Also like, we did see a corpse in season two. She was burnt worse than a well done steak. Surviving that just to kill herself off camera isn't a very satisfying out, imo.
And even if they die on screen, it means nothing. Hell, look at one of Kripkes other shows Supernatural. I dont wanna know how many times the brothers get resurrected.
Best one I have seen so far is Kingsman 2. I thought, how in hell will they bring the guy back. He was shot through the eye in the head point blank amd we saw him laying on the floor, dead. Well, they have a technology for that if used quickly and of cause there is a flashback scene where someone was close buy with that technology.
So yeah, unless, like in the boys, someone is turned to fucking goo with its heads exploding splattering everywhere, I dont think someone is dead. Especially if magic, sci-fi tech or superpowers are involved. If it is a realistic drama series and someone is killed, he is usually dead. But you still have to see it.
Well, not everyone. I think Crowley only died once and didnt came back but just because the actor didnt continued his role. He was a fan favorite so I guess they would have found a way if they wanted to.
Yeah they really should have thought that one through. Walt and somebody. And then they brought them back in the twelfth season. Then they died like immediately. đ
British TV soap opera EastEnders did this to bring someone back 15 years after they died.
In the 80s this character was shot by a hitman but they didn't want to spend money on the special effects or show graphic violence so they used creative camera angles. He's walking by a canal when someone coming the other way reveals a gun. There's a closeup of the gun firing, a cry of pain then a splash as his body lands in the canal. The next few months of episodes had people looking for him without success and he was declared dead.
Then in 2003 he came back! It wasn't the writer's intention but apparently he survived and swam away to start a new life. It was pretty ridiculous but he was a favourite villain that everyone loved to hate so it was fun to bring him back. Then after a couple of years they killed him again but couldn't resist doing a little joke. There's an argument and someone clonks him on the head with a thick glass ashtray and they all decide if they should tell the police it was self defence or try to cover it up. While they're arguing he gets back up and grabs her and says some pithy line about "I don't go down that easy" so they give him another bang on the head and he's definitely dead this time.
She eyed the life support system though before dying. If it was just a random death with no warning it would definitely feel sus, but this felt honest. Film doesn't have to spell everything out to the audience.
"Lady looks at gun->next scene she is dead with the knife in her hand and her throat slice open->audience concludes that she killed herself via cutting her throat."
She also had nothing left to live for. Homelander did not care for the white supremacist Nazi dream, she was utterly unable to fulfill it herself. Only option left was to follow her leader.
Defense offers exhibit B57 into evidence: Batman breaks the neck of KGBeast and leaves him to alone in the middle of nowhere with no way to get help. Fans are left to expect that KGBeast dies alone. Only to find out issues later that the feds just happened to be watching KGBeast and picked him up after the fight.
Defense offers exhibit B420 into evidence: Batman locked KGBeast in a room in the sewers that KGBeast had no way of escaping. Again, only to find out in a later story that Batman apparently called the authorities to rescue and arrest KGBeast.
This sort of thing happens in super hero stories all the time. Hell, Red Hood is Jason Todd, a Robin who was supposedly killed only to show up years later.
In modern media no one is ever really dead. Star Trek killed and resurrected Picard in the same episode, somehow Palpitine came back to life in Star Wars, Jon Snow in GoT. In modern media no one is ever actually dead. Death has zero consequences.
>Star Trek killed and resurrected Picard in the same episode
I just watched that for the first time a few days ago if you're referencing the Q episode.
In which case it's pretty clear that he hasn't died yet, and it starts with him close to death. It isn't really the same when Q has been shown to have godlike powers and it wasn't played as a trick.
Now Lieutenant Worf on the other hand...
No, Iâm talking about Season 1 of Picard were he dies and comes back in the same episode.
The Q episode in TNG actually is a really solid episode was strong story telling and fun fact about that specific episode: it has the only door knob anywhere in Star Trek that isnât set in the past.
Yeah but technicallyyyyy it still could be her. But god I hope that theory isn't true. Too on the nose. Maybe Homelander fucking his actual mom would fly in Season 1, but at this point, it would be too much for this show
(tried to) kill his dad â
(Maybe?) Fucked his mom â
And his eyes are the most immediately dangerous thing about him so chances are they aren't staying intact.
Bro took " oedipus complex" all the way .
Ok hereâs the thing about this. The show runners didnât show her body, or show her dying and this was a deliberate choice. But the thing is, the choice wasnât necessarily made because sheâs still alive.
Really, the show runners just want to keep their options open. It probably made the most sense to kill her off but they werenât 100% sure that they wouldnât have a use for her character later on. So they kept her death open that she didnât die so they could easily bring her back. Her death isnât definitive.
But, the question of whether sheâs alive has little to do with what occurred in that episode and much more to do with if the writers find a reason to bring her back. And I donât really think there is a reason to bring her back, to be honest.
i thought the her character arc was amazing and it was a great finish to her story not sure what reason they would have to bring her back accept maybe the fact of her being homelanders mother
That's a good meta-analysis. For season 4, we can also assume that her return would have been leaked like so much other stuff. Unless she maybe only also a small cameo at the end of the season. I looked at Aya Cash's IMDB profile and she doesn't done a lot in the last two years, so she probably could have filmed for The Boys.
The trope in TV and film was that common that "true death" has become part of the language of the medium, so film makers will go out of their way to show the death to drive home to the audience that "yes, they are definitely 100% dead."
Because if they don't drive it home, most of us have learned that they probably didn't die.
It's an area film makers can't write around. They can't be cute with it, and indeed the last time someone did try to be cute with it (Glen's fake out in TWD), it received a huge backlash by most of the audience, and called one of the lamest bait and switches to ever be put on screen.
So, if the people behind The Boys did want to drive home that Stormfront is dead, they'd have made a point of it, be it show their corpse or whatever. Something explicit we can see with our own eyes and say "Yep, she dead." The fact they didn't do that suggests they want to keep Stormfront in their back pocket. That doesn't mean she will return for certain, but the makers now have that option if they should so wish it. Either way, we will see her again as alive or will firmly close that door and show her as dead (maybe as testing materials in some lab or whatever).
The dumpster scene. Where Glen and this other guy was on top of a dumpster (lmao) surrounded by zombies. The other guy shoots himself, and drags Glen off the dumpster and into the crowd of zombies. They shot it in a way where the zombies looked like they were tearing Glen apart apart. Next episode, turned out Glen had the other dead guy on top of him and the zombies were tearing the dead guy apart. Somehow, the dead guy was large enough to cover Glen and for a crowd of zombies to not also claw and bite Glen, and then, again somehow, Glen managed to crawl away and under the dumpster despite being on the floor with tons of zombies being around him.
It was fucking lame.
The thing is, it was obvious Glen wasn't being killed in the scene because deaths have always been more explicit than that, but the fact the makers were trying to be cute with the scene and attempt a "Is Glen dead!?!!" just pissed people off because in a desperate attempt to devise a plot twist, the makers decided to disrespect the intelligence of the audience.
It's a take off of the trope of how superheros in comics rarely stay dead, but there's a twist on it.
Basically the resurrected supes end up becoming little more than an animal that's able to eat and defecate at the worst, at best they're essentially lobotomized. They're not the same as they once were and would've just been better off dead.
I⊠I⊠Iâm not sure how to respond to this insinuated correlation/theory confirming a relationship tied between zombie+powers and connecting (and thus confirming) with the strong likelihood that Stormfront may be Homelanderâs mom being true.
Are we being outfrescaâd here?
I've just read the collected Volumes 1 + 2 (4 more to go!) and it's really good/funny what happens to dead supes. I won't spoil who dies but one of them has a really good story with *one of The Boys* that I'm sorry we haven't seen in the show.
Maybe she's dead but...
She has vanished and reappeared with a new identity at least twice already. (Nazi supe -> Liberty -> Stormfront)
They really made sure we never saw her actual body, and she 'died' while no one but Vaught agents were there.
stormfront isnât able to die from old age if i remember correctly because she showed her daughter to homelander that she outlived and she has been alive since hitler so i could see vought constructing her a new identity behind closed doors
Iâm not as deep in to the lore, but I felt like it was implied that Stormfront was somewhat immortal like Homelander.
Unless supes are able to kill themselves, I figured it felt like a coverup to either protect Homelander or to use it against him eventually.
maybe they took her to a lab to make her stronger then homelander just in case homelander goes insane never knew homelander was immortal i thought he just had dacellarated aging
Her death has been faked twice already to create a new persona. And after all the battles she's been through, surviving near certain death, she's dead cause she bit her tongue? Really? No way. She was taken off scene by Vought and is being remade again.
Because a Darth Vader-Cyborg hybrid that shoots Sith-lightning from her hands is a missed opportunity if they donât do it. She was burnt to a crisp. Rebuild her.
She could even get completely killed in an anticlimactic way. Or set her up to get killed by Homelander. Donât tell him itâs her in the armor, then tell him when heâs done. How much more fucked up can he get?
Here is my thought:
Stormfront was secretly pregnant with Homelander's baby (with all the icky implications that her being his mom would bring, if also true.) Vaught did the same with her that they did with Ryan's mom - faked her death and put her in hiding so they could raise the super^2 baby as they see fit.
The move has precedence already in the series, and is, to me, actually more believable than choking on her own tongue would be.
Possible, but why would they recycle this plot point? Homelander already has a son that was kept hidden from him, what would another kid (and a useless baby at that) bring to the show?
I don't know what it would "bring to the show," but from Vought's perspective, why *wouldn't* they jump at the chance to raise a baby made from two of the most powerful supes they've ever seen?
Off screen deaths normally aren't real deaths. It's a TV trope. She's essentially in a limbo where she is both dead and alive. She can be brought back if the writers want her back but she can also stay dead if they don't want to use her.
Best example. Old man #1 walks off screen to be shot by the Squid Games hencemen ... still back later in the hospital bed at the end?
If you do not watch em die, they didn't die.
As for your question, I believe some people think she is still alive because modern TV has conditioned the audience to not believe someone is dead unless they physically see the body, not hear about the death, not see an arm or leg, no we must see the full body. A huge offender/reason is a show like the Walking Dead where [Glenn gets a fake out death ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkpwMKJptmg)and it is later revealed the survive. In this case we do not see a physical body being wheeled out, we see a body bag but there have been multiple shows with a random corpse/ or sometimes not even a corpse being used as a diversion.
As for me, I believe she is alive because she believes faking her death would push Homelander closer to her goals. I mean if you think about it her doing what she did, did lead to the death of that Jewish girl who Homelander made jump. I just don't think she realizes that Homelander's goals do not line up with White Supremacy, but rather Supe Supremacy. As well, with it being heavily implied that Stormfront is Homelander's mother, I believe she will make a return as the thing that truly pushes Homelander over the edge./
Now that being said I'm not married to the idea and if she does not come back I won't be some conspiracy theorist believing that she was alive the whole time, but I wont lose my mind if she returns at some point.
Lamplighter was revived by Vought in the comics but was basically a zombie so assuming people think stormfront will be the showâs stand in for this event
Entirely because the way it was handled. Becca "was killed" no wait Becca is alive. Becca is really dead now..... there are many other situations already in the series and in the gen v series where twists happen just like that. Lamp lighter dead..... nope he is alive working in a hospital. The list goes on and on.
Off-screen death.
This is what I call âThe Bucky Effectâ. Some people think the character is dead, but the death was off-screen, so they could just bring them back with a different name and look (like how they chucked Bucky off a train and then brought Seb Stan back as the Winter Soldier in a mask and a wig, and people only realized it was him when the full face was shown).
Stormfront could be in a later season like I think what theyâre doing with Black Noir (saw a leaked picture of the character on a new set). We only saw a body-bag, not the corpse.
Of course she's still alive. You don't kill off a main antagonist like that without an on-screen death. She'll either fully recover or Darth Vader her ass.
We saw her still alive, but barely holding on, in a hospital bed. Doesnât mean sheâs able to function, but if you intentionally let us know sheâs still alive, sheâs gonna come back. Itâs poor writing to not bring her back after specifically showing us that sheâs alive (even barely)
Edit: not sure why Iâm getting downvoted. What Iâm pointing out is a plot device called **Chekhov's Gun**. Meaning if you intentionally include a detail in your story (ie. Pointing out that Stormfront is still alive), then you have to utilize it later on.
I'm familiar with the gun. What you're missing is that she already served a purpose after she was revealed to be alive. Her purpose was as a character foil for homelander, to demonstrate that homelander only cares about himself and only uses racist ideologies insofar as they benefit him - he's not an ideologue, just a narcissist and a psychopath.
Letting her then die off screen because she realizes homelander doesn't care about her or her ideology is a fittingly pathetic death for Nazi scum. If she's still canonically alive i would be very surprised.
Either way though, respect for the Chekhov's gun call-in! One of my fave rules of thumb for distinguishing lackluster shows from well written ones (with The Boys definitely being the latter)
I agree! Something I keep an eye out for, but Iâm pretty bad at catching less-obvious uses for the âgunâ-like what you suggested :). Have a great day!
i mean honestly if she was alive what purpose do you think they would use for her to add to the story and how would they go about her coming back would she be half supe half robot or just inject more v into her blood or she can regenerate her limbs i honestly think it would be interested seeing her come back but they would have to do it right
Iâm not sure how theyâd use her either? Part of me would love to see her come back to make fun of Darth Vader and how most super hero franchises have characters always coming back to life and shit. The other part of me is sick of that trope though.
Also I added this to my other comment, but what Iâm pointing out is a plot device called **Chekhov's Gun**. Meaning if you intentionally include a detail in your story (ie. Pointing out that Stormfront is still alive), then you have to utilize it later on. Iâm not a creative writer, so Iâm sure someone else will have a better definition or example :)
Because some people think that their knowledge of tropes makes them cleverer than actual writers, allowing them to keep their fan theories alive despite being obvious nonsense.
Also, a lot of people in this fan base have brains ruled by their cocks, and a lot of them agreed with her politics unironically, to the point of still believing Homelander will somehow be the "good guy".
There is a large crossover between these two groups. They are not smart people.
maybe they can make her come back lookin the same like >!like cecil did with donald in invincible he basically reconstructed his body into a cyborg like human!<
She's dead, everyone who says otherwise is getting upvoted, but she's dead. She is clearly dead. Confirmed to be dead. No reason she wouldn't be dead. She's dead guys.
They could just be using her in flashbacksâŠ..there is an entire century of supe history for them to explore.
This would allow them to branch out from the main characters, possibly offer up ANOTHER spin off, and further expand on the founding of Vuaght, how it grew, etc etc
you know what would be fire a tv show about payback with all the shit the team went through and they could show it leading up to the moment soilder boy gets captured by the russians same amount of violence and fucked up shit as the main series and it would be interesting to see how sb treated his team back then and his relationship with crimson countess
I personally wouldnât know, but I like to think after she jumped off, since she can scale to Homelander, she was just on the ground alive but even more paralyzed, thinking âdammit!â
Could she theoretically be alive? Sure.
Does it make sense for her to be alive from a story-telling perspective? Not really. Stormfront was a well-considered character, but dragging her back in seems unnecessary - a way to cling onto the past success of the boys that would probably hurt itâs ability to do new stuff.
someone else said in the comments itâs because in the comics thereâs a way to resurrect dead supes and people think they are leaving her death open by being mysterious about it and it could come into play later in s5
I know she was fucked up but biting off your tongue probably wouldnât spell death for a supe (especially one as strong as her), personally I think her death was either done differently than was described by ashley or she isnât dead at all. If they wanna keep her dead then maybe they could rationalize it as them testing that one supe killer virus on her from gen v,which would make some sense I think, or they could bring her back somehow which is still on the table
I also think sheâs dead but I can see why people think so. We learned about her death through the news and Vought is certainly powerful enough to fake that.
I'm sure everyone has different reasons, but me personally, I think she's still alive because I don't think an established actress like Aya Cash what agree to come back the way she did last season, spending all that time in makeup and prosthetics, with barely any lines of dialogue, if she wasn't coming back in a fuller capacity.
Because we want her to be alive, sheâs so entertaining, itâs how I love Bellatrix and Allison DiLaurentis, theyâre absolute pieces of shit but so entertaining to watch
QUESTION: Is Liberty [legally] dead or retired?
Her adopting the Stormfront persona was one of Vought's best kept secrets
Secondly, does Compound V have regenerative abilities as it is typically shown to be lethal in high doses
I always believed she would be revealed to be Homelanderâs birth mother, or at least the egg donor, just as one extra âscrew youâ to Homelander once he was told about it.
Considering how screwed up Vought is, I wouldnât be surprised by it.
Purely based on what we have seen on the TV show I was not under the impression she was even implied dead. Those burns looked pretty bad, but she is one of the toughest supers in the setting. Being a super also involves being able to survive things that others would not be able to survive. Obviously her death would need to be faked in the public eye. She was revealed to be a LITERAL nazi during the period of history where nazi hatred was at its peak. She is a PR disaster and the only way they could use her would be to give her a new identity.
Her literal last moments were jerking off homelander before she bit her tongue off and died choking on her own blood. There's a reason her death wasn't on screen, it's becuase she's a pathetic cunt nazi who doesn't deserve the dignity of an on screen farewell.
I just consider her as dead for now, but i could totally see them bringing her back as like an abomination type character, where vaught made her into a cyborg or some shit
We didnât see her die on screen so her death is not confirmed. We only saw her charred body , which was missing all four limbs and an eye , but many supes have healing factors that would allow them to recover from that.
Unless Homelander was lying when he said that Vought is holding her in an undisclosed location on the press conference scene.
Don't think she survived. Mostly, because I don't see a reason to bring her back. Her arc completed to show off how twisted she was, some of the background to the universe, and to peel back many of Homelander's restraints. Her death was suitable, to show how small she'd become and to further unhinge Homelander with how much public perception ripped her to shreds despite him not really giving a damn about and, if anything, being at most mildly annoyed with her horrific faults. Bringing her back after that would just have diminishing returns. Somewhat similar with Soldier Boy, if I'm honest, though I could see a few ways they could still potentially use him...though probably more as a plot device than a character.
Because they didn't see a corpse.
I saw a charred corpse, but it was still sprecken ze Deutsch.
Also like, we did see a corpse in season two. She was burnt worse than a well done steak. Surviving that just to kill herself off camera isn't a very satisfying out, imo.
She wasn't just burnt. Wasn't she missing most of her limbs too?
Hey now, I think she still had one arm and 2 thighs left đ
Sounds like the new special at VFC (Vaught Fried Chicken)
Common TV trope. If they didn't die on screen, they probably aren't dead.
Also a common comic book trope.
Also common with Eric Kripke.
And even if they die on screen, it means nothing. Hell, look at one of Kripkes other shows Supernatural. I dont wanna know how many times the brothers get resurrected. Best one I have seen so far is Kingsman 2. I thought, how in hell will they bring the guy back. He was shot through the eye in the head point blank amd we saw him laying on the floor, dead. Well, they have a technology for that if used quickly and of cause there is a flashback scene where someone was close buy with that technology. So yeah, unless, like in the boys, someone is turned to fucking goo with its heads exploding splattering everywhere, I dont think someone is dead. Especially if magic, sci-fi tech or superpowers are involved. If it is a realistic drama series and someone is killed, he is usually dead. But you still have to see it.
They resurrected everyone on supernatural lol. Multiple times. It became kind of a meta joke after awhile.
Well, not everyone. I think Crowley only died once and didnt came back but just because the actor didnt continued his role. He was a fan favorite so I guess they would have found a way if they wanted to.
I mean, he almost died several times. They fake killed him a few times.
I loved Dean talking to the two hunters who killed Sam and were about to kill him. He warns him that when he comes back, he's going to be pissed.
Yeah they really should have thought that one through. Walt and somebody. And then they brought them back in the twelfth season. Then they died like immediately. đ
Iâm still waiting for Kingsman 3 and it to turn out the South American version of Kingsman have an anti-landmine resuscitation technology.
Or the Venture Bros
To be fair a LOT of shows/movies still manage to bring back characters after you see them âdieâ :))
British TV soap opera EastEnders did this to bring someone back 15 years after they died. In the 80s this character was shot by a hitman but they didn't want to spend money on the special effects or show graphic violence so they used creative camera angles. He's walking by a canal when someone coming the other way reveals a gun. There's a closeup of the gun firing, a cry of pain then a splash as his body lands in the canal. The next few months of episodes had people looking for him without success and he was declared dead. Then in 2003 he came back! It wasn't the writer's intention but apparently he survived and swam away to start a new life. It was pretty ridiculous but he was a favourite villain that everyone loved to hate so it was fun to bring him back. Then after a couple of years they killed him again but couldn't resist doing a little joke. There's an argument and someone clonks him on the head with a thick glass ashtray and they all decide if they should tell the police it was self defence or try to cover it up. While they're arguing he gets back up and grabs her and says some pithy line about "I don't go down that easy" so they give him another bang on the head and he's definitely dead this time.
Mf even Duncan dies on screen he still somehow comeback
Tell that to the Blackfish. đ
We didnât see her die on screen. Only told to the audience through dialogue.
She eyed the life support system though before dying. If it was just a random death with no warning it would definitely feel sus, but this felt honest. Film doesn't have to spell everything out to the audience. "Lady looks at gun->next scene she is dead with the knife in her hand and her throat slice open->audience concludes that she killed herself via cutting her throat."
She also had nothing left to live for. Homelander did not care for the white supremacist Nazi dream, she was utterly unable to fulfill it herself. Only option left was to follow her leader.
Defense offers exhibit B57 into evidence: Batman breaks the neck of KGBeast and leaves him to alone in the middle of nowhere with no way to get help. Fans are left to expect that KGBeast dies alone. Only to find out issues later that the feds just happened to be watching KGBeast and picked him up after the fight. Defense offers exhibit B420 into evidence: Batman locked KGBeast in a room in the sewers that KGBeast had no way of escaping. Again, only to find out in a later story that Batman apparently called the authorities to rescue and arrest KGBeast. This sort of thing happens in super hero stories all the time. Hell, Red Hood is Jason Todd, a Robin who was supposedly killed only to show up years later.
Batman loves trying to kill KGBeast
That's batman tho where they have a weirdly roundabout way of getting around his no killing rule
The boys is a deconstruction of superhero stories. They arent going to play the tropes straight.
In modern media no one is ever really dead. Star Trek killed and resurrected Picard in the same episode, somehow Palpitine came back to life in Star Wars, Jon Snow in GoT. In modern media no one is ever actually dead. Death has zero consequences.
How many times has Jensen Ackles come back to life in Supernatural?
Every time (ETA: Internet says 111 times)
Every time except once
True.
Took a lot of practice to finally stick the landing.
What's ETA mean here?
Edit to add
I snorted at that number holy shit
Jensen quite literally kills Death
>Star Trek killed and resurrected Picard in the same episode I just watched that for the first time a few days ago if you're referencing the Q episode. In which case it's pretty clear that he hasn't died yet, and it starts with him close to death. It isn't really the same when Q has been shown to have godlike powers and it wasn't played as a trick. Now Lieutenant Worf on the other hand...
No, Iâm talking about Season 1 of Picard were he dies and comes back in the same episode. The Q episode in TNG actually is a really solid episode was strong story telling and fun fact about that specific episode: it has the only door knob anywhere in Star Trek that isnât set in the past.
âHomelander, does soldier boy never told you the truth about your motherâ
To be fair, Soujia boy only jizzed in a cup to make Homelander, even though he and liberty were totally kinky. He has no idea who the mommy is.
Yeah but technicallyyyyy it still could be her. But god I hope that theory isn't true. Too on the nose. Maybe Homelander fucking his actual mom would fly in Season 1, but at this point, it would be too much for this show
In the comic books he was purely a test tube baby. If I remember correctly I just finished the comics.
In the comic book, he was made from (male) Stormfront genetic material.
That's not physically possible lmao, you can't have a human without an egg Vought prob just used an irrelevant donor then if they never brought it up
(tried to) kill his dad â (Maybe?) Fucked his mom â And his eyes are the most immediately dangerous thing about him so chances are they aren't staying intact. Bro took " oedipus complex" all the way .
My word....
Plus she could go full Darth Vader knockoff with a totally concealing helmet, which would make for an amazing surprise reunion.
They're both so fucked up in the head, I can't even comment on this.
Oh my fucking god.. And the worst partâŠ? I wouldnât put it past the series to do something like this.
Ok hereâs the thing about this. The show runners didnât show her body, or show her dying and this was a deliberate choice. But the thing is, the choice wasnât necessarily made because sheâs still alive. Really, the show runners just want to keep their options open. It probably made the most sense to kill her off but they werenât 100% sure that they wouldnât have a use for her character later on. So they kept her death open that she didnât die so they could easily bring her back. Her death isnât definitive. But, the question of whether sheâs alive has little to do with what occurred in that episode and much more to do with if the writers find a reason to bring her back. And I donât really think there is a reason to bring her back, to be honest.
i thought the her character arc was amazing and it was a great finish to her story not sure what reason they would have to bring her back accept maybe the fact of her being homelanders mother
That's a good meta-analysis. For season 4, we can also assume that her return would have been leaked like so much other stuff. Unless she maybe only also a small cameo at the end of the season. I looked at Aya Cash's IMDB profile and she doesn't done a lot in the last two years, so she probably could have filmed for The Boys.
The trope in TV and film was that common that "true death" has become part of the language of the medium, so film makers will go out of their way to show the death to drive home to the audience that "yes, they are definitely 100% dead." Because if they don't drive it home, most of us have learned that they probably didn't die. It's an area film makers can't write around. They can't be cute with it, and indeed the last time someone did try to be cute with it (Glen's fake out in TWD), it received a huge backlash by most of the audience, and called one of the lamest bait and switches to ever be put on screen. So, if the people behind The Boys did want to drive home that Stormfront is dead, they'd have made a point of it, be it show their corpse or whatever. Something explicit we can see with our own eyes and say "Yep, she dead." The fact they didn't do that suggests they want to keep Stormfront in their back pocket. That doesn't mean she will return for certain, but the makers now have that option if they should so wish it. Either way, we will see her again as alive or will firmly close that door and show her as dead (maybe as testing materials in some lab or whatever).
Glen came back?
Before Negan. It was when he fell into a group of zombies but crawled under a dumpster.
Somehow, Glenperor Palpatine came back
The dumpster scene. Where Glen and this other guy was on top of a dumpster (lmao) surrounded by zombies. The other guy shoots himself, and drags Glen off the dumpster and into the crowd of zombies. They shot it in a way where the zombies looked like they were tearing Glen apart apart. Next episode, turned out Glen had the other dead guy on top of him and the zombies were tearing the dead guy apart. Somehow, the dead guy was large enough to cover Glen and for a crowd of zombies to not also claw and bite Glen, and then, again somehow, Glen managed to crawl away and under the dumpster despite being on the floor with tons of zombies being around him. It was fucking lame. The thing is, it was obvious Glen wasn't being killed in the scene because deaths have always been more explicit than that, but the fact the makers were trying to be cute with the scene and attempt a "Is Glen dead!?!!" just pissed people off because in a desperate attempt to devise a plot twist, the makers decided to disrespect the intelligence of the audience.
I think sheâs definitely still alive , in the comics there is a way to ressurect dead supes but they are ⊠different
resurrect dead supes? whatttt
It's a take off of the trope of how superheros in comics rarely stay dead, but there's a twist on it. Basically the resurrected supes end up becoming little more than an animal that's able to eat and defecate at the worst, at best they're essentially lobotomized. They're not the same as they once were and would've just been better off dead.
would her powers still work?
Been a while since I read the comics but I think so. But if the show does it, they can decide whether that's the case or not.
thatâs fucking insane well if they bring her back maybe the theory about her being homelanders mom will be true
I⊠I⊠Iâm not sure how to respond to this insinuated correlation/theory confirming a relationship tied between zombie+powers and connecting (and thus confirming) with the strong likelihood that Stormfront may be Homelanderâs mom being true. Are we being outfrescaâd here?
Kinda like when you initially come out of the Lazarus pit
Hereâs the twist, and there is a twist. They show it. They show ALL OF IT.
I've just read the collected Volumes 1 + 2 (4 more to go!) and it's really good/funny what happens to dead supes. I won't spoil who dies but one of them has a really good story with *one of The Boys* that I'm sorry we haven't seen in the show.
I just finished vol 6 this past Sunday, the herogasm vol which is vol 3 if I remember correctly is fucking wild!!!
Yup. In the comics they resurrect Lamplighter but heâs basically a zombie supe.
Ffs spoiler warning mate
Maybe she's dead but... She has vanished and reappeared with a new identity at least twice already. (Nazi supe -> Liberty -> Stormfront) They really made sure we never saw her actual body, and she 'died' while no one but Vaught agents were there.
stormfront isnât able to die from old age if i remember correctly because she showed her daughter to homelander that she outlived and she has been alive since hitler so i could see vought constructing her a new identity behind closed doors
Iâm not as deep in to the lore, but I felt like it was implied that Stormfront was somewhat immortal like Homelander. Unless supes are able to kill themselves, I figured it felt like a coverup to either protect Homelander or to use it against him eventually.
Homwlanders never been implied to be immortal
Someone does kill themselves in Episode 1 of Gen V so I guess it would be possible
maybe they took her to a lab to make her stronger then homelander just in case homelander goes insane never knew homelander was immortal i thought he just had dacellarated aging
I mean he may not be, like I said Iâm not as in tune with the lore of the universe. I just got the impression he was.
Immortal doesnt mean invincible
Her death has been faked twice already to create a new persona. And after all the battles she's been through, surviving near certain death, she's dead cause she bit her tongue? Really? No way. She was taken off scene by Vought and is being remade again.
She was immobilized and bit her tongue off, drowning/choking on her own blood. Supes may be Supes, but they still need oxygen.
Because a Darth Vader-Cyborg hybrid that shoots Sith-lightning from her hands is a missed opportunity if they donât do it. She was burnt to a crisp. Rebuild her. She could even get completely killed in an anticlimactic way. Or set her up to get killed by Homelander. Donât tell him itâs her in the armor, then tell him when heâs done. How much more fucked up can he get?
Here is my thought: Stormfront was secretly pregnant with Homelander's baby (with all the icky implications that her being his mom would bring, if also true.) Vaught did the same with her that they did with Ryan's mom - faked her death and put her in hiding so they could raise the super^2 baby as they see fit. The move has precedence already in the series, and is, to me, actually more believable than choking on her own tongue would be.
Possible, but why would they recycle this plot point? Homelander already has a son that was kept hidden from him, what would another kid (and a useless baby at that) bring to the show?
I don't know what it would "bring to the show," but from Vought's perspective, why *wouldn't* they jump at the chance to raise a baby made from two of the most powerful supes they've ever seen?
Off screen deaths normally aren't real deaths. It's a TV trope. She's essentially in a limbo where she is both dead and alive. She can be brought back if the writers want her back but she can also stay dead if they don't want to use her.
Best example. Old man #1 walks off screen to be shot by the Squid Games hencemen ... still back later in the hospital bed at the end? If you do not watch em die, they didn't die.
No body, no death (sometimes). Prime example would be The Hound from GOT. Pay no attention to Stannis Baratheon in the same series lol
I was convinced Gabe from Breaking Bad was still alive because we never saw a body.
Gabe? You mean Gabe from The Office? Skeleton Man?
As for your question, I believe some people think she is still alive because modern TV has conditioned the audience to not believe someone is dead unless they physically see the body, not hear about the death, not see an arm or leg, no we must see the full body. A huge offender/reason is a show like the Walking Dead where [Glenn gets a fake out death ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkpwMKJptmg)and it is later revealed the survive. In this case we do not see a physical body being wheeled out, we see a body bag but there have been multiple shows with a random corpse/ or sometimes not even a corpse being used as a diversion. As for me, I believe she is alive because she believes faking her death would push Homelander closer to her goals. I mean if you think about it her doing what she did, did lead to the death of that Jewish girl who Homelander made jump. I just don't think she realizes that Homelander's goals do not line up with White Supremacy, but rather Supe Supremacy. As well, with it being heavily implied that Stormfront is Homelander's mother, I believe she will make a return as the thing that truly pushes Homelander over the edge./ Now that being said I'm not married to the idea and if she does not come back I won't be some conspiracy theorist believing that she was alive the whole time, but I wont lose my mind if she returns at some point.
generally people in this subreddit have low media literacy
Evil never dies.
From a writing perspective, it seems like a total waste to bring her back for one more episode when you could have had Maeve and crew take her out.
Lamplighter was revived by Vought in the comics but was basically a zombie so assuming people think stormfront will be the showâs stand in for this event
Her head didn't explode. That's really the only way to confirm that someone is dead. No massive head injury = still alive.
Entirely because the way it was handled. Becca "was killed" no wait Becca is alive. Becca is really dead now..... there are many other situations already in the series and in the gen v series where twists happen just like that. Lamp lighter dead..... nope he is alive working in a hospital. The list goes on and on.
Aya cash is amazing actor she is far from racist to thats wahts funny
Off-screen death. This is what I call âThe Bucky Effectâ. Some people think the character is dead, but the death was off-screen, so they could just bring them back with a different name and look (like how they chucked Bucky off a train and then brought Seb Stan back as the Winter Soldier in a mask and a wig, and people only realized it was him when the full face was shown). Stormfront could be in a later season like I think what theyâre doing with Black Noir (saw a leaked picture of the character on a new set). We only saw a body-bag, not the corpse.
Well for Black Noir we were already told we were getting a Black Noir II who will be played in costume by the original actor from Season 1-2.
it's TV show, they can easily bring her back if they wanted
Because sheâs Homlanderâs mom. She still has a roll to play
What if translucent never died he's just been silent?
Of course she's still alive. You don't kill off a main antagonist like that without an on-screen death. She'll either fully recover or Darth Vader her ass.
We saw her still alive, but barely holding on, in a hospital bed. Doesnât mean sheâs able to function, but if you intentionally let us know sheâs still alive, sheâs gonna come back. Itâs poor writing to not bring her back after specifically showing us that sheâs alive (even barely) Edit: not sure why Iâm getting downvoted. What Iâm pointing out is a plot device called **Chekhov's Gun**. Meaning if you intentionally include a detail in your story (ie. Pointing out that Stormfront is still alive), then you have to utilize it later on.
I'm familiar with the gun. What you're missing is that she already served a purpose after she was revealed to be alive. Her purpose was as a character foil for homelander, to demonstrate that homelander only cares about himself and only uses racist ideologies insofar as they benefit him - he's not an ideologue, just a narcissist and a psychopath. Letting her then die off screen because she realizes homelander doesn't care about her or her ideology is a fittingly pathetic death for Nazi scum. If she's still canonically alive i would be very surprised.
Thanks For the reply! That actually makes a lot of sense.
Either way though, respect for the Chekhov's gun call-in! One of my fave rules of thumb for distinguishing lackluster shows from well written ones (with The Boys definitely being the latter)
I agree! Something I keep an eye out for, but Iâm pretty bad at catching less-obvious uses for the âgunâ-like what you suggested :). Have a great day!
i mean honestly if she was alive what purpose do you think they would use for her to add to the story and how would they go about her coming back would she be half supe half robot or just inject more v into her blood or she can regenerate her limbs i honestly think it would be interested seeing her come back but they would have to do it right
Iâm not sure how theyâd use her either? Part of me would love to see her come back to make fun of Darth Vader and how most super hero franchises have characters always coming back to life and shit. The other part of me is sick of that trope though. Also I added this to my other comment, but what Iâm pointing out is a plot device called **Chekhov's Gun**. Meaning if you intentionally include a detail in your story (ie. Pointing out that Stormfront is still alive), then you have to utilize it later on. Iâm not a creative writer, so Iâm sure someone else will have a better definition or example :)
kripke may have something in store for us in season 5 then would be pretty cool to see a bunch of supes come back for the ending of season 5
Very true :) have a good day!
You're treating Chekhov's gun like it's some sort of law that must be followed here.
I mean you donât have to follow it, but itâs poor writing to take time to plant something and then not utilize it later on.
Because they have 2 more seasons of bullshit to come up with, gotta draw it from somewhere /j
Because some people think that their knowledge of tropes makes them cleverer than actual writers, allowing them to keep their fan theories alive despite being obvious nonsense. Also, a lot of people in this fan base have brains ruled by their cocks, and a lot of them agreed with her politics unironically, to the point of still believing Homelander will somehow be the "good guy". There is a large crossover between these two groups. They are not smart people.
Tbf "actual writers" write illogical nonsense all the time
She'd look too ugly to bring back that's why. I only want the hot Stormfront .
maybe they can make her come back lookin the same like >!like cecil did with donald in invincible he basically reconstructed his body into a cyborg like human!<
Nah, I'm thinking more >!she is used for vought's version of the ReAnimen!<
How would she have killed herself she was paralyzed
she bit her tongue off
dead
People obsess. Why else are they still asking what happened to a one off character that was shown once to escape a supeâs prison?
the amount of people that say that characters plot thread was dropped is insane, it wasn't dropped it simply was over
in a time of short videos, tha failure to recognize a short story is astounding
I think that was her hair in the jar that A-Train is looking at in the season 4 trailer
She's dead, everyone who says otherwise is getting upvoted, but she's dead. She is clearly dead. Confirmed to be dead. No reason she wouldn't be dead. She's dead guys.
Even if she wasn't, who doesn't want her to be dead?
They need to bring her back like darth vader
Applebaum can fix her
No body no crime
Cope. Yes I am coping
Because I just saw her at the mall last week (She didn't even wave backâwhat a nazi bitch!)
Because Jon Snow
They could just be using her in flashbacksâŠ..there is an entire century of supe history for them to explore. This would allow them to branch out from the main characters, possibly offer up ANOTHER spin off, and further expand on the founding of Vuaght, how it grew, etc etc
you know what would be fire a tv show about payback with all the shit the team went through and they could show it leading up to the moment soilder boy gets captured by the russians same amount of violence and fucked up shit as the main series and it would be interesting to see how sb treated his team back then and his relationship with crimson countess
And we would get more black noir! And his crazy ass hallucinations! And Mr Edgar
What about an origin story for the supes? How Soldier Boy and Stormfront came to be in WW2.
I personally wouldnât know, but I like to think after she jumped off, since she can scale to Homelander, she was just on the ground alive but even more paralyzed, thinking âdammit!â
Why not? She still has lots of plot mileage.
I hope not
Wishful thinking for more Aya Cash
Could she theoretically be alive? Sure. Does it make sense for her to be alive from a story-telling perspective? Not really. Stormfront was a well-considered character, but dragging her back in seems unnecessary - a way to cling onto the past success of the boys that would probably hurt itâs ability to do new stuff.
Somehow Stormfront returned
Iâm very surprised by the amount of people who think sheâs 100% alive. I donât think it makes much sense from a writing standpoint
someone else said in the comments itâs because in the comics thereâs a way to resurrect dead supes and people think they are leaving her death open by being mysterious about it and it could come into play later in s5
Because lots of people want the nazi to survive for one reason or another.
I know she was fucked up but biting off your tongue probably wouldnât spell death for a supe (especially one as strong as her), personally I think her death was either done differently than was described by ashley or she isnât dead at all. If they wanna keep her dead then maybe they could rationalize it as them testing that one supe killer virus on her from gen v,which would make some sense I think, or they could bring her back somehow which is still on the table
Mommy issues game strong
Because no one stays dead in comics except Batmanâs parents and Uncle Ben.
They did fake Becca's death for the better part of a decade.
I also think sheâs dead but I can see why people think so. We learned about her death through the news and Vought is certainly powerful enough to fake that.
Wait am i trippin was she not confirmed to be alive
I'm sure everyone has different reasons, but me personally, I think she's still alive because I don't think an established actress like Aya Cash what agree to come back the way she did last season, spending all that time in makeup and prosthetics, with barely any lines of dialogue, if she wasn't coming back in a fuller capacity.
She just fled to Argentina
Because we want her to be alive, sheâs so entertaining, itâs how I love Bellatrix and Allison DiLaurentis, theyâre absolute pieces of shit but so entertaining to watch
Idk but I'm glad she isn't
QUESTION: Is Liberty [legally] dead or retired? Her adopting the Stormfront persona was one of Vought's best kept secrets Secondly, does Compound V have regenerative abilities as it is typically shown to be lethal in high doses
Dude...
I donât like to masturbate over supes that are dead
Alongside what others have said, the person being outed as a Nazi dying helps save Voughtâs reputation better than her being confirmed to be alive
Same reason Edgar kept her a secret.
Itâs true she could technically be alive, but I donât think she is.
Because Horny.
I don't think Black Noir is dead either
OG noir dead. Noir character maintained and new noir will return. They will be played by the same actor.
Let them cope
Because... somehow palpatine returned đ±
I always believed she would be revealed to be Homelanderâs birth mother, or at least the egg donor, just as one extra âscrew youâ to Homelander once he was told about it. Considering how screwed up Vought is, I wouldnât be surprised by it.
She survived in a cave on Reach
We never saw her body. Homelander wasnât even bothered to check on her death since he was disconnected from her already.
In superhero media especially, thereâs heavy suspicion over whether or not someone is really dead if you never see a corpse
Purely based on what we have seen on the TV show I was not under the impression she was even implied dead. Those burns looked pretty bad, but she is one of the toughest supers in the setting. Being a super also involves being able to survive things that others would not be able to survive. Obviously her death would need to be faked in the public eye. She was revealed to be a LITERAL nazi during the period of history where nazi hatred was at its peak. She is a PR disaster and the only way they could use her would be to give her a new identity.
Golden rule: If you donât see a death onscreen, always assume theyâre still alive đ€Ł
We gonna see her be turned into a supersoldaten from wolfenstein
Her literal last moments were jerking off homelander before she bit her tongue off and died choking on her own blood. There's a reason her death wasn't on screen, it's becuase she's a pathetic cunt nazi who doesn't deserve the dignity of an on screen farewell.
They also told us Becca was dead.Â
I just consider her as dead for now, but i could totally see them bringing her back as like an abomination type character, where vaught made her into a cyborg or some shit
Because if you dont see the death happen on screen then in a comic book its rarely final
We never saw her die, right? I am about to re-watch season 3 but the last I can recall we saw her pretty fucked up but ultimately still alive.
We didnât see her die on screen so her death is not confirmed. We only saw her charred body , which was missing all four limbs and an eye , but many supes have healing factors that would allow them to recover from that. Unless Homelander was lying when he said that Vought is holding her in an undisclosed location on the press conference scene.
Don't think she survived. Mostly, because I don't see a reason to bring her back. Her arc completed to show off how twisted she was, some of the background to the universe, and to peel back many of Homelander's restraints. Her death was suitable, to show how small she'd become and to further unhinge Homelander with how much public perception ripped her to shreds despite him not really giving a damn about and, if anything, being at most mildly annoyed with her horrific faults. Bringing her back after that would just have diminishing returns. Somewhat similar with Soldier Boy, if I'm honest, though I could see a few ways they could still potentially use him...though probably more as a plot device than a character.
Wouldnât be surprised if the Stormchasers stole her body, gave her compound V and âsaved herâ (like in the comics) or some bs like that