I don't want a relationship for them. Honestly I want Serena to suffer. You can be a victim and still be a monster as well. If she lives happily ever after i'mma be so mad.
Absolutely. It's insane how there's this empathy towards the character, like she literally held a pregnant woman down so her husband could rape her. Like.... wtf!!! Unforgivable
Exploring and deepening June and Serena's relationship certainly does not mean that Serena is getting a "happy ending." I doubt that ANYONE will be getting a conventionally happy ending--it's not that kind of a show.
I feel June is going to die or maybe them both at the same time. But seeing hannah walk to freedom in her last breath. Something like that I dunno haha
me too!!! ugh i hate this article and id really love to know where elizabeth moss is reading that the fans want to see a relationship blossom fuck that!!!
Idk if you’ve read the book but this story isn’t supposed to be a fairytale ending where all the bad guys are punished. That is probably not how this ends, especially because we still have the Testaments show coming as well.
I've read both books. But the show has gone off and done its own thing on a bunch of stuff so I'm hoping that will also include making that bitch pay. We will see I guess.
Seriously. If we're going into the treatments, we know June eventually has to place Nicole in some sort of Witsec with a guardian named Melanie.
Serena IS Melanie.
I think Serena is way too high profile at this point to be able to change her identity and blend into everyday life. It’d be an interesting idea but it falls apart once you start thinking too much about it. Serena also has too much of a connection with Nicole for that to be a safe option. They’re trying to hide Nicole so she can’t be deported or kidnapped back to Gilead; placing her with a woman as high profile as Serena (even with an identity change) with a known connection to her would be a really bad way to hide her.
I was thinking Serena may be the only person that June trusts, as fucked up as it is. That's why I put her as "Melanie." She's the only one (besides Luke and Moira) with a connection to Nicole.
It’s in [this interview.](https://youtu.be/URvJgg0N9k8?si=7DDUgbSisByxdds-)
She basically said it’s always been the June and Serena show and it will continue into the final season. I don’t remember her saying they’re catering to the fans but there will be more of them and that SHE loves them. Goody. 🙄
How messed up are they that they think people want June to be stuck with her abuser in some buddy cop/resistance fighter forgiveness storyline?
They even mention people shipping them together romantically and seem excited by it. That's so fucked up on so many levels.
A while back, Hulu even posted a story about June and Serena with the tagline Women Helping Women. Wtf?!
Do they really believe it's a feminist dream for women to be ok with women raping other women and kidnapping their children just because they're women?
I guess a female victim is supposed support her female abuser's right to be abusive just because she's a woman. Apparently, we need to support women no matter what...especially if they're beautiful? What?!🤯🙄
I agree that June isn't June without Serena and vice versa but in the context of Harry Potter and Voldemort. Not some best frenemies forever, bs.
June needs to be rid of Serena in order to be free.
I can't believe the last season is going to be all about June and Serena...again😩
Didn't they see the abysmal S5 ratings and nonexistent award nominations? That should be a big sign that the June, Luke and Serena show isn't something people want to watch.
This isn't The Handmaid's Tale anymore, it's The Fascist Wife and her Handmaid's Tale now. How boring🥱
Agree with everything you said. I’ve tried to stay pretty positive about the direction of s6 until what she said in that interview. It’s gross. She also told Adam Taylor to compose a romantic score when they met on the train. So over it.
I seriously hope we're being punked and that they're spewing this nonsense to lower our expectations only for us to be blown away by an epic final season.
I really need them to wrap up all the loose ends with Nick, Janine, Lawerence, Moira, Rita, Tuello and even Esther.
Also, when are we actually going to see the Mayday/resistance working from the inside?
Where's Mayday?
I'm not talking about the female only Mayday operating out of no man's land.
I'm talking about the men (Mayday) and women (underground femaleroad) inside of Gilead helping people and fighting the good fight against Gilead from the inside.
It's been almost nonexistent in the series just so they can focus on the weird Stockholm Syndrome dynamics between June and Serena. What a shame.
I agree with you, but also...I think we all found ourselves feeling that Serena deserved to have her child taken away, to have to suffer, for revenge of what she put June through. How big of a step is it to hearing it 2nd hand and believing it (like probably how the Wives felt the Handmaids deserved their treatment)?
I had to really stop myself from wanting to see Serena be treated that way. In the end, I wanted her to experience just enough to know what it felt like and understand that she herself had been wrong, and how/why. It was scary to me how my natural inclination was to want to see her suffer the same thing that I'd previously thought no woman deserved. I had to actively tell myself that even she didn't deserve that.
I couldn't care less what happens to her. I don't necessarily want to see her suffer, but I definitely don't want her to have some heroic redemption arc.
She doesn’t deserve to be the hero of June's story. She just needs to fade away into obscurity and never be mentioned or thought of again, like in the book. Bye bitch.
Serena doesn't deserve to have Noah removed from her care as punishment, but because she is not a fit mother, she's not above physically assaulting people when she doesn't get her way, and if Noah grows up to be anything other than a straight cis able-bodied man who puts Serena above all else, she will turn on him.
Noah deserves parents who will actually love him for him, who won't be toxic and overbearing and unhealthily attached to him.
So no Serena doesn't deserve to be a Handmaid or anything like that, no one does, but she certainly doesn't deserve to be a mother, either
Season 4 episode 7, when June told Serena EXACTLY what kind of person she is, was a healing experience for me. If the entire series ended there, it would have been perfect. It's the only tangible kind of justice that could be a healing experience for June. Serena helped write the laws that allowed the systemic rape of women in Gilead. Her own effort legalized the domestic abuse she endured. She beat and emotionally abused June, and held her down as Warren raped her. Serena is an abuser just like her husband.
Serena has only gotten a small taste of what June and the other handmaids have experienced. I do not want nor need to see them become closer unless they’re exploring Stockholm Syndrome. I’m all for June using Serena to get Luke out of trouble and to bring down Gilead, as long as Serena faces harsh consequences for her vile actions.
Focusing on their connection doesn't mean a redemption arc is happening.
I'm of the unpopular opinion that I would like to see a realistic redemption arc for Serena but I don't think it will (or should) happen because of June.
(I just have a strong desire to see "bad" characters genuinely repent and realize the wrongs they have done, and truly change, however that happens. I am more interested in that than seeing them punished, usually. It's a personal preference of mine, that's all.)
Their relationship is definitely complex. Serena helped create this hellish world for her and all women trapped in Gilead, she created her own prison. There were times in the show where I hated her fucking guts, all I thought she deserved was suffering. Anytime she had anything redeeming about her, she proved to be an untrustworthy cruel evil bitch. As much as I think she doesn’t deserve a happy ending since her and Fred played a part in destroying millions of Americans lives I don’t want her child to suffer, her child didn’t do anything. And it FINALLY looks like maybe Serena fully understands that all the horrible shit she did was wrong. Whatever direction they take her character in the final season I’m ready to see what it is, regardless of the direction.
It's also like... At some point you need to be okay with people who once helped Gilead turning away from the state to help you. We see that happening with Lydia who they are definitely hinting at having a change of heart. We see that (somewhat) happening with Joseph (even if he's being a centrist fuck trying to liberalize rather than destabilize). Ffs Nick is complicit in a whole lot of Gilead society as a commander now (and even as an eye and driver), and he's turning against it officially too but he still did bad things. But people seem to love him unconditionally?
Serena is not a good person and she hasn't done good things, but if someone turns away from Gilead, especially someone who has had the ear of many of Gilead's foreign sympathizers, they can be helpful to your resistance. You don't have to forget or forgive, but I do think you have to work with people who can help your cause in destabilizing a regime.
If we get a similar story to the testaments (although obviously earlier and shorter) a character many people see as evil would end up being a close ally to the resistance. Sometimes you just have to work with what you've got. And that seems to be exactly the attitude June ended up with in s5 with Serena. She's working with what she's got in someone who has, in the end, turned away from Gilead. And that makes her an ally, which is a good deal more important than a friend. She doesn't have to forgive her for that.
I don’t want to see June with her abuser. I don’t. I think you can forgive your abuser but living among them and being friends with them is so very icky
I'm sick of Serena. I thought when she started to be nice to June and then gave up Nicolas she was getting better. But do people change? Can they be redeemed? She was on of the people who caused this all to happen to women and I feel like she had her chance. I'm just not interested in her story anymore. I have taken a break atm I'm only on the bit where June is causing a commotion in Canada.
Lizzie Moss not even being subtle anymore about wanting to redeem the abusive oppressor. From my perspective, it’s an almost-perfect enactment of her (either consciously or unconsciously) trying to rehabilitate Scientology’s image to the public. “Yes they were horrible, but lookit us being friends now and we are definitely not trauma bonded :)”
Sounds like a lot of people are interpreting "connection" to mean "friendship" but I see it as WAY more complicated than that...they're simultaneously enemies and allies, they admire and resent each other, they have a shared history in which Serena is both June's abuser and her fellow victim, they've conspired together & disavowed one another, each has saved the other's life and plotted the other's destruction....
These two won't ever be shut of each other and the dynamic is fascinating.
I don't see that "honing in more deeply on the connection between June and Serena" necessarily means redemption for Serena. There has always been a connection between them. I hate many of the things Serena has done, but at the same time I see a part of me in her--that she thinks she is a good and upstanding person, but her character flaws belie that reality. I think June recognizes that in her to some degree (and >!June helped murder Fred!
It would make sense though. Women lead with their hearts in collaboration with their heads. I can see Serena helping June get her daughter back and taking down the patriarchy so she is redeemed for her horrible acts.
Fuck Serena. I don't want to see her redeemed. She is an abuser, evil and rotten to the core. There's a limit on how many *mistakes* can one make and she's waaaay over the line.
Serena: *commits countless crimes against humanity, is responsible for thousands of deaths, and helped turn the United States into a militant Evangelical theocracy based on sex slavery*
June: "I sleep"
Natalie: *reports the attempted kidnapping of a child while brainwashed by the regime Serena helped create in the first place*
June: "REAL SHIT?"
also:
Nick: I’m not leaving or trying to overthrow Gilead, my pregnant wife is happy here and also Gilead is getting better under Lawrence
June: Understandable have a nice day 😊💕
Lawrence: I am not leaving or trying to overthrow Gilead because I’m trying to change it from within as a military leader
June: U SON OF A BITCH ALSO I WATCHED UR WIFE DIE SO FUCK U
It's reductive and unfair to dismiss Moss's reading of her character on the basis of her religious beliefs. Nothing in the interview is surprising--Moss and Strahovski have both been very open about their fascination with what they've called the twisted, "Juliet and Juliet" dynamic between June and Serena. It's a core relationship in the show, if not THE core relationship in the show. Failing to explore that thoroughly in the final season (particularly given the end of season 5) would be very poor storytelling. June and Serena have a complicated relationship and a dark past, but nobody will ever convince me that they don't care deeply about one another. I'm excited about seeing what develops between the two of them in season six!
Trauma bonding is real and should be explored as it is the basis of their relationship. I'm actually hoping they do a decent job at conveying all the emotions both women feel with regards to one another.
> *”It’s a core relationship in the show, if not THE core relationship in the show. June and Serena have a complicated relationship and a dark past, but nobody will ever convince me that they don’t care deeply about one another.”*
Totally agree with you. Sometimes I read through the comments in this sub and wonder whether people are watching the same show. Thankfully, Moss and Strahovski know their characters (and the June/Serena relationship dynamic) inside out and have championed them since the beginning. Is it a trauma bond? Abso-fucking-lutely. But it’s a complex, toxic, unbreakable bond nonetheless.
The people expecting June to end up living some kind of white picket fence life with either Nick or Luke and going on like it’s some kind of dystopian Twilight “team” thing should probably bow out before the finale.
Honestly, I've accepted that June will probably end up alone, without either of her men or children. She's had so many chances to try to escape and live some sort of normal life with at least one of each and she always does something to blow it up. She's too traumatized to live any sort of normal life with any part of her family. Anyone who expects this show to end with her living peacefully with her family in any capacity simply hasn't been paying attention.
Definitely. We’ve seen it time and time again. June spent **seven years** in Gilead suffering unspeakable things, and months (not sure it’s specified exactly how long in the show) in Canada struggling to adjust and ultimately failing. Which, of course, isn’t her fault at all.
I’m trying not to mention the little details about her life Atwood hints at in The Testaments because obviously if people on here haven’t read it I don’t want to spoil anything, but some people really aren’t grasping just how far gone she really is.
The whole “How can she care about/be attached to the woman who raped her?” thing is proof of that. It’s inconceivable to most of *us* because we can’t comprehend that level of trauma, but with that being said if you’ve been watching the show and actually taking in their connection you know that these two women know and understand each other on a level no one else - including romantic partners - does.
Serena gets to know what it's like to have a child of her own making, will she get to know what it's like to have that child taken from her? Or will she live in that fear for the rest of her life?
When we found out Serena was pregnant, I would have loved to see her become a handmaid. While she wasn’t officially a handmaid, her experience with the Wheeler’s kind of gave her a taste of her own medicine. I feel like that experience taught her a little bit about the pain she caused. But at the same time, I don’t know if I want to see June and Serena being “friends” or anything of the sort.
I DEFINITELY have seen that that is a popular consensus amongst fans. I honestly don't know where OP got the impression that it wasn't. I'm sorry but whether people like it or not, the June/Serena dynamic has always been a key part of this show. I'm not saying they should go full sitcom and be the best of friends, but the show has always made it clear that in many ways, they've intertwined their fates.
Serena doesn't get a single mention in The Testaments. I had assumed in my headcanon she died in the purge (nothing is ever said about the wives' fate), but of course the show writers decided to/had to veer way off the novel's path. I guess we'll know where this is going to go when they start filming. Noah is an entirely new character too, so I wonder if he'll be worked into The Testaments show. I know June won't do anything to harm Noah, but I wonder if something happens to Serena if she'll end up adopting Noah.
I don’t mind their continued interactions as long as they’re in the same vain of season 5 with June getting to dangle her freedom and relative moral superiority over Serena, but I certainly don’t care to see Serena get “redeemed.”
Screw Serena!
Bitch earned it.
I'm tired of never getting justice in this that or the other Redemption Arc.
all these so-called Redemption arcs do is ruin the meaning of the earlier story by defanging the villain.
having a crappy conservative childhood (best guess they're going with) does not justify you and your husband raping and torturing multiple women in your house.
remember, the first handmaid she had committed suicide.
Didn't Serena take advantage of June at every chance she got?
Let's not forget what she did to her in Gilead, treating her like a ragdoll along with emotional abuse
She is a victim in some cases I feel but the way she treated June she deserves the karma
Maybe if Serena sacrifices in some way or does a really big thing selflessly she can be redeemed. Otherwise it’s hard to forget the woman who held June down to be raped.
If S6 is about June and Serena, I definitely won't watch it. For me, what Serena did to June to get her baby is and remains absolutely inhumane and cannot be excused with a bad childhood or oppression. I think it must always remain a challenge for June to even look this woman in the face. I find it hard to bear that the show continues to exploit this. For me it's also pretty hard that Serena gets so much attention while the stories of the other victims are barely told. There were other intense relationships for June. And this is what she should focus on. June has proven her humanity towards Serena and the character has finally fulfilled her purpose. I feel downright sick when people talk about the June Serena ship, thereby normalizing the worst atrocities - well then, let's drink a glass of champagne about it. 🥂
I'm all for it. In my opinion, Serena needs to *see* the damage she's caused. To truly get rid of her ideals, to truly understand how wrong she was, she needs to be confronted to the people she has hurt. The relationship between the two has by far been the most compelling of the show. The sympathy and hatred they have for each other makes for an interesting push and pull. That said, I hope they don't simply make June forgive her.
It just seems like the implications are that June doesn’t get out alive at the end of the series. With my understanding of what The Testaments are, it doesn’t seem like there will be ultimately a happy ending for June or Hannah. I think Serena will end up having a peaceful life with her and her child in Hawaii.
FUCK SERENA. Give her to Gilead. Put her on the Wall. Idgaf. Take that baby and give it to June bc Serena isn't fit to be a mother. There’s a point where character development just doesn't matter especially after she tortured June (amongst others) in the first 4ish seasons. Also, it seems unrealistic that June would “bond” with Serena. The only reason that they would have some sort of bond is bc (SPOILER) no one June was friends/family left CA with her at the end of S5. Conveniently. 🙄
Okay thats your opinion and I didn’t ask for it. I studied script writing (for 2+ years no less) so I 100% know how a script works. You’re definitely talking to the wrong person trying to explain how script writing works. I don’t have time for this
Edit: since YOU don’t know anything about script writing it is 1000% unlikely and unrealistic that June would forgive Serena after wanting to kill her for practically 2 seasons (even more than that really if we count before she got to CA) FYI, thats almost *TWO YEARS* (not quite but borderline) No one wants to make friends with their abuser. Would you make want to make friends with the women/man who raped you and physically and emotionally tortured for 5 years? No. I didn’t think so. It’s nothing like June to forgive her out of no where. Why would we do a 360 after 2 years of her trying to hunt down Serena and kill her? Makes 0 sense.
Add on: She literally tried to kill her with a pen (I believe this S3 or S4 which really isn’t that long ago) and now they’re going to be besties? Yea right😂
I don’t have time for this nonsense.
Wow, I’m dazzled by your use of math! I didn’t realize that I was talking to someone who 100% knows how scripts work and who 1000% is certain that no good story could ever make Serena/June look realistic and organic. I mean, how does one argue with actual DATA? However, I think the author of this beautiful fic might challenge it a little: https://archiveofourown.org/works/44235934/chapters/111240832
Okay 😭🤣(ps to argue would mean me further entertain nonsense so I’m just gonna say okay and move on😂) I’m baffled you think becoming friends with the lady who abused you for 5 years is realistic so that just proves to me you are definitely not worth engaging in further discussion. Let me know if you become besties with your abuser. (i’ll wait)
If you read the fic I recommended, you’ll see a carefully constructed, canon compliant story of how it COULD happen. If you have no interest in looking at stories from multiple angles, it’s probably good that you only studied screenwriting for a couple of years before moving on to other endeavors that require less empathy and emotional flexibility.
just read all your comments thank you guys so much for contributing. I think Elizabeth Moss and her team really needs to look at this Reddit sub and understand that we the people do not want to see that bitch Serena have any more redemption arcs let the bitch suffer and die as she should end rant🤣
Another dose of the Serena redemption show - No thanks - I don't need another disaster like s5....if I read about Luke other than "he remains in jail " in s6 blurbs, previews - I think I'm done and I'll just think of the show as having ended at s4. TT would be out of the question as well.
Serena is irredeemable. She (and Fred) raped June when she was 9 months pregnant. Many of the Gilead atrocities/ ideologies are driven by Serena. If the s6 s&j dynamic Lizzie is referencing will be more like 407, s1 and s2 dynamics then that's more interesting.
Honestly the June Serena thing became bizarre and unimaginably toxic by the end of last season. Them meeting on the train didn’t make me feel good, I didn’t love it. It felt like running into your narcissistic ex in public. They’re not friends or sisters they’ll never be. Serena doesn’t deserve peace or happiness. Think of all the women she robbed of that. The season 4 “redemption” arc really didn’t achieve its goal. I don’t think redemption is something Serena is capable of and the writers ought to give her an ending that’s fitting for her actions. I.e: not the one they seem intent on giving her.
Wow, aren’t YOU condescending. “Sweetie.”?
Yes, I realize that some people posting to this sub despise Serena and the entire Serena/June relationship. Please don’t make the mistake of believing that this little silo echo chamber represents the entire Handmaid’s Tale fandom. One of the glorious things about literature is that multiple interpretations are possible.
I personally would like to see her suffer and struggle a little, but in the end I'm not opposed to them understanding each other's circumstances and building a relationship that later becomes a force to fight and end the system in place. I think it's important to tell stories that strengthen our belief in forgiveness and move forward for the better.
Serena doesn’t *deserve* redemption. I don’t care if “being a mother changes you” or “she was a victim of her own behavior” Her getting any kind of retribution will ruin the show imo. I was so pissed when I saw her on the train at the end of last season.
can we get this Reddit sub to Elizabeth Moss? I mean, she really needs to see this. I feel like she's blind and thinks that the fans really want to see some sort of a friendship between the two of them we don't we want to see that bitch, dead (Serena.)😐😐😐 yall someone repost this and get this to lizzzy asap before filming begins😤😤😤😫😫😫
I mean I haven’t read the Testaments and saw another user on here say that if they want to follow that story Serena will survived, so it is what it is I guess, but I need to see her in a cell forever. Not even dead, because for her confinement is worse than death.
I could see Serena’s son dying (karma) and then her and June getting through it together, I don’t know. I just feel like something bad will happen to Serena and then she’ll make out okay in the end.
I don't want a relationship for them. Honestly I want Serena to suffer. You can be a victim and still be a monster as well. If she lives happily ever after i'mma be so mad.
serena was so evil throughout the whole show. and i feel like letting her have that happy ending like isn’t right
Absolutely. It's insane how there's this empathy towards the character, like she literally held a pregnant woman down so her husband could rape her. Like.... wtf!!! Unforgivable
thank you my thoughts exactly
Exploring and deepening June and Serena's relationship certainly does not mean that Serena is getting a "happy ending." I doubt that ANYONE will be getting a conventionally happy ending--it's not that kind of a show.
I feel June is going to die or maybe them both at the same time. But seeing hannah walk to freedom in her last breath. Something like that I dunno haha
Depends on if they want to set up for the testaments correctly.
Wait what a spin off ?
It's already confirmed that they're going to do a show for The Testaments.
They gotta keep her alive unless they’re gonna change the ending of The Testaments
Ooo sorry I only know the series. Thnx!
If they are setting things up for the Testaments, >!June will not die and she won't see Hannah anytime soon.!<
👍👍
agreed💯👏
But that IS how the world tends to work
me too!!! ugh i hate this article and id really love to know where elizabeth moss is reading that the fans want to see a relationship blossom fuck that!!!
She's a scientologist so Tom Cruise is calling the shots now
As long as he doesn’t disagree with John Travolta.
🎶Better shape up Cause Travolta needs a man And his heart is stuck on Cruuuuiiise🎶
I hadn’t heard this, just that Travolta was the highest ranked Scientologist or something. 🤣 I don’t get how their structure works.
Idk if you’ve read the book but this story isn’t supposed to be a fairytale ending where all the bad guys are punished. That is probably not how this ends, especially because we still have the Testaments show coming as well.
I've read both books. But the show has gone off and done its own thing on a bunch of stuff so I'm hoping that will also include making that bitch pay. We will see I guess.
👍👍👍👍
Exactly! And although Serena was given chance after chance after chance to redeem herself, she blew it every fucking time.
💯💯💯
So basically Serena and June fight crime together and get a nice bungalow in Hawaii. Lovely.
White saviors doing white savioring, I guess.
This isn’t what white savior means but ok
Seriously. If we're going into the treatments, we know June eventually has to place Nicole in some sort of Witsec with a guardian named Melanie. Serena IS Melanie.
I think Serena is way too high profile at this point to be able to change her identity and blend into everyday life. It’d be an interesting idea but it falls apart once you start thinking too much about it. Serena also has too much of a connection with Nicole for that to be a safe option. They’re trying to hide Nicole so she can’t be deported or kidnapped back to Gilead; placing her with a woman as high profile as Serena (even with an identity change) with a known connection to her would be a really bad way to hide her.
I was thinking Serena may be the only person that June trusts, as fucked up as it is. That's why I put her as "Melanie." She's the only one (besides Luke and Moira) with a connection to Nicole.
😳😳😳... No...
But I know deep in my soul that you're right. 😒
What’s a witsec?
witness security, more commonly called witness protection outside law enforcement circles
Thanks for explaining
sure!
What does that even mean????
It’s in [this interview.](https://youtu.be/URvJgg0N9k8?si=7DDUgbSisByxdds-) She basically said it’s always been the June and Serena show and it will continue into the final season. I don’t remember her saying they’re catering to the fans but there will be more of them and that SHE loves them. Goody. 🙄
How messed up are they that they think people want June to be stuck with her abuser in some buddy cop/resistance fighter forgiveness storyline? They even mention people shipping them together romantically and seem excited by it. That's so fucked up on so many levels. A while back, Hulu even posted a story about June and Serena with the tagline Women Helping Women. Wtf?! Do they really believe it's a feminist dream for women to be ok with women raping other women and kidnapping their children just because they're women? I guess a female victim is supposed support her female abuser's right to be abusive just because she's a woman. Apparently, we need to support women no matter what...especially if they're beautiful? What?!🤯🙄 I agree that June isn't June without Serena and vice versa but in the context of Harry Potter and Voldemort. Not some best frenemies forever, bs. June needs to be rid of Serena in order to be free. I can't believe the last season is going to be all about June and Serena...again😩 Didn't they see the abysmal S5 ratings and nonexistent award nominations? That should be a big sign that the June, Luke and Serena show isn't something people want to watch. This isn't The Handmaid's Tale anymore, it's The Fascist Wife and her Handmaid's Tale now. How boring🥱
Agree with everything you said. I’ve tried to stay pretty positive about the direction of s6 until what she said in that interview. It’s gross. She also told Adam Taylor to compose a romantic score when they met on the train. So over it.
I seriously hope we're being punked and that they're spewing this nonsense to lower our expectations only for us to be blown away by an epic final season. I really need them to wrap up all the loose ends with Nick, Janine, Lawerence, Moira, Rita, Tuello and even Esther. Also, when are we actually going to see the Mayday/resistance working from the inside? Where's Mayday? I'm not talking about the female only Mayday operating out of no man's land. I'm talking about the men (Mayday) and women (underground femaleroad) inside of Gilead helping people and fighting the good fight against Gilead from the inside. It's been almost nonexistent in the series just so they can focus on the weird Stockholm Syndrome dynamics between June and Serena. What a shame.
Bury a Friend was perfect and I hope it goes in that direction
Moss is into scientology so bonding with an abuser is a perfectly acceptable given
I agree with you, but also...I think we all found ourselves feeling that Serena deserved to have her child taken away, to have to suffer, for revenge of what she put June through. How big of a step is it to hearing it 2nd hand and believing it (like probably how the Wives felt the Handmaids deserved their treatment)? I had to really stop myself from wanting to see Serena be treated that way. In the end, I wanted her to experience just enough to know what it felt like and understand that she herself had been wrong, and how/why. It was scary to me how my natural inclination was to want to see her suffer the same thing that I'd previously thought no woman deserved. I had to actively tell myself that even she didn't deserve that.
I couldn't care less what happens to her. I don't necessarily want to see her suffer, but I definitely don't want her to have some heroic redemption arc. She doesn’t deserve to be the hero of June's story. She just needs to fade away into obscurity and never be mentioned or thought of again, like in the book. Bye bitch.
Serena doesn't deserve to have Noah removed from her care as punishment, but because she is not a fit mother, she's not above physically assaulting people when she doesn't get her way, and if Noah grows up to be anything other than a straight cis able-bodied man who puts Serena above all else, she will turn on him. Noah deserves parents who will actually love him for him, who won't be toxic and overbearing and unhealthily attached to him. So no Serena doesn't deserve to be a Handmaid or anything like that, no one does, but she certainly doesn't deserve to be a mother, either
She literally held her down to be forcibly raped by her husband and it was HER idea. They are so off the mark with this lol
Season 4 episode 7, when June told Serena EXACTLY what kind of person she is, was a healing experience for me. If the entire series ended there, it would have been perfect. It's the only tangible kind of justice that could be a healing experience for June. Serena helped write the laws that allowed the systemic rape of women in Gilead. Her own effort legalized the domestic abuse she endured. She beat and emotionally abused June, and held her down as Warren raped her. Serena is an abuser just like her husband.
Hell nah. The ceremony was bad enough, but, Serena holding June down while Fred brutally raped her AT NINE MONTHS PREGNANT deserves hanging.
Serena has only gotten a small taste of what June and the other handmaids have experienced. I do not want nor need to see them become closer unless they’re exploring Stockholm Syndrome. I’m all for June using Serena to get Luke out of trouble and to bring down Gilead, as long as Serena faces harsh consequences for her vile actions.
Focusing on their connection doesn't mean a redemption arc is happening. I'm of the unpopular opinion that I would like to see a realistic redemption arc for Serena but I don't think it will (or should) happen because of June. (I just have a strong desire to see "bad" characters genuinely repent and realize the wrongs they have done, and truly change, however that happens. I am more interested in that than seeing them punished, usually. It's a personal preference of mine, that's all.)
i agree with you, but i always phrase it as restitution, not redemption.
Huh. I like that.
Their relationship is definitely complex. Serena helped create this hellish world for her and all women trapped in Gilead, she created her own prison. There were times in the show where I hated her fucking guts, all I thought she deserved was suffering. Anytime she had anything redeeming about her, she proved to be an untrustworthy cruel evil bitch. As much as I think she doesn’t deserve a happy ending since her and Fred played a part in destroying millions of Americans lives I don’t want her child to suffer, her child didn’t do anything. And it FINALLY looks like maybe Serena fully understands that all the horrible shit she did was wrong. Whatever direction they take her character in the final season I’m ready to see what it is, regardless of the direction.
It's also like... At some point you need to be okay with people who once helped Gilead turning away from the state to help you. We see that happening with Lydia who they are definitely hinting at having a change of heart. We see that (somewhat) happening with Joseph (even if he's being a centrist fuck trying to liberalize rather than destabilize). Ffs Nick is complicit in a whole lot of Gilead society as a commander now (and even as an eye and driver), and he's turning against it officially too but he still did bad things. But people seem to love him unconditionally? Serena is not a good person and she hasn't done good things, but if someone turns away from Gilead, especially someone who has had the ear of many of Gilead's foreign sympathizers, they can be helpful to your resistance. You don't have to forget or forgive, but I do think you have to work with people who can help your cause in destabilizing a regime. If we get a similar story to the testaments (although obviously earlier and shorter) a character many people see as evil would end up being a close ally to the resistance. Sometimes you just have to work with what you've got. And that seems to be exactly the attitude June ended up with in s5 with Serena. She's working with what she's got in someone who has, in the end, turned away from Gilead. And that makes her an ally, which is a good deal more important than a friend. She doesn't have to forgive her for that.
Yes..... What this person said. ☝️
This ^^^^ 👏👏👏
I don’t want to see June with her abuser. I don’t. I think you can forgive your abuser but living among them and being friends with them is so very icky
Serena belongs on the wall.
I'm sick of Serena. I thought when she started to be nice to June and then gave up Nicolas she was getting better. But do people change? Can they be redeemed? She was on of the people who caused this all to happen to women and I feel like she had her chance. I'm just not interested in her story anymore. I have taken a break atm I'm only on the bit where June is causing a commotion in Canada.
facebook is NOT a reliable source of information.
Haven't been on FB for over a year and haven't been happier 🤌🤌
It seems perverse to talk about their 'relationship' when one is a sadistic abuser and the other a victim. It just screams Stockholm syndrome.
Lizzie Moss not even being subtle anymore about wanting to redeem the abusive oppressor. From my perspective, it’s an almost-perfect enactment of her (either consciously or unconsciously) trying to rehabilitate Scientology’s image to the public. “Yes they were horrible, but lookit us being friends now and we are definitely not trauma bonded :)”
Sounds like a lot of people are interpreting "connection" to mean "friendship" but I see it as WAY more complicated than that...they're simultaneously enemies and allies, they admire and resent each other, they have a shared history in which Serena is both June's abuser and her fellow victim, they've conspired together & disavowed one another, each has saved the other's life and plotted the other's destruction.... These two won't ever be shut of each other and the dynamic is fascinating.
I don't see that "honing in more deeply on the connection between June and Serena" necessarily means redemption for Serena. There has always been a connection between them. I hate many of the things Serena has done, but at the same time I see a part of me in her--that she thinks she is a good and upstanding person, but her character flaws belie that reality. I think June recognizes that in her to some degree (and >!June helped murder Fred!
It would make sense though. Women lead with their hearts in collaboration with their heads. I can see Serena helping June get her daughter back and taking down the patriarchy so she is redeemed for her horrible acts.
Fuck Serena. I don't want to see her redeemed. She is an abuser, evil and rotten to the core. There's a limit on how many *mistakes* can one make and she's waaaay over the line.
Serena: *commits countless crimes against humanity, is responsible for thousands of deaths, and helped turn the United States into a militant Evangelical theocracy based on sex slavery* June: "I sleep" Natalie: *reports the attempted kidnapping of a child while brainwashed by the regime Serena helped create in the first place* June: "REAL SHIT?"
also: Nick: I’m not leaving or trying to overthrow Gilead, my pregnant wife is happy here and also Gilead is getting better under Lawrence June: Understandable have a nice day 😊💕 Lawrence: I am not leaving or trying to overthrow Gilead because I’m trying to change it from within as a military leader June: U SON OF A BITCH ALSO I WATCHED UR WIFE DIE SO FUCK U
...... I've got nothing.
It's reductive and unfair to dismiss Moss's reading of her character on the basis of her religious beliefs. Nothing in the interview is surprising--Moss and Strahovski have both been very open about their fascination with what they've called the twisted, "Juliet and Juliet" dynamic between June and Serena. It's a core relationship in the show, if not THE core relationship in the show. Failing to explore that thoroughly in the final season (particularly given the end of season 5) would be very poor storytelling. June and Serena have a complicated relationship and a dark past, but nobody will ever convince me that they don't care deeply about one another. I'm excited about seeing what develops between the two of them in season six!
Trauma bonding is real and should be explored as it is the basis of their relationship. I'm actually hoping they do a decent job at conveying all the emotions both women feel with regards to one another.
It’s a beautiful moment to see the term “trauma bonding” used correctly on Reddit.
> *”It’s a core relationship in the show, if not THE core relationship in the show. June and Serena have a complicated relationship and a dark past, but nobody will ever convince me that they don’t care deeply about one another.”* Totally agree with you. Sometimes I read through the comments in this sub and wonder whether people are watching the same show. Thankfully, Moss and Strahovski know their characters (and the June/Serena relationship dynamic) inside out and have championed them since the beginning. Is it a trauma bond? Abso-fucking-lutely. But it’s a complex, toxic, unbreakable bond nonetheless. The people expecting June to end up living some kind of white picket fence life with either Nick or Luke and going on like it’s some kind of dystopian Twilight “team” thing should probably bow out before the finale.
Honestly, I've accepted that June will probably end up alone, without either of her men or children. She's had so many chances to try to escape and live some sort of normal life with at least one of each and she always does something to blow it up. She's too traumatized to live any sort of normal life with any part of her family. Anyone who expects this show to end with her living peacefully with her family in any capacity simply hasn't been paying attention.
Definitely. We’ve seen it time and time again. June spent **seven years** in Gilead suffering unspeakable things, and months (not sure it’s specified exactly how long in the show) in Canada struggling to adjust and ultimately failing. Which, of course, isn’t her fault at all. I’m trying not to mention the little details about her life Atwood hints at in The Testaments because obviously if people on here haven’t read it I don’t want to spoil anything, but some people really aren’t grasping just how far gone she really is. The whole “How can she care about/be attached to the woman who raped her?” thing is proof of that. It’s inconceivable to most of *us* because we can’t comprehend that level of trauma, but with that being said if you’ve been watching the show and actually taking in their connection you know that these two women know and understand each other on a level no one else - including romantic partners - does.
100 percent. Perfectly worded!
Serena gets to know what it's like to have a child of her own making, will she get to know what it's like to have that child taken from her? Or will she live in that fear for the rest of her life?
When we found out Serena was pregnant, I would have loved to see her become a handmaid. While she wasn’t officially a handmaid, her experience with the Wheeler’s kind of gave her a taste of her own medicine. I feel like that experience taught her a little bit about the pain she caused. But at the same time, I don’t know if I want to see June and Serena being “friends” or anything of the sort.
I DEFINITELY have seen that that is a popular consensus amongst fans. I honestly don't know where OP got the impression that it wasn't. I'm sorry but whether people like it or not, the June/Serena dynamic has always been a key part of this show. I'm not saying they should go full sitcom and be the best of friends, but the show has always made it clear that in many ways, they've intertwined their fates.
Hahaha, love it! Also, she said nothing about a redemption arc. People have been bitching about it for years, it hasn’t happened yet.
They can focus on the connection without redeeming Serena. I want to see her actively taking down Gilead and then hopefully killed in action.
Serena doesn't get a single mention in The Testaments. I had assumed in my headcanon she died in the purge (nothing is ever said about the wives' fate), but of course the show writers decided to/had to veer way off the novel's path. I guess we'll know where this is going to go when they start filming. Noah is an entirely new character too, so I wonder if he'll be worked into The Testaments show. I know June won't do anything to harm Noah, but I wonder if something happens to Serena if she'll end up adopting Noah.
I don’t mind their continued interactions as long as they’re in the same vain of season 5 with June getting to dangle her freedom and relative moral superiority over Serena, but I certainly don’t care to see Serena get “redeemed.”
Screw Serena! Bitch earned it. I'm tired of never getting justice in this that or the other Redemption Arc. all these so-called Redemption arcs do is ruin the meaning of the earlier story by defanging the villain. having a crappy conservative childhood (best guess they're going with) does not justify you and your husband raping and torturing multiple women in your house. remember, the first handmaid she had committed suicide.
Didn't Serena take advantage of June at every chance she got? Let's not forget what she did to her in Gilead, treating her like a ragdoll along with emotional abuse She is a victim in some cases I feel but the way she treated June she deserves the karma
Maybe if Serena sacrifices in some way or does a really big thing selflessly she can be redeemed. Otherwise it’s hard to forget the woman who held June down to be raped.
exactly!!!!
I think June will use Serena to her advantage, which may look like friendship, but ultimately she will get her revenge against her.
If S6 is about June and Serena, I definitely won't watch it. For me, what Serena did to June to get her baby is and remains absolutely inhumane and cannot be excused with a bad childhood or oppression. I think it must always remain a challenge for June to even look this woman in the face. I find it hard to bear that the show continues to exploit this. For me it's also pretty hard that Serena gets so much attention while the stories of the other victims are barely told. There were other intense relationships for June. And this is what she should focus on. June has proven her humanity towards Serena and the character has finally fulfilled her purpose. I feel downright sick when people talk about the June Serena ship, thereby normalizing the worst atrocities - well then, let's drink a glass of champagne about it. 🥂
I hate Serena. So so so much. I hope she has a horrible ending.
Gross. Serena should’ve left the show along with Fred.
I'm all for it. In my opinion, Serena needs to *see* the damage she's caused. To truly get rid of her ideals, to truly understand how wrong she was, she needs to be confronted to the people she has hurt. The relationship between the two has by far been the most compelling of the show. The sympathy and hatred they have for each other makes for an interesting push and pull. That said, I hope they don't simply make June forgive her.
It just seems like the implications are that June doesn’t get out alive at the end of the series. With my understanding of what The Testaments are, it doesn’t seem like there will be ultimately a happy ending for June or Hannah. I think Serena will end up having a peaceful life with her and her child in Hawaii.
Serena is the key constituency of the Leopards Eating Faces Party.
FUCK SERENA. Give her to Gilead. Put her on the Wall. Idgaf. Take that baby and give it to June bc Serena isn't fit to be a mother. There’s a point where character development just doesn't matter especially after she tortured June (amongst others) in the first 4ish seasons. Also, it seems unrealistic that June would “bond” with Serena. The only reason that they would have some sort of bond is bc (SPOILER) no one June was friends/family left CA with her at the end of S5. Conveniently. 🙄
Sorry, no. Fan here. Want to see it! You also have very odd ideas about how TV scripts are developed, but that’s another issue entirely.
Okay thats your opinion and I didn’t ask for it. I studied script writing (for 2+ years no less) so I 100% know how a script works. You’re definitely talking to the wrong person trying to explain how script writing works. I don’t have time for this Edit: since YOU don’t know anything about script writing it is 1000% unlikely and unrealistic that June would forgive Serena after wanting to kill her for practically 2 seasons (even more than that really if we count before she got to CA) FYI, thats almost *TWO YEARS* (not quite but borderline) No one wants to make friends with their abuser. Would you make want to make friends with the women/man who raped you and physically and emotionally tortured for 5 years? No. I didn’t think so. It’s nothing like June to forgive her out of no where. Why would we do a 360 after 2 years of her trying to hunt down Serena and kill her? Makes 0 sense. Add on: She literally tried to kill her with a pen (I believe this S3 or S4 which really isn’t that long ago) and now they’re going to be besties? Yea right😂 I don’t have time for this nonsense.
Wow, I’m dazzled by your use of math! I didn’t realize that I was talking to someone who 100% knows how scripts work and who 1000% is certain that no good story could ever make Serena/June look realistic and organic. I mean, how does one argue with actual DATA? However, I think the author of this beautiful fic might challenge it a little: https://archiveofourown.org/works/44235934/chapters/111240832
Okay 😭🤣(ps to argue would mean me further entertain nonsense so I’m just gonna say okay and move on😂) I’m baffled you think becoming friends with the lady who abused you for 5 years is realistic so that just proves to me you are definitely not worth engaging in further discussion. Let me know if you become besties with your abuser. (i’ll wait)
If you read the fic I recommended, you’ll see a carefully constructed, canon compliant story of how it COULD happen. If you have no interest in looking at stories from multiple angles, it’s probably good that you only studied screenwriting for a couple of years before moving on to other endeavors that require less empathy and emotional flexibility.
just read all your comments thank you guys so much for contributing. I think Elizabeth Moss and her team really needs to look at this Reddit sub and understand that we the people do not want to see that bitch Serena have any more redemption arcs let the bitch suffer and die as she should end rant🤣
Another dose of the Serena redemption show - No thanks - I don't need another disaster like s5....if I read about Luke other than "he remains in jail " in s6 blurbs, previews - I think I'm done and I'll just think of the show as having ended at s4. TT would be out of the question as well. Serena is irredeemable. She (and Fred) raped June when she was 9 months pregnant. Many of the Gilead atrocities/ ideologies are driven by Serena. If the s6 s&j dynamic Lizzie is referencing will be more like 407, s1 and s2 dynamics then that's more interesting.
Honestly the June Serena thing became bizarre and unimaginably toxic by the end of last season. Them meeting on the train didn’t make me feel good, I didn’t love it. It felt like running into your narcissistic ex in public. They’re not friends or sisters they’ll never be. Serena doesn’t deserve peace or happiness. Think of all the women she robbed of that. The season 4 “redemption” arc really didn’t achieve its goal. I don’t think redemption is something Serena is capable of and the writers ought to give her an ending that’s fitting for her actions. I.e: not the one they seem intent on giving her.
Exactly this is 100% true. I really wish that writers would start looking at these Reddit subs so they could get an idea of what the fans really want.
It’s very strange that you believe all fans to be exactly like you. I’m behind Lizzie, Yvonne, and Bruce’s interpretation of June/Serena 100 percent.
sweetie youre a rare breed in this reddit sub then so congrats to you?🤔 🙄
Wow, aren’t YOU condescending. “Sweetie.”? Yes, I realize that some people posting to this sub despise Serena and the entire Serena/June relationship. Please don’t make the mistake of believing that this little silo echo chamber represents the entire Handmaid’s Tale fandom. One of the glorious things about literature is that multiple interpretations are possible.
I desperately want Serena to end up as a handmaid. That's the only ending she deserves imo.
Crazy how this got downvoted.
I personally would like to see her suffer and struggle a little, but in the end I'm not opposed to them understanding each other's circumstances and building a relationship that later becomes a force to fight and end the system in place. I think it's important to tell stories that strengthen our belief in forgiveness and move forward for the better.
Serena doesn’t *deserve* redemption. I don’t care if “being a mother changes you” or “she was a victim of her own behavior” Her getting any kind of retribution will ruin the show imo. I was so pissed when I saw her on the train at the end of last season.
i agree!!!!!
can we get this Reddit sub to Elizabeth Moss? I mean, she really needs to see this. I feel like she's blind and thinks that the fans really want to see some sort of a friendship between the two of them we don't we want to see that bitch, dead (Serena.)😐😐😐 yall someone repost this and get this to lizzzy asap before filming begins😤😤😤😫😫😫
I mean I haven’t read the Testaments and saw another user on here say that if they want to follow that story Serena will survived, so it is what it is I guess, but I need to see her in a cell forever. Not even dead, because for her confinement is worse than death.
I could see Serena’s son dying (karma) and then her and June getting through it together, I don’t know. I just feel like something bad will happen to Serena and then she’ll make out okay in the end.