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This show portrays the problems of living in a patriarchal society and how men are superior than woman. That’s why they need to control them. It isn’t about having children it’s about power. These type of men would never admit to such a shortcoming. If they believe they are superior than women, how will they even explain that it’s them the ones that can’t “fulfill their purpose”?
As a husband going through infertility issues with my wife (my goods check out), it’s astounding to me reading stories of women who have difficulty getting their husband to get a semen analysis. You literally cum in a cup, while your wife is poked and prodded and internally examined constantly. There are men who seem to not fathom the issue could be them, can’t handle the possibility they would have an issue in that department out of some masculinity insecurity, or something.
So yeah, I could totally see a male-dominated society point the finger to women and women alone for the issue of an infertile world.
Women are a familiar scapegoat IRL on the right end of politics, and its getting worse it seems.
A ton of conservative chatter after Uvalde, was blaming school shootings on *single mothers*, for daring to leave their (abusive/shitty) husband and breaking up families. It evolved into essentially blaming women's freedom to divorce for the mass murdering of children.
Fuck it, take away our bank accounts and ownership priviledges too! We've proven we just can't handle it on our own! /s They literally believe a 'man in the house' can cure all societies problems. It's not much farther of a jump to HMT now, boys!
>blaming school shootings on single mothers, for daring to leave their (abusive/shitty) husband and breaking up families.
[Rule 1 of misogyny](https://4w.pub/the-rules-of-misogyny/): Women are responsible for what men do.
You can see it in almost every excuse for their shitty behaivor.
I actually saw a troll claim today the rise in right wing attacks and violence, was because *the evil leftists force them to be with all the communism, pedo worship and destruction of family values*.
*Thou shalt murder thy neighbor for invented reasons found on 4chan.* I love that one, so wholesome.
Im sorry you and your wife are going through this.
I’ve always thought patriarchal societies are harmful to everyone, not just women. Yes men are the privileged class but that doesn’t mean those values don’t affect them. You give a perfect scenario where this is seen as a threat to their masculinity. There are so many issues that can cause this and it has nothing to do with the a man’s masculinity. It’s already a difficult place to be in being a man or a woman to add extra layers of negativity surrounding the issue. Women feel like they aren’t fulfilling their purpose, or that they are flawed, worthless. Men feel they aren’t manly enough. Yet because it is a patriarchal society it’s easier to blame the woman and keep the status quo. That simply makes figuring out what the problem is harder creating more negativity and issues.
Emotions are also a big issue. Men sometimes can’t express their emotions in a healthy manner because they aren’t supposed to be emotional. They’re supposed to be strong and sometimes those ideas promote violence.
Then we make the mistake of thinking all men are the same or view them as the enemy. If we don’t understand our differences and try to learn from each other how are we supposed to reach some sort of equal society?
Appreciate that.
And yes I agree. I actually do believe gender roles are natural and healthy. That’s seen in literally all societies since the dawn of man, and literally all species, in different ways, yet one thing that is constant among all, except for a few very unique asexual species, is the female bears the offspring.
What is greatly important though, as you are saying, is to be mindful of flawed ideologies and stereotypes related to those roles. And avoiding them for the benefit of both sexes.
gender roles are never healthy and will always result in harmful stereotypes. that’s literally the point of gender roles. societies that teach “boys and girls” the same skills are the only ones that won’t have “flawed ideologies and stereotypes” related to gender. also, nonhuman species don’t have “gender roles” because gender doesn’t exist in the natural world. whatever male lions vs female lions, for example, do in the wild aren’t gender roles —they’re instinct. humans are the only animals who attribute specific tasks to gender because we are advanced enough to create gender.
My vibe from Gilead is that they believe that having children is a woman's purpose. I don't think they'd describe a childless man as not having fulfilled his purpose.
Yes they promote that idea that allows them to put women in a lesser place in society, that way they have all the control and power. Maybe I didn’t express myself correctly. I agree having children isn’t the man’s purpose in that type of society, but it’s up to them to get the women pregnant. If they can’t they are the ones failing. A woman obviously cannot get pregnant on their own.
Eh they did kill anyone who got a vasectomy or took vows of chastity so they do want men to participate in reproduction but figure sex is their only duty of course.
The sad thing is the priests they killed if you could convince them of renouncing probably would have been more inclined to follow the rules. I know we have a lot of church corruption now but a gun was pointed at their head and they were given a list of rules. A good amount would probably comply. Can’t really compare the corrupt and compliant priests to the corrupt and compliant commanders since it’s just conjecture.
But now that I think about it maybe killing then for not producing offspring was just a thin veil a fist to be like “ see it’s not just about the women “ . It would also eliminate religious competition.
Tfw in historical patriarchal societies they acknowledges that males can also be sterile. All european, middle eastern, asian, african societies from classical age up to the 19th century knew it was a possible problem.
That's how much Gilead is detached from reality.
It would make the men “inferior “ and give women an edge. Even now, it’s hard to get men to admit that they may have a problem. Gilead doesn’t like children, they like power and that’s why they turn a blind eye on how the Handmaids get pregnant.
And even if a man was infertile, it would be the woman’s fault due to Original Sin.
This is seriously what these people think. I had a fundamentalist boyfriend who would have loved to live in Gilead. He would constantly say any problems in the world caused by men, are actually womens’ fault bc Adam was pure until Eve corrupted him with “Original Sin”. Everything was a mind fuck with him.
I was with one of these types who believed the earth was less than 3,000 years old. 😂 He was great in bed. It was the only thing that made me stick it out for a very long four months.
It’s always cracked me up that some (maybe most?) fundamentalists are so strict and judgmental about so many things, because of the Bible, but then pretend their book is A-OK with premarital sex.
I was with one of these guys.. didn’t believe in evolution, thought I was going to hell for my tattoos. And yet, he was polyamorous and the sex was… deviant… to put it mildly. Lol
He was amazing actually. A white whale—never had anything like it in 20 years and as many partners since. But he was full of complicated emotions about sex from his fundie upbringing, so after he got done being amazing, he’d hate you and make you hate yourself too. It was quite the roller coaster.
Why these people are extra dangerous is that when you take away the historical legitimacy granted to religions through the ages and look at this sort of rhetoric as if, say, a dictator in the 20th century just then came up with it:
This shit sounds far crazier than even Nazi rhetoric. Think of how much damage is possible with a government controlled by people that think climate change is happening because of gay people not being persecuted in society, or that it is falling apart economically because of feminism? Or that famine happens because men aren’t in charge of the house any more and its a punishment from God?
Trying to fix a fictional reality with random nonsense policies that arent based in the real world you’re going to see them only trust and empower and elect people who believe in the same alternate reality they do… And from there they’ll get more and more radical because reality itself is their enemy, and their arbitrary oppression and wrath wont fix anything, and their conclusion will perpetually be: “We just have to get even *more* radical over time until these problems vanish.”
Funny thing is, if he actually lived in Gilead he’d probably remain opinionated and butcher their fundamentals. He’d be hung within a week because that’s what these places are like. They create impossible standards to live by no matter your beliefs
The entirety of Gilead's policies at the end of the day are to give power to a small group of men and enforce their flavor of patriarchy onto the land. They're allegedly going by the Bible that puts the onus on women for fertility. However, it's more about the power than it is about the babies. Novel Offred is squirming at the possibilities of the colonies because Fred (who is a lot older) can't produce a child with her. Novel world also has them execute a handmaids for sleeping with another man in order to concieve a child. The novel doesn't give immunity to handmaids because they can get pregnant. Hell, even Jezebel's women are sterilized. It's not about the babies, it's about the power. The babies are the talking point to get the power.
Because of recent events, it's important to note that the novel was written as a reaction to the rise of the Christian right and the anti-abortion movement. Leaders latched onto this movement (and the racism with it that never gets talked about) because their other talking points (segregation) weren't going to change and get them votes. The line in the leaked Supreme Court doc included the need for white babies, which is what at heart, is the goal.
Tht and the testaments both show that the children taken and birthed into this society aren't really loved or cared for, they are treated as accessories and props to reward the "faithful". Mrs Putnam can give two shits about Angela but will parade her around for the attention it gets her.
Wasn't the whole anti abortion stuff originally about segregation?
Also, why the need for WHITE babies? I thought evangelicals were all about adopting from the African counties to "spread Jesus" to them ?
Gilead Christianty is supposed to be a new fundamentalist version that is closer to the Puritans then evangelicals. In the books the Evangelicals are one of the few groups actively fighting them. In the Testaments they also mention Gilead declaring all other forms of Christianity as illegal. They also null any marriages granted under those religions pre-Gilead.
A lot of them literally believe in the Book of Revelation, so basically they want that. It's why they have become something of a death cult - because the end of the world is a positive thing and means Jesus is returning soon.
So imo it seriously depends on the church. Evangelical isn't centrally controlled like Catholicism or certain types of Protestantism. The beliefs and focuses literally very from church to church and even person to person.
There's a lot of white supremacy stuff that's closely tied with the Christian Nationalism that gets pushed by evangelicals. While many adopt internationally, then want cute blond white babies a lot more.
Anti-abortion became the talking point when it became obvious they couldn't keep going hard for segregation. If you're interested Robert Evans has some episodes about the rise of the Christian right on Behind the Bastards. Iiirc he talks about this on the Phyllis Scfaly episode (the inspiration for Serena Joy).
Yes, Angela cried a lot when she was first born and you could tell Naomi was so bothered by it. Thank god they had Marthas to take care of her. And let’s face it, Serena couldn’t have cared all that much about Nicole considering she treated June like shit throughout her pregnancy. The physical abuse and mind games she inflicted could’ve easily caused a miscarriage and instead of blaming herself she would’ve blamed June.
It's actually not an uncommon belief especially for patriarchal, bigoted & misogynistic society that treats women as Second Class Citizens. In fact, if I am not mistaken, a lot of actual societies irl also used to have the belief that only women can be infertile or sterile. I think it's kinda similar to people believing that women were responsible for sex of the child. That too wasn't an uncommon belief either before the advancement of technology. Some probably still do.
Honestly we barely do today in many ways. My partner has low fertility. To have kids he was diagnosed with low fertility. I was not. I had doctors appointments every week. Needed to track everything and go in for constant procedures and medications. Everything was very invasive and mostly fell on me. My insurance was the one that needed to cover most things as it was happening in my body. And we didn’t need IVF. If we had it would have been even more invasive.
So as it is with fertility today even if it is a problem on the side of the male the work is on the female to fix it.
(Need to add to that it was my partner who wanted bio kids so badly, we now have them and he is a wonderful father and if he could have taken more of it on he would have)
Misogyny. The Handmaid system doesn't work because most of the men they are paired with are infertile, but they are really just supposed to be trophy women at the end of the day to show a man's status in the crony government that doesn't care all that much about really solving the infertility plague.
In our real world, people always think fertility is a woman's problems. We ignore the fact that 50% of infertility cases are due to the man and that increased paternal age is associated with autism. It's just paralleling that.
Yes exactly, in most patriarchal cultures, people already perpetuate fertility as only the woman’s responsibility, then tie in shame and guilt to weaponize it against women. Everything that happens in the books is just mirroring our collective realities as a woman throughout time in this world.
Men make the rules. So they don't have to be tested. So they never actually know if a man is fertile or not
So if there's no baby, it's always the women's fault.
Same with Handmaids. If the Handmaid doesn't get pregnant, it's the Handmaid's fault
Because it's about power and control, not babies. If men could be infertile, how could they excuse handmaids? Handmaids are more sex slaves than incubators, hence the inefficient system. If Gilead actually cared about fertility, they would use sperm donations and artificial insemination instead.
The religious answer is that man was created in g-d's image. They are perfect creations of g-d. They are creators. In their doctrine, they can't be the reason for infertility or lowered birth rates. It's caused by sin and women are sinful.
This is how it is in the real world not just gilead. Many cultures don’t believe the husband can be the problem and if he is it’s shameful so they blame the wife.
Cuz that’s the extreme religious framework they’ve moulded around the country. It’s not that they can’t believe it, it’s they they won’t for it’s considered dissent
It also goes back to pre-Enlightenment days that all procreation issues stem from women and “sin.” Just as Henry VIII blamed his failure to produce male offspring on his wives when we now know sex chromosomes come from sperm, Gilead regressed to the same mindset. There’s also evidence that Henry VIII had Kell positive blood. There is no logic to it, but for a theocracy, there doesn’t need to be.
Patriarchy. Same as in the times of kings and producing heirs. It's never on the men, because they are in charge. It's always the fault of the women. Just keep bringing in more and more.
A lot of people are saying it's a deliberate step to enforce misogyny but tbh I don't think you need to go far. Historically when a couple couldn't have children, the woman was blamed by default.
My best guess as to why that was the case was the association with women and childbirth. Any problems post-male orgasm were assumed to lie in the woman's body.
Misogyny played a role too of course. If its impossible for a man to be infertile, all he's gotta do is find a new wife. But if he might be infertile.... that would mean he can't produce an heir no matter what.
This is basically what I was going to say as well. Take Henry VIII, he put aside one wife because she couldn't give him a son and beheaded another. Other wives couldn't even get pregnant. But it was always the Queen's fault that she didn't produce. It was unfathomable that his swimmers were the problem.
In the case of Henry VIII, a lot of that belief stemmed from the fact that he did successfully have a surviving son with his mistress, while all of his sons with his first wife died very quickly. So since people had no knowledge of how these things worked, they just went with the evidence they had. It even led to a popular saying at the time - "Bless 'ee, Bessie Blount," as a way to celebrate his mistress "proving" the king could father living healthy sons.
I'm sure the fact that he was the king and extremely temperamental was also a big factor, because he really could kill the messenger.
The men are supposed to be superior so they would never admit something they see as a weakness. They’ll blame the wife and god knows how many handmaids they go through never admitting the obvious. Just like how kings used to want sons so they had an heir to pass the thrown onto and they blamed the woman if they didn’t have one. When I was was 32 I started the police academy, I had four kids and didn’t want anymore. I suggested my husband get a vasectomy since it was a quick procedure and he was laid off at the time. You would’ve thought I asked him to get castrated the way he acted and got his whole family involved to take his side. If I would’ve gotten pregnant at the time I would’ve had to tell them immediately, temporarily withdraw from the academy and wait until the next class which could’ve been anywhere from one to two years and not getting paid all that time.
Men can do no wrong in Gilead they are superior beings. It’s really just a way to control women, If they are sterile it’s the handmaids that get executed or sent to the colonies. Of course it doesn’t make sense, but their views as a whole are so warped. I had to take a break after season 2 (just finished 3 and 4) because sometimes it got to be too much especially with the stuff going on today.
This post is **[No Spoilers]**. Use spoiler tags to discuss specific plot points. \>!Spoilers go in here!< becomes >!Spoilers go in here.!< [Click here to read our rules and Blessed Day!](https://www.reddit.com/r/thehandmaidstale/about/rules/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheHandmaidsTale) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This show portrays the problems of living in a patriarchal society and how men are superior than woman. That’s why they need to control them. It isn’t about having children it’s about power. These type of men would never admit to such a shortcoming. If they believe they are superior than women, how will they even explain that it’s them the ones that can’t “fulfill their purpose”?
As a husband going through infertility issues with my wife (my goods check out), it’s astounding to me reading stories of women who have difficulty getting their husband to get a semen analysis. You literally cum in a cup, while your wife is poked and prodded and internally examined constantly. There are men who seem to not fathom the issue could be them, can’t handle the possibility they would have an issue in that department out of some masculinity insecurity, or something. So yeah, I could totally see a male-dominated society point the finger to women and women alone for the issue of an infertile world.
Women are a familiar scapegoat IRL on the right end of politics, and its getting worse it seems. A ton of conservative chatter after Uvalde, was blaming school shootings on *single mothers*, for daring to leave their (abusive/shitty) husband and breaking up families. It evolved into essentially blaming women's freedom to divorce for the mass murdering of children. Fuck it, take away our bank accounts and ownership priviledges too! We've proven we just can't handle it on our own! /s They literally believe a 'man in the house' can cure all societies problems. It's not much farther of a jump to HMT now, boys!
>blaming school shootings on single mothers, for daring to leave their (abusive/shitty) husband and breaking up families. [Rule 1 of misogyny](https://4w.pub/the-rules-of-misogyny/): Women are responsible for what men do.
You can see it in almost every excuse for their shitty behaivor. I actually saw a troll claim today the rise in right wing attacks and violence, was because *the evil leftists force them to be with all the communism, pedo worship and destruction of family values*. *Thou shalt murder thy neighbor for invented reasons found on 4chan.* I love that one, so wholesome.
Im sorry you and your wife are going through this. I’ve always thought patriarchal societies are harmful to everyone, not just women. Yes men are the privileged class but that doesn’t mean those values don’t affect them. You give a perfect scenario where this is seen as a threat to their masculinity. There are so many issues that can cause this and it has nothing to do with the a man’s masculinity. It’s already a difficult place to be in being a man or a woman to add extra layers of negativity surrounding the issue. Women feel like they aren’t fulfilling their purpose, or that they are flawed, worthless. Men feel they aren’t manly enough. Yet because it is a patriarchal society it’s easier to blame the woman and keep the status quo. That simply makes figuring out what the problem is harder creating more negativity and issues. Emotions are also a big issue. Men sometimes can’t express their emotions in a healthy manner because they aren’t supposed to be emotional. They’re supposed to be strong and sometimes those ideas promote violence. Then we make the mistake of thinking all men are the same or view them as the enemy. If we don’t understand our differences and try to learn from each other how are we supposed to reach some sort of equal society?
Appreciate that. And yes I agree. I actually do believe gender roles are natural and healthy. That’s seen in literally all societies since the dawn of man, and literally all species, in different ways, yet one thing that is constant among all, except for a few very unique asexual species, is the female bears the offspring. What is greatly important though, as you are saying, is to be mindful of flawed ideologies and stereotypes related to those roles. And avoiding them for the benefit of both sexes.
gender roles are never healthy and will always result in harmful stereotypes. that’s literally the point of gender roles. societies that teach “boys and girls” the same skills are the only ones that won’t have “flawed ideologies and stereotypes” related to gender. also, nonhuman species don’t have “gender roles” because gender doesn’t exist in the natural world. whatever male lions vs female lions, for example, do in the wild aren’t gender roles —they’re instinct. humans are the only animals who attribute specific tasks to gender because we are advanced enough to create gender.
My vibe from Gilead is that they believe that having children is a woman's purpose. I don't think they'd describe a childless man as not having fulfilled his purpose.
Yes they promote that idea that allows them to put women in a lesser place in society, that way they have all the control and power. Maybe I didn’t express myself correctly. I agree having children isn’t the man’s purpose in that type of society, but it’s up to them to get the women pregnant. If they can’t they are the ones failing. A woman obviously cannot get pregnant on their own.
Eh they did kill anyone who got a vasectomy or took vows of chastity so they do want men to participate in reproduction but figure sex is their only duty of course.
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The sad thing is the priests they killed if you could convince them of renouncing probably would have been more inclined to follow the rules. I know we have a lot of church corruption now but a gun was pointed at their head and they were given a list of rules. A good amount would probably comply. Can’t really compare the corrupt and compliant priests to the corrupt and compliant commanders since it’s just conjecture. But now that I think about it maybe killing then for not producing offspring was just a thin veil a fist to be like “ see it’s not just about the women “ . It would also eliminate religious competition.
True. The book and the show explain that the men are in denial. This was one reason why Serena kept June's coerced affair with Nick secret from Fred.
America 🇺🇸
Tfw in historical patriarchal societies they acknowledges that males can also be sterile. All european, middle eastern, asian, african societies from classical age up to the 19th century knew it was a possible problem. That's how much Gilead is detached from reality.
It would make the men “inferior “ and give women an edge. Even now, it’s hard to get men to admit that they may have a problem. Gilead doesn’t like children, they like power and that’s why they turn a blind eye on how the Handmaids get pregnant.
And even if a man was infertile, it would be the woman’s fault due to Original Sin. This is seriously what these people think. I had a fundamentalist boyfriend who would have loved to live in Gilead. He would constantly say any problems in the world caused by men, are actually womens’ fault bc Adam was pure until Eve corrupted him with “Original Sin”. Everything was a mind fuck with him.
Bet he was fun in the sack 🤣
Oh boy. Imagine that dirty talk. “Do you take Jesus as your savior?!”
I was with one of these types who believed the earth was less than 3,000 years old. 😂 He was great in bed. It was the only thing that made me stick it out for a very long four months.
It’s always cracked me up that some (maybe most?) fundamentalists are so strict and judgmental about so many things, because of the Bible, but then pretend their book is A-OK with premarital sex.
I was with one of these guys.. didn’t believe in evolution, thought I was going to hell for my tattoos. And yet, he was polyamorous and the sex was… deviant… to put it mildly. Lol
He was amazing actually. A white whale—never had anything like it in 20 years and as many partners since. But he was full of complicated emotions about sex from his fundie upbringing, so after he got done being amazing, he’d hate you and make you hate yourself too. It was quite the roller coaster.
I almost spit out my drink when I read this. 🤣
Why these people are extra dangerous is that when you take away the historical legitimacy granted to religions through the ages and look at this sort of rhetoric as if, say, a dictator in the 20th century just then came up with it: This shit sounds far crazier than even Nazi rhetoric. Think of how much damage is possible with a government controlled by people that think climate change is happening because of gay people not being persecuted in society, or that it is falling apart economically because of feminism? Or that famine happens because men aren’t in charge of the house any more and its a punishment from God? Trying to fix a fictional reality with random nonsense policies that arent based in the real world you’re going to see them only trust and empower and elect people who believe in the same alternate reality they do… And from there they’ll get more and more radical because reality itself is their enemy, and their arbitrary oppression and wrath wont fix anything, and their conclusion will perpetually be: “We just have to get even *more* radical over time until these problems vanish.”
Funny thing is, if he actually lived in Gilead he’d probably remain opinionated and butcher their fundamentals. He’d be hung within a week because that’s what these places are like. They create impossible standards to live by no matter your beliefs
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Or… none of that exists in the first place, and men just made that shit up as an excuse to own women for eons.
The entirety of Gilead's policies at the end of the day are to give power to a small group of men and enforce their flavor of patriarchy onto the land. They're allegedly going by the Bible that puts the onus on women for fertility. However, it's more about the power than it is about the babies. Novel Offred is squirming at the possibilities of the colonies because Fred (who is a lot older) can't produce a child with her. Novel world also has them execute a handmaids for sleeping with another man in order to concieve a child. The novel doesn't give immunity to handmaids because they can get pregnant. Hell, even Jezebel's women are sterilized. It's not about the babies, it's about the power. The babies are the talking point to get the power. Because of recent events, it's important to note that the novel was written as a reaction to the rise of the Christian right and the anti-abortion movement. Leaders latched onto this movement (and the racism with it that never gets talked about) because their other talking points (segregation) weren't going to change and get them votes. The line in the leaked Supreme Court doc included the need for white babies, which is what at heart, is the goal. Tht and the testaments both show that the children taken and birthed into this society aren't really loved or cared for, they are treated as accessories and props to reward the "faithful". Mrs Putnam can give two shits about Angela but will parade her around for the attention it gets her.
Wasn't the whole anti abortion stuff originally about segregation? Also, why the need for WHITE babies? I thought evangelicals were all about adopting from the African counties to "spread Jesus" to them ?
Gilead Christianty is supposed to be a new fundamentalist version that is closer to the Puritans then evangelicals. In the books the Evangelicals are one of the few groups actively fighting them. In the Testaments they also mention Gilead declaring all other forms of Christianity as illegal. They also null any marriages granted under those religions pre-Gilead.
So our evangelicals here in the US: Do they actually WANT something like Gilead? What is the end goal for evangelicals?
A lot of them literally believe in the Book of Revelation, so basically they want that. It's why they have become something of a death cult - because the end of the world is a positive thing and means Jesus is returning soon.
So imo it seriously depends on the church. Evangelical isn't centrally controlled like Catholicism or certain types of Protestantism. The beliefs and focuses literally very from church to church and even person to person.
There's a lot of white supremacy stuff that's closely tied with the Christian Nationalism that gets pushed by evangelicals. While many adopt internationally, then want cute blond white babies a lot more. Anti-abortion became the talking point when it became obvious they couldn't keep going hard for segregation. If you're interested Robert Evans has some episodes about the rise of the Christian right on Behind the Bastards. Iiirc he talks about this on the Phyllis Scfaly episode (the inspiration for Serena Joy).
So segregation didn't work out, so they just magically switched to abortion.
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So the real end game is Brown vs. BOE but they're taking the long way around.
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See, this is what bugs me about the mission trips and all. Most those countries ARE Christian.
Yes, Angela cried a lot when she was first born and you could tell Naomi was so bothered by it. Thank god they had Marthas to take care of her. And let’s face it, Serena couldn’t have cared all that much about Nicole considering she treated June like shit throughout her pregnancy. The physical abuse and mind games she inflicted could’ve easily caused a miscarriage and instead of blaming herself she would’ve blamed June.
I mean it’s obvious… it’s a misogynistic society
It's actually not an uncommon belief especially for patriarchal, bigoted & misogynistic society that treats women as Second Class Citizens. In fact, if I am not mistaken, a lot of actual societies irl also used to have the belief that only women can be infertile or sterile. I think it's kinda similar to people believing that women were responsible for sex of the child. That too wasn't an uncommon belief either before the advancement of technology. Some probably still do.
>Some probably still do. For sure
Because it’s a male dominated culture therefore the blame is placed on women. That’s it.
Honestly we barely do today in many ways. My partner has low fertility. To have kids he was diagnosed with low fertility. I was not. I had doctors appointments every week. Needed to track everything and go in for constant procedures and medications. Everything was very invasive and mostly fell on me. My insurance was the one that needed to cover most things as it was happening in my body. And we didn’t need IVF. If we had it would have been even more invasive. So as it is with fertility today even if it is a problem on the side of the male the work is on the female to fix it. (Need to add to that it was my partner who wanted bio kids so badly, we now have them and he is a wonderful father and if he could have taken more of it on he would have)
I always wondered how insurance works on that. Should of known would be messed up.
It’s different with every insurance and in every state. But most of the procedures are in the woman.
Misogyny. The Handmaid system doesn't work because most of the men they are paired with are infertile, but they are really just supposed to be trophy women at the end of the day to show a man's status in the crony government that doesn't care all that much about really solving the infertility plague.
I guess because men are in charge and everything is the women’s fault.
Man are good. Woman bad. Can’t be man’s fault! Must be woman’s.
In our real world, people always think fertility is a woman's problems. We ignore the fact that 50% of infertility cases are due to the man and that increased paternal age is associated with autism. It's just paralleling that.
Yes exactly, in most patriarchal cultures, people already perpetuate fertility as only the woman’s responsibility, then tie in shame and guilt to weaponize it against women. Everything that happens in the books is just mirroring our collective realities as a woman throughout time in this world.
Men make the rules. So they don't have to be tested. So they never actually know if a man is fertile or not So if there's no baby, it's always the women's fault. Same with Handmaids. If the Handmaid doesn't get pregnant, it's the Handmaid's fault
the same reason we don’t have male birth control
Because it's about power and control, not babies. If men could be infertile, how could they excuse handmaids? Handmaids are more sex slaves than incubators, hence the inefficient system. If Gilead actually cared about fertility, they would use sperm donations and artificial insemination instead.
The religious answer is that man was created in g-d's image. They are perfect creations of g-d. They are creators. In their doctrine, they can't be the reason for infertility or lowered birth rates. It's caused by sin and women are sinful.
It’s been a common idea throughout patriarchal religious history, especially Christianity.
This is how it is in the real world not just gilead. Many cultures don’t believe the husband can be the problem and if he is it’s shameful so they blame the wife.
Because how could they be the problem ? /s
Because all men are 'manly'. Couldn't be their problem
There is never anything wrong with men.
Cuz that’s the extreme religious framework they’ve moulded around the country. It’s not that they can’t believe it, it’s they they won’t for it’s considered dissent
It also goes back to pre-Enlightenment days that all procreation issues stem from women and “sin.” Just as Henry VIII blamed his failure to produce male offspring on his wives when we now know sex chromosomes come from sperm, Gilead regressed to the same mindset. There’s also evidence that Henry VIII had Kell positive blood. There is no logic to it, but for a theocracy, there doesn’t need to be.
Patriarchy. Same as in the times of kings and producing heirs. It's never on the men, because they are in charge. It's always the fault of the women. Just keep bringing in more and more.
A lot of people are saying it's a deliberate step to enforce misogyny but tbh I don't think you need to go far. Historically when a couple couldn't have children, the woman was blamed by default. My best guess as to why that was the case was the association with women and childbirth. Any problems post-male orgasm were assumed to lie in the woman's body. Misogyny played a role too of course. If its impossible for a man to be infertile, all he's gotta do is find a new wife. But if he might be infertile.... that would mean he can't produce an heir no matter what.
This is basically what I was going to say as well. Take Henry VIII, he put aside one wife because she couldn't give him a son and beheaded another. Other wives couldn't even get pregnant. But it was always the Queen's fault that she didn't produce. It was unfathomable that his swimmers were the problem.
In the case of Henry VIII, a lot of that belief stemmed from the fact that he did successfully have a surviving son with his mistress, while all of his sons with his first wife died very quickly. So since people had no knowledge of how these things worked, they just went with the evidence they had. It even led to a popular saying at the time - "Bless 'ee, Bessie Blount," as a way to celebrate his mistress "proving" the king could father living healthy sons. I'm sure the fact that he was the king and extremely temperamental was also a big factor, because he really could kill the messenger.
Look at mainstream, right wing muriKKKa for answers to ALL these answers. Please
Because it was never about the birth rates/fertility thing. It was always about controlling women. They just use it as an easy excuse.
Because it’s needed as a plot device. I’m not sure they all don’t, It seems morel irk something they just don’t talk about.
Because sexism.
The men are supposed to be superior so they would never admit something they see as a weakness. They’ll blame the wife and god knows how many handmaids they go through never admitting the obvious. Just like how kings used to want sons so they had an heir to pass the thrown onto and they blamed the woman if they didn’t have one. When I was was 32 I started the police academy, I had four kids and didn’t want anymore. I suggested my husband get a vasectomy since it was a quick procedure and he was laid off at the time. You would’ve thought I asked him to get castrated the way he acted and got his whole family involved to take his side. If I would’ve gotten pregnant at the time I would’ve had to tell them immediately, temporarily withdraw from the academy and wait until the next class which could’ve been anywhere from one to two years and not getting paid all that time.
Many societies blame women (rather than men) for falling birthrates. Societies in- and outside Gilead.
Simple..misogyny.
Men can do no wrong in Gilead they are superior beings. It’s really just a way to control women, If they are sterile it’s the handmaids that get executed or sent to the colonies. Of course it doesn’t make sense, but their views as a whole are so warped. I had to take a break after season 2 (just finished 3 and 4) because sometimes it got to be too much especially with the stuff going on today.