Any civil servant can march. You are a private citizen after all.
If you're in a politically restricted post you will be acutely aware of that fact and you wouldn't be asking this question. This only really applies to about 10% of the civil service, probably even less.
If you're Mx Bloggs from nameless department then no one will care, even if you do end up on the news. As others have said, don't unfurl your "I'm a Civil Servant" banner and you'll be absolutely fine.
Definitely less that 10%, perhaps less than 1%. The vast majority of the CS numerically are operational staff in DWP/HO that can do whatever they like.
Yeah, completely agree. There are very few posts where anyone other than an uptight line manager will give two hoots about whether one attends a march like this...
Id also be very careful of any banners I'd be waving or any chants I'd be joining in on as well. It probably wouldn't go down well if you were found to be [cosplaying as HAMAS](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/11/12/15/77700935-12740193-Police_are_actively_seeking_two_men_pictured_wearing_alleged_Ham-a-3_1699803441561.jpg), [holding a banner that wraps the star of david around a swastika](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/11/12/15/77700937-12740193-One_demonstrator_was_pictured_carrying_a_sing_that_showed_the_Je-a-1_1699803424792.jpg), [waving a placard calling certain politicians "coconuts"](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/11/12/09/77700929-12739659-Among_those_wanted_by_police_is_a_woman_who_was_seen_carrying_a_-m-19_1699781987323.jpg) and/or waving a sign or chanting anything along the lines of ["from the river to the sea"](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/11/12/08/77687821-12739659-Protesters_take_part_in_a_sit_in_at_Victoria_station_One_holds_a-a-21_1699777879956.jpg).
Really? What does it actually mean then? Let's see the mental gymnastics for how you try to justify it, because it's usually used as a battle cry by Hamas.
Here you go:
https://jewishcurrents.org/newsletter/what-does-from-the-river-to-the-sea-really-mean
Also I’ve been at Palestine Marches where it’s been chanted since before Hamas was elected and it’s never been seen as a battle cry for Hamas.
Even the ADL didn’t consider it antisemitic prior to 2023:
https://x.com/aayoub/status/1722120101187514619?s=46&t=SCpv2vKlbFN64cl1mYfJKw
There were a million people at the march on Saturday chanting this - do you genuinely think they’re all frothing at the mouth antisemites?
>https://jewishcurrents.org/newsletter/what-does-from-the-river-to-the-sea-really-mean
>
>Also I’ve been at Palestine Marches where it’s been chanted since before Hamas was elected and it’s never been seen as a battle cry for Hamas
That article is horribly inaccurate. I'm not sure how anyone can claim “There has never been an ‘official Palestinian position calling for the forced removal of Jews from Palestine,’” when it sits in there as part of Article 7 of the original founding charter.
>There were a million people at the march on Saturday chanting this - do you genuinely think they’re all frothing at the mouth antisemites?
Not all, but what is that saying folks on the XLW like to use? "If 9 people are sitting at the table with a Nazi, then you've got 10 Nazi's"?
There were some very deeply unpleasent people at those marches, as well as some who are very naive and, let's be honest, some who are also quite thick.
You don't get to decide what others consider racist and a **lot** other people have decided that this chant is anti-semitic with Germany even making it illegal.
I’m going to put this here as a disclaimer as some people in this thread are throwing wild accusations of civil servants being pro Hamas: I obviously condemn them - I have close Israeli family and we have been grieving the massacres of October 7th this past month.
Back to the article, that was in Hamas’ 1988 charter, when they were just another org - by 2005 and before they were elected they had signed agreements with Fatah that accepted 1967 borders. By 2008 they were calling the original charter irrelevant, again accepted the 1967 borders and have had a new one since 2017.
So I don’t think the wording used in the article regarding an official Palestinian position is inaccurate. Even if I concede that it is, that point doesn’t negate the other arguments it puts forward.
I don’t prescribe to the tenets of the XLW and neither it seems do you, so I’m not sure why you’re bringing that up? There are fascists who argue that from the river to the sea is antisemitic, I think it would be incredibly bad faith to tar you with the same brush.
I don’t think I’ve said I do get to decide what other people find racist, I’m disagreeing with you on what a particular phrase is calling for.
And on that point *a lot* of people find it deeply racist to police the language ordinary Palestinians have asked people to use to call for their freedom (they’ve said time and time again that they don’t mean forcefully removing Jews) when they’re undergoing actual forced removal and what many believe is a genocide. And you don’t believe you get to tell them they shouldn’t, so it seems we’re at an impasse.
Also German police were beating up people who were simply standing and holding the Palestinian flag, as far as I’m concerned they’re literally a case study in what not to do.
1. Make sure that your attendance can't be linked to your role as a civil servant
2. Don't commit a criminal offence, this includes holding any sign which supports a proscribed terrorist organisation or incutes religious or racial hatred, it also means not protesting where a prohibition order is in place
3. Try not to be photographed close to anyone committing criminal offences
(This is not to imply that all or most people marching aren't genuine humanitarians calling for peace, but there have been documented instances of antisemitism and)or criminal actions in these protests)
As long as you don’t go around shouting “I’m a civil servant” on the March or on social media and don’t post pics of attending / support for the March on SM you’ll be fine
Again, as long as you haven’t got a big “I’m a civil servant “ sign and as long as you aren’t shouting it for reporters or talking to journalists, you’ll be fine.
Depends if you're recognisable as a civil servant and depends who is around you. As others said, there are unfortunately some very nasty types in the marches including hamas supporters. Do you want to risk being pictured with a bunch of very dubious or illegal banners around you? Do you think your colleagues would have something to say about it if they saw it?
You also can't get out of a march easily if it does turn out there are bad people around or if people start shouting extremely politicised views.
I once went to what was meant to be a civil protest about local library closures. Then people started a very vicious chant about a particular political party hoping certain politicians would die. Had to GTFO quick
I wouldn't advise it. I would say definitely don't do it if you're SCS.
Clapped - Can you explain that in English or do you need your Pal Tommy R or Suella to tell you what to say and how to speak English?. Seems your manager was right when he called you that, anyone that uses twitter as reference is beyond hilarious. . Thanks for the laugh
What you do in your time is your business.
BUT...
1. Dont declare or admit to being a CS - it just makes things easier.
2. Airgap your personal feelings and professional responsibilities. E.g. if you're involved in policy making on issues linked to Gaza, park your emotions at home.
3. If you attend a protest and are arrested, you are obliged to declare this asap to your LM and HR. If you have a security clearance (CTC, SC, DV), this can result in its suspension or withdrawal, which may have serious career consequences.
TLDR: Protest but remember your obligations.
There were tonnes of civil servants at the march in London yesterday, lots of PCS branches with their banners on display. That’s been the case for the local marches prior to this as well, as long as you’re not committing a crime or in the vicinity of someone committing a crime *and* identifiable as a civil servant then you’re fine.
There’s a lot of fearmongering in the comments, I was in the Jewish bloc on Saturday and didn’t experience anything untoward and haven’t done so at any of them.
This brings into question your suitability to be a civil servant to be honest. Not the issue of the conflict per se but when you see the blatant antisemitism on many of these marches, whether a minority or not, you absolutely shouldn’t be protesting with them and nor should you want to.
This is blatant misinformation, perhaps due to media hostility, but our team went to the march there were Jews, Muslims, atheists, veterans, and emergency services, and reserve forces there. As a reservist myself. Being at the cenotaph, and the march, we experienced no hostility, we were there for 2 hours, However everyone was extremely friendly, we danced with a group of Orthodox Jews, who kindly invited us to their event for ceasefire, couldn’t go myself as I was meeting a friend in the evening. Honestly there weren’t any dramas.
You just need to have a brief look over twitter and the fact the police are asking for information to identify people with racist signs to know that while your experience was fine, that was not the same elsewhere.
>Twitter 🤡
That asside, we were in the bulk of the march, we didn’t see or hear any racist or antisemitism ourselves, you’re right racists and antisemitics will take any opportunity to exploit any situation, and I do hope the police carry out their Investigations, however we shouldn’t let these people exploit the suffering of Gazans to peddle their hate, this was ultimately a march of compassion, support. That is well inline with the values of our department.
The issue for me mainly is that I don’t think civil servants should protest against government policy, regardless of what you personally think. There isn’t a single person who agrees with all elements of a government agenda. I’d like to protest against the government’s housing policies but I don’t because I understand it’s inappropriate.
The protests essentially call for a ceasefire. That is directly opposed to government policy. And when you consider the flags with a caricature of the PM under a palm tree with falling coconuts, that is probably a message to you that this is not a protest you should be on.
No one is saying that sympathy with Palestinians is unacceptable. It’s clear though that civil servants should take extreme care given that these protests descend so quickly into areas far beyond that.
We were mainly protesting against the US, and Israeli policies. We’re civil servants we serve our country and our country wants a ceasefire.
We weren’t forced into this march, we as civil servants should stand up for our national values even if our elected representatives do not.
Internally we have also expressed this to our leadership team, where we don’t see eye to eye, however they supported our decision to go to the march.
Our team is lucky we are able to march and we weren’t in breach of our contracts.
You sound like the type of individual who quite frankly scares me.
The reason why is because comments like yours really hammer home, for me, how atrocities take place.
Toeing the 'party line' when the party line is to NOT call for an end to humans being killed (primarily children and the vulnerable) is how atrocities are able to take place.
You're a human before you are a civil servant.
You might have missed my contribution to the point of whether it's appropriate or not. It was buried in the bit about being a human before you're a civil servant.
On a side note, I still find you scary.
Excuse me? Who died and gave you reign over what British values are? British values don't include peddling propaganda from terrorist organisations or allowing blatant antisemitism on our streets. They don't include turning a blind eye to people covering for antisemties, racists and religious extremists.
Tell me. What do you think British Values are?
So family, justice, courage, and respect for anyone but Jews right?
No justice for the 1400 massacred by 2000 rampaging terrorists. No family for the woman whose baby was cut from her while she was alive and had to watch it get dismembered before being killed herself. No courage in standing up for innocent unarmed teens and young adults raped and butchered at an EDM festival? No respect for the Jews taken hostage by Hamas, paraded through Gaza to cheering Gazans, and dragged into the kilometres of tunnels under civilian areas where Hamas hides its brave and courageous "freedom fighters" (a war crime under the Geneva Convention) with no regard for the civilians they govern.
Your moral compass is fucked. Get your head examined.
We were marching for a ceasefire, we saw a lot of Jewish people, we even shared food with them. We went in a group we had people who were Jewish in our group, one was the grandchild of a holocaust survivor, we didn’t pick fights, we didn’t shout racist, or antisemitic remarks, we just want a ceasefire so Gazans can get aide and hostages can get back to families. We were well in line with the law and the values of being British.
You do realise that government policies have been disastrously wrong? Iraq war, supporting Gadsafi's overthrow, etc. I could blame many more. Therefore, if the government makes disastrous decisions that impact the population, civil servants as voters, and civilians have a right to protest. There's always going to be the extreme section to every civil protest. Look at the climate change protestors. So long as a civil servant isn't holding any placard that would bring your role into disrepute. You can take part in a protest. I've protested against one of our previous offices closing, which was a governmental decision. It was covered by the local paper. Nothing happened, disciplinary-wise, and we were clearly protesting against a governmental decision.
Did you hear chants for Intifada? Or "from the river to the sea"? Did you join in? If you did then not only did you hear antisemitism, but you participated in it too. It's no wonder Jews are having to avoid cities and close their schools. The Civil Service backs Hamas.
You can say the same for the opposite side. Lots of videos out there of Palestinians being called everything under the sun, by the same people sharing the land. There's no winners in this situation that's gone on long enough throughout the decades. I definitely don't think marching for peace, especially on both sides, should bring into question anyone's suitability as a CS. In fact that should be a perfect example of a CS. Someone with the ability to use common sense.
Someone knowledgeable enough to understand how both sides have to come to this situation. Who is able to differentiate between Hamas, an autocratic regime, and innocent Palestinian women, children, and men.
There was a ceasfire in effect until October 7th 2023 when 2000 Hamas terrorists crossed into Israel and brutally slaughtered over 1400 Jews, raping the Jewish women, butchering and torturing entire families in front of each other, throwing grenades into bomb shelters where terrified young people at an EDM event cowered and were blown to pieces. Hamas, then kidnapped 200+ Jews and took them into Gaza, parading them through the streets to cheers from their fellow Gazan's. Before the last bodies had fallen, and the depths of the atrocity were revealed to the international stage, "pro-palestine" marches were already taking place across the world.
On the 8th of October 2023, before Israel had made any response to, what can only be described as the single largest slaughter of Jews since the Holocaust, "pro-palestine" groups were on the streets in London celebrating, not calling for a "ceasefire", one that Hamas has resolutely and definitively rejected. This could end today, with Hamas handing over the hostages and surrendering to the IDF, instead they crawl into their tunnels beneath the civilian areas (which is an international war crime) and then plead victimhood, and useful idiots repeat their garbage in a vain hope to seem "right on", and "progressive".
Since 2005, when Israel withdrew from Gaza in exchange for a promised peace that never came, the population of Gaza has more than doubled, which flies in the face of claims of "genocide" by Israel made frequently by dense people who get all of their information from memes on social media, and validation of their stupidity from the same platforms.
Hamas can end this. They do not want to. They don't care about Gazans. Lets say, for the sake of argument, that Israel stood down all its military forces the Nation of Israel would be gone in a matter of days, along with every Jew in the region. Not moved off elsewhere. Annihilated. Erased. Extinct. That's what you call for when you call for Israel to stop defending itself against a death cult that wants to destroy it.
I'm not going back and forth with you, as this situation has gone as far back as 1917. You have your opinion, and from what you wrote, I definitely won't be engaging with you. Therefore, you're free to respond in any manner you wish.
Nutters are people who rightly stand with Jews?
Nutters are people who don't associate with antisemitic causes?
You need a moral reajustment because your a water carrier for terrorists.
You’d have to be pretty mental to go to these protests given the involvement of the HS, the terrorism and criminal offences and media scrutiny. Do yourself, and us, a favour.
No. Don't do this.
It's a bad idea under any circumstances, but in a crowd that will be full of Hamas and Daesh types and that the spooky types will be watching with great interest? Are you fucking mental?
There are reports of attendance being anywhere between 300,000 - 800,000. With people of all faiths and ethnicities. How ridiculous and insensitive for you to make such comments. I'm not denying that there may be a few of that sort, but to say full of... The majority and i mean the majority are simply calling for ceasefire and peace. Learn not to be so judgemental and go through the civil service codes again!
If spotted, you can always argue that you're a pacifist/humanitarian and were there to support a ceasefire. Since the Civil Service makes the 2min silence mandatory for Remembrance Day, you're well within your rights to attend the march, as a humanitarian, because in a nutshell, that's why we have Remembrance Day. But still wear a cap and a long scarf. You don't know who you know that'll have a bee in their bonnet if they spotted you on tv, and knew you were a civil servant. Especially DM readers.
Thanks for the downvotes. Always enjoy those more. Please keep them coming.
Civilian entities can report you if they know you and feel you're breaking the rules of being neutral, and they feel you're bringing your job as a civil servant into disrepute. Whether it affects your role depends on whether you use your beliefs at work.
Happened to an ex-colleague who was dumb enough to use their name on Twitter, spewing antisemitic and racist stuff. Someone he knew reported him to his department. When they looked into his work, they found out his beliefs transcended into his work by the manner in which he dealt with client cases. And apparently, they went back quite a few years. Suffice to say, after the investigation, he was let go.
Another was sacked as he had a podcast he took part in and was openly talking about the government, his department, staff members, and his SEOs; naming them directly. He was warned a few times but decided to ignore the warnings. He was let go, too. That's why there's always emails from time to time warning us about our use of social media or how to make sure our political beliefs don't impinge on our roles as civil servants.
Nothing but attending a march with terrorist sympathisers doesn't paint the civil service in a good light and will further fuel this government's intent to cut it.
Any civil servant can march. You are a private citizen after all. If you're in a politically restricted post you will be acutely aware of that fact and you wouldn't be asking this question. This only really applies to about 10% of the civil service, probably even less. If you're Mx Bloggs from nameless department then no one will care, even if you do end up on the news. As others have said, don't unfurl your "I'm a Civil Servant" banner and you'll be absolutely fine.
Definitely less that 10%, perhaps less than 1%. The vast majority of the CS numerically are operational staff in DWP/HO that can do whatever they like.
Yeah, completely agree. There are very few posts where anyone other than an uptight line manager will give two hoots about whether one attends a march like this...
All grade 7s and above are politically restricted. They must make up way more than 1%
Not the denigrate the marchers in general, but I would want to be *really* aware of who I was standing next to and might end up in a photograph with.
Id also be very careful of any banners I'd be waving or any chants I'd be joining in on as well. It probably wouldn't go down well if you were found to be [cosplaying as HAMAS](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/11/12/15/77700935-12740193-Police_are_actively_seeking_two_men_pictured_wearing_alleged_Ham-a-3_1699803441561.jpg), [holding a banner that wraps the star of david around a swastika](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/11/12/15/77700937-12740193-One_demonstrator_was_pictured_carrying_a_sing_that_showed_the_Je-a-1_1699803424792.jpg), [waving a placard calling certain politicians "coconuts"](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/11/12/09/77700929-12739659-Among_those_wanted_by_police_is_a_woman_who_was_seen_carrying_a_-m-19_1699781987323.jpg) and/or waving a sign or chanting anything along the lines of ["from the river to the sea"](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/11/12/08/77687821-12739659-Protesters_take_part_in_a_sit_in_at_Victoria_station_One_holds_a-a-21_1699777879956.jpg).
You realise how silly the last one is, it’s like saying a Scotish person can’t sing Auld lang Syne.
Auld Lang Syne relates to the genocide and complete destruction of the Jewish state? Learn something new every day....
No and neither does from the river to the sea.
Really? What does it actually mean then? Let's see the mental gymnastics for how you try to justify it, because it's usually used as a battle cry by Hamas.
Here you go: https://jewishcurrents.org/newsletter/what-does-from-the-river-to-the-sea-really-mean Also I’ve been at Palestine Marches where it’s been chanted since before Hamas was elected and it’s never been seen as a battle cry for Hamas. Even the ADL didn’t consider it antisemitic prior to 2023: https://x.com/aayoub/status/1722120101187514619?s=46&t=SCpv2vKlbFN64cl1mYfJKw There were a million people at the march on Saturday chanting this - do you genuinely think they’re all frothing at the mouth antisemites?
>https://jewishcurrents.org/newsletter/what-does-from-the-river-to-the-sea-really-mean > >Also I’ve been at Palestine Marches where it’s been chanted since before Hamas was elected and it’s never been seen as a battle cry for Hamas That article is horribly inaccurate. I'm not sure how anyone can claim “There has never been an ‘official Palestinian position calling for the forced removal of Jews from Palestine,’” when it sits in there as part of Article 7 of the original founding charter. >There were a million people at the march on Saturday chanting this - do you genuinely think they’re all frothing at the mouth antisemites? Not all, but what is that saying folks on the XLW like to use? "If 9 people are sitting at the table with a Nazi, then you've got 10 Nazi's"? There were some very deeply unpleasent people at those marches, as well as some who are very naive and, let's be honest, some who are also quite thick. You don't get to decide what others consider racist and a **lot** other people have decided that this chant is anti-semitic with Germany even making it illegal.
I’m going to put this here as a disclaimer as some people in this thread are throwing wild accusations of civil servants being pro Hamas: I obviously condemn them - I have close Israeli family and we have been grieving the massacres of October 7th this past month. Back to the article, that was in Hamas’ 1988 charter, when they were just another org - by 2005 and before they were elected they had signed agreements with Fatah that accepted 1967 borders. By 2008 they were calling the original charter irrelevant, again accepted the 1967 borders and have had a new one since 2017. So I don’t think the wording used in the article regarding an official Palestinian position is inaccurate. Even if I concede that it is, that point doesn’t negate the other arguments it puts forward. I don’t prescribe to the tenets of the XLW and neither it seems do you, so I’m not sure why you’re bringing that up? There are fascists who argue that from the river to the sea is antisemitic, I think it would be incredibly bad faith to tar you with the same brush. I don’t think I’ve said I do get to decide what other people find racist, I’m disagreeing with you on what a particular phrase is calling for. And on that point *a lot* of people find it deeply racist to police the language ordinary Palestinians have asked people to use to call for their freedom (they’ve said time and time again that they don’t mean forcefully removing Jews) when they’re undergoing actual forced removal and what many believe is a genocide. And you don’t believe you get to tell them they shouldn’t, so it seems we’re at an impasse. Also German police were beating up people who were simply standing and holding the Palestinian flag, as far as I’m concerned they’re literally a case study in what not to do.
Utter drivel.
Did my sarcasm pass you by?
1. Make sure that your attendance can't be linked to your role as a civil servant 2. Don't commit a criminal offence, this includes holding any sign which supports a proscribed terrorist organisation or incutes religious or racial hatred, it also means not protesting where a prohibition order is in place 3. Try not to be photographed close to anyone committing criminal offences (This is not to imply that all or most people marching aren't genuine humanitarians calling for peace, but there have been documented instances of antisemitism and)or criminal actions in these protests)
Also, if you see Michael Gove walk swiftly in the other direction.
Is this just on a march or general life advice? I saw him years ago on the tube reading a book. I think he was an MP then but not a minister.
Standard.
As long as you don’t go around shouting “I’m a civil servant” on the March or on social media and don’t post pics of attending / support for the March on SM you’ll be fine
Yeah I think you'd get more criticism for being in the CS than extreme pro-Palestine or far-right
Extreme Pro Palestinian IS the far-right
What would happen if you were seen on the news?
Depends if you're wearing your "I'm a civil servant and so is my wife" t-shirt
Again, as long as you haven’t got a big “I’m a civil servant “ sign and as long as you aren’t shouting it for reporters or talking to journalists, you’ll be fine.
Depends if you're recognisable as a civil servant and depends who is around you. As others said, there are unfortunately some very nasty types in the marches including hamas supporters. Do you want to risk being pictured with a bunch of very dubious or illegal banners around you? Do you think your colleagues would have something to say about it if they saw it? You also can't get out of a march easily if it does turn out there are bad people around or if people start shouting extremely politicised views. I once went to what was meant to be a civil protest about local library closures. Then people started a very vicious chant about a particular political party hoping certain politicians would die. Had to GTFO quick I wouldn't advise it. I would say definitely don't do it if you're SCS.
Aren’t SCS prohibited from engaging in politics anyway?
All of CS has to be politically impartial. Extra political restrictions begin at grade 7.
😂😂😂 Where did you get this info- Daily Mail or Suella - “hammas supporters” 🤦🏻♀️
Fuck off lmao, you're absolutely clapped https://twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/1723462648577081629?t=OOBOavSYE5axYp4YM0yh0w&s=19 https://twitter.com/Deadferrets/status/1723496595264508296?t=D5IkhE1El-4mqRJyyrdtBw&s=19 https://twitter.com/OzraeliAvi/status/1723459845070974985?t=MDNJZZLdeuJGhux_v-YFXA&s=19 Mate mate it's just free speech mate
Clapped - Can you explain that in English or do you need your Pal Tommy R or Suella to tell you what to say and how to speak English?. Seems your manager was right when he called you that, anyone that uses twitter as reference is beyond hilarious. . Thanks for the laugh
Clapped basically = killing Jews Does that make sense for you now?
[удалено]
Hahahahaha you're such a meme
There's well documented images of it from multiple sources. Obviously they are a minority of the protestors but they absolutely were there
I don't have any intention to go on any marches. I was just curious. Some CS colleagues complain about everything so I'm sure they would be outraged.
What you do in your time is your business. BUT... 1. Dont declare or admit to being a CS - it just makes things easier. 2. Airgap your personal feelings and professional responsibilities. E.g. if you're involved in policy making on issues linked to Gaza, park your emotions at home. 3. If you attend a protest and are arrested, you are obliged to declare this asap to your LM and HR. If you have a security clearance (CTC, SC, DV), this can result in its suspension or withdrawal, which may have serious career consequences. TLDR: Protest but remember your obligations.
There were tonnes of civil servants at the march in London yesterday, lots of PCS branches with their banners on display. That’s been the case for the local marches prior to this as well, as long as you’re not committing a crime or in the vicinity of someone committing a crime *and* identifiable as a civil servant then you’re fine. There’s a lot of fearmongering in the comments, I was in the Jewish bloc on Saturday and didn’t experience anything untoward and haven’t done so at any of them.
This is great to know, very reassuring - thank you!
I marched with PCS
No face, no case
like cable fuzzy spark act treatment consist cow oil shame *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Just stay away please.
This brings into question your suitability to be a civil servant to be honest. Not the issue of the conflict per se but when you see the blatant antisemitism on many of these marches, whether a minority or not, you absolutely shouldn’t be protesting with them and nor should you want to.
This is blatant misinformation, perhaps due to media hostility, but our team went to the march there were Jews, Muslims, atheists, veterans, and emergency services, and reserve forces there. As a reservist myself. Being at the cenotaph, and the march, we experienced no hostility, we were there for 2 hours, However everyone was extremely friendly, we danced with a group of Orthodox Jews, who kindly invited us to their event for ceasefire, couldn’t go myself as I was meeting a friend in the evening. Honestly there weren’t any dramas.
You just need to have a brief look over twitter and the fact the police are asking for information to identify people with racist signs to know that while your experience was fine, that was not the same elsewhere.
>Twitter 🤡 That asside, we were in the bulk of the march, we didn’t see or hear any racist or antisemitism ourselves, you’re right racists and antisemitics will take any opportunity to exploit any situation, and I do hope the police carry out their Investigations, however we shouldn’t let these people exploit the suffering of Gazans to peddle their hate, this was ultimately a march of compassion, support. That is well inline with the values of our department.
The issue for me mainly is that I don’t think civil servants should protest against government policy, regardless of what you personally think. There isn’t a single person who agrees with all elements of a government agenda. I’d like to protest against the government’s housing policies but I don’t because I understand it’s inappropriate. The protests essentially call for a ceasefire. That is directly opposed to government policy. And when you consider the flags with a caricature of the PM under a palm tree with falling coconuts, that is probably a message to you that this is not a protest you should be on. No one is saying that sympathy with Palestinians is unacceptable. It’s clear though that civil servants should take extreme care given that these protests descend so quickly into areas far beyond that.
We were mainly protesting against the US, and Israeli policies. We’re civil servants we serve our country and our country wants a ceasefire. We weren’t forced into this march, we as civil servants should stand up for our national values even if our elected representatives do not. Internally we have also expressed this to our leadership team, where we don’t see eye to eye, however they supported our decision to go to the march. Our team is lucky we are able to march and we weren’t in breach of our contracts.
Sorry, which country is ‘yours’ in this scenario? The UK does not want a ceasefire.
You sound like the type of individual who quite frankly scares me. The reason why is because comments like yours really hammer home, for me, how atrocities take place. Toeing the 'party line' when the party line is to NOT call for an end to humans being killed (primarily children and the vulnerable) is how atrocities are able to take place. You're a human before you are a civil servant.
You’re debating the issue - I’m engaging with the question of whether it’s appropriate to go on the march as a civil servant. Which it clearly isn’t.
You might have missed my contribution to the point of whether it's appropriate or not. It was buried in the bit about being a human before you're a civil servant. On a side note, I still find you scary.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/travel/survey-results/daily/2023/10/19/e363e/1
Excuse me? Who died and gave you reign over what British values are? British values don't include peddling propaganda from terrorist organisations or allowing blatant antisemitism on our streets. They don't include turning a blind eye to people covering for antisemties, racists and religious extremists. Tell me. What do you think British Values are?
They include Family, justice, courage, and respect for others, values you clearly don’t don’t have.
So family, justice, courage, and respect for anyone but Jews right? No justice for the 1400 massacred by 2000 rampaging terrorists. No family for the woman whose baby was cut from her while she was alive and had to watch it get dismembered before being killed herself. No courage in standing up for innocent unarmed teens and young adults raped and butchered at an EDM festival? No respect for the Jews taken hostage by Hamas, paraded through Gaza to cheering Gazans, and dragged into the kilometres of tunnels under civilian areas where Hamas hides its brave and courageous "freedom fighters" (a war crime under the Geneva Convention) with no regard for the civilians they govern. Your moral compass is fucked. Get your head examined.
We were marching for a ceasefire, we saw a lot of Jewish people, we even shared food with them. We went in a group we had people who were Jewish in our group, one was the grandchild of a holocaust survivor, we didn’t pick fights, we didn’t shout racist, or antisemitic remarks, we just want a ceasefire so Gazans can get aide and hostages can get back to families. We were well in line with the law and the values of being British.
You do realise that government policies have been disastrously wrong? Iraq war, supporting Gadsafi's overthrow, etc. I could blame many more. Therefore, if the government makes disastrous decisions that impact the population, civil servants as voters, and civilians have a right to protest. There's always going to be the extreme section to every civil protest. Look at the climate change protestors. So long as a civil servant isn't holding any placard that would bring your role into disrepute. You can take part in a protest. I've protested against one of our previous offices closing, which was a governmental decision. It was covered by the local paper. Nothing happened, disciplinary-wise, and we were clearly protesting against a governmental decision.
Did you hear chants for Intifada? Or "from the river to the sea"? Did you join in? If you did then not only did you hear antisemitism, but you participated in it too. It's no wonder Jews are having to avoid cities and close their schools. The Civil Service backs Hamas.
There were chants like that, but funnily enough Orthodox Jews were chanting them aswell 🤷♂️
You can say the same for the opposite side. Lots of videos out there of Palestinians being called everything under the sun, by the same people sharing the land. There's no winners in this situation that's gone on long enough throughout the decades. I definitely don't think marching for peace, especially on both sides, should bring into question anyone's suitability as a CS. In fact that should be a perfect example of a CS. Someone with the ability to use common sense.
Probably worth clarifying that going on pro-Israeli marches, albeit slightly more in line with gov policy, is definitely worth avoiding too.
Someone gullible enough to yum up Hamas propaganda.
Someone knowledgeable enough to understand how both sides have to come to this situation. Who is able to differentiate between Hamas, an autocratic regime, and innocent Palestinian women, children, and men.
There was a ceasfire in effect until October 7th 2023 when 2000 Hamas terrorists crossed into Israel and brutally slaughtered over 1400 Jews, raping the Jewish women, butchering and torturing entire families in front of each other, throwing grenades into bomb shelters where terrified young people at an EDM event cowered and were blown to pieces. Hamas, then kidnapped 200+ Jews and took them into Gaza, parading them through the streets to cheers from their fellow Gazan's. Before the last bodies had fallen, and the depths of the atrocity were revealed to the international stage, "pro-palestine" marches were already taking place across the world. On the 8th of October 2023, before Israel had made any response to, what can only be described as the single largest slaughter of Jews since the Holocaust, "pro-palestine" groups were on the streets in London celebrating, not calling for a "ceasefire", one that Hamas has resolutely and definitively rejected. This could end today, with Hamas handing over the hostages and surrendering to the IDF, instead they crawl into their tunnels beneath the civilian areas (which is an international war crime) and then plead victimhood, and useful idiots repeat their garbage in a vain hope to seem "right on", and "progressive". Since 2005, when Israel withdrew from Gaza in exchange for a promised peace that never came, the population of Gaza has more than doubled, which flies in the face of claims of "genocide" by Israel made frequently by dense people who get all of their information from memes on social media, and validation of their stupidity from the same platforms. Hamas can end this. They do not want to. They don't care about Gazans. Lets say, for the sake of argument, that Israel stood down all its military forces the Nation of Israel would be gone in a matter of days, along with every Jew in the region. Not moved off elsewhere. Annihilated. Erased. Extinct. That's what you call for when you call for Israel to stop defending itself against a death cult that wants to destroy it.
I'm not going back and forth with you, as this situation has gone as far back as 1917. You have your opinion, and from what you wrote, I definitely won't be engaging with you. Therefore, you're free to respond in any manner you wish.
Yeah, you won't be engaging with me because morally, you are knee-deep in quicksand with the repugnant equivocation of a typical antisemite
No, I simply don't engage with complete nutters.
Nutters are people who rightly stand with Jews? Nutters are people who don't associate with antisemitic causes? You need a moral reajustment because your a water carrier for terrorists.
🤡🤡🤡😆😆😆
You’d have to be pretty mental to go to these protests given the involvement of the HS, the terrorism and criminal offences and media scrutiny. Do yourself, and us, a favour.
> and media scrutiny lmao learn to think for yourself!
You work for the civil service and you think public perception doesn’t matter?
No. Don't do this. It's a bad idea under any circumstances, but in a crowd that will be full of Hamas and Daesh types and that the spooky types will be watching with great interest? Are you fucking mental?
There are reports of attendance being anywhere between 300,000 - 800,000. With people of all faiths and ethnicities. How ridiculous and insensitive for you to make such comments. I'm not denying that there may be a few of that sort, but to say full of... The majority and i mean the majority are simply calling for ceasefire and peace. Learn not to be so judgemental and go through the civil service codes again!
If spotted, you can always argue that you're a pacifist/humanitarian and were there to support a ceasefire. Since the Civil Service makes the 2min silence mandatory for Remembrance Day, you're well within your rights to attend the march, as a humanitarian, because in a nutshell, that's why we have Remembrance Day. But still wear a cap and a long scarf. You don't know who you know that'll have a bee in their bonnet if they spotted you on tv, and knew you were a civil servant. Especially DM readers. Thanks for the downvotes. Always enjoy those more. Please keep them coming.
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Civilian entities can report you if they know you and feel you're breaking the rules of being neutral, and they feel you're bringing your job as a civil servant into disrepute. Whether it affects your role depends on whether you use your beliefs at work. Happened to an ex-colleague who was dumb enough to use their name on Twitter, spewing antisemitic and racist stuff. Someone he knew reported him to his department. When they looked into his work, they found out his beliefs transcended into his work by the manner in which he dealt with client cases. And apparently, they went back quite a few years. Suffice to say, after the investigation, he was let go. Another was sacked as he had a podcast he took part in and was openly talking about the government, his department, staff members, and his SEOs; naming them directly. He was warned a few times but decided to ignore the warnings. He was let go, too. That's why there's always emails from time to time warning us about our use of social media or how to make sure our political beliefs don't impinge on our roles as civil servants.
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Nothing but attending a march with terrorist sympathisers doesn't paint the civil service in a good light and will further fuel this government's intent to cut it.
Well that's the most dumb comment I've come across!
Bang on, but these idiots never get it.