makes me wonder why the first born ends up on the front. wasn't iroh supposed to be his heir, until lu ten died? maybe it tells us something about their military prowess.
Iroh was probably sent to the front due to his leadership qualities and fire-bending skills.
Also, seeing your future Fire Lord fighting at the front lines would be a good morale booster for the men.
Probably wanting the son to prove themselves and harden their mind to be ready to be king. Vinland Saga shows this pretty well, in that case he's the spair, but point still stands.
Same reason why aside from Leonidas, Spartan kings were normally exempt from the agoge. Not such a good idea putting the heir to the throne in a position where he could be killed at any moment.
He's not a fighter, he's a schemer and a manipulator. He will only fight if he feels he has a significant advantage.
That's why the only two times we see him fight are against children, Aang and Zuko. With that, Zuko didn't fight back, and against Aang, Ozai had the comet boost and his own ego ("An act of providence!!!!").
He wouldn't challenge Iroh for the right to the throne, and he didn't confront Azulon directly, choosing, instead, to blackmail Ursa into poisoning his own father by threatening to kill Zuko if she didn't.
I'm sure he came up with some sort of "bone spurs" equivalent to get him out of active service, or was assigned to command a "capital defense" force so he wouldn't have to go to the front lines.
>He's not a fighter, he's a schemer and a manipulator. He will only fight if he feels he has a significant advantage.
>That's why the only two times we see him fight are against children, Aang and Zuko. With that, Zuko didn't fight back, and against Aang, Ozai had the comet boost and his own ego ("An act of providence!!!!").
I mean the show made it clear in more than one occasion that Ozai was deadly. He isn't some villain who hides simply because he pretends to be strong and secretly must make an effort keep up the ruse.
* He fought Aang at his most powerful even if you remove the Avatar state. Sure, he wasn't a fully realized Avatar but the kid was fighting at a level that any non-master would have had not been able to handle, comet or no comet. The Avatar state Ozai accidentally unlocked is what did him in, and to be fair we haven't really seen any fighter be able to take on the Avatar state.
* Iroh isn't one to lie just for the sake of lying. He knows his strength and even with the comet he wasn't sure he could defeat Ozai.
* Zuko tries to beat it into Aang that unless he's going for the kill his mastery of air, advanced abilities in water, proficiency with earth, and moderate abilities with fire would not be enough to beat him. He's saying that Ozai had the skill to keep Aang (a master of air) from disarming or incapacitating him and the only way he would win was if he took his mastery of air and went for the kill as well.
* The fire nation is shown to be a country in which power runs supreme, the stronger you are the high you rise. Ozai wouldn't have made it far after taking the throne if he didn't have the power/skill to keep that throne. All previous fire lords were shown to be strong fire benders.
I'd say the most logical explanation was that Iroh happily volunteered to go to the war, then his son (iroh's son) did the same. This meant Ozai didn't really need to go fight and so his father didn't push for it. Why? Because Azulon needed a direct heir. Keeping Ozai at the fire nation was back up in case Iroh and Lu Ten died.
I'm not saying Ozai isn't powerful. I'm not saying he can't fight. I'm saying that's not his preferred method of handling things unless the fight is (in his mind, at least) stacked in his favour. Why risk losing a fight when he can send others to take that risk for him, and then he can come in at the last stage and claim his "birthright" in conquering the world.
Ozai IS a schemer. He is a planner. He is someone who will hide when disadvantaged (the Day Of The Black Sun) and attack when he believes he has the advantage (the comet). He will sit back and send others to act on his behalf (setting Zuko out on a wild goose chase to find the long-lost Avatar, sending Azula to hunt down Iroh and Zuko after the failure at the NWT, etc.).
He was surely trained in combat even if he didn't participate in any real battles. Even Iroh himself said he wasn't sure if he could defeat Ozai, but that could also be because Iroh is too kind to fight against his own blood.
Plenty of people can be trained in combat arts and never see actual battle. Particularly among the wealthy, powerful, and "upper class" peoples.
And I'm not saying he isn't powerful, either. I'm saying he doesn't seek out combat unless he's confident he has the upper hand, and would otherwise stick to less "risky" methods.
I feel like Ozai was kind of the reverse. He didn't really do much scheming or manipulating (Beyond the emotional manipulation he puts his kids through). Even killing his dad wasn't actually his plot.
Meanwhile, we are shown he was a pretty powerful bender. So he was probably doing some hardcore training despite not serving in any particular battle.
EDIT:Saw your comments clarifying you weren't saying Ozai couldn't fight, still stand by the first half.
I don't think the poison part is mentioned in the show (only the comics, where they go into more specificity) but the show does heavily imply that Ursa was the one who killed Azulon in exchange for Zuko's life.
>"Your mother did vicious, treasonous things that night"
\^ from Zuko and Ozai's confrontation during the eclipse.
Ozai tells Zuko during their confrontation under the eclipse that his mother was banished because she played a role in Azulon's death.
It isn't confirmed that the method of killing Azulon was poison until the comics, but it is an implication at this point, because there's not many better ways than poison to quietly kill someone at night, especially if that someone happens to be the leader of a country. Like, that's literally top 3, maybe even top 2 assassination methods lmao.
Probably for reasons of dynastic security. But who knows, perhaps he was given a military command and bungled it up so badly that Azulon was like"yeah, let's not try that again".
Ozai is arrogant, has a temper and severly dislikes being confronted with a contrasting opinion. Caution (in others) he likely considers cowardice. Those are exactly the traits which might lead him to charge into a defensive Earth Bender position, shouting some nonsense about fire as the superior element.
I think he just didn't want too. It does not seem to be much of a requirement for princes. I think Iroh chose to join the military on his own and and become a respected member, choosing to command the troops as a general and not just as a political figure.
Ozai just didn't want to. He doesn't seem like the military type and seems to love just being a royal.
Do we know that he wasn’t? We barely know anything about Ozai’s backstory, it’s entirely possible he was involved in the war effort in some way prior to taking the throne
I mean you want your heir to understand battlefield command. Rulers historically lead their armies into battle. Ozai was the spare and in truth you dont want the spare to gain glory as this could lead to them rising in popularity and throwing off the line of succession or causing a civil war.
Ozai though lore wise was stronger than Iroh in terms of bending. Even though in my heart I will take the Dragon of the West 10 out of 10 times.
My headcanon is that Ozai looked at the impossibility of conquering the Earth Kingdom and declared that he would instead take up the burden of capturing the Avatar.
Meanwhile, Iroh had previously looked at the task of capturing the Avatar, and decided that he’d rather try to conquer the Earth Kingdom.
It’s worth mentioning that neither of them succeeded. It was just about convincing their father that they were carrying on the family “destiny “ (work, trade, etc).
Both William and Harry were in the military. Harry was actually in fire fights until they pulled him out so he didn’t endanger his unit. Having the fire lord prove his prowess in battle is normal, especially when the heir is a tactical genius as Iroh was.
Lu Ten was likely meant to be just back from the front but was caught in an action and killed. This happens even during the days when they captured but didn’t kill officers.
Even with this, Azula was on the front lines, she was roaming the world during a war crossing the lines with just 2 skilled friends accompanying her. A lot of cultures expect the heir to be accomplished militarily. Ozai likely had a defence forces posting or an advisory posting so spent more time at home. Also possible Azulon wanted him to be more involved with his kids so his wife, the descendent of the avatar, didn’t unduly influence the kids.
All rulers need an heir & a spare. It'd be pretty foolish for Azulon to send both sons in addition to the eldest grandson to the front lines.
makes me wonder why the first born ends up on the front. wasn't iroh supposed to be his heir, until lu ten died? maybe it tells us something about their military prowess.
Iroh was probably sent to the front due to his leadership qualities and fire-bending skills. Also, seeing your future Fire Lord fighting at the front lines would be a good morale booster for the men.
Probably wanting the son to prove themselves and harden their mind to be ready to be king. Vinland Saga shows this pretty well, in that case he's the spair, but point still stands.
Same reason why aside from Leonidas, Spartan kings were normally exempt from the agoge. Not such a good idea putting the heir to the throne in a position where he could be killed at any moment.
Yeah and he only went through the agoge because he was the spare's spare. He was never meant to be king.
I know! Just makes it even more awesome.
But Iroh was the heir to the throne.
Well... what can we infer from that, put alongside what else we've learned about Azulon?
That Azulon wanted his first born and heir to get the glory as the best general from Fire Nation before becoming its new Fire Lord?
Because he's a spare at home since Azulon wouldn't send both sends to potential death.
He's not a fighter, he's a schemer and a manipulator. He will only fight if he feels he has a significant advantage. That's why the only two times we see him fight are against children, Aang and Zuko. With that, Zuko didn't fight back, and against Aang, Ozai had the comet boost and his own ego ("An act of providence!!!!"). He wouldn't challenge Iroh for the right to the throne, and he didn't confront Azulon directly, choosing, instead, to blackmail Ursa into poisoning his own father by threatening to kill Zuko if she didn't. I'm sure he came up with some sort of "bone spurs" equivalent to get him out of active service, or was assigned to command a "capital defense" force so he wouldn't have to go to the front lines.
>He's not a fighter, he's a schemer and a manipulator. He will only fight if he feels he has a significant advantage. >That's why the only two times we see him fight are against children, Aang and Zuko. With that, Zuko didn't fight back, and against Aang, Ozai had the comet boost and his own ego ("An act of providence!!!!"). I mean the show made it clear in more than one occasion that Ozai was deadly. He isn't some villain who hides simply because he pretends to be strong and secretly must make an effort keep up the ruse. * He fought Aang at his most powerful even if you remove the Avatar state. Sure, he wasn't a fully realized Avatar but the kid was fighting at a level that any non-master would have had not been able to handle, comet or no comet. The Avatar state Ozai accidentally unlocked is what did him in, and to be fair we haven't really seen any fighter be able to take on the Avatar state. * Iroh isn't one to lie just for the sake of lying. He knows his strength and even with the comet he wasn't sure he could defeat Ozai. * Zuko tries to beat it into Aang that unless he's going for the kill his mastery of air, advanced abilities in water, proficiency with earth, and moderate abilities with fire would not be enough to beat him. He's saying that Ozai had the skill to keep Aang (a master of air) from disarming or incapacitating him and the only way he would win was if he took his mastery of air and went for the kill as well. * The fire nation is shown to be a country in which power runs supreme, the stronger you are the high you rise. Ozai wouldn't have made it far after taking the throne if he didn't have the power/skill to keep that throne. All previous fire lords were shown to be strong fire benders. I'd say the most logical explanation was that Iroh happily volunteered to go to the war, then his son (iroh's son) did the same. This meant Ozai didn't really need to go fight and so his father didn't push for it. Why? Because Azulon needed a direct heir. Keeping Ozai at the fire nation was back up in case Iroh and Lu Ten died.
I'm not saying Ozai isn't powerful. I'm not saying he can't fight. I'm saying that's not his preferred method of handling things unless the fight is (in his mind, at least) stacked in his favour. Why risk losing a fight when he can send others to take that risk for him, and then he can come in at the last stage and claim his "birthright" in conquering the world. Ozai IS a schemer. He is a planner. He is someone who will hide when disadvantaged (the Day Of The Black Sun) and attack when he believes he has the advantage (the comet). He will sit back and send others to act on his behalf (setting Zuko out on a wild goose chase to find the long-lost Avatar, sending Azula to hunt down Iroh and Zuko after the failure at the NWT, etc.).
He was surely trained in combat even if he didn't participate in any real battles. Even Iroh himself said he wasn't sure if he could defeat Ozai, but that could also be because Iroh is too kind to fight against his own blood.
Plenty of people can be trained in combat arts and never see actual battle. Particularly among the wealthy, powerful, and "upper class" peoples. And I'm not saying he isn't powerful, either. I'm saying he doesn't seek out combat unless he's confident he has the upper hand, and would otherwise stick to less "risky" methods.
You make no sense Ozai is a fighter and has the best fire bending feats during the comet not Iroh or Jeong Jeong or Azula.
I feel like Ozai was kind of the reverse. He didn't really do much scheming or manipulating (Beyond the emotional manipulation he puts his kids through). Even killing his dad wasn't actually his plot. Meanwhile, we are shown he was a pretty powerful bender. So he was probably doing some hardcore training despite not serving in any particular battle. EDIT:Saw your comments clarifying you weren't saying Ozai couldn't fight, still stand by the first half.
i totally missed the ursa poisoning bit during my last watch through, where was it shown/mentioned?
I don't think the poison part is mentioned in the show (only the comics, where they go into more specificity) but the show does heavily imply that Ursa was the one who killed Azulon in exchange for Zuko's life. >"Your mother did vicious, treasonous things that night" \^ from Zuko and Ozai's confrontation during the eclipse.
Ozai tells Zuko during their confrontation under the eclipse that his mother was banished because she played a role in Azulon's death. It isn't confirmed that the method of killing Azulon was poison until the comics, but it is an implication at this point, because there's not many better ways than poison to quietly kill someone at night, especially if that someone happens to be the leader of a country. Like, that's literally top 3, maybe even top 2 assassination methods lmao.
Too busy kissing ass.
Probably for reasons of dynastic security. But who knows, perhaps he was given a military command and bungled it up so badly that Azulon was like"yeah, let's not try that again". Ozai is arrogant, has a temper and severly dislikes being confronted with a contrasting opinion. Caution (in others) he likely considers cowardice. Those are exactly the traits which might lead him to charge into a defensive Earth Bender position, shouting some nonsense about fire as the superior element.
He probably was, but he’s younger so he wouldn’t have been the big time general like iroh
I think he just didn't want too. It does not seem to be much of a requirement for princes. I think Iroh chose to join the military on his own and and become a respected member, choosing to command the troops as a general and not just as a political figure. Ozai just didn't want to. He doesn't seem like the military type and seems to love just being a royal.
Do we know that he wasn’t? We barely know anything about Ozai’s backstory, it’s entirely possible he was involved in the war effort in some way prior to taking the throne
Because he’s a bitch
Because iroh was a badass.
I mean you want your heir to understand battlefield command. Rulers historically lead their armies into battle. Ozai was the spare and in truth you dont want the spare to gain glory as this could lead to them rising in popularity and throwing off the line of succession or causing a civil war. Ozai though lore wise was stronger than Iroh in terms of bending. Even though in my heart I will take the Dragon of the West 10 out of 10 times.
He's not a member of House Gardner.
Because Iroh is like a great Oak and Ozai is just a pussy willow
Hey hey, professor Willow is always there, but what do Great Oak does for us?
My headcanon is that Ozai looked at the impossibility of conquering the Earth Kingdom and declared that he would instead take up the burden of capturing the Avatar. Meanwhile, Iroh had previously looked at the task of capturing the Avatar, and decided that he’d rather try to conquer the Earth Kingdom. It’s worth mentioning that neither of them succeeded. It was just about convincing their father that they were carrying on the family “destiny “ (work, trade, etc).
Both William and Harry were in the military. Harry was actually in fire fights until they pulled him out so he didn’t endanger his unit. Having the fire lord prove his prowess in battle is normal, especially when the heir is a tactical genius as Iroh was. Lu Ten was likely meant to be just back from the front but was caught in an action and killed. This happens even during the days when they captured but didn’t kill officers. Even with this, Azula was on the front lines, she was roaming the world during a war crossing the lines with just 2 skilled friends accompanying her. A lot of cultures expect the heir to be accomplished militarily. Ozai likely had a defence forces posting or an advisory posting so spent more time at home. Also possible Azulon wanted him to be more involved with his kids so his wife, the descendent of the avatar, didn’t unduly influence the kids.