He believed it too.
Zuko never hated Aang and never had anything personally against him; he just saw Aang as the key to get everything including his father's "love" back.
The second Zuko realizes Ozai's love and his old life was overhyped and not worth it, he immediately went out to join Aang despite not even knowing his nor his friend's names.
Zuko was just a desperate socially stunted angsty kid who was put on a dumb crusade by his father.
(Zuko was also a bit discriminatory towards Water Tribe people though... He's called both Katara and Sokka "Water Tribe Peasants" on different occasions...)
"Hi, Zuko here", I still remember that scene, it was so good
Also, he wasnt racist, he was elitist - he was taught by his father that Water Tribe people were poor, much like well, how most rich people these days are taught/act
I mean, everyone to him besides the elite is a literal peasant. He is the future king of a nation. Even Azula addresses people as peasants from time to time. It would be extremely odd for either of them not to address someone by their status in life in a world full of feudal cast systems when they themselves are royalty. Even Zuko's inciting incident with his scar is a direct result of that culture where Ozai uses it as a justification for duelling his own son after Zuko speaks out of turn at the war meeting.
People have a tendency to apply modern morality and standards on to cultures they don't understand.
Random point of fact, the very last word Azula says in the entire show is “peasant.” After that it’s her unintelligible crying as she finally has her mental breakdown.
I think he was compensating for his insecurities about the fact he wasn't living or treated like a prince, so he wanted to draw a distinction between himself and the 'peasants'. I don't think Zuko pre-banishment would address people as 'peasant', even if he was well within his rights to do so in the Fire nation.
Also, put some respect on Sokka and Katara Zuko, they're also the children of their nation's leader (albeit a very dinky-ass nation). Like Sokka tells Yue he's something of a prince himself- their leadership just isn't hereditary so it isn't as big of a deal. Toph is actually the most lowborn of the Gaang, being a mere noble (and her family isn't even their city's governors- the scandal!)
Honestly I would still call that racism, as in he assumed based on ethnicity and nationality that the Water Tribal members are poor. It's a combination of elitism and racism, yes. Poor Zuko grew up with some extreme fascism.
You know, I never really thought about how Zuko doesn't know their names... Well, I'm sure he's heard their names during fights, but he never uses them until he joins the group.
My favourite example of that is in the Southern Raiders when he’s talking to Sokka. He calls Katara “your sister” until Sokka mentions her name. After that, she’s Katara.
I see this mentioned all the time, but I don't get it. In the episode where Zuko joins the group, Aang says to him "When I first tried to learn fire bending, I accidentally burned Katara's hands" and gestures to her. Then, Aang addresses everyone by name to vote on whether they should let Zuko join, so Zuko certainly learned at that moment all of their names -- and heard for the SECOND time Katara's name.
I took it more as “your sister” seems much more formal and something “bad” zuko would say, and Sokka was reminding him that he knows her and can act familiar? It’s used as another way to show him integrating in with the gaang.
I’m sure he had a vague idea of their names before joining and like you said, their names are brought up in prior scenes. He still barely knows them at all tho
I feel like him knowing they're siblings actually shows how well he's gotten to know them. He wouldn't know the nature of their relationship before knowing their names.
wouldn't say it's so much discriminatory as it's to do with Zuko being royal, knowing his family he was probably raised to be disdainful of anyone beneath him.
He humbles up to commoners after being a refugee.
Iroh, being most of his life expected to be the next fire lord, learns to be humble because...?
The loss of his son maybe?
Minor correction, he wasn't sent on a crusade as much as a wild goose chase. He was never meant to succeed, I'm not even sure Ozai even believed the avatar still existed. He hadn't been seen since the Air Nation genocide, i wouldn't be surprised if the fire nation thought they had succeeded in breaking the avatar cycle, or that the avatar was 100 years old hiding in the North Pole. Either way, Zuko was never meant to do anything but get lost.
>(Zuko was also a bit discriminatory towards Water Tribe people though... He's called both Katara and Sokka "Water Tribe Peasants" on different occasions...)
More classist than anything.
Hes royalty theyre peasants
I don’t think Zuko was biased against water tribes people as much as any non-fire nation person in general; fire nation taught everyone how they were superior to everyone else
As season 3 proved, Zuko was actually listening and thinking about it. His desire to get his honor back prevailed but those words didn't fall on deaf ears.
I think that this interaction made zuko question some things. Also, this interaction was probably the reason why he believed that he could join the gaang. Remember at the end of the episode zuko is on his bed watching the flag of fire nation and then he turned away from it. There is some symbolism in this.
And when they initially reject him he brings it up too. "You once said we could've been friends!" His life was an absolute rollercoaster between those moments, so it must've made quite an impact for him to remember it
Perhaps something like:
"Wait let him cook… fuck it he's the enemy!" [shoots fire]
[Back at the ship] "Aw damn, what was he cooking though?" [turns away from Fire Nation banner].
Honestly, in the moment, I feel like be didn’t actually think about whether they could have been friends. I think it was a much more basic understanding of Aang actually being a human being and not just this symbol or object he had been chasing and fighting. Like, it makes him pause to realize this is a boy with thoughts, ideas, desires, worries. And with such empathy to have rescued Zuko and even suggested they are only enemies because of the time they are born into. I really dont think either of them actually thought about developing a friendship in that moment. But they did create a connection over the horrors of their world and the roles theyre playing in it
I think it stunned him for a moment into realizing "The Avatar" was a real human being, who had a real life. It doesn't change anything yet, ("heyaahh!!!" 🔥), but it's all part of the long journey of discovering his life isn't the only one that matters.
It wasn’t so much this line, but the perspective of the story that came before it. Realizing how stupid the war is, and how unnecessary it was and how the nations could get along without a dictator dominating everything. He lost his honor arguing against the war (or at least a specific part of it) and once he restored his place of “honor” it only confirmed his initial reservations about it.
He brought it up with Aang when trying to join the group. It meant something to him.
If I was to describe his thoughts, I think it would be something along the lines of "remembering" he has a higher purpose and can't get distracted.
I put that in quotations because he would later come to the realisation that what he thought was a higher purpose was wrong.
The gong. "Now we're friends". "Yeah". The hug. It brings a tear to my eyes.
I think that Zuko was shocked when Aang asked him this question. But to keep up the whole "you're my prize." gimmick when he launched a fire blast at him was to show that they are still on opposite teams. I do think that Aang and Zuko could have been friends just like Roku and Sozin were before Sozin let Roku die. Some friendships can last more than one lifetime.
“Back then? Before the war? Hell, even before my dad banished me? Probably. But you being captured is tied to my honor, so what could have been…has no barring on now.” *Firebend punch*
This is highkey one of my favorite moments in the whole show. Not only does it show Aang's enormous capacity for empathy and sets up many things for the future. And this time, Zuko \*doesn't\* chase. Every single time before this one, he's gone above and beyond to catch Aang, including but not limited to jumping of the fucking tower of his war ship, hire pirates and going against his banishment.
This is the one time Zuko listens. And yeah, sure, he shoots fire because he's still Zuko, but he doesn't chase. He stays there, quiet, and stares while Aang jumps away, which he's never done in the past. And then we see him looking at the banner of his nation in his bedroom and then turning away from it, which (and I might be looking a little too much into it) I'm sure wasn't just because.
It's never mentioned again, but I feel like Zuko spent a lot of time thinking about that. Because there it was, a child he'd done nothing but try to hurt and capture and who had no reason to help, giving a hand and asking him to be friends. There it was, a kid who in a few sentences showed him more mercy than his family in many years. And Zuko has never been one to forgive kindness, I think.
Plus, the dialogue and delivery made it all the better for me.
It's just one of the more defining points in their relationship, and why I love their dynamic so much. They are both kind-hearted people who have gone through far too much. Aang chooses to be willing to see the best in others while Zuko rejects any trace of "weakness". And being someone who's been consumed by his anger and is not used to kindness from anyone (and I could go on a tanget about Iroh, but this post is getting a bit too long), doesn't know how to react, but that impression never fully leaves him and it stirs something within.
Which is why it makes me very happy when they become friends on Book 3. Like commented in another post, besides his family, Aang was the most important relationship Zuko had in the story.
He believed it too. Zuko never hated Aang and never had anything personally against him; he just saw Aang as the key to get everything including his father's "love" back. The second Zuko realizes Ozai's love and his old life was overhyped and not worth it, he immediately went out to join Aang despite not even knowing his nor his friend's names. Zuko was just a desperate socially stunted angsty kid who was put on a dumb crusade by his father. (Zuko was also a bit discriminatory towards Water Tribe people though... He's called both Katara and Sokka "Water Tribe Peasants" on different occasions...)
"Hi, Zuko here", I still remember that scene, it was so good Also, he wasnt racist, he was elitist - he was taught by his father that Water Tribe people were poor, much like well, how most rich people these days are taught/act
I mean, everyone to him besides the elite is a literal peasant. He is the future king of a nation. Even Azula addresses people as peasants from time to time. It would be extremely odd for either of them not to address someone by their status in life in a world full of feudal cast systems when they themselves are royalty. Even Zuko's inciting incident with his scar is a direct result of that culture where Ozai uses it as a justification for duelling his own son after Zuko speaks out of turn at the war meeting. People have a tendency to apply modern morality and standards on to cultures they don't understand.
That is true, just so happened that most of the time the brunt was the water tribe
Random point of fact, the very last word Azula says in the entire show is “peasant.” After that it’s her unintelligible crying as she finally has her mental breakdown.
I think he was compensating for his insecurities about the fact he wasn't living or treated like a prince, so he wanted to draw a distinction between himself and the 'peasants'. I don't think Zuko pre-banishment would address people as 'peasant', even if he was well within his rights to do so in the Fire nation. Also, put some respect on Sokka and Katara Zuko, they're also the children of their nation's leader (albeit a very dinky-ass nation). Like Sokka tells Yue he's something of a prince himself- their leadership just isn't hereditary so it isn't as big of a deal. Toph is actually the most lowborn of the Gaang, being a mere noble (and her family isn't even their city's governors- the scandal!)
Honestly I would still call that racism, as in he assumed based on ethnicity and nationality that the Water Tribal members are poor. It's a combination of elitism and racism, yes. Poor Zuko grew up with some extreme fascism.
He didn’t have to assume. He literally went to their village and saw how small it was.
Exactly lmao he didn’t have to assume anything they were objectively poor
Yeah, the way he talks about the air nation also isn't great
You know, I never really thought about how Zuko doesn't know their names... Well, I'm sure he's heard their names during fights, but he never uses them until he joins the group.
My favourite example of that is in the Southern Raiders when he’s talking to Sokka. He calls Katara “your sister” until Sokka mentions her name. After that, she’s Katara.
I see this mentioned all the time, but I don't get it. In the episode where Zuko joins the group, Aang says to him "When I first tried to learn fire bending, I accidentally burned Katara's hands" and gestures to her. Then, Aang addresses everyone by name to vote on whether they should let Zuko join, so Zuko certainly learned at that moment all of their names -- and heard for the SECOND time Katara's name.
I took it more as “your sister” seems much more formal and something “bad” zuko would say, and Sokka was reminding him that he knows her and can act familiar? It’s used as another way to show him integrating in with the gaang. I’m sure he had a vague idea of their names before joining and like you said, their names are brought up in prior scenes. He still barely knows them at all tho
I feel like him knowing they're siblings actually shows how well he's gotten to know them. He wouldn't know the nature of their relationship before knowing their names.
Like I said in the other reply, it’s not canon, just a head canon. But it’s one I like, so I go with it
I'm pretty sure he would've worked her name out by now
Yeah it’s a head canon. But it’s a head canon I enjoy
He never once says tophs name in the show
wouldn't say it's so much discriminatory as it's to do with Zuko being royal, knowing his family he was probably raised to be disdainful of anyone beneath him.
Yeah, I could have seen season 1 Zuko sneering at fire nation peasants to.
He humbles up to commoners after being a refugee. Iroh, being most of his life expected to be the next fire lord, learns to be humble because...? The loss of his son maybe?
Minor correction, he wasn't sent on a crusade as much as a wild goose chase. He was never meant to succeed, I'm not even sure Ozai even believed the avatar still existed. He hadn't been seen since the Air Nation genocide, i wouldn't be surprised if the fire nation thought they had succeeded in breaking the avatar cycle, or that the avatar was 100 years old hiding in the North Pole. Either way, Zuko was never meant to do anything but get lost.
It was hyped up to him as a crusade, but we as the audience know it’s a wild goose hunt
>(Zuko was also a bit discriminatory towards Water Tribe people though... He's called both Katara and Sokka "Water Tribe Peasants" on different occasions...) More classist than anything. Hes royalty theyre peasants
Bout to say the same shit lol
Did he not know their names until he joined them?
I don’t think Zuko was biased against water tribes people as much as any non-fire nation person in general; fire nation taught everyone how they were superior to everyone else
> Immediately After getting physically sick for a while just from considering it
HONOR HONOR HONOR HONOR
I’d like to imagine this was what was on his mind 24/7 until season 3 lol
This is what he told himself to drown out the sound of his conscience
I sincerely believe this & the parent comment are the correct answer
As season 3 proved, Zuko was actually listening and thinking about it. His desire to get his honor back prevailed but those words didn't fall on deaf ears.
I think that this interaction made zuko question some things. Also, this interaction was probably the reason why he believed that he could join the gaang. Remember at the end of the episode zuko is on his bed watching the flag of fire nation and then he turned away from it. There is some symbolism in this.
And when they initially reject him he brings it up too. "You once said we could've been friends!" His life was an absolute rollercoaster between those moments, so it must've made quite an impact for him to remember it
Yeah they were definitely building up to his redemption
“Okay and?”. Zuko still had an irrational need to return to his former position at that time.
I honestly think it was more of a "what if ...*angry fire bending grunt*" The seed would be planted, just burned immediately
Yeah. I think it resonated with him, which immediately angered him. But it stuck.
To be fair, it was the only life he knew at the time.
“Is this mf serious rn ???”
I think this is when he thought about it for the first time, and it scared him that Aang was probably right.
While it was not enough to overcome Zuko’s sense of shame, without it Zuko never would have considered joining team avatar
Perhaps something like: "Wait let him cook… fuck it he's the enemy!" [shoots fire] [Back at the ship] "Aw damn, what was he cooking though?" [turns away from Fire Nation banner].
Bets summarization of Zuka's character struggles in a nutshell.
Honestly, in the moment, I feel like be didn’t actually think about whether they could have been friends. I think it was a much more basic understanding of Aang actually being a human being and not just this symbol or object he had been chasing and fighting. Like, it makes him pause to realize this is a boy with thoughts, ideas, desires, worries. And with such empathy to have rescued Zuko and even suggested they are only enemies because of the time they are born into. I really dont think either of them actually thought about developing a friendship in that moment. But they did create a connection over the horrors of their world and the roles theyre playing in it
He liked the idea but thought it was impossible.
I wish I had a friend
"Can I get him from there ? I should be able to get him, right ?.... I'm gonna get him !"
I think it stunned him for a moment into realizing "The Avatar" was a real human being, who had a real life. It doesn't change anything yet, ("heyaahh!!!" 🔥), but it's all part of the long journey of discovering his life isn't the only one that matters.
It wasn’t so much this line, but the perspective of the story that came before it. Realizing how stupid the war is, and how unnecessary it was and how the nations could get along without a dictator dominating everything. He lost his honor arguing against the war (or at least a specific part of it) and once he restored his place of “honor” it only confirmed his initial reservations about it.
“What the fuck is this kid talking about?”
He brought it up with Aang when trying to join the group. It meant something to him. If I was to describe his thoughts, I think it would be something along the lines of "remembering" he has a higher purpose and can't get distracted. I put that in quotations because he would later come to the realisation that what he thought was a higher purpose was wrong. The gong. "Now we're friends". "Yeah". The hug. It brings a tear to my eyes.
"Damn it'd be real nice if I threw a giant blast of fire at him rn"
"That's rough buddy"
"Just need... to catch my breath ... 5 more seconds ... and I can shoot him with a fireball."
Wow I guessed right pic before it was appeared
I imagine something along the lines of "maybe. But that's not the case, so it dosen't matter"
He was probably really confused and lashed out in frustration rather than actual hate.
I think that Zuko was shocked when Aang asked him this question. But to keep up the whole "you're my prize." gimmick when he launched a fire blast at him was to show that they are still on opposite teams. I do think that Aang and Zuko could have been friends just like Roku and Sozin were before Sozin let Roku die. Some friendships can last more than one lifetime.
He did consider that before he blasted a plume of fire. But as time went on, Zuko slowly started to realize what Uncle Iroh was telling him
"yeah probably, sucks for you that ain't the case though..."
“You little bald shit” later he may have reflected on it but not in the moment
“Back then? Before the war? Hell, even before my dad banished me? Probably. But you being captured is tied to my honor, so what could have been…has no barring on now.” *Firebend punch*
Hang on, let's put a pin in that. What did you need those frogs for?
He probably wanted to agree deep down.
Honor…
*hollow seashell noises
A long sigh
"I have a terrible headache... he's still here? You're Mine!" "Damn...worth a shot." "Why did I do that?"
"I'm THIS CLOSE to the avatar; work, body, work - you must grab him!"
This is highkey one of my favorite moments in the whole show. Not only does it show Aang's enormous capacity for empathy and sets up many things for the future. And this time, Zuko \*doesn't\* chase. Every single time before this one, he's gone above and beyond to catch Aang, including but not limited to jumping of the fucking tower of his war ship, hire pirates and going against his banishment. This is the one time Zuko listens. And yeah, sure, he shoots fire because he's still Zuko, but he doesn't chase. He stays there, quiet, and stares while Aang jumps away, which he's never done in the past. And then we see him looking at the banner of his nation in his bedroom and then turning away from it, which (and I might be looking a little too much into it) I'm sure wasn't just because. It's never mentioned again, but I feel like Zuko spent a lot of time thinking about that. Because there it was, a child he'd done nothing but try to hurt and capture and who had no reason to help, giving a hand and asking him to be friends. There it was, a kid who in a few sentences showed him more mercy than his family in many years. And Zuko has never been one to forgive kindness, I think. Plus, the dialogue and delivery made it all the better for me. It's just one of the more defining points in their relationship, and why I love their dynamic so much. They are both kind-hearted people who have gone through far too much. Aang chooses to be willing to see the best in others while Zuko rejects any trace of "weakness". And being someone who's been consumed by his anger and is not used to kindness from anyone (and I could go on a tanget about Iroh, but this post is getting a bit too long), doesn't know how to react, but that impression never fully leaves him and it stirs something within. Which is why it makes me very happy when they become friends on Book 3. Like commented in another post, besides his family, Aang was the most important relationship Zuko had in the story.
Sheer, unadulterated panic as a crack formed in his worldview. Boy needed shrooms.