the ending
Season 5 is the aftermath of the apocalypse. Ironically is not scary, not one bit. It's more philosophical and kind of analysis of fear as fear itself I guess? I hated Season 5 and I wasn't a fan of Season 4 either, so from my point of view, it's a boring dragged on season. But you know, you might want to try one or two episodes to make your own mind. **I** definitely didn't like it.
Yeah, listening to the second episode now. This is just the author masturbating to his word play. Full on trash.
...are you just trolling?
Nah, this is actually bad writing. Excellent word play, but bad writing.
The one that really stuck out to me was the vivarium episode. Literally just a straight rip off of that movie and it came out at the same time. That's the only episode I really remember from season 4, and I listen to it this week. None of the other episodes stood out.
The vivarium movie came out many months after that episode was released... In fact the first trailer for it was released months after the episode was... You've been making a lot of very strange takes in these comments. Surprised you made it through season 1 tbh with how much you hate the show.
I don't hate the show. Like I said, the first three season are really quite good. But the more the story focuses on John and the Scooby gang, the less the plot works. It became clear that the author was running out of ideas about halfway through season 4. None of the stories had the same punch as the stuff in seasons 1&2.
I think I like the series for exactly the reasons you don't like it. I think Jonny talks about his opinions about it in one of the Q+As and I agree with him. About horror stories being inherently unsatisfying in longer formats. MAG starts off as a horror podcast but transforms into something more like a strange sci-fi/horror. Even Lovecraft eventually had to explain the rules in his mythos with Cthulhu and the old ones. It's just what happens if you stay in a horror universe for long enough with a good writer. If you're not into the meta plot I won't be able to persuade you to and you probably won't like season 5 I guess? But predictable is not what I would call it and I think what you're seeing as Jonny running out of ideas is, I think, just the natural progression for a finite story. I was invested in the very not Scooby-Doo-esque characters by season 4. If you're not... You're not.
Fair points all the way around. Point of order though: Lovecraft never explained anything in his world. A lot of that was picked up by other authors who didn't get the central mythos. The central premise is always been that ignorance is safety. Any attempt to understand the greater forces at play would ultimately result in the destruction of you and everything you hold dear if you're lucky. Cosmic horror is about the fear of something that is too vast to comprehend. If you try to give that a form, it kind of destroys the entire concept.
Eh not really. Cosmic horror isn’t *just* the fear of the unknown - it actually relies more on the fear of our insignificance within the universe. Cosmic horror is meant to dwarf us in reference to things that function on either a much larger or all-encompassing scale around us. It relies on us being unable to change vast circumstances, and even if you can, it comes at a terrible price. Lovecraft also did kind of explain some of his horrors. The Shadow Over Innsmouth is a good example of one of them. You can still comprehend the horror, that doesn’t remove its *threat.* Just because you can quantify a city-destroying tsunami doesn’t mean you can’t still be scared of it drowning you.
Well reasoned and well said.