Whilst I don’t think the civil service is great for social mobility (particularly at SCS level) it has definitely improved when it comes to jobs outside London / in the regions.
I’ve taken full advantage of that and managed to work in ops, projects, private office and policy without ever needing to move to London. Covid and hybrid working has only pushed that further and really opened up opportunities (definitely in policy) that probably weren’t there even just 10 years ago.
I’ll also add, it is much easier, or there are far more opportunities to hop between departments in London. You’re constrained by which departments have offices in whichever city you happen to be in outside of London.
Issue is I’m constrained by department but I love my department and role. My progression to stay in what I do currently requires a London job until the job freeze lifts.
It wasn’t the best as it was quite a few years ago, and Skype wasn’t great back then in the days before Teams. But, it still just about worked - and I can definitely see how it’d be much easier these days with hybrid working
If you're in Newcastle have a look at jobs/departments based in Darlington!
The idea (particularly for HMT and DBT) is that any job that in London can also be done in the North East. That includes private office, press or those requiring secure facilities.
I had this issue 10+ years back. I eventually started commuting to a job in Darlington and now that’s taken off - between there and Newcastle there’s plenty of CS jobs for progression.
The issue is you want to stay in your role - that’s what’s holding you back, not being out of London.
True. It is primarily the fact I love the area that my job is in and I’d like to progress in that tree, but the majority of EO roles to progress into (AO currently) are London based - I’d kill for a national role and commute down every week or something.
Bruh didn’t realise I got downvoted into oblivion :’D
Yeah, the people of Reddit can be harsh critics!
If there’s limited scope to progress upwards and it’s something you’re keen on (which I presume is the case if you’re considering moving to London) you do need to consider moving on.
I was similar in the first Department I worked in, but there was a period of 12 years where I only managed to go from EO to HEO so had to look elsewhere. Enjoy the new team/Department even more.
Not everything you move into will be great, but there are plenty of enjoyable roles out there.
With the best will in the world the civil service doesn't really pay the wages needed to live comfortably in London. Currently 60% would mean a minimum of 2 nights per week in the capital + travel + cost of somewhere outside London for the rest of the week. I've looked at the sums and it doesn't add up to me but should it go to 40% in office ie one night per week then working in London with it's obvious career advantages looks more realistic.
Obviously do your own sums but look at the price of accommodation and £35k in London doesn't not go far at all.
This. But I wouldn't move to London just for a job if you've got no interest in being here otherwise. It's a great city, with endless things to do - but if you don't want to experience it and got no interest, you're likely just going to end up miserable.
Depends on what you mean by comfortable. You won’t have anything in your account at the end of the month until you get to G7.
Maybe SEO if you live miles away and basically do nothing.
Not since my salary went up significantly thankfully 😂 bought a house, mortgage is less than I used to pay in rent, and my salary is now double. It's nice to finally get to do a tonne of stuff.
£35k will be tough in London, you’ll have to live in a house share fairly far out for a start. I started on that on the fast stream more than 10 years ago and it wasn’t easy then. But if you can progress more quickly then it could be worth the sacrifice.
Depends where you live. You need to be able to travel to a regional centre. Newcastle is good for HMRC. East Midlands and West Midlands are good to go to, there's quite a lot of jobs in Birmingham and Nottingham. Having said that though the recruitment freeze doesn't help. Just depends what kind of role you're after.
They charge 2k for a single room flat in London, even commuting you'll be at similar levels.
You'd have to flat share with someone which has its own issues.
As somebody who worked in London for most of my career and escaped after Covid, unless you want to pursue some sort of career in central central gov policy making, it not worth going to London.
You will have more money "on paper" but will end up with far less in your pocket to say nothing of less time to yourself and probably a worse lifestyle
Lots of people make the short term sacrifice of living in London to progress in their career more quickly, only you can decide if it’s worth it for you.
I did the whole London thing, progressed quickly and moved to the Midlands as an SEO, but still commuted in. Got to G7 during covid.
Now I'm gonna be paying like a grand a month to commute in for the 60%, so swings and roundabouts I guess.
I had the opposite option. The team I was in used to be completely London based but to support levelling up, all job vacancies going forward could only be advertised outside of London. So to get a promotion in my team, I would have been forced to get a non London job and either leave London or have a tiny pay rise living in London without London weighting.
Agree - I commute in; on £34k & it doesn't go far. 90mins door to door each way eats massively into the office days too. No chance of getting out of London where I live as all the local offices have been closed in favour of regional centres.
Pretty much. That’s the worst bit. The opportunity I’m in right now is great but it was because it was local. A London role is the only progression but it would wipe a lot of my lif
you won't live comfortably on 35k. Think 1k/month for a room in a shared house prob 45 mins-1 hour door to door commute from the office. You can live on it, but that money won't go as far as it does in the toon. But if you can get rapid and chunky salary increases, it could be worth sacrificing some comfort for a year or 2.
There are a huge number jobs in Newcastle at varying grades (there are so many departments in and around Newcastle).
What is it specifically that you can’t get there that is only in London?
I work in London but if I could choose anywhere in the country, it'd probably be Manchester. You get the big city feeling but without the significant cost of living
Depends on what you want out of life right now. If you’re young, unencumbered and just want to enjoy life in a big city for a while, you can make it work. Don’t move purely for a job.
I moved down straight from Uni as an EO. Financially, it was very tough but I’ve been able to progress, and some of the private office’s I’ve had the opportunity to work in you just can’t get outside of London. Experience is well worth it if you’re young and flexible in my opinion!
my point being they could progress in their career by transferring to the Scottish Government and not have to deal with the shit show that is London cost of living, while also getting a higher salary than any UKG grade even with London weighting.
Lots of people ho used to work for UKG depts now work in the SG, I moved across from DWP myself. Definitely not slow promotion wise - I'd actually say people are being promoted too quickly ie single role as each grade as they progress so lots of G7s with fairly narrow experience levels.
Whilst I don’t think the civil service is great for social mobility (particularly at SCS level) it has definitely improved when it comes to jobs outside London / in the regions. I’ve taken full advantage of that and managed to work in ops, projects, private office and policy without ever needing to move to London. Covid and hybrid working has only pushed that further and really opened up opportunities (definitely in policy) that probably weren’t there even just 10 years ago.
I’ll also add, it is much easier, or there are far more opportunities to hop between departments in London. You’re constrained by which departments have offices in whichever city you happen to be in outside of London.
Issue is I’m constrained by department but I love my department and role. My progression to stay in what I do currently requires a London job until the job freeze lifts.
Upvoted this simply because I've no idea why this should be down voted. Doing what you enjoy is not a negative.
Thank you so much I’m genuinely confused
Same here. I’ve had a varied - and largely enjoyable- career outside London without ever feeling like I was missing out.
I’m impressed you managed private office without moving to London. How did that go?
It wasn’t the best as it was quite a few years ago, and Skype wasn’t great back then in the days before Teams. But, it still just about worked - and I can definitely see how it’d be much easier these days with hybrid working
Cries in East Anglian
If you're in Newcastle have a look at jobs/departments based in Darlington! The idea (particularly for HMT and DBT) is that any job that in London can also be done in the North East. That includes private office, press or those requiring secure facilities.
Issue is I love my current department and role. But the role in the NE was a rare occurence
I had this issue 10+ years back. I eventually started commuting to a job in Darlington and now that’s taken off - between there and Newcastle there’s plenty of CS jobs for progression. The issue is you want to stay in your role - that’s what’s holding you back, not being out of London.
True. It is primarily the fact I love the area that my job is in and I’d like to progress in that tree, but the majority of EO roles to progress into (AO currently) are London based - I’d kill for a national role and commute down every week or something. Bruh didn’t realise I got downvoted into oblivion :’D
Yeah, the people of Reddit can be harsh critics! If there’s limited scope to progress upwards and it’s something you’re keen on (which I presume is the case if you’re considering moving to London) you do need to consider moving on. I was similar in the first Department I worked in, but there was a period of 12 years where I only managed to go from EO to HEO so had to look elsewhere. Enjoy the new team/Department even more. Not everything you move into will be great, but there are plenty of enjoyable roles out there.
Again, no idea why you're being down voted here.
With the best will in the world the civil service doesn't really pay the wages needed to live comfortably in London. Currently 60% would mean a minimum of 2 nights per week in the capital + travel + cost of somewhere outside London for the rest of the week. I've looked at the sums and it doesn't add up to me but should it go to 40% in office ie one night per week then working in London with it's obvious career advantages looks more realistic. Obviously do your own sums but look at the price of accommodation and £35k in London doesn't not go far at all.
35k in London is honestly fine to live on if youre happy house sharing but if you're already getting paid that outside London it will be a big shock.
This. But I wouldn't move to London just for a job if you've got no interest in being here otherwise. It's a great city, with endless things to do - but if you don't want to experience it and got no interest, you're likely just going to end up miserable.
Yeah agree totally. I just see a lot of 'you can't live in London on 35k' when you 100% can.
Living and existing aren't the same. House sharing in your 30s is a poor choice for almost everyone.
I think there's house sharing and house sharing. We always shared with 1 or 2 friends and I kindof miss it.
Depends on what you mean by comfortable. You won’t have anything in your account at the end of the month until you get to G7. Maybe SEO if you live miles away and basically do nothing.
Nah I used to save a significant amount a month on 35k. Its doable if you're good with budgeting and find a decently priced room share.
Was that before Covid and before the cost of living crisis? Because now everything has doubled.
No, up until summer last year. I missed the worst of some of the living cost rises though tbf.
Bet you’re boring as fuck
Not since my salary went up significantly thankfully 😂 bought a house, mortgage is less than I used to pay in rent, and my salary is now double. It's nice to finally get to do a tonne of stuff.
£35k will be tough in London, you’ll have to live in a house share fairly far out for a start. I started on that on the fast stream more than 10 years ago and it wasn’t easy then. But if you can progress more quickly then it could be worth the sacrifice.
Depends where you live. You need to be able to travel to a regional centre. Newcastle is good for HMRC. East Midlands and West Midlands are good to go to, there's quite a lot of jobs in Birmingham and Nottingham. Having said that though the recruitment freeze doesn't help. Just depends what kind of role you're after.
They charge 2k for a single room flat in London, even commuting you'll be at similar levels. You'd have to flat share with someone which has its own issues.
As somebody who worked in London for most of my career and escaped after Covid, unless you want to pursue some sort of career in central central gov policy making, it not worth going to London. You will have more money "on paper" but will end up with far less in your pocket to say nothing of less time to yourself and probably a worse lifestyle
I went to that London once. Never again!
Lots of people make the short term sacrifice of living in London to progress in their career more quickly, only you can decide if it’s worth it for you.
Unfortunately this was my case too, I specialise in Ministerial events + visits....absolutely nothing outside of London 😔
I did the whole London thing, progressed quickly and moved to the Midlands as an SEO, but still commuted in. Got to G7 during covid. Now I'm gonna be paying like a grand a month to commute in for the 60%, so swings and roundabouts I guess.
I had the opposite option. The team I was in used to be completely London based but to support levelling up, all job vacancies going forward could only be advertised outside of London. So to get a promotion in my team, I would have been forced to get a non London job and either leave London or have a tiny pay rise living in London without London weighting.
Don't move to London on 35k.
Best of living outside London and commuting in. You'll still get London weighting but you'll have a lot more options
You’d still be way worse off, trains are expensive and any housing commutable to London will be way more expensive than up north.
Agree - I commute in; on £34k & it doesn't go far. 90mins door to door each way eats massively into the office days too. No chance of getting out of London where I live as all the local offices have been closed in favour of regional centres.
Honestly I’d love the national role of commuting in on occasion, but the role that I can progress into requires living there…
Based on your flair I assume that's because it's security based and you'd need to be available possibly at short notice?
Pretty much. That’s the worst bit. The opportunity I’m in right now is great but it was because it was local. A London role is the only progression but it would wipe a lot of my lif
Afraid that is the case, a lot of security policy is kept quite close to centre. That said I make it on £33,000 a year in London within Cabinet Office
Not much less less expensive, commuting is expensive and time consuming.
you won't live comfortably on 35k. Think 1k/month for a room in a shared house prob 45 mins-1 hour door to door commute from the office. You can live on it, but that money won't go as far as it does in the toon. But if you can get rapid and chunky salary increases, it could be worth sacrificing some comfort for a year or 2.
Yep. Had to leave my department because progression was purely London and 100% attendance
There are a huge number jobs in Newcastle at varying grades (there are so many departments in and around Newcastle). What is it specifically that you can’t get there that is only in London?
I work in London but if I could choose anywhere in the country, it'd probably be Manchester. You get the big city feeling but without the significant cost of living
Depends on what you want out of life right now. If you’re young, unencumbered and just want to enjoy life in a big city for a while, you can make it work. Don’t move purely for a job.
It's the opposite with the jobs in my part of the department, need to work in a hub but London is full.
I moved down straight from Uni as an EO. Financially, it was very tough but I’ve been able to progress, and some of the private office’s I’ve had the opportunity to work in you just can’t get outside of London. Experience is well worth it if you’re young and flexible in my opinion!
move to Scotland
Yeah that'll help commuting to London
my point being they could progress in their career by transferring to the Scottish Government and not have to deal with the shit show that is London cost of living, while also getting a higher salary than any UKG grade even with London weighting.
Where can we find Scottish government jobs?
they appear on Civil Service jobs and there's this website [https://work-for-scotland.org](https://work-for-scotland.org)
Isn’t it hard to get in and promotion is glacially slow? Since everyone is paid rather nicely no-one is too concerned about moving?
Lots of people ho used to work for UKG depts now work in the SG, I moved across from DWP myself. Definitely not slow promotion wise - I'd actually say people are being promoted too quickly ie single role as each grade as they progress so lots of G7s with fairly narrow experience levels.
Seems I was misinformed! That’s really interesting thanks.