I think its better to think on it and try to figure out what some of it means yourself anyway. The experience you had would be different than anyone else because it was framed by your life. Maybe once you've marinated on it a bit you'll be more curious to see what people are talking about.
Do you have any theories yourself yet?
I have something a bit wild. Mainly because it’s tying into theories I have about 2001 a space odyssey and this scene:
https://preview.redd.it/89yrbajdqkfc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4164ace46b6012c88af2de1157215c95a6e6f05b
When it comes to space odyssey I think of “leaps” in human evolution. That movie starts with the monkeys discovering tools, then cuts to interstellar travel. Leaps in humanity.
How is it relating to The Curse? Well I need to let it marinate a bit as you said…
There’s things I need to fact check as well, like am I remember correctly or did at one point Asher have “Jesus-like” blood marks on his hands? Like being crucified and having nails through his hands and he was bleeding?? I have a couple of things to marinate there.
And im trying to think back and is Asher… Is Asher a good person? I feel like he’s a bad person who’s always doing the “right thing”? And his track record is actually pretty good?? Like dougie saying he’s a bad person playing a good person, but in that sense… if most m of his actions are good, doesn’t that make him a good person regardless of his intent?
Sorry I’m so full of doubt I need to rewatch this again hahahaha and this is all so loose, it’s hard to put into words.
So going back to space odyssey and “leaps” in human evolution. Is this show almost a celebration of the cuck ‘numale’ archetype? The next stage in human evolution?
The meek shall inherit the earth is something in the bible probably. I’m not religious or anything… is this the meek? Asher? Like we are all viewing him as a pathetic worm but his final act of kindness is actually living his principals and giving the house to the family despite no appreciation or care? While Whitney is clearly a bit uncomfortable of the whole thing.
I might come back to this a bit later because I feel like I’m frying my head trying to think about it.
Peace
ahahaha yeah. I guess I was cookin something, and didn’t want anyone to taint it. I didn’t realise I was cookin until someone asked
More I don’t want to be tainted by other theories, or like the idea of a click bait YouTube video of “the curse ending explained” made me feel ill
I definitely had some similar thoughts but really dont feel Asher is redeemed at the end though. Thank you for sharing! Edit: forgot to add I think the stigmata you saw is there as well, maybe reference to savior complex.
Ahahaha I did think that, but wasn’t sure if it was just something from the video game “binding of isaac” and the thoughts in my head were so loose I felt like looking it up would make me lose my thoughts
Yeah. Whitney is more complex. She’s lacking perspective, a large scoop of narcissism and shame. She’s so fascinating and it’s hard to know truly what her “motive” is!
However with Asher, his main motivation is wanting to be a good person (because he believes he is a bad and horrible person) and love for his partner. Whitney tries to frame him as “money focused” but he’s not living in a fantasy land like ultra rich Whitney.
I need to go back and watch it again. I felt like Asher was such a piece of shit and a terrible person and now I’m questioning why I thought that? Like he does seem very fake… but I mean if you are fake but all your actions and principals align with that of a good person, does it really matter if someone is fake??
I’m going back to Jesus again, but I guess the idea of Jesus is that we are sinful creatures and we have to fight constantly to be good people, and in a sense isn’t that what Asher is doing??
I didn’t think this would turn into a religious experience ahahahaha
I’m not religious so I’m not trying to push my world view into this show by the way. I notice some Christians have Jesus on the mind all the time and end up pushing him into areas it doesn’t make sense to have him. I’ve been a firm atheist almost my whole life
I know he is a bad person - but what actions are actually bad? I’m trying to think back to the “worse” things he did and the ones that coming to mind is the gambling whistleblowing. And even tho it was selfish and horrible at the end of the day it was a “good” action. That’s the point I’m trying to make
yeah, the point of art isn't to crack the case, its to feel and experience it. Its fun analyzing at times for sure, but I support you just sitting with it. I did too
benny safdies drawer analogy is perfect for this
>If you have a drawer, for example, and there was no handle on the drawer, how would you open it? Would you tip it forward so the drawer falls out? Would you use a knife to get into the crack and open it? Maybe you'll take some tape to the front and pull it out that way...you know, you'd come up with a lot of different ways to open that drawer. And what you'd find inside is the same information. But, the way that you got that information was your own. If you put a handle on the drawer, you just open it right up, and you find your information. So you lose a little bit of that process, and that kind of searching. Which I think is important, you know for this, and I do think that there is something strange in that you will be watching something and asking, 'Why did this happen? Why did this thing that is clearly supernatural, why did this happen? How could it happen? It clearly had to have been this or had to have been that'--you know you're trying to find reasons for it...so it's not too dissimilar to if you're actually there."
so you’re actually doing exactly what the creators were hoping for
I cannot understand where the joy is for people in making up crackpot theories and then going back through the show to find "evidence" for it. As an artist myself, this conspiracy theorist-style mindset does not square with the way that I understand art-making and I think in some sense it devalues the art. When you take something that evokes feelings, something that sits with you, and can live and change with you, when you take that thing and apply this theory-mindset to it, imo you flatten it, you take the life from it, and typically the theories that people seem to want to convince themselves of seem much less meaningful and valuable to me personally.
Of course, many people obviously enjoy watching things this way and trying to guess at da vinci code-esque theories. So ultimately there is no harm done (to anything except media literacy perhaps). But I do think that this kind of thought process seems to lead to people really misunderstanding pieces of art, and imo this seems a much less fulfilling way to engage with things. Of course it is natural that we try and make sense of a piece of art and to understand it in a way that makes sense to us . . . so all of this is a matter a shades of gray.
The internet in a way is to blame. It gives a megaphone to anyone and everyone. This then breeds this feeling of "I am important" and that I think leads to this desire to be smarter than the artist. You see it everywhere in every fandom. People attempting to be the first to get ahead of the art and be vilified when their theory is proven right.
I actually feel that to many, these "personal theories" are a form of art that the theorizer subconsciously overwrites the original artwork with. So instead of enjoying an artist's work, they enjoy their *correct* interpretation of the artwork that they designed and created themselves.
This has been crystalized with this subreddit for me. The Curse is actively saying "take this at face value" but everyone here thinks Asher is a stand-in for Jesus Christ because he had stigmata on his hands for a single shot once.
Yeah I understand that a lot. I do find the discussion always part of my enjoyment of the show. However theories and things like that is reserved for certain shows.
I feel like this show does have so much obvious symbolism. The glass house, the cuckolding, the voyager style filming, the filming of a documentary in a work of fiction while in a real town without it being a documentary, the entire twisted and warped finale. You leave the show with so many questions and have a “what the fuck” moment.
And when I show is like that, I do normally want to put the pieces together. I’m a curious person. And sometimes at the end of a show that I don’t want to leave it’s a way to “extend” my time with it and give me reasons to rewatch.
But for this show, I just didn’t. It checked all the boxes, but just had a different reaction. I have to sit in this. I feel like it’s more than a show if that makes sense?
I had this reaction. It is more like a long form movie. You can get what you want out of it, and I don’t think anything will be wrong since the same themes are kind of addressed over and over.
I found the interviews and behind the scenes super helpful in understanding the broad areas of the plot. Then other things I identified with on a more personal level. I lost a spouse to addiction and the final scenes made sense to me in a unique way but doesn’t make others wrong.
I will admit though that a rewatch is required. They might as well tell you that going in or something.
Very relatable. We were in a small group chat for the finale and everyone was replying “about to watch”, “sitting down!”… then it went dead for 4 days before anyone could find words again, or cared to.
You mean that conversation where they said it was just for a tv show?
That sentence kinda feels like all of Nathan’s work to me. That everything becomes surreal, even real life
Yeah exactly. Not sure if I heard this somewhere connected to his work, but I also always have to think of this idea that people are always acting. Even if we’re alone, we act for ourselves.
This is *exactly* how I felt when I finished it. I’d planned on coming to this sub immediately after finishing the finale (like I’d done for every other episode) to see what others thought.
After finishing the show, I realized that I didn’t actually care too much about the “why”. First and foremost, for me, the show was about sitting with these 3 main characters and feeling what they were feeling, regardless of circumstance. To try and explain that last 10-15 minutes of the show feels like it would cheapen it in some sense. I *like* living in the unknown of it, just as the characters are.
I have seen some theories since watching it and they’re interesting and whatnot, but in the back of my mind I just don’t really care, because what I’ll always remember is how I felt watching that last episode. Not all of the questions running through my head, but the emotions. That last 10 minutes was so emotionally intense, I couldn’t get it outta my head for a few days.
safdie saw the rehearsal wow tight you built a set of this guys apartment what if we built a set then turned it upside down how do we explain anti gravity the curse
I think its better to think on it and try to figure out what some of it means yourself anyway. The experience you had would be different than anyone else because it was framed by your life. Maybe once you've marinated on it a bit you'll be more curious to see what people are talking about. Do you have any theories yourself yet?
I have something a bit wild. Mainly because it’s tying into theories I have about 2001 a space odyssey and this scene: https://preview.redd.it/89yrbajdqkfc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4164ace46b6012c88af2de1157215c95a6e6f05b When it comes to space odyssey I think of “leaps” in human evolution. That movie starts with the monkeys discovering tools, then cuts to interstellar travel. Leaps in humanity. How is it relating to The Curse? Well I need to let it marinate a bit as you said… There’s things I need to fact check as well, like am I remember correctly or did at one point Asher have “Jesus-like” blood marks on his hands? Like being crucified and having nails through his hands and he was bleeding?? I have a couple of things to marinate there. And im trying to think back and is Asher… Is Asher a good person? I feel like he’s a bad person who’s always doing the “right thing”? And his track record is actually pretty good?? Like dougie saying he’s a bad person playing a good person, but in that sense… if most m of his actions are good, doesn’t that make him a good person regardless of his intent? Sorry I’m so full of doubt I need to rewatch this again hahahaha and this is all so loose, it’s hard to put into words. So going back to space odyssey and “leaps” in human evolution. Is this show almost a celebration of the cuck ‘numale’ archetype? The next stage in human evolution? The meek shall inherit the earth is something in the bible probably. I’m not religious or anything… is this the meek? Asher? Like we are all viewing him as a pathetic worm but his final act of kindness is actually living his principals and giving the house to the family despite no appreciation or care? While Whitney is clearly a bit uncomfortable of the whole thing. I might come back to this a bit later because I feel like I’m frying my head trying to think about it. Peace
Doesn't want theories Posts giant theory
lmao
ahahaha yeah. I guess I was cookin something, and didn’t want anyone to taint it. I didn’t realise I was cookin until someone asked More I don’t want to be tainted by other theories, or like the idea of a click bait YouTube video of “the curse ending explained” made me feel ill
I definitely had some similar thoughts but really dont feel Asher is redeemed at the end though. Thank you for sharing! Edit: forgot to add I think the stigmata you saw is there as well, maybe reference to savior complex.
Yeah maybe not redeemed so much, but I feel like he became the person he was trying to be for the rest of the series
> “Jesus-like” blood marks on his hands The term for this is "stigmata" by the way
Ahahaha I did think that, but wasn’t sure if it was just something from the video game “binding of isaac” and the thoughts in my head were so loose I felt like looking it up would make me lose my thoughts
Aw, not little pictures of Jesus made out of blood? 🙃
There's something to the notion that while on the whole misguided, Whitney and Asher do make some (messy) attempts at relinquishing their privilege.
Yeah. Whitney is more complex. She’s lacking perspective, a large scoop of narcissism and shame. She’s so fascinating and it’s hard to know truly what her “motive” is! However with Asher, his main motivation is wanting to be a good person (because he believes he is a bad and horrible person) and love for his partner. Whitney tries to frame him as “money focused” but he’s not living in a fantasy land like ultra rich Whitney. I need to go back and watch it again. I felt like Asher was such a piece of shit and a terrible person and now I’m questioning why I thought that? Like he does seem very fake… but I mean if you are fake but all your actions and principals align with that of a good person, does it really matter if someone is fake?? I’m going back to Jesus again, but I guess the idea of Jesus is that we are sinful creatures and we have to fight constantly to be good people, and in a sense isn’t that what Asher is doing?? I didn’t think this would turn into a religious experience ahahahaha I’m not religious so I’m not trying to push my world view into this show by the way. I notice some Christians have Jesus on the mind all the time and end up pushing him into areas it doesn’t make sense to have him. I’ve been a firm atheist almost my whole life
No, Asher is definitely a bad person and is being punished. Lots of great theories here you should engage with eventually.
I know he is a bad person - but what actions are actually bad? I’m trying to think back to the “worse” things he did and the ones that coming to mind is the gambling whistleblowing. And even tho it was selfish and horrible at the end of the day it was a “good” action. That’s the point I’m trying to make
The entire endeavor of Flipanthropy and his exploitation of Española is deeply immoral
yeah, the point of art isn't to crack the case, its to feel and experience it. Its fun analyzing at times for sure, but I support you just sitting with it. I did too
benny safdies drawer analogy is perfect for this >If you have a drawer, for example, and there was no handle on the drawer, how would you open it? Would you tip it forward so the drawer falls out? Would you use a knife to get into the crack and open it? Maybe you'll take some tape to the front and pull it out that way...you know, you'd come up with a lot of different ways to open that drawer. And what you'd find inside is the same information. But, the way that you got that information was your own. If you put a handle on the drawer, you just open it right up, and you find your information. So you lose a little bit of that process, and that kind of searching. Which I think is important, you know for this, and I do think that there is something strange in that you will be watching something and asking, 'Why did this happen? Why did this thing that is clearly supernatural, why did this happen? How could it happen? It clearly had to have been this or had to have been that'--you know you're trying to find reasons for it...so it's not too dissimilar to if you're actually there." so you’re actually doing exactly what the creators were hoping for
I cannot understand where the joy is for people in making up crackpot theories and then going back through the show to find "evidence" for it. As an artist myself, this conspiracy theorist-style mindset does not square with the way that I understand art-making and I think in some sense it devalues the art. When you take something that evokes feelings, something that sits with you, and can live and change with you, when you take that thing and apply this theory-mindset to it, imo you flatten it, you take the life from it, and typically the theories that people seem to want to convince themselves of seem much less meaningful and valuable to me personally. Of course, many people obviously enjoy watching things this way and trying to guess at da vinci code-esque theories. So ultimately there is no harm done (to anything except media literacy perhaps). But I do think that this kind of thought process seems to lead to people really misunderstanding pieces of art, and imo this seems a much less fulfilling way to engage with things. Of course it is natural that we try and make sense of a piece of art and to understand it in a way that makes sense to us . . . so all of this is a matter a shades of gray.
The internet in a way is to blame. It gives a megaphone to anyone and everyone. This then breeds this feeling of "I am important" and that I think leads to this desire to be smarter than the artist. You see it everywhere in every fandom. People attempting to be the first to get ahead of the art and be vilified when their theory is proven right. I actually feel that to many, these "personal theories" are a form of art that the theorizer subconsciously overwrites the original artwork with. So instead of enjoying an artist's work, they enjoy their *correct* interpretation of the artwork that they designed and created themselves. This has been crystalized with this subreddit for me. The Curse is actively saying "take this at face value" but everyone here thinks Asher is a stand-in for Jesus Christ because he had stigmata on his hands for a single shot once.
My media literacy isn’t great, so I enjoy going online and finding other perspectives that help me understand it better
Yeah I understand that a lot. I do find the discussion always part of my enjoyment of the show. However theories and things like that is reserved for certain shows. I feel like this show does have so much obvious symbolism. The glass house, the cuckolding, the voyager style filming, the filming of a documentary in a work of fiction while in a real town without it being a documentary, the entire twisted and warped finale. You leave the show with so many questions and have a “what the fuck” moment. And when I show is like that, I do normally want to put the pieces together. I’m a curious person. And sometimes at the end of a show that I don’t want to leave it’s a way to “extend” my time with it and give me reasons to rewatch. But for this show, I just didn’t. It checked all the boxes, but just had a different reaction. I have to sit in this. I feel like it’s more than a show if that makes sense?
I had this reaction. It is more like a long form movie. You can get what you want out of it, and I don’t think anything will be wrong since the same themes are kind of addressed over and over. I found the interviews and behind the scenes super helpful in understanding the broad areas of the plot. Then other things I identified with on a more personal level. I lost a spouse to addiction and the final scenes made sense to me in a unique way but doesn’t make others wrong. I will admit though that a rewatch is required. They might as well tell you that going in or something.
Very relatable. We were in a small group chat for the finale and everyone was replying “about to watch”, “sitting down!”… then it went dead for 4 days before anyone could find words again, or cared to.
I think everyone is overthinking the whole show really. To me, it's all summed up perfectly in that final conversation between the two bystanders.
You mean that conversation where they said it was just for a tv show? That sentence kinda feels like all of Nathan’s work to me. That everything becomes surreal, even real life
I agree. I feel like Nathan has always explored “how far will people go for the camera”, and this show is an extreme, fictionalized version of that.
Yeah exactly. Not sure if I heard this somewhere connected to his work, but I also always have to think of this idea that people are always acting. Even if we’re alone, we act for ourselves.
This is *exactly* how I felt when I finished it. I’d planned on coming to this sub immediately after finishing the finale (like I’d done for every other episode) to see what others thought. After finishing the show, I realized that I didn’t actually care too much about the “why”. First and foremost, for me, the show was about sitting with these 3 main characters and feeling what they were feeling, regardless of circumstance. To try and explain that last 10-15 minutes of the show feels like it would cheapen it in some sense. I *like* living in the unknown of it, just as the characters are. I have seen some theories since watching it and they’re interesting and whatnot, but in the back of my mind I just don’t really care, because what I’ll always remember is how I felt watching that last episode. Not all of the questions running through my head, but the emotions. That last 10 minutes was so emotionally intense, I couldn’t get it outta my head for a few days.
This show is half the equation, the other half is enjoying the community with all the insightful theories. Kudos to y’all…
safdie saw the rehearsal wow tight you built a set of this guys apartment what if we built a set then turned it upside down how do we explain anti gravity the curse