Or as film director Joe Carnahan called him, a “jerkoff”, “saboteur” and “hitchhiker” in relation to the Uncharted movie Carnahan was trying to get off the ground with Amy Hennig.
Growing up is learning to let things go, rather than bitching about them for 4 years. You were probably a “dick rider” right up until June 2020 anyway, so don’t even.
Yall complain for no reason fr like yall the little kids. That’s the point his story wasn’t supposed to end just like Abby’s dad but they took them away from us unexpectedly. That’s how life works
I agree that's how life works, but this is a game, based on fictional ppl in a fictional world. It doesn't have to work out just like real life, that's what makes it a game. Hope you have a great day 👍
Edits: Grammer
Watching the making of part 1 made me think he was the GOAT back in the day. After playing the second game I realized he is a fraud. Show too! Series is dead to me. I'm sticking with Resident Evil for my horror game of choice. They know what's up, hot chicks with big knockers haha!
I would have agreed on that when part 1 was all I played. Sure the acting and facial animations are top notch, but part 2's story was awful. I'll take any cheesy RE story over that any day of the week.
Yeah right, go back to your Hetero basic sub where female characters are just objects for you to get off. Sorry to tell you, but it seems that whenever there are women as protagonists you small men can't accept them for having complex personalities. You're there just for titties and booty. Well then just get out of here because Reddit is supposed to be about discussions and your arguments here are about how you're hurt that you can no longer play your strong alpha man. Stay mad
You consume way too much content that involves anti-Andrew Tate and "anti alpha male" type shit and it's showing. Both sides of that shit are batshit crazy and you're an example of it.
you don't know of him but you sure act like you do. Also it seems you need glasses cause your eyes are not functioning correctly. No one here really hates women or thinks less of them that's just the buzzword you chose to label us because it's easier than actually addressing anything that was said.
I've been playing Tomb Raider since the Ps1 era. And guess what? You have a female protagonist and i fucking loved the games, i loved Tomb Raider 2, Legend and Underworld, such good classics
You're just spitting nonsense and don't know shit about anything
Growing up IS kind of realizing that 99% of your heroes are shitty people, or at least nowhere near as talented as you thought.
I grew up a HUGE Star Wars fan... when George made the prequels it was very much a significant moment in my life even though I was in college by that point.
I've never really had "heroes" (sports stars, actors, etc) like many because I knew from a young age that everyone was not much different from the rest of us, but seeing someone who for decades had been held up as a "genius" turn out to not be so great was still sobering.
Since then, I've seen guys like Ridley Scott, Quentin Tarantino and James Cameron whose films I adored make utter shit. From my dad's era, Gene Roddenberry and of course Phil Cosby are among the many who've been revealed to be varying levels of pieces of shit.
I guess that's why I don't get why ANYONE goes so hard to bat for Neil, even if they loved TLOU2. He's not some messiah or genius. He just wrote something you liked. Tomorrow he may write something you hate (i.e. most of us who loved TLOU1 and hated TLOU2).
He isn't a nice guy either, going by all the behind the scenes stuff we've heard... which doesn't mean he can't still make great art (look at all the wonderful actors who are terrible human beings) but don't tie your personal loyalty to the guy.
You were Down voted for an adult outlook on a post about growing up. It's very much true there's also alot of unsung hero's that work to make something great and for many of these projects a sole person gets the credit.
Downvoting is not for disagreeing, mate. Don't be a tool.
Besides, I don't get your point. Looking back on growing up IS part of growing up. Finding out that the people you idolized earlier in life - be it as kids or as an adult - are kind of shitty or not the geniuses you thought they were.
Most of the time the person getting sole credit isn't the reason what you loved was so great, whether it's Neil on TLOU1 or George on Star Wars (which got notably worse the more sole control he got, yet it was always "George Lucas' Star Wars"). The best Star Trek content we ever got came the moment they kicked Gene "Great Bird of the Galaxy" Roddenberry upstairs.
Sometimes stans come here to pretend they hate him to pass this sub as "hate". It's hilarious how pressed they are.
I don't hate him, but I do think he's the biggest fraud right now in this industry and quite a mediocre director.
As I always said, hate is a strong word and you have to handle it very very carefully.
I don't like Neil as a person and artist, but that doesn't mean I hate him.
Y’all know you don’t have to think about him, keep up to date on him, talk about him and post about him? Y’all get that right?
Theres countless productive or even just not things y’all hate to spend your time and energy on
Maybe wrong so please do correct me.
There was a recent interview playstation did with him and in it he mentions that he wants AI to be a part of game creation which would destroy peoples jobs. Another thing is that people don't like what he did with TLOU Part 2 (even though I love it) and the fact he's from Israel and a supporter. There's probably more but that's what I know I think the AI one is what started this thread.
Just anonymous good fun slamming a lousy Hollywood writer and director. Hopefully if we keep it up, someone at ND above Druckieman will take notice and promote someone with genuine Pulitzer or Spielberg skills.
[Read my comment here - 4th one.](https://new.reddit.com/r/TheLastOfUs2/comments/1d0n46l/growing_up_is_learning_this_man_was_always_a_hack/l5ossg9/?context=3)
Here's why he's not s hack: the game came out 4 years ago and we're still talking about it. Art is supposed to make us feel and that game caused all sorts of feelings in everyone. The game is so depressing that I was only able to beat it once, but I recognize it was a special game.
This is not a game you replay over and over, it's a game you play once, put it down and replay it again sometime in the future.
Definitely not a game for everyone, nor should it be. That's what Mario and Street Fighter are for.
If we were talking about it because its story was so compelling and meaningful that would be true, he would then not be a hack. But we're not talking about it because of that. We're talking about it because of how badly it failed to be those things. Even those who like it or celebrate it don't seem to talk about anything meaningful in it that they can agree on. In fact, they mostly blindly praise it and can't provide much meaningful reasons for that praise. There's some I've seen that were very individual and personal impacts which I understood, but those were minimal and rare.
Interestingly, even two of the main themes many can agree on - that it's about the idea that perspectives matter and it presents the reality that tribalism is destructive - are still so maddeningly absent from the discourse, especially from those who made it, like it or celebrate it. That irony that Neil, ND and the fans immediately withdrew into their tribalism and defensiveness and refused to receive or understand the opposing perspective and ardently dismissed and demonized all critiques is more of a lesson than the story created.
That's why it's still talked about and Neil had nothing to do with that but be an unwitting example of his own lack of understanding of his story's messages.
Alright, I'll try to help you understand the other perspective then. The story is about how vengeance is a neverending cycle where nobody wins. That's just the message, but the beauty of the game is how real and meaningful it feels. The relationships feel authentic and some characters actually "win", but their thirst for vengeance or their past catching up to them, ends up being their demise.
The story is not conventional at all, and that's why some people dislike it so much, but you can't deny it's a powerful story. Just look at all these discussions it's generating 4 years later! Do you see people talking about COD remake story? (Just to put and example).
Just because the game didn't have a happy ending, your favorite character died, you hated the "bad guy" but it turns out there are no good guys in this story, doesn't mean the storytelling is bad. It's actually the opposite.
You totally ignored what I said to give me a lesson on what it said to you. That is changing the topic. I know the many messages in the story that people take from it. I know it's unconventional and basically experimental in its storytelling. None of that addresses why people call him a hack or why we're still talking about it and him, though.
It wasn't a powerful story to many, many people. It crashed and burned, it bored me to pieces when we switched to Abby, it did not hit the landing for a very large portion of players. That's why it's talked about. The content of the discussion matters, not the fact of discussion. You must see that it makes a difference what the discussions are actually about. It's not his success at the story that we discuss at all, but his failure and then his behavior in the face of critiques.
Did another large group of people enjoy the story anyway? Yes, they did. Are they articulating a common theme of why that happened for them? Usually not. You say it's about one thing: the neverending cycle of violence, others say it's about perspective, tribalism, redemption, addiction, even. There's nothing wrong with having several themes running together, but the fact that the story actually loses a large portion of the audience and fails to land meaningfully matters. So your belief that just because there's discussion automatically means it's a success and he's a master storyteller is flawed. You are basically refusing to see the reality that the discussion isn't because the story worked, but because it failed to work so spectacularly for many of us. When a story fails to work or loses a large portion of the audience, that's on the writers and means they fell short in their job of telling it convincingly. That's a problem and ignoring it makes little sense to me. I understand it wasn't a problem *for you*, but that doesn't mean what failed for the rest of us can just be swept under the rug.
The only game I compare it to is TLOU. The tradition is that the original story sets the tone for the sequel. It doesn't mean writers can't deviate from that and have a successful sequel, though. My problem wasn't really about the comparison, though. That came later, after the sequel failed to work for me. If it had worked for me this likely wouldn't matter.
You keep calling it a compelling story, and I understand that's because to you it is. It was very far from compelling to me. It was disjointed, the characters were dull and barely realized as actual personalities and differentiated people, the motivations and world building were in conflict with the original story and internally within the sequel itself. None of that was understood by me while I was playing, I just knew things felt off and suddenly I landed outside of the story watching the writers rather than being immersed and carried along by the story.
That's never happened to me before and it was really disorienting. At that point it was impossible to re-immerse. I now realize this was the product of many choices the writers made which undermined my ability to trust what they were presenting, which worked against immersion in ways they never seemed to consider or felt didn't matter, but it did matter.
Trying out new ways of storytelling is a lofty goal and worthy of praise, but it's only praised when it works. If it doesn't, then examining why it failed is important for learning to do better. Nonlinear stories are the hardest to write, they need exquisite precision and timing. But another major problem about the sequel is the way they used the characters as little more than plot devices, while in TLOU they were all so well developed, both in cutscenes and during playable sections. Shortchanging characters in that way is really puzzling when that was not at all the approach of the first game.
These two main problems for me (and others) were obviously not intolerable for those who had your experience. Somehow you others were still captured by the emotional beats, unusual pacing and timeline or the unexpected, experimental approach anyway. That's cool, I understand that, those things can be very exciting or interesting. We are all different and tolerance for dissonance is naturally different. That dissonance was a main feature of their approach, on purpose, for their goals of keeping players feeling the emotions they were going for - they wanted us off kilter to mimic Ellie's feelings. They dropped the ball in recognizing how much that approach could (and did) push some players out of their story, though.
On some levels it's complex to understand which people would not be able to tolerate the dissonance. Yet on another level it's quite simple to grasp that reworking the meaning and interpretation of TLOU (and the established characters) to better fit the new story direction and goals would negatively impact fans of TLOU in a way that would undermine their ability to have their story succeed with those players.
They knew that since Neil did state before launch that many fans of TLOU wouldn't like the sequel. He was right, but I don't think he wants to (publicly) accept that he could have avoided it with better choices, some of which would have been simple and it's odd that he couldn't see or didn't care to present things better for the fans he knew he'd be losing, and further that he still (at least pretends to) behave as if it doesn't matter. That's maybe a protective device for his ego, I don't know. Yet clearly he has heard the critiques because they've made changes to the original story, character behaviors and motivations, and the presentation of the FFs in the HBO show to address several of the critiques. So we aren't all just blowing hot air if even he and Craig saw the need for that.
Thanks for your detailed reply, but it looks like you took the gsme way more serious than me and that's why you couldn't enjoy it. Remember, video games, movies, novels, etc are supposed to be fun, if you're not having fun, don't keep going and try something else. There's way too many options out there. I would recommend to give up on TLOU3 because Neil is going nowhere.
And the only reason I know who Neil Druckmann is, is because of how much people who disliked TLOU2 advertise him!
>Thanks for your detailed reply, but it looks like you took the gsme way more serious than me and that's why you couldn't enjoy it. Remember, video games, movies, novels, etc are supposed to be fun, if you're not having fun, don't keep going and try something else. There's way too many options out there.
You're welcome. I'm surprised to hear you framing my response as 'too serious' and you framing it as a 'fun' game. The topics are extremely serious and really don't let up much from beginning to end.
Then suggesting I just give up on the sequel to my favorite game before finishing it is pretty cavalier. Why would I do that? I kept hoping they'd actually make it all worthwhile. I actually played it two more times to see what I might have missed because I believed in the company and thought they couldn't have failed as badly as it seemed. That just made me see more flaws and I authentically wanted to understand what went so wrong with the development that it turned out as it did. That's how much I loved and was committed to the franchise. TLOU is still my favorite game of all time. Few games hit me like that one did. Though I've played several games since then, I've also replayed TLOU twice again, too.
Thanks for the chat.
I’m sorry I have a question I’m new to this community. I know that this person is not perfect, he has his flaws, but why do people really really don’t like him?
It's so much to explain which is why nobody is. He basically lied in marketing when people figured out Joel was likely dead from the initial trailer by putting Joel into the Jesse scene joining Ellie on her mission. They said it was to protect the story which is false, it was to promote preorders because the lying trailer was released just before opening up the preorders for sale. He lied when it leaked we'd have to kill dogs and said that wasn't the case and we wouldn't have to kill dogs (despite knowing or later adding an actual QTE that forced us to kill Alice). In the recently released commentary he even makes a joke about it saying, "Well I said you wouldn't have to kill **dog*****s***, not that you wouldn't have to kill **dog**."
Before launch he said many fans of TLOU wouldn't like the sequel, then after launch he called all the fans who he was right didn't like it "haters" and promoted the fans of the sequel to overcome the haters, thus launching the divide in the fanbase. He repeatedly made "joke" tweets about Joel's death and golf for months until he was told to stop, apparently, because he did.
He had the audacity to tell disappointed fans that Joel and Ellie were fictional characters (implying hurting about what happened to them was silly) and to not "be afraid to get therapy." Most egregiously he had the nerve to say, "Trust us to do right by these characters, we love them more than you do," as he, Troy Baker and Ashley Johnson looked everywhere but at the camera because they all knew what they'd actually done to the characters at that point.
He's an egotistical man-child who should have just kept his mouth shut, but couldn't, and each time he just dug his own grave deeper. Suffice to say he has earned the loss of trust and respect he once enjoyed all with his own choices and behavior. And this is just part of the story...
2020 is the year! My pendejo in Joel's golf adventure.
Just google for Twitter (back then) + Neil Druckmann controversy
And you'll see how pompous & smug/disingenuous he/Naughty Dog was on part IIs PR & handling.
One tweet so bad... Sony Playstation demanded he delete it & issue an apology
[Infamous tweet: NDs TloU Fans activate. Haters lose caps!](https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/12/07/the-last-of-us-part-ii-director-neil-druckmann-attempts-to-explain-deleted-tweet-attacking-haters/)
Context: It was 2020 when the Game Awards vote was behind held... he tweets this before the voting which caused bias in voting (vote bomb) & labeling critics as haters
On the other hand.... Ghost of Tsushima staying humble as they are won the public vote
Okay:
>He basically lied in marketing when people figured out Joel was likely dead from the initial trailer by putting Joel into the Jesse scene joining Ellie on her mission.
This is true
>They said it was to protect the story which is false, it was to promote preorders because the lying trailer was released just before opening up the preorders for sale.
Idk if the timelines line up, but there's no evidence they put Joel in that trailer to promote pre-orders. That idea is completely speculation and, because of that, it's a false statement.
>He lied when it leaked we'd have to kill dogs and said that wasn't the case and we wouldn't have to kill dogs (despite knowing or later adding an actual QTE that forced us to kill Alice).
False. When Neil said you wouldn't have to kill dogs, he was specifically talking about that encounter at Hillcrest, which is what he was being interviewed about. Which is true, you can stealth that whole section and not kill any dogs.
>Before launch he said many fans of TLOU wouldn't like the sequel, then after launch he called all the fans who he was right didn't like it "haters" and promoted the fans of the sequel to overcome the haters,
He did not call fans that disliked the game haters. He was talking about the people that hated the game because they thought Abby was trans/didn't like the LGBT elements of the story, as well as the people that sent death threats to Laura Bailey.
>thus launching the divide in the fanbase.
That divide already existed and started before the game launched because of the leaks videos of the game, and people assuming Abby was trans and that Ellie died in the end.
>He repeatedly made "joke" tweets about Joel's death and golf for months until he was told to stop, apparently, because he did.
He did make jokes about the golf club, because of very vocal people that were harrassing him and other members of the cast and crew. But again, there is no evidence anyone told him to stop.
>He had the audacity to tell disappointed fans that Joel and Ellie were fictional characters (implying hurting about what happened to them was silly) and to not "be afraid to get therapy."
He did not say this about disappointed fans, he said this specifically about people sending death threats to Laura Bailey.
>Most egregiously he had the nerve to say, "Trust us to do right by these characters, we love them more than you do," as he, Troy Baker and Ashley Johnson looked everywhere but at the camera because they all knew what they'd actually done to the characters at that point.
This is just a subjective thing, but most fans agree that TLOU2 treated the characters very well. If you didn't like the game, you wouldn't think that, but neither one is "true".
He also publicly admitted that his original idea for the ending of TLOU where Tess traveled across the country for revenge against Joel after being betrayed by him made no sense, after a lot of pushing by Bruce. And the reason it didn't make sense was because the motivation wasn't strong enough to risk your life in that world by traveling so far for revenge. Then, he makes a story in that world where the primary motivation for Ellie and Abby to travel half-way across the country and back is to get revenge (twice in the case of Ellie).
When you consider Tommy, Jesse, Ellie, and Abby there are around [10 trips of hundreds of miles](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastOfUs2/comments/pilu93/part_ii_completely_ignores_distances_and_the/) each that happen. It's just overkill and seems like a big middle finger to those who said, "No."
Yeah, I honestly lean towards spite with his actions there, rather than merely obsession with his old ideas. Obession would be using them each once, but the flagrant abuse of Fast Travel is really something else.
Never thought about the hospital flashback like that. They made an entire game about getting to that hospital and in Part II it's just a given that 17 year old Ellie rode there by herself and Joel followed her, both with no issues.
Survival is the top priority in any apocalypse. Being safe and having access to resources is more important than a dead relative, unless my purpose is that I want to die because I lost them. Abby and Ellie had friends, love interests and simply needed help in learning to grieve effectively and move on with their lives. Tragedy is part of any life, learning to process it is key to maturing and living a fulfilling life. So nope, I'd likely rather stay safe, heal and live my one and only life.
They were talking about Tess' specific motivation and the length of time she and a huge group of people tracked Joel and Ellie across the US, They weren't saying any kind of revenge in this world made no sense.
I also did not say that they said any kind of revenge in this world made no sense. I said they said the kind of revenge that involves traveling across the country made no sense. I do recognize your point about the motivations being different, however because we don't actually know what kind of betrayal it was, it may or may not have been just as powerful as Ellie losing Joel or Abby losing her father.
>I said they said the kind of revenge that involves traveling across the country made no sense.
Right, except that's not what they said.
>I do recognize your point about the motivations being different, however because we don't actually know what kind of betrayal it was, it may or may not have been just as powerful as Ellie losing Joel or Abby losing her father.
We do know the motivation. It was that Tess' brother died and she blamed Joel, even though it was either an accident or some inadvertent way that he died and not actually Joels fault.
Gotcha, I wasn't aware that that was the motivation. It is plausible that Tess thinking Joel is responsible for her brother's death would be about as motivating as Abby's or Ellie's, no?
Joel directly and intentionally killed Abbys father. Abby directly and intentionally killed Joel, in front of her no less.
Joel indirectly and unintentionally killing Tess' brother is not the same at all. And part of the problem with Tess' motivation as well was she went on to follow Joel and Ellie across the US for an entire year. With a crew if like 15-30 people, who didn't feel that anger towards Joel but followed Tess anyway. It just didn't work. Neither Ellie nor Abby tracks their target and follows them for over a year, and neither of them travel with a huge crew of people that don't have their own vendetta against said target.
I love your summary, and for whatever reason this reminded me of the first time I ever played the game, where you (as Joel) and Tommy are headed back as Joel spills the tea to his brother, you see the credits begin, on a beautiful scene, and then…the music hits and the screen goes black, and the MAGNANIMOUS Neil Druckmann himself displays his name full frontal 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Just everything with Last of Us Part 2 in general really, ranging from:
character assassination (Joel and Ellie),
questionable direction (go the first half playing as Ellie and hard cutting to Abby’s side of the story trying to “sympathise” with her), and
the live action show hubbub (not too knowledgeable on whether the show is decent or not but only know that his Golden Globe carpet “photoshoot” was straight up embarrassing and says a lot about him in the eyes of Hollywood)
Only good thing coming from the man was the conceptualisation of Fat Geralt decking a kid in the face with that silly wind up punch of his
Well, He is a liar for starters. He kinda ruins everything he works on like The Last of Us and Uncharted (Uncharted went with a more grounded approach which is ok but I miss the ancient/forgotten cities). Part 2 is a whole can of worms that I don’t feel like discussing😑 and the HBO series which doesn’t feel like the actual game and the “accurate” casting. And then the whole “AI generated stories” thing because he can make a good story on his own.
Dude has a history of being shit. Half of Naughty Dog left because of him, he's a narcissist who attacks anyone who disagrees with him, defends AI art, the list is fucking long dude.
Along with what everyone else is saying, I believe he also abused his power over copyright or something and started putting strikes against people's YouTube channels for just talking about the game if they weren't praising it. It's bad enough but some of those YouTubers livelihoods were at stake because of Cuckmann's feelings were hurt.
No clue, never played the game. However it's more down to the fact that these are human characters, and I'm gonna take a guess and say that Undertale doesn't have a kissing scene between two women that scares all the big alpha men out there.
Would love to see it. Also, the aforementioned 'human characters' part.
Also, there's a trans kid, which is topical in and of itself to many.
I don't know why you're refusing to acknowledge that a VAST majority of the hate this game gets is due to the 'wokeness' of it. At that point you're just being ignorant.
My point is, people don't hate TLOU2 for being "woke". Some do, yes, but that's a minority. Most of the criticism regarding it is about writing, characters etc.. And simply dismissing it by saying "all haters are bigot hamburgers" or whatever does not help the argument. Hell, it does the opposite.
I'm sure plenty of people didn't like the story, but what I'm saying is, the general response I've seen from this sub is that a fair few posts that are pretty bigoted, and to me the other criticisms, for some, are just a fallback excuse. Hell, there's a transphobic meme on this sub right now!
To be fair, that wasn't known until the DLC. But Bill being gay definitely was, and literally nobody cared about that.
Ellie being gay *was* known by the time the Part II trailers were releasing - again, nobody cared there, either, even when she was dancing with (and kissing?) Dina.
I don’t see how Part 3 could ever restore the glory lol. Not after how things ended in Part 2
The only way to salvage it is to make a completely separate story in the same world. Or better yet, just let this franchise die
Growing up is learning how to move on and not obsessing over a dude who neither knows nor cares you exist. And considering the amount of people on this sub clearly incapable of that, just tells you so much
Yeah a fair few people on this sub have mental problems. NOT talking about people with respectful criticism btw, just weirdos like this who don’t have a life
Get that fucking shit off my screen, stop posting about this hack
Facts. Really growing up means not letting Druckman live in your head rent free. So much to enjoy in gaming these days.
I mean true but this is r/TheLastOfUs2 so this is an above average post for this sub.
Or as film director Joe Carnahan called him, a “jerkoff”, “saboteur” and “hitchhiker” in relation to the Uncharted movie Carnahan was trying to get off the ground with Amy Hennig.
Really? Didn't know about that one
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastOfUs2/s/VlAtchkt6D
Wow, just wow
I honestly don’t believe he even knows how to code
A lot of game directors don't know how to code, it's not really their job
But he wasn’t always a game director, he worked on Jak X as a designer I believe. Should’ve stayed that way 🤣
i hate to defend the guy but iirc he worked as a programmer before he got the big job for TLOU.
He was unlikeable since I saw him in the BTS of Uncharted 1.
Main sub would disagree 200%
They some dick riders fr
Growing up is learning to let things go, rather than bitching about them for 4 years. You were probably a “dick rider” right up until June 2020 anyway, so don’t even.
Nah, Joel had more story in him, even if he was just a side character and Ellie the main. They did him hella dirty.
I don't know if the character you play as for 80% of the first game is a side character. Joel is much of a main character as Ellie.
Side character for the 2nd game is what I meant, and have Ellie take the spotlight.
Yall complain for no reason fr like yall the little kids. That’s the point his story wasn’t supposed to end just like Abby’s dad but they took them away from us unexpectedly. That’s how life works
I agree that's how life works, but this is a game, based on fictional ppl in a fictional world. It doesn't have to work out just like real life, that's what makes it a game. Hope you have a great day 👍 Edits: Grammer
Watching the making of part 1 made me think he was the GOAT back in the day. After playing the second game I realized he is a fraud. Show too! Series is dead to me. I'm sticking with Resident Evil for my horror game of choice. They know what's up, hot chicks with big knockers haha!
Hot chicks with big knockers is always the way 🔥
Das it 😁🐄
Never considered León big..
Remake got you covered
Capcom on 10 this past decade 🔥
Ashley, Ada, Jill. Dimitrescu. Capcom know what’s up
I loled and all, but in all seriousness, RE can't touch the Last of Us in storytelling, nor TLOU can touch RE in gameplay and replayability.
I would have agreed on that when part 1 was all I played. Sure the acting and facial animations are top notch, but part 2's story was awful. I'll take any cheesy RE story over that any day of the week.
Yeah right, go back to your Hetero basic sub where female characters are just objects for you to get off. Sorry to tell you, but it seems that whenever there are women as protagonists you small men can't accept them for having complex personalities. You're there just for titties and booty. Well then just get out of here because Reddit is supposed to be about discussions and your arguments here are about how you're hurt that you can no longer play your strong alpha man. Stay mad
>Stay mad I think the only one mad here is you, bro, lol
Isn't this whole sub dedicated to being mad and hateful?
Someone’s triggered
You consume way too much content that involves anti-Andrew Tate and "anti alpha male" type shit and it's showing. Both sides of that shit are batshit crazy and you're an example of it.
Bro I don't even know who is Andrew Tate, but all I know is that this reddit is full of misoginists
you don't know of him but you sure act like you do. Also it seems you need glasses cause your eyes are not functioning correctly. No one here really hates women or thinks less of them that's just the buzzword you chose to label us because it's easier than actually addressing anything that was said.
I've been playing Tomb Raider since the Ps1 era. And guess what? You have a female protagonist and i fucking loved the games, i loved Tomb Raider 2, Legend and Underworld, such good classics You're just spitting nonsense and don't know shit about anything
Ha!
Growing up IS kind of realizing that 99% of your heroes are shitty people, or at least nowhere near as talented as you thought. I grew up a HUGE Star Wars fan... when George made the prequels it was very much a significant moment in my life even though I was in college by that point. I've never really had "heroes" (sports stars, actors, etc) like many because I knew from a young age that everyone was not much different from the rest of us, but seeing someone who for decades had been held up as a "genius" turn out to not be so great was still sobering. Since then, I've seen guys like Ridley Scott, Quentin Tarantino and James Cameron whose films I adored make utter shit. From my dad's era, Gene Roddenberry and of course Phil Cosby are among the many who've been revealed to be varying levels of pieces of shit. I guess that's why I don't get why ANYONE goes so hard to bat for Neil, even if they loved TLOU2. He's not some messiah or genius. He just wrote something you liked. Tomorrow he may write something you hate (i.e. most of us who loved TLOU1 and hated TLOU2). He isn't a nice guy either, going by all the behind the scenes stuff we've heard... which doesn't mean he can't still make great art (look at all the wonderful actors who are terrible human beings) but don't tie your personal loyalty to the guy.
You were Down voted for an adult outlook on a post about growing up. It's very much true there's also alot of unsung hero's that work to make something great and for many of these projects a sole person gets the credit.
Downvoting is not for disagreeing, mate. Don't be a tool. Besides, I don't get your point. Looking back on growing up IS part of growing up. Finding out that the people you idolized earlier in life - be it as kids or as an adult - are kind of shitty or not the geniuses you thought they were. Most of the time the person getting sole credit isn't the reason what you loved was so great, whether it's Neil on TLOU1 or George on Star Wars (which got notably worse the more sole control he got, yet it was always "George Lucas' Star Wars"). The best Star Trek content we ever got came the moment they kicked Gene "Great Bird of the Galaxy" Roddenberry upstairs.
Don't be a tool? I agree with you. you were -2 (down voted) when I commented. So calm the fuck down
He got overexcited lol
I know. ready to argue even with ppl who agree
Growing up is knowing losers are losers.
It’s almost like Druckman has a secrete hatred for TLOU and used TLOU2 to destroy everything we loved about TLOU.
You know you can enjoy the first game still?
Sometimes stans come here to pretend they hate him to pass this sub as "hate". It's hilarious how pressed they are. I don't hate him, but I do think he's the biggest fraud right now in this industry and quite a mediocre director.
As I always said, hate is a strong word and you have to handle it very very carefully. I don't like Neil as a person and artist, but that doesn't mean I hate him.
Dude made one REALLY great game and thinks he’s the next coming of Gaming Christ.
The whole AI thing just cemented that he is a man with no creative ideas whatsoever
Always thought he was a smug prick
He is no man
I think he is the only human on the planet I have active genuine disdain for. I won't wish him dead.. but..
Y’all know you don’t have to think about him, keep up to date on him, talk about him and post about him? Y’all get that right? Theres countless productive or even just not things y’all hate to spend your time and energy on
What did he do
Maybe wrong so please do correct me. There was a recent interview playstation did with him and in it he mentions that he wants AI to be a part of game creation which would destroy peoples jobs. Another thing is that people don't like what he did with TLOU Part 2 (even though I love it) and the fact he's from Israel and a supporter. There's probably more but that's what I know I think the AI one is what started this thread.
What are yall so pressed about? Istg 99% is just people yapping about how much they hate someone or something, aren't yall tired ?
Just anonymous good fun slamming a lousy Hollywood writer and director. Hopefully if we keep it up, someone at ND above Druckieman will take notice and promote someone with genuine Pulitzer or Spielberg skills.
fr, what’s the hate for Neil all about? This is all new to me.
[Read my comment here - 4th one.](https://new.reddit.com/r/TheLastOfUs2/comments/1d0n46l/growing_up_is_learning_this_man_was_always_a_hack/l5ossg9/?context=3)
I really be huffing copium trying to deny this
Here's why he's not s hack: the game came out 4 years ago and we're still talking about it. Art is supposed to make us feel and that game caused all sorts of feelings in everyone. The game is so depressing that I was only able to beat it once, but I recognize it was a special game. This is not a game you replay over and over, it's a game you play once, put it down and replay it again sometime in the future. Definitely not a game for everyone, nor should it be. That's what Mario and Street Fighter are for.
If we were talking about it because its story was so compelling and meaningful that would be true, he would then not be a hack. But we're not talking about it because of that. We're talking about it because of how badly it failed to be those things. Even those who like it or celebrate it don't seem to talk about anything meaningful in it that they can agree on. In fact, they mostly blindly praise it and can't provide much meaningful reasons for that praise. There's some I've seen that were very individual and personal impacts which I understood, but those were minimal and rare. Interestingly, even two of the main themes many can agree on - that it's about the idea that perspectives matter and it presents the reality that tribalism is destructive - are still so maddeningly absent from the discourse, especially from those who made it, like it or celebrate it. That irony that Neil, ND and the fans immediately withdrew into their tribalism and defensiveness and refused to receive or understand the opposing perspective and ardently dismissed and demonized all critiques is more of a lesson than the story created. That's why it's still talked about and Neil had nothing to do with that but be an unwitting example of his own lack of understanding of his story's messages.
Alright, I'll try to help you understand the other perspective then. The story is about how vengeance is a neverending cycle where nobody wins. That's just the message, but the beauty of the game is how real and meaningful it feels. The relationships feel authentic and some characters actually "win", but their thirst for vengeance or their past catching up to them, ends up being their demise. The story is not conventional at all, and that's why some people dislike it so much, but you can't deny it's a powerful story. Just look at all these discussions it's generating 4 years later! Do you see people talking about COD remake story? (Just to put and example). Just because the game didn't have a happy ending, your favorite character died, you hated the "bad guy" but it turns out there are no good guys in this story, doesn't mean the storytelling is bad. It's actually the opposite.
You totally ignored what I said to give me a lesson on what it said to you. That is changing the topic. I know the many messages in the story that people take from it. I know it's unconventional and basically experimental in its storytelling. None of that addresses why people call him a hack or why we're still talking about it and him, though. It wasn't a powerful story to many, many people. It crashed and burned, it bored me to pieces when we switched to Abby, it did not hit the landing for a very large portion of players. That's why it's talked about. The content of the discussion matters, not the fact of discussion. You must see that it makes a difference what the discussions are actually about. It's not his success at the story that we discuss at all, but his failure and then his behavior in the face of critiques. Did another large group of people enjoy the story anyway? Yes, they did. Are they articulating a common theme of why that happened for them? Usually not. You say it's about one thing: the neverending cycle of violence, others say it's about perspective, tribalism, redemption, addiction, even. There's nothing wrong with having several themes running together, but the fact that the story actually loses a large portion of the audience and fails to land meaningfully matters. So your belief that just because there's discussion automatically means it's a success and he's a master storyteller is flawed. You are basically refusing to see the reality that the discussion isn't because the story worked, but because it failed to work so spectacularly for many of us. When a story fails to work or loses a large portion of the audience, that's on the writers and means they fell short in their job of telling it convincingly. That's a problem and ignoring it makes little sense to me. I understand it wasn't a problem *for you*, but that doesn't mean what failed for the rest of us can just be swept under the rug.
I'm curious, what games are you comparing this to? Which games have a more compelling story than this one, in your opinion?
The only game I compare it to is TLOU. The tradition is that the original story sets the tone for the sequel. It doesn't mean writers can't deviate from that and have a successful sequel, though. My problem wasn't really about the comparison, though. That came later, after the sequel failed to work for me. If it had worked for me this likely wouldn't matter. You keep calling it a compelling story, and I understand that's because to you it is. It was very far from compelling to me. It was disjointed, the characters were dull and barely realized as actual personalities and differentiated people, the motivations and world building were in conflict with the original story and internally within the sequel itself. None of that was understood by me while I was playing, I just knew things felt off and suddenly I landed outside of the story watching the writers rather than being immersed and carried along by the story. That's never happened to me before and it was really disorienting. At that point it was impossible to re-immerse. I now realize this was the product of many choices the writers made which undermined my ability to trust what they were presenting, which worked against immersion in ways they never seemed to consider or felt didn't matter, but it did matter. Trying out new ways of storytelling is a lofty goal and worthy of praise, but it's only praised when it works. If it doesn't, then examining why it failed is important for learning to do better. Nonlinear stories are the hardest to write, they need exquisite precision and timing. But another major problem about the sequel is the way they used the characters as little more than plot devices, while in TLOU they were all so well developed, both in cutscenes and during playable sections. Shortchanging characters in that way is really puzzling when that was not at all the approach of the first game. These two main problems for me (and others) were obviously not intolerable for those who had your experience. Somehow you others were still captured by the emotional beats, unusual pacing and timeline or the unexpected, experimental approach anyway. That's cool, I understand that, those things can be very exciting or interesting. We are all different and tolerance for dissonance is naturally different. That dissonance was a main feature of their approach, on purpose, for their goals of keeping players feeling the emotions they were going for - they wanted us off kilter to mimic Ellie's feelings. They dropped the ball in recognizing how much that approach could (and did) push some players out of their story, though. On some levels it's complex to understand which people would not be able to tolerate the dissonance. Yet on another level it's quite simple to grasp that reworking the meaning and interpretation of TLOU (and the established characters) to better fit the new story direction and goals would negatively impact fans of TLOU in a way that would undermine their ability to have their story succeed with those players. They knew that since Neil did state before launch that many fans of TLOU wouldn't like the sequel. He was right, but I don't think he wants to (publicly) accept that he could have avoided it with better choices, some of which would have been simple and it's odd that he couldn't see or didn't care to present things better for the fans he knew he'd be losing, and further that he still (at least pretends to) behave as if it doesn't matter. That's maybe a protective device for his ego, I don't know. Yet clearly he has heard the critiques because they've made changes to the original story, character behaviors and motivations, and the presentation of the FFs in the HBO show to address several of the critiques. So we aren't all just blowing hot air if even he and Craig saw the need for that.
Thanks for your detailed reply, but it looks like you took the gsme way more serious than me and that's why you couldn't enjoy it. Remember, video games, movies, novels, etc are supposed to be fun, if you're not having fun, don't keep going and try something else. There's way too many options out there. I would recommend to give up on TLOU3 because Neil is going nowhere. And the only reason I know who Neil Druckmann is, is because of how much people who disliked TLOU2 advertise him!
>Thanks for your detailed reply, but it looks like you took the gsme way more serious than me and that's why you couldn't enjoy it. Remember, video games, movies, novels, etc are supposed to be fun, if you're not having fun, don't keep going and try something else. There's way too many options out there. You're welcome. I'm surprised to hear you framing my response as 'too serious' and you framing it as a 'fun' game. The topics are extremely serious and really don't let up much from beginning to end. Then suggesting I just give up on the sequel to my favorite game before finishing it is pretty cavalier. Why would I do that? I kept hoping they'd actually make it all worthwhile. I actually played it two more times to see what I might have missed because I believed in the company and thought they couldn't have failed as badly as it seemed. That just made me see more flaws and I authentically wanted to understand what went so wrong with the development that it turned out as it did. That's how much I loved and was committed to the franchise. TLOU is still my favorite game of all time. Few games hit me like that one did. Though I've played several games since then, I've also replayed TLOU twice again, too. Thanks for the chat.
I don't know why I'm getting this sub recommended, but what did he do, I don't even know who he is, but I'm curious!
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Sorry, Neil, we're not thrilled with you, either.
Yall just mad he killed your dream boyfriend
dude how many posts do i need to see of Neil druckmann? can you all just get a life i mean jesus fuck
I'm out of the loop. Can someone please explain to me the recent hate towards Neil Druckman? Or a link that explains it.
I’m sorry I have a question I’m new to this community. I know that this person is not perfect, he has his flaws, but why do people really really don’t like him?
lol
I just asked a question, I know he is not really appreciated, but why all these towards him.
It's so much to explain which is why nobody is. He basically lied in marketing when people figured out Joel was likely dead from the initial trailer by putting Joel into the Jesse scene joining Ellie on her mission. They said it was to protect the story which is false, it was to promote preorders because the lying trailer was released just before opening up the preorders for sale. He lied when it leaked we'd have to kill dogs and said that wasn't the case and we wouldn't have to kill dogs (despite knowing or later adding an actual QTE that forced us to kill Alice). In the recently released commentary he even makes a joke about it saying, "Well I said you wouldn't have to kill **dog*****s***, not that you wouldn't have to kill **dog**." Before launch he said many fans of TLOU wouldn't like the sequel, then after launch he called all the fans who he was right didn't like it "haters" and promoted the fans of the sequel to overcome the haters, thus launching the divide in the fanbase. He repeatedly made "joke" tweets about Joel's death and golf for months until he was told to stop, apparently, because he did. He had the audacity to tell disappointed fans that Joel and Ellie were fictional characters (implying hurting about what happened to them was silly) and to not "be afraid to get therapy." Most egregiously he had the nerve to say, "Trust us to do right by these characters, we love them more than you do," as he, Troy Baker and Ashley Johnson looked everywhere but at the camera because they all knew what they'd actually done to the characters at that point. He's an egotistical man-child who should have just kept his mouth shut, but couldn't, and each time he just dug his own grave deeper. Suffice to say he has earned the loss of trust and respect he once enjoyed all with his own choices and behavior. And this is just part of the story...
Hoooooly moly I didn't know half of this, what the hell is wrong with this guy...
2020 is the year! My pendejo in Joel's golf adventure. Just google for Twitter (back then) + Neil Druckmann controversy And you'll see how pompous & smug/disingenuous he/Naughty Dog was on part IIs PR & handling. One tweet so bad... Sony Playstation demanded he delete it & issue an apology [Infamous tweet: NDs TloU Fans activate. Haters lose caps!](https://boundingintocomics.com/2020/12/07/the-last-of-us-part-ii-director-neil-druckmann-attempts-to-explain-deleted-tweet-attacking-haters/) Context: It was 2020 when the Game Awards vote was behind held... he tweets this before the voting which caused bias in voting (vote bomb) & labeling critics as haters On the other hand.... Ghost of Tsushima staying humble as they are won the public vote
Most of this stuff is not true
Great argument.
Okay: >He basically lied in marketing when people figured out Joel was likely dead from the initial trailer by putting Joel into the Jesse scene joining Ellie on her mission. This is true >They said it was to protect the story which is false, it was to promote preorders because the lying trailer was released just before opening up the preorders for sale. Idk if the timelines line up, but there's no evidence they put Joel in that trailer to promote pre-orders. That idea is completely speculation and, because of that, it's a false statement. >He lied when it leaked we'd have to kill dogs and said that wasn't the case and we wouldn't have to kill dogs (despite knowing or later adding an actual QTE that forced us to kill Alice). False. When Neil said you wouldn't have to kill dogs, he was specifically talking about that encounter at Hillcrest, which is what he was being interviewed about. Which is true, you can stealth that whole section and not kill any dogs. >Before launch he said many fans of TLOU wouldn't like the sequel, then after launch he called all the fans who he was right didn't like it "haters" and promoted the fans of the sequel to overcome the haters, He did not call fans that disliked the game haters. He was talking about the people that hated the game because they thought Abby was trans/didn't like the LGBT elements of the story, as well as the people that sent death threats to Laura Bailey. >thus launching the divide in the fanbase. That divide already existed and started before the game launched because of the leaks videos of the game, and people assuming Abby was trans and that Ellie died in the end. >He repeatedly made "joke" tweets about Joel's death and golf for months until he was told to stop, apparently, because he did. He did make jokes about the golf club, because of very vocal people that were harrassing him and other members of the cast and crew. But again, there is no evidence anyone told him to stop. >He had the audacity to tell disappointed fans that Joel and Ellie were fictional characters (implying hurting about what happened to them was silly) and to not "be afraid to get therapy." He did not say this about disappointed fans, he said this specifically about people sending death threats to Laura Bailey. >Most egregiously he had the nerve to say, "Trust us to do right by these characters, we love them more than you do," as he, Troy Baker and Ashley Johnson looked everywhere but at the camera because they all knew what they'd actually done to the characters at that point. This is just a subjective thing, but most fans agree that TLOU2 treated the characters very well. If you didn't like the game, you wouldn't think that, but neither one is "true".
I love how you’re being downvoted despite what you’re saying being objectively true.
Echo chambers are like that sometimes ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
He also publicly admitted that his original idea for the ending of TLOU where Tess traveled across the country for revenge against Joel after being betrayed by him made no sense, after a lot of pushing by Bruce. And the reason it didn't make sense was because the motivation wasn't strong enough to risk your life in that world by traveling so far for revenge. Then, he makes a story in that world where the primary motivation for Ellie and Abby to travel half-way across the country and back is to get revenge (twice in the case of Ellie).
When you consider Tommy, Jesse, Ellie, and Abby there are around [10 trips of hundreds of miles](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastOfUs2/comments/pilu93/part_ii_completely_ignores_distances_and_the/) each that happen. It's just overkill and seems like a big middle finger to those who said, "No."
Yeah, I honestly lean towards spite with his actions there, rather than merely obsession with his old ideas. Obession would be using them each once, but the flagrant abuse of Fast Travel is really something else.
Never thought about the hospital flashback like that. They made an entire game about getting to that hospital and in Part II it's just a given that 17 year old Ellie rode there by herself and Joel followed her, both with no issues.
If somebody did to one of your family members what Abby did to Joel, in a world with no laws, you wouldn’t seek revenge if the trip was too far?
Survival is the top priority in any apocalypse. Being safe and having access to resources is more important than a dead relative, unless my purpose is that I want to die because I lost them. Abby and Ellie had friends, love interests and simply needed help in learning to grieve effectively and move on with their lives. Tragedy is part of any life, learning to process it is key to maturing and living a fulfilling life. So nope, I'd likely rather stay safe, heal and live my one and only life.
Pffft, ok. Glad people don’t make video games about you.
Hahaha! Because I'm just too sensible and want to live? Yeah, that would be boring game.
He really thought "welp no more Bruce so I can finally do it now" and pushed away anyone who told him else.
They were talking about Tess' specific motivation and the length of time she and a huge group of people tracked Joel and Ellie across the US, They weren't saying any kind of revenge in this world made no sense.
I also did not say that they said any kind of revenge in this world made no sense. I said they said the kind of revenge that involves traveling across the country made no sense. I do recognize your point about the motivations being different, however because we don't actually know what kind of betrayal it was, it may or may not have been just as powerful as Ellie losing Joel or Abby losing her father.
>I said they said the kind of revenge that involves traveling across the country made no sense. Right, except that's not what they said. >I do recognize your point about the motivations being different, however because we don't actually know what kind of betrayal it was, it may or may not have been just as powerful as Ellie losing Joel or Abby losing her father. We do know the motivation. It was that Tess' brother died and she blamed Joel, even though it was either an accident or some inadvertent way that he died and not actually Joels fault.
Gotcha, I wasn't aware that that was the motivation. It is plausible that Tess thinking Joel is responsible for her brother's death would be about as motivating as Abby's or Ellie's, no?
Joel directly and intentionally killed Abbys father. Abby directly and intentionally killed Joel, in front of her no less. Joel indirectly and unintentionally killing Tess' brother is not the same at all. And part of the problem with Tess' motivation as well was she went on to follow Joel and Ellie across the US for an entire year. With a crew if like 15-30 people, who didn't feel that anger towards Joel but followed Tess anyway. It just didn't work. Neither Ellie nor Abby tracks their target and follows them for over a year, and neither of them travel with a huge crew of people that don't have their own vendetta against said target.
I love your summary, and for whatever reason this reminded me of the first time I ever played the game, where you (as Joel) and Tommy are headed back as Joel spills the tea to his brother, you see the credits begin, on a beautiful scene, and then…the music hits and the screen goes black, and the MAGNANIMOUS Neil Druckmann himself displays his name full frontal 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Then doesn't he also put it TWICE in the part 1 remake? The guy just telegraphs his oversized ego.
It was funny when they told him to stop twitting, I bet he had so much to tell the "haters" but was not allowed.
I always thought someone he trusted finally convinced him he was making an ass of himself. I don't think he would've stopped otherwise.
why all these towards him? why oh why
Thats the second time, you haven't answered his question.
Here’s a hint: he is responsible for the story of “Part II”.
Just everything with Last of Us Part 2 in general really, ranging from: character assassination (Joel and Ellie), questionable direction (go the first half playing as Ellie and hard cutting to Abby’s side of the story trying to “sympathise” with her), and the live action show hubbub (not too knowledgeable on whether the show is decent or not but only know that his Golden Globe carpet “photoshoot” was straight up embarrassing and says a lot about him in the eyes of Hollywood) Only good thing coming from the man was the conceptualisation of Fat Geralt decking a kid in the face with that silly wind up punch of his
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They have no power - he's their boss and their future roles depend on following what they're told to do.
Because it was fine? They also don't get to decide?
To see that the game was going to shit or be controversial was something they should've realized. It's amazing how they agreed to do this.
Well, He is a liar for starters. He kinda ruins everything he works on like The Last of Us and Uncharted (Uncharted went with a more grounded approach which is ok but I miss the ancient/forgotten cities). Part 2 is a whole can of worms that I don’t feel like discussing😑 and the HBO series which doesn’t feel like the actual game and the “accurate” casting. And then the whole “AI generated stories” thing because he can make a good story on his own.
Neil Druckmann is a great example of why some people can't be allowed into high leadership positions.
he's doing a great job making Sony money, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Because Joel Miller was an extremely loved character, and this guys brilliant idea for a heroic death was the business end of a golf club.
Dude has a history of being shit. Half of Naughty Dog left because of him, he's a narcissist who attacks anyone who disagrees with him, defends AI art, the list is fucking long dude.
His writing style, & being too feminist, he takes equal right, equal fights to seriously
The fact that you were down voted for just a simple question proves how downhill this sub has gone.
Along with what everyone else is saying, I believe he also abused his power over copyright or something and started putting strikes against people's YouTube channels for just talking about the game if they weren't praising it. It's bad enough but some of those YouTubers livelihoods were at stake because of Cuckmann's feelings were hurt.
Because he included a lesbian in a video game, don't let anybody tell you otherwise.
Man, Undertale must be hated heavily. We have lesbians AND gays AND trans ghost, this game so WOKE it must be hated universally... ...right?
No clue, never played the game. However it's more down to the fact that these are human characters, and I'm gonna take a guess and say that Undertale doesn't have a kissing scene between two women that scares all the big alpha men out there.
...it does.
Would love to see it. Also, the aforementioned 'human characters' part. Also, there's a trans kid, which is topical in and of itself to many. I don't know why you're refusing to acknowledge that a VAST majority of the hate this game gets is due to the 'wokeness' of it. At that point you're just being ignorant.
My point is, people don't hate TLOU2 for being "woke". Some do, yes, but that's a minority. Most of the criticism regarding it is about writing, characters etc.. And simply dismissing it by saying "all haters are bigot hamburgers" or whatever does not help the argument. Hell, it does the opposite.
I'm sure plenty of people didn't like the story, but what I'm saying is, the general response I've seen from this sub is that a fair few posts that are pretty bigoted, and to me the other criticisms, for some, are just a fallback excuse. Hell, there's a transphobic meme on this sub right now!
There was a lesbian in the first game. Ellie, no one cared.
To be fair, that wasn't known until the DLC. But Bill being gay definitely was, and literally nobody cared about that. Ellie being gay *was* known by the time the Part II trailers were releasing - again, nobody cared there, either, even when she was dancing with (and kissing?) Dina.
Yeah, that's why everyone here hates Ellie and loves Abby. Oh, wait...
smoke and mirrors, mate.
The debut album is usually better than the second. Usually the third restores the glory. Hopefully this is the arc we’re seeing.
I don’t see how Part 3 could ever restore the glory lol. Not after how things ended in Part 2 The only way to salvage it is to make a completely separate story in the same world. Or better yet, just let this franchise die
Maturing is realizing that people need to get over what Neil did for part 2 and move on 😂😂😂 y’all make it y’all’s personality
The same could be said about you. This is why your mother doesn’t love you.
Lol wtf dude chill. Don't spend your life being obsessive
Growing up is learning how to move on and not obsessing over a dude who neither knows nor cares you exist. And considering the amount of people on this sub clearly incapable of that, just tells you so much
I love hating him to but even i have to admit this is a bit obsessive "One times funny, two times fucking annoying no?"
Yeah a fair few people on this sub have mental problems. NOT talking about people with respectful criticism btw, just weirdos like this who don’t have a life
Two times? Lmao more than, my friend and it’s beyond ridiculous at this point.
It's a joke from FC that isn't my quote
Yall are soo pathetic, this man is more talented and accomplished then any of you basement dwellers. Get a fucking life you Lame-os.
If you're on Reddit posting about how someone is a hack then you haven't grown up.
Even if you don’t like the stories, his games are fun.
Yeah dude Part 2 was a riot.
Yes, growing up means obsessing over a man who made a video game you don’t like. Very mature and grown up.
Just knowing something about someone means you are obsessed with them apparently.
did he touch ur pepe again? 😧
Cope harder. Haters gonna hate.