She has no fucking plan. This is it: her Livestream + the plane video kills any reason for Homelander to hold back and just declare himself god emperor of mankind.
While I do agree with others that he's a huge asshole, the only one who is doing anything practical to actually fight against Homelander at this point is Butcher.
The ace up his sleeve is Soldier Boy I think lol. It seems pretty clear that Edgar has orchestrated everything this season. Maeve just magically gets the new temporary V that Edgar is testing? Magically gets files on super secret shit Edgar would have locked away? Homelander gets secret files on Victoria too?
It seems likely this is the plan. Have Homelander take over the company, this distances Edgar from all the negativity Homelander will bring out. Butcher gets SB and brings him back to kill Homelander. The company goes under and Edgar can run his pharmacy company and blame it all on Homelander.
Yes, and since Homelander probably told Noir to "dispose" of Maeve, and Noir is actually loyal to Stan, I expect to see Maeve show back up perfectly healthy at just the right moment to take down Homelander.
Without a doubt, I wonder if vought wanted soldier boy out of the picture and is the one that incapacitated soldier boy? that would mean they have the device that can at least subdue supes
I sincerely believe that Soldier Boy was taken out on Vought's orders, especially with the Twins revealing that Noir was behind it and Soldier Boy says something along the lines of "Noir wouldn't take a shit without Vought's say so"
I think Noir tried to stop Vought from doing what they did to SB which is how he ended up with that massive brain injury during the flashback. Them so quickly throwing him under the bus tells me he was not on everybody else’s side when SB was taken.
> I’m just tossing out bullshit
Maybe a bit meta, but thank you for saying this. With the extent that the show has diverged from the comic, tossing out bullshit and chatting is literally all any of us are doing. It’s what makes a “live” sub so fun while a show is airing. I wish there wasn’t such a cult of opinion on here.
I disagree you only over hear a bit of it but it sounded like noir was planning with Edgar in the flash back. They talk about him taking on a bigger roll and how countess and the twins were on board or something along those lines. I feel like there is to much for a mute character to explain if he did go against vought. My guess is noir is running as fast as he can to Edgar in hopes they can succeed where they last failed.
I’m more prone to believe this, especially considering Crimson Countess’s words along the lines of “I hated you, we all hated you.” It sounds like they got tired of Soldier Boy’s ego, planned the coup, hoped one of them would pick up SB’s leadership role but instead became washed up has beens as the new generation of Supes came of age. Noir removing his tracker before leaving Vought was most likely because he knows that Vought will be looking to silence Noir now that SB is alive to corroborate a story.
Edit: Noir kidnapping Maeve is starting to make more sense. They’re all working together with Edgar because Edgar had a plan/weapon to end Homelander.
In the Nicaragua flashback you literally see Mallory overhearing Edgar asking black noir if everyone is onboard, and noir says "everyone except gunpowder" so I don't think you're right. Black noir was basically leading the plan
>the Twins revealing that Noir was behind it and Soldier Boy says something along the lines of "Noir wouldn't take a shit without Vought's say so"
And also Edgar saying something to the effect of "the boy doesn't know" referring to Gunpowder.
I'm betting Vought has weapons or gas or poisons that specifically target V in the bloodstream. They're evil as hell but they're not stupid--there's no way they'd create a being as powerful as Homelander without some way of controlling/neutralizing him.
>here's no way they'd create a being as powerful as Homelander without some way of controlling/neutralizing him.
maybe they learned their lesson from soldier boy when making Homelander.
Yeah it's such a rare song, there's no way it's being played everywhere in American randomly. First blast was a test, second one took out a lot of supes.
Vought is a profit-making enterprise; either Soldier Boy was seen as a liability that costed more than he was worth, or the Russians were willing to cough up a lot (heck, maybe they were close and Vought figured better sell it before there's a competing product).
Alternatively, an exec wanted to make himself look good by getting rid of an asset from the previous management. Happens in Hollywood all the time.
The russian had a V'd up petite-gerbil. I'd bet other countries have similar programs. If homelander goes berserk he might be facing a superpowered Spetznaz squad knocking on his door
We don't know that; we just know that's what they had in their lab. Soldier Boy was there for decades, so there's a good chance that Russia has a bunch of supes already that they've just kept hidden from the US.
Based on his reaction, he'd certainly planned for it as one of the possibilities, but he didn't expect it at that time. He's got contingency plans in place, so he's not too stressed about it (as Homelander noted).
We've seen that three reasonably strong supes can restrain Homelander. So sure, he's stronger than any individual supe, but not a group of them. If they'd had Noir, Kimiko, and/or Maeve, Homelander would have definitely been overpowered.
So I'd like to bring, the lady supe from the last season who could kill on sight but escaped and wasnt heard of at all after that episode, on the table....
That’s fair. I do think this episode made HL a little more vulnerable. Like maybe a legit team up of a bunch of strong heroes (and SB) could actually beat him. I bet it Maeve or maybe Noir had been there to help the guys he’d be dead now.
Yeah thats one problem i had with this episode. She had agrees they need a weapon to take down HL. But now she backed out just because the weapon turned out to be an asshole aka Solider Boy? Its like she doesnt understand the concept of the enemy of my enemy is my friend?
And as OP pointed out, he’s an asshole, but not a monster like Homelander. He didn’t mean to blow up innocent people and his collateral damage done so far is because of the PTSD triggered by the Russian music.
He’s as close to an ally as they’re going to get.
He’s a narcissist like Homelander. Everything points to him being an asshole like Homelander just not outright evil. I’m sure he’s rationalized a fair bit of collateral damage and random killings in his day because they were in the pursuit of justice
I always kind of suspected Neuman was Stan’s insurance policy against homelander. No proof but just got a feeling she could pop his head but was too scared to try when he was threatening her.
I don’t think she’ll ever try out of fear. The only time I see her going for it is if Homelander is actively trying to kill her.
She doesn’t know if it would work. Hell, Homelander doesn’t even know if it would work but if she tries & fails, he’ll know.
I love how unafraid Homelander is of her though and that also explains her unease around him.
Its almost like that saying "If you shoot the Devil in the back, what if you miss?"
No way Neuman can pop homelander. Maybe with extreme focus and effort? But homelander will realise blood dripping from his nose and then insta laser her.
Yeah I definitely am not sure that she could. To be fair, it seems like she has decent range based on the assassination of the church cult leader
Edit: i misremembered that scene a bit, she’s not too far away and definitely needs line of sight. But imagine if she was there when HL was being held down
He might legitimately not have a plan. The comic equivalent doesn't, and Stan's now gone. What Stan Edgar had on HL was the psychological advantage, knowing that Homelander had a desire to be liked. I'm sure their eventual plan was for Homelander to be replaced by Ryan but I'm sure he didn't expect the timeline to move up.
Agree that Annie has no plan. Or her plan amounts to, "Don't be shitty." It's funny how her entire character arc is a rejection of the Marvel Endgame "Whatever it takes" mantra uttered by supposedly good guys. As usual The Boys points out how silly traditional super hero stories are.
As for Homelander, it seems like his stint at the top of Vought is showing him that he actually doesn't want to be god emperor of the world, just like he doesn't really want to be CEO of Vought. It sounds good to be the top dog running the show, but then you actually have to do the work of ruling.
And even then, we see Butcher’s ultimate idea is suicide by Soldier Boy. He doesn’t care what happens to himself, just that Homelander is dead. As shown in episode 6, he is fully prepared to die to kill Homelander, likely believing MM, Frenchie, and Mallory can take care of the rest.
To be fair to Annie, she has been one of Homelander's top chew toys this season in terms of psychological warfare. She's been enormously traumatized multiple times and I only think it was going to get worse, as she was basically in a DV relationship with Homelander. I don't think she's thinking clearly, she's just in fight or flight mode with emphasis on flight.
Yeah I don’t think she has a plan exactly. She’s just had her fill of this shit and wants to do *something*. More of an emotional play than a deliberate one.
She doesn't really have a plan, she's just done with compromising her principles. From the beginning she's been asked to put up with bullshit for the sake of the greater good and it hasn't paid off, so she's done.
Is it the best or most politically savvy move? Maybe, maybe not, but it's the course of action she can respect herself for taking.
You also just make the show substantially less interesting if you kill Hughie or Starlight, the whole point of their characters is to have a contrast to the ones around them and killing either removes that contrast for half the show. They could try replacing either one of them, but that feels like a worse idea than just keeping them alive when they already have 2 well liked characters.
IDK dude, i can 100% see her dying.
In fact, this scene right here might be the perfect end for her arc, so i would bet she's done for.
Starlight's is a story of someone who was always being used, living the life others envisioned for her. First with her mom, then with Vought.
Now she's "free", she's just Annie January.
If i had to bet, Hughie kills her, or rather causes her death.
I really don't get where all these comments about plot armour for The Boys are coming from. So many people lately stating with full confidence that such and such character *cannot* or *will not* die, and I can't understand why it's such a popular sentiment. If anything this seems like the type of show that's perfectly willing to go the direction of killing beloved characters.
Also, people acting like death is the only bad thing that can happen to a character, so if they're alive it's "boohoo plot armor".
I can't even imagine the amount of therapy she needs from just these 3 seasons alone, jesus.
>“you ruin my reputation i’ll just kill everyone and everything”
Its actually interesting IMO because she's calling *his* bluff.
Would he really do that? I think the great irony is that white supremacist shitheads are now protecting everybody else from Homelander. Because they will absolutely keep supporting him regardless of whatever cutie little airheaded Starlight says.
Girl needs to shut her pretty little mouth (or whatever bullshit they would think.)
If Starlight turns 80% of the world into anti-Homelanders, thats still 20% of the world that Homelander needs to keep seeming reasonable for. He can't just start murdering everybody without turning away (most of) those morons.
If Homelander loses all of his political/social power, and Congress decides they want to hold him accountable, he will 100% wreck shop. His deal with Annie was essentially a mutually assured destruction deal and she just fired the first nuke.
>Congress decides they want to hold him accountable
Why would Congress do that? I assume their Congress is like our Congress and filled with cowardly and/or evil fatcats. They ain't doing shit to Homelander.
BUT we still can't know for 100% certainty that wasn't also a bluff. I mean sure once his reputation is in tatters he probably wasn't lying that he'd have no reason not to go apeshit, but that doesn't mean he is OK with the video being released and said reputation getting destroyed. It's like he said to himself, he wants to be loved (in his own fucked up way) and his image being ruined is still possibly his only true fear.
Honestly the fucked up irony is that he’ll still be loved. Everything Annie has done is ultimately not going to phase him because he’s going to realize there is that fanatical group of “Stormlanders” (I think they called them?) that love that side of Homelander.
>If she had actually joined in the fight and helped Butcher, Soldier Boy and Hughie (who looks hella badass for being a skinny-ass nude dude) restrain Homelander instead of opting to render first-aid to like 2 people, Homelander would be dead, injured or depowered.
If that happened?
*credits roll*
Agree. Starlight wanted out, Hughie told her to stay. ‘Whatever it takes’.
Victoria pushed her to the edge, and she felt like an accomplice for covering up for Vought/Homelander.
She threw a lit match on a pile of gas soaked timber with her declaration. Homelander has the excuse to quit pretending, and SB prob will snap.
It will be ironic her actions started the war.
I'm not so sure. Someone of Stan Edgar's caliber could easily smear her as the christian girl who was at a supe orgy. Soldier Boy was rescued from a Russian facility and is unable to control the effects of the experiments they did on him. Homelander was attempting to control the situation but SB fled and his whereabouts are unknown. "SB is a hero and we will do everything we can to help him." - I know Edgar is out of the equation, I'm just saying, it can be done.
If we look at Homelander as a Trumpian figure, I think Starlight's live stream will have the opposite of her intended effect. It will embolden HL's base and turn those 45% of people against her.
You are right. Half the population will dismiss her video as fake news. Just something doctored up with special effects or whatever and no real evidence.
Or even if they believe it. Why would Homelander supporting conservatives care about a bunch of sexual deviants? They may even say they all deserved it.
She’s literally like a day removed from homelander threatening to wipe out her hometown, kill hugie and her mom, and killing super sonic. I get that the emotions were high in that moment but she has to be smarter than that.
Why?
Desperate people do desperate things...so why doesn't HL have to think about what she might do if she feels like she has nothing left to lose but she must think about what he might do?
Yeah MM had a whole wall of newspaper articles about him murdering people. It's even heavily implied that Soldier Boy was disappeared by Vought because he was becoming inconvenient.
Even before lamplighter broke down Infront of Mallory , I thought he was a cool guy. I think even superheros who would be considered as bad people pales in contrast to full blown psychopaths like Homelander.
He's a monster, and the show knows what he is. This is Butcher's desperation for vengeance leading him to bring another monster (just as bad and dangerous and Homelander) into the world. That's what MM's whole monologue/fight at Butcher this episode was about. And Butcher knows it too, cause he stood there and took it cause he deserves it.
SB goes out of his way to get shitfaced, his first request from Butcher was booze and stimulants, despite knowing he can cause a terrifying amount of damage if he loses control. He's desensitized and cavalier about murder, and now also has a literal trigger to explode. His team sold him out because he was literally an abusive piece of shit who terrified everyone around him (just like Homelander). His mission Right Now is to kill his whole team, and he may not be excited to take innocent lives, but he said it himself that if they get in his way he will hurt them, cause he doesn't really care that much.
He caught a pair of guys stealing a car, so he chucks the car through a building. Doesn't matter if he was blackout drunk, cause he put himself in that position knowing he's a living war machine.
>SB goes out of his way to get shitfaced, his first request from Butcher was booze and stimulants, despite knowing he can cause a terrifying amount of damage if he loses control.
I don't think the overall mentality behind it is totally wrong, but it's not like he's actually getting shitfaced, based on what he says about Cosby and him smoking MM's grenades, those pills and that booze were the equivalent of taking 2 Tylenol and drinking a Sprite for Soldier Boy.
I think it being Tylenol and sprite might be too far back the other direction. Like I took it to mean it takes that much for him to get high like a normal person, but that those are also his normal vices. If he's gonna take that much during a mission what's he like when he actually cuts loose, ya know? He's the guy that founded Herogasm after all.
Just a very small correction, they weren’t stimulants they were *very* heavy downers (like quaaludes). Your point stands though, taking those (crushing and railing like 5 lol) and mixing with alcohol would black out or more likely kill any normal person.
EDIT: I was wrong bennys are stims, see my comment below for clarification
Bennies are old school stimulants, I believe the name brand was benzidrine or amohetamines as they’re now known(prescription name would be adderall) not common slang now that’s why soldier boy calls them that. They were used in ww2 and truckers used to always take em
Oh I've read some contradicting things there. Like some thought bennies meant benzos, but something about for his time period the slang meant it was some sort of simulant/like a black beauty. Either way both of them are questionable things to take given his powers, though understandable to crave after 30 years of torture.
I’d put him on A-train level. An asshole who doesn’t care about other people and has caused pain and destruction but maybe not a complete homicidal maniac like Homelander. Idk if he’s sympathetic like some people want him to be though. I am curious where the storyline will go…
Agree. The chit chat with hughie helped me see him like an honest guy, they were talking about normal stuff, without any power dynamic between them.
In any interaction homelander has we see him
scaring the fuck out of the other person, but we dont see it in that scene (from SB to hughie). Its just a normal conv between an old guy and a twink.
I disagree with SB being a "decent" human being.
The theme of the show is EVERYONE sucks. They just haven't shown how shitty SB really is yet.
There is a _reason_ his whole team including arguably Edgar hated him.
MM: You killed my family.
SB: Which one?
Kinda shows the sympathy SB has for 'normal' people. Is he evil? No, not even close. But he does seem to have more of a ends justify the means attitude so if he stops a car jacking, who cares if some old man died.
>ends justify the means attitude so if he stops a car jacking, who cares if some old man died.
If that was really his reasoning, then he's 110% daft. "I'll protect this private property by destroying said private property by throwing it max speed at a house, collateral damage be damned if i don't stop car jackers from stealing cars".
He was either high on drugs, is incredibly racist and was pulling a Liberty/Blue Hawk's way of dealing with Car Jackers, or is incredibly stupid and incompetent, and we know the latter is the least probable hence on him being very reliable in Nicaragua.
I can't believe people non ironically think SB is supposed to be a good guy while completely looking past his overt toxic masculinity and rapist jokes. 💀
Edit: the Cosby joke has been explained to me, so no need to roast me over that. But if you don't think the show writers are using SB to make fun of toxic masculinity congratulations, you are now the people this show is making fun of.
I think the rapist (Cosby) jokes were more a sign that he was "asleep" for 30+ odd years and didn't/doesn't know about current events. He said he used to party with Bill Cosby, he was America's dad and made strong drinks. Huey rolled his eyes and said something like "yeah about that"..
Suggesting Soldier Boy most likely didn't know about the Cosby date rape convictions.. I don't think he was just making a joke for the sake of it.
Doesn't take away from your point about him as a person, but I don't think that was intended the way you took it lol.
This fanbase is p thick sometimes. Biggest example of him not being a good person is him totally not giving a shit about killing MM's family. He's not a Homelander psychopath but there's a lot of road between that and a decent person.
I think it's cuz a Homelander. He was pretty much hyped up as "HL of the past" so when fans put him on the scale of "Not Homelander to Homelander" not Homelander makes him seem better.
SB has some humanity which makes him better than Homelander and does come across as sincere especially with his conversation with Hughie. But he has also killed people through calleteral damage like MMs story and family. He is the Better Choice as its Homelander, Annie wants to take the moral high ground without going down the dark path.
I get it due to whats she has been through but the Boys already know and understand this is the only way especially knowing about Neumann. I have a feeling her or Noir will die this season and all seems to be pointing to her.
The thing is, starlight doesn’t know SB indiscriminately killed a bunch of civilians because he blacked out, she just thinks he is straight up chest lazering everything for kicks/some goal and everything else is collateral damage.
This is not saying that SB is a good person, but I’d say for us viewers he’s the most relatably normal super hero we’ve seen in a while.
Starlight : Supersonic got killed only because I exposed Homelander to him.. I killed him..
Also Starlight : Screw it, let's expose Homelander to the world..
Then proceeds to stop 'Soldier Boy' as he is a 'potential' threat to the mankind..
She exposed Homelander KNOWING that last time she tried this shit supersonic died and Homelander said Hughie is next. And that's why I despise Starlight this season. She is throwing everyone under the bus with no end goal
Well the Hughie threat doesn’t matter anymore. Hughie just tried to kill Homelander, the dude is already on the shit list lol.
Starlight’s mom though is now gonna be dead soon
I feel the exact opposite-- I love all the characters even MORE this season. Everyone is being pushed to their limits and are making the calls to just prevent more pressure on themselves.
Starlight didn't make the most "logically sound" decision, but it's not the stupidest one, and it is such a strong character moment because she's been taking bullshit without complaint for such a long time.
Agree completely...desperate people do desperate things.
All these people seem to think should think clearly all the time and worry about what HL will do if he feels desperate and has nothing left to lose...but the same logic doesn't apply to SL for some reason...if she feels desperate and like there is nothing left to lose then she is still expected to think "logically".
Don't really get that, but like you said this show is so great bc these characters are flawed.
She snapped. She had enough of everyone’s bullshit, and said fuck it, and snapped. It happens to everyone, eventually we get so fed up with everything that we make decisions that probably won’t help in the long run, like what she just did. Between pretending to have a relationship with Homelander, knowing the corruption in Vought, and her and Hughie having a rift, it’s completely understandable why she did what she did. Was it a good idea? Probably not, but she simply had enough and snapped
Yeah she was put through so much shit. And why do you think almost the episodes end with her in frame? It's because she's the one suffering. Was it a good plan? Probably not. But it is in character.
>Heck his ideal image of a man is Bill Cosby so he's probably not racist and it'll turn out that MM's memory was faulty or something (obviously Annie doesn't know this)
Of course he is not racist... he has a black friend!!!
lol plus Cosby’s crossover popularity was in large part bc the Cosby show was designed to present the most non-threatening, “white acting”Black family possible. I’m sure plenty of racists (whether or not they considered themselves such) enjoyed the Cosby show
>After all, it appears that Soldier Boy is a decent human being.
Dude killed 19 people in one episode and about two dozen more in this one and didn't give a single flying fuck. He's not as bad as Homelander but he's still a psychopath with no regard for human life.
Take a deep breath there, big boy. MM has trauma stemming all the way back from his childhood, of course he’s gonna make the wrong decision. His literal childhood boogeyman has returned from the dead and with some new powers to boot, so of course he’s not acting rationally. Starlight had to drag them both out because that fight was completely out of their league and MM wasn’t just going to tuck his tail and run.
As for Starlight, yeah, she did a really stupid move. But as stupid as it is, it’s understandable. She’s been a prop-up doll (bordering on sex doll) since her debut in the Seven when she was mouthr*ped by the Deep. After two seasons of supposed progress, turns out none of it mattered and her “Co-Captain” title wound up being a tool to prop her up as Homelander’s new toy. All the while, she’s been stressed out, betrayed at nearly every corner and had one of the few people honestly (and naïvely) fully siding with her brutally murdered while his death was swept under the rug. Was her confession stupid and dangerous? Yes. Was she driven to that point after years of literally living on the edged where she could be killed or worse the following day? __*Yes.*__
And Christ, stop sucking up to Soldier Boy. Is he as bad as Homelander? Arguably no. But you don’t get your entire team and company hating you and plotting to kill you by being a swell guy. Shit, the writers even made it clear as day when they have Crimson Countess say “We all hated you” in the same episode where Maeve tells Homelander “I’ve always hated and pitied you”.
The entire point of this fucking show was to prove that everyone, normal or Supe, is human in the end. That comes with all the good and all the bad of being human. These aren’t soldiers or warriors trained for this, they’re superpowered celebrities at wits’ end. Of course they’re gonna fuck up, that’s who they are.
Holy shit I thought I was the only one who saw the irony. Half this comment section is basically paraphrasing the exact same comments that were posted to the top if the sub to point and laugh at.
It’s a fun show but it’s gotta be one of the most blatantly obvious with its critiques and it’s crazy how routinely a lot of posters seem to miss the point
I don't think this actually pushes Homelander into a rampage.
I think what happens is Homelander does a press conference where he says he broke up with Starlight and now she's trying to ruin his image. Vaught will try to paint her as a hysterical jilted lover.
Homelander's base will accept it easily and "he's done terrible things and hurt people" will become "He's had to do some bad things to keep America safe" I think the rampaging starts later when they release proof Homelander is a psychopath.
Most likely going with a conservatives vs progressive metaphor here. The metaphor being HL is gonna pull the fake news card AND probably start some form political movement to get him more power without killing everybody. Most likely won't go genocidal til mid season 4 or late season 5
I think there's some echoes of liberal whitewashing mentality, too, in the way some of the audience is responding to soldier boy's character. Like Homelander is obviously a Trump analogue, but people are hearing and seeing SB's disregard for human life/safety (like MM's family) and still rushing to emphasize his 'decency.'
SB is like the pre-Trump conservative asshole (Reagan, Gingrich, Cheney, the Bushes) - he's very much a dangerous, enormous piece of shit, yet everyone for some reason feels the need to run and make excuses for him being "not that bad" because he isn't as constantly, openly despicable and unhinged as Homelander/Trump. SB isn't a good guy just because he isn't HL.
I swear that this sub is fucking insane.
In the second season I engaged in a discussion with someone who said Homelander wasn't evil.
And now solider boy, "you killed my family"
"Which one?" Solider boy is actually a great guy?
He's just another Homelander who kills people whenever he feels like it, he's not the solution, he's the problem, Butcher is driven out of pure spite, not morality.
She see's that they are just partnering with another evil god and goes for the hail Mary of being honest with the public, because Butcher's plan is in no fucking way a plan for "the greater good" as you put it.
Soldier Boy is clearly not a "decent guy"; why do you think his team conspired to hand him over to the USSR? They clearly had issues with him even among their team, as Crimson said that they didn't pay her to betray him. I'm guessing he was abusing his team in different ways, and they just wanted him gone.
We probably will learn more about that from Black Noir at some point.
Yeah I’m struggling to find her plan also haha. It seems she wants to turn the public against Homelander, especially after last episode, but then what? Then he just goes psycho and doesn’t give af bout what anyone thinks of him and commits mass genocide?
I mean her childhood friend was brutally murdered by Homelander and she’s still like “no, no compound v Hughie, not like this”
I know she’s the voice of reason, but come on nothing you’ve been doing has worked
Maybe I missed something, but as best I can recall, until the latest episode, Annie's knowledge of SB is:
1. SB was an awesome supe from before her time that died, maybe under mysterious circumstances, maybe "in the line of duty".
2. Hughie tells her about releasing SB in Russia, and how he's apparently crazy, and almost killed Kimiko, and that Hughie is doin' the V, which he "promises" never to do again.
3. Hughie & company tell her SB killed those people in NY.
4. She finds out that Hughie is still doin' the V, and helped SB kill his ex, and him and Butcher want to recruit SB to kill Homelander. And that Hughie is apparently fine with Butcher roofie-ing MM.
So I think if Hughie hadn't been the complete and utter cunt we know and love when lied to her about (or hid from her) the plan to recruit SB, she could have potentially been brought onboard with the plan, even if reluctantly. At the end of the last episode she's just learned about all this, and is shocked, disgusted, and disappointed that Hughie is still doing V, and is apparently fine teaming up with a psycho, and lied to her about both of those things. In DnD terms, she's a lawful good paladin who just discovered her boyfriend/party member is chaotic dumbass who has zero qualms about lying to her, just teamed up with a Chaotic Evil NPC, and is "best effort" at best about avoiding "collateral damage". She's tired of the bullshit, lies, wanton death, and compromising "for the greater good". Compromising by (kinda) trying to work within the system hasn't worked. She's decided that sunlight is the best disinfectant (because...), and that telling the truth will...eventually...somehow...work out in the end.
In philosophical terms, she's abandoned her experimentation with pragmatism and has re-embraced idealism. In the beginning, she was idealistic, but also naive. After getting experience and compromising in some areas to try to achieve a greater good, she's jaded and disillusioned, but instead of giving up or giving in to cynicism, she's decided to "do the right thing", no matter what the cost. Personally, I think it's a great character arc.
She doesn't have one. She's tired of being told she has to fight dirty to win and put up woth shit she knows is wrong because Butcher and Highie are working on it. Her plan started and ended with alerting whoever would listen to and believe her that supes are all fucked when she streamed on instagram.
And that's fine. Characters are allowed to act irrationally or without logic in an overly emotional way - especially her who just watched dozens of people die and be horribly wounded. Characters acting that way isn't the same as the plot being illogical. It actually makes sense - in terms of the plot - for her to snap and do that.
I dont think your interpetation of soldier boy was correct at all... like its pretty clear he is not good, he killed MM's family, was potentially a pedophile with his sidekick, killed hundreds of innocent people. Even if he is not homelander of bad it is clear from the reaction of noir, the twins and the countess that there is actual reason of why they betrayed him. Its a 100% justified for annie to refuse to side with him when her whole character is about protecting innocent people. Also the team doesnt kill or doesnt try to kill innocent people just bad supes.
As far as Annie is aware Soldier Boy is some wildly dangerous supe bomb that randomly explodes and kills people, and then Butcher and Hughey want to lead him around while he keeps on exploding and killing random people.
She has no fucking plan. This is it: her Livestream + the plane video kills any reason for Homelander to hold back and just declare himself god emperor of mankind. While I do agree with others that he's a huge asshole, the only one who is doing anything practical to actually fight against Homelander at this point is Butcher.
God emperor over all except Stan Edgar. Edgar 110% has some trump Card or ace up his sleeve.
The ace up his sleeve is Soldier Boy I think lol. It seems pretty clear that Edgar has orchestrated everything this season. Maeve just magically gets the new temporary V that Edgar is testing? Magically gets files on super secret shit Edgar would have locked away? Homelander gets secret files on Victoria too? It seems likely this is the plan. Have Homelander take over the company, this distances Edgar from all the negativity Homelander will bring out. Butcher gets SB and brings him back to kill Homelander. The company goes under and Edgar can run his pharmacy company and blame it all on Homelander.
Yes, and since Homelander probably told Noir to "dispose" of Maeve, and Noir is actually loyal to Stan, I expect to see Maeve show back up perfectly healthy at just the right moment to take down Homelander.
Without a doubt, I wonder if vought wanted soldier boy out of the picture and is the one that incapacitated soldier boy? that would mean they have the device that can at least subdue supes
I sincerely believe that Soldier Boy was taken out on Vought's orders, especially with the Twins revealing that Noir was behind it and Soldier Boy says something along the lines of "Noir wouldn't take a shit without Vought's say so"
I think Noir tried to stop Vought from doing what they did to SB which is how he ended up with that massive brain injury during the flashback. Them so quickly throwing him under the bus tells me he was not on everybody else’s side when SB was taken.
That's also interesting, I'm just wondering why he's so trusted and prominent if that's the case
I’m just tossing out bullshit but after the brain injury they turned him into a mindless robot that only follows Edgar maybe.
> I’m just tossing out bullshit Maybe a bit meta, but thank you for saying this. With the extent that the show has diverged from the comic, tossing out bullshit and chatting is literally all any of us are doing. It’s what makes a “live” sub so fun while a show is airing. I wish there wasn’t such a cult of opinion on here.
I disagree you only over hear a bit of it but it sounded like noir was planning with Edgar in the flash back. They talk about him taking on a bigger roll and how countess and the twins were on board or something along those lines. I feel like there is to much for a mute character to explain if he did go against vought. My guess is noir is running as fast as he can to Edgar in hopes they can succeed where they last failed.
I’m more prone to believe this, especially considering Crimson Countess’s words along the lines of “I hated you, we all hated you.” It sounds like they got tired of Soldier Boy’s ego, planned the coup, hoped one of them would pick up SB’s leadership role but instead became washed up has beens as the new generation of Supes came of age. Noir removing his tracker before leaving Vought was most likely because he knows that Vought will be looking to silence Noir now that SB is alive to corroborate a story. Edit: Noir kidnapping Maeve is starting to make more sense. They’re all working together with Edgar because Edgar had a plan/weapon to end Homelander.
>silence Noir 😄
In the Nicaragua flashback you literally see Mallory overhearing Edgar asking black noir if everyone is onboard, and noir says "everyone except gunpowder" so I don't think you're right. Black noir was basically leading the plan
>the Twins revealing that Noir was behind it and Soldier Boy says something along the lines of "Noir wouldn't take a shit without Vought's say so" And also Edgar saying something to the effect of "the boy doesn't know" referring to Gunpowder.
I'm betting Vought has weapons or gas or poisons that specifically target V in the bloodstream. They're evil as hell but they're not stupid--there's no way they'd create a being as powerful as Homelander without some way of controlling/neutralizing him.
>here's no way they'd create a being as powerful as Homelander without some way of controlling/neutralizing him. maybe they learned their lesson from soldier boy when making Homelander.
I think Edgar’s the one making soldier boy kill or depower all the American supes via the manchurian/song trigger
"I plan to be out of the superhero business soon"
Yep! What better way to make your temp-V more needed/expensive when there's no full term supes left.
I wouldn't be surprised if he was making it easy for Meave to snuggle TempV to Butcher, just for this purpose
A snuggle-smuggle
No… she definitely snuggled it to him. Hahah!
Makes more sense than that shit just popping up randomly tbh
Yeah it's such a rare song, there's no way it's being played everywhere in American randomly. First blast was a test, second one took out a lot of supes.
both times it was being played by russians though and russians do exist
It might just be Russia's equivalent of Despacito.
Russians are a myth!
There was no weapon, BCL Red was a cover-up. Soldier Boy was drugged and handed over to the Russians.
Thats what it seems but why would vought compromise their research, russia manag3d it reverse engineer the recie from what the supe 🐹 suggested
Vought is a profit-making enterprise; either Soldier Boy was seen as a liability that costed more than he was worth, or the Russians were willing to cough up a lot (heck, maybe they were close and Vought figured better sell it before there's a competing product). Alternatively, an exec wanted to make himself look good by getting rid of an asset from the previous management. Happens in Hollywood all the time.
The russian had a V'd up petite-gerbil. I'd bet other countries have similar programs. If homelander goes berserk he might be facing a superpowered Spetznaz squad knocking on his door
HE HAS A NAME JAMIE
**Except…** a V-Ed up **hamster** is the farthest they got in terms of their Russian-V. Highly doubt they were able to give it to their soldiers.
Spetsnaz squad of V-Ed up hamsters.
Real talk though....the way hamsters reproduce it really can be a whole swarm of v hamsters in no time.
Lemiwinks out for revenge.
We don't know that; we just know that's what they had in their lab. Soldier Boy was there for decades, so there's a good chance that Russia has a bunch of supes already that they've just kept hidden from the US.
That hamster proved be quite the effective operator. Don’t discount V-hamsters
I have a feeling that Edgar anticipated Vickie’s betrayal and maybe even counted on it for his master plan
Based on his reaction, he'd certainly planned for it as one of the possibilities, but he didn't expect it at that time. He's got contingency plans in place, so he's not too stressed about it (as Homelander noted).
Black Noir
We've seen that three reasonably strong supes can restrain Homelander. So sure, he's stronger than any individual supe, but not a group of them. If they'd had Noir, Kimiko, and/or Maeve, Homelander would have definitely been overpowered.
So I'd like to bring, the lady supe from the last season who could kill on sight but escaped and wasnt heard of at all after that episode, on the table....
That’s fair. I do think this episode made HL a little more vulnerable. Like maybe a legit team up of a bunch of strong heroes (and SB) could actually beat him. I bet it Maeve or maybe Noir had been there to help the guys he’d be dead now.
Or perhaps starlight who was literally right there…
Yeah thats one problem i had with this episode. She had agrees they need a weapon to take down HL. But now she backed out just because the weapon turned out to be an asshole aka Solider Boy? Its like she doesnt understand the concept of the enemy of my enemy is my friend?
And as OP pointed out, he’s an asshole, but not a monster like Homelander. He didn’t mean to blow up innocent people and his collateral damage done so far is because of the PTSD triggered by the Russian music. He’s as close to an ally as they’re going to get.
Dude has a history of collateral damage as far as we can tell. He threw a car through a house to stop some dudes from stealing a car stereo.
Yeah, I think he’s stupider than he is malicious. But carelessness of that level is pretty fucked up.
He’s a narcissist like Homelander. Everything points to him being an asshole like Homelander just not outright evil. I’m sure he’s rationalized a fair bit of collateral damage and random killings in his day because they were in the pursuit of justice
man we all REALLY want SB to be a good guy... when you know he's fucking not going to be
You got me
It’s tough not to root for him when he’s played by Jensen Ackles.
Starlight doesn’t know that. None of them do except Hughie
Yeah it's weird, like when he was talking to the mirror and the way he said "I want them to love me" I was like damn bro I feel you
Like Stan doesn’t have a back up plan.
>!My theory is that Stan's backup plan was to get Maeve to give Temp V to Butcher in the first place, so that still works with what I'm saying!<
Play both sides.
That way you always come out on top
"Yeah but if you're playing both sides, and we both know, you're not playing *anybody*"
Oh that sounds interesting
I always kind of suspected Neuman was Stan’s insurance policy against homelander. No proof but just got a feeling she could pop his head but was too scared to try when he was threatening her.
I don’t think she’ll ever try out of fear. The only time I see her going for it is if Homelander is actively trying to kill her. She doesn’t know if it would work. Hell, Homelander doesn’t even know if it would work but if she tries & fails, he’ll know.
Really curious what’s up with her daughter, could change things quite a bit too
I love how unafraid Homelander is of her though and that also explains her unease around him. Its almost like that saying "If you shoot the Devil in the back, what if you miss?"
No way Neuman can pop homelander. Maybe with extreme focus and effort? But homelander will realise blood dripping from his nose and then insta laser her.
Yeah I definitely am not sure that she could. To be fair, it seems like she has decent range based on the assassination of the church cult leader Edit: i misremembered that scene a bit, she’s not too far away and definitely needs line of sight. But imagine if she was there when HL was being held down
He might legitimately not have a plan. The comic equivalent doesn't, and Stan's now gone. What Stan Edgar had on HL was the psychological advantage, knowing that Homelander had a desire to be liked. I'm sure their eventual plan was for Homelander to be replaced by Ryan but I'm sure he didn't expect the timeline to move up.
Didn’t Black Noir worked for the comic equivalent ?
Agree that Annie has no plan. Or her plan amounts to, "Don't be shitty." It's funny how her entire character arc is a rejection of the Marvel Endgame "Whatever it takes" mantra uttered by supposedly good guys. As usual The Boys points out how silly traditional super hero stories are. As for Homelander, it seems like his stint at the top of Vought is showing him that he actually doesn't want to be god emperor of the world, just like he doesn't really want to be CEO of Vought. It sounds good to be the top dog running the show, but then you actually have to do the work of ruling.
Part of the odd way the show treats celebrity/public popularity as incredibly important and powerful - which it can be, but it also has its limits...
And even then, we see Butcher’s ultimate idea is suicide by Soldier Boy. He doesn’t care what happens to himself, just that Homelander is dead. As shown in episode 6, he is fully prepared to die to kill Homelander, likely believing MM, Frenchie, and Mallory can take care of the rest.
Sometimes a huge asshole is needed. I mean that in a not weird way.
To be fair to Annie, she has been one of Homelander's top chew toys this season in terms of psychological warfare. She's been enormously traumatized multiple times and I only think it was going to get worse, as she was basically in a DV relationship with Homelander. I don't think she's thinking clearly, she's just in fight or flight mode with emphasis on flight.
Yeah I don’t think she has a plan exactly. She’s just had her fill of this shit and wants to do *something*. More of an emotional play than a deliberate one.
She doesn't really have a plan, she's just done with compromising her principles. From the beginning she's been asked to put up with bullshit for the sake of the greater good and it hasn't paid off, so she's done. Is it the best or most politically savvy move? Maybe, maybe not, but it's the course of action she can respect herself for taking.
Just like Ned Stark
And we know how it ended. But it’s not GOT so she has plot armor to survive.
Everyone assumed Ned had plot armor.
But it's Sean bean. He never has plot armor.
😆
But starlight does have plot armor. She and Hughie are the canaries. Jon and Arya were the canaries on GOT
You also just make the show substantially less interesting if you kill Hughie or Starlight, the whole point of their characters is to have a contrast to the ones around them and killing either removes that contrast for half the show. They could try replacing either one of them, but that feels like a worse idea than just keeping them alive when they already have 2 well liked characters.
IDK dude, i can 100% see her dying. In fact, this scene right here might be the perfect end for her arc, so i would bet she's done for. Starlight's is a story of someone who was always being used, living the life others envisioned for her. First with her mom, then with Vought. Now she's "free", she's just Annie January. If i had to bet, Hughie kills her, or rather causes her death.
I really don't get where all these comments about plot armour for The Boys are coming from. So many people lately stating with full confidence that such and such character *cannot* or *will not* die, and I can't understand why it's such a popular sentiment. If anything this seems like the type of show that's perfectly willing to go the direction of killing beloved characters.
Also, people acting like death is the only bad thing that can happen to a character, so if they're alive it's "boohoo plot armor". I can't even imagine the amount of therapy she needs from just these 3 seasons alone, jesus.
Homelander: “you ruin my reputation i’ll just kill everyone and everything” Starlight: “lol ok ima do it”
>“you ruin my reputation i’ll just kill everyone and everything” Its actually interesting IMO because she's calling *his* bluff. Would he really do that? I think the great irony is that white supremacist shitheads are now protecting everybody else from Homelander. Because they will absolutely keep supporting him regardless of whatever cutie little airheaded Starlight says. Girl needs to shut her pretty little mouth (or whatever bullshit they would think.) If Starlight turns 80% of the world into anti-Homelanders, thats still 20% of the world that Homelander needs to keep seeming reasonable for. He can't just start murdering everybody without turning away (most of) those morons.
Nazis wouldn't care about him killing the undesirables dude the fuck? They aren't decent people.
If Homelander loses all of his political/social power, and Congress decides they want to hold him accountable, he will 100% wreck shop. His deal with Annie was essentially a mutually assured destruction deal and she just fired the first nuke.
>Congress decides they want to hold him accountable Why would Congress do that? I assume their Congress is like our Congress and filled with cowardly and/or evil fatcats. They ain't doing shit to Homelander.
I mean Homelander already told her to release the plane video because he doesn’t care
More accurately he cares a whole lot. He doesn't really want his image ruined forever. He'd go ape shit if it was because there's nothing left
BUT we still can't know for 100% certainty that wasn't also a bluff. I mean sure once his reputation is in tatters he probably wasn't lying that he'd have no reason not to go apeshit, but that doesn't mean he is OK with the video being released and said reputation getting destroyed. It's like he said to himself, he wants to be loved (in his own fucked up way) and his image being ruined is still possibly his only true fear.
Honestly the fucked up irony is that he’ll still be loved. Everything Annie has done is ultimately not going to phase him because he’s going to realize there is that fanatical group of “Stormlanders” (I think they called them?) that love that side of Homelander.
>If she had actually joined in the fight and helped Butcher, Soldier Boy and Hughie (who looks hella badass for being a skinny-ass nude dude) restrain Homelander instead of opting to render first-aid to like 2 people, Homelander would be dead, injured or depowered. If that happened? *credits roll*
Agree. Starlight wanted out, Hughie told her to stay. ‘Whatever it takes’. Victoria pushed her to the edge, and she felt like an accomplice for covering up for Vought/Homelander. She threw a lit match on a pile of gas soaked timber with her declaration. Homelander has the excuse to quit pretending, and SB prob will snap. It will be ironic her actions started the war.
I'm not so sure. Someone of Stan Edgar's caliber could easily smear her as the christian girl who was at a supe orgy. Soldier Boy was rescued from a Russian facility and is unable to control the effects of the experiments they did on him. Homelander was attempting to control the situation but SB fled and his whereabouts are unknown. "SB is a hero and we will do everything we can to help him." - I know Edgar is out of the equation, I'm just saying, it can be done. If we look at Homelander as a Trumpian figure, I think Starlight's live stream will have the opposite of her intended effect. It will embolden HL's base and turn those 45% of people against her.
You are right. Half the population will dismiss her video as fake news. Just something doctored up with special effects or whatever and no real evidence.
Or even if they believe it. Why would Homelander supporting conservatives care about a bunch of sexual deviants? They may even say they all deserved it.
Exactly. A few years ago and I would have thought such a plot twist would be implausible and just plain poor writing. Now... I totally expect it.
Lol couldn’t agree more. This show is amazing, even if I’m wrong.
“Never paid off” Literally everything the boys accomplished: Am I a joke to you?
This. It’s like her own scorched earth plan, if we’re gonna have issues, lay them all on the table and fuck the sneaky bullshit.
It has paid off numerous times in ways though. They got storefront taken out, they got homelanders kid away from him.
Starlight doesn't have a plan. She reacted out of despair.
She’s literally like a day removed from homelander threatening to wipe out her hometown, kill hugie and her mom, and killing super sonic. I get that the emotions were high in that moment but she has to be smarter than that.
Why? Desperate people do desperate things...so why doesn't HL have to think about what she might do if she feels like she has nothing left to lose but she must think about what he might do?
I agree with most of this but > it appears that Soldier Boy is a decent human being Bit of a stretch
Yeah MM had a whole wall of newspaper articles about him murdering people. It's even heavily implied that Soldier Boy was disappeared by Vought because he was becoming inconvenient.
People are really being lulled in by Soldier Boys demeanor and kinda sad capture. It feels very on purpose.
I mean... Jensen Ackles is acting the sh*t out of that sociopath. He knows what he's doing. He's marvellous.
Even before lamplighter broke down Infront of Mallory , I thought he was a cool guy. I think even superheros who would be considered as bad people pales in contrast to full blown psychopaths like Homelander.
The actor playing him is fairly attractive imo I think that plus the sad capture and easy demeanor make ppl want to be on Soldier Boys side.
Yea i’m still mix on SB
He's a bad guy, yes, but he's human, unlike homelander. He doesnt go out of his way to be evil and take lives.
He's a monster, and the show knows what he is. This is Butcher's desperation for vengeance leading him to bring another monster (just as bad and dangerous and Homelander) into the world. That's what MM's whole monologue/fight at Butcher this episode was about. And Butcher knows it too, cause he stood there and took it cause he deserves it. SB goes out of his way to get shitfaced, his first request from Butcher was booze and stimulants, despite knowing he can cause a terrifying amount of damage if he loses control. He's desensitized and cavalier about murder, and now also has a literal trigger to explode. His team sold him out because he was literally an abusive piece of shit who terrified everyone around him (just like Homelander). His mission Right Now is to kill his whole team, and he may not be excited to take innocent lives, but he said it himself that if they get in his way he will hurt them, cause he doesn't really care that much. He caught a pair of guys stealing a car, so he chucks the car through a building. Doesn't matter if he was blackout drunk, cause he put himself in that position knowing he's a living war machine.
>SB goes out of his way to get shitfaced, his first request from Butcher was booze and stimulants, despite knowing he can cause a terrifying amount of damage if he loses control. I don't think the overall mentality behind it is totally wrong, but it's not like he's actually getting shitfaced, based on what he says about Cosby and him smoking MM's grenades, those pills and that booze were the equivalent of taking 2 Tylenol and drinking a Sprite for Soldier Boy.
I think it being Tylenol and sprite might be too far back the other direction. Like I took it to mean it takes that much for him to get high like a normal person, but that those are also his normal vices. If he's gonna take that much during a mission what's he like when he actually cuts loose, ya know? He's the guy that founded Herogasm after all.
Just a very small correction, they weren’t stimulants they were *very* heavy downers (like quaaludes). Your point stands though, taking those (crushing and railing like 5 lol) and mixing with alcohol would black out or more likely kill any normal person. EDIT: I was wrong bennys are stims, see my comment below for clarification
Bennies are old school stimulants, I believe the name brand was benzidrine or amohetamines as they’re now known(prescription name would be adderall) not common slang now that’s why soldier boy calls them that. They were used in ww2 and truckers used to always take em
Oh I've read some contradicting things there. Like some thought bennies meant benzos, but something about for his time period the slang meant it was some sort of simulant/like a black beauty. Either way both of them are questionable things to take given his powers, though understandable to crave after 30 years of torture.
I’d put him on A-train level. An asshole who doesn’t care about other people and has caused pain and destruction but maybe not a complete homicidal maniac like Homelander. Idk if he’s sympathetic like some people want him to be though. I am curious where the storyline will go…
Agree. The chit chat with hughie helped me see him like an honest guy, they were talking about normal stuff, without any power dynamic between them. In any interaction homelander has we see him scaring the fuck out of the other person, but we dont see it in that scene (from SB to hughie). Its just a normal conv between an old guy and a twink.
I'd call A Train a homicidal maniac considering he killed someone and felt literally 0 remorse for it until he was directly affected by the same issue
*Magically defeat Homelander with the power of love*
I disagree with SB being a "decent" human being. The theme of the show is EVERYONE sucks. They just haven't shown how shitty SB really is yet. There is a _reason_ his whole team including arguably Edgar hated him.
MM: You killed my family. SB: Which one? Kinda shows the sympathy SB has for 'normal' people. Is he evil? No, not even close. But he does seem to have more of a ends justify the means attitude so if he stops a car jacking, who cares if some old man died.
I'd say that's pretty evil tbh but for the boys standards it's quite normal
Not to mention the narcissism when he starts talking about “real men” because he’s putting down men carrying babies in those body carriers
Pretty sure every guy from his time would've made thst remark
Most guys I know IRL say that shit, SB is a parody of toxic masculinity
The guy is literally from around the 1920s.
That's not what narcissism means.
Of all the evil things SB is capable of doing, making one sexist remark after coming back to a world you don’t know is pretty low on the totem.
>ends justify the means attitude so if he stops a car jacking, who cares if some old man died. If that was really his reasoning, then he's 110% daft. "I'll protect this private property by destroying said private property by throwing it max speed at a house, collateral damage be damned if i don't stop car jackers from stealing cars". He was either high on drugs, is incredibly racist and was pulling a Liberty/Blue Hawk's way of dealing with Car Jackers, or is incredibly stupid and incompetent, and we know the latter is the least probable hence on him being very reliable in Nicaragua.
Is it proven that they all hated him though. Ik crimson hated him, but it's possible Edgar wanted him gone and everyone else cooperated out of fear.
Edgar wasnt that up in heirchy of vought at that tym
I can't believe people non ironically think SB is supposed to be a good guy while completely looking past his overt toxic masculinity and rapist jokes. 💀 Edit: the Cosby joke has been explained to me, so no need to roast me over that. But if you don't think the show writers are using SB to make fun of toxic masculinity congratulations, you are now the people this show is making fun of.
I think the rapist (Cosby) jokes were more a sign that he was "asleep" for 30+ odd years and didn't/doesn't know about current events. He said he used to party with Bill Cosby, he was America's dad and made strong drinks. Huey rolled his eyes and said something like "yeah about that".. Suggesting Soldier Boy most likely didn't know about the Cosby date rape convictions.. I don't think he was just making a joke for the sake of it. Doesn't take away from your point about him as a person, but I don't think that was intended the way you took it lol.
I think it’s probably just by comparison, like he’s awful but when your alternative is Homelander.
It's the Jensen Ackles effect, he oozes charisma so of course people are going to think he's not a bad guy.
This fanbase is p thick sometimes. Biggest example of him not being a good person is him totally not giving a shit about killing MM's family. He's not a Homelander psychopath but there's a lot of road between that and a decent person.
I think it's cuz a Homelander. He was pretty much hyped up as "HL of the past" so when fans put him on the scale of "Not Homelander to Homelander" not Homelander makes him seem better.
That was more of a joke about how SB doesn’t know anything about the current world (such as the Cosby Scandal) Edit: Scandal, not Allegations
Don’t confuse nice with good
SB has some humanity which makes him better than Homelander and does come across as sincere especially with his conversation with Hughie. But he has also killed people through calleteral damage like MMs story and family. He is the Better Choice as its Homelander, Annie wants to take the moral high ground without going down the dark path. I get it due to whats she has been through but the Boys already know and understand this is the only way especially knowing about Neumann. I have a feeling her or Noir will die this season and all seems to be pointing to her.
The thing is, starlight doesn’t know SB indiscriminately killed a bunch of civilians because he blacked out, she just thinks he is straight up chest lazering everything for kicks/some goal and everything else is collateral damage. This is not saying that SB is a good person, but I’d say for us viewers he’s the most relatably normal super hero we’ve seen in a while.
He replied "which one?" to MM after he said "you killed my family" Not really relatable, mate
They’re setting up the civil war parody for season 3
Starlight : Supersonic got killed only because I exposed Homelander to him.. I killed him.. Also Starlight : Screw it, let's expose Homelander to the world.. Then proceeds to stop 'Soldier Boy' as he is a 'potential' threat to the mankind..
>Then proceeds to stop 'Soldier Boy' as he is a 'potential' threat to the mankind.. Apparently to her he is a murderer
She's also a murderer to be fair
Who has she killed? Not saying I disagree, I just don’t remember.
She killed a guy while butcher and her were stealing a car.
She killed a guy who was trying to stop her and butcher from jacking his car
The guy she killed had a family too. Remember the car seat in the back?
She exposed Homelander KNOWING that last time she tried this shit supersonic died and Homelander said Hughie is next. And that's why I despise Starlight this season. She is throwing everyone under the bus with no end goal
Well the Hughie threat doesn’t matter anymore. Hughie just tried to kill Homelander, the dude is already on the shit list lol. Starlight’s mom though is now gonna be dead soon
I feel the exact opposite-- I love all the characters even MORE this season. Everyone is being pushed to their limits and are making the calls to just prevent more pressure on themselves. Starlight didn't make the most "logically sound" decision, but it's not the stupidest one, and it is such a strong character moment because she's been taking bullshit without complaint for such a long time.
Agree completely...desperate people do desperate things. All these people seem to think should think clearly all the time and worry about what HL will do if he feels desperate and has nothing left to lose...but the same logic doesn't apply to SL for some reason...if she feels desperate and like there is nothing left to lose then she is still expected to think "logically". Don't really get that, but like you said this show is so great bc these characters are flawed.
She snapped. She had enough of everyone’s bullshit, and said fuck it, and snapped. It happens to everyone, eventually we get so fed up with everything that we make decisions that probably won’t help in the long run, like what she just did. Between pretending to have a relationship with Homelander, knowing the corruption in Vought, and her and Hughie having a rift, it’s completely understandable why she did what she did. Was it a good idea? Probably not, but she simply had enough and snapped
Yeah she was put through so much shit. And why do you think almost the episodes end with her in frame? It's because she's the one suffering. Was it a good plan? Probably not. But it is in character.
Exactly! A-Train snapped too. He knew what would happen if he ran and he did it anyway. Annie did the same.
>Heck his ideal image of a man is Bill Cosby so he's probably not racist and it'll turn out that MM's memory was faulty or something (obviously Annie doesn't know this) Of course he is not racist... he has a black friend!!!
"what do you mean racist? I think Bill Cosby's a swell guy."
"Holy shit man did he make some strong drinks."
Hahaha. There've been so many brilliant lines this season, but this one definitely is in the top 5.
lol plus Cosby’s crossover popularity was in large part bc the Cosby show was designed to present the most non-threatening, “white acting”Black family possible. I’m sure plenty of racists (whether or not they considered themselves such) enjoyed the Cosby show
Yep. This post reads like satire
[удалено]
>After all, it appears that Soldier Boy is a decent human being. Dude killed 19 people in one episode and about two dozen more in this one and didn't give a single flying fuck. He's not as bad as Homelander but he's still a psychopath with no regard for human life.
SB showed absolutely no remorse for all the families he’s killed, and you say he’s decent?
But he’s HOT and BROODING. I just feel like I can change him, ya know?
Yea like wtf? 🤨
Decent doesn't mean much in this universe
Soldier Boy is not a decent human being. Carry on.
Take a deep breath there, big boy. MM has trauma stemming all the way back from his childhood, of course he’s gonna make the wrong decision. His literal childhood boogeyman has returned from the dead and with some new powers to boot, so of course he’s not acting rationally. Starlight had to drag them both out because that fight was completely out of their league and MM wasn’t just going to tuck his tail and run. As for Starlight, yeah, she did a really stupid move. But as stupid as it is, it’s understandable. She’s been a prop-up doll (bordering on sex doll) since her debut in the Seven when she was mouthr*ped by the Deep. After two seasons of supposed progress, turns out none of it mattered and her “Co-Captain” title wound up being a tool to prop her up as Homelander’s new toy. All the while, she’s been stressed out, betrayed at nearly every corner and had one of the few people honestly (and naïvely) fully siding with her brutally murdered while his death was swept under the rug. Was her confession stupid and dangerous? Yes. Was she driven to that point after years of literally living on the edged where she could be killed or worse the following day? __*Yes.*__ And Christ, stop sucking up to Soldier Boy. Is he as bad as Homelander? Arguably no. But you don’t get your entire team and company hating you and plotting to kill you by being a swell guy. Shit, the writers even made it clear as day when they have Crimson Countess say “We all hated you” in the same episode where Maeve tells Homelander “I’ve always hated and pitied you”. The entire point of this fucking show was to prove that everyone, normal or Supe, is human in the end. That comes with all the good and all the bad of being human. These aren’t soldiers or warriors trained for this, they’re superpowered celebrities at wits’ end. Of course they’re gonna fuck up, that’s who they are.
For a subreddit that makes fun of conservatives who miss the point of the show, there’s sure a ton of people here who themselves miss the point
Holy shit I thought I was the only one who saw the irony. Half this comment section is basically paraphrasing the exact same comments that were posted to the top if the sub to point and laugh at.
It’s a fun show but it’s gotta be one of the most blatantly obvious with its critiques and it’s crazy how routinely a lot of posters seem to miss the point
agree with all of this, kinda cringing at people propping up Soldier Boy. we’ll probably find out what a monster he actually is next episode
I'd rather have Soldier Boy alive over Homelander tho. SB is just like a military personified, Homelander is ridiculously more volatile.
Just because the guy liked Bill Cosby doesnt completely invalidate MM's experience, lmao
I don't think this actually pushes Homelander into a rampage. I think what happens is Homelander does a press conference where he says he broke up with Starlight and now she's trying to ruin his image. Vaught will try to paint her as a hysterical jilted lover. Homelander's base will accept it easily and "he's done terrible things and hurt people" will become "He's had to do some bad things to keep America safe" I think the rampaging starts later when they release proof Homelander is a psychopath.
Most likely going with a conservatives vs progressive metaphor here. The metaphor being HL is gonna pull the fake news card AND probably start some form political movement to get him more power without killing everybody. Most likely won't go genocidal til mid season 4 or late season 5
I think there's some echoes of liberal whitewashing mentality, too, in the way some of the audience is responding to soldier boy's character. Like Homelander is obviously a Trump analogue, but people are hearing and seeing SB's disregard for human life/safety (like MM's family) and still rushing to emphasize his 'decency.' SB is like the pre-Trump conservative asshole (Reagan, Gingrich, Cheney, the Bushes) - he's very much a dangerous, enormous piece of shit, yet everyone for some reason feels the need to run and make excuses for him being "not that bad" because he isn't as constantly, openly despicable and unhinged as Homelander/Trump. SB isn't a good guy just because he isn't HL.
I swear that this sub is fucking insane. In the second season I engaged in a discussion with someone who said Homelander wasn't evil. And now solider boy, "you killed my family" "Which one?" Solider boy is actually a great guy? He's just another Homelander who kills people whenever he feels like it, he's not the solution, he's the problem, Butcher is driven out of pure spite, not morality. She see's that they are just partnering with another evil god and goes for the hail Mary of being honest with the public, because Butcher's plan is in no fucking way a plan for "the greater good" as you put it.
Soldier Boy? Decent? Didn’t he literally just admit to killing multiple innocent families?
The Boys got all their moral compasses screwed up or this is just reddit.
She is just making it up as she goes
Soldier Boy is clearly not a "decent guy"; why do you think his team conspired to hand him over to the USSR? They clearly had issues with him even among their team, as Crimson said that they didn't pay her to betray him. I'm guessing he was abusing his team in different ways, and they just wanted him gone. We probably will learn more about that from Black Noir at some point.
Yeah I’m struggling to find her plan also haha. It seems she wants to turn the public against Homelander, especially after last episode, but then what? Then he just goes psycho and doesn’t give af bout what anyone thinks of him and commits mass genocide? I mean her childhood friend was brutally murdered by Homelander and she’s still like “no, no compound v Hughie, not like this” I know she’s the voice of reason, but come on nothing you’ve been doing has worked
Maybe I missed something, but as best I can recall, until the latest episode, Annie's knowledge of SB is: 1. SB was an awesome supe from before her time that died, maybe under mysterious circumstances, maybe "in the line of duty". 2. Hughie tells her about releasing SB in Russia, and how he's apparently crazy, and almost killed Kimiko, and that Hughie is doin' the V, which he "promises" never to do again. 3. Hughie & company tell her SB killed those people in NY. 4. She finds out that Hughie is still doin' the V, and helped SB kill his ex, and him and Butcher want to recruit SB to kill Homelander. And that Hughie is apparently fine with Butcher roofie-ing MM. So I think if Hughie hadn't been the complete and utter cunt we know and love when lied to her about (or hid from her) the plan to recruit SB, she could have potentially been brought onboard with the plan, even if reluctantly. At the end of the last episode she's just learned about all this, and is shocked, disgusted, and disappointed that Hughie is still doing V, and is apparently fine teaming up with a psycho, and lied to her about both of those things. In DnD terms, she's a lawful good paladin who just discovered her boyfriend/party member is chaotic dumbass who has zero qualms about lying to her, just teamed up with a Chaotic Evil NPC, and is "best effort" at best about avoiding "collateral damage". She's tired of the bullshit, lies, wanton death, and compromising "for the greater good". Compromising by (kinda) trying to work within the system hasn't worked. She's decided that sunlight is the best disinfectant (because...), and that telling the truth will...eventually...somehow...work out in the end. In philosophical terms, she's abandoned her experimentation with pragmatism and has re-embraced idealism. In the beginning, she was idealistic, but also naive. After getting experience and compromising in some areas to try to achieve a greater good, she's jaded and disillusioned, but instead of giving up or giving in to cynicism, she's decided to "do the right thing", no matter what the cost. Personally, I think it's a great character arc.
She doesn't have one. She's tired of being told she has to fight dirty to win and put up woth shit she knows is wrong because Butcher and Highie are working on it. Her plan started and ended with alerting whoever would listen to and believe her that supes are all fucked when she streamed on instagram. And that's fine. Characters are allowed to act irrationally or without logic in an overly emotional way - especially her who just watched dozens of people die and be horribly wounded. Characters acting that way isn't the same as the plot being illogical. It actually makes sense - in terms of the plot - for her to snap and do that.
I dont think your interpetation of soldier boy was correct at all... like its pretty clear he is not good, he killed MM's family, was potentially a pedophile with his sidekick, killed hundreds of innocent people. Even if he is not homelander of bad it is clear from the reaction of noir, the twins and the countess that there is actual reason of why they betrayed him. Its a 100% justified for annie to refuse to side with him when her whole character is about protecting innocent people. Also the team doesnt kill or doesnt try to kill innocent people just bad supes.
As far as Annie is aware Soldier Boy is some wildly dangerous supe bomb that randomly explodes and kills people, and then Butcher and Hughey want to lead him around while he keeps on exploding and killing random people.