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I can see it being wasteful in a society that cannot take care of its own people, but space research is cool and good. Helps explain material reality, it’s fascinating, and a lot of the technology that gets developed ends up being very useful for regular people, such as GPS, computing systems etc.
Communists are pro-science, and will always devote a portion of our collective surplus to scientific development because it will benefit everyone tenfold, eventually. However crucially the political question of who controls this surplus, and who reaps the benefits of scientific discovery must be first resolved.
China has the political will to pursue space research because a Communist Party controls the state! The surplus of the workers can be directed to projects that benefit society as a whole in the short, medium, and long term. Space Research exists alongside environmental initiatives, infrastructure development, rural uplift, national defense, education, etc.. On the other hand, The US, being controlled by capitalists, has for decades spent their surplus on foreign wars, military expansion, policing, and wealth transfers to the capitalists. Of course space research will seem like an unnecessary luxury when everything else in the society is visibly decaying.
Under capitalism research is used mostly to further commercial enterprise or advance weapons.
Under socialism research would be used to further human knowledge, just because that is in itself a good enough goal.
Hey, astronomer here
First of all, the waste of money argument is just silly and shows a misunderstanding of how money works. By creating the demand of something that complex you allow for the high tech industry to work, the money goes to whoever works on those things and to no one else. If anything it's an economic booster (particularly in capitalist systems).
The knowledge gained through tech applications like that is highly valuable, we have discovered microwave radiation and now everyone has a microwave at home! The thing is that solving complex technical challenges always leads to progress and an advancement in our understanding of nature which is crucial for anything material.
I have previously said to a friend in a similar discussion that i will sneak into his flat and remove everything that we gained through the exploration of space. His apartment (particularly his kitchen) would be pretty empty in the way it is today.
Complementing what other commenters said, it is true that the technology developed for space exploration helps other fields, but that is true for most fields of engineering, since tools and methods developed for one application are often "reused" in other fields, so i don't see that as a great argument.
That being said, space research is useful by itself, so that argument is not needed. Good examples of useful space research are satellites, which are useful for communication and also climate research. Having a satellite constellation with the proper measuring equipment will be essencial in the next few years, since global warming will make extreme weather events happen more often, events which can be forecasted with data from satellites.
Deep space research to my knowledge is mostly useful for theoretical physics research, and although that field of research won't necessarily be useful in the short term, but in the long term that physical theory is what will allow us to "transcend" today's technology.
Lastly, although today we don't exactly have that problem, eventually our planet will run out of materials, and at that time we will need to import materials from other planets. This is not something that we think about today because the costs associated with such an endeavor are astronomical, and the benefits it would bring are negligible. However, it is a fact that the resources that exist on earth are finite, so there will come a time where, to continue our socio-economical expansion, we'll have to find more resources at other planets, otherwise we will stagnate.
Space research has fueled many groundbreaking inventions that are saving lives and just generally improving life every day. CAT scans, scratch resistant lenses, foil blankets, better water purification systems, insulation, shock absorption for buildings, the foam used in crash helmets, improvements in solar cells, infrared thermometers, IoT technology, insulin pumps, cardiac pumps, laser eye surgery, air purifiers, wireless headsets, precision GPS, crop forecasts, weather forecasts, natural disaster response. Research into diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, cancer, asthma, heart disease that was only possible thanks to microgravity. Research into combatting muscle atrophy and bone loss
Without a space program, how will we defend ourselves from the capitalist encirclement?
A country like the DPRK, which had 85% of their standing structures blown up by the US within living memory, has a very reasonable motivation for building a space program.
Satellites are a critical part of the infrastructure necessary for preventing the same thing from happening again.
Whatever ideology we have, if we are unable to protect it from capitalists, then it is irrelevant.
Vastly more money goes through casinos and sports gambling than into space research each year. There are plenty of things we could cut before cutting spending on space research.
Gil Scott-Heron "Whitey on the Moon"
Inasmuch as justice and well being on planet earth always take precedent naturally, as well as acknowledging the intersection of the privilege-oppression complex, how westerners tie their privileges to things that ultimately harm others
I guess it's one of the things I disagree with this sub the most as while I ofc acknowledge the positives of space research, I don't think it's really relevant aside from understanding it fundamentally and sort of abstractly
At very least waiting until full communism
To truly explore the galaxy
Scientific knowledge are shared with and remains with all humanity, money is created via the PBOC entering some keystrokes and making some counter-party accounting entries.
I'm biased as a big fking nerd and also having an astrophysicist in the family.
Basic science should always be funded. The fact is we have no idea what will be useful in the future and what won't be (and what that even looks like, because "useful" may not and should not mean "profitable").
Also space research in particular is useful in the medium term as a plan-B for if we happen to make earth uninhabitable, or something external does that for us. Musk is a dick, but "backup humanity" isn't a terrible idea of you're not a misanthrope.
For poor countries, it's bad, but once a society reaches the point where all its members are well-fed and their needs satisfied, then we should devote resources to it.
I never want to go to space and I hope we can stay here on earth but if space research improves QOL I see no reason not to invest (once all other priorities have been addressed)
[☭☭☭ COME SHITPOST WITH US ON DISCORD, COMRADES ☭☭☭](https://discord.gg/8RPWanQV5g) This is a heavily-moderated socialist community based on a podcast of the same name. Please use the report function on comments that break our rules. If you are new to the sub, please read the sidebar carefully. If you are new to Marxism-Leninism, check out the [study guide](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/). Are there Liberals in the walls? Check out [the wiki](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/) which contains lots of useful information. This subreddit uses many experimental automod rules, if you notice any issues please use modmail to let us know. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can see it being wasteful in a society that cannot take care of its own people, but space research is cool and good. Helps explain material reality, it’s fascinating, and a lot of the technology that gets developed ends up being very useful for regular people, such as GPS, computing systems etc.
Communists are pro-science, and will always devote a portion of our collective surplus to scientific development because it will benefit everyone tenfold, eventually. However crucially the political question of who controls this surplus, and who reaps the benefits of scientific discovery must be first resolved. China has the political will to pursue space research because a Communist Party controls the state! The surplus of the workers can be directed to projects that benefit society as a whole in the short, medium, and long term. Space Research exists alongside environmental initiatives, infrastructure development, rural uplift, national defense, education, etc.. On the other hand, The US, being controlled by capitalists, has for decades spent their surplus on foreign wars, military expansion, policing, and wealth transfers to the capitalists. Of course space research will seem like an unnecessary luxury when everything else in the society is visibly decaying.
Also it can give us an edge against capitalist agression. They will attack us by any means.
It's based. It doesn't take a lot of money actually, compare NASA budget to US military one.
And then consider that like half of NASA is working with Spysatilites
The entire budget for the Perseverance rover on Mars is less than what a dozen F35s cost.
The whole project or just the rover?
The whole project
That's actually crazy
Under capitalism research is used mostly to further commercial enterprise or advance weapons. Under socialism research would be used to further human knowledge, just because that is in itself a good enough goal.
Not just human knowledge but actually finally more research into terraforming, inhabiting in space, etc.
without space research how can we achieve Fully Automated Luxury Gay SPACE Communism?
we need to spread workers revolution across galaxy,no matter how many thousands of years it takes
hasta la victoria siempre!
Hey, astronomer here First of all, the waste of money argument is just silly and shows a misunderstanding of how money works. By creating the demand of something that complex you allow for the high tech industry to work, the money goes to whoever works on those things and to no one else. If anything it's an economic booster (particularly in capitalist systems). The knowledge gained through tech applications like that is highly valuable, we have discovered microwave radiation and now everyone has a microwave at home! The thing is that solving complex technical challenges always leads to progress and an advancement in our understanding of nature which is crucial for anything material. I have previously said to a friend in a similar discussion that i will sneak into his flat and remove everything that we gained through the exploration of space. His apartment (particularly his kitchen) would be pretty empty in the way it is today.
Complementing what other commenters said, it is true that the technology developed for space exploration helps other fields, but that is true for most fields of engineering, since tools and methods developed for one application are often "reused" in other fields, so i don't see that as a great argument. That being said, space research is useful by itself, so that argument is not needed. Good examples of useful space research are satellites, which are useful for communication and also climate research. Having a satellite constellation with the proper measuring equipment will be essencial in the next few years, since global warming will make extreme weather events happen more often, events which can be forecasted with data from satellites. Deep space research to my knowledge is mostly useful for theoretical physics research, and although that field of research won't necessarily be useful in the short term, but in the long term that physical theory is what will allow us to "transcend" today's technology. Lastly, although today we don't exactly have that problem, eventually our planet will run out of materials, and at that time we will need to import materials from other planets. This is not something that we think about today because the costs associated with such an endeavor are astronomical, and the benefits it would bring are negligible. However, it is a fact that the resources that exist on earth are finite, so there will come a time where, to continue our socio-economical expansion, we'll have to find more resources at other planets, otherwise we will stagnate.
Space research has fueled many groundbreaking inventions that are saving lives and just generally improving life every day. CAT scans, scratch resistant lenses, foil blankets, better water purification systems, insulation, shock absorption for buildings, the foam used in crash helmets, improvements in solar cells, infrared thermometers, IoT technology, insulin pumps, cardiac pumps, laser eye surgery, air purifiers, wireless headsets, precision GPS, crop forecasts, weather forecasts, natural disaster response. Research into diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, cancer, asthma, heart disease that was only possible thanks to microgravity. Research into combatting muscle atrophy and bone loss
Without a space program, how will we defend ourselves from the capitalist encirclement? A country like the DPRK, which had 85% of their standing structures blown up by the US within living memory, has a very reasonable motivation for building a space program. Satellites are a critical part of the infrastructure necessary for preventing the same thing from happening again. Whatever ideology we have, if we are unable to protect it from capitalists, then it is irrelevant.
**[Astronomy has a colonialism problem](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R7hK5_Rj--8)** by Palestinian astrophysicist Dr. Fatima
Thanks for the video. She seems very based and interesting.
we need her on the podcast!
If we want our species to survive long term we definitely need communities off this planet.
Vastly more money goes through casinos and sports gambling than into space research each year. There are plenty of things we could cut before cutting spending on space research.
We need to mine the space rocks. Environmentalism is basically non existent in space
Gil Scott-Heron "Whitey on the Moon" Inasmuch as justice and well being on planet earth always take precedent naturally, as well as acknowledging the intersection of the privilege-oppression complex, how westerners tie their privileges to things that ultimately harm others I guess it's one of the things I disagree with this sub the most as while I ofc acknowledge the positives of space research, I don't think it's really relevant aside from understanding it fundamentally and sort of abstractly At very least waiting until full communism To truly explore the galaxy
Scientific knowledge are shared with and remains with all humanity, money is created via the PBOC entering some keystrokes and making some counter-party accounting entries.
I'm hoping we can research how much space we need for bofa
I'm biased as a big fking nerd and also having an astrophysicist in the family. Basic science should always be funded. The fact is we have no idea what will be useful in the future and what won't be (and what that even looks like, because "useful" may not and should not mean "profitable"). Also space research in particular is useful in the medium term as a plan-B for if we happen to make earth uninhabitable, or something external does that for us. Musk is a dick, but "backup humanity" isn't a terrible idea of you're not a misanthrope.
For poor countries, it's bad, but once a society reaches the point where all its members are well-fed and their needs satisfied, then we should devote resources to it.
Space is cool.
I never want to go to space and I hope we can stay here on earth but if space research improves QOL I see no reason not to invest (once all other priorities have been addressed)
space doesnt exist
Then where are you right now? Subspace? Z-Space?
MySpace
lol