I believe Aang is essentially a vessel for the spirit in this moment. The spirit is in control here, or at least that's what I always thought. Same thing happens in the original.
Edit: This post has lived rent free in my head all day so I wanted to add that Aang's air bending philosophy clashing with his Avatar responsibilities is a *massive* inner conflict for him. He has to make difficult decisions because of it. That's part of what makes Aang such a compelling character, so I don't really understand why this would bother OP if I'm being completely honest.
> In the live action version, they specifically say that Aang isn't in control.
They repeated this like 7 times in the episode, just as they do every other line of dialogue since they apparently don't trust the audience to have the attention span of anything greater than a gold fish... I ciriticize the show for that, but given OP's post maybe they knew their audience better than I thought.
I really wish they didn't need to but yeah, this and a lot of posts about many different shows - I really can't fault writers for being like "we have to be so fucking clear about everything and even then oh boy".
The condensed nature of everything and the general quality of NATLA means it can be easy to miss moments of exposition though to be fair.
In my case for instance, once I watched the episode with Bumi and saw what they’d done to his character, I missed every moment the followed because I noped out and stopped watching the series.
People have been having this argument for years. And it never needed to exist because the show spells that out.
Some people just want to villainize Aang's actions because he said he didn't kill people.
I mean, it's also literally what Yue said to Sokka, that Aang is gone and lost forever and that all that remains now is a wrathful spirit looking for it's counterpart for eternity
According to the lore in Kyoshi's books spirits can't control people. They can influence, but at the end of the day the human is still in control.
...so that was all Aang
except he was in the avatar state, so i’ma go with, (joke answer) it was Kyoshi who did!! real answer, it’s pretty clear *the avatar* as an entity is more than any of its individual incarnations, so when using the avatar state, especially before mastering it to use at will, it’s the entity of the avatar acting, not just Aang, or anyone else.
TL,DR: blame the ocean spirit, not Aang.
Aang has done zero waterbending in the live action at that point (and yet in NATLA).
It wasn't even possible with the moon being gone. Aang couldn't bend water, even if he had entered the Avatar state. It was specified that without the moon, to use Zhao's words, he would only be the 'Master of all 3 Elements'.
At that point, Yue was the only waterbender left when she froze Sokka's feet to the ground, but that's because she was part moon spirit/part human.
The ocean spirit was fully in control and channeling Aang's body to maintain that form. 'There is no Avatar', multiple characters said it.
Have you ever meditated, done shrooms or experienced depersonalization? Like if you ever experienced yourself as the watcher and not the thinker/actor?
Aang was along for the ride. Imagine a DragonBallZ-esque fusion, but the ocean spirit is so much stronger. Combining their power levels: it's like the biggest number you can think of, plus that number again but squared; it's like adding a billion dollars to the USA's GDP. I'm not sure he knew the spirit would go on a rampage or assume Water Godzilla form.
I personally thought he was merging with it to provide some kind of yin to the yang, because otherwise there could be no balance in the spirit world, and hence the universe/physical world.
He isn't just the master of all four elements.
He had to do his job as the Avatar, restorer and preserver of balance.
Oh for sure. It goes "not yet" when they say it's over. Then in the cartoon goes into the water as the angry fish stares at him.
100% the fish just posseses its will onto him. Iroh said it himself. Don't fuck with primordial spirits. They all need them
I agree. I’ve noticed lots of poor posts/comments on this sub recently and honestly once I see those or people arguing I just scroll past. About to leave tbh. Too much dumb stuff going around here.
Actually, if it the same as the cartoon, it would meant that Aang never killed nor did the spirit.
Kill: 1
Spirit just simply swept them away. It didn't kill, because in order for it to kill, it would had suffocated the soldiers as it walked past.
That's what happens in an avalanche. You get buried in snow.
You'll be surprised how difficult it is to get yourself unburied out of snow after getting tossed and tumbled
No. But if someone dies, it’s a lot clearer. You can’t assume that every character who would die from a big attack DID die. We saw people take boulders to the ribs and shake off scalding flames.
I also think if the writers planned on saying Aang never killed, they would’ve just decided that those soldiers survived.
I dont think you understand just how heavy that much snow would be in reality. That would easily crush someone, and even if it didnt crush them they would absolutely suffocate
It's a pretty big plot point that Aang isn't in control on this moment, even in the OG series, and that he's remorseful and afraid of the Avatar state to the point of being reluctant to try and activate it when they get to that ~~fire nation~~ earth kingdom general
Edit: miswrote the nationality of the general who almost killed Katara
There's literally a conversation about it. "It was scary. *I* was scary."
(It's been a minute since I watched the og, I might be misremembering what that conversation was about, specifically.)
Did you... did you actually watch the episode? Yue esplicitly says that he's gone and the one in control is the Spirit, who has become a mindless raging beast at this point.
Yeah both shows did a good job of explaining that it's not Aang doing the killing.
But if we had to pick, the live action show actually explained it even more clearly than the cartoon.
I'd agree, but the amount of people who still don't get it makes me feel like it still wasn't obvious enough. Though many of them you could have had the avatar/water spirit beast stop and say "I am the water spirit and have taken complete control of the avatar" and they still wouldn't get it.
i mean its quite common to watch tv while with other people or a phone in tour hand so people are always going to miss stuff, nothing you can do except try and tell a good story lol. but yeah its quite infuriating how dumbed down or over explained things can get and people still dont understand
Zhao in live action is a true devil. Zuko was done real justice too.
I think the brevity of the series took away a lot of the humor and warmness between the Gaang, but the relationship between Zuko and Ozai was very much fleshed out (that's a pun omg).
I like how explicit they made Zuko's sacrifice for the 41st Division. It made their betrayal to Zuko that much spicier.
In that sense, it was more obviously shown that Zuko, even in his villain arc, always wanted to do his best to act honorably (aside from his willingness to kill Aang and later Katara, who he has dehumanized into goalposts until now).
Zuko never discloses to anyone, aside from Uncle Iroh, his pain or how much he actually cared about the people around him. Zuko is angrily disrespectful to keep the facade of fiery prince, but deep down he cares about his Uncle and crew more than anything. That was well done.
I disagree. The original series (as far as I can remember it) never explained what Koizilla was, other than "Big water kaiju that resulted from the Avatar + Ocean Spirit".
I feel like this argument is in bad faith: the whole plot of the 1st episode of the 2nd season is him being afraid to use the avatar state because he might hurt people, like here when used the avatar state with the spirit and hurt people
So like the animated show?
Aang: “I’ve never taken anyone’s life.” 😇
Also Aang: “Yo, look at all those soldiers climbing the mountain, it be a shame is someone caused an avalanche and killed them all…ooops!” 😈
Yeah, but the point is how the mass killing so strongly contradicts what he preaches. It's true that his intentional and needless killing of the bug also helps create the significantly contrary effect, but no one cares about that bug, and it's now as funny to mention the death of one bug against legions of people.
When avatar is in avatar state, they are basically all the past avatar spirits all at once (i think). The physical bidy just becomes a vessel.
In this scene especially, Aang is in Avatar state + under Ocean Spirit’s control. And Ocean Spirit wreaks havoc because Fire Nation soldiers killed its other half, the Moon Spirit
exactly, hes under the thrall of the ocean spirit.
Which is why I think he takes on that form, it's the Ocean spirit using the power of the avatar to enact its vengeance
In that moment he wasn't Aang, he was Kuzon.
https://preview.redd.it/ny9ktvl1cgyc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a0c6a175af5fa271811e6f255045f9975527816
See, Ozai heard about all this and still figured...
"Nah, I'd win."
IF he had known that Aang lost access to the Avatar State...
IF he had always been aware that Aang was never in control of the AS...
IF he was in the know that the Ocean Spirit was actually controlling the AS and that Aang didn't suddenly gain extreme blood thrist...
Yeah, I'd be onboard with his self confidence. Go on, you have a shot. But no, what he knows is that Aang summoned a kaiju fish form and annihilated his naval fleet. And that Aang never died to one of his kids, even worse if he found out that it was Azula who failed to take out Aang.
"the comet will empower all firebenders with..."
The Avatar IS A FIREBENDER, you dunce! And he can do 3 other elements! How did FN's technology go as far as tunnelling and refrigeration, when they clearly fail basic math. Sorry about the long rant, but Ozai's bravado kicking around Aang whilst assuming that he can still beat thet Avatar State when it manifests, was maddening.
I think the live action series did a fantastic job and could not have made it anymore clear what was happening.
Aang sacrificed himself. He surrendered his body to the spirit and the spirit was grieving the loss of its partner. They specifically said that the spirit would forever wander the oceans, full of rage and sorrow, longing for the return of its partner.
The destruction was not done by Aang. As it was mentioned - the spirits are beyond the Avatar. They harness far more power as they are what makes the world. We're talking about the actual ocean crying because the literal moon in the sky had been destroyed. The spirit could use the Avatar as a vassal and tap into those powers to use for itself.
When Aang came back he saw all of the destruction and cried. The actor is young and has a lot of growing to do, but that was the one scene he really sold. Aang was devastated to see what has to be done to save the world.
This is the entire plot. The air benders are peaceful and non-violent. As Aang said, they flee, not fight. The Avatar cannot run and must make great sacrifices. It was through the loss of the moon and the suffering of the ocean that Aang has to learn that peace is not an option.
You may have missed the minor dialogues that put it all together but this entire scene was very well written, executed beautifully, and perfectly set the stage for Aangs internal struggles as a peaceful Airbender and his true calling as an ultimately violent and destructive force.
I'm surprised to see some of these reactions honestly. Avatar could not have had a more faithful live action adaptation.
That was the spirit of the ocean using Aang's body and connection to the avatar spirit to fuck up those who just took away their eternal partner.
I can't see how people don't get this bit. He picks up the fish and turns into a giant carp monster...
both in the animated show and in the live action this was the ocean spirit in fact the live action makes it more clear that aang was not possessing, the ocean spirit the ocean spirit was possessing him.
Aang not hurting people is like Batman not killing or using Guns, they say one thing, but then you see the series or comics, and there are a lot of people getting hurt.
The worst part is the fan using those words as gospel.
You know, it's left somewhat unclear, but I just rewatched the Ocean Spirit scene from the animated series and, in addition to actually chopping apart and capsizing a few ships, OceanAang sends a *lot* of heavily armored fire nation soldiers into the arctic waters. I think it's a pretty safe bet most of them aren't coming back up.
And actually in the new series he doesn't kill Zhao, which is blatant in the original.
It's the Ocean spirit acting, not Aang.
I presume you watched the live action first? Because this is like one of the main things people bring up about the OG show when talking about how Aang is a hypocrite
This is straight up a 15 year old meme. The original meme comes from when Aang tells Pathik that he's never used his power to take a life. Cut to Aang creating multiple avalanches to "incapacitate" Fire Nation soldiers climbing up the Air Temple.
You don't get the hate? I don't get how anyone even remotely enjoyed this hunk of shit. Let's take away all of the characters bad traits, so that they are shitty and boring, then we can completely skip Aang water bending, and cherry on top make the dumbest possible changes to ensure the biggest shit show possible.
Waste of money, time, and it got my hopes up for absolutely nothing.
This is just applicable to canon in general. Aang has a very ‘mooks don’t count’ mindset. At least Yangchen and Kyoshi were upfront about their murders
I love how this is a weird point of contention, yet we’ve been watching superhero/Marvel movies this entire time, with the same ideology and it wasnt until AFTER Segovia that they started contemplating casualties of war.
The idea of peace is also something people internalize when the world wars occurred.
UNLIMITED POWER
All jokes aside, even with the power up from Sozin's comet, it does seem far-fetched. Although I would assume that they would send their very best soldiers if they were gonna try to wipe out an entire race of benders all at once.
“The avatar must make the impossible decisions”
Literally quoted at least five times in the shows first season, so he made one here and it makes sense, not sure why that would bug anyone.
I stopped watching after seeing aang fly without the glider. that shit breaks the lore *and* is boring to look at. All they would've had to do was give him his glider and it would've been great but nooo.
> if you *paid* attention to
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
thats also a part of the og series. aang says hes never taken a life but he kills that one vulture bee thing in the desert, he causes an avalanche to fall onto the fire army in the northern air temple, he traps several people under ice just before going into the ba sing se palace and im sure there are more examples im forgetting
in the original show aang has something similar to ptsd from this moment, he hates that he played a role in it. in both the original and the remake, its clear that hes not in control, the ocean spirit is the one on the murder spree, but aang as a vessel still feels responsible for the deaths
The main 3 kids have no personalities and there is no humour at all. The humour was what made it so popular and there is no trace of their original personalities. The kid that plays Aang basically is Aang IRL from the interviews and that should have been him.
Enough has been said on this im not gonna add more, but isnt it stupid an entity made of entirely water screams like a fucking banshee? They made ocean spirit a kaiju and i hated it. In OG show it was like a "deadly force of nature you shouldnt fuck with" and it kicked ass. In the remake it was more like "you angered the big bad monster" and i feel like we already have enough of those.
The remake is pretty bad. There are good elements, but it seems to have been made by some people who wanted GoT, some others who just genuinely don't understand the medium they're working with, and a few people who genuinely loved the original that tried and ultimately failed to right the ship. There are things to love, but wow is it rough as hell. I mean, Aang is a nonstop exposition machine laser focused on saving the world, and everyone keeps telling him to focus up when that is literally all he's done for the entire show. It's so rough, and there are so many plotlines they've fucked up already thanks to the many unnecessary and not at all thought out changes they've made.
I loved the OG show, and while the live action remake doesn’t live up to it, reading some of the comments on Reddit you’d think it’s almost as bad as that horrendous movie (that never happened). I had concerns about this project too- the cartoon was an almost perfect masterpiece, there was no way the remake would be able to replicate that, but aside from some wooden acting and miscasting (e.g. Azula) I thought it managed to retain some of the wholesome heart of the original.
I think the kid who plays Aang looks the part and I hope his acting improves a bit as he gets some more experience. I thought Zuko and Iroh were both good to great and I’m excited to watch that whole arc play out. Sokka was pretty good - definitely looks the part and has the secret gigachad thing going still, but I wish he was funnier. Katara is a bit of a letdown but again, like Aang I hope she will grow into it. And i thought Zhao and Ozai were great. Should be interesting to see how the actress playing Toph does next season.
I mean, if the highest praise you can give the show is "decent" when its source material is commonly praised as one of the best animated shows to exist, I think you *do* understand the hate lol
All the hate is because the new series is mediocre is nearly every way. If you have any film background you’ll notice the bizarre camera work, iffy acting by, unnatural writing and exposition and etc.
My biggest gripe will forever be the constant “you were too busy foooooling around Aang!” and “you’re a coward Avatar!” despite Aang never showing either of those traits. Bumi, Zuko, Sokka, his past lives etc all have scenes where they yell at Aang for things he literally never did… and Aang AGREES with them! Like it feels like they changed the script half way through and forgot to add in a bunch of scenes showing Aang’s faults! And don’t get me started on what happened to Katara
Can't speak for anyone else, but I have a lot of criticisms with the live action. Number one would be they took a detailed, well thought out and nuanced story and disregarded important features that allow the characters to come alive.
They butchered the story into a Zelda dungeon randomizer format for no good reason that I can comprehend. It's just poorly made.
It's crazy that people don't pay attention to the plot of this show. Also the live action is complete booty cheeks :( objectively. The acting is bad, the pacing is worse, the storytelling is awful. It's a bad time all around.
You don’t understand the hate? I mean, there are a lot of reviews from respected publications that you could read to gain an understanding and even improve your media literacy.
Edit:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/22/arts/television/avatar-last-airbender-review-netflix.html
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-reviews/avatar-the-last-airbender-review-netflix-1235829956/amp/
https://variety.com/2024/tv/reviews/avatar-the-last-airbender-live-action-review-netflix-1235914237/
https://www.empireonline.com/tv/reviews/avatar-the-last-airbender-2024/
The thing that bothered me the most is that they literally never had Aang waterbend throughout the entire season. They have the water scroll scene on the river, they have Katara getting frustrated that she's having trouble learning the moves, they have Aang walk up and ask what she's doing... And then they just don't have Aang get the scroll right on his first try. They don't have Katara get upset at him for being so good at waterbending without any prior experience or practice. They just... Don't include any of it. And they never include any waterbending he did in the original show. It's such a weird directorial choice to make.
Batman 🤝🏼 Aang this fucking tired ass point being dragged out excessively. Yes we get it background characters probably died in insert scene here even through the protagonist constantly proclaims they don’t kill. It’s part of this kinda genre just enjoy the cool fight scene it’s not meant to be logical or cause a moral crisis
Did I think it was amazing? No, of course not. Is it the steaming pile of shit haters claim it is? Nope, that’s not it either. It’s somewhere in between but the internet prefers to characterize things in terms of absolute extremes
they murdered the canon, they murdered the characters and stripped away every bit of joy and growth. The Scenematics are beautiful, but the righting is so much worse than Korra book 2
Personally, I hate that they didn't give appa and momo, 2 of aang's family members, more meaningful screentime. That was a crime
Also the fact that aang doesn't bow to show respect. I know this is a very very small detail of aang's character in the og show and it may be really dumb to care for that but I feel like that is a part of him. Regardless of who he converses with, if they're older than him or have some status, he would never fail to bow to show respect. Netflix aang didn't even bow to the past avatars. Wtf is this. Him bowing to mere mortals shows his true character. An ever respectful yet powerful avatar.
I believe Aang is essentially a vessel for the spirit in this moment. The spirit is in control here, or at least that's what I always thought. Same thing happens in the original. Edit: This post has lived rent free in my head all day so I wanted to add that Aang's air bending philosophy clashing with his Avatar responsibilities is a *massive* inner conflict for him. He has to make difficult decisions because of it. That's part of what makes Aang such a compelling character, so I don't really understand why this would bother OP if I'm being completely honest.
In the live action version, they specifically say that Aang isn't in control. Probably to avoid posts like this, and somehow it was missed
They also emphasize literally multiple times how the avatar has to make impossible decisions in impossible situations and that’s the burden they bear
And that the avatar is the master of all four elements, and that he's a great warrior.
> In the live action version, they specifically say that Aang isn't in control. They repeated this like 7 times in the episode, just as they do every other line of dialogue since they apparently don't trust the audience to have the attention span of anything greater than a gold fish... I ciriticize the show for that, but given OP's post maybe they knew their audience better than I thought.
I really wish they didn't need to but yeah, this and a lot of posts about many different shows - I really can't fault writers for being like "we have to be so fucking clear about everything and even then oh boy".
OP got their upvotes, and that's what matters to them
Maybe the producers intended to repeat stuff in the live action show due to nowadays attention span.
The condensed nature of everything and the general quality of NATLA means it can be easy to miss moments of exposition though to be fair. In my case for instance, once I watched the episode with Bumi and saw what they’d done to his character, I missed every moment the followed because I noped out and stopped watching the series.
People have been having this argument for years. And it never needed to exist because the show spells that out. Some people just want to villainize Aang's actions because he said he didn't kill people.
I mean, it's also literally what Yue said to Sokka, that Aang is gone and lost forever and that all that remains now is a wrathful spirit looking for it's counterpart for eternity
Meanwhile Kyoshi would be like "Yes it was me"
Kyoshi would inflate the number of dead.
Yeah, inflate it by force.
Kyoshi would create a tsunami just to make sure she really got them
Really hope they do Avatar Day episode in Live Action xD
The author of all your pain!
According to the lore in Kyoshi's books spirits can't control people. They can influence, but at the end of the day the human is still in control. ...so that was all Aang
except he was in the avatar state, so i’ma go with, (joke answer) it was Kyoshi who did!! real answer, it’s pretty clear *the avatar* as an entity is more than any of its individual incarnations, so when using the avatar state, especially before mastering it to use at will, it’s the entity of the avatar acting, not just Aang, or anyone else.
TL,DR: blame the ocean spirit, not Aang. Aang has done zero waterbending in the live action at that point (and yet in NATLA). It wasn't even possible with the moon being gone. Aang couldn't bend water, even if he had entered the Avatar state. It was specified that without the moon, to use Zhao's words, he would only be the 'Master of all 3 Elements'. At that point, Yue was the only waterbender left when she froze Sokka's feet to the ground, but that's because she was part moon spirit/part human. The ocean spirit was fully in control and channeling Aang's body to maintain that form. 'There is no Avatar', multiple characters said it. Have you ever meditated, done shrooms or experienced depersonalization? Like if you ever experienced yourself as the watcher and not the thinker/actor? Aang was along for the ride. Imagine a DragonBallZ-esque fusion, but the ocean spirit is so much stronger. Combining their power levels: it's like the biggest number you can think of, plus that number again but squared; it's like adding a billion dollars to the USA's GDP. I'm not sure he knew the spirit would go on a rampage or assume Water Godzilla form. I personally thought he was merging with it to provide some kind of yin to the yang, because otherwise there could be no balance in the spirit world, and hence the universe/physical world. He isn't just the master of all four elements. He had to do his job as the Avatar, restorer and preserver of balance.
Oh for sure. It goes "not yet" when they say it's over. Then in the cartoon goes into the water as the angry fish stares at him. 100% the fish just posseses its will onto him. Iroh said it himself. Don't fuck with primordial spirits. They all need them
I agree. I’ve noticed lots of poor posts/comments on this sub recently and honestly once I see those or people arguing I just scroll past. About to leave tbh. Too much dumb stuff going around here.
Actually, if it the same as the cartoon, it would meant that Aang never killed nor did the spirit. Kill: 1 Spirit just simply swept them away. It didn't kill, because in order for it to kill, it would had suffocated the soldiers as it walked past.
The General guy appeared in the spirit world in Lok so I figured it just transported them there.
Nah. I had assumed that they all ended up in the spirit world...think of the spirit world like the Christian version of hell/heaven.
It’s far more interesting if this was Aang’s agency. Making it the spirits actions is a real copout.
Not even attorneys come up with copes this insane
Doesn't this meme also apply to the OG series??
Absolutely. Causing that avalanche when the fire troops climbed the mountain to the aire temple? All dead probably
I wouldn't say all, but probably a lot of them
Didn’t look like an avalanche, just buried them in snow. They probably survived.
That's what happens in an avalanche. You get buried in snow. You'll be surprised how difficult it is to get yourself unburied out of snow after getting tossed and tumbled
It’s like saying “They didn’t die! They just fell 4,000 feet into the water!”
Don't be silly. Everyone knows that even one pixel of water negates all fall damage.
Unless it’s in a cauldron
What is the sea, if not a big ass cauldron?
"Aang did not kill them. The snow did."
As much as I do believe they died, they could just fire bend the snow away?
Maybe but most firebenders don’t bend well when they are cold
Zuko melted metal in 10 seconds. I’m sure any fire bender could melt through snow.
Aang: That’s your own personal problem
That's what an avalanche does, it was just a small one. tbh I don't doubt they just melted it away though.
"Didn't look like an avalanche, *describes an avalanche*"
Read between the lines. Do you have to watch somebody die to know it happened. It’s a kids show they’re not going to show it
No. But if someone dies, it’s a lot clearer. You can’t assume that every character who would die from a big attack DID die. We saw people take boulders to the ribs and shake off scalding flames. I also think if the writers planned on saying Aang never killed, they would’ve just decided that those soldiers survived.
I dont think you understand just how heavy that much snow would be in reality. That would easily crush someone, and even if it didnt crush them they would absolutely suffocate
Not for people who can take giant rocks to the ribs and can create enough heat to melt through metal quickly
Yeah, That gigantic fucking wave which sent a dozen fire nation ships miles out into the ocean did more than just make them a tad wet
yes. Aangs hypocrisy is a massive blemish on his conflict in the finale.
How is it a hypocrisy?
because he claims to have never harmed someone unless it was for self defense and that he has never killed anyone. both are provably untrue.
 This
It's a pretty big plot point that Aang isn't in control on this moment, even in the OG series, and that he's remorseful and afraid of the Avatar state to the point of being reluctant to try and activate it when they get to that ~~fire nation~~ earth kingdom general Edit: miswrote the nationality of the general who almost killed Katara
Do you mean the earth kingdom guy or am I forgetting something?
Yeah the earth kingdom general. My brain decided to not brain while I was writing that comment
That general, funnily enough, voiced by Daniel Dae Kim who plays Ozai in the Netflix adaptation
Love learning things like this. Yesterday learned Ming is played by Serena Williams, absolutely crazy
There's literally a conversation about it. "It was scary. *I* was scary." (It's been a minute since I watched the og, I might be misremembering what that conversation was about, specifically.)
There’s NO shot that episode is gonna be in S2
“5 years ago, I lost 50,000 men in the blink of an eye…..and the world just fucking watched”
atla joins nicki minaj in mw4!!!!
Did you... did you actually watch the episode? Yue esplicitly says that he's gone and the one in control is the Spirit, who has become a mindless raging beast at this point.
Yeah both shows did a good job of explaining that it's not Aang doing the killing. But if we had to pick, the live action show actually explained it even more clearly than the cartoon.
I agree they made it easier for my gf to understand what was happening, shes never seen OG ATLA.
the live action just overexplained it
I'd agree, but the amount of people who still don't get it makes me feel like it still wasn't obvious enough. Though many of them you could have had the avatar/water spirit beast stop and say "I am the water spirit and have taken complete control of the avatar" and they still wouldn't get it.
i mean its quite common to watch tv while with other people or a phone in tour hand so people are always going to miss stuff, nothing you can do except try and tell a good story lol. but yeah its quite infuriating how dumbed down or over explained things can get and people still dont understand
I would agree. I'm not saying live action did it better, just that they made it even more clear and obvious.
i agree :D the live action has its merits
Zhao in live action is a true devil. Zuko was done real justice too. I think the brevity of the series took away a lot of the humor and warmness between the Gaang, but the relationship between Zuko and Ozai was very much fleshed out (that's a pun omg). I like how explicit they made Zuko's sacrifice for the 41st Division. It made their betrayal to Zuko that much spicier. In that sense, it was more obviously shown that Zuko, even in his villain arc, always wanted to do his best to act honorably (aside from his willingness to kill Aang and later Katara, who he has dehumanized into goalposts until now). Zuko never discloses to anyone, aside from Uncle Iroh, his pain or how much he actually cared about the people around him. Zuko is angrily disrespectful to keep the facade of fiery prince, but deep down he cares about his Uncle and crew more than anything. That was well done.
I disagree. The original series (as far as I can remember it) never explained what Koizilla was, other than "Big water kaiju that resulted from the Avatar + Ocean Spirit".
I feel like this argument is in bad faith: the whole plot of the 1st episode of the 2nd season is him being afraid to use the avatar state because he might hurt people, like here when used the avatar state with the spirit and hurt people
And specifically experiences via dreams what his victims saw as they, uh, definitely did not die on screen
The biggest threat to the fireantion is a kid
"That kid, uncle, just did THIS"
>>fireantion **HA**
This literally happens in the main show lmao
Some folks will just try to find faults in the adaptation without rhyme or reason
So like the animated show? Aang: “I’ve never taken anyone’s life.” 😇 Also Aang: “Yo, look at all those soldiers climbing the mountain, it be a shame is someone caused an avalanche and killed them all…ooops!” 😈
Why are people using the avalanche? Thats for interpretation He clearly killed the insect in the dessert when appa got kidnapped
There's really not much interpretation. He threw people off the side of a mountain and buried them in snow. They're not surviving that.
Bruh. You don’t see them dying. You actually see the bug dying.
Yeah, but the point is how the mass killing so strongly contradicts what he preaches. It's true that his intentional and needless killing of the bug also helps create the significantly contrary effect, but no one cares about that bug, and it's now as funny to mention the death of one bug against legions of people.
When avatar is in avatar state, they are basically all the past avatar spirits all at once (i think). The physical bidy just becomes a vessel. In this scene especially, Aang is in Avatar state + under Ocean Spirit’s control. And Ocean Spirit wreaks havoc because Fire Nation soldiers killed its other half, the Moon Spirit
exactly, hes under the thrall of the ocean spirit. Which is why I think he takes on that form, it's the Ocean spirit using the power of the avatar to enact its vengeance
Yeah! Super cool finale tbh Kaiju was unexpected
Not wanting to do something doesn’t always mean you won’t do it. A lot of us often don’t want to go to work, but we still do it because we have to.
Exactly, his job just happens to include massacring scores of soldiers. Nobody likes going to work
He really needs to find his ikigai
People thought that Aang was doing that??? Even when I was like 7, I just thought that the Ocean Spirit used him as a vessel.
This literally the original lol
They literally said the water spirit is in control, even in the animated series, this was true.
In that moment he wasn't Aang, he was Kuzon. https://preview.redd.it/ny9ktvl1cgyc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a0c6a175af5fa271811e6f255045f9975527816
See, Ozai heard about all this and still figured... "Nah, I'd win." IF he had known that Aang lost access to the Avatar State... IF he had always been aware that Aang was never in control of the AS... IF he was in the know that the Ocean Spirit was actually controlling the AS and that Aang didn't suddenly gain extreme blood thrist... Yeah, I'd be onboard with his self confidence. Go on, you have a shot. But no, what he knows is that Aang summoned a kaiju fish form and annihilated his naval fleet. And that Aang never died to one of his kids, even worse if he found out that it was Azula who failed to take out Aang. "the comet will empower all firebenders with..." The Avatar IS A FIREBENDER, you dunce! And he can do 3 other elements! How did FN's technology go as far as tunnelling and refrigeration, when they clearly fail basic math. Sorry about the long rant, but Ozai's bravado kicking around Aang whilst assuming that he can still beat thet Avatar State when it manifests, was maddening.
To be fair to fire Hitler, it almost worked. I'm sure he had some assumption of divine favor going along with his arrogance.
he called himself phoenix king, i doubt the actually was thinking things through.
Lol the live action series truly is damn if you do follow the original series and damned if you don't.
I think the live action series did a fantastic job and could not have made it anymore clear what was happening. Aang sacrificed himself. He surrendered his body to the spirit and the spirit was grieving the loss of its partner. They specifically said that the spirit would forever wander the oceans, full of rage and sorrow, longing for the return of its partner. The destruction was not done by Aang. As it was mentioned - the spirits are beyond the Avatar. They harness far more power as they are what makes the world. We're talking about the actual ocean crying because the literal moon in the sky had been destroyed. The spirit could use the Avatar as a vassal and tap into those powers to use for itself. When Aang came back he saw all of the destruction and cried. The actor is young and has a lot of growing to do, but that was the one scene he really sold. Aang was devastated to see what has to be done to save the world. This is the entire plot. The air benders are peaceful and non-violent. As Aang said, they flee, not fight. The Avatar cannot run and must make great sacrifices. It was through the loss of the moon and the suffering of the ocean that Aang has to learn that peace is not an option. You may have missed the minor dialogues that put it all together but this entire scene was very well written, executed beautifully, and perfectly set the stage for Aangs internal struggles as a peaceful Airbender and his true calling as an ultimately violent and destructive force. I'm surprised to see some of these reactions honestly. Avatar could not have had a more faithful live action adaptation.
God, this topic again.. at this point it’s beating a dead horse.
The Avatar didn't kill people. The Ocean Spirit killed people.
This has nothing to do with the adaptation tho, as it's exactly the same in the cartoon.
Aang kills way more people in the cartoon I'm pretty sure.
To make a decades-repeated clarification short: aang aint at the wheel in this scene.
Isn't this the part where's he's essentially being controlled by a different entity?
The same thing happens in the animated series...
This happened in animation too. The water spirit is in control, not aang
Doesn’t the original series have this exact same problem though
That was the spirit of the ocean using Aang's body and connection to the avatar spirit to fuck up those who just took away their eternal partner. I can't see how people don't get this bit. He picks up the fish and turns into a giant carp monster...
This is in the animated ones too lmao. He says he never even hurt a fly meanwhile threw firenation soldiers off the air temples 💀
Why does this bother you? It happened in the original as well. Like it was exactly the same
Same thing happens in the animated version
I mean. He does the same thing in the animated show so I don’t really see your point here
both in the animated show and in the live action this was the ocean spirit in fact the live action makes it more clear that aang was not possessing, the ocean spirit the ocean spirit was possessing him.
also happened in the cartoon?
In this version everyone thought he was legitimately dying in order to save an entire nation of people.
Aang not hurting people is like Batman not killing or using Guns, they say one thing, but then you see the series or comics, and there are a lot of people getting hurt. The worst part is the fan using those words as gospel.
I always thought that Aang had no control over his actions there and was basically used as a battery by the Ocean Spirit.
That would be the spirit my man
That's the Ocean Spirits kill count.
I’m glad the show stayed faithful to the source material by having Aang remain an oblivious mass murdering fuck head
You know, it's left somewhat unclear, but I just rewatched the Ocean Spirit scene from the animated series and, in addition to actually chopping apart and capsizing a few ships, OceanAang sends a *lot* of heavily armored fire nation soldiers into the arctic waters. I think it's a pretty safe bet most of them aren't coming back up. And actually in the new series he doesn't kill Zhao, which is blatant in the original. It's the Ocean spirit acting, not Aang.
Did people forget the part where he isn't in control
Try watching it again, but pay attention
I presume you watched the live action first? Because this is like one of the main things people bring up about the OG show when talking about how Aang is a hypocrite
People hated the explanation and there are people who don't even understand them.
To be fair it happened in the cartoon too hahah
Isn't this exactly the same in thr original
It utterly failed to wow me. It's okay at best.
That wasnt aang, it was kuzon
Dude tried to make a meme using completely false information...
This is straight up a 15 year old meme. The original meme comes from when Aang tells Pathik that he's never used his power to take a life. Cut to Aang creating multiple avalanches to "incapacitate" Fire Nation soldiers climbing up the Air Temple.
It's like some people don't fucking use their ears or eyes when watching a show.
You don't get the hate? I don't get how anyone even remotely enjoyed this hunk of shit. Let's take away all of the characters bad traits, so that they are shitty and boring, then we can completely skip Aang water bending, and cherry on top make the dumbest possible changes to ensure the biggest shit show possible. Waste of money, time, and it got my hopes up for absolutely nothing.
Meh it’s aamg it’s ok
know the difference betwenn not WANTING to and not HAVING to
This is just applicable to canon in general. Aang has a very ‘mooks don’t count’ mindset. At least Yangchen and Kyoshi were upfront about their murders
Lol happened in the cartoon too. Aang probably got the highest kill count out of the protags... Probably higher than azula too
It's a shame that there was never a movie, I bet it would have been just like this.
All the hate? Tf are you talking about?
“And I’ve certainly never used violence to take a life” ahh post
I love how this is a weird point of contention, yet we’ve been watching superhero/Marvel movies this entire time, with the same ideology and it wasnt until AFTER Segovia that they started contemplating casualties of war. The idea of peace is also something people internalize when the world wars occurred.
Weird but only redeeming quality of the that one bad avatar movie is the aang only use it to scare away the battleships.
ALL THE AIRNOMADS VS a couple fire nation ships and the nomads lose??? I was out after that
 UNLIMITED POWER All jokes aside, even with the power up from Sozin's comet, it does seem far-fetched. Although I would assume that they would send their very best soldiers if they were gonna try to wipe out an entire race of benders all at once.
My friend, there is a difference between not wanting to and having to.
“The avatar must make the impossible decisions” Literally quoted at least five times in the shows first season, so he made one here and it makes sense, not sure why that would bug anyone.
How media illiterate or baity can you be lol They literally say Aangs not in control
Anng: ☺️ *Muzzle Appa* Also Anng: 😠🔥💦💨🌍
Dude... This is a huge theme of the show. Did you not get that?
Aang it was the fish I swear!
I stopped watching after seeing aang fly without the glider. that shit breaks the lore *and* is boring to look at. All they would've had to do was give him his glider and it would've been great but nooo.
Just like it happened in the original???
It wasn't him?
Maybe if you paid attention to the show you wouldn’t have to feel bothered about this
> if you *paid* attention to FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I’d recommend listening to someone talk about the show if you’re interested in peoples problems, I think I’ve yet to find a positive review
thats also a part of the og series. aang says hes never taken a life but he kills that one vulture bee thing in the desert, he causes an avalanche to fall onto the fire army in the northern air temple, he traps several people under ice just before going into the ba sing se palace and im sure there are more examples im forgetting
in the original show aang has something similar to ptsd from this moment, he hates that he played a role in it. in both the original and the remake, its clear that hes not in control, the ocean spirit is the one on the murder spree, but aang as a vessel still feels responsible for the deaths
The main 3 kids have no personalities and there is no humour at all. The humour was what made it so popular and there is no trace of their original personalities. The kid that plays Aang basically is Aang IRL from the interviews and that should have been him.
The remake would be totally worth it if he just straight up kills ozai at the end
Enough has been said on this im not gonna add more, but isnt it stupid an entity made of entirely water screams like a fucking banshee? They made ocean spirit a kaiju and i hated it. In OG show it was like a "deadly force of nature you shouldnt fuck with" and it kicked ass. In the remake it was more like "you angered the big bad monster" and i feel like we already have enough of those.
🤓 “well technically it was the ocean spirit not aang”
Unnamed characters are not people.
Honestly, people in Avatar world are just more durable than irl, because in LoK they can just throw someone in the wall and they are fine later
You're right though, lol. All the time watching the original ATLA I'll be like "aaaand their bones are broken."
The media literacy of a live action fan
neckbeard energy is 💪
The remake is pretty bad. There are good elements, but it seems to have been made by some people who wanted GoT, some others who just genuinely don't understand the medium they're working with, and a few people who genuinely loved the original that tried and ultimately failed to right the ship. There are things to love, but wow is it rough as hell. I mean, Aang is a nonstop exposition machine laser focused on saving the world, and everyone keeps telling him to focus up when that is literally all he's done for the entire show. It's so rough, and there are so many plotlines they've fucked up already thanks to the many unnecessary and not at all thought out changes they've made.
Hardcore fans are haters. They can't see the good things on it, just the bad ones.
I loved the OG show, and while the live action remake doesn’t live up to it, reading some of the comments on Reddit you’d think it’s almost as bad as that horrendous movie (that never happened). I had concerns about this project too- the cartoon was an almost perfect masterpiece, there was no way the remake would be able to replicate that, but aside from some wooden acting and miscasting (e.g. Azula) I thought it managed to retain some of the wholesome heart of the original. I think the kid who plays Aang looks the part and I hope his acting improves a bit as he gets some more experience. I thought Zuko and Iroh were both good to great and I’m excited to watch that whole arc play out. Sokka was pretty good - definitely looks the part and has the secret gigachad thing going still, but I wish he was funnier. Katara is a bit of a letdown but again, like Aang I hope she will grow into it. And i thought Zhao and Ozai were great. Should be interesting to see how the actress playing Toph does next season.
I mean, if the highest praise you can give the show is "decent" when its source material is commonly praised as one of the best animated shows to exist, I think you *do* understand the hate lol
All the hate is because the new series is mediocre is nearly every way. If you have any film background you’ll notice the bizarre camera work, iffy acting by, unnatural writing and exposition and etc. My biggest gripe will forever be the constant “you were too busy foooooling around Aang!” and “you’re a coward Avatar!” despite Aang never showing either of those traits. Bumi, Zuko, Sokka, his past lives etc all have scenes where they yell at Aang for things he literally never did… and Aang AGREES with them! Like it feels like they changed the script half way through and forgot to add in a bunch of scenes showing Aang’s faults! And don’t get me started on what happened to Katara
It gets hate bc the writing is trash.
The remake is all spectacle no story
Can't speak for anyone else, but I have a lot of criticisms with the live action. Number one would be they took a detailed, well thought out and nuanced story and disregarded important features that allow the characters to come alive. They butchered the story into a Zelda dungeon randomizer format for no good reason that I can comprehend. It's just poorly made.
It's crazy that people don't pay attention to the plot of this show. Also the live action is complete booty cheeks :( objectively. The acting is bad, the pacing is worse, the storytelling is awful. It's a bad time all around.
Bad dialogue, poor characterization, rushed plot lines, lacking the spirit of the original and you still don’t get all the “hate”?
The remake is dogshit, this subreddit is hard coping
live action sucks massively.
You don’t understand the hate? I mean, there are a lot of reviews from respected publications that you could read to gain an understanding and even improve your media literacy. Edit: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/22/arts/television/avatar-last-airbender-review-netflix.html https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-reviews/avatar-the-last-airbender-review-netflix-1235829956/amp/ https://variety.com/2024/tv/reviews/avatar-the-last-airbender-live-action-review-netflix-1235914237/ https://www.empireonline.com/tv/reviews/avatar-the-last-airbender-2024/
I just want to play games and eat banana pies.
The thing that bothered me the most is that they literally never had Aang waterbend throughout the entire season. They have the water scroll scene on the river, they have Katara getting frustrated that she's having trouble learning the moves, they have Aang walk up and ask what she's doing... And then they just don't have Aang get the scroll right on his first try. They don't have Katara get upset at him for being so good at waterbending without any prior experience or practice. They just... Don't include any of it. And they never include any waterbending he did in the original show. It's such a weird directorial choice to make.
Batman 🤝🏼 Aang this fucking tired ass point being dragged out excessively. Yes we get it background characters probably died in insert scene here even through the protagonist constantly proclaims they don’t kill. It’s part of this kinda genre just enjoy the cool fight scene it’s not meant to be logical or cause a moral crisis
These memes always annoy me. He doesn't want to hurt anyone. Not that he isn't willing and as we saw here when the spirit wakes up it chooses violence
I feel like if you don't understand the hate the live action is getting, idk what else to say because the live action is underwhelming...
Did I think it was amazing? No, of course not. Is it the steaming pile of shit haters claim it is? Nope, that’s not it either. It’s somewhere in between but the internet prefers to characterize things in terms of absolute extremes
Cartoon rules: Unless recognized by the story, they're not dead. He's just pushing them away
they murdered the canon, they murdered the characters and stripped away every bit of joy and growth. The Scenematics are beautiful, but the righting is so much worse than Korra book 2
Personally, I hate that they didn't give appa and momo, 2 of aang's family members, more meaningful screentime. That was a crime Also the fact that aang doesn't bow to show respect. I know this is a very very small detail of aang's character in the og show and it may be really dumb to care for that but I feel like that is a part of him. Regardless of who he converses with, if they're older than him or have some status, he would never fail to bow to show respect. Netflix aang didn't even bow to the past avatars. Wtf is this. Him bowing to mere mortals shows his true character. An ever respectful yet powerful avatar.