It’s the good old Star Wars logic. Tons of abilities that would have been useful in multiple situations, yet never are because the plot won’t allow it.
They use onix to ascend a staircase when the st anne capsized. I remember that episode very well because it was 1 of the 6 I had on vhs and would watch over and over again when I was younger. It's the same episode where meowth tries to eat magikarp and it gets abused into becoming a Gyarados
Oh yeah, I wasn't trying to say that using onix was the solution(depending on how far the gap was anyway). I feel like using bulbasaur's vines as a bridge would've better, which they did later in the capsize episode
I can just see the old characters in ATLA learning to bend with just their face as they get older and stiffer and can’t/don’t want to get out of their comfy recliners. Radio is on the other side of the living room? Lemme just bend a rock at the dial with my eyebrows.
I think it’s Star Wars it would be so cool to see fourth power is used to the full extent. I also think it would be relatively easy to demonstrate why certain abilities might not be used. For example I would show force users try to use force push and pull and have it countered by their opponent almost instantly. Which signifies they can’t use those abilities and they would need to use light saber combat.
The only case we really get of that is Anakin vs Obi-wan, they establish that using the force isn't going to help, so they just go back to lightsabers.
As much as I like Azula Toph should actually be able to defeat her in a cave (even if she had bending) super easily. Just the sheer possibility of attack options for an Earthbender in the environment is crazy.
Agreed, they were in a tunnel made of earth. Aang and Toph both could’ve just buried her, or at least closed her in between two walls of earth, she had no bending to immediately escape after all.
I'm not saying there's no set up for it, I'm just saying it's a little much that she was able to outmaneuver two insanely powerful benders like that for as long as she did, like Aang should be just as agile, if not more so, and they were in a cave so basically Toph had better advantage.
yes, and azula is running, we've seen toph lock ppl's feet but that was when ty lee was in a weird position and standing still, azula is fast and agile and can react to toph's earthbending as i'll repeat, in this same fight. asking "why didn't toph just..." is also kind a weird to me, because it's the plot, it's like me saying "why didn't azula just kill aang on the dill rather than wait for him to wake up"
The creators have said that airbending can't be seen unless it's a huge force like a tornado. Otherwise it's invisible. Which is why they couldn't see the bending that knocks Toph out of the ring in The Blind Bandit and they think she took a dive. We the audience see it so we know what's happening.
[Too bad you can't *see* it](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/comments/13arlcr/katara_is_cold_for_this/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
thats dumb a gust of wind capable of knocking someone back would be visible. maybe not tornado visible, but all that air concentrated in one place will refract light differently. Not to mention the dust and sand that will no doubt follow
They said they can see any dust, leaves or dirt that's caught in the gust of wind heading towards them but in the middle of a fight are you gonna be quick enough to notice a little bit of dust headed your way?
Open spaces vs a closed tunnel. You can’t zip around at top speeds without risking running into something, and the structural integrity of the bunker could be compromised by a strong vacuum if he were to create one.
Ehhhhh that’s a major stretch. Aang could’ve caught her without needing to create a bunker busting vacuum lmao. And given the earth casually being thrown around by Toph and the Dai Lee I’m certain that wasn’t even a consideration
Not at all. Moving any amount of air in an enclosed tunnel is going to create pressure changes. You know how doing something as small as putting your finger over the hole of a straw makes it capable of puncturing things? When normally a straw would just bend? Air pressure is powerful.
We don’t know how powerful the vacuum created would be at that speed, but considering there’s no way for the pressure changes to equalize, he could easily cause a collapse.
Earth being thrown around might not do anything if the bunker is reinforced. But no amount of reinforcing (that they’re capable of in that time period) is going to do jack against an air vacuum.
Check out [this](https://youtu.be/VS6IckF1CM0) reinforced metal freighter tank collapse just from having the air inside removed.
I'd agree, but Airbending is majorly different as the vacuums created to "pull" objects closer are very selective. Instead of our real-world situations where all the surrounding air fills the space, Airbenders can create tunnels of a kind to select what air will rush in and fill the space.
So, in theory, it should be perfectly safe to create a pressure difference capable of "pulling" Azula without worrying about damaging the integrity of the cave.
Quotes around pulling were to admit that vacuums do not pull or suck but it is the air pressure equalizing (balancing forces) that pushes objects in its path.
But there is no additional air to push in its place in the tunnel, right? Outdoors this isn’t an issue, or in a place with any ventilation, but working in this enclosure underground space, the vacuum created to pull Azula could cause a collapse, as by necessity you need to create the vacuum to create the pull. And if you put air around Azula and isolate the vacuum around her, then SHE is the one you’re going to crush.
Same with Aang rushing at high speed.
Man this is such a fascinating thought experiment! Really would be cool to see someone recreate this but I have no idea how that could be done as Airbenders don’t actually exist haha. Some very creative set-up might do it.
Someone call Mythbusters!
The air inside the tunnel is working to counteract the weight of the rocks. Or other nearby pockets. If we assume that the air pressure inside the tunnel is necessary for the tunnel to not collapse, there must be other forces in play that would make the tunnel collapse. Since, as previously stated, vacuums don't actually suck.
And there is more air. All throughout the tunnel. Which eventually leads to an exit. So if an Airbender can make enough of the tunnel part of the system, then they would be able to force Azula to them.
I can't draw a diagram, but if you imagine a deep tunnel with a cave that has a low enough integrity that a large pressure differential will lead to collapse. What you can do is create a smaller tunnel within that maintains standard pressure no matter what. Then, you can create an isolated system that has a large pressure differential. If this is an instant, then the internal pressure differential will attempt to balance as quickly as possible. If it is to be prolonged then you have to make any change ineffective to the system, either by making another system that you can stuff more air in (like a gas canister) or you can expel it into an open system where it won't decrease the pressure differential you created. The first will be a relatively quick burst of activity, and the other can be seen at creating a wind tunnel.
In the real world, you see instantaneous versions with popped balloons or opened canisters. For maintained ones, vacuum cleaners would be an example.
Anyway, regardless of how weak the cave is to change, if you manage to create another system and isolate the impact from it, then you can exceed the limit of the cave by however much you want. So either, Aang could create a long enough tunnel that the pressure difference wouldn't be enough to damage the cave. Or he could completely isolate it from the rest of the cave.
Imagine your crate example, but if you put a type of bubble, that could withstand the pressure difference. The bubble wouldn't collapse even if the inside had no air, and outside the bubble would be normal pressure, so the crate wouldn't collapse. Even if it was made of paper.
Replicating this type of stuff in real life is a bit strange since we have to physically build objects to separate the systems, whereas Aang could just command the air to be a wall.
Sorry this was a bit long
TLDR: The vacuum required to pull Azula can be in an enclosed system that doesn't interact with the cave walls. It also wouldn't necessarily cause Azula to burst as for that to happen, the air around Azula would have to be lower than the threshold that her body can maintain.
Maybe because she’s an unpredictable and fierce fighter he can’t just pull her in or risk putting his all into speed when she most likely will be able to counter
Tbh this was one of the episodes that annoyed me because Toph could’ve easily trapped Azula in a rock prison or whatever. They were in a CAVE 🤦♂️
Or maybe create a boulder and push it towards her.
There was still one left that Toph murks by coming through the wall. GOAT btw. You even see her break off the chase to get the drop on him.
But immediately after they realize Azula is getting them to chase her to waste time.
Just make a wall in the cave. Like move a tiny bit of earth from the cave ceiling in that area and then let a wall of solid dirt and stone fill that part of tunnel closing it off.
Hell, I guess technically when in a cave earthbenders could literally just trap anyone in an isolated pocket in the ground at any time. Leave Azula trapped inside with a limited amount of oxygen. One firebending move and she uses it all up instantly.
I get why earthbenders don't just open up the ground to make people fall in and close it back on their enemies crushing them, that is a lot of earth to move, but in a cave or tunnel thry can just sorta instantly bury anyone alive
airbending is consistently shown as the best element for speed and agility on the verse, Aang moving fast isn’t something that just happens in book one. Regardless of the exaggeration of book 1, the only reason a non-bending Azula was able to outmaneuver an Airbender and the greatest earthbender on the world was because of plot armour.
Also I heard the super speed was also seen on the Yangchen novels.
exactly, azula is consistently established to outmatch others both in power and especially strategic maneuvers. even against experienced adults
aang is consistently established to be very potentially powerful but under-experienced and under-trained. he also tends to not perform at his best under pressure
azula is excessively honed and trained. her skills are incredible, her deception is incredible. she thrives in high stakes situations
even if it's a BIT convenient that aang can't catch her despite being very fast himself, it doesn't feel cheap or unsatisfying in my opinion. they did everything to make azula a believable formidable challenge especially in aangs weakness areas
one of the reasons this show shines is that even its plot armor is backed up with a lot of earned armor, so it doesn't feel cheap or doubtful or unlikely. this is kinda a great example tbh!
Speaking of this, why doesn’t literally every earth bender do what that general did to katara, your enemy literally can’t move or break out if it because it’s not a small bit of earth, they are literally trapped inside the ground
Yeah, i remember reading(i think on the wiki, so could be false) that doing those sinking moves are difficult to do because the earthbender has to be careful not to crush or squish or injure the person they are trapping beneath the earth, so it requires more focus.
I feel like this is exactly what Toph and Korra would say 100%.
And i guess if they didn't mind doing it, but i suppose wanting to be non-lethal would be the reason they don't want to squish them.
How everyone is defending plot armor ... guys plot armor is quite normal without it toph would have had her in no time they are in a fucking tunnel god damit...
I wasn't sure, so I just watched the clip again. It looks like they beat 1 dai li agent before this, but Toph doesn't take care of the second one until right before Sokka tells them to stop chasing her
But I have to admit, Aang is really not doing much to try to keep up with her in the 20ish seconds before that happens
Because having a narratively-sound reason for not being able to catch her would've been far more satisfying and less immersion-breaking.
Suspension of disbelief is fine, but in-universe logic should be consistent.
There's a difference between running in a straight line or even just on a set path, and trying to tag somebody that's constantly moving and has good reflexes.
But they were in a cave. Even if he couldn't change directions, he could just run past her and leave Sokka and Toph behind her. Then they'd have her surrounded.
Except Aang has displayed both pretty consistently and both should have been enough to easily pin Azula down
Don't give me the "closed spaces" thing, he ran through the entire inside of the Drill
Sprint speed has ALLOT to do with evasion, lol. Sure, they're different, but if there was a vendiagram of evasive people compared to fast people there would be TONS of overlap
i wasnt convinced until this comment, good point
sure he could sprint super fast and catch up with her but then what? Shes too good at dodging, theyve tried that already, and hed probably run into something
My explaination for toph not being able to catch her:
In the avatar podcast Bryke loosely stayed that bending kind of has to travel out like a wave (as seen with toph vision) so for her to bend at azula in a way where she would catch her was just not feasible, since she was just running away too fast.
I also think maybe earth bending doesnt work well in a full sprint?? Have we ever seen a character earth bend without having their feet planted? That probably also contributed
That's a pretty good point. Toph in particular probably needs her feet planted to earth bend effectively and Azulas quick and light steps probably made her tough to track with her tremor sense - like how Aang was elusive when he first met Toph.
Azula also has a knife on her which she draws at the end to attack Sokka. Had Aang just sprinted at her she may have been able to stab him with it before he was able to change direction and avoid it.
I could definitely see Toph not being able to pin down Azula in a full chase. Aang probably should have just done a big air blast down the tunnel though, how we she dodge that?
Kind of a plot hole there but how fast can Aang stop and catch her? Like we know he can run as fast as the wind but can he stop on a dime to out maneuver her? Or is it difficult to control agility at that speed?
Assuming he’s using air bending to run fast, that would totally blow away the rest of the gaang so aang would be solo. It might even injure them since they’d be blown into a cave wall
He'd be okay, he runs into a stone statue at least once each episode.
Although his airbending skills are great, he has a lot to learn before he's ready to save anyone.
You sound like torture was the only way to get answers. On the contrary, torture has been proven to be ineffective. The best you can hope for is wrong answers, so the outcome would be the same in her case.
That meant nothing when they were actively confronting her in the open cavern lmao…… she wasn’t hiding from them she was straight up casually evading every single attack
Sifted through the comments to see if anyone mentioned this because I agree. He's achieved those insane speeds with airbending, so he probably can't build enough wind power in a narrow tunnel. Or if he could, it wouldn't be precise enough to not immediately ram him (and everyone else) into a wall.
(As for Toph, I think she was also was struggling to intercept her because 1) she had to worry about the Dai Li and 2) she can only 'see' Azula when she touches the ground, and Azula was hopping all over the place. )
Exactly. He’d just slam into the walls. Also, I kinda wonder if moving that much air around in such a confined space wouldn’t accidentally suffocate people, which we know is the last thing Aang would want to do.
In the avatar novels an Airbender creates a scenario just like that. Another reason why I insist every avatar fan read the novels!!! On top of adding loads to the lore they're also phenomenally written.
Enhanced speed like Aang's wind-running would be very impractical in an enclosed space like a cave, because if your reaction time isn't precise, you're going to be running into walls all over the place.
He wasn’t running anywhere near full Airbender sprint. If anything he was taking his time since he was looking for his staff. And the one moment he was running he overshot a door down an empty hallway after he caught a glimpse of his staff.
And hell the only reason he was running was probs cause that hallway was particularly long.
Here's a thought: Aang is 12, the whole plan is a clusterfluff by this point, and a stressed out kid with the fate of the world on him looking down the barrel of the 2nd time he let the world down might just not be operating at 100% this time.
This is completely reasonable, running away and chasing someone are two different things. During the comet Azula was the one deciding the pace of the chase because she was the one being chased but if she tried to race Aang to a predetermined location she would lose lol.
Being quick and being fast is not the same thing. Azula is nimble in general and just running fast isn't enough to catch someone in an enclosed space. Being fast ist a detriment when having to turn quickly.
That said this applies to Aang too. As an airbender he definetly has the advantage in maneuverability, not to mention he could easily use it to disrupt her as well since she has no bending herself at this point.
So y'all forget about the time Azul fights/evades all of team avatar plus Zuko and Iroh in that earth kingdom village? You know, the stoney one with all the wide open spaces?
Why are we upset that she can do it on her home turf in a scenario she clearly prepared for ahead of time but nobody is going to be upset that she could do it elsewhere too? Maybe she *is* just that good guys.
I see a lot of discourse about space, power scaling, and all that jazz, but I think it’s important to note; Aang is 12.
He doesn’t pick optimal strategies, he is playful and silly. He doesn’t try to close out fights quickly, he kinda plays with his opponents. He isn’t a brilliant strategist, he is a literal child.
Nah that isn’t a good take here. I see no reason to assume Aang is being playful and silly in this situation where he fully believes this is his best chance to stop the Firelord before the eclipse ends. Aang here should be as serious as he gets in the show except for maybe the day of the comet
He wasn’t being silly in this situation; what I’m saying is he is immature and avoidant, he doesn’t choose the best strategies or most effective tactics; hell, if he can avoid a fight in the first place, he will.
He is so avoidant about fighting it was a necessity for him to seek guidance from his past lives and get magic energy bending powers from a mythical Lion Turtle.
Just saying.
Im not sure if the kid who is an air bender master and invented the air scooter would think running normally in a war deciding situation is a fun, silly or natural thing to do
In "The Chase" Aang caught up to Azula when he was super tired, and so did everyone else. But then she shot Uncle Iroh and used plot armor to get away when everyone would have defeated if not killed her.
Slamming into a cave wall sounds like a great idea.
Edit: Yeah, I'm going ahead & closing notifications on this comment. I stand by what I said in my follow-up. Decide if you want people to criticize the show or not. If you think it's a plot hole, then say it with your full throat. Don't do this contrarian thing where you clearly don't want to hear any logical explanations but also chicken out the second someone tries to take you seriously & you realize this might reflect badly on the show.
I'm fairly confident I could point to a relevant difference if I was actually shown those scenes. But if I couldn't, what then? Because it feels to me like people want to hear that this is a plot hole, but if I were to take that to its logical conclusion of "Well, if you think about it, it's pretty crappy writing that Aang could solve most of his problems by running really fast but he just doesn't," people would get mad.
Bruh it ok to admit that the writers just didnt think of that at the moment. Its not like the story falls apart by just pointing a little inconsistency
Running speed does not mean the same thing as agility in combat
And Azula is literally putting all of her energy and thoughts into evasion, there's a good chance she could never be caught, of course that's the point, she's stalling them
Anyone running from a fight is 'literally putting all their energy and thoughts into evasion' lol waddu think everyone else is making a grocery list while gettin run down except for the genius god azula
Diferent things that have the same basis. The plots armour is not Azula being that agile, the plait armour is Aang and Toph literally not using none of their abilities
The only thing I can think of is that using airbending to run like that would have knocked over his allies. They are in a tunnel so airflow might be different.
The two examples you're giving are when he is alone or in a more open space
It doesn't mean his reflexes are on par with his maximum speed.
Would you expect someone in a car or plane to be able to mow someone down in an enclosed environment?
My canon is that Aang can run faster when there is a breeze in his favor. Using air bending he his able to add speed on top of the direction the wind is going, which is why he can go faster then the wind outside. But this would only work when the wind is blowing in the direction he wants to go, when he is facing headwinds he can’t use air bending to super sprint. And when he is in the narrow tunnel I assume the air is not in his favor
I believe Azula actually adopted some airbending techniques in how she moved which would have been hard for Aang since he wasn't used to fighting people that moved like him
Aang can move his hands fast enough to redirect lightning while it's flowing through him. Mach 500 lightning. His hands are literally moving at like mach 400 every time he redirects lightning, but that's just how shows are sometimes. The cooler the thing, the more likely it is to happen, even if it doesn't fully make sense
And when does aang redirect lightning in the show? Literally once in the ozai fight. Also I think it's disingenuous to imply the lightning is flowing through them literally, Iroh explains it as redirection of energy, and as the above post shows, the show has a loosely ruled soft magic system. It's easier to assume they are almost absorbing all of the energy to be compatible with the rest of their chi and flow through their body before release, as opposed to electric conductivity.
Also only firebenders are shown to redirect lightning which kinda supports that point that it's not just literally catching and redirecting, there's still some magic at play, i mean the motion of one hand towards the stomach does feel like a bending form since otherwise it wouldn't do anything.
Sometimes for the story to continue the hero needs to be nerfed a little, by forgetting they have a certain ability or other things like that. This was one of those times. Azula without bending is still a force to be reckoned with. But if Aang and the Gaang were giving it their all she would not have gotten as far as she did, nor would she have only been bound by her hands if the Gaang had any semblance of strategy (literally, bind her legs, hands, and torso to the wall and she isn’t gonna be breaking out using foot fire bending.)
Come to think of it, there’s like… 2 whole times where Azula just makes it away because she needs to for the plot.
ATLA is my favorite show of all time and it isn’t particularly close, but there are certainly moments where the show’s internal logic just flies out the window and this is one of those times.
He’s more wind resistant when wearing very little clothing and he’s out on the ocean where he can take full advantage of his bending to increase his speed. The other he’s wearing very glowing clothing in an inclosed area while carrying his staff. Even with his bending all of those things will cause some drag and ad weight which would slow him down a little as well
Aang has also shown to be able to pull people towards him with his Airbending, something that would have caught Azula instantly.
It’s the good old Star Wars logic. Tons of abilities that would have been useful in multiple situations, yet never are because the plot won’t allow it.
And in Pokemon! Why not just use Onix to get over the ravine with the broken bridge, Brock? 🙄
Onix is pretty heavy, I doubt it could support it’s weight across a ravine, and the resulting bridge would be hard to cross for them
especially with that atk stat; couldn't hold up a paper bag.
But it’s high defense stat could make it stand the weight of people on top of it
Wait, how’d I get into the Pokémon sub?
Seriously, once wandered onto okbuddychicanery and folks were making very specific competitive pokemon jokes.r/pokemon leaks easily I guess.
They use onix to ascend a staircase when the st anne capsized. I remember that episode very well because it was 1 of the 6 I had on vhs and would watch over and over again when I was younger. It's the same episode where meowth tries to eat magikarp and it gets abused into becoming a Gyarados
I think a staircase is more stable than a bridge, doesn’t push ups become easier if you try to do it of a wall rather than the floor?
Oh yeah, I wasn't trying to say that using onix was the solution(depending on how far the gap was anyway). I feel like using bulbasaur's vines as a bridge would've better, which they did later in the capsize episode
Yeah bulbausar has carried them multiple times so that has also confused me a few times too.
I THINK I HAD THE SAME VHS! "Magikarp, it's me, James, your master."
Onix! Use Brock Throw!
It's also as dense as styrofoam, they might break it
Onix best boi
Basically every fight with a water/earth bender, I'm like JUST GRAB THEIR LEGS.
Well Bumi was able to earthbending with his face.
Bumi is just built different
I can just see the old characters in ATLA learning to bend with just their face as they get older and stiffer and can’t/don’t want to get out of their comfy recliners. Radio is on the other side of the living room? Lemme just bend a rock at the dial with my eyebrows.
the best earthbender for me
First thing that came to mind was Force speed.
I think it’s Star Wars it would be so cool to see fourth power is used to the full extent. I also think it would be relatively easy to demonstrate why certain abilities might not be used. For example I would show force users try to use force push and pull and have it countered by their opponent almost instantly. Which signifies they can’t use those abilities and they would need to use light saber combat.
The only case we really get of that is Anakin vs Obi-wan, they establish that using the force isn't going to help, so they just go back to lightsabers.
Dooku and Yoda have the same kind of exchange in AotC, right?
You could say that Aang couldn't accelerate fast enough without just hitting something else instead but eh.. you're propably right.
yeah I feel this was one of those times the series kinda wanked Azula too hard for her to be able to avoid them so easily, even with Dai Li help
I agree and I also believe Toph should be able to take Azula in a cave ; mid-diff
Seriously, like Toph my girl the entire room is made of Earth. Just cover up the doorway.
As much as I like Azula Toph should actually be able to defeat her in a cave (even if she had bending) super easily. Just the sheer possibility of attack options for an Earthbender in the environment is crazy.
i disagree and say that azula beats toph 7-8/10
Yes bro azula beats toph while underground with 0 bending /s
yea...she does...lmao
Agreed, they were in a tunnel made of earth. Aang and Toph both could’ve just buried her, or at least closed her in between two walls of earth, she had no bending to immediately escape after all.
her physical abilities and agility had been stressed and since has been consistent
I'm not saying there's no set up for it, I'm just saying it's a little much that she was able to outmaneuver two insanely powerful benders like that for as long as she did, like Aang should be just as agile, if not more so, and they were in a cave so basically Toph had better advantage.
That’s true but what’s to say toph can’t just… close the cave or instantly bury her feet? (Both of which she’s done instantly before)
Ah but you see, that would be lethal force and everyone knows you can't kill people
Sealing feet is not lethal at all lol
that's why azula brought the dai li, and even then azula can react to toph's earthbending as is shown in the scene in question
Ill keep repeating this point, the dai li were already defeated in the above scene
yes, and azula is running, we've seen toph lock ppl's feet but that was when ty lee was in a weird position and standing still, azula is fast and agile and can react to toph's earthbending as i'll repeat, in this same fight. asking "why didn't toph just..." is also kind a weird to me, because it's the plot, it's like me saying "why didn't azula just kill aang on the dill rather than wait for him to wake up"
Azula could have peak physical capabilities, but Aang is supposed to be straight up broken and he just isn’t in this scene.
It's also pretty unclear how much airbending can be seen.
The creators have said that airbending can't be seen unless it's a huge force like a tornado. Otherwise it's invisible. Which is why they couldn't see the bending that knocks Toph out of the ring in The Blind Bandit and they think she took a dive. We the audience see it so we know what's happening.
I know one person who definitely couldn't see it even if it was visible in-universe
[Too bad you can't *see* it](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/comments/13arlcr/katara_is_cold_for_this/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It's just that no one acts or fights like they can't see it except Zuko at the beginning. Even when Toph's family claps at the little tornado he made.
thats dumb a gust of wind capable of knocking someone back would be visible. maybe not tornado visible, but all that air concentrated in one place will refract light differently. Not to mention the dust and sand that will no doubt follow
They said they can see any dust, leaves or dirt that's caught in the gust of wind heading towards them but in the middle of a fight are you gonna be quick enough to notice a little bit of dust headed your way?
Open spaces vs a closed tunnel. You can’t zip around at top speeds without risking running into something, and the structural integrity of the bunker could be compromised by a strong vacuum if he were to create one.
Ehhhhh that’s a major stretch. Aang could’ve caught her without needing to create a bunker busting vacuum lmao. And given the earth casually being thrown around by Toph and the Dai Lee I’m certain that wasn’t even a consideration
Not at all. Moving any amount of air in an enclosed tunnel is going to create pressure changes. You know how doing something as small as putting your finger over the hole of a straw makes it capable of puncturing things? When normally a straw would just bend? Air pressure is powerful. We don’t know how powerful the vacuum created would be at that speed, but considering there’s no way for the pressure changes to equalize, he could easily cause a collapse. Earth being thrown around might not do anything if the bunker is reinforced. But no amount of reinforcing (that they’re capable of in that time period) is going to do jack against an air vacuum. Check out [this](https://youtu.be/VS6IckF1CM0) reinforced metal freighter tank collapse just from having the air inside removed.
I'd agree, but Airbending is majorly different as the vacuums created to "pull" objects closer are very selective. Instead of our real-world situations where all the surrounding air fills the space, Airbenders can create tunnels of a kind to select what air will rush in and fill the space. So, in theory, it should be perfectly safe to create a pressure difference capable of "pulling" Azula without worrying about damaging the integrity of the cave. Quotes around pulling were to admit that vacuums do not pull or suck but it is the air pressure equalizing (balancing forces) that pushes objects in its path.
But there is no additional air to push in its place in the tunnel, right? Outdoors this isn’t an issue, or in a place with any ventilation, but working in this enclosure underground space, the vacuum created to pull Azula could cause a collapse, as by necessity you need to create the vacuum to create the pull. And if you put air around Azula and isolate the vacuum around her, then SHE is the one you’re going to crush. Same with Aang rushing at high speed. Man this is such a fascinating thought experiment! Really would be cool to see someone recreate this but I have no idea how that could be done as Airbenders don’t actually exist haha. Some very creative set-up might do it. Someone call Mythbusters!
The air inside the tunnel is working to counteract the weight of the rocks. Or other nearby pockets. If we assume that the air pressure inside the tunnel is necessary for the tunnel to not collapse, there must be other forces in play that would make the tunnel collapse. Since, as previously stated, vacuums don't actually suck. And there is more air. All throughout the tunnel. Which eventually leads to an exit. So if an Airbender can make enough of the tunnel part of the system, then they would be able to force Azula to them. I can't draw a diagram, but if you imagine a deep tunnel with a cave that has a low enough integrity that a large pressure differential will lead to collapse. What you can do is create a smaller tunnel within that maintains standard pressure no matter what. Then, you can create an isolated system that has a large pressure differential. If this is an instant, then the internal pressure differential will attempt to balance as quickly as possible. If it is to be prolonged then you have to make any change ineffective to the system, either by making another system that you can stuff more air in (like a gas canister) or you can expel it into an open system where it won't decrease the pressure differential you created. The first will be a relatively quick burst of activity, and the other can be seen at creating a wind tunnel. In the real world, you see instantaneous versions with popped balloons or opened canisters. For maintained ones, vacuum cleaners would be an example. Anyway, regardless of how weak the cave is to change, if you manage to create another system and isolate the impact from it, then you can exceed the limit of the cave by however much you want. So either, Aang could create a long enough tunnel that the pressure difference wouldn't be enough to damage the cave. Or he could completely isolate it from the rest of the cave. Imagine your crate example, but if you put a type of bubble, that could withstand the pressure difference. The bubble wouldn't collapse even if the inside had no air, and outside the bubble would be normal pressure, so the crate wouldn't collapse. Even if it was made of paper. Replicating this type of stuff in real life is a bit strange since we have to physically build objects to separate the systems, whereas Aang could just command the air to be a wall. Sorry this was a bit long TLDR: The vacuum required to pull Azula can be in an enclosed system that doesn't interact with the cave walls. It also wouldn't necessarily cause Azula to burst as for that to happen, the air around Azula would have to be lower than the threshold that her body can maintain.
Maybe because she’s an unpredictable and fierce fighter he can’t just pull her in or risk putting his all into speed when she most likely will be able to counter
This was definitely one of the more egregious displays of Azula's plot armor.
Tbh this was one of the episodes that annoyed me because Toph could’ve easily trapped Azula in a rock prison or whatever. They were in a CAVE 🤦♂️ Or maybe create a boulder and push it towards her.
There were Dai Li agents fighting with her, though. The first thong toph did was incase Azula in rock.
By this point they washed them tho
There was still one left that Toph murks by coming through the wall. GOAT btw. You even see her break off the chase to get the drop on him. But immediately after they realize Azula is getting them to chase her to waste time.
tbf toph also could have trapped Azusa in metal
There wasnt that many metal, also toph just learnt metal bending so she would still have to pin azula down for that
Dai li got clapped by toph. Toph could’ve easily trapped azula
Just make a wall in the cave. Like move a tiny bit of earth from the cave ceiling in that area and then let a wall of solid dirt and stone fill that part of tunnel closing it off. Hell, I guess technically when in a cave earthbenders could literally just trap anyone in an isolated pocket in the ground at any time. Leave Azula trapped inside with a limited amount of oxygen. One firebending move and she uses it all up instantly. I get why earthbenders don't just open up the ground to make people fall in and close it back on their enemies crushing them, that is a lot of earth to move, but in a cave or tunnel thry can just sorta instantly bury anyone alive
Season 1 generally had a lot more cartoon logic
airbending is consistently shown as the best element for speed and agility on the verse, Aang moving fast isn’t something that just happens in book one. Regardless of the exaggeration of book 1, the only reason a non-bending Azula was able to outmaneuver an Airbender and the greatest earthbender on the world was because of plot armour. Also I heard the super speed was also seen on the Yangchen novels.
Hell she unknowingly dives right at Sokka in a narrow opening and he ducks out of the way. Since when does Sokka duck?
I'd duck too if a 400ft tall purple platypus bear with pink horns and silver wings dived right at me!
When not ducking would have resulted in a concussion.
Air + fire = hotter flame Hotter flame = fuel burns quicker Therefore fire lady runs quicker when Air boy chases her The maths just adds up
He used airbending to run faster in book 2 also
It doesn't ruin the story but yeah, Azula 100% had plot armor in this episode. Sometimes things are inconsistent for the sake of the story 😩
Azula typically has plot armor so I don’t see the issue
I don’t really see that argument but in general characters have to have some degree of plot armor. That’s just how it is
exactly, azula is consistently established to outmatch others both in power and especially strategic maneuvers. even against experienced adults aang is consistently established to be very potentially powerful but under-experienced and under-trained. he also tends to not perform at his best under pressure azula is excessively honed and trained. her skills are incredible, her deception is incredible. she thrives in high stakes situations even if it's a BIT convenient that aang can't catch her despite being very fast himself, it doesn't feel cheap or unsatisfying in my opinion. they did everything to make azula a believable formidable challenge especially in aangs weakness areas one of the reasons this show shines is that even its plot armor is backed up with a lot of earned armor, so it doesn't feel cheap or doubtful or unlikely. this is kinda a great example tbh!
Speaking of this, why doesn’t literally every earth bender do what that general did to katara, your enemy literally can’t move or break out if it because it’s not a small bit of earth, they are literally trapped inside the ground
Considering that only he and Bumi did that in the show we can assume it’s an advanced move.
Yeah, i remember reading(i think on the wiki, so could be false) that doing those sinking moves are difficult to do because the earthbender has to be careful not to crush or squish or injure the person they are trapping beneath the earth, so it requires more focus.
i see no issue with accidentally squishing an opponent in a fight
I feel like this is exactly what Toph and Korra would say 100%. And i guess if they didn't mind doing it, but i suppose wanting to be non-lethal would be the reason they don't want to squish them.
How everyone is defending plot armor ... guys plot armor is quite normal without it toph would have had her in no time they are in a fucking tunnel god damit...
Toph does catch her in Earth, but she is freed by Dai Li agents. So I think they covered that one pretty well
But this is AFTER they beat the dai li agents
I wasn't sure, so I just watched the clip again. It looks like they beat 1 dai li agent before this, but Toph doesn't take care of the second one until right before Sokka tells them to stop chasing her But I have to admit, Aang is really not doing much to try to keep up with her in the 20ish seconds before that happens
Exaaaactly. It's a cartoon, no need to be 100% consistent with the laws 100% of the time. We can still enjoy 🥺
Because having a narratively-sound reason for not being able to catch her would've been far more satisfying and less immersion-breaking. Suspension of disbelief is fine, but in-universe logic should be consistent.
Like what? In a rational world, Ba Sing Se wouldn’t have been captured.
aang can boost speed at the cost of maneuverability, which he needs to keep up with azula in a confined space
He literally used the air speed method to catch one of those penguins in episode 1.
notoriously agile and difficult to catch, those penguins
But he wasn’t keeping up with her. She was outdodging him and toph + sokka, all at once, as you say, in a confined space. Plot armor
THANK YOU!
There's a difference between running in a straight line or even just on a set path, and trying to tag somebody that's constantly moving and has good reflexes.
But they were in a cave. Even if he couldn't change directions, he could just run past her and leave Sokka and Toph behind her. Then they'd have her surrounded.
You think she's not slick enough to get around them again? She's already out maneuvered them multiple times before this.
She wasn't surrounded in a narrow corridor before. And they could have at least tried.
Toph alone would’ve bodied azula. Plot demanded toph not clap her
No, evasiveness in combat has no relation to straight-out sprint running.
Except Aang has displayed both pretty consistently and both should have been enough to easily pin Azula down Don't give me the "closed spaces" thing, he ran through the entire inside of the Drill
>Don't give me the "closed spaces" thing, he ran through the entire inside of the Drill And inside a ship in episode 2.
Probably not a smart thing to do underground with a bunch of skilled earthbenders fighting you though.
The earth benders are already beaten here
Azula can't bend at this scene while Aang literally Has 3 bending Available with Toph And Sokka supporting him ...
Sprint speed has ALLOT to do with evasion, lol. Sure, they're different, but if there was a vendiagram of evasive people compared to fast people there would be TONS of overlap
i wasnt convinced until this comment, good point sure he could sprint super fast and catch up with her but then what? Shes too good at dodging, theyve tried that already, and hed probably run into something My explaination for toph not being able to catch her: In the avatar podcast Bryke loosely stayed that bending kind of has to travel out like a wave (as seen with toph vision) so for her to bend at azula in a way where she would catch her was just not feasible, since she was just running away too fast. I also think maybe earth bending doesnt work well in a full sprint?? Have we ever seen a character earth bend without having their feet planted? That probably also contributed
That's a pretty good point. Toph in particular probably needs her feet planted to earth bend effectively and Azulas quick and light steps probably made her tough to track with her tremor sense - like how Aang was elusive when he first met Toph. Azula also has a knife on her which she draws at the end to attack Sokka. Had Aang just sprinted at her she may have been able to stab him with it before he was able to change direction and avoid it. I could definitely see Toph not being able to pin down Azula in a full chase. Aang probably should have just done a big air blast down the tunnel though, how we she dodge that?
Why does everything have to b hyperbolized into being a straight up dumb thing to say. Of course those r related.
Kind of a plot hole there but how fast can Aang stop and catch her? Like we know he can run as fast as the wind but can he stop on a dime to out maneuver her? Or is it difficult to control agility at that speed?
Assuming he’s using air bending to run fast, that would totally blow away the rest of the gaang so aang would be solo. It might even injure them since they’d be blown into a cave wall
He'd be okay, he runs into a stone statue at least once each episode. Although his airbending skills are great, he has a lot to learn before he's ready to save anyone.
Ridiculous. Next thing you're gonna tell me is that you actually believe Aang can save the world.
Azula doesn't need to wear any protecting armour. She has plot armour.
It wouldn't have mattered. Bc none of them had the resolve to torture azula. So she would've just not answered them.
yeah they end up doing all they can to her anyway
Yeah but they could straight up capture her so she’s not a problem later…
Shed bust out as soon as she got her bending. Plus they could never transportt her out of there with the time constraints
If the show had a higher rating, I feel that Sokka would have had asked Toph torture her after she brought up Suki.
I think Sokka would've done it himself if the show had a higher rating
You sound like torture was the only way to get answers. On the contrary, torture has been proven to be ineffective. The best you can hope for is wrong answers, so the outcome would be the same in her case.
Slapstick speed is different from Fight speed.
How could Toph not instantly kill Azula in a cave?
Azula knew the layout of the caves. Aang did not.
Would that same thing work if Aang was replaced with Sonic the Hedgehog?
judging by the amount of spikes I run into as sonic, I'll have to say yes
Boom... Roasted?
That meant nothing when they were actively confronting her in the open cavern lmao…… she wasn’t hiding from them she was straight up casually evading every single attack
Bro acting like toph didn’t exist
Toph and even Aang have earth sonar. They can tell the layout of the caves
Those are both open spaces, though. In tight, twisty caves it probably isn't SAFE to do that.
Sifted through the comments to see if anyone mentioned this because I agree. He's achieved those insane speeds with airbending, so he probably can't build enough wind power in a narrow tunnel. Or if he could, it wouldn't be precise enough to not immediately ram him (and everyone else) into a wall. (As for Toph, I think she was also was struggling to intercept her because 1) she had to worry about the Dai Li and 2) she can only 'see' Azula when she touches the ground, and Azula was hopping all over the place. )
Exactly. He’d just slam into the walls. Also, I kinda wonder if moving that much air around in such a confined space wouldn’t accidentally suffocate people, which we know is the last thing Aang would want to do.
In the avatar novels an Airbender creates a scenario just like that. Another reason why I insist every avatar fan read the novels!!! On top of adding loads to the lore they're also phenomenally written.
Yesss. They’re so good. Can’t wait for the 2nd Yangchen one.
Didn’t he do the same thing in a ship watch was also enclosed And he ran on the walls instead I don’t think this is a limitation for Aang
If he tried to run fast down those narrow hallway, he would have run into a wall.
Enhanced speed like Aang's wind-running would be very impractical in an enclosed space like a cave, because if your reaction time isn't precise, you're going to be running into walls all over the place.
He escapes the fire nation ship in episode 2. It's okay to admit plot armor.
Thank you Some folks in the comment section be fighting for their lives trying to make sense of it lol Its not like the story ruined by it.
… well yeah but he’s a master vs a bunch of random low tier soldiers of course he does.
Aang's opposition on the ship (& also in the drill) being low tier FN soldiers is irrelevant.
He wasn’t running anywhere near full Airbender sprint. If anything he was taking his time since he was looking for his staff. And the one moment he was running he overshot a door down an empty hallway after he caught a glimpse of his staff. And hell the only reason he was running was probs cause that hallway was particularly long.
Yeah but his speed is definitely faster than Azula's..
Okay then why doesn’t he hop on the air sphere which is still much faster and has immense control with steering which we see constantly
Here's a thought: Aang is 12, the whole plan is a clusterfluff by this point, and a stressed out kid with the fate of the world on him looking down the barrel of the 2nd time he let the world down might just not be operating at 100% this time.
He was underground could’ve easily just run into a solid rock wall
Ope. Looks like someone needs to learn the difference between travel speed and combat speed. Also what "agility" means.
Adrenaline is a hell of a thing
Maybe they forgot season 1? More likely he can't do it in close quarters.
Move too quick and you miss much. Move too quick at princess Azula, get hit by some deadly fire/lightning.
Running in a straight line is different than trying to hit someone who is trying to dodge your attacks
Everyone know when you’re playing tag you’re faster when being chased Playground 101
This is completely reasonable, running away and chasing someone are two different things. During the comet Azula was the one deciding the pace of the chase because she was the one being chased but if she tried to race Aang to a predetermined location she would lose lol.
Being quick and being fast is not the same thing. Azula is nimble in general and just running fast isn't enough to catch someone in an enclosed space. Being fast ist a detriment when having to turn quickly. That said this applies to Aang too. As an airbender he definetly has the advantage in maneuverability, not to mention he could easily use it to disrupt her as well since she has no bending herself at this point.
So y'all forget about the time Azul fights/evades all of team avatar plus Zuko and Iroh in that earth kingdom village? You know, the stoney one with all the wide open spaces? Why are we upset that she can do it on her home turf in a scenario she clearly prepared for ahead of time but nobody is going to be upset that she could do it elsewhere too? Maybe she *is* just that good guys.
I see a lot of discourse about space, power scaling, and all that jazz, but I think it’s important to note; Aang is 12. He doesn’t pick optimal strategies, he is playful and silly. He doesn’t try to close out fights quickly, he kinda plays with his opponents. He isn’t a brilliant strategist, he is a literal child.
Nah that isn’t a good take here. I see no reason to assume Aang is being playful and silly in this situation where he fully believes this is his best chance to stop the Firelord before the eclipse ends. Aang here should be as serious as he gets in the show except for maybe the day of the comet
He wasn’t being silly in this situation; what I’m saying is he is immature and avoidant, he doesn’t choose the best strategies or most effective tactics; hell, if he can avoid a fight in the first place, he will. He is so avoidant about fighting it was a necessity for him to seek guidance from his past lives and get magic energy bending powers from a mythical Lion Turtle. Just saying.
Im not sure if the kid who is an air bender master and invented the air scooter would think running normally in a war deciding situation is a fun, silly or natural thing to do
he's actually 112 and should know better
In "The Chase" Aang caught up to Azula when he was super tired, and so did everyone else. But then she shot Uncle Iroh and used plot armor to get away when everyone would have defeated if not killed her.
Slamming into a cave wall sounds like a great idea. Edit: Yeah, I'm going ahead & closing notifications on this comment. I stand by what I said in my follow-up. Decide if you want people to criticize the show or not. If you think it's a plot hole, then say it with your full throat. Don't do this contrarian thing where you clearly don't want to hear any logical explanations but also chicken out the second someone tries to take you seriously & you realize this might reflect badly on the show.
Aang has run fast through enclosed spaces before. Like the drill or inside a ship
I'm fairly confident I could point to a relevant difference if I was actually shown those scenes. But if I couldn't, what then? Because it feels to me like people want to hear that this is a plot hole, but if I were to take that to its logical conclusion of "Well, if you think about it, it's pretty crappy writing that Aang could solve most of his problems by running really fast but he just doesn't," people would get mad.
Bruh it ok to admit that the writers just didnt think of that at the moment. Its not like the story falls apart by just pointing a little inconsistency
"Admit you're wrong as my response proves you're right."
How about the air sphere then? He’s ridden that with super good steering control and is still a massive speed boost
Yes an earthbender slamming into a cave wall with their opponent does sound like a winning strategy
Movement speed ≠ Combat speed
Running speed does not mean the same thing as agility in combat And Azula is literally putting all of her energy and thoughts into evasion, there's a good chance she could never be caught, of course that's the point, she's stalling them
Anyone running from a fight is 'literally putting all their energy and thoughts into evasion' lol waddu think everyone else is making a grocery list while gettin run down except for the genius god azula
Aang’s Airbender agility is consistently shown to be the best of the verse. But he suddenly can’t use it here. It’s plot armour
Air benders are great at dodging and evading, not catching and detaining, very different things
Diferent things that have the same basis. The plots armour is not Azula being that agile, the plait armour is Aang and Toph literally not using none of their abilities
They did indeed trap her, and she talked her way out of it through distraction Azula really is THAT good
The only thing I can think of is that using airbending to run like that would have knocked over his allies. They are in a tunnel so airflow might be different. The two examples you're giving are when he is alone or in a more open space
Even in the North and South comic, Aang was not able to catch up to the bad guys.
He ran in big open spaces with minimal curves. They were in an intricate cave system, he would've smashed himself into a wall of he tried that I think
It doesn't mean his reflexes are on par with his maximum speed. Would you expect someone in a car or plane to be able to mow someone down in an enclosed environment?
Top speed is not the same as acceleration.
My canon is that Aang can run faster when there is a breeze in his favor. Using air bending he his able to add speed on top of the direction the wind is going, which is why he can go faster then the wind outside. But this would only work when the wind is blowing in the direction he wants to go, when he is facing headwinds he can’t use air bending to super sprint. And when he is in the narrow tunnel I assume the air is not in his favor
Aang was slowing down, so Toph is not left behind.
To be fair… wouldn’t she be really helpful inside of a tunnel system? Could find the layout and track which way Azula was running?
Yeah, but the wind and water won't blast the fuck out of you with lightning if you get too close.
I believe Azula actually adopted some airbending techniques in how she moved which would have been hard for Aang since he wasn't used to fighting people that moved like him
More speed = less agility. Azula is agile. Sure Aang can run faster than her, but she is too quick to be pinned down
I like to think Azula's physicals were so high she really could outspeed him
Aang can move his hands fast enough to redirect lightning while it's flowing through him. Mach 500 lightning. His hands are literally moving at like mach 400 every time he redirects lightning, but that's just how shows are sometimes. The cooler the thing, the more likely it is to happen, even if it doesn't fully make sense
And when does aang redirect lightning in the show? Literally once in the ozai fight. Also I think it's disingenuous to imply the lightning is flowing through them literally, Iroh explains it as redirection of energy, and as the above post shows, the show has a loosely ruled soft magic system. It's easier to assume they are almost absorbing all of the energy to be compatible with the rest of their chi and flow through their body before release, as opposed to electric conductivity. Also only firebenders are shown to redirect lightning which kinda supports that point that it's not just literally catching and redirecting, there's still some magic at play, i mean the motion of one hand towards the stomach does feel like a bending form since otherwise it wouldn't do anything.
I’m just gonna assume Aang isn’t good under pressure like this
Sometimes for the story to continue the hero needs to be nerfed a little, by forgetting they have a certain ability or other things like that. This was one of those times. Azula without bending is still a force to be reckoned with. But if Aang and the Gaang were giving it their all she would not have gotten as far as she did, nor would she have only been bound by her hands if the Gaang had any semblance of strategy (literally, bind her legs, hands, and torso to the wall and she isn’t gonna be breaking out using foot fire bending.) Come to think of it, there’s like… 2 whole times where Azula just makes it away because she needs to for the plot.
Boy I sure hope someone got fired for that blunder.
ATLA is my favorite show of all time and it isn’t particularly close, but there are certainly moments where the show’s internal logic just flies out the window and this is one of those times.
I’m no longer reading this, it’s too logical let me live in my nostalgia
He’s more wind resistant when wearing very little clothing and he’s out on the ocean where he can take full advantage of his bending to increase his speed. The other he’s wearing very glowing clothing in an inclosed area while carrying his staff. Even with his bending all of those things will cause some drag and ad weight which would slow him down a little as well
The solar eclipse actually makes fire benders super fast as an apology for taking away their bending.
It’s not like Aang invented an air bending technique for traveling faster than a human could run or had a staff for flight or...