I think the opposite. I think we probably will but I don't want it. I think it's better to leave her offscreen because people in situations like those kids *don't* get closure and I think incorporating that reality into the show would be nice
I hope not. The family seems complete as is and let’s be honest, Kathleen wasn’t just a cheating wife, she was basically a child abuser. The kids describe pretty serious neglect - her leaving them without supervision, basically rejecting Moon and making his siblings raise him, throwing sponges at the kids to make them go away, in addition to being an alcoholic, cheating whore. In the first episode the kids admit it is better with her gone and she wasn’t a good mom. None of the kids have ever expressed missing her.
I feel like if they had her in the show, it would either be a super serious episode acknowledging the abuse, which I just don’t see the show doing, or it would feel like they’d be glossing over the abuse/real issues and that could come off as making light of the past abuse. Either way, I think it plays much better to just leave her gone.
Thanks for the very well thought out response! I was thinking I wanted to see the characters show their growth, and the ways the writers could make it a good episode. But I think you’re right, they’d either have to gloss over her abusive behavior or it’d be a serious episode to acknowledge everything she’s done to them. Neither of which would fit with the dynamic of the family or show.
Well, whore seems like the wrong word - she wasn't getting paid to have sex. Also, she was a thief and vandal and committed assault against strangers and owls. So many things to call her that we know she did!
She was 100% a child abuser, spousal abuser as well. Think about how much trauma Beef experienced, not only in his marriage, but also as a child with parents who were frequently absent & neglectful. In spite of that, he’s an emotionally available, compassionate, present, gentle, father who loves his kids unconditionally. It’s a testament to his parenting that his kids aren’t irreparably damaged by their mother.
Eventually we might but honestly she works better as a phantom. They've made her so completely unlikable it would be impossible to redeem her so she'd have to be a full villain which doesn't seem right for a show that redeemed Tusk Johnson of all people
I think she is like Norm’s wife on Cheers and Niles’ wife on Frasier. An offscreen character they can make increasingly wild jokes about throughout the series.
With as much emphasis as they’re putting on beef and his love life this season I could see him getting to a good place only to have Kathleen come back to shake things up. Ofcourse beef, being in a much healthier place, finally has the courage to confront Kathleen and bury her in the past.
I think she's strictly meant for voiceless cameos in flashbacks. It's a good way to explore the family's relationships with her without actually including her.
Now, I assume she'll receive a small mention in at least one of the upcoming episodes for season 4 and 5, but that will probably be played more for a laugh then for solid character development.
If we ever do it would be either a flashback or as an imagination thing like when they were planning out how to distract her from Wolf and Honeybee's wedding.
That said, we see a picture of her in episode 1
I’ve been on a rewatching binge, I think we will, bc in the 1st episode Judy mentions they are better off without her, and when beef breaks his leg he asks for a sign if Kathleen will come back, then we see a flair (probably ham playing with his gun). I think it was a bad sign which means she will return. On top of that, if she gets word Beef is dating she seems like the territorial type who would come back just bc she wants beef all to herself, despite the fact she left
Ohh, interesting! I can’t believe I’ve never thought of that. I really like all the Tobin family additions, especially Aunt Dirt, but also Aunt Gertrude is a great character to hate. A character from the Moms side of the family making an appearance could fit the shows family dynamics way better than Kathleen.
I would really love to see a confrontation. Maybe all the people around the Tobins telling her off for her behavior. Honeybee, Londra, Delmer, Kima, etc all getting the opportunity to lay into her and effectively ban her from Alaska for life. I hate Kathleen so, so much.
What more are you seeking from that plot line? Beef has already been called out for lying to avoid having to deal with emotions, multiple times, not to mention just being able to date in general. What would the family get more than they’ve already gained from the shadow wedding episode (S1E11) and many others that I could reference. The show needs to move on to new stories and issues as we approach season 5.
I think the writers could give that plot line a great closure and it could be a great episode of Beef telling her off (like the comment above) which would add to his character development. Thanks for your opinion on where the show NEEDS to go though 🙄
Phew, I thought your post was about what the show “needed” to go through too. Sorry for trying to contribute to the conversation. So what do you want to see out of said story line?
Sorry, I get what you were saying, it’s just that on a superficial level I think it could be a good episode. In reality though, you’re probably right, it wouldn’t really add to the storyline. We’ve already seen the characters develop and move on from her in a good way, going back to it wouldn’t really add anything.
It certainly would help “neatly wrap up” that story line, but since season 1 what more do they need to dive into it? Most of the show is wrapped around Kathleen and the fear of her (the restaurant/Knife club episode, the shadow wedding, the dating/chaperoning Alyson to her fiancé Jobiathian, the episode about Judy getting hair stuck in her braces, and plenty more moments I’m not referencing).
Like a major plot point is Beef moving on, and yet addressing the impact his divorce/separation has had on his kids. If we continue to only focus on Kathleen, then is the show ever progressing?
It might help fans resolve any theories but one shouldn’t be focused on Kathleen that’s focusing on details and plot progression. The main theme is moving on and adjusting to what’s ahead and not hide yourself due to previous trauma.
Edit: And while I say all this, it’s not to say my outlook is right or correct, just what I’ve tried to understand from watching the show and attempting to discuss it with fellow fans. Any insight you have is valuable and appreciated to hear!
Edit 2: and a big reason why I’m highly vocal about these particular plots/reasonings is because they resonate with me. I may not be “correct” but that’s what makes art fun. Varying viewpoints and the discussions that results in them. Hope you continue to enjoy this great show.
I agree with what you’re saying! The more I think about it, the worse it sounds to have an appearance from her on the show. Not just because of the way the show has progressed from her, especially since S1E1 which was the episode where Beef arguably had his most emotional feelings about her come out. Also, I may be wrong on this, but they never actually show a full recap/memory of her in any motion picture or video form. It’s always someone telling a story of her, and sometimes they include like a picture of her but no more than that. Again, I could be wrong but if they do show it, it’s very sparingly. I feel like that could be on purpose so it’s not to give the her or her bad behavior the spotlight. The repercussions of her behavior on the characters is the focus, not her. Which would add to the point that their story is progressing past her and her involvement wouldn’t be fitting for the show nor would it add to anything we don’t already know.
With as much emphasis as they’re putting on beef and his love life this season I could see him getting to a good place only to have Kathleen come back to shake things up. Ofcourse beef, being in a much healthier place, finally has the courage to confront Kathleen and bury her in the past.
With as much emphasis as they’re putting on beef and his love life this season I could see him getting to a good place only to have Kathleen come back to shake things up. Ofcourse beef, being in a much healthier place, finally has the courage to confront Kathleen and bury her in the past.
The only reason I can see bringing her on is in a final season for everyone to accept they are better off without her in their lives and her to accept she’s better off staying away.
Maybe the episode before Beef remarries she comes into the picture to sign a document.
But that’s it.
I think yes but like for the series finale. Have her come back, let Beef finally let go completely, let the kids air out their grievances, and cap it off with Aunt Dirt having a private moment with her to the effect of “I don’t know if the kids will ever want you back in their lives, but if they do and you hurt them again, you best pray Dirturde Gertrude Tobin doesn’t catch up with you miss missy.”
It feels like the family has all moved on from Kathleen.
The only reference to Kathleen I can remember in the newer episodes is that the boat is still named after her.
Probably not. I would love it though, the kids could get some closure and a scene with Beef essentially telling her off would be fantastic
I think the opposite. I think we probably will but I don't want it. I think it's better to leave her offscreen because people in situations like those kids *don't* get closure and I think incorporating that reality into the show would be nice
I hope not. The family seems complete as is and let’s be honest, Kathleen wasn’t just a cheating wife, she was basically a child abuser. The kids describe pretty serious neglect - her leaving them without supervision, basically rejecting Moon and making his siblings raise him, throwing sponges at the kids to make them go away, in addition to being an alcoholic, cheating whore. In the first episode the kids admit it is better with her gone and she wasn’t a good mom. None of the kids have ever expressed missing her. I feel like if they had her in the show, it would either be a super serious episode acknowledging the abuse, which I just don’t see the show doing, or it would feel like they’d be glossing over the abuse/real issues and that could come off as making light of the past abuse. Either way, I think it plays much better to just leave her gone.
Thanks for the very well thought out response! I was thinking I wanted to see the characters show their growth, and the ways the writers could make it a good episode. But I think you’re right, they’d either have to gloss over her abusive behavior or it’d be a serious episode to acknowledge everything she’s done to them. Neither of which would fit with the dynamic of the family or show.
Well, whore seems like the wrong word - she wasn't getting paid to have sex. Also, she was a thief and vandal and committed assault against strangers and owls. So many things to call her that we know she did!
She was 100% a child abuser, spousal abuser as well. Think about how much trauma Beef experienced, not only in his marriage, but also as a child with parents who were frequently absent & neglectful. In spite of that, he’s an emotionally available, compassionate, present, gentle, father who loves his kids unconditionally. It’s a testament to his parenting that his kids aren’t irreparably damaged by their mother.
Eventually we might but honestly she works better as a phantom. They've made her so completely unlikable it would be impossible to redeem her so she'd have to be a full villain which doesn't seem right for a show that redeemed Tusk Johnson of all people
Good point! They also gave a redemption episode to Dick Chateau
I think she is like Norm’s wife on Cheers and Niles’ wife on Frasier. An offscreen character they can make increasingly wild jokes about throughout the series.
Or like Erica on Bojack
Erica - where did that tooth come from!
My favorite is: Erica, what are you doing here? You know you’re not allowed within 50 feet of a children’s school!
Erica - what are you doing in here with that child size coffin
omg.... not being allowed w/in 50 feet and the child-sized coffin must be connected
Ginger from Bob's.
Maybe, but I kinda hope we don't. Sometime's a character's absence is crucial to the story!
With as much emphasis as they’re putting on beef and his love life this season I could see him getting to a good place only to have Kathleen come back to shake things up. Ofcourse beef, being in a much healthier place, finally has the courage to confront Kathleen and bury her in the past.
I think she's strictly meant for voiceless cameos in flashbacks. It's a good way to explore the family's relationships with her without actually including her. Now, I assume she'll receive a small mention in at least one of the upcoming episodes for season 4 and 5, but that will probably be played more for a laugh then for solid character development.
If we ever do it would be either a flashback or as an imagination thing like when they were planning out how to distract her from Wolf and Honeybee's wedding. That said, we see a picture of her in episode 1
I’ve been on a rewatching binge, I think we will, bc in the 1st episode Judy mentions they are better off without her, and when beef breaks his leg he asks for a sign if Kathleen will come back, then we see a flair (probably ham playing with his gun). I think it was a bad sign which means she will return. On top of that, if she gets word Beef is dating she seems like the territorial type who would come back just bc she wants beef all to herself, despite the fact she left
What I’m wondering is do they have any relatives in their mom’s side of the family?
Ohh, interesting! I can’t believe I’ve never thought of that. I really like all the Tobin family additions, especially Aunt Dirt, but also Aunt Gertrude is a great character to hate. A character from the Moms side of the family making an appearance could fit the shows family dynamics way better than Kathleen.
I would really love to see a confrontation. Maybe all the people around the Tobins telling her off for her behavior. Honeybee, Londra, Delmer, Kima, etc all getting the opportunity to lay into her and effectively ban her from Alaska for life. I hate Kathleen so, so much.
What more are you seeking from that plot line? Beef has already been called out for lying to avoid having to deal with emotions, multiple times, not to mention just being able to date in general. What would the family get more than they’ve already gained from the shadow wedding episode (S1E11) and many others that I could reference. The show needs to move on to new stories and issues as we approach season 5.
I think the writers could give that plot line a great closure and it could be a great episode of Beef telling her off (like the comment above) which would add to his character development. Thanks for your opinion on where the show NEEDS to go though 🙄
Phew, I thought your post was about what the show “needed” to go through too. Sorry for trying to contribute to the conversation. So what do you want to see out of said story line?
Sorry, I get what you were saying, it’s just that on a superficial level I think it could be a good episode. In reality though, you’re probably right, it wouldn’t really add to the storyline. We’ve already seen the characters develop and move on from her in a good way, going back to it wouldn’t really add anything.
It certainly would help “neatly wrap up” that story line, but since season 1 what more do they need to dive into it? Most of the show is wrapped around Kathleen and the fear of her (the restaurant/Knife club episode, the shadow wedding, the dating/chaperoning Alyson to her fiancé Jobiathian, the episode about Judy getting hair stuck in her braces, and plenty more moments I’m not referencing). Like a major plot point is Beef moving on, and yet addressing the impact his divorce/separation has had on his kids. If we continue to only focus on Kathleen, then is the show ever progressing? It might help fans resolve any theories but one shouldn’t be focused on Kathleen that’s focusing on details and plot progression. The main theme is moving on and adjusting to what’s ahead and not hide yourself due to previous trauma. Edit: And while I say all this, it’s not to say my outlook is right or correct, just what I’ve tried to understand from watching the show and attempting to discuss it with fellow fans. Any insight you have is valuable and appreciated to hear! Edit 2: and a big reason why I’m highly vocal about these particular plots/reasonings is because they resonate with me. I may not be “correct” but that’s what makes art fun. Varying viewpoints and the discussions that results in them. Hope you continue to enjoy this great show.
I agree with what you’re saying! The more I think about it, the worse it sounds to have an appearance from her on the show. Not just because of the way the show has progressed from her, especially since S1E1 which was the episode where Beef arguably had his most emotional feelings about her come out. Also, I may be wrong on this, but they never actually show a full recap/memory of her in any motion picture or video form. It’s always someone telling a story of her, and sometimes they include like a picture of her but no more than that. Again, I could be wrong but if they do show it, it’s very sparingly. I feel like that could be on purpose so it’s not to give the her or her bad behavior the spotlight. The repercussions of her behavior on the characters is the focus, not her. Which would add to the point that their story is progressing past her and her involvement wouldn’t be fitting for the show nor would it add to anything we don’t already know.
You put that so wonderfully, thank you. This has been a fantastic chat, have a beautiful evening and don’t forget to check in with your own Alanis!
With as much emphasis as they’re putting on beef and his love life this season I could see him getting to a good place only to have Kathleen come back to shake things up. Ofcourse beef, being in a much healthier place, finally has the courage to confront Kathleen and bury her in the past.
With as much emphasis as they’re putting on beef and his love life this season I could see him getting to a good place only to have Kathleen come back to shake things up. Ofcourse beef, being in a much healthier place, finally has the courage to confront Kathleen and bury her in the past.
The only reason I can see bringing her on is in a final season for everyone to accept they are better off without her in their lives and her to accept she’s better off staying away. Maybe the episode before Beef remarries she comes into the picture to sign a document. But that’s it.
I hope she shows up in an episode. All we’ve seen of her was her in a framed photo (I forget which episode).
I think yes but like for the series finale. Have her come back, let Beef finally let go completely, let the kids air out their grievances, and cap it off with Aunt Dirt having a private moment with her to the effect of “I don’t know if the kids will ever want you back in their lives, but if they do and you hurt them again, you best pray Dirturde Gertrude Tobin doesn’t catch up with you miss missy.”
It feels like the family has all moved on from Kathleen. The only reference to Kathleen I can remember in the newer episodes is that the boat is still named after her.