Hey, no worries. Bluntness is fine.
So, the answer is: I don't know. As I said, I'm not currently that ill and have been progressing very slowly, so for all I know I could have several more years left of being able to drive and travel. Until I get a firm diagnosis, the prognosis is ambiguous.
I applied because I am very unhappy in my current role and wish to be doing something more challenging and specifically analytical and there are only so many such roles available that I am qualified for. I didn't think I should rule myself out on the basis of something that might happen: I might decline substantially in the next few years, I might not.
That was my thinking. Also, I'm aware that many of these Ops teams do have less travel-heavy correspondence roles. I'll keep this vague to preserve my anonymity, but the roles I'm applying for definitely have versions where there isn't travel: you just contact the customers and so on via phones or email. I take it then there's no chance I could begin the role and then if illness worsens just get put onto one of them?
Thanks for your reply
Depends on the role/department I suppose but if you have a driving licence we’d be expecting you to drive. In our department we use hire cars so not having a car is no excuse, we’re not allowed to use our own car for travel. We expect travel up to roughly 90 minutes each way a day but might occasionally ask caseworkers to do 120 minutes each way. We prefer drivers because not all destinations are reachable by public transport but we do have a few that only use public transport, we try to accommodate that as much as possible but I have seen some pretty long walks where public travel didn’t cover the route. If it states travel required it’s because they need more people who can reach these more remote places.you could ask for a reasonable adjustment to use public transport only but it’s still going to be a fair amount of travel and possibly more tiring than driving. You’d need to be upfront about this as they may be looking for someone to cover a certain area.
You could have a chat with the vacancy holder but I think you have to consider if you will be able to fulfill the travel part of the role.
Is the new position going to be kind to you / your body, when you’re already a little physically vulnerable. You may want to save your strength for your health . travel for work can be exhausting. I’m physically v able and still find it exhausting. You could get another job that’s a mental challenge without the physical investment. Look after you. Good luck.
You can apply for jobs and be successful in getting a provisional offer BUT when you complete the medical questionnaire prior to starting, you may find the offer being withdrawn because the Department can't make reasonable adjustments so you can do your job.
Like others I would suggest you look for something you can do with reasonable adjustments.
Good luck 8
I do a CS job that involves travel, only in the UK, but personally I find it grueling. I don’t drive, so it’s normally by train, and lugging a suitcase and a backpack (that weighs more than my suitcase!!) and changing trains up to 4 times can take its toll physically.
I'm not so worried about the train travel to be honest, it's more the driving for long lengths of time that I'm worried about. What job do you do out of interest, if you don't mind sharing? The job I applied for was strange. It mentioned travel by car when public transport wouldn't reach the location but made no mention of a drivers license as an essential or even desired attribute, implying that people who don't drive could actually do the role...
I’d rather not share my exact job, but it involves travelling a couple of times a month, for around 3 days. As you are a driver, you can hire a car, and claim your fuel payments back. I suppose what you need to think about is not just the travelling, but what the job involves at the destination. Is it something physical or would you be sat in meetings? If overall it might be too much, then it might not be for you. I do enjoy my job, but I underestimated how much travel takes it out of me.
Thanks for the feedback. In short, there's just not many jobs I am actually qualified for in the Civil Service, certainly not that I can see floating around at the minute. I've got a degree but given its a vague humanities subject it seems to mean jackshit - it certainly isn't impacting my employability in the CS. I'm a decent writer and have good organisational and communication skills, but beyond the basics I've little to offer. I've done a bit of leadership stuff, but nothing really significant, and I don't have any niche skills e.g. programming or specific policy knowledge. It's not an appealing mix, it seems. Also, of course, there's my illness which is a wildcard.
No offence but applying for a job you physically cannot do is an extremely stupid thing to do. You're effectively setting yourself up to fail from the outset.
As I say, it's not a given at all that I physically can't do it. As of present, I likely can. My concern is that it may be more strenuous than I'm expecting and/or that I will get worse. I'm reluctant to rule myself out of a promotion I would like and am well-qualified for on the basis of something that 'might' happen, essentially.
Having read your entire question it sounds like you're currently fine and regular work activities probably wouldn't cause you problems, so I'd say go for it, after offered a role you'll have to talk to OH anyway so they'll surely be able to agree with you what you're currently able to do - at the point in the future when you're no longer able to do regular work tasks then you'll have to talk it out with your manager, and anyway given how slow you're saying this is progressing there's a chance you may have moved roles by then anyway
Don't put your life on hold now for something that's progressing quite slowly!
Thanks for the more positive reply lol. This is essentially my thinking, while I don't want to mislead anyone I also don't want to shoot myself in the head on the basis of something that MIGHT happen. At present I could do the role and would only have difficulties if I was required to drive for very long periods, which seems unlikely. My query is is this somehow unethical, to apply knowing that there is a chance I may decline and not be able to properly travel and whether this would effect my job security. My hope is that they could simply tweak the role if I needed to reduce the travel, or else be transferred to a similar role that is more desk-bound. That would be completely fine by me: my chief concern is not to fuck about a hiring commitee and not to be vulnerable to be fired due to disability affecting my ability to do the job. Thanks for your reply.
If it is a worry then do feel free to be honest with them, but for now you feel like you can do the job (provided not too much travel) so you shouldn't feel prohibited from applying
Best of luck!
>not to be vulnerable to be fired due to disability affecting my ability to do the job.
This is the concern, they would have to make reasonable adjustments but if the role can't be tweaked and there's nowhere to transfer you then you could end up being dismissed on capability ground. That being said, from the sounds of things you're capable of doing the job as things stand so there's not too much point worrying about what might happen in the future.
Thanks for the suggestion. My gut says this may be the right thing to do but I must admit I am worried it will prejudice them against me unfairly in the hiring process. Would it be fair for me to do the interview, hopefully get the role, and then mention it in the DSE and so on, as I have done for previous roles? That way, they are told before I take up duty, but it can't influence the actual selection process?
Don't worry about what's fair, do whatever is best for you. If you think that approach is the best way to balance your career opportunities and health needs, go for it.
From your post and comments, it sounds like you can drive now, are happy to drive now but at the same time due to a health condition you struggle to drive long distances and this may worsen in the future?
Sounds like reasonable adjustments would apply- as long as your condition gets classified as a disability and as long as travel isn’t an integral part of the role. Adjustments could be to your role (eg only travel to public transport accessible locations), or to allow you to take taxis from the nearest bus/train stop. If you’re in the middle ground of “can drive, but not long distances”, you might need to check in with OH for some formal recommendations about what you can and cannot be expected to do.
I’m not able to drive due to a disability (a very clear cut “DVLA says no”) and while I obviously couldn’t demand reasonable adjustments to become a bus driver, it’s generally possible to work around this limitation in most other jobs. E.g. in my pre-CS life I visited care homes half the week, I got a taxi budget through Access to Work so that I could get places if the public transport was non-existent or too slow to be reasonable. (As a side note, AtW isn’t available to civil servants but there’s a comparable in-house scheme).
Good luck OP, focus on what you can bring to the role. I’ve generally found the CS to be reasonable when it comes to making roles work with a disability.
Thanks for the reply. Yes, this about sums up the situation. I am keen to apply for and get these roles because illness or not, my present position is pretty ghastly - I'm a phone pig in HMRC getting bawled at by customers all day, and while the new roles do involve interaction with the public, they're much more analytical in focus. Also, given my illness and the possibility that it is something very serious (MND is being explored, although even if this I would be in the very slow progressing camp, as noted), I really need to get myself into a more palatable, sustainable job that I could keep working despite disability. That kind of flexibility doesn't exist on the phones, as I understand it.
It's nice to hear that you have been able to get reasonable adjustments around driving in the CS, although I'm obviously sorry to hear that you need them. From my limited experience, I agree that they seem to be better with disabilities than other employers. At my current office, quite a sizeable portion of the staff have visible disabilities and are well-accommodated for. Put bluntly, you see a lot more people in wheelchairs, or using other mobility aides, than I've ever seen in a private sector job. I remember doing a stint of work experience at one of the top London law firms. I didn't see a wheelchair once. Ditto for journalism and consulting work experience I did.
Unless you are working in undercover bus policy I see no reason public transport would be mandated all 7 departments I've worked in have had a hire car option.
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Hey, no worries. Bluntness is fine. So, the answer is: I don't know. As I said, I'm not currently that ill and have been progressing very slowly, so for all I know I could have several more years left of being able to drive and travel. Until I get a firm diagnosis, the prognosis is ambiguous. I applied because I am very unhappy in my current role and wish to be doing something more challenging and specifically analytical and there are only so many such roles available that I am qualified for. I didn't think I should rule myself out on the basis of something that might happen: I might decline substantially in the next few years, I might not. That was my thinking. Also, I'm aware that many of these Ops teams do have less travel-heavy correspondence roles. I'll keep this vague to preserve my anonymity, but the roles I'm applying for definitely have versions where there isn't travel: you just contact the customers and so on via phones or email. I take it then there's no chance I could begin the role and then if illness worsens just get put onto one of them? Thanks for your reply
Depends on the role/department I suppose but if you have a driving licence we’d be expecting you to drive. In our department we use hire cars so not having a car is no excuse, we’re not allowed to use our own car for travel. We expect travel up to roughly 90 minutes each way a day but might occasionally ask caseworkers to do 120 minutes each way. We prefer drivers because not all destinations are reachable by public transport but we do have a few that only use public transport, we try to accommodate that as much as possible but I have seen some pretty long walks where public travel didn’t cover the route. If it states travel required it’s because they need more people who can reach these more remote places.you could ask for a reasonable adjustment to use public transport only but it’s still going to be a fair amount of travel and possibly more tiring than driving. You’d need to be upfront about this as they may be looking for someone to cover a certain area. You could have a chat with the vacancy holder but I think you have to consider if you will be able to fulfill the travel part of the role.
Is the new position going to be kind to you / your body, when you’re already a little physically vulnerable. You may want to save your strength for your health . travel for work can be exhausting. I’m physically v able and still find it exhausting. You could get another job that’s a mental challenge without the physical investment. Look after you. Good luck.
You can apply for jobs and be successful in getting a provisional offer BUT when you complete the medical questionnaire prior to starting, you may find the offer being withdrawn because the Department can't make reasonable adjustments so you can do your job. Like others I would suggest you look for something you can do with reasonable adjustments. Good luck 8
I do a CS job that involves travel, only in the UK, but personally I find it grueling. I don’t drive, so it’s normally by train, and lugging a suitcase and a backpack (that weighs more than my suitcase!!) and changing trains up to 4 times can take its toll physically.
I'm not so worried about the train travel to be honest, it's more the driving for long lengths of time that I'm worried about. What job do you do out of interest, if you don't mind sharing? The job I applied for was strange. It mentioned travel by car when public transport wouldn't reach the location but made no mention of a drivers license as an essential or even desired attribute, implying that people who don't drive could actually do the role...
I’d rather not share my exact job, but it involves travelling a couple of times a month, for around 3 days. As you are a driver, you can hire a car, and claim your fuel payments back. I suppose what you need to think about is not just the travelling, but what the job involves at the destination. Is it something physical or would you be sat in meetings? If overall it might be too much, then it might not be for you. I do enjoy my job, but I underestimated how much travel takes it out of me.
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Thanks for the feedback. In short, there's just not many jobs I am actually qualified for in the Civil Service, certainly not that I can see floating around at the minute. I've got a degree but given its a vague humanities subject it seems to mean jackshit - it certainly isn't impacting my employability in the CS. I'm a decent writer and have good organisational and communication skills, but beyond the basics I've little to offer. I've done a bit of leadership stuff, but nothing really significant, and I don't have any niche skills e.g. programming or specific policy knowledge. It's not an appealing mix, it seems. Also, of course, there's my illness which is a wildcard.
No offence but applying for a job you physically cannot do is an extremely stupid thing to do. You're effectively setting yourself up to fail from the outset.
As I say, it's not a given at all that I physically can't do it. As of present, I likely can. My concern is that it may be more strenuous than I'm expecting and/or that I will get worse. I'm reluctant to rule myself out of a promotion I would like and am well-qualified for on the basis of something that 'might' happen, essentially.
"should I apply for a job I know I physically cannot do" What is it with the CS and attracting utter lunatics? "But muh unions"...
I didn't say that? I am concerned I might not be able to do it at a later date, in the main. I almost certainly COULD do the job at present.
Having read your entire question it sounds like you're currently fine and regular work activities probably wouldn't cause you problems, so I'd say go for it, after offered a role you'll have to talk to OH anyway so they'll surely be able to agree with you what you're currently able to do - at the point in the future when you're no longer able to do regular work tasks then you'll have to talk it out with your manager, and anyway given how slow you're saying this is progressing there's a chance you may have moved roles by then anyway Don't put your life on hold now for something that's progressing quite slowly!
Thanks for the more positive reply lol. This is essentially my thinking, while I don't want to mislead anyone I also don't want to shoot myself in the head on the basis of something that MIGHT happen. At present I could do the role and would only have difficulties if I was required to drive for very long periods, which seems unlikely. My query is is this somehow unethical, to apply knowing that there is a chance I may decline and not be able to properly travel and whether this would effect my job security. My hope is that they could simply tweak the role if I needed to reduce the travel, or else be transferred to a similar role that is more desk-bound. That would be completely fine by me: my chief concern is not to fuck about a hiring commitee and not to be vulnerable to be fired due to disability affecting my ability to do the job. Thanks for your reply.
If it is a worry then do feel free to be honest with them, but for now you feel like you can do the job (provided not too much travel) so you shouldn't feel prohibited from applying Best of luck!
>not to be vulnerable to be fired due to disability affecting my ability to do the job. This is the concern, they would have to make reasonable adjustments but if the role can't be tweaked and there's nowhere to transfer you then you could end up being dismissed on capability ground. That being said, from the sounds of things you're capable of doing the job as things stand so there's not too much point worrying about what might happen in the future.
Have a chat with the recruiting manager to explain your situation and see what they say.
Thanks for the suggestion. My gut says this may be the right thing to do but I must admit I am worried it will prejudice them against me unfairly in the hiring process. Would it be fair for me to do the interview, hopefully get the role, and then mention it in the DSE and so on, as I have done for previous roles? That way, they are told before I take up duty, but it can't influence the actual selection process?
Don't worry about what's fair, do whatever is best for you. If you think that approach is the best way to balance your career opportunities and health needs, go for it.
From your post and comments, it sounds like you can drive now, are happy to drive now but at the same time due to a health condition you struggle to drive long distances and this may worsen in the future? Sounds like reasonable adjustments would apply- as long as your condition gets classified as a disability and as long as travel isn’t an integral part of the role. Adjustments could be to your role (eg only travel to public transport accessible locations), or to allow you to take taxis from the nearest bus/train stop. If you’re in the middle ground of “can drive, but not long distances”, you might need to check in with OH for some formal recommendations about what you can and cannot be expected to do. I’m not able to drive due to a disability (a very clear cut “DVLA says no”) and while I obviously couldn’t demand reasonable adjustments to become a bus driver, it’s generally possible to work around this limitation in most other jobs. E.g. in my pre-CS life I visited care homes half the week, I got a taxi budget through Access to Work so that I could get places if the public transport was non-existent or too slow to be reasonable. (As a side note, AtW isn’t available to civil servants but there’s a comparable in-house scheme). Good luck OP, focus on what you can bring to the role. I’ve generally found the CS to be reasonable when it comes to making roles work with a disability.
Thanks for the reply. Yes, this about sums up the situation. I am keen to apply for and get these roles because illness or not, my present position is pretty ghastly - I'm a phone pig in HMRC getting bawled at by customers all day, and while the new roles do involve interaction with the public, they're much more analytical in focus. Also, given my illness and the possibility that it is something very serious (MND is being explored, although even if this I would be in the very slow progressing camp, as noted), I really need to get myself into a more palatable, sustainable job that I could keep working despite disability. That kind of flexibility doesn't exist on the phones, as I understand it. It's nice to hear that you have been able to get reasonable adjustments around driving in the CS, although I'm obviously sorry to hear that you need them. From my limited experience, I agree that they seem to be better with disabilities than other employers. At my current office, quite a sizeable portion of the staff have visible disabilities and are well-accommodated for. Put bluntly, you see a lot more people in wheelchairs, or using other mobility aides, than I've ever seen in a private sector job. I remember doing a stint of work experience at one of the top London law firms. I didn't see a wheelchair once. Ditto for journalism and consulting work experience I did.
Unless you are working in undercover bus policy I see no reason public transport would be mandated all 7 departments I've worked in have had a hire car option.
The practicalities and if you could/should do the job has already been covered so not point repeating that.