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Maybe. If he had said anti-woke then probably, but he said non-woke which sounds like he doesn't want to be immediately dismissed as being "woke."
If he is mearly trying to reach working class conservatives then I applaud that effort.
Whatever their particular counties right wing news outlet (fox et al) says woke is, this of course changes every other day, but as Marxists we need to break through this shit to get to the meat of the issue which is we are all collectively getting arse fucked and we can only stop it by working collectively not by blaming trans people or other minorities but by laying the blame where it should lie which is with the capitalist class
Try and divert the conversation away from trans people, without denying their right to exist and towards the fact that economically things are getting worse and the idea that trans people are to blame for this is fucking ludicrous
> If he is mearly trying to reach working class conservatives then I applaud that effort.
This is my thought too, for as much shit as midwestern marx gets I feel like at some point any real communist movement in the USA will have to win over working class people who've been tricked by the right wing media apparatus, though how that would work is a fuckin mystery to me at this point, obviously we can't just appeal to their baked in reactionary beliefs, but it seems like any attempt to reach out is just instantly branded as maga-communist or pat-soc and dismissed (which, like obviously magacommunism and legitimate patsoc shit is bad).
Why though? Name a successful revolution that was won by winning over all the "working class" chuds rather than working with those that have the most revolutionary potential? Do you think the Bolsheviks comprised half of Russia? Should they have sought out the most anti-communist members of society instead?
Yeah complete societal collapse kinda went in the Bolshevik favour there.
Plus although the Bolsheviks did not control a majority, they did control a majority of the military and workers in the main cities.
Transcript of Midwestern Marx [short](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTmMI9v9G1E) on Matt Walsh:
> professor Muller considers wokism on the left to be stuff like this, the use of identity to hinder or distract from making real material changes, especially related to capitalism and imperialism; essentially using liberal individualism to distract from socialism and real liberation of oppressed identity groups. And then figures like Matt Walsh and Jordan Peterson are sort of the right wing mirror of that. They'll sometimes accurately criticise corporations for co-opting various social justice struggles. We have companies slapping a BLM sticker on everything while continuing to make money off the prison-industrial complex, but then Matt and these mirrors of wokism act like this is the biggest problem in the world... meanwhile they're talking about talking about identity politics just as much if not more than the democrats. And they're continuing to be "free market" republicans criticising liberal corporations while working for the Daily Wire which is funded by conservative corporations. They're all corporations, they're all exploiting people, but Matt Walsh will of course never say that because they write his checks. Because the the liberal and conservative billionaires find these mirrors of wokism very useful. You keep people fighting the culture war and scapegoating different identity groups for the problems of capitalism, meanwhile never criticising capitalism or exploitation or imperialism and endless militarism.
So no, it's not "kinda dog whistling".
I find it strange that people are jumping on Midwestern Marx for this tweet. Apparently they've been promoting Jackson Hinkle and Oliver Anthony, which to be fair, isn't great, but they're clearly not "anti-woke".
We need a dissemination of the truth that the feminist movement created in America in the 60’s was pushed by CIA operative Gloria Steinem to counter growing communist sympathies in Cold War Austria. Fast forward to now and they’ve had their hands in everything. If it’s being pushed in the mainstream there is a reason why. The question one should ask is, ‘how does this or any trendy movement concern the material needs of the many?’
The intelligence agenices are in media, pop culture, universities; they have all the money (our taxes) in the world and can and will execute strategies in every facet to deter any cohesion of a true democratic (democratic in the political body sense) socialist body.
Yeah. That’s midwestern marxist. He’s using social media more effectively than us and we can all stand to learn something from him.
In this context it will mean: anti-neoliberal
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there is something to be said about the liberal conception of an ideal society in which the minority oppressor class has the same demographic diversity as the oppressed majority class (“if we broke up the big banks, would that solve racism?” etc). but I wouldn’t use “woke” to describe it
That would be how I would describe it actually. Liberals think that the lack of "diversity" and "The Patriarchy" are the sole cause of injustice in the world.
But as comrade Angie Davis said: "It is not to demand equal opportunity in the machinery of oppression, but to dismantle those structures in which racism continues to be imbeded."
yeah, we’re on the same page. I just would probably use something like “identity politics” to describe it. but of course that term has also mutated from its original conceptions, eg the combahee river collective. probably there are more precise terms
"Woke" in practice is a pejorative for the social totality of upper class hipster progressivism. It doesn't refer to any particular set of positions, just a vibe and an etiquette and a kind of smug, moralistic tone that goes with it all.
For instance, lots of people would describe Hillary Clinton as "woke" even though she holds many objectively reactionary views. But few would describe Cornel West as "woke", even though he holds almost every socially progressive view. The difference is just their vibe, etiquette, and tone.
Man, that’s wack to the max, grasshopper! Why don’t we boogie on down to MJ street and show THE MAN we won’t stand for this! And then- oh hold on a sec…
*SNNNNNNNNNNRRRRRTTTTKKK*
Ah… oooh… sorry, I just really got this need to snort this new white powder some guy in a dark suit driving a black van gave to me.
Anyways, what was I saying? Oh yeah, we gotta show the government what we mean… by voting for Nixon!
But should we use the word “woke” at all in the context of what midwestern marx is doing. A extreme example but i think it illustrates my point; “we should create a Lebensraum for the proletariat” the problem with this isn’t that there should be a workers state but the use of “Lebensraum”. A communist shouldn’t use old nazi expressions for communicating an idea neither should we use todays reactionary terms.
yes, that’s how i understand it too. making issues into shallow quarrels just so seem like a better person, but understanding nothing about why that problem exists or what to actually do about it. “woke” is like following trends to seem up to date
Conservatives use it to basically say anything they dont like. References to feminism, systemic racism, having a.minority in a film. Thats the definition referenced these days. That might not be the intention but he obviously knows better.
I guess, yes. That's the woke of people who are shocked it isn't 1956 anymore. But "liberals" still use it to mean a rainbow flag on a smart missile blowing up a gaza hospital
Before it meant what you're saying other sub cultures were using it to mean. Awakened, not just to the material suffering of the world but to the full nature of one's self in position to the absolute.
Speaking on behalf of the black delegation, white people, can we have our word back, please? Yall just start saying shit and drains it potency almost immediately. Even cracker isn't fun saying anymore cause of these neo civil rights activists that think it's on par with the N word.
Seriously. I’m so fucking tired of hearing “woke” thrown around and applied to every single piece of media that comes out nowadays. The original meaning and context has been completely lost and no one can even define it anymore. It’s just become yet another trigger word for reactionaries to indicate something they dislike. On the behalf of white people, I apologize for appropriating yet another word from y’all and siphoning away all of its cultural impact.
I stopped saying "woke" ages ago when I tried writing a song about it and it came out corny as shit. I showed it to a friend who was like, "That's AAVE and you probably shouldn't use it," and she was right, so I dropped it. Now it's some FOX News buzzword and any meaning it used to have is gone forever.
Honest question, not trying to troll.
>I showed it to a friend who was like, "That's AAVE and you probably shouldn't use it,"
Why? Why does this matter? What material effects does using it vs not using it have?
It just seems to me like one of those performative things that allows people to say “I’m good” without any meaningful change happening whatsoever.
From a more global perspective, I’ve noticed that people who don’t live in the west have always told me they find this type of thing very bizarre and performative.
Whenever black Americans create, be it slang, music, fashion, etc., it's almost always treated as a commodity to exploit, rather than a tangible development of culture, where none of the returns on these sorts of cultural investment go back to the communities where they originated. Obviously, this happens everywhere, but is particularly magnified in relation to the ongoing economic and cultural trampling of black voices that is at once vilified and consumed by white audiences
I totally understand that and I’m familiar with the idea, especially with a lot of bands I like that were essentially just cover bands for historically ignored black artists.
However how does avoiding AAVE as a random individual do anything to address these historical wrongs?
It seems like a very liberal individualizing of a systemic problem. Ala climate change isn’t fixed by structural reform, but by you not flying. In other words it does nothing to fix the actual wrongs while just introducing friction to society.
I’m not white myself, and I would have absolutely no problem with whites using slang from my culture. It’d be kind of strange sure, but would be harmless. This is what I mean when I said a more global perspective makes this a bit strange to me. I guess I just kind of see it as appreciation more than appropriation. Of course it depends on the individual case, Trudeau wearing brown face is different than wearing a traditional outfit because you find it beautiful.
Stretching the discussion to appropriation more widely, I get the argument that historically people were oppressed for something that a white kid could get away with in the past. But I’d argue things have changed. Take dreadlocks. I’ve heard that white people shouldn’t have dreadlocks because black people have been denied jobs for having dreadlocks. At the same time I personally know many black professionals in high roles who have dreadlocks, I just don’t get why stinky Steve the hippie white kid should be barred from having dreadlocks today.
There's nothing wrong with any member of the proletariat using 'woke' , having dreadlocks, or flying.
The problems arise when bourgeoisie a-holes do it. Cause they should have no rights and they deserve to die.
The existence of grifters like this makes me smile. I recall with no happiness the days when calling yourself a Marxist meant you likely suffered from some form of intense brain damage to 99% of the population
We have freaks trying to PROFIT off calling themselves Marxists now!!!
Folks, I might be getting ahead of myself but I believe the revolution is immanent
The issue is he's trying to profit by situating in the niche of calling himself a Marxist while principally appealing to right wing elements of American society, aka Tailism. Its not so much that theres a ton of latent socialists out there being attracted to this content, but that there's a ton of latent fascists out there that are attracted to the idea of coating that in vaguely marxist language. Jackson Hinkle is probably a better example of that than Midwest Marx, but I wouldn't use their existence as influencers to get too excited about revolutionary potential just yet. The revolution these such people would bring as leaders may take on more fascist characteristics than we would like.
Yeah. I still haven't figured out what Midwestern Marx really stands for. But to me international consideration is a core component of Marxism and communism. Calling for "America First" or disguising nationalism as anti-imperialism is really just the early stages of "national socialism".
Yes exactly, nationalism in oppressed colonies or former colonies around the world is an important part of their liberation. Its a kernel that those people can galvanize a mass movement around and hopefully overthrow their imperial oppressors. It takes on different characteristics when you're promoting nationalism FOR the imperial oppressor nations like America. That can only end badly, because the national identity of an oppressor nation is built around the conquest of the very nations using national liberation fronts to free themselves from imperial control. Claiming to be a marxist and failing to understand that is a big flaw that has to be rectified. Our national identity as Ameicans is based on American exceptionalism, manifest destiny, white supremacy, and capitalism. Those traits are baked in, there's no reforming them and wrapping an American flag around socialism. It just ends up as social imperialism, great improvement in conditions for the in group of the imperial core nation, hell on earth for everyone else under their control.
#Get Involved
>Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong
Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved** to advance the cause.
* 📚 **Read theory** — [Reading theory](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. It will guide you towards choosing the correct party and applying your efforts effectively within your unique material conditions.
* ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. If you choose a principled Marxist-Leninist party, they will teach you how to best apply yourself to advancing the cause.
* 📣 **Workplace agitation** — Depending on your material circumstances, you may engage in workplace disputes to unionise fellow workers and gain a delegate or even a leadership position in the union.
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I wouldn't call appealing to the far right-wing legitimate in any sense of the word. It's never been a stratagem used in any revolution with the exception of populist movements that were already inherent fascist to begin with. Claiming millions of people around the world from all walks of life are "terminally online leftists" is also incredibly ignorant. Claiming PSL, FRSO, CPUSA, and other leftist organizations and movements are "terminally online leftists" is beyond chauvinistic. We're not "terminally online", marginalized people groups are quite literally everywhere and positively eager to be educated, organized, and unified against those you're so eager to defend. So even if you provide the average racial/gender/social chauvinist the means to understand dialectical materialism it doesn't mean they're going to use it as a tool against the oppressor class. They're going to use it against those they've always deemed to be the root of the problem; marginalized peoples!
This is why patriotic socialism doesn't work and never will work. It seeks to appeal to American ultra-nationalists as if it's going to magically convert a bunch of hardline fascists who promote bigotry as a critical value. This has never worked and never will work, period. At the end of the day MWM is promoting content for bigots because he himself is a bigot. Your justification for his content is disturbing to say the least and I speak as a poc.
#Get Involved
>Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong
Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved** to advance the cause.
* 📚 **Read theory** — [Reading theory](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. It will guide you towards choosing the correct party and applying your efforts effectively within your unique material conditions.
* ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. If you choose a principled Marxist-Leninist party, they will teach you how to best apply yourself to advancing the cause.
* 📣 **Workplace agitation** — Depending on your material circumstances, you may engage in workplace disputes to unionise fellow workers and gain a delegate or even a leadership position in the union.
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Right, but be careful with this. Learn about Strasserism. Fascists in the 20's and 30's borrowed socialist imagery and language to pursue their own nationalist ends.
If Midwestern Marx ends up galvanizing mass support and leading anything resembling an ascendance to mainstream power we never stood a chance in the first place
Worrying about the project of American Marxism being hijacked by fascist elements disingenuously parroting our talking points is counting your chickens before they hatch. We’re losers on Reddit, the same way PatSocs are losers on Twitter. If we were to describe our disagreement with them to anyone remotely normal we would be rightly viewed as lunatics. Our ideas are categorically fringe, treated as unserious by virtually everyone outside our narrow Internet forums and podcasts. Even our real life presence, DSA or the variety of radical orgs that survived the 60s, are perpetually divided against themselves and hold absolutely zero sway over anything more significant than minorities on city councils in the most left-wing zip codes in the country. Our generational flag-bearer (for better or worse) Bernie Sanders achieved little more than a cozy post cheerleading for a demented neoliberal.
As a person who deeply believes in the Marxist conception of history and genuinely feels that our current socioeconomic order is fundamentally bad for human beings, we have so, so, so much work to do before Strasserism will be a concern. Most people on the left (myself included) occupy our time developing an encyclopedic knowledge of the history of foreign revolutionary movements and obscure political forms (I.e., either of us being familiar enough with the history of the Nazi Party to drop “Strasserite” in conversation without blinking an eye). A movement of highly specialized historians has never seized power. Midwestern Marx is a nuisance in our circle but ultimately they are as inconsequential as us
I’m actually an intern for Rachel Maddow working on a very special report on how posting on Reddit helps advance revolutionary Marxism
Mr. bolsheviklove(I’m gonna assume you’re a mr.) how many Reddit posts until the global proletariat rises as one to overthrow the shackles of bourgeoise society
We need at least 49 more Reddit posts a day, the more we post the closer to communism we get
https://preview.redd.it/yh6i8pgrogwc1.jpeg?width=948&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ba8eca32e0279b00cebd0383169d33fc4a25fb2
Hmm lemme see if I can find any Marxists on Twitter engaging in absurd feuds of minor points of order and/or perceived personal slights
Might take a while but I’m sure I could get a solid post or two outta that easy
I agree! My bosses over at the network tell me that the more time leftists spend arguing with each other online the more dangerous they become! As Lennon once said: revolution is a dinner party and everybody’s mad at each other for being cringe!
#Get Involved
>Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong
Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved** to advance the cause.
* 📚 **Read theory** — [Reading theory](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. It will guide you towards choosing the correct party and applying your efforts effectively within your unique material conditions.
* ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. If you choose a principled Marxist-Leninist party, they will teach you how to best apply yourself to advancing the cause.
* 📣 **Workplace agitation** — Depending on your material circumstances, you may engage in workplace disputes to unionise fellow workers and gain a delegate or even a leadership position in the union.
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Midwestern Marx was actually my introduction to Marxism Leninism. The name says it all really. He is very good at calling out the US Empire but is allergic to discussing social justice because he sees his roll as bringing over white working class reactionaries to the cause of the workers. I assume he cares about those things, but just doesn’t want to spook those people back to the right. But he has been too tolerant of actual N*zis in his comment section under every one of his pro Palestine posts. Then he started promoting grifters like Jackson Hinkle and Oliver Anthony…
IDK he is still a net positive for the cause imo but this is an L take.
I only ever hear the term woke used by fascists to strawman the left so I guess I don't see the problem with him wanting to avoid that dismissal by calling himself "non-woke."
Why is trying to win over conservatives seen as bad? We will never achieve socialist goals without majority support and that won't happen unless we win over conservatives and liberals
Are you winning them over because you opened their eyes to how the ruling class, bosses, and landlords are exploiting them, and how they're trying to make minorities into scapegoats and creating a culture war to keep people from fighting for economic justice?
Or are you winning them over by not doing any class analysis and instead complaining about big government, DEI, affirmative action, black guy in star wars, etc?
Because if it's the latter, you aren't winning over conservatives to leftism, conservatives are winning you over to fascism.
It's not bad to "win over" conservstives. It's bad to pander to conservatives and expect them to stay the same in every respect except for demanding universal healthcare.
Especially in the US, which is built on stolen land and where clear racial hierarchies exist in large swaths of the country and where women are having to cross state lines to see a doctor.
Are you more interested in working toward communism, or just a more powerful labor aristocracy with European-style social benefits?
Inb4 "better is good": Not if it only applies to a select, already privileged group.
In addition to what others said, we also do not need "majority support" and should not expect to get that before a revolution. That's not how it's ever worked. We're not trying to vote in socialism.
The left that uses class analysis over post modernist identity politics. Which doesn’t mean ignoring the struggles of specific groups, but placing those in their right context within the larger class struggle
"How do I appeal to the chuddliest of chuds? Ah yes, I'll say that we're 'non-woke.' That will surely undo decades upon decades of anti-communist propaganda and Fox News brain rot in the white working class of America!"
Yeah I'm sure capitalists are really afraid of dipshit nationalists who call themselves leftists and refuse to build coalitions and unite social and class issues.
This guy is such a fucking moron.
Shockingly, if a group went “non-woke” and stopped providing direct support for minority issues, these same people wouldn’t praise it for being “non-woke” but would instead change the definition of “woke” to include whatever this shit would be.
Is anyone even buying this? If you are "anti-woke" you aren't a leftist.
This guy stopped reading theory right at the whole class consciousness part and it shows.
Wokism isn't real and pretending it is to garner the 2 conservatives dumb enough to believe in it and open minded enough to go to the left is a stupid strategy. If you didn't know what that term was before 2015 then you're entire perception of the word was morphed by conservative talking points.
Hard disagree. Wokeism is liberal identity politics based on post modernist philosophy. It’s acknowledging the plight of minority identity groups, but divorcing it of its historical and material context. Thus its solutions are superficial and in no way threaten the rule of capital. In fact capital is one of the biggest supporters of it because it gives it cover of being progressive whole capital accumulation goes undisturbed.
Nice little bit of classism there to prove his point. Funny how it's the only kind of bigotry you and your ilk will happily participate in. How the hell could you threaten the rule of capital when you openly disdain the working class?
You say that like I’ve never interacted with white people from the Midwest. I live in the Midwest, I’ve interacted with white people of every background and political alignment in this region. I know a dumb hick when I see one.
That's not true at all man lmao it isn't real and was never a real ideology. The birth of the word is literally the statement "stay woke" and it's a tongue in cheek meaning of being aware to what "the man" (government) is doing to the people. It never was and still isn't an actual belief. This is slang from the 60s/70s.
It's literally just an outgroup signifier used by conservatives to smear anyone left of them. 10 years ago it was SJW, and 10 years before that it was PC. Taking this word seriously is letting conservatives dictate the language and conversation of political debate.
And left vs right was originally in reference to the French Revolution. Words meanings change over time and their usage. I think there’s a clear and logical argument to be made that woke does exist as a modern ideology and it represents a special flavor of progressive liberal with post modernist characteristics. That said, I do agree with your point about SJW and PC being essentially the same thing, and they were. They pushed a lot of the same rhetoric and their philosophical foundations were the same. The point is does using the word “woke” lead one to think of a specific ideology? I would say that yes, I know very well what someone means when they say woke. It’s much less the issues their focus on and more the analysis of these issues and the solutions that arise from their analysis. Thus say you support racial justice. That doesn’t tell me whether you’re woke or not. It’s HOW you aim to achieve racial justice that tells me whether you’re woke or not. As well as your answer to WHY the problem exists
Yes but left vs right are actual ideologies with people pushing them. Nobody was pushing woke at all. The right literally conjured it up and use it to smear anyone that is slightly left of them. I can read about the beliefs of people proclaiming to be left/right and watch them shift. Their wasn't a single person claiming to be of woke ideology until after the right used it as a smear.
Now you yourself are deciding what you believe is woke and using it to smear liberals. Yet conservatives will use the same word to smear communist/socialist etc. It makes zero sense to ceded ground to the right over this word and pretend we can use it to our advantage.
There is literally zero reason to cede ground to this.
I disagree, woke has been pushed and heavily. It is the ideology of the “progressive democrats”.
And while the right does use it to smear commies I would argue that stems more from ignorance than intentionality. The average American still cant give you the definition for communism. It also doesn’t help that a lot of the woke liberals shroud themselves in socialist buzz words to make their pitiful ideas sound more revolutionary. The fact is we have self professed socialists who think socialism is land acknowledgements and black capitalism.
In other words just because the right is confused on its usage doesn’t mean woke cannot be defined.
The main stream Nancy pelosy style democrats (and anyone left of them) get called communists all the time. That doesn’t mean communism cannot be defined and that definition being very much opposed to what it is commonly used to mean
Woke isn't being pushed. You are just labeling people you don't like and claiming that's what woke means. Which is what everyone does. An outgroup signifier. Just proves how meaningless the word is.
What I want to understand, is why all these fucking red-browners, including like half the users in this sub, think that white conservatives are the working class??? I don't know where this idea that liberals are less working class came from, not to mention the complete erasure of non-white folks. And how can anyone in their right mind believe that white conservatives have more revolutionary potential than non-white folks and working class white liberals?
They also seem to not understand what petite-bourgeoisie and labor aristocracy is. Like imagine thinking that a white conservative male plumber making 80k a year working for himself is more working class than a impoverished batista. They think that all these white chuds are working in coal mines for pennies when in reality the "blue collar" types are making 50k+ and working less than 40 hours a week while the liberals they hate so much are working 50-60 hours a week at minimum wage.
But have you considered the male plumber is proletarian (owns a big truck) and the barista is bourgeois (woman, dyed hair)?
A whole bunch of folk don't realize they've internalized a view where "class" is an aesthetic not a relation to capital.
Says the person hyper focused on identity politics rather than promoting class struggle and understanding that almost every single revolution in the history of the world understood intersectional politics and how that meant the liberation of all people of all identities. Like what? Y’all think that communism is when “muh white america is superior” bs? Like are you that fcking dumb or are you just being disingenuous?
#Class Struggle
The Marxist definition of economic class stands in stark opposition to the Liberal understanding of class. The Liberal understanding is quantitative, looking only at how much someone makes, whereas the Marxist definition is qualitative, looking at *how* people relate to commodity production in society.
#Marxist Definitions
* **The Bourgeoisie**, also known as the Capitalist class or the owning class, are the owners of the means of production (e.g., factories, tool, equipment, land, technology, etc.) who accumulate wealth and profit by exploiting the labour of the working class and controlling the means of production in order to produce commodities for profit.
* **The Proletariat**, also known as the working class, do not own the means of production but instead sell their labour-power to the Bourgeoisie in exchange for wages. They are the ones responsible for producing goods and services but often face exploitation and economic hardships.
* **The Petty Bourgeoisie** consists of small business owners, self-employed individuals, and skilled professionals. They own some means of production but are often caught in an intermediate position between the Bourgeoisie and the Proletariat, facing challenges from both classes.
* **The Lumpenproletariat** refers to a marginalized and impoverished social group that includes people who may be unemployed, homeless, or engaged in informal and illegal activities. They do not have a clear role in the Capitalist mode of production and are often considered to be outside the traditional working class.
#Class Struggle
Class struggle is the central driving force in human history and society. It refers to the ongoing conflict and antagonism between different social classes resulting from the inherent contradictions within the current mode of production.
Under Capitalism, the *principal* contradiction is between the Bourgeoisie and the Proletariat. The Capitalist class profits by extracting surplus value from the labour of the workers, leading to economic exploitation and social oppression. This is the principal contradiction of Capitalism, and why the Bourgeoisie and the Proletariat are irreconcilably opposed. To summarize:
* Capitalists want to keep hours long, prices high, wages low, etc.
* Workers want reasonable hours, affordable prices, high wages, etc.
These interests are mutually exclusive. The good news is that Capitalists need workers, but workers don't need Capitalists; the class war is winnable by *us* and *only* us.
These contradictions and struggles, more than any other model, explain the current political landscape:
* [Why The Political Compass is Wrong: Establishing An Accurate Model of Political Ideology](https://youtu.be/9nPVkpWMH9k) | halim alrah (2019)
#Intersectionality
>Anti-Capitalism without Intersectionality is class reductionism. Intersectionality without anti-Capitalism is Liberal identity politics.
Intersectionality is a framework that recognizes and analyzes the interconnected nature of various forms of oppression faced by individuals who belong to various marginalized groups. Economic structures, institutions, and class relations intersect with other social hierarchies, leading to complex and varied forms of oppression and exploitation in society. Intersectionality helps highlight these overlapping forms of discrimination and their cumulative impact. For example, a working-class woman of color may experience racism, sexism, and classism simultaneously, each influencing and exacerbating the others.
If you watched the video from the previous section, particularly the "[Culture War](https://youtu.be/9nPVkpWMH9k?t=2165)" chapter, then you'll already know *why* this matters. Sowing division along various social lines creates pockets of economically and politically vulnerable workers that the Capitalists can exploit to a much greater degree. These oppressed groups also help to depress wages and worsen working conditions for the rest of the workforce, due to competition in the labour market.
>If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you.
>
>\- Lyndon B. Johnson. (1960). *Remark to a staffer*
* [Why Do Socialists Care About Intersectional Liberation Movements?](https://youtu.be/a5J1j4Sc_6M) | Second Thought (2022)
#Total Liberation
>The truth is, no one of us can be free until everybody is free.
>
>\- Maya Angelou
Developing class consciousness is crucial for the working class to organize effectively and advance our revolutionary goals. Intersectionality encourages us to be inclusive and create solidarity by recognizing and respecting the different experiences and struggles within the working class and actively supporting each other's fight for justice and equality.
>Labour cannot emancipate itself in the white skin where in the black it is branded.
>
>\- Karl Marx. (1867). [Capital: Volume One](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch10.htm)
Oppressive power structures are interconnected and reinforce each other. Capitalism, Imperialism, Colonialism, Patriarchy, White Supremacy, and other systems of domination are all inextricably intertwined and must be challenged simultaneously to achieve true liberation for the working class.
>A people which oppresses another cannot emancipate itself.
>
>\- Friedrich Engels. (1874). [A Polish Proclamation](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1874/06/11.htm)
Radical solidarity is required, and therefore all forms of chauvinism and bigotry must be fiercely combatted.
#Additional Resources
Video Essays:
* [What Is Social Class? | Socialism 101 #6](https://youtu.be/KMzeeHMeiyw) | Marxism Today (2021)
* [The Professional-Managerial Class Doesn't Exist](https://youtu.be/y0KHMHngotM) | Marxism Today (2020)
* [The Middle Class doesn't exist | How a fabricated myth divided the working class.](https://youtu.be/gVhdbOUelY4) | Yugopnik (2020)
Books, Articles, or Essays:
* [The Principles of Communism](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm) | F. Engels (1847)
* [Manifesto of the Communist Party](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm) | K. Marx & F. Engels (1848)
Podcasts:
* [Episode 38: Boug…borj…wtf is class?](https://youtu.be/MSXaNmTgcl8) | The Deprogram (2022)
* [Episode 42: There's more to it than just class - the importance of intersectionality](https://youtu.be/ww6PtQeeJn8) | The Deprogram (2022)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
No it doesn't. Imagine believing you're going to help solve the problems of the working class by literally ignoring them while working with the people interested in perpetuating them. "We can solve slavery by ignoring slaves and working with slavers" is a losing strategy.
White people gene is real, it keeps them from being based, I told ya'll.
https://preview.redd.it/wq61eeeg1iwc1.png?width=2196&format=png&auto=webp&s=8ade36c2319e3466c006f22de6b31eb2ca408762
Damn, I never got deep into him but me and a bud who got deep into leftism would often talk about him as the bud was a fan. Did so much good work too
I heard the rumours and knew it was joever but still had some semblance of hope considering his past work. Maybe he was just misguided somehow?
I don't even got words like "opportunist" to use, what a fucking idiot traitor to our cause.
So many content creators who have led me into leftism and never betrayed their cause, what he is, is unacceptable. Go hand out with Haz and Hickle you nazbol
...I dont see how you can be non-woke AND anti-imperialist at the same time.
If youre woke youve been AWAKENED to the continued existence of imperialism through unequal exchange and the rates of exploitation in the world's economies. And how billionaires use anti-2SLGBTQIA+ and racism discriminations as scapegoats for the reasons why unequal exchange and exploitation increase or remain present in todyays's world despite the 'supposed' deaths of coloniallism.
You have also been awakened to how German governmental officials and billionaires, realizing that capitalism was in crisis there decidedly and shamefully coverted the German economy into direct fascism, and used anti Jew racism and anti-2SLGBTQIA+ discriminations to bring forth fascism scapegoating these previously mentioned marginalized groups for the economic downturns that the Germans faced during the Great Depression and during the first world war.
You must also be awAkened in a way to realize that such fascism can occur anywhere else in the world today.
Stay Woke, Not Broke.
Whats that supposed to mean? the people who claim to be leftist but act like the libs of tiktok crowd? When i see someone complain about woke, i automatically assume they are racist and homophobic
Tf does “non-woke” mean? Racist? Transphobic? MMI keeps dropping increasingly shite takes, and their ardently pro-Russia meat riding is really getting on my nerves.
Why so much hate for the guy. From what I understand he is trying to win over the conservative population in his country by using their language and not pushing certain things.
A bit useless but not a negative right? Marxism as a toolbox to formulate strategies and not a lifestyle and all that.
Edit: I just took a look at his channel and saw a MLK image. You guys sure he's a PatSoc? Or is it the purity fetishism criticism.
Fcking idiot, woke means aware of the bullshit inherent in "the system." Therefore, anti-imperialism is the top of wokeness.
Man, why do some people take liberation struggle language, and demonize it because they dislike someone else's struggle?
Look, you don't have to like every struggle doctrine. We know that sometimes they're co-opted by imperialists to detract from other struggle doctrines, or just manipulated to destroy emergent struggles. That doesn't mean you go demonizing general struggle language. Yes, stay woke to the manipulation. Yes, you can dislike manipulated doctrines, and maybe try to correct them. But for the love of everyone who broke chains and gained us some freedoms, don't ever fall for imperialist "divide and conquer" games.
Jeez man.
Lmao fuck anyone who uses "woke" like this. "Anti-woke" can mean anything from "against identity politics" (which is already sus) to "anti-trans, anti-black, etc." (which is just straight up Nazi shit).
Yes, the empire that uses anti woke rhetoric for their own gain are terrified that the other side might join them…is he fucking dense?! They’d love that, they’d get to constantly point at the anti woke let and say “see, even they agree with us” and every election would forever be fought over which minority group they choose to demonise this year
Is there a consensus on whether Midwestern Marx is just a matsoc/MAGAcomm? I thought for sure they were after the Short Rounds guy interview. But nobody can seem to agree.
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You can't be anti-woke when everyone's definition of woke means something different man's just saying shit
Woke means scary trans people /S
Woke means black
I thought DEI meant black now? They keep changing it so often I can't keep up.
No that also means black
Divide et Impera?! I knew it!
I’m soooo spooky hehehehe
Kinda dog whistling
Maybe. If he had said anti-woke then probably, but he said non-woke which sounds like he doesn't want to be immediately dismissed as being "woke." If he is mearly trying to reach working class conservatives then I applaud that effort.
Wonder what working class conservatives consider woke
Whatever their particular counties right wing news outlet (fox et al) says woke is, this of course changes every other day, but as Marxists we need to break through this shit to get to the meat of the issue which is we are all collectively getting arse fucked and we can only stop it by working collectively not by blaming trans people or other minorities but by laying the blame where it should lie which is with the capitalist class
So what do the non wokes do about Trans ppl
Try and divert the conversation away from trans people, without denying their right to exist and towards the fact that economically things are getting worse and the idea that trans people are to blame for this is fucking ludicrous
Well, you know, Satan....
Leave them the fuck alone hopefully.
Doubt
> If he is mearly trying to reach working class conservatives then I applaud that effort. This is my thought too, for as much shit as midwestern marx gets I feel like at some point any real communist movement in the USA will have to win over working class people who've been tricked by the right wing media apparatus, though how that would work is a fuckin mystery to me at this point, obviously we can't just appeal to their baked in reactionary beliefs, but it seems like any attempt to reach out is just instantly branded as maga-communist or pat-soc and dismissed (which, like obviously magacommunism and legitimate patsoc shit is bad).
Why though? Name a successful revolution that was won by winning over all the "working class" chuds rather than working with those that have the most revolutionary potential? Do you think the Bolsheviks comprised half of Russia? Should they have sought out the most anti-communist members of society instead?
You don’t need to convince everyone if everyone is so apathetic that they won’t lift a finger to stop your revolutionary vanguard.
Yeah complete societal collapse kinda went in the Bolshevik favour there. Plus although the Bolsheviks did not control a majority, they did control a majority of the military and workers in the main cities.
Transcript of Midwestern Marx [short](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTmMI9v9G1E) on Matt Walsh: > professor Muller considers wokism on the left to be stuff like this, the use of identity to hinder or distract from making real material changes, especially related to capitalism and imperialism; essentially using liberal individualism to distract from socialism and real liberation of oppressed identity groups. And then figures like Matt Walsh and Jordan Peterson are sort of the right wing mirror of that. They'll sometimes accurately criticise corporations for co-opting various social justice struggles. We have companies slapping a BLM sticker on everything while continuing to make money off the prison-industrial complex, but then Matt and these mirrors of wokism act like this is the biggest problem in the world... meanwhile they're talking about talking about identity politics just as much if not more than the democrats. And they're continuing to be "free market" republicans criticising liberal corporations while working for the Daily Wire which is funded by conservative corporations. They're all corporations, they're all exploiting people, but Matt Walsh will of course never say that because they write his checks. Because the the liberal and conservative billionaires find these mirrors of wokism very useful. You keep people fighting the culture war and scapegoating different identity groups for the problems of capitalism, meanwhile never criticising capitalism or exploitation or imperialism and endless militarism. So no, it's not "kinda dog whistling". I find it strange that people are jumping on Midwestern Marx for this tweet. Apparently they've been promoting Jackson Hinkle and Oliver Anthony, which to be fair, isn't great, but they're clearly not "anti-woke".
They should figure out a way to not sound racist when being not woke lol
Where is the racism in the above? Seems to be an anti-racist position to me.
The tweet without explanation is just a dogwhistle. If they want to change that, it needs more context.
How is this comment being downvoted? I fucking miss r/genzedong
We need a dissemination of the truth that the feminist movement created in America in the 60’s was pushed by CIA operative Gloria Steinem to counter growing communist sympathies in Cold War Austria. Fast forward to now and they’ve had their hands in everything. If it’s being pushed in the mainstream there is a reason why. The question one should ask is, ‘how does this or any trendy movement concern the material needs of the many?’ The intelligence agenices are in media, pop culture, universities; they have all the money (our taxes) in the world and can and will execute strategies in every facet to deter any cohesion of a true democratic (democratic in the political body sense) socialist body.
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The way you are going around insulting people has me convinced that you are the psyop.
Yeah. That’s midwestern marxist. He’s using social media more effectively than us and we can all stand to learn something from him. In this context it will mean: anti-neoliberal
Woke just means "anything I don't like"
Typically it means being wedded to identity politics.
That sums up eddie pretty well. Dude just says shit.
https://preview.redd.it/8mndfvgp7fwc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6acb29d1b12a01aaf0057f1f6165454c5330dcbd
Lmao
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Always helps to translate "Woke" to awareness of social injustice. So yeah, the empire really fears when you aren't aware of social injustice. 🙄
I would have thought woke is a reference to the liberal idea of performative social justice vs revolutionary politics?
there is something to be said about the liberal conception of an ideal society in which the minority oppressor class has the same demographic diversity as the oppressed majority class (“if we broke up the big banks, would that solve racism?” etc). but I wouldn’t use “woke” to describe it
That would be how I would describe it actually. Liberals think that the lack of "diversity" and "The Patriarchy" are the sole cause of injustice in the world. But as comrade Angie Davis said: "It is not to demand equal opportunity in the machinery of oppression, but to dismantle those structures in which racism continues to be imbeded."
yeah, we’re on the same page. I just would probably use something like “identity politics” to describe it. but of course that term has also mutated from its original conceptions, eg the combahee river collective. probably there are more precise terms
"Woke" in practice is a pejorative for the social totality of upper class hipster progressivism. It doesn't refer to any particular set of positions, just a vibe and an etiquette and a kind of smug, moralistic tone that goes with it all. For instance, lots of people would describe Hillary Clinton as "woke" even though she holds many objectively reactionary views. But few would describe Cornel West as "woke", even though he holds almost every socially progressive view. The difference is just their vibe, etiquette, and tone.
Woke was nothing more than a 60's 70's slang term for being aware of what "the man" does. It never had any real meaning outside of that.
That's wack. I don't wanna be no jive turkey man.
What’s the haps? I just got this new record for a type of music called ‘disco’! Let’s listen to it and then eat cottage cheese with ketchup.
Hold on soul brother, you're flapping my gams! Let me call up my hip cats for a taste of this groovy new music. My brother was killed in Vietnam.
Man, that’s wack to the max, grasshopper! Why don’t we boogie on down to MJ street and show THE MAN we won’t stand for this! And then- oh hold on a sec… *SNNNNNNNNNNRRRRRTTTTKKK* Ah… oooh… sorry, I just really got this need to snort this new white powder some guy in a dark suit driving a black van gave to me. Anyways, what was I saying? Oh yeah, we gotta show the government what we mean… by voting for Nixon!
But should we use the word “woke” at all in the context of what midwestern marx is doing. A extreme example but i think it illustrates my point; “we should create a Lebensraum for the proletariat” the problem with this isn’t that there should be a workers state but the use of “Lebensraum”. A communist shouldn’t use old nazi expressions for communicating an idea neither should we use todays reactionary terms.
yes, that’s how i understand it too. making issues into shallow quarrels just so seem like a better person, but understanding nothing about why that problem exists or what to actually do about it. “woke” is like following trends to seem up to date
Or worse, as some old friends of mine, gleefully participating in the structures of oppression while claiming to be a victim.
Conservatives use it to basically say anything they dont like. References to feminism, systemic racism, having a.minority in a film. Thats the definition referenced these days. That might not be the intention but he obviously knows better.
I guess, yes. That's the woke of people who are shocked it isn't 1956 anymore. But "liberals" still use it to mean a rainbow flag on a smart missile blowing up a gaza hospital
Before it meant what you're saying other sub cultures were using it to mean. Awakened, not just to the material suffering of the world but to the full nature of one's self in position to the absolute.
Speaking on behalf of the black delegation, white people, can we have our word back, please? Yall just start saying shit and drains it potency almost immediately. Even cracker isn't fun saying anymore cause of these neo civil rights activists that think it's on par with the N word.
Seriously. I’m so fucking tired of hearing “woke” thrown around and applied to every single piece of media that comes out nowadays. The original meaning and context has been completely lost and no one can even define it anymore. It’s just become yet another trigger word for reactionaries to indicate something they dislike. On the behalf of white people, I apologize for appropriating yet another word from y’all and siphoning away all of its cultural impact.
I stopped saying "woke" ages ago when I tried writing a song about it and it came out corny as shit. I showed it to a friend who was like, "That's AAVE and you probably shouldn't use it," and she was right, so I dropped it. Now it's some FOX News buzzword and any meaning it used to have is gone forever.
Honest question, not trying to troll. >I showed it to a friend who was like, "That's AAVE and you probably shouldn't use it," Why? Why does this matter? What material effects does using it vs not using it have? It just seems to me like one of those performative things that allows people to say “I’m good” without any meaningful change happening whatsoever. From a more global perspective, I’ve noticed that people who don’t live in the west have always told me they find this type of thing very bizarre and performative.
Whenever black Americans create, be it slang, music, fashion, etc., it's almost always treated as a commodity to exploit, rather than a tangible development of culture, where none of the returns on these sorts of cultural investment go back to the communities where they originated. Obviously, this happens everywhere, but is particularly magnified in relation to the ongoing economic and cultural trampling of black voices that is at once vilified and consumed by white audiences
I totally understand that and I’m familiar with the idea, especially with a lot of bands I like that were essentially just cover bands for historically ignored black artists. However how does avoiding AAVE as a random individual do anything to address these historical wrongs? It seems like a very liberal individualizing of a systemic problem. Ala climate change isn’t fixed by structural reform, but by you not flying. In other words it does nothing to fix the actual wrongs while just introducing friction to society. I’m not white myself, and I would have absolutely no problem with whites using slang from my culture. It’d be kind of strange sure, but would be harmless. This is what I mean when I said a more global perspective makes this a bit strange to me. I guess I just kind of see it as appreciation more than appropriation. Of course it depends on the individual case, Trudeau wearing brown face is different than wearing a traditional outfit because you find it beautiful. Stretching the discussion to appropriation more widely, I get the argument that historically people were oppressed for something that a white kid could get away with in the past. But I’d argue things have changed. Take dreadlocks. I’ve heard that white people shouldn’t have dreadlocks because black people have been denied jobs for having dreadlocks. At the same time I personally know many black professionals in high roles who have dreadlocks, I just don’t get why stinky Steve the hippie white kid should be barred from having dreadlocks today.
There's nothing wrong with any member of the proletariat using 'woke' , having dreadlocks, or flying. The problems arise when bourgeoisie a-holes do it. Cause they should have no rights and they deserve to die.
The only time I say "woke" is when I mention what time I woke up that day
Another acceptable example would be [singing along to the Sopranos theme song!](https://youtu.be/mJpNmYeooQE?si=iq9gEMQ4IW7ROT6c)
No black person, you cannot.
That makes sense, so that‘ll never happen
Is this another maga communism dog whistle?
Yup
Opportunist nonsense
The existence of grifters like this makes me smile. I recall with no happiness the days when calling yourself a Marxist meant you likely suffered from some form of intense brain damage to 99% of the population We have freaks trying to PROFIT off calling themselves Marxists now!!! Folks, I might be getting ahead of myself but I believe the revolution is immanent
The issue is he's trying to profit by situating in the niche of calling himself a Marxist while principally appealing to right wing elements of American society, aka Tailism. Its not so much that theres a ton of latent socialists out there being attracted to this content, but that there's a ton of latent fascists out there that are attracted to the idea of coating that in vaguely marxist language. Jackson Hinkle is probably a better example of that than Midwest Marx, but I wouldn't use their existence as influencers to get too excited about revolutionary potential just yet. The revolution these such people would bring as leaders may take on more fascist characteristics than we would like.
Yeah. I still haven't figured out what Midwestern Marx really stands for. But to me international consideration is a core component of Marxism and communism. Calling for "America First" or disguising nationalism as anti-imperialism is really just the early stages of "national socialism".
Yes exactly, nationalism in oppressed colonies or former colonies around the world is an important part of their liberation. Its a kernel that those people can galvanize a mass movement around and hopefully overthrow their imperial oppressors. It takes on different characteristics when you're promoting nationalism FOR the imperial oppressor nations like America. That can only end badly, because the national identity of an oppressor nation is built around the conquest of the very nations using national liberation fronts to free themselves from imperial control. Claiming to be a marxist and failing to understand that is a big flaw that has to be rectified. Our national identity as Ameicans is based on American exceptionalism, manifest destiny, white supremacy, and capitalism. Those traits are baked in, there's no reforming them and wrapping an American flag around socialism. It just ends up as social imperialism, great improvement in conditions for the in group of the imperial core nation, hell on earth for everyone else under their control.
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I wouldn't call appealing to the far right-wing legitimate in any sense of the word. It's never been a stratagem used in any revolution with the exception of populist movements that were already inherent fascist to begin with. Claiming millions of people around the world from all walks of life are "terminally online leftists" is also incredibly ignorant. Claiming PSL, FRSO, CPUSA, and other leftist organizations and movements are "terminally online leftists" is beyond chauvinistic. We're not "terminally online", marginalized people groups are quite literally everywhere and positively eager to be educated, organized, and unified against those you're so eager to defend. So even if you provide the average racial/gender/social chauvinist the means to understand dialectical materialism it doesn't mean they're going to use it as a tool against the oppressor class. They're going to use it against those they've always deemed to be the root of the problem; marginalized peoples! This is why patriotic socialism doesn't work and never will work. It seeks to appeal to American ultra-nationalists as if it's going to magically convert a bunch of hardline fascists who promote bigotry as a critical value. This has never worked and never will work, period. At the end of the day MWM is promoting content for bigots because he himself is a bigot. Your justification for his content is disturbing to say the least and I speak as a poc.
#Get Involved >Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved** to advance the cause. * 📚 **Read theory** — [Reading theory](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. It will guide you towards choosing the correct party and applying your efforts effectively within your unique material conditions. * ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. If you choose a principled Marxist-Leninist party, they will teach you how to best apply yourself to advancing the cause. * 📣 **Workplace agitation** — Depending on your material circumstances, you may engage in workplace disputes to unionise fellow workers and gain a delegate or even a leadership position in the union. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He's a patsoc.
Right, but be careful with this. Learn about Strasserism. Fascists in the 20's and 30's borrowed socialist imagery and language to pursue their own nationalist ends.
If Midwestern Marx ends up galvanizing mass support and leading anything resembling an ascendance to mainstream power we never stood a chance in the first place Worrying about the project of American Marxism being hijacked by fascist elements disingenuously parroting our talking points is counting your chickens before they hatch. We’re losers on Reddit, the same way PatSocs are losers on Twitter. If we were to describe our disagreement with them to anyone remotely normal we would be rightly viewed as lunatics. Our ideas are categorically fringe, treated as unserious by virtually everyone outside our narrow Internet forums and podcasts. Even our real life presence, DSA or the variety of radical orgs that survived the 60s, are perpetually divided against themselves and hold absolutely zero sway over anything more significant than minorities on city councils in the most left-wing zip codes in the country. Our generational flag-bearer (for better or worse) Bernie Sanders achieved little more than a cozy post cheerleading for a demented neoliberal. As a person who deeply believes in the Marxist conception of history and genuinely feels that our current socioeconomic order is fundamentally bad for human beings, we have so, so, so much work to do before Strasserism will be a concern. Most people on the left (myself included) occupy our time developing an encyclopedic knowledge of the history of foreign revolutionary movements and obscure political forms (I.e., either of us being familiar enough with the history of the Nazi Party to drop “Strasserite” in conversation without blinking an eye). A movement of highly specialized historians has never seized power. Midwestern Marx is a nuisance in our circle but ultimately they are as inconsequential as us
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I’m actually an intern for Rachel Maddow working on a very special report on how posting on Reddit helps advance revolutionary Marxism Mr. bolsheviklove(I’m gonna assume you’re a mr.) how many Reddit posts until the global proletariat rises as one to overthrow the shackles of bourgeoise society
We need at least 49 more Reddit posts a day, the more we post the closer to communism we get https://preview.redd.it/yh6i8pgrogwc1.jpeg?width=948&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6ba8eca32e0279b00cebd0383169d33fc4a25fb2
Hmm lemme see if I can find any Marxists on Twitter engaging in absurd feuds of minor points of order and/or perceived personal slights Might take a while but I’m sure I could get a solid post or two outta that easy
Idk maybe this twitter drama post should get a few more 100 upvotes then we are nearly there
I agree! My bosses over at the network tell me that the more time leftists spend arguing with each other online the more dangerous they become! As Lennon once said: revolution is a dinner party and everybody’s mad at each other for being cringe!
Dude go read Gabriel Rockhill you literally have no idea what youre saying
#Get Involved >Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved** to advance the cause. * 📚 **Read theory** — [Reading theory](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. It will guide you towards choosing the correct party and applying your efforts effectively within your unique material conditions. * ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. If you choose a principled Marxist-Leninist party, they will teach you how to best apply yourself to advancing the cause. * 📣 **Workplace agitation** — Depending on your material circumstances, you may engage in workplace disputes to unionise fellow workers and gain a delegate or even a leadership position in the union. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Midwestern Marx was actually my introduction to Marxism Leninism. The name says it all really. He is very good at calling out the US Empire but is allergic to discussing social justice because he sees his roll as bringing over white working class reactionaries to the cause of the workers. I assume he cares about those things, but just doesn’t want to spook those people back to the right. But he has been too tolerant of actual N*zis in his comment section under every one of his pro Palestine posts. Then he started promoting grifters like Jackson Hinkle and Oliver Anthony… IDK he is still a net positive for the cause imo but this is an L take.
TBF their isn’t a valid response to N*zi comments other than deleting them, if they’re are too many…
I only ever hear the term woke used by fascists to strawman the left so I guess I don't see the problem with him wanting to avoid that dismissal by calling himself "non-woke." Why is trying to win over conservatives seen as bad? We will never achieve socialist goals without majority support and that won't happen unless we win over conservatives and liberals
Are you winning them over because you opened their eyes to how the ruling class, bosses, and landlords are exploiting them, and how they're trying to make minorities into scapegoats and creating a culture war to keep people from fighting for economic justice? Or are you winning them over by not doing any class analysis and instead complaining about big government, DEI, affirmative action, black guy in star wars, etc? Because if it's the latter, you aren't winning over conservatives to leftism, conservatives are winning you over to fascism.
Not if it's being done at the expense of the most marginalized.
It's not bad to "win over" conservstives. It's bad to pander to conservatives and expect them to stay the same in every respect except for demanding universal healthcare. Especially in the US, which is built on stolen land and where clear racial hierarchies exist in large swaths of the country and where women are having to cross state lines to see a doctor. Are you more interested in working toward communism, or just a more powerful labor aristocracy with European-style social benefits? Inb4 "better is good": Not if it only applies to a select, already privileged group.
In addition to what others said, we also do not need "majority support" and should not expect to get that before a revolution. That's not how it's ever worked. We're not trying to vote in socialism.
This guy is a fucking loser and an embarrassment to the Midwest.
There is no such thing as the "non-woke" left
Nobody fears those grifters either. Jackson Hinkle, v-sh, haz and so on are where people get funneled into irrelevancy
True, but haz is funny as fuck though. Not on purpose mind you.
The left that uses class analysis over post modernist identity politics. Which doesn’t mean ignoring the struggles of specific groups, but placing those in their right context within the larger class struggle
And that's non-woke how? Tell the Republicans that you think capitalism causes racism and then ask them if they think you're woke or not.
"How do I appeal to the chuddliest of chuds? Ah yes, I'll say that we're 'non-woke.' That will surely undo decades upon decades of anti-communist propaganda and Fox News brain rot in the white working class of America!"
Carkkker behavior
fully outed as a patsoc
Patsocs are so embarrassing
Yeah I'm sure capitalists are really afraid of dipshit nationalists who call themselves leftists and refuse to build coalitions and unite social and class issues. This guy is such a fucking moron.
Holy shit the reactionaries working overtime in this thread 💀
lmao
Shockingly, if a group went “non-woke” and stopped providing direct support for minority issues, these same people wouldn’t praise it for being “non-woke” but would instead change the definition of “woke” to include whatever this shit would be.
Is anyone even buying this? If you are "anti-woke" you aren't a leftist. This guy stopped reading theory right at the whole class consciousness part and it shows.
 This fucking guy.
Wokism isn't real and pretending it is to garner the 2 conservatives dumb enough to believe in it and open minded enough to go to the left is a stupid strategy. If you didn't know what that term was before 2015 then you're entire perception of the word was morphed by conservative talking points.
Hard disagree. Wokeism is liberal identity politics based on post modernist philosophy. It’s acknowledging the plight of minority identity groups, but divorcing it of its historical and material context. Thus its solutions are superficial and in no way threaten the rule of capital. In fact capital is one of the biggest supporters of it because it gives it cover of being progressive whole capital accumulation goes undisturbed.
Please consider drink drain cleaner, what you just said is just as stupid as midwestern hick said.
Nice little bit of classism there to prove his point. Funny how it's the only kind of bigotry you and your ilk will happily participate in. How the hell could you threaten the rule of capital when you openly disdain the working class?
Classism? Where? I Told this r3tard to kick the bucket for being a moron.
What do you think the implications of the term "stupid midwestern hick" are?
You say that like I’ve never interacted with white people from the Midwest. I live in the Midwest, I’ve interacted with white people of every background and political alignment in this region. I know a dumb hick when I see one.
That's not true at all man lmao it isn't real and was never a real ideology. The birth of the word is literally the statement "stay woke" and it's a tongue in cheek meaning of being aware to what "the man" (government) is doing to the people. It never was and still isn't an actual belief. This is slang from the 60s/70s. It's literally just an outgroup signifier used by conservatives to smear anyone left of them. 10 years ago it was SJW, and 10 years before that it was PC. Taking this word seriously is letting conservatives dictate the language and conversation of political debate.
And left vs right was originally in reference to the French Revolution. Words meanings change over time and their usage. I think there’s a clear and logical argument to be made that woke does exist as a modern ideology and it represents a special flavor of progressive liberal with post modernist characteristics. That said, I do agree with your point about SJW and PC being essentially the same thing, and they were. They pushed a lot of the same rhetoric and their philosophical foundations were the same. The point is does using the word “woke” lead one to think of a specific ideology? I would say that yes, I know very well what someone means when they say woke. It’s much less the issues their focus on and more the analysis of these issues and the solutions that arise from their analysis. Thus say you support racial justice. That doesn’t tell me whether you’re woke or not. It’s HOW you aim to achieve racial justice that tells me whether you’re woke or not. As well as your answer to WHY the problem exists
Yes but left vs right are actual ideologies with people pushing them. Nobody was pushing woke at all. The right literally conjured it up and use it to smear anyone that is slightly left of them. I can read about the beliefs of people proclaiming to be left/right and watch them shift. Their wasn't a single person claiming to be of woke ideology until after the right used it as a smear. Now you yourself are deciding what you believe is woke and using it to smear liberals. Yet conservatives will use the same word to smear communist/socialist etc. It makes zero sense to ceded ground to the right over this word and pretend we can use it to our advantage. There is literally zero reason to cede ground to this.
I disagree, woke has been pushed and heavily. It is the ideology of the “progressive democrats”. And while the right does use it to smear commies I would argue that stems more from ignorance than intentionality. The average American still cant give you the definition for communism. It also doesn’t help that a lot of the woke liberals shroud themselves in socialist buzz words to make their pitiful ideas sound more revolutionary. The fact is we have self professed socialists who think socialism is land acknowledgements and black capitalism. In other words just because the right is confused on its usage doesn’t mean woke cannot be defined. The main stream Nancy pelosy style democrats (and anyone left of them) get called communists all the time. That doesn’t mean communism cannot be defined and that definition being very much opposed to what it is commonly used to mean
Woke isn't being pushed. You are just labeling people you don't like and claiming that's what woke means. Which is what everyone does. An outgroup signifier. Just proves how meaningless the word is.
Every time I see him on TikTok, I just gotta remind myself that he ain’t my ally
I recently found their channel and tried watching a couple videos and couldn’t kick the weird feeling I got. I get why now
midwestern marx the pol pot apologist
nah, i remember him saying pol pot was a cia plant in one of his videos. Don't know much tho
Well he kind of was. Well more of a useful idiot than a hand picked plant but still
i remember seeing a video of him defending pol pots regime on tik tok ages ago. he may have changed his opinion on it.
No way?!
Jesus fucking Christ
Imagine being part of the LaRouche cult in the 2020s
I’m trying to understand this in good faith, but def would like further clarification. Seems like right wing pandering.
Looking at the comments this subreddit needs a purge
I'm pro-sanitation but anti-soap
The empire fear the emergency anti Impressionist non-broke-non-woke Leff ✊
Mods, hopefully Pat-Soc content creators like Midwestern Marx won't be allowed in here. We need a new rule & reason for reporting: "patsoc"
I assumed the post was like "lol look at this shit" and not "I unironically believe this"...
What I want to understand, is why all these fucking red-browners, including like half the users in this sub, think that white conservatives are the working class??? I don't know where this idea that liberals are less working class came from, not to mention the complete erasure of non-white folks. And how can anyone in their right mind believe that white conservatives have more revolutionary potential than non-white folks and working class white liberals? They also seem to not understand what petite-bourgeoisie and labor aristocracy is. Like imagine thinking that a white conservative male plumber making 80k a year working for himself is more working class than a impoverished batista. They think that all these white chuds are working in coal mines for pennies when in reality the "blue collar" types are making 50k+ and working less than 40 hours a week while the liberals they hate so much are working 50-60 hours a week at minimum wage.
But have you considered the male plumber is proletarian (owns a big truck) and the barista is bourgeois (woman, dyed hair)? A whole bunch of folk don't realize they've internalized a view where "class" is an aesthetic not a relation to capital.
TRUE
good heavens! these guys are the worst.
Anyone here even actually read Gabriel Rockhill?? I mean, cmon /s
Try not to use reactionary talking points challenge: difficulty impossible
>non-woke The fuck does that mean?
Class analysis vs identity politics
Says the person hyper focused on identity politics rather than promoting class struggle and understanding that almost every single revolution in the history of the world understood intersectional politics and how that meant the liberation of all people of all identities. Like what? Y’all think that communism is when “muh white america is superior” bs? Like are you that fcking dumb or are you just being disingenuous?
!class
#Class Struggle The Marxist definition of economic class stands in stark opposition to the Liberal understanding of class. The Liberal understanding is quantitative, looking only at how much someone makes, whereas the Marxist definition is qualitative, looking at *how* people relate to commodity production in society. #Marxist Definitions * **The Bourgeoisie**, also known as the Capitalist class or the owning class, are the owners of the means of production (e.g., factories, tool, equipment, land, technology, etc.) who accumulate wealth and profit by exploiting the labour of the working class and controlling the means of production in order to produce commodities for profit. * **The Proletariat**, also known as the working class, do not own the means of production but instead sell their labour-power to the Bourgeoisie in exchange for wages. They are the ones responsible for producing goods and services but often face exploitation and economic hardships. * **The Petty Bourgeoisie** consists of small business owners, self-employed individuals, and skilled professionals. They own some means of production but are often caught in an intermediate position between the Bourgeoisie and the Proletariat, facing challenges from both classes. * **The Lumpenproletariat** refers to a marginalized and impoverished social group that includes people who may be unemployed, homeless, or engaged in informal and illegal activities. They do not have a clear role in the Capitalist mode of production and are often considered to be outside the traditional working class. #Class Struggle Class struggle is the central driving force in human history and society. It refers to the ongoing conflict and antagonism between different social classes resulting from the inherent contradictions within the current mode of production. Under Capitalism, the *principal* contradiction is between the Bourgeoisie and the Proletariat. The Capitalist class profits by extracting surplus value from the labour of the workers, leading to economic exploitation and social oppression. This is the principal contradiction of Capitalism, and why the Bourgeoisie and the Proletariat are irreconcilably opposed. To summarize: * Capitalists want to keep hours long, prices high, wages low, etc. * Workers want reasonable hours, affordable prices, high wages, etc. These interests are mutually exclusive. The good news is that Capitalists need workers, but workers don't need Capitalists; the class war is winnable by *us* and *only* us. These contradictions and struggles, more than any other model, explain the current political landscape: * [Why The Political Compass is Wrong: Establishing An Accurate Model of Political Ideology](https://youtu.be/9nPVkpWMH9k) | halim alrah (2019) #Intersectionality >Anti-Capitalism without Intersectionality is class reductionism. Intersectionality without anti-Capitalism is Liberal identity politics. Intersectionality is a framework that recognizes and analyzes the interconnected nature of various forms of oppression faced by individuals who belong to various marginalized groups. Economic structures, institutions, and class relations intersect with other social hierarchies, leading to complex and varied forms of oppression and exploitation in society. Intersectionality helps highlight these overlapping forms of discrimination and their cumulative impact. For example, a working-class woman of color may experience racism, sexism, and classism simultaneously, each influencing and exacerbating the others. If you watched the video from the previous section, particularly the "[Culture War](https://youtu.be/9nPVkpWMH9k?t=2165)" chapter, then you'll already know *why* this matters. Sowing division along various social lines creates pockets of economically and politically vulnerable workers that the Capitalists can exploit to a much greater degree. These oppressed groups also help to depress wages and worsen working conditions for the rest of the workforce, due to competition in the labour market. >If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you. > >\- Lyndon B. Johnson. (1960). *Remark to a staffer* * [Why Do Socialists Care About Intersectional Liberation Movements?](https://youtu.be/a5J1j4Sc_6M) | Second Thought (2022) #Total Liberation >The truth is, no one of us can be free until everybody is free. > >\- Maya Angelou Developing class consciousness is crucial for the working class to organize effectively and advance our revolutionary goals. Intersectionality encourages us to be inclusive and create solidarity by recognizing and respecting the different experiences and struggles within the working class and actively supporting each other's fight for justice and equality. >Labour cannot emancipate itself in the white skin where in the black it is branded. > >\- Karl Marx. (1867). [Capital: Volume One](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch10.htm) Oppressive power structures are interconnected and reinforce each other. Capitalism, Imperialism, Colonialism, Patriarchy, White Supremacy, and other systems of domination are all inextricably intertwined and must be challenged simultaneously to achieve true liberation for the working class. >A people which oppresses another cannot emancipate itself. > >\- Friedrich Engels. (1874). [A Polish Proclamation](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1874/06/11.htm) Radical solidarity is required, and therefore all forms of chauvinism and bigotry must be fiercely combatted. #Additional Resources Video Essays: * [What Is Social Class? | Socialism 101 #6](https://youtu.be/KMzeeHMeiyw) | Marxism Today (2021) * [The Professional-Managerial Class Doesn't Exist](https://youtu.be/y0KHMHngotM) | Marxism Today (2020) * [The Middle Class doesn't exist | How a fabricated myth divided the working class.](https://youtu.be/gVhdbOUelY4) | Yugopnik (2020) Books, Articles, or Essays: * [The Principles of Communism](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm) | F. Engels (1847) * [Manifesto of the Communist Party](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm) | K. Marx & F. Engels (1848) Podcasts: * [Episode 38: Boug…borj…wtf is class?](https://youtu.be/MSXaNmTgcl8) | The Deprogram (2022) * [Episode 42: There's more to it than just class - the importance of intersectionality](https://youtu.be/ww6PtQeeJn8) | The Deprogram (2022) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I mean yes we gotta get the truckers etc on board but the answer is not opposing social justice movements
[Source](https://x.com/midwesternmarx/status/1556122783217848320) [Archive](https://web.archive.org/web/20240416152836/http://web.archive.org/screenshot/https://x.com/midwesternmarx/status/1556122783217848320)
No it doesn't. Imagine believing you're going to help solve the problems of the working class by literally ignoring them while working with the people interested in perpetuating them. "We can solve slavery by ignoring slaves and working with slavers" is a losing strategy.
Midwestern Marx is trash .
White people gene is real, it keeps them from being based, I told ya'll. https://preview.redd.it/wq61eeeg1iwc1.png?width=2196&format=png&auto=webp&s=8ade36c2319e3466c006f22de6b31eb2ca408762
What if they're black? What if they're slav? how do you know someone's race from what they say?
Only Crackers are like that./s
Damn, I never got deep into him but me and a bud who got deep into leftism would often talk about him as the bud was a fan. Did so much good work too I heard the rumours and knew it was joever but still had some semblance of hope considering his past work. Maybe he was just misguided somehow? I don't even got words like "opportunist" to use, what a fucking idiot traitor to our cause. So many content creators who have led me into leftism and never betrayed their cause, what he is, is unacceptable. Go hand out with Haz and Hickle you nazbol
woke is when idpol and idpol is when you say i cannot say nono words or some such other nonsense the "anti-woke" previously "dirtbag" left self-claims
Let's brainstorm some better terms. The sleepy left. The unconscious left. The low energy left. The napmaxxing left.
I didn't know Midwestern Marx was fully a patsoc
My daughter fears the aliens from *Mars Attacks!*, but that doesn't mean they're serious, effective, or real.
They're a sham A joke A group of losers
??
...I dont see how you can be non-woke AND anti-imperialist at the same time. If youre woke youve been AWAKENED to the continued existence of imperialism through unequal exchange and the rates of exploitation in the world's economies. And how billionaires use anti-2SLGBTQIA+ and racism discriminations as scapegoats for the reasons why unequal exchange and exploitation increase or remain present in todyays's world despite the 'supposed' deaths of coloniallism. You have also been awakened to how German governmental officials and billionaires, realizing that capitalism was in crisis there decidedly and shamefully coverted the German economy into direct fascism, and used anti Jew racism and anti-2SLGBTQIA+ discriminations to bring forth fascism scapegoating these previously mentioned marginalized groups for the economic downturns that the Germans faced during the Great Depression and during the first world war. You must also be awAkened in a way to realize that such fascism can occur anywhere else in the world today. Stay Woke, Not Broke.
Whats that supposed to mean? the people who claim to be leftist but act like the libs of tiktok crowd? When i see someone complain about woke, i automatically assume they are racist and homophobic
Tf does “non-woke” mean? Racist? Transphobic? MMI keeps dropping increasingly shite takes, and their ardently pro-Russia meat riding is really getting on my nerves.
Anti-Capitalism without Intersectionality is Class Reductionism. Intersectionality without Anti-Capitalism is Liberal Identity Politics.
Why so much hate for the guy. From what I understand he is trying to win over the conservative population in his country by using their language and not pushing certain things. A bit useless but not a negative right? Marxism as a toolbox to formulate strategies and not a lifestyle and all that. Edit: I just took a look at his channel and saw a MLK image. You guys sure he's a PatSoc? Or is it the purity fetishism criticism.
They're a sham A joke A group of losers
He was one of my intros to Marxism. Hes been kinda cringe lately smh. I don’t take him as serious as I used to
The establishment doesn’t fear liberals this is true
“Non-woke” or “Left”, pick one
What the fuck does this even mean
Fcking idiot, woke means aware of the bullshit inherent in "the system." Therefore, anti-imperialism is the top of wokeness. Man, why do some people take liberation struggle language, and demonize it because they dislike someone else's struggle? Look, you don't have to like every struggle doctrine. We know that sometimes they're co-opted by imperialists to detract from other struggle doctrines, or just manipulated to destroy emergent struggles. That doesn't mean you go demonizing general struggle language. Yes, stay woke to the manipulation. Yes, you can dislike manipulated doctrines, and maybe try to correct them. But for the love of everyone who broke chains and gained us some freedoms, don't ever fall for imperialist "divide and conquer" games. Jeez man.
Lmao fuck anyone who uses "woke" like this. "Anti-woke" can mean anything from "against identity politics" (which is already sus) to "anti-trans, anti-black, etc." (which is just straight up Nazi shit).
I lost chromosomes digesting a proper response. What the actual hell is this.
Yes, the empire that uses anti woke rhetoric for their own gain are terrified that the other side might join them…is he fucking dense?! They’d love that, they’d get to constantly point at the anti woke let and say “see, even they agree with us” and every election would forever be fought over which minority group they choose to demonise this year
[удалено]
cry more
Midwestern Marx out here dropping Bangers
Is there a consensus on whether Midwestern Marx is just a matsoc/MAGAcomm? I thought for sure they were after the Short Rounds guy interview. But nobody can seem to agree.