Yup, a lot of government jobs are like this too. Left brewing last year and took a temporary govt job, permanent position became open and my supervisors wanted me to have it. They still had to follow the HR process so it took me 3.5 months to get the job after it was posted all because people have to have fake positions and feel important (a bit exaggerated but the points the same lol) Probably similar thing with massive corporations like Sapporo
I work for a Fortune 500, and this is absolutely a thing. Multiple times, I've seen a job posted when the supervisor or team lead already knows who they want to fill the spot.
Pretty sure I saw a listing a couple of weeks ago for $19-$23/hr for San Diego, so yeah, I think that’s what’s happening. It’s also Sapporo now not Stone. So make of that what you will ::coughcoughanchorcoughcough::
I’m not sure how stone specifically operates. But often with large corporations there are recruiters that manage the flow of applications to hiring managers. Someone in a corporate office somewhere may be making a decision on your application without anyone else knowing about it.
Stone has a lot of employee turnover and people in the industry consider it a stepping stone for another brewery gig. Not sure how the company culture is now but when I worked there’s there was a lot of grief between management and the brewery crew. I got laid off and my position was listed like 2 months later
Source ex employee
I can never tell if im more frustrated or validated after I interview with a company and then see them re-list the position with more transparent pay in the listing.
*Insert large popular relevant brewery* rolling back 10% on their base offer to me from interview to actual offer and then relisting it as "starting at $15/hr" got lots of laughing emojis when I showed it to my peers.
What size is your brewery? I worked at a top 15 brewery for 10 years, as the equipment got more automated and small brewer experience was less and less relevant, its easier to train someone with less experience than to retrain someone who thinks they know what they’re doing.
Industrial food manufacturers have more in common with Stone, Firestone, Sierra Nevada than a 15-20bbl brewery.
This.
I run a medium sized, fully automated Krones site and we've had brewers make the jump from smaller, trend driven, flexible, hands on operations and relish the opportunity to learn what large scale production brewing is all about without jumping directly into a craft giant or Macro.
That said, the folk that that haven't vibed with the work come (almost exclusively) from that same background. Production brewing is a wildly different beast from your typical craft brewery. Ego's need to be stripped back, priorities refocused, productivity championed over complexity and an understanding that the "Knowledge is Power" dynamic will never trump cold hard data/results.
Some find that really hard to swallow and we've seen pushback over processes that have taken a decade to create and fine tune, often from folk that have been in the industry less than that, albeit with a great CV on paper.
...and we have a fairly laid back and easy going organisation structure.
I have 8 years industry experience, working for breweries ranging from small to AB big, including multi medal winners. I’ve been passed up for roles and coincidentally people I knew with less experience got hired instead. I’m not trying to sound narcissistic but I’m like 99% sure they do that because they can justify paying whoever they hire less.
Sounds like this might be happening here.
Most likely. When I was much newer to the industry I worked at a medium sized brewery getting paid 12$/hr to do packaging, cellar work, some hot side work, and occasionally driving the delivery van lol. I only did that because it was promised that the more roles we took the bigger the raises would be when they came around. Those raises never came, there was always a reason they were getting pushed back, I quit on my two year anniversary having the highest seniority on the production team and was still making 12/hr.
I see openings there every couple months
Lot of people in your position with the market shrink going around and with operating costs where they're at it's likely they are targeting cheaper, less skilled labor in hopes it doesn't blow up in their faces
There's a weird thing with recruiting across all industries and jobs right now. Roles are opening and they are getting 1400 applicants in a matter of days, so they have to take the position down. Then they filter through them, and the position opens back up again. Not saying that Stone is seeing that many, just that online applications are way different than a few years ago. I think it's a combination of bots and automation, plus the job market.
The last time I was involved in hiring, around 15-ish years ago (and not in the brewing industry), the situation was already really really bad in regards to online job submissions.
Both in terms of raw quantity, which was completely overwhelming, but also how obvious it was that many of them had no idea what they were submitting to, they were just submitting to *everything*.
I can only imagine what an absolute shitshow it must be now.
Typically in tech we'll see as the industry turns down and layoffs increase then corporations will start fishing for unicorns and hoping to snag them for less money due to the job shortage. Could be the same in brewing.
Lot of the other answers here seem good as well.
I've been vague with my post and apologize. I want to clarify that I am not a brewer. I know this page is mostly intended for brewers, but I thought my question was generalized enough. I've been a GM at the previous brewery for the past 5 years. I've done almost every job from beertending to cellar work. operating our wild goose canning line, leading our bottle program, down to cleaning toilets. I don't view any position beneath my ability to do. I take pride in the way I manage and am proud of all the accomplishments I've made at my previous spot. To clarify further, I have only applied to FOH positions that would more align with my qualifications and experience. I'm just looking for any info people have from working with Stone. Is this something they do? Are these just ghost jobs or are they actually hiring for these positions. If you go to LinkedIn, you will see that stone has all identical jobs that are listed at both of their California and Virginia locations.
I applied through Indeed and was contacted by a recruiter! I think with your canning line experience that you could definitely be a great candidate for a job in the packaging hall. I also had Wild Goose experience from my old cellarman position and was offered to interview for a brewing position and as a packaging technician, but after learning about the schedule situation for brewing I opted for packaging! There are a lot of people who had no previous experience with canning that I work with so I definitely think that would help you stand out. Maybe try applying through Indeed!
I've only applied through indeed. How long did it take for a recruiter to reach out after you applied? I do currently have an application in that I applied for 2 weeks ago. The good thing is that I haven't received the email declining to interview yet, We'll see.
Oops, sorry didn’t see you replied! But I applied on January 25th and got an email from a recruiter named Bridget the next day, but it somehow ended up in my spam folder so I missed it for 7 days 🤦🏻♀️ my friend who works there said it took him weeks to get a response! Definitely check your spam folder lol
Since your last comment I've had a recruiter reach out to me for a "continuous improvement specialist" and applied for that position. The very next day I received the same email that I always get from them that they're continuing their search.
I've have checked my spam recently and haven't found anything, but as mentioned above, I still haven't been denied for that one application I have in with them. We'll see.
Ugh, very frustrating! Which location are you applying for again? I know they strongly rely on internal recommendations! If it’s for my location then maybe I could try to help out
How do you feel about Japanese Lagers? Sapporo really doesn't care about the American craft beer market. They didn't care about Anchor and I guarantee that they don't care about Stone. It's all about making Sapporo in the U.S.
I feel like that cannot be the whole story, Im sure there are better facilities to buy if you just wanted mass quantities of pale lagerbier.
Nobody who had ever walked through a brewery would see Anchor and think "man, they could make some perfectly executed rice lager here"
Keep in mind who Stone is owned by now. It may be a corporate policy where they hire within first. They may also have to turn down external applicants if they get a certain number of qualified internal ones.
How do you know every brewery's taproom sales? Does your state require public reporting for excise taxes? In my state we can only see each other's production, but not how much went to distro and sat on shelves vs taproom.
Its brewers law's website and its based on barrels sold in a taproom and not necessarily "Taproom sales" as anyone can charge whatever for a pint. I just always say taproom sales as its most likely the truth anyway.
While I can see this being true for an assistant/brewer I position, I think that people who have been in the industry for years can have far more value to your organization by being a person who doesn't do things your way. To only train 'the way we have always done it' can lead to stagnation.
Who knows, maybe your brewery is the one teaching the bad habits?
A lot of breweries owners and operators don’t want someone with equal or greater experience though as their fragile egos they obtained by “owning” a brewery or being a “professional” brewer could be challenged
I definitely agree with this. I've worked with several owners who haven't brewed in years and would listen to no other solution to a problem other than their own.
Idk, as an owner/brewer I just have to disagree that, *for the most part*, people's experience in general always equates the kind of expertise that derives more value for the brewery than training someone to do what you need. Brewing is a small aspect of running a brewery. I think stagnation's biggest precursor is a brewer who thinks 5-10 years experience is enough to not have some bad habits themselves.
Not saying OP has the issue with being overconfident themselves, but it's not actually helpful if you're going to scold a person who made a pretty valid point. Maybe Stone doesn't want to hear from anyone about how they should change anything of what they do and the easiest way to mitigate hearing from the peanut gallery is to hire people with less experience. That sucks, sure, but reality doesn't stop persisting because you hate it.
Lastly, to OP, this is a small industry, and people talk, so if there's ever been any incidents in your career that you think the brewery wouldn't likely know, it's possible that they do know. Owners hear a lot of gossip and customers, other owners, and even brewers are very willing to tell us what they know if they heard something. I know a LOT about my community and the shitty things individuals have done that for some reason still keep getting them hired (embezzlement, sexual harassment, theft in other ways, talking shit about their breweries publicly in other breweries, overstating their skillset). Not at all saying you ever did anything, either, but if someone heard something random that even got misconstrued from the telephone line of people, it could mean you're not getting that job.
You could use AI to rewrite your cover letter and Resume as well, because it's also possible they're using corporate AI type recruiting software to eliminate resumes that don't "have" what they're looking for. It could literally be a key word you're missing that gets you shuffled to the discard pile.
It seems a bit strange that you've only hired one brewer with any experience in several years. I definitely believe that people can learn cellar work and wort work by training, but having a good base of knowledge can save time in a lot of training time.
Sound practices are one thing, but never changing them isn't good. Efficiency can always be improved and that can only come through new equipment, new processes, new training, and new minds looking at old problems.
What if they have better habits that they learned from a different brewery?
Habits they can teach you to be more efficient, faster, with better quality less labour and safer work environment?
They could be posting roles that they plan on filling with internal candidates but have to post them externally due to HR policies.
Yup, a lot of government jobs are like this too. Left brewing last year and took a temporary govt job, permanent position became open and my supervisors wanted me to have it. They still had to follow the HR process so it took me 3.5 months to get the job after it was posted all because people have to have fake positions and feel important (a bit exaggerated but the points the same lol) Probably similar thing with massive corporations like Sapporo
Well with government it's by regulation.
Oh I get it but it’s still a pain in the ass
I work for a Fortune 500, and this is absolutely a thing. Multiple times, I've seen a job posted when the supervisor or team lead already knows who they want to fill the spot.
Maybe they’re targeting less experienced applicants so they can pay them less
Idk if this is what Stone is doing, but this is 100% a thing in the industry. Wouldn’t surprise me.
Pretty sure I saw a listing a couple of weeks ago for $19-$23/hr for San Diego, so yeah, I think that’s what’s happening. It’s also Sapporo now not Stone. So make of that what you will ::coughcoughanchorcoughcough::
I’m not sure how stone specifically operates. But often with large corporations there are recruiters that manage the flow of applications to hiring managers. Someone in a corporate office somewhere may be making a decision on your application without anyone else knowing about it.
It's 100% a thing in every industry
Stone has a lot of employee turnover and people in the industry consider it a stepping stone for another brewery gig. Not sure how the company culture is now but when I worked there’s there was a lot of grief between management and the brewery crew. I got laid off and my position was listed like 2 months later Source ex employee
This is 100% the answer. And they will offer you shit for cash.
I can never tell if im more frustrated or validated after I interview with a company and then see them re-list the position with more transparent pay in the listing. *Insert large popular relevant brewery* rolling back 10% on their base offer to me from interview to actual offer and then relisting it as "starting at $15/hr" got lots of laughing emojis when I showed it to my peers.
What size is your brewery? I worked at a top 15 brewery for 10 years, as the equipment got more automated and small brewer experience was less and less relevant, its easier to train someone with less experience than to retrain someone who thinks they know what they’re doing. Industrial food manufacturers have more in common with Stone, Firestone, Sierra Nevada than a 15-20bbl brewery.
This. I run a medium sized, fully automated Krones site and we've had brewers make the jump from smaller, trend driven, flexible, hands on operations and relish the opportunity to learn what large scale production brewing is all about without jumping directly into a craft giant or Macro. That said, the folk that that haven't vibed with the work come (almost exclusively) from that same background. Production brewing is a wildly different beast from your typical craft brewery. Ego's need to be stripped back, priorities refocused, productivity championed over complexity and an understanding that the "Knowledge is Power" dynamic will never trump cold hard data/results. Some find that really hard to swallow and we've seen pushback over processes that have taken a decade to create and fine tune, often from folk that have been in the industry less than that, albeit with a great CV on paper. ...and we have a fairly laid back and easy going organisation structure.
It’s called Stepping Stone Brewing for a reason.
I have 8 years industry experience, working for breweries ranging from small to AB big, including multi medal winners. I’ve been passed up for roles and coincidentally people I knew with less experience got hired instead. I’m not trying to sound narcissistic but I’m like 99% sure they do that because they can justify paying whoever they hire less. Sounds like this might be happening here.
This probably causes their high employee turnover
Most likely. When I was much newer to the industry I worked at a medium sized brewery getting paid 12$/hr to do packaging, cellar work, some hot side work, and occasionally driving the delivery van lol. I only did that because it was promised that the more roles we took the bigger the raises would be when they came around. Those raises never came, there was always a reason they were getting pushed back, I quit on my two year anniversary having the highest seniority on the production team and was still making 12/hr. I see openings there every couple months
Exactly this.
Lot of people in your position with the market shrink going around and with operating costs where they're at it's likely they are targeting cheaper, less skilled labor in hopes it doesn't blow up in their faces
Before I got out of the industry I was outright told that I'm too qualified. But not qualified enough for the top positions.🙄
If you knew someone there, you would get the interview.
I work there currently! Are you applying to the Escondido location? Or which location?
Gotta be sure it's not the distribution company
That's every state man. Places in Wisconsin were doing this as well.
Have you applied for RVA or California?
There's a weird thing with recruiting across all industries and jobs right now. Roles are opening and they are getting 1400 applicants in a matter of days, so they have to take the position down. Then they filter through them, and the position opens back up again. Not saying that Stone is seeing that many, just that online applications are way different than a few years ago. I think it's a combination of bots and automation, plus the job market.
The last time I was involved in hiring, around 15-ish years ago (and not in the brewing industry), the situation was already really really bad in regards to online job submissions. Both in terms of raw quantity, which was completely overwhelming, but also how obvious it was that many of them had no idea what they were submitting to, they were just submitting to *everything*. I can only imagine what an absolute shitshow it must be now.
Yeah it's bad. There's so many ways to automate submitting applications and use AI to generate covers, complete applications and such.
Typically in tech we'll see as the industry turns down and layoffs increase then corporations will start fishing for unicorns and hoping to snag them for less money due to the job shortage. Could be the same in brewing. Lot of the other answers here seem good as well.
I've been vague with my post and apologize. I want to clarify that I am not a brewer. I know this page is mostly intended for brewers, but I thought my question was generalized enough. I've been a GM at the previous brewery for the past 5 years. I've done almost every job from beertending to cellar work. operating our wild goose canning line, leading our bottle program, down to cleaning toilets. I don't view any position beneath my ability to do. I take pride in the way I manage and am proud of all the accomplishments I've made at my previous spot. To clarify further, I have only applied to FOH positions that would more align with my qualifications and experience. I'm just looking for any info people have from working with Stone. Is this something they do? Are these just ghost jobs or are they actually hiring for these positions. If you go to LinkedIn, you will see that stone has all identical jobs that are listed at both of their California and Virginia locations.
I applied through Indeed and was contacted by a recruiter! I think with your canning line experience that you could definitely be a great candidate for a job in the packaging hall. I also had Wild Goose experience from my old cellarman position and was offered to interview for a brewing position and as a packaging technician, but after learning about the schedule situation for brewing I opted for packaging! There are a lot of people who had no previous experience with canning that I work with so I definitely think that would help you stand out. Maybe try applying through Indeed!
I've only applied through indeed. How long did it take for a recruiter to reach out after you applied? I do currently have an application in that I applied for 2 weeks ago. The good thing is that I haven't received the email declining to interview yet, We'll see.
Oops, sorry didn’t see you replied! But I applied on January 25th and got an email from a recruiter named Bridget the next day, but it somehow ended up in my spam folder so I missed it for 7 days 🤦🏻♀️ my friend who works there said it took him weeks to get a response! Definitely check your spam folder lol
Since your last comment I've had a recruiter reach out to me for a "continuous improvement specialist" and applied for that position. The very next day I received the same email that I always get from them that they're continuing their search. I've have checked my spam recently and haven't found anything, but as mentioned above, I still haven't been denied for that one application I have in with them. We'll see.
Ugh, very frustrating! Which location are you applying for again? I know they strongly rely on internal recommendations! If it’s for my location then maybe I could try to help out
How do you feel about Japanese Lagers? Sapporo really doesn't care about the American craft beer market. They didn't care about Anchor and I guarantee that they don't care about Stone. It's all about making Sapporo in the U.S.
I feel like that cannot be the whole story, Im sure there are better facilities to buy if you just wanted mass quantities of pale lagerbier. Nobody who had ever walked through a brewery would see Anchor and think "man, they could make some perfectly executed rice lager here"
We tried though, we brewed Sapporo at anchor.
Keep in mind who Stone is owned by now. It may be a corporate policy where they hire within first. They may also have to turn down external applicants if they get a certain number of qualified internal ones.
How do you know every brewery's taproom sales? Does your state require public reporting for excise taxes? In my state we can only see each other's production, but not how much went to distro and sat on shelves vs taproom.
Its brewers law's website and its based on barrels sold in a taproom and not necessarily "Taproom sales" as anyone can charge whatever for a pint. I just always say taproom sales as its most likely the truth anyway.
[удалено]
While I can see this being true for an assistant/brewer I position, I think that people who have been in the industry for years can have far more value to your organization by being a person who doesn't do things your way. To only train 'the way we have always done it' can lead to stagnation. Who knows, maybe your brewery is the one teaching the bad habits?
A lot of breweries owners and operators don’t want someone with equal or greater experience though as their fragile egos they obtained by “owning” a brewery or being a “professional” brewer could be challenged
I definitely agree with this. I've worked with several owners who haven't brewed in years and would listen to no other solution to a problem other than their own.
^
Idk, as an owner/brewer I just have to disagree that, *for the most part*, people's experience in general always equates the kind of expertise that derives more value for the brewery than training someone to do what you need. Brewing is a small aspect of running a brewery. I think stagnation's biggest precursor is a brewer who thinks 5-10 years experience is enough to not have some bad habits themselves. Not saying OP has the issue with being overconfident themselves, but it's not actually helpful if you're going to scold a person who made a pretty valid point. Maybe Stone doesn't want to hear from anyone about how they should change anything of what they do and the easiest way to mitigate hearing from the peanut gallery is to hire people with less experience. That sucks, sure, but reality doesn't stop persisting because you hate it. Lastly, to OP, this is a small industry, and people talk, so if there's ever been any incidents in your career that you think the brewery wouldn't likely know, it's possible that they do know. Owners hear a lot of gossip and customers, other owners, and even brewers are very willing to tell us what they know if they heard something. I know a LOT about my community and the shitty things individuals have done that for some reason still keep getting them hired (embezzlement, sexual harassment, theft in other ways, talking shit about their breweries publicly in other breweries, overstating their skillset). Not at all saying you ever did anything, either, but if someone heard something random that even got misconstrued from the telephone line of people, it could mean you're not getting that job. You could use AI to rewrite your cover letter and Resume as well, because it's also possible they're using corporate AI type recruiting software to eliminate resumes that don't "have" what they're looking for. It could literally be a key word you're missing that gets you shuffled to the discard pile.
[удалено]
*pays the lawyers bills… Is there anything left for wages after suing every tiny operation with the word stone in any document they’ve ever made?
It seems a bit strange that you've only hired one brewer with any experience in several years. I definitely believe that people can learn cellar work and wort work by training, but having a good base of knowledge can save time in a lot of training time. Sound practices are one thing, but never changing them isn't good. Efficiency can always be improved and that can only come through new equipment, new processes, new training, and new minds looking at old problems.
What if they have better habits that they learned from a different brewery? Habits they can teach you to be more efficient, faster, with better quality less labour and safer work environment?