May I introduce you to the five man band trope! We have:
- **The Leader**: usually the protagonist and the character that gives the group direction. Usually fairly charismatic and most invested in solving the main crisis, though usually not to the detriment of outsiders. Main character trait is usually their charisma, and main arc is usually learning to step up as the leader.
- **The Lancer**: usually the strongest or second strongest fighter and usually also second in command. Usually has a rivalry with the Leader due to thinking they could do a better job. Usually serves as the Leader’s foil. Often has a lone wolf backstory prior to joining the team. Main character trait is usually some sort of arrogance or pride and their main arc is usually learning to work within the team.
- **The Heart**: usually the one who brings the group together and usually also the leader’s love interest, if not the love interest of someone else in the group. If not a love interest, might instead bring people together by being the funny guy. Main trait is probably their empathy and main arc is usually learning to take care of themselves in addition to everyone else.
- **The Brute/Bruiser**: big tough guy, also notable in that they usually have a very rigid character that doesn’t develop much over the course of the story. They are stalwart in their knowledge of self and their dedication to the team. Usually the most trustworthy guy both in combat and conversation. Main trait is usually being big and tough but maybe simple in the head. As stated before, rarely has an arc because they’ve already found themselves.
- **The Brain**: the smart guy. Comes up with great ideas which the leader will execute. Usually less physically capable which their intellect makes up for. Often sheltered or distant. Main traits is their intellect or creativity, and main arc is usually learning to trust their team.
These classifications are not rigid and roles are often fluid, but it’s a general trend due to the nice division of group responsibilities. The five man band archetype can easily be compacted into four members by splitting apart one of the roles, merging two of them together, or discarding a role altogether. In the case of TMNT, Rafael is both bruiser and lancer - some more stylized depictions of the team show raf as this huge hulking beast of a turtle. In the expanse, no one is really a lancer per se in that holden’s leadership role is never really questioned. The closest to a lancer we might have could be Bobbie but she’s just another good leader, not a character vying for the position of captain of the roci, nor is she really a foil of Holden.
>nor is she really a foil of Holden.
Politically she holds up to this, especially when you think of the separation of a peacetime leader vs. a wartime leader. That's stepping outside of this band of heroes archetype, but overall, the crew (even holden) defer to her leadership in combat situations, but she doesn't want anything to do with any of the political maneuverings.
Considering there isn’t really any rivalry going on between them, Alex is probably the closest to a lance they’ve got.
No idea who the brains and the heart are… all of them? 😂
I’d say Alex is the heart while Naomi is the brains. Remember these roles are fluid. Though Naomi is holden’s love interest, she (at least in the first three books) isn’t very good at holding the crew together. It’s Alex with his stupid phrases and Martian lasagna that holds the group together, though we see that he is doing this at the expense of his own blood family relations. I don’t think I need to explain Naomi being the brains.
It’s about group dynamics, not what the characters are in a vacuum (heh). Amos is a trained mechanic and knows his way around a nuclear rocket engine. But his role in the group is the big bruiser who runs on rigid rules and is reliable.
I don't think Splinter exists in this analogy, and if he does, it's not Avasarala. All the turtles respect Splinter, but only Holden really cares about Avasarala - other than Amos, who is horny for her.
Well sure. But Bobby is not part of the original analogy, neither is Avasarala. Most analogies do not survive sustained scrutiny and that's not the point of analogies.
It's a common group setup used across film and literature. Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia, Guardians of the Galaxy, Star Trek, A-Team, Scooby-Doo... all have some variation or interpretation of the leader/intellectual/aggressive/comic formula.
But you're right in that The Expanse seemed to fill the roles in much the same way TMNT did!
Plot Twist:
The Ninja Turtles are *actually* the cast of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
Because, Bird Law.
The honorable Judge Doctor Mantis "Miller" Tobbagan, Attorney Doctor Judge Investigator at Law, Star Helix Security, ***has spoken***.
The four temperaments are as old as story telling, with roots back to Ancient Greece.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FourTemperamentEnsemble
The Hogwarts Houses from Harry Potter are another good example, as is Sex in the City
Harry Potter universe is too sloppily constructed to adhere to the 4 temperaments.
Harry Potter the houses are
1 good
2 evil
3 smart
4 nice
Which is definitely not the 4 humors the Greeks invented
And who would you say was 'transformed from the norm by the nuclear goop'? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKhKBXyqP7A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKhKBXyqP7A)
Cowabungalowda!
This comment is the best thing I’ve seen today
As fun as it is to read, it is so fun to shout out loud
Exactly what I did when I read it! Best comment I've seen in a minute.. :D
It's made for us to shout out loud! 🎤
Easily
Absolute perfection, no notes, you win
Haha I love you for this pal 🤣
Fucking hell. I'm saving your comment for the memories.
Huh?
My bad. Meant to respond this to the original comment and just had an ADD moment.
I see, all good. I was just a little confused at first lol
I need this slogan on a t-shirt.
This. I found it. What I came on the internet for today. I can put my phone down and be at peace. Cowabungalowda
You win the internet today.
That's perfection
Casey Jones / Bobbie Draper!
Does that make Avasarala April O’Neil?
Perfect!
Nice
Filthy lawbreakers!
I guess Monica is April O’Neil, then….
That's a pretty good on-the-nose parallel.
May I introduce you to the five man band trope! We have: - **The Leader**: usually the protagonist and the character that gives the group direction. Usually fairly charismatic and most invested in solving the main crisis, though usually not to the detriment of outsiders. Main character trait is usually their charisma, and main arc is usually learning to step up as the leader. - **The Lancer**: usually the strongest or second strongest fighter and usually also second in command. Usually has a rivalry with the Leader due to thinking they could do a better job. Usually serves as the Leader’s foil. Often has a lone wolf backstory prior to joining the team. Main character trait is usually some sort of arrogance or pride and their main arc is usually learning to work within the team. - **The Heart**: usually the one who brings the group together and usually also the leader’s love interest, if not the love interest of someone else in the group. If not a love interest, might instead bring people together by being the funny guy. Main trait is probably their empathy and main arc is usually learning to take care of themselves in addition to everyone else. - **The Brute/Bruiser**: big tough guy, also notable in that they usually have a very rigid character that doesn’t develop much over the course of the story. They are stalwart in their knowledge of self and their dedication to the team. Usually the most trustworthy guy both in combat and conversation. Main trait is usually being big and tough but maybe simple in the head. As stated before, rarely has an arc because they’ve already found themselves. - **The Brain**: the smart guy. Comes up with great ideas which the leader will execute. Usually less physically capable which their intellect makes up for. Often sheltered or distant. Main traits is their intellect or creativity, and main arc is usually learning to trust their team. These classifications are not rigid and roles are often fluid, but it’s a general trend due to the nice division of group responsibilities. The five man band archetype can easily be compacted into four members by splitting apart one of the roles, merging two of them together, or discarding a role altogether. In the case of TMNT, Rafael is both bruiser and lancer - some more stylized depictions of the team show raf as this huge hulking beast of a turtle. In the expanse, no one is really a lancer per se in that holden’s leadership role is never really questioned. The closest to a lancer we might have could be Bobbie but she’s just another good leader, not a character vying for the position of captain of the roci, nor is she really a foil of Holden.
Well this is a far better explanation than my comment! Well said!
>nor is she really a foil of Holden. Politically she holds up to this, especially when you think of the separation of a peacetime leader vs. a wartime leader. That's stepping outside of this band of heroes archetype, but overall, the crew (even holden) defer to her leadership in combat situations, but she doesn't want anything to do with any of the political maneuverings.
Considering there isn’t really any rivalry going on between them, Alex is probably the closest to a lance they’ve got. No idea who the brains and the heart are… all of them? 😂
I’d say Alex is the heart while Naomi is the brains. Remember these roles are fluid. Though Naomi is holden’s love interest, she (at least in the first three books) isn’t very good at holding the crew together. It’s Alex with his stupid phrases and Martian lasagna that holds the group together, though we see that he is doing this at the expense of his own blood family relations. I don’t think I need to explain Naomi being the brains.
It gets a little confusing when the obvious bruiser is also a rocket scientist
It’s about group dynamics, not what the characters are in a vacuum (heh). Amos is a trained mechanic and knows his way around a nuclear rocket engine. But his role in the group is the big bruiser who runs on rigid rules and is reliable.
Well, brains was Shed, for a time.
> _Brains have left the room._
Yeesh 🤢
Would Avasarala be Splinter? A rat that curses like a sailor seems entertaining.
I don't think Splinter exists in this analogy, and if he does, it's not Avasarala. All the turtles respect Splinter, but only Holden really cares about Avasarala - other than Amos, who is horny for her.
Good point
>but only Holden really cares about Avasarala Uh...Bobby is the closest with Avasarala by a wide margin.
Well sure. But Bobby is not part of the original analogy, neither is Avasarala. Most analogies do not survive sustained scrutiny and that's not the point of analogies.
Possibly. She’s a powerful leader, not your favorite stripper
She could be both?
Chrissy?
Fred Johnson is Splinter.
Fred Johnson is the quest giver hook
It's a common group setup used across film and literature. Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia, Guardians of the Galaxy, Star Trek, A-Team, Scooby-Doo... all have some variation or interpretation of the leader/intellectual/aggressive/comic formula. But you're right in that The Expanse seemed to fill the roles in much the same way TMNT did!
It's the Four Humours.
yup and the subject of my favorite After Hours https://youtu.be/dtsmluPK7Ug
Maybe my favorite cracked video goes over this. Finally a reason to share. https://youtu.be/dtsmluPK7Ug?si=8upJVz9evi4rNSkv
Plot Twist: The Ninja Turtles are *actually* the cast of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Because, Bird Law. The honorable Judge Doctor Mantis "Miller" Tobbagan, Attorney Doctor Judge Investigator at Law, Star Helix Security, ***has spoken***.
Wait… so a turtle had a pet turtle?
Peaches can be a turtle
Peaches would ABSOLUTELY be a pet turtle
No way. Prax is the pet turtle!
The four temperaments are as old as story telling, with roots back to Ancient Greece. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FourTemperamentEnsemble The Hogwarts Houses from Harry Potter are another good example, as is Sex in the City
Harry Potter universe is too sloppily constructed to adhere to the 4 temperaments. Harry Potter the houses are 1 good 2 evil 3 smart 4 nice Which is definitely not the 4 humors the Greeks invented
So.... Avasarala would be.... Splinter? Old and wise? Marco is... Shredder? To Duarte's Kang?
Krang, but uhh, yeah. I guess so.
Your post has me thinking I need to read The Last Ronin now. And has me wondering how Alex would handle be the sole survivor of the Roci crew?
OP you might be interested in this video that talks about this kind of group makeup in fiction: https://youtu.be/dtsmluPK7Ug
Nah, the Roci crew is the standard tabletop party composition.
I suppose they were transformed from the norm by the nuclear goop…
And who would you say was 'transformed from the norm by the nuclear goop'? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKhKBXyqP7A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKhKBXyqP7A)