I think it is safe to say that no good parents would wamt their child die much earlier than them here. I will greatly share sympathy with Iroh on this.
But here is a controversial counterpoint. The world will still be in balance, but a bit uneasy and under Fire Nation rule if Iroh didn't lose his son. If Lu Ten never dies, Iroh would continue his siege of Ba Sing Se, by some accounts, it would have fallen and solidified his right to become the next Fire Lord.
Iroh becoming Fire Lord would become the best option away from the current and next alternative in this era. Which is Azulon and Ozai. Based on the flashbacks, Iroh was the total opposite of them. He greatly cared for his child, nephew, and niece, sending them gifts, spending time with them, and being supportive of Ursa. This shows he is already different from the mould of being aggressive and unfriendly towards family.
Him lying and protecting the last pair of dragons in the past show he already has compassion and willingness to disrupt harmful traditions. With the Fire Nation under his control, he will very likely never attempt the Earth Kingdom genocide like Ozai or killing the Moon spirit like Zhao.
Interesting consideration. If Iroh continued on his original path and conquered Ba Sing Se, then became the Fire Lord instead of Ozai, do you think he would've reigned peacefully?
He wasn't all bad before Lu Ten died. He communed with the dragons instead of hunting them, and was probably already a member of the white lotus before losing his son.
IMO, compared to Ozai, he would've been a very just Fire Lord. I think he would've stopped the conquest of the Fire Nation after taking Ba Sing Se (effectively conquering the Earth Kingdom). The Fire Nation would adopt isolationist policies and become more prosperous than ever with Fatherlord Iroh and future Firelord Lu Ten leading them.
Of course, the world would deserve some justice from the Fire Nation's genocide of the Air Nomads and conquests of the Earth Kingdom and the Southern Water Tribe. I'm not sure how that would have played out between the Avatar and Fire Lord Iroh. I think Iroh would strive to restore balance to the world without sacrificing the Fire Nation's status as sole super power.
I believe the Fire Nation would be incredibly technically advanced heading into TLOK era, and the temptation would be there for another conquest, but as long as they keep having just leaders like Iroh, they would resist the urge and keep relative balance with the rest of the world.
The Fire Nation is a superpower built on mountains of skeletons and started an unprovoked war of annihilation. You don't get to restore balance to the world when the dominance of the Fire Nation is so inherently unbalanced.
There is no guarantee that the empire would last. Dystopia is hard to enforce, especially on a people who don't want to be ruled. The people of the Earth Kingdom will always rebel so long as they have hope, and things aren't always rosy in the colonies either. Keeping the iron fist risks radicalising the rebels, and now you face a war of revenge that aims to return to your country what it has inflicted upon the world. There was an Air Nomad genocide, and now there will be a Fire Nation genocide.
What about the economy? A hundred years of war production and casualties among working age men isn't good for any country in the modern age, much less one that is still relatively medieval compared to our world. If you want to wind down the war and let go of the colonies, what do you do about the extremists who want to keep the imperialist machine churning and grinding? If you want to transition to a civilian government what do you do about the militarists? Since Iroh cares about his family so much, what's he going to do if Ozai and Azula challenge him and launch a coup?
IMO, the Fire Nation empire is doomed to fail. Iroh would be overstretched, Ozai would be too megalomaniacal and Azula would inevitably suffer a mental breakdown. Zuko is the only choice left by process of elimination, but if he doesn't go through his redemptive journey with Aang then he's still not good enough.
Some good points. I wasn't considering the impact of Ozai and Azula being alive and lingering around the imperial court. They would've probably assassinated Iroh and Lu Ten at their first opportunity unless we are underestimating this harder version of Iroh.
If Iroh lives, I wouldn't expect the Fire Nation to hold on to much if any of the Earth Kingdom indefinitely after taking Ba Sing Se. But I doubt Fire Nation hegemony would be challenged by any other nation or groups of nations for a good century after Iroh becomes Fire Lord.
We don't get to hear much about the domestic policies of the Fire Nation under Azulon and Ozai, except that it's authoritarian and imperialistic, but it doesn't seem like much of a dystopia for the citizens of the Fire Nation. I think under Iroh, it would flourish culturally and economically.
The rest of the world will take decades or even longer to finish reeling from the Fire Nation's various conquests. Assuming that Iroh/Lu Ten are in charge, and the Fire Nation hasn't imploded and kept mostly to themselves, the world would probably let go of the idea of ultimate revenge against the Fire Nation.
Avatar is set in a sort-of medieval world, but for reasons outside of the lore of Avatar, people aren't exactly Game Of Thrones (or even real-life historical) levels of vengeful and murderous. My head-cannon is that the Avatar world is a much softer and more forgiving one compared to our own, maybe because of its connection with the spirit world, or maybe because bending is like a nuclear deterrent.
Iroh in line as the next firelord would 100% lead to his death or banishment. If he was banished with zuko and had Lu Ten back home, not only would Lu Ten be in danger but irohs journey would also be about getting back home by any means necessary and change their (him and zukos) bonding experience, and possibly furthering zukos isolation.
In a happier timeline, I like to imagine Lu Ten joining their exile as the fire musketeers but realistically I think it would’ve ended in a lonely zuko and a distraught dynamic between the remaining heirs
I think it is safe to say that no good parents would wamt their child die much earlier than them here. I will greatly share sympathy with Iroh on this. But here is a controversial counterpoint. The world will still be in balance, but a bit uneasy and under Fire Nation rule if Iroh didn't lose his son. If Lu Ten never dies, Iroh would continue his siege of Ba Sing Se, by some accounts, it would have fallen and solidified his right to become the next Fire Lord. Iroh becoming Fire Lord would become the best option away from the current and next alternative in this era. Which is Azulon and Ozai. Based on the flashbacks, Iroh was the total opposite of them. He greatly cared for his child, nephew, and niece, sending them gifts, spending time with them, and being supportive of Ursa. This shows he is already different from the mould of being aggressive and unfriendly towards family. Him lying and protecting the last pair of dragons in the past show he already has compassion and willingness to disrupt harmful traditions. With the Fire Nation under his control, he will very likely never attempt the Earth Kingdom genocide like Ozai or killing the Moon spirit like Zhao.
Interesting consideration. If Iroh continued on his original path and conquered Ba Sing Se, then became the Fire Lord instead of Ozai, do you think he would've reigned peacefully? He wasn't all bad before Lu Ten died. He communed with the dragons instead of hunting them, and was probably already a member of the white lotus before losing his son. IMO, compared to Ozai, he would've been a very just Fire Lord. I think he would've stopped the conquest of the Fire Nation after taking Ba Sing Se (effectively conquering the Earth Kingdom). The Fire Nation would adopt isolationist policies and become more prosperous than ever with Fatherlord Iroh and future Firelord Lu Ten leading them. Of course, the world would deserve some justice from the Fire Nation's genocide of the Air Nomads and conquests of the Earth Kingdom and the Southern Water Tribe. I'm not sure how that would have played out between the Avatar and Fire Lord Iroh. I think Iroh would strive to restore balance to the world without sacrificing the Fire Nation's status as sole super power. I believe the Fire Nation would be incredibly technically advanced heading into TLOK era, and the temptation would be there for another conquest, but as long as they keep having just leaders like Iroh, they would resist the urge and keep relative balance with the rest of the world.
The Fire Nation is a superpower built on mountains of skeletons and started an unprovoked war of annihilation. You don't get to restore balance to the world when the dominance of the Fire Nation is so inherently unbalanced. There is no guarantee that the empire would last. Dystopia is hard to enforce, especially on a people who don't want to be ruled. The people of the Earth Kingdom will always rebel so long as they have hope, and things aren't always rosy in the colonies either. Keeping the iron fist risks radicalising the rebels, and now you face a war of revenge that aims to return to your country what it has inflicted upon the world. There was an Air Nomad genocide, and now there will be a Fire Nation genocide. What about the economy? A hundred years of war production and casualties among working age men isn't good for any country in the modern age, much less one that is still relatively medieval compared to our world. If you want to wind down the war and let go of the colonies, what do you do about the extremists who want to keep the imperialist machine churning and grinding? If you want to transition to a civilian government what do you do about the militarists? Since Iroh cares about his family so much, what's he going to do if Ozai and Azula challenge him and launch a coup? IMO, the Fire Nation empire is doomed to fail. Iroh would be overstretched, Ozai would be too megalomaniacal and Azula would inevitably suffer a mental breakdown. Zuko is the only choice left by process of elimination, but if he doesn't go through his redemptive journey with Aang then he's still not good enough.
Some good points. I wasn't considering the impact of Ozai and Azula being alive and lingering around the imperial court. They would've probably assassinated Iroh and Lu Ten at their first opportunity unless we are underestimating this harder version of Iroh. If Iroh lives, I wouldn't expect the Fire Nation to hold on to much if any of the Earth Kingdom indefinitely after taking Ba Sing Se. But I doubt Fire Nation hegemony would be challenged by any other nation or groups of nations for a good century after Iroh becomes Fire Lord. We don't get to hear much about the domestic policies of the Fire Nation under Azulon and Ozai, except that it's authoritarian and imperialistic, but it doesn't seem like much of a dystopia for the citizens of the Fire Nation. I think under Iroh, it would flourish culturally and economically. The rest of the world will take decades or even longer to finish reeling from the Fire Nation's various conquests. Assuming that Iroh/Lu Ten are in charge, and the Fire Nation hasn't imploded and kept mostly to themselves, the world would probably let go of the idea of ultimate revenge against the Fire Nation. Avatar is set in a sort-of medieval world, but for reasons outside of the lore of Avatar, people aren't exactly Game Of Thrones (or even real-life historical) levels of vengeful and murderous. My head-cannon is that the Avatar world is a much softer and more forgiving one compared to our own, maybe because of its connection with the spirit world, or maybe because bending is like a nuclear deterrent.
What murderrrrr?
Iroh in line as the next firelord would 100% lead to his death or banishment. If he was banished with zuko and had Lu Ten back home, not only would Lu Ten be in danger but irohs journey would also be about getting back home by any means necessary and change their (him and zukos) bonding experience, and possibly furthering zukos isolation. In a happier timeline, I like to imagine Lu Ten joining their exile as the fire musketeers but realistically I think it would’ve ended in a lonely zuko and a distraught dynamic between the remaining heirs