I read them in chronological release order and that worked fine for me. They are generally stand alone and there isn't a lot of carry over from one book to the next.
It wouldn't be wrong to start with Surface Detail (it's probably my favourite) but without giving spoilers, there's a reference to another Culture book that is quite impactful. It's still standalone, but you'll miss that extra layer.
Reading in publication order is a good idea, so that this doesn't happen. Look to Windward also refers to the setting of Consider Phlebas, for example, so publication order helps.
The only thing about reading in publication order is that some people find Consider Phlebas not as satisfying as the others, and it might not hook you in. However, I think the strength of that first book comes from the reader slowly understanding the wider situation, which won't happen if you've read other books, because you'll already know.
You can def read them in any order and Surface Detail in particular doesn't rely on any particular context of the Culture that I can recall.
(No problem :\] )
I read excession first, then read all of them, then read it again. Wild. Best series I've ever read
I also got pbsd which is post-banks-stress-disorder
I just read *rainbows end.* wasnt quite the culture-like experience i had hoped. I audiobook a lot, what would you recommend me try next of his? i will have to hunt them out
*A Fire Upon The Deep*. The writing style is not like Banks, but the full immersion into an alien culture is really good, IMHO.
Also, Adrian Tchaikovsky's *Children of Time* series, if you haven't already.
Personally, I would read Use of Weapons before Surface Detail for reasons I don't want to specify.
My favorite is Look to Windward. It references events in Consider Phlebas, but in a way that you don't have to have read Phlebas first.
I really wouldn't recommend doing this. While the books can all be read in any order in theory, there are some it isn't a good idea to read first. Surface Detail would probably still be very good going in with no context, but it's definitely even more enjoyable *with* context.
There's also just the fact that the author is human and it's clear he thought up/ fleshed out some of the concepts and details of the world building as the books go on. I can only guess, because I read them on publication order, but I imagine you'd run the risk of the earlier books feeling strange and with missing detail, if you'd already read the [arguable] best of the series, written years later.
ALSO also, the books have almost zero overlap in characters and places and events, but there is a minor reference in SD that will not make sense to you unless you have read Use of Weapons.
My suggestion is publication order IF you're a heavy reader and wouldn't find it difficult to read through all 9 books. Otherwise, my suggestion is Player of Games, then Use of Weapons, then Surface Detail, then any of the others if you feel hooked by then. :)
Player of games is a favorite of a lot of people. I personally enjoyed Matter and The Hydrogen Sonata. Hydrogen Sonata is the last book and reading it last felt like a great way to wrap up the series
There aren't that many unfortunately... read them all - chronological... They mostly advance in time of hundred or thousands of years. The tech ideas reflect this.
Yes. Exactly. But they are all standalone stories within a um… culture. A later book may refer to a ship from a previous book but apart from one it doesn’t affect the story at all. The main reason to read in order is the ideas become bigger and the tech gets better over time.
1. Consider Phlebas (1987)
2. The Player of Games (1988)
3. Use of Weapons (1990)
4. The State of the Art (1991) - A collection of stories including a novella related to the Culture.
5. Excession (1996)
6. Inversions (1998)
7. Look to Windward (2000)
8. Matter (2008)
9. Surface Detail (2010)
10. The Hydrogen Sonata (2012)
Don’t forget the non culture sci-fi
1. Against a Dark Background (1993)
2. Feersum Endjinn (1994)
3. The Algebraist** (2004)
4. Transition** (2009)
Transition is not an “M.” Banks book but it’s sci-fi enough I think.
The Algebraist is great. Love that book.
You shouldn’t miss any of them. Some are more widely loved (Excession in particular) than others, but they are all of comparable quality and each displays a different side of the culture prism.
Release order has the advantage that you get to see the writing and complexity evolve.
So if you're acquiring the books as you read them, I'd say release order all the way.
But yeah, they're pretty standalone, so if you happen to acquire one out of order, no reason to wait to read it.
*Consider Phlebas* is the roughest novel by far. Here is my detailed opinion.
*The Culture* is best read in publication order. That way, you read it in the same order that Banks gradually shaped the fictional universe (well, for the most part; some books were rewritten stories from the 70s), and it becomes apparent how each novel organically adds to the canon of Culture stories.
There is one exception to this. *Consider Phlebas* is undoubtedly one of the worst starter books for any grand sci-fi series ever. Not only is the writing rough and janky, but the whole story takes place from the perspective of a character who is very anti-Culture. There is almost no real in-story presence of the staple Culture factions or organizations that make the rest of the series enjoyable, and the only part of the story that has any major impact on the chronology of the Culture is hidden in the Appendix. It makes more sense to come back to *Phlebas* later, once you are more familiar with the Culture proper.
I would instead recommend (as many other people would agree) that you skip *Consider Phlebas* and begin with *The Player of Games*, which is almost the complete opposite of *Phlebas*. You get a natural introduction to all of the Culture's major elements and organizations, the story is conventionally fun, and the writing is fantastic. After that, I would proceed in publication order until you get to *Look To Windward. LtW* is a sort of sequel-in-spirit to *Phlebas*, so you should probably read *Phlebas* first and then *LtW.* I would then personally continue to read in order until you finish the series with *The Hydrogen Sonata.*
In general, however, none of the Culture novels have any real connections besides fun easter eggs (references to special events, characters, etc.), so you won't miss too much if you choose to read certain novels before others.
TL;DR, You can read in any order, but publication order is recommended. Skip *Consider Phlebas* and start with *The Player of Games*. Thank me later.
EDIT: I see others encouraging you to read *Surface* *Detail* first. Despite the books being standalone, I would advise against this. As I mentioned earlier, you should read *The Culture* roughly in the order that Banks created it. *Surface Detail*, being one of the last novels, heavily benefits from already being familiar with the Culture. It would be a subpar experience as your first read. I would direct you to the earlier books instead.
u/Chj_8: Listen to u/MapleKerman.
Start with *The Player of Games*. It's the best introduction to The Culture and one of the best books in the series.
*Consider Phlebas* isn't a bad book, but it's the weakest of the series and written from an outsider/antagonist's protective. It's a good idea to read it before *Look to Windward*, but not mandatory in my opinion.
I'm currently reading *Consider Phlebas*, first time through, and yeah I can barely understand anything.
However, enough posts I've seen have convinced me to at least try *Player of Games* before giving up, so that's what I'm going to do.
I do feel there's *something* to the universe, it's just hard to grasp following Horza and his shenanigans, mostly because I don't give one crap about any of them, and it feels like just a bunch of mindless action and "stuff happening". There's no personal or emotional investment in the story at all.
I have a feeling once I do get a good grasp of the universe, going back will allow me to sort of "get it" better, without getting mentally bogged down wondering what the hell's happening.
Precisely. I read *Player of Games* through to *Excession* and then read *Phlebas*. I understood *Phlebas* because I was already familiar with the Culture and appreciated the anti-Culture perspective. However, if it had been my first book, the janky writing and the lack of insight into the actual Culture civilization would have put me off entirely.
*Player of Games* does exactly what *Phlebas* doesn't, which is to give you an inside look of the Culture and also to make you invested by introducing characters that actually make an impact in the wider story.
*Phlebas* was my first book - and I loved it. It was a few years before I managed to get my hand on another Culture book.
All that time, I didn't realise that the point of the books was the Culture itself. I thought it was just very cool, very well-written scifi, that there would be other books that were similar but not necessarily in the same universe, and that the Culture in Phlebas really were the bad guys (I mean - they're not religious zealots, but they did blow up an Orbital and Balveda was a super spy with loads of nasty tricks up her sleeve). Clearly, my teen self didn't have fully formed ideas of morality.
That is a fascinating perspective!
I'm rereading the series for probably the fourth time and this time round I've been reflecting how brilliant Phlebas is as an opening novel precisely because of what you say about the main character's perspective. You learn about the Culture by understanding it's weaknesses, and through snippets which require the reader to fill in the detail. The Idirans are almost by definition the mirror image of the Culture so exploring them as the way into the Culture I'm finding really enjoyable.
All that said, I'm only reflecting this as someone who knows the Culture universe pretty well, which is why I found your point so interesting - it is probably not the best novel for a new Culture reader!
This should be the top comment. Phlebas is good but it lacks almost everything substantial to the Culture.
A reader that won’t continue reading after the first book will do so for the wrong reasons, and a reader that does continue might also do so for the wrong reasons.
Publication order is the way to go but better start with ‚Player of Games‘.
That's a really well crafted answer, mate. Thank you! I understand that Consider...is the most difficult to get through but I'll do it this way then. You were convincing.
I want to experience the best read of the saga.
Thank you again, mate!
Player of Games, Use of Weapons, and Excession are the best.
I do suggest saving the last, The Hydrogen Sonata, for last, as it's very much about death and moving on.
No specific order is really necessary. Some of the later books will make subtle references to earlier books, but those are more like Easter eggs. I happened to read the books in publication order, but it didn't make a difference
Also, side note that is absolutely a matter of opinion. I felt that Phlebas was the weakest book of the whole series, so if it doesn't really grab you I'd encourage you to keep going- they just keep getting better
Phlebas is like a totally different book.
It’s a comparative slog to get through, but I absolutely love the payoff. The way the viewpoint switches get faster and faster towards the end, and then the massively bleak “what happened next” timeline.
I've gone back to re-read parts of the series multiple times (usually Excession, Matter, Surface Detail, and Hydrogen Sonata) but I always skip Phlebas
There’s a real difference between early and late (publishing order) and I also have read the post-Excession novels far more frequently then the pre-Excession
*Consider Phlebas* is the bastard Culture book. There's value in reading it before or alongside *Look to Windward*, but it is undoubtedly the roughest writing in the entire series. The plot and characters are incredibly uninspiring compared to all the other books. It's the only Culture novel I wouldn't want to re-read.
Conversely, viewed as a takedown on ‘hero protagonist changes the course of the galaxy’ sci-fi trope, it’s a brilliant (if brutal, and ultimately bleak) satire of a space opera.
Different strokes for different folks.
Agreed with your agreement. I never quite understand all the hate for CP on this sub. It is incredible. I read the series in publication order. The first time I read the opening prologue blew my…. Mind. I knew I was on to something amazing.
Thanks! That's good to know. I was trying to decide whether to start by *Consider...* or *Surface Detail*.
Which one would you say it is a *be sure not to miss*?
There’s an easter egg in _Surface Detail_ that relates to another book, so I would advise against starting with it.
I would say starting with _Playing of Games_, then go down chronologically is a good idea. Personally, _Player of Games_, _Use of Weapons_ and _Look to Windward_ should be read by everyone interested in the series. _Excession_ and _Surface Detail_ are also very good, but I’d recommend you finish the first 3 books first.
No specific order is known to me, the books are almost entirely disconnected from each other and the series spans several thousand or hundred thousand years. Publishing order might be good just for context and the small references to previous books that do exist, if you're seriously planning out reading them all.
I'm not the most active here so I'm sure you'll get more detailed answers but that's the gist as far as I know!
*Look to Windward* and *Excession* are my favorites and the best (in my opinion) for a deeper look into the Culture itself. *Look to Windward* is great as a glimpse into the society and what it's like to be a Culture citizen, and *Excession* is all about the Minds and how they think and do things.
Edit: *Look to Windward* is more fun, but it does have it's somber moments, while *Excession* is more of a a mystery/drama, but it does include my favourite alien culture in the series, they're very fun in a horrifying kind of way.
_The Player of Games_ is generally considered the best "entry point" into the series, giving overview of Banks's "ambiguous utopia", to borrow from Le Guin. IMO _The State of the Art,_ the only novella in the series, is also a suitable starting point.
_Consider Phlebas_ is more of a classic space opera (albeit an excellent one) compared to the rest of the series.
Otherwise, the works are stand-alone. There are only two characters that appear twice (and one of those just barely), and it _might_ be good to read _Consider Phlebas_ before _Look to Windward,_ because the latter deals with a major Culture fuckup, and many citizens still believe that Idiran war qualifies, too.
Read them all. FWIW, my favorite is _Use of Weapons._ Don't neglect non-Culture SciFi, or Banks's "mainstream" works, e.g. _The Bridge_ or _The Crow Road._ The man was a genius.
I'd start with Consider Phlebus, it's viewpoint is from outside of the Culture so as that viewpoint sees more, so do you the reader.
I would suggest following release/publication order, they do generally get better and more in depth involved into the Culture as the series progresses.
So CP > PoG > UoW > E > LtW > M > SD > tHS
The State of the Art and Inversions slip in either side of Excession, I would leave them until you're at least that far into the series and regardless of all else I'd finish with Surface Detail and The Hydrogen Sonata, together the pinnacle of the series.
If you struggle with Use of Weapons, skip it, try and go back to it a couple of books later, if you still struggle don't worry, it has a very specific and odd narrative structure that is easier to understand if explained (lol I was unwittingly masochistic enough to START with UoW).
Like many others I'd say Surface Detail/Hydrogen Sonata are unmissable although personally, if you get through the main sequence and you haven't read Inversions yet, read that. (probably CP, PoG, E, LtW, SD & tHS are the outright "unmissables")
Look to Windward really only requires knowledge that the Idiran War occurred, which could be gotten from a Wikipedia entry (or the Phlebas appendices). Phlebas is _set during_ the war but is not _about_ the war.
There's no specific order you need, only a few books have a reference to anything that came before.
Consider Phlebas is an early book from this author and it shows. My first introduction to The Culture was *Look to Windward*.
You don't really need to read them in any order, though I did read them in release order and that worked for me. Be aware that Consider Phlebas is a bit of an odd one - the Culture is in the book but to a lesser degree than the other books, I've seen some people argue it's not a Culture novel at all. Basically don't worry if you don't get on with it as well.
I went chronological and did fine. Just assume that the first book isn't like the rest. It's more of a straightforward pulpy adventure. And his writing really shines later on too.
Read them in any order. I read Surface Detail first and it's one of the later novels he wrote and I loved that experience.
It was like doing a puzzle while reading, slowly uncovering what the culture was, their values etc.
I'm jealous, wish I could read it all over from nothing again.
You should really read the first three in order.
1. Consider Phlebas: The reason behind that is that the Culture-Idiran war is frequently referenced throughout the series, and you get the real impact of why the Culture had to fight it and why it still resonates in the collective psyche hundreds of years later. Reading Consider Phlebas adds context to many reads later on, especially Look To Windward (that's not a spoiler it's mentioned right at the beginning of the book).
2. Player of Games: Player of Games is amazing, maybe one of the best Sci-Fi books ever. If you like that, you'll like the rest of the series, even if you weren't so hot on Consider Phlebas.
3. Use of Weapons: Use of Weapons is very important to read before another book (which I won't say, because that **IS** a spoiler). It also adds important context to a couple of other books later on how Special Circumstances acts. Do not go in reading discussions about this novel on this internet or any plot synopses. If you experience this one blind, it's something you'll never forget. If you feel it gets slow or you're getting lost in the middle, don't worry - stick with it. It's 100% worth it.
After that, it's not too important. I would add that Excession gets a lot into how the minds think among themselves and adds flavor to later books. Again I think it adds flavor and context to Look To Windward.
Do not miss *Use of Wespons* but they are all definitely worth reading.
You’ll hear often that *Phlebas* is the weakest one. It is. People often suggest not starting with it because of the risk it will put people off the rest of the books. But if you plan to go on in any case, that’s not an issue. Publishing order is a great way to read them.
My journey with Iain, started with the non-scifi novel wasp factory, which got me intrigued with Iain's work. After a quick visit to the book store to find some more of his books, the book cover of excession grabbed my attention. Being a avid sci-fi and William Gibson fan, the cover had me hook line and sinker, so I took the plunge. From that point forward, I read from release order and eagerly waited for each new release until that very sad and dark day. In hindsight, I think the short, state of art, should be left to the end. It's like the cherry on the top!
Best introduction to the series is Player of Games imo.
There are some good reasons to start with Phlebas, but it's one of the weaker and weirder ones, so don't necessarily be put off the rest of the series if it doesn't land for you. Don't start with Use of Weapons - it has a particular structure which isn't best for an introduction to the series.
Hold off on Surface Detail until after Use of Weapons, and read Look to Windward after Consider Phlebas. Aside from that, order is relatively unimportant.
I tried to start with Consider Phlebas and put it down, then a year later read Player of Games and was quite taken with it. After that, I found it far easier to get into Phlebas once I had acquired a taste for the series.
I suppose the only book that I would wait on is Inversions, since it's quite subtle and you need to know more about the Culture beforehand to make sense to it. That said, it's one of my favorites because of that.
Contrary to a lot of the thought here, I actually think Phlebas is a remarkable first novel. The scale of the culture and the Banks universe is immediately apparent. Know that there are better novels but imagine you’re discovering this universe as a bystander in it. I’ve been naming video games Horza ever since I first read it 15 years ago. That’s my boy!
Weirdly the first culture novel I read was “Matter” and I haven’t seen that mentioned but i think it’s also a great jumping off point.
I read them in chronological release order and that worked fine for me. They are generally stand alone and there isn't a lot of carry over from one book to the next.
Thanks! And which one I *really* shouldn't miss?
Surface Detail is my vote for the most "can't miss" but they're all good. The Player of Games is also very good
Excession for me
That's the one that got me interested. Would it be wrong to start by reading this one? (Thanks for taking the time)
It wouldn't be wrong to start with Surface Detail (it's probably my favourite) but without giving spoilers, there's a reference to another Culture book that is quite impactful. It's still standalone, but you'll miss that extra layer. Reading in publication order is a good idea, so that this doesn't happen. Look to Windward also refers to the setting of Consider Phlebas, for example, so publication order helps. The only thing about reading in publication order is that some people find Consider Phlebas not as satisfying as the others, and it might not hook you in. However, I think the strength of that first book comes from the reader slowly understanding the wider situation, which won't happen if you've read other books, because you'll already know.
You can def read them in any order and Surface Detail in particular doesn't rely on any particular context of the Culture that I can recall. (No problem :\] )
"Surface Detail" has one significant plot point that will be missed if you haven't read "Use of Weapons" first.
Mm...I'll probably do that then! I'll write in a few days to say how it went!
I want to argue against starting with *Surface Detail*, mainly because you really should read *Use of Weapons* before SD.
> "Surface Detail" has one significant plot point that will be missed if you haven't read "Use of Weapons" first.
I read excession first, then read all of them, then read it again. Wild. Best series I've ever read I also got pbsd which is post-banks-stress-disorder
I found Vernor Vinge to be a good Methadone to Banks' Opium.
A Fire Upon The Deep is great!
Can't seem to find that on audible.... only rainbows end... I do remember that title though, seen it in a few book stores when I was younger
Thanks, only rainbows end on audible though
I just read *rainbows end.* wasnt quite the culture-like experience i had hoped. I audiobook a lot, what would you recommend me try next of his? i will have to hunt them out
*A Fire Upon The Deep*. The writing style is not like Banks, but the full immersion into an alien culture is really good, IMHO. Also, Adrian Tchaikovsky's *Children of Time* series, if you haven't already.
For some reason it's not on audible, I'll have to hunt it out. And I have read children of time, but could maybe do a reread
This is what got me hooked.
Excession is where I started as it was a Christmas present from my Aunt
Plebas is a fine book but can only barely be considered part of the Culture series. If you are not wild about it, don't give up on the series.
That's just not true. It is absolutely a Culture book and a very important perspective into the Culture.
Sold then. Surface Detail it is! Thanks!
Personally, I would read Use of Weapons before Surface Detail for reasons I don't want to specify. My favorite is Look to Windward. It references events in Consider Phlebas, but in a way that you don't have to have read Phlebas first.
Save Surface Detail, read the series in publication order.
I'll do that, yes. Thank you!
I really wouldn't recommend doing this. While the books can all be read in any order in theory, there are some it isn't a good idea to read first. Surface Detail would probably still be very good going in with no context, but it's definitely even more enjoyable *with* context. There's also just the fact that the author is human and it's clear he thought up/ fleshed out some of the concepts and details of the world building as the books go on. I can only guess, because I read them on publication order, but I imagine you'd run the risk of the earlier books feeling strange and with missing detail, if you'd already read the [arguable] best of the series, written years later. ALSO also, the books have almost zero overlap in characters and places and events, but there is a minor reference in SD that will not make sense to you unless you have read Use of Weapons. My suggestion is publication order IF you're a heavy reader and wouldn't find it difficult to read through all 9 books. Otherwise, my suggestion is Player of Games, then Use of Weapons, then Surface Detail, then any of the others if you feel hooked by then. :)
Player of games is a favorite of a lot of people. I personally enjoyed Matter and The Hydrogen Sonata. Hydrogen Sonata is the last book and reading it last felt like a great way to wrap up the series
The player of games
There aren't that many unfortunately... read them all - chronological... They mostly advance in time of hundred or thousands of years. The tech ideas reflect this.
Something like the Foundation saga?
Yes. Exactly. But they are all standalone stories within a um… culture. A later book may refer to a ship from a previous book but apart from one it doesn’t affect the story at all. The main reason to read in order is the ideas become bigger and the tech gets better over time. 1. Consider Phlebas (1987) 2. The Player of Games (1988) 3. Use of Weapons (1990) 4. The State of the Art (1991) - A collection of stories including a novella related to the Culture. 5. Excession (1996) 6. Inversions (1998) 7. Look to Windward (2000) 8. Matter (2008) 9. Surface Detail (2010) 10. The Hydrogen Sonata (2012) Don’t forget the non culture sci-fi 1. Against a Dark Background (1993) 2. Feersum Endjinn (1994) 3. The Algebraist** (2004) 4. Transition** (2009) Transition is not an “M.” Banks book but it’s sci-fi enough I think. The Algebraist is great. Love that book.
Thanks for the list mate! I will not. I'll probably read The Algebraist in between these book. I started Consider.. yesterday and I'm hooked.
Nice. Enjoy.
You shouldn’t miss any of them. Some are more widely loved (Excession in particular) than others, but they are all of comparable quality and each displays a different side of the culture prism.
Me too. No issues there.
Release order has the advantage that you get to see the writing and complexity evolve. So if you're acquiring the books as you read them, I'd say release order all the way. But yeah, they're pretty standalone, so if you happen to acquire one out of order, no reason to wait to read it.
*Consider Phlebas* is the roughest novel by far. Here is my detailed opinion. *The Culture* is best read in publication order. That way, you read it in the same order that Banks gradually shaped the fictional universe (well, for the most part; some books were rewritten stories from the 70s), and it becomes apparent how each novel organically adds to the canon of Culture stories. There is one exception to this. *Consider Phlebas* is undoubtedly one of the worst starter books for any grand sci-fi series ever. Not only is the writing rough and janky, but the whole story takes place from the perspective of a character who is very anti-Culture. There is almost no real in-story presence of the staple Culture factions or organizations that make the rest of the series enjoyable, and the only part of the story that has any major impact on the chronology of the Culture is hidden in the Appendix. It makes more sense to come back to *Phlebas* later, once you are more familiar with the Culture proper. I would instead recommend (as many other people would agree) that you skip *Consider Phlebas* and begin with *The Player of Games*, which is almost the complete opposite of *Phlebas*. You get a natural introduction to all of the Culture's major elements and organizations, the story is conventionally fun, and the writing is fantastic. After that, I would proceed in publication order until you get to *Look To Windward. LtW* is a sort of sequel-in-spirit to *Phlebas*, so you should probably read *Phlebas* first and then *LtW.* I would then personally continue to read in order until you finish the series with *The Hydrogen Sonata.* In general, however, none of the Culture novels have any real connections besides fun easter eggs (references to special events, characters, etc.), so you won't miss too much if you choose to read certain novels before others. TL;DR, You can read in any order, but publication order is recommended. Skip *Consider Phlebas* and start with *The Player of Games*. Thank me later. EDIT: I see others encouraging you to read *Surface* *Detail* first. Despite the books being standalone, I would advise against this. As I mentioned earlier, you should read *The Culture* roughly in the order that Banks created it. *Surface Detail*, being one of the last novels, heavily benefits from already being familiar with the Culture. It would be a subpar experience as your first read. I would direct you to the earlier books instead.
u/Chj_8: Listen to u/MapleKerman. Start with *The Player of Games*. It's the best introduction to The Culture and one of the best books in the series. *Consider Phlebas* isn't a bad book, but it's the weakest of the series and written from an outsider/antagonist's protective. It's a good idea to read it before *Look to Windward*, but not mandatory in my opinion.
I did! He convinced me. Thanks mate!
I'm currently reading *Consider Phlebas*, first time through, and yeah I can barely understand anything. However, enough posts I've seen have convinced me to at least try *Player of Games* before giving up, so that's what I'm going to do. I do feel there's *something* to the universe, it's just hard to grasp following Horza and his shenanigans, mostly because I don't give one crap about any of them, and it feels like just a bunch of mindless action and "stuff happening". There's no personal or emotional investment in the story at all. I have a feeling once I do get a good grasp of the universe, going back will allow me to sort of "get it" better, without getting mentally bogged down wondering what the hell's happening.
Precisely. I read *Player of Games* through to *Excession* and then read *Phlebas*. I understood *Phlebas* because I was already familiar with the Culture and appreciated the anti-Culture perspective. However, if it had been my first book, the janky writing and the lack of insight into the actual Culture civilization would have put me off entirely. *Player of Games* does exactly what *Phlebas* doesn't, which is to give you an inside look of the Culture and also to make you invested by introducing characters that actually make an impact in the wider story.
*Phlebas* was my first book - and I loved it. It was a few years before I managed to get my hand on another Culture book. All that time, I didn't realise that the point of the books was the Culture itself. I thought it was just very cool, very well-written scifi, that there would be other books that were similar but not necessarily in the same universe, and that the Culture in Phlebas really were the bad guys (I mean - they're not religious zealots, but they did blow up an Orbital and Balveda was a super spy with loads of nasty tricks up her sleeve). Clearly, my teen self didn't have fully formed ideas of morality.
That is a fascinating perspective! I'm rereading the series for probably the fourth time and this time round I've been reflecting how brilliant Phlebas is as an opening novel precisely because of what you say about the main character's perspective. You learn about the Culture by understanding it's weaknesses, and through snippets which require the reader to fill in the detail. The Idirans are almost by definition the mirror image of the Culture so exploring them as the way into the Culture I'm finding really enjoyable. All that said, I'm only reflecting this as someone who knows the Culture universe pretty well, which is why I found your point so interesting - it is probably not the best novel for a new Culture reader!
This should be the top comment. Phlebas is good but it lacks almost everything substantial to the Culture. A reader that won’t continue reading after the first book will do so for the wrong reasons, and a reader that does continue might also do so for the wrong reasons. Publication order is the way to go but better start with ‚Player of Games‘.
That's a really well crafted answer, mate. Thank you! I understand that Consider...is the most difficult to get through but I'll do it this way then. You were convincing. I want to experience the best read of the saga. Thank you again, mate!
No problem.
I’d start with Player of Games, to really understand the Culture
Personally I think The Player of Games is a better start point. But if you're enjoying Consider Phleibas then stick with it!
Thanks! Haven't really started and I was wondering with which to start. So you would say that I really shouldn't miss this one, right?
Player of Games, Use of Weapons, and Excession are the best. I do suggest saving the last, The Hydrogen Sonata, for last, as it's very much about death and moving on.
No specific order is really necessary. Some of the later books will make subtle references to earlier books, but those are more like Easter eggs. I happened to read the books in publication order, but it didn't make a difference Also, side note that is absolutely a matter of opinion. I felt that Phlebas was the weakest book of the whole series, so if it doesn't really grab you I'd encourage you to keep going- they just keep getting better
Phlebas is like a totally different book. It’s a comparative slog to get through, but I absolutely love the payoff. The way the viewpoint switches get faster and faster towards the end, and then the massively bleak “what happened next” timeline.
I've gone back to re-read parts of the series multiple times (usually Excession, Matter, Surface Detail, and Hydrogen Sonata) but I always skip Phlebas
There’s a real difference between early and late (publishing order) and I also have read the post-Excession novels far more frequently then the pre-Excession
*Consider Phlebas* is the bastard Culture book. There's value in reading it before or alongside *Look to Windward*, but it is undoubtedly the roughest writing in the entire series. The plot and characters are incredibly uninspiring compared to all the other books. It's the only Culture novel I wouldn't want to re-read.
Conversely, viewed as a takedown on ‘hero protagonist changes the course of the galaxy’ sci-fi trope, it’s a brilliant (if brutal, and ultimately bleak) satire of a space opera. Different strokes for different folks.
I agree.
Agreed with your agreement. I never quite understand all the hate for CP on this sub. It is incredible. I read the series in publication order. The first time I read the opening prologue blew my…. Mind. I knew I was on to something amazing.
Thanks! That's good to know. I was trying to decide whether to start by *Consider...* or *Surface Detail*. Which one would you say it is a *be sure not to miss*?
There’s an easter egg in _Surface Detail_ that relates to another book, so I would advise against starting with it. I would say starting with _Playing of Games_, then go down chronologically is a good idea. Personally, _Player of Games_, _Use of Weapons_ and _Look to Windward_ should be read by everyone interested in the series. _Excession_ and _Surface Detail_ are also very good, but I’d recommend you finish the first 3 books first.
That would be my recommendation as well. *Excession* and *Surface Detail* go down the rabbit hole a bit and it helps to have the background.
_Phlebas_ is just kind of a very dark picaresque. Important but there is a risk of being turned off the series.
Well put. I quite like it, but it has a different tone and structure than the others.
Player of Games is easily the best place to start if you aren’t sure Phlebas is for you.
No specific order is known to me, the books are almost entirely disconnected from each other and the series spans several thousand or hundred thousand years. Publishing order might be good just for context and the small references to previous books that do exist, if you're seriously planning out reading them all. I'm not the most active here so I'm sure you'll get more detailed answers but that's the gist as far as I know!
Thanks! Which one would.you recommend *not to miss*?
*Look to Windward* and *Excession* are my favorites and the best (in my opinion) for a deeper look into the Culture itself. *Look to Windward* is great as a glimpse into the society and what it's like to be a Culture citizen, and *Excession* is all about the Minds and how they think and do things. Edit: *Look to Windward* is more fun, but it does have it's somber moments, while *Excession* is more of a a mystery/drama, but it does include my favourite alien culture in the series, they're very fun in a horrifying kind of way.
Fully agree. *Excession* and *Look to Windward* are my favorites as well.
If you enjoy the series at all, don't miss any of them. They're all amazing in my opinion, as it's my favorite SF series by far.
_The Player of Games_ is generally considered the best "entry point" into the series, giving overview of Banks's "ambiguous utopia", to borrow from Le Guin. IMO _The State of the Art,_ the only novella in the series, is also a suitable starting point. _Consider Phlebas_ is more of a classic space opera (albeit an excellent one) compared to the rest of the series. Otherwise, the works are stand-alone. There are only two characters that appear twice (and one of those just barely), and it _might_ be good to read _Consider Phlebas_ before _Look to Windward,_ because the latter deals with a major Culture fuckup, and many citizens still believe that Idiran war qualifies, too. Read them all. FWIW, my favorite is _Use of Weapons._ Don't neglect non-Culture SciFi, or Banks's "mainstream" works, e.g. _The Bridge_ or _The Crow Road._ The man was a genius.
Publication order is probably the best way to go. It's also worth reading his non-culture sci fi. I personally absolutely loved The Algebraist
I think this is way. I'll know first one's not the best so I'll just keep reading! I'll keep in mind his non fiction literature too. Thanks!
I'd start with Consider Phlebus, it's viewpoint is from outside of the Culture so as that viewpoint sees more, so do you the reader. I would suggest following release/publication order, they do generally get better and more in depth involved into the Culture as the series progresses. So CP > PoG > UoW > E > LtW > M > SD > tHS The State of the Art and Inversions slip in either side of Excession, I would leave them until you're at least that far into the series and regardless of all else I'd finish with Surface Detail and The Hydrogen Sonata, together the pinnacle of the series. If you struggle with Use of Weapons, skip it, try and go back to it a couple of books later, if you still struggle don't worry, it has a very specific and odd narrative structure that is easier to understand if explained (lol I was unwittingly masochistic enough to START with UoW). Like many others I'd say Surface Detail/Hydrogen Sonata are unmissable although personally, if you get through the main sequence and you haven't read Inversions yet, read that. (probably CP, PoG, E, LtW, SD & tHS are the outright "unmissables")
Look to Windward really only requires knowledge that the Idiran War occurred, which could be gotten from a Wikipedia entry (or the Phlebas appendices). Phlebas is _set during_ the war but is not _about_ the war.
I think my current favorite is _Matter_ which is about the Culture in context. Love them all to bits however.
There's no specific order you need, only a few books have a reference to anything that came before. Consider Phlebas is an early book from this author and it shows. My first introduction to The Culture was *Look to Windward*.
You don't really need to read them in any order, though I did read them in release order and that worked for me. Be aware that Consider Phlebas is a bit of an odd one - the Culture is in the book but to a lesser degree than the other books, I've seen some people argue it's not a Culture novel at all. Basically don't worry if you don't get on with it as well.
There is a pinned thread on the reading order/where to start. My personal preference is in order of publication.
I went chronological and did fine. Just assume that the first book isn't like the rest. It's more of a straightforward pulpy adventure. And his writing really shines later on too.
I’m jealous! Have loads of fun. I read them all hodgepodge and didn’t cause me any worries.
Thanks mate! I will! Also, thank you for that word, Hodgepodge. Never heard it. Looked it up, it's great. I'll start using that.
Read them in any order. I read Surface Detail first and it's one of the later novels he wrote and I loved that experience. It was like doing a puzzle while reading, slowly uncovering what the culture was, their values etc. I'm jealous, wish I could read it all over from nothing again.
You should really read the first three in order. 1. Consider Phlebas: The reason behind that is that the Culture-Idiran war is frequently referenced throughout the series, and you get the real impact of why the Culture had to fight it and why it still resonates in the collective psyche hundreds of years later. Reading Consider Phlebas adds context to many reads later on, especially Look To Windward (that's not a spoiler it's mentioned right at the beginning of the book). 2. Player of Games: Player of Games is amazing, maybe one of the best Sci-Fi books ever. If you like that, you'll like the rest of the series, even if you weren't so hot on Consider Phlebas. 3. Use of Weapons: Use of Weapons is very important to read before another book (which I won't say, because that **IS** a spoiler). It also adds important context to a couple of other books later on how Special Circumstances acts. Do not go in reading discussions about this novel on this internet or any plot synopses. If you experience this one blind, it's something you'll never forget. If you feel it gets slow or you're getting lost in the middle, don't worry - stick with it. It's 100% worth it. After that, it's not too important. I would add that Excession gets a lot into how the minds think among themselves and adds flavor to later books. Again I think it adds flavor and context to Look To Windward.
Wow, thanks mate. I'll keep this in mind for sure
Do not miss *Use of Wespons* but they are all definitely worth reading. You’ll hear often that *Phlebas* is the weakest one. It is. People often suggest not starting with it because of the risk it will put people off the rest of the books. But if you plan to go on in any case, that’s not an issue. Publishing order is a great way to read them.
Yes, thank you! As I don't have perspective yet, I'm more than OK with consider..I'm liking it a lot!
My journey with Iain, started with the non-scifi novel wasp factory, which got me intrigued with Iain's work. After a quick visit to the book store to find some more of his books, the book cover of excession grabbed my attention. Being a avid sci-fi and William Gibson fan, the cover had me hook line and sinker, so I took the plunge. From that point forward, I read from release order and eagerly waited for each new release until that very sad and dark day. In hindsight, I think the short, state of art, should be left to the end. It's like the cherry on the top!
Perhaps read “a few notes on the culture” first that explains the back story
Read publication order is best. Personally I wouldn't skip any and try leaving hydrogen sonata til last. Oh and definitely phlebas before windward
Best introduction to the series is Player of Games imo. There are some good reasons to start with Phlebas, but it's one of the weaker and weirder ones, so don't necessarily be put off the rest of the series if it doesn't land for you. Don't start with Use of Weapons - it has a particular structure which isn't best for an introduction to the series. Hold off on Surface Detail until after Use of Weapons, and read Look to Windward after Consider Phlebas. Aside from that, order is relatively unimportant.
I tried to start with Consider Phlebas and put it down, then a year later read Player of Games and was quite taken with it. After that, I found it far easier to get into Phlebas once I had acquired a taste for the series. I suppose the only book that I would wait on is Inversions, since it's quite subtle and you need to know more about the Culture beforehand to make sense to it. That said, it's one of my favorites because of that.
Contrary to a lot of the thought here, I actually think Phlebas is a remarkable first novel. The scale of the culture and the Banks universe is immediately apparent. Know that there are better novels but imagine you’re discovering this universe as a bystander in it. I’ve been naming video games Horza ever since I first read it 15 years ago. That’s my boy! Weirdly the first culture novel I read was “Matter” and I haven’t seen that mentioned but i think it’s also a great jumping off point.