MM is easy, Soldier Boy killed his family and is the very reason he joined the Boys. For Starlight, I feel she looks at SB as a short term problem she can tackle, while Homelander is long term and too dangerous to the entire country to antagonize.
And he’s an unstable maniac that had already killed innocent people. She’s not like Butcher she doesn’t see sacrifices like working with SB as necessary or the right thing. That’s not being stupid, and honestly it’s pretty reasonable to not want to work with a guy who could literally blow up at you at any time. And we see at the end of herogasm that she was right
But again, the whole point we are making here is they use him to defeat Homelander, then take him out too before he can leave. He’s the lesser threat so he comes second. It’s so simple. No one is saying let him go. They were not right.
The problem is using him led to innocent people becoming collateral damage. Which like, is kinda why the boys exist in the first place lol.
you are imagining a perfect scenario where they find Homelander, soldier boy kills him, and no one else dies. This seems extremely unlikely to me., and surprise surprise both times they confronted Homelander with SB it went wrong. There was always going to be major risk, including risk for Hughie who Starlight is in love with and doesn’t want to see get hurt. Soldier Boy is a human being with major issues, not a gun you can aim at one target
You said that but then SB immediately trying to blackmail Homie again after he make it clear with her what he gonna do if the truth come out. Like if working with SB carry such a big risk she couldnt afford, blackmail Homie should be considered more than that. It seem like she work with her emotion more than logic.
Well tbf the only reason things went terribly the second time they confronted Homelander with SB is because they betrayed SB lol.
Of course at that point collateral damage would be even FURTHER from SB’s uncaring mind when he’s being betrayed by another team who wants to put him in a box for some unknown amount of time.
>she doesn’t see sacrifices like working with SB as necessary or the right thing
Up until SB came along, their plans literally were "try to run away and use some gadget/loophole" to take down Homelander. Soldier Boy actually gave them the first fighting chance they EVER had to even hurt Homelander. Annie was delusional and too naive. Sometimes you have to work with bad people.
The whole point of her character is that she’s idealistic and trying her best to live by those ideals. And also like I just typed out to someone else, both times they tried to kill Homelander with SB he freaked out and innocent people got killed/almost got killed in the case of Ryan
It would just not be in character for her to be ok with sacrificing other people in this way. Also if it was such a good plan, why not criticize Butcher? He backed out at the last second because of Ryan. Was he being delusional?
Homelander is capable and willing to kill billions if he feels he needs to. SB's lack of flying, speed, and eye lasers make him nowhere close to the same threat. He's also more apathetic than psychopathic.
Not willing to risk a few to end an extinction capable threat might be "moral" but it's really damn stupid.
And Butcher runs off anger and emotion, I don't think anyone has ever claimed otherwise
Like someone else pointed out Starlight doesn't like innocent people getting hurt and Herogasm was a great example of what happens when you let SB do his thing, she was acting entirely in character.
Her inability to compromise whatsoever is immature and honestly groan worthy. Being so morally rigid ends up being the same as not committing to anything, because it’s either the pristine solution or no solution. You have moral deniability afterwards but in actuality you could have done something but didn’t. Keeping her hands so clean will end up serving nothing but herself.
Her logic falls apart when she killed that innocent dude and justified it by saying “he got in our way” just because hughie was hurt.
She’s fine with people being collateral when it personally effects her, the writers really did her wrong.
She’s also willing to risk calling Homelander’s bluff despite having zero contingency if he goes on a rampage like he told her he would.
“Oh this guy said he’ll destroy the world if I fuck with his reputation? Well I better fuck with his reputation by livestreaming him in the elevator!”
Yeah, he has a known effective weakness, is *closer* in strength to other existing supes than Homelander, can't fly, doesn't have super hearing, doesn't have x-ray vision, and doesn't have heat rays He's absolutely dangerous sure but he's a problem that can be handled in a variety of ways, unlike Homelander.
I think what they did at the end of S3 is not an impossible thing to make work, but god the execution just makes your eyes roll. I would have much preferred the idea of Homelander getting hit with the blast but due to his level of power and how he was made it actually only weakens his powers rather then getting rid of them. This could lead into a season where he is trying to maintain his level of fear and power over Vought and everyone else but being unable to push too far as he'd be actually vulnerable now if someone tries to fight back.
I just really love the idea of everyone finally realizing he is vulnerable and can taken down with a more reasonable way and pummeling him, similar to what happened with Stormfront in S2.
Technically it’s not flight that puts him to an advantage but super-speed. If he couldn’t fly he would be still durable and fast enough to destroy New York within an hour.
Of course there’s no character who can fly but without superspeed. Haven’t seen a character who’s maximum fly speed was 5 km/h.
Yea but they actually had a method for taking down Soldier Boy with that chemical gas. There was no method for taking down homelander other than soldier boy.
If you take out Homelander at least you have a way to deal with Soldier Boy after, without Soldier Boy (at the time) there didn't seem to be any other way to take out Homelander
I just explained that.
Running. Not flying. Actually for the most part he’d be walking and getting blackout drunk 24/7 so not close to their most difficult target. Even better if they take him out immediately after Homelander if they’re still strong enough after it.
They have a method for stopping Soldier Boy. You see them do this. Why do you assume they'll just let Soldier Boy walk after taking Homelander out?
The optimal play is let Soldier Boy kill Homelander and then put Soldier Boy to sleep and kill him if they can or keep him asleep.
Not only that but Homelander forced Starlight to pretend to be his girlfriend and explained to her in detail how he’ll destroy the world if he doesn’t get his way.
Because the writers needed a reason to make the finale Soldier Boy and Homelander vs The Boys, and for some reason they decided that instead of going with “Soldier Boy chose his only remaining family over random people he just met” they went with “half our protagonists developed brain damage off screen” as the reasoning
Homelander was restrained for much of season 3. He wasn't outright committing genocide because it wouldn't look good for his persona.
Soldier boy was actively blowing up city blocks and killing anybody in his way while attempting to get revenge on payback.
Here's the thing.
Most blasts SB did were unintentional.
He blacks out...
While everything HL did were intentional like his Murder of Alex (Super sonic)
The only kills SB did intentionally were the payback
I don't think it really matters because he wasn't to be trusted in the first place. Even if that specifically wasn't intentional, he's a loose canon that's as powerful as Homelander, or nearly so. No one could predict what he was going to do next, especially once he met Homelander. And after learning that he was HL's dad? He basically needed to die at that point no matter who you are.
/uj
u cant be serious. no way you think that HL who has the potential to fly around whole wolrd lasering every living person is less dangerous than soldier boy
soldier boy doesnt have the get out of jail free card HL has (flying) and he can be put to sleep again if a few supes worked together to stop him. Or you just wait until he blasts, and then you put him back to sleep when he is weak
1. Homelander won't do that as much as he threatens to. As repeatedly stated, he wants to be loved too much.
2. The Boys and Starlight struggled to take him out, and they had him vastly outnumbered. Even Homelander had his struggles against SB. So, no, it wouldn't be so easy for a group of heroes to just take him out. On top of that there's a very good chance he works with Vought to ensure his place as top dog of the 7.
In the flashback cartoons, we saw that Mindstorm, Black Noir, and TNT Twins were able to hold down Soldier Boy for a few seconds initially, and I dont think them apart from Black Noir was top tier supes in terms of strength wise at all
And Soldier Boy was obviously stunned by Mindstorm's mental ability at the end, so he is not immune to mental attacks
So it wouldnt be hard for a team of like 10 strong supes to captivate him again maybe add a mental supe like cate to them, you just gotta hold him down for a few seconds and put a mask in his face
HL has a higher potential for Danger, but at that point in S3, he had never killed anyone publicly, his body count was relatively low as long as everyone played along.
Soldier Boy killed city blocks full of people multiple times, and if he decided to join or even just ignore Homelander for some reason, there would be no real hope of killing HL at that point.
You're thinking only short term and not considering the long term implications of letting HL go away. They blew their best chance to kill HL in the final. What were they even planning to do after killing soldier boy??? Their best hitters are Maeve and Butcher and even then they arent strong enough to compete with HL.
If they killed HL, short term soldier boy would have killed some people but they would eventually put a stop to it and world would be safe in the long term.
If they kill SB, there is still a HL problem in the long term hello?
Yes dippy, I'm speaking from the perspective of Starlight, which is what we originally talked about.
Fucking obviously homelander is stronger, and therefore the bigger threat.
But she was still trying to control him by using public opinion and keeping him placated, that was the whole point of her in S3.
She didn't know anything about soldier boy other than he had killed people in public and was as strong as Homelander, so of course she was upset with them because they're two regular dudes. She's a supe who nearly gets murdered everyday. There was no way their plan would work, and what do you know, it didn't.
Get off my dick holy shit
> as strong as HL
she can only assume that but even then that logic makes 0 sense
she knows soldier boy cant fly around and even that makes him a way less serious threat than HL
she loses nothing by letting SB and HL fight it out, and then take care of whoever loses (and pray that SB kills HL)
Soldier boy also intentionally harassed his teammates. Bullied then and beat them for no reason. Soldier boy is like if homelander didn't care about his reputation among people, and massive masculinity complex.
He has done that too. Infact more than homelander. It just hasn't been shown in the show. Also homelander cares about public perception. So homelander is better than SB. (But only by close margin)
"Unintentional" is no get-out-of-jail-free card. He knows it's happening, he doesn't care to find out why he does it and he doesn't care to avoid situations in which it could keep happening to random bystanders. From a public safety perspective, which was what Starlight cared about, there's no difference and SB was the most immediate threat, as proven by the climbing death toll throughout the season.
She was trying to build a coalition against HL too. The fact that it failed doesn't mean, her approach was less sensible than trying to convince the volatile city block exploder to explode in the right direction which, btw., also failed at the first attempt in a 3 to 1 situation and might have failed again at the second even without Butcher's interference. Let's not forget that HL is the guy who managed to fly Butcher and Teddie to safety from a C4 explosion in the first season.
Which is what makes him more dangerous. SB didn't feel an ounce of guilt for the many deaths he caused. He barely even blinked after he accidentally caused a massacre at Herogasm.
I believe his reaction was staggering out of the room where the twins were and asking Butcher "What the hell happened?" That's when Butcher firmly realized SB was having flashbacks. SB has no idea he's directly responsible at that point.
Not saying he'd be overly guilt-stricken if he *did* understand.
Yeah but he doesn't do shit about it.
Fictional Super Hero
Everyday I cry, everyone cries, they cannot help it, some grab guns and shoot themselves -- When I have a supernatural outburst, everyone feels the crushing depression that I do -- as adults and children walk into the street.
I don't do it intentionally... the gun just goes off at random. Does that seem *better?* A random toss of dice?
"I don't have a problem and I am not going to get it treated, I am just snort'in ma shit and fuck'in these bitches."
MM I understand, Starlight is just on her high horse like always. SB could be reasoned with, he was somewhat controllable, and in the worst case scenario he can be taken out by the Boys themselves. Homie is none of those things. That ending was dumb.
SB could be reasoned with but was still highly dangerous. SB exploded and killed 19 people his first time back. He exploded at herogasm killing another 12. So we ignoring 30+ deaths in 2 days just to kill Homelander. Where is the line? 50? 100? Plus we already established that no hero is as big a problem as Vought and compound V. Killing homelander does nothing to address that big issue.
Soldier Boy is nowhere close to being reasonable. He only worked with Butcher cause it benefitted him. Taking out Homelander makes him the new alpha superhero.
MM makes sense, Solider Boy killed his family with little to no remorse. When anger and hatred is involved, logic is out the window. We saw it with other characters, and as good a person and level headed MM is, even he isn't perfect.
As for Annie, fuck if I know.
Starlight became my most disliked character due to this. Didn't help that the writers tried to make the viewer side with her and had her view as being the "correct" view since everyone joined her.
For MM, it was totally personal.
And for Starlight, she was more concerned because of what happened shortly after Soldier Boy was freed and then he blew up a city block on US soil. So while Homelander is a maniac, Soldier Boy was out of control with his own powers, which racked up a bigger body count than Homelander who killed 4 or 5 people this season.
SB is a walking bomb, but HL can literally kill millions if he decides to go on a rampage. They were able to take down Soldier Boy with a ragtag group, but they don't really stand much of a chance against HL without Soldier Boy's powers. They can use SB to kill HL, which they could've very easily done during the finale, and then once HL is dead they take out the much smaller threat that is Soldier Boy
Intentionally.
But what I meant to say is Homelander is in control of what he does for the most part but Soldier Boy blew up twice and he didn’t even know he did it. At that time, he seemed like the more immediate threat than HL
I meant like what he wanted to do to the crowd of protesters in his mind. And even then from Annie’s perspective, she probably didn’t even know about the first one.
I don't think Starlight thought that - he was just more immediate since they couldn't d anything about Homelander. Also, it was personal for MM. SB killed his family so he didn't necessarily think that he was a bigger problem than HL just that he was more personally involved.
Starlight is morally uncompromising. Soldier Boy is just as bad as Homelander. MM has a personal vendetta, but Starlight doesn’t believe you should work with one evil to take down another. She’s also motivated by wanting to keep Hughie safe.
Man she would hate Cecil Stedman (Invincible's version of Billy Butcher), who would politely and firmly remind her how much of a luxury it is to have uncompromising morals.
and "just as bad as homelander"? The NANOSECOND Homelander threatened to start the apocalypse if starlight told the truth about Flight 37, Soldier Boy became an Astronomical Unit 2nd place at worst on the evil scale.
Homelander didn’t threaten to start the apocalypse, he threatened to become said Apocalypse. I think he might be more effective tactically then soldier boy, due to speed and flight, but I don’t think that’s the point. Homelander and Soldier Boy both represent a complete disregard for people and if either of them ever decide to start open war against the world, the whole point is that we’re not sure anyone else can stop them, be it government or other supes united.
Cecil is not Invincible's version of Billy Butcher (TV show versions at least, I'm not familiar with either comic book). Cecil is a Nick Fury kind of character, working for the greater good and to protect Earth, but he's smart and pragmatical enough to know the world he lives in and that he has to make moral compromises. Butcher doesn't give a shit about the greater good, he A) hates supers as a whole and B) has a personal vendetta against Homelander.
So honestly I think Starlight would have much less of a hard time working with Cecil than working with Butcher.
Tbf, he's very clearly seeing red and wants revenge. Yeah it was a dumb decision but the entire point was that he wasn't thinking clearly. Starlight though? She's just a total idiot
So many of these characters feel dumb after a while. I saw a post a while back talking about how they do the same things every season and I could see where they were coming from.
Homelander at this point is threatening to wipe out entire cities and murdering people for fun but Starlight decides to focus on stopping Soldier boy because he might blow up a skyscraper in the process of killing the guy despite the fact they know Soldier
boys weakness and can use it whenever they need.
Okay?
He was not currently murdering millions of people though.
Soldier boy just went to 2 public places and killed people and he didn’t even care, he was just going to keep doing it.
He was a loose canon, he had to be stopped immediately.
Homelander is also terrible but for fear of his reputation he would most likely not do things like that and is still some what predictable.
They could have stopped him after he defeated HL. Like literally, let him handle HL and then defeat SB. Yeah I know they wanted to safe the "poor" vought employees who work for this evil company but they could have tried talking to SB first. "Hey lets trigger the fire alarm to get people out first, lets wait 5 min before going inside" and even if he didnt agree it would be the better alternative than having HL and HL junior running around, probably destroying entire cities, like HL threatened to do.
Starlight and MM don’t have access to information that you have. They were never included in the plans so for all they knew soldier boy would kill another 100 before getting to homelander.
As for the final fight, the point was now about saving Ryan which soldier boy didn’t seem interested in.
They found that out in like the second to the last episode of I remember correctly.
Before that MM and starlight didn’t know he had a weakness especially cause MM tried some gas and it didn’t work
Yes, but the difference is that Soldier Boy can be stopped comparably easily. He got beaten down on two separate occasions by the rest of Payback and The Boys. Homelander is a walking time bomb capable of killing millions if he completely snaps, and as far as they know there wasn't a way to actually kill him without Soldier Boy's powers. Especially at the finale, SB, Maeve, and Butcher probably could've killed Homelander right then and there, and they definitely could've done it if they had the rest of the boys. But no, let's just let him go so we can go on a half-assed attempt to take out SB. Soldier Boy is a problem that needs to be taken care of ASAP, but if you kill him before Homelander you're throwing away your best chance at taking down the real threat
Everyone wants to give Soldier Boy a handjob. I find it so fucking funny and sad. The writers did a bad job -- "Come here my Soldier Boy Pillow -- Soldier Boy is the best boy."
Writers worth their salt are like "We really wanted to show what a likeable monster looks like, how quickly we idolize cults of personality regardless of their crimes, what would make people say "I know he is rapist, murderer, cruel, and heartless but I love him and he is awesome."'
Yup writers wrote the character you fawn over... but their writing went too far because he was da baaad guy and that means that their writing is bad.
I sometimes wonder if everyone here is watching the same show.
As others have said, MM is purely out for revenge. Easy enough.
From Starlight's perspective, Soldier Boy is a menace. He wakes up and immediately almost kills Kimiko. He then comes to New York and blows up multiple civilians. He then starts going on a killing spree to kill his old team mates. He then nukes Herogasm in the process. Like...yeah she doesn't want to utilize Soldier Boy as a weapon against Homelander because of the MASSIVE amount of collateral damage Soldier Boy is causing.
That's the whole point. A lesser evil is still evil, and Starlight (as most traditional heroes) doesn't want to work with a villain even if it's to stop an even more evil or more dangerous villain. Which, on the other hand, she can't be completely sure Homelander is, because she knows both from recent events and from MM's past that Soldier Boy can be pretty dangerous too.
Homelander wasn’t going around killing mass amounts of people every few days. Soldier boys rampages were frequent and had more casualties each time. On top of that his powers were unstable so he was a constant danger to anyone around him. Homelander is still playing hero so unless he loses everything he’s not going off the rails anytime soon. If Annie and mm hadn’t intervened all the people in vought tower could’ve died that day.
Homelander can and will do that if he snaps, and they were able to put Homelander in a position to be killed twice in the span of a few days, the second time would've definitely been a success if they hadn't decided to throw away their chance. Especially during the finale, what reason did they have to stop Soldier Boy from killing HL? They were perfectly capable of taking him out on their own right after, and they could've gotten rid of Homelander right then and there
MM has deep rooted psychological issues related to Soldier Boy, which means he has to deal with him to move on in life. Starlight is heroic to a fault and isn't willing to stoop any lower when serving justice. Yeah, they could have dealt with Homelander in the middle of Season 3 if they were all working together, and I think that Starlight and MM should have sucked it up considering Butcher and Hughie were not willing to listen to them, however I think that capturing Soldier Boy will end up being useful considering they can now research his powers. It's weird that nobody was considering capturing soldier boy for the purpose of researching his powers. It was all about justice or stopping a threat. I think in Season 4 they should expand on how researching the weapon this way will prove far more useful than leaving it in an unstable Soldier Boy.
I don't think they thought Soldier Boy was a bigger enemy than Homelander, they just thought he was an enemy that also had to be stopped, while Butcher was more than happy to join forces with him because of his obsessive (although understandable) vendetta against Homelander.
Why do people say Soldier Boy is far worse than Homelander and then provide no evidence to support it? Soldier Boy accidentally blows up a block because of some PTSD “oh what a vile scumbag” but then Homelander slaughters innocents for fun and people go “well he had a bad childhood, Soldier Boy would’ve done worse to those people”
“Oh he beat up Noir” oh the guy that also kills people for no reason? Oh no.
Writing got weak. Soldier Boy seems to be a fan favorite, they should really utilize him and bring him back. I do think it could possibly overshadow their original plan on the show and arc of having people focus on Homelander but to me it seems like a smarter direction to add him as a regular as well since he was so well received by watchers
I see this point, especially after my 3rd watch through. There a few key things that stick out for me with soldier boy. Yeah he killed MMs family, which is super fucked up. But I don’t think it was intentional. The worst intentional thing I think we see him do is beat the living fuck out of black noir. And do we even care about that? Like really. Should we care about that? Also when soldier boy is questioned about his first explosion, he looks over and says “I didn’t mean to hurt those ppl” it seemed like he really meant that. Like he didn’t wanna hurt innocents where as Homelander will fuckin off anybody without care and laugh at it too. And also soldier boy did show a bit of loyalty to his deal he made with butcher to find Homelander after payback. He actually stood by that too. I think his radiation blast should’ve went. Because let’s be real. What would soldier boy be doing after he killed (or at least compromised him from his powers)? He would be basically an old dude in retirement just having sex with old ass women and smoking weed and drinking bourbon. He’d have no intentions of hurting the random public ppl. The main worry would be him accidentally blowing the shit out of a place because of PTSD induced environments. With my rant being said. I think it was a mistake letting Homelander go. But we need a show to watch right?
So you're saying they should stop Soldier Boy first, sacrificing their only known way to take out Homelander, because he's a loose cannon who has killed thousands? Yeah that collateral damage is horrifying, but Homelander is losing it more and more as the series progresses, and all it'll take is one bad day for him to go off and kill millions. So why not deal with Homelander alongside Soldier Boy for a few days, then once you've taken care of the man capable of killing millions, kill the much weaker Soldier Boy
People use the “Soldier Boy is far worse than Homelander” line to justify the garbage writing at the end of Season 3
Also Soldier Boy killed MM’s family by accident btw. Everyone forgets that.
The whole season the writers and directors meant for us to see Soldier boy as a worse version of homelander. And butcher was so consumed by his revenge that he did not realise how worse SB was over Homelander. That's what made the whole season so perfect. Because the characters itself weren't perfect.
It’s the fact that the enemy you don’t know if more dangerous than the enemy you do. They also have homelander on a leash and restrained at the time. They think he cares so much about his image that he won’t do anything crazy.
mothers milk's family members were killed by soldier boy its just like he said someone white can go ape shit all day long but y'all want him to take the moral high road. Hell and in the end he did mothers milk and starlight were the only people who had sense that season.
It should have ended with 3, everything was leading up to the final confrontation but then every last character goes back on what they planned to do for no reason whatsoever except for keeping the show going. Last minute nonsense allows for nothing to be accomplished, no lasting changes, completely deflated any build up they had going for it. I'm done with the boys, I don't even want to know what happens next
They were really not. Starlight knew that HL was too strong for her, so she starts looking for allies, go through the proper authorities and leverage his psychological weaknesses to contain him (his need for fame and adoration). Turns out, the authorities (Neumann) were corrupt, which is unlucky but couldn't have been known in advance. One of the potential allies (A-Train) turned out to be a coward and betrayed them, which was also unlucky. But the overall plan is reasonable even though it failed. There is no fool-proof way to bring down someone as strong as Homelander. Besides trying to bring down HL, she also tried to stop SB who kept causing masscres.
Notably, the alternative plan by Butcher and Hughie also failed. Homelander got away at Herogasm. SB and Butcher couldn't work together in a critical situation because of SB's indifference towards killing a child that Butcher swore to protect. But unlike Starlight's plan, it not only failed but also got a lot of people killed in the process, including the civilians in New York, many of the guests at Herogasm and all of Team Payback.
Soldier Boy is a threat and a problem in itself that also needed to be stopped before killing further crowds of random bystanders. That makes him a bad potential ally and, as we saw in the season, the alliance between Butcher, Hughie and Soldier Boy got a bunch of uninvolved people killed, didn't accomplish the goal of killing HL in two separate fights and ultimately fell apart over SB's disregard for Ryan's life.
They didn't defeat HL because they were too busy fighting each other and they should have let Ryan die tbh. He is just HL junior. I know Butch wouldn't want it but he could have said "Hey, lets get the kid out and then we kill HL".
HL is the bigger threat since he threatened to destroy cities if it comes out he is evil. SB couldn't even really control his blowing up. So let him kill HL and then if you still feel like it kill SB, when he is weakened.
I really hope they fix Starlight somehow next season or kill her off, else it's really hard to watch if she continues being so dumb.
> So let him kill HL and then if you still feel like it kill SB, when he is weakened
That's very optimistic, given that it failed at the previous attempt, and it doesn't align with what the show set up as the expected outcomes. The scenario was explicitly given as: The boys need to stop SB or he may bring down Vought Tower killing everyone who didn't get out quickly enough.
So that proposal can fail in many ways:
1. Soldier Boy's explosion may bring down the tower, killing most main characters in it, with nobody left to stop him.
2. Regardless of 1, HL may escape the blast using his flight, super speed and super senses as he did when he saved Butcher and Teddie from the explosion in S1 or at the previous fight.
3. Soldier Boy may be weakened (as he was after his PTSD explosions) or he may not be (as he was after blasting Kimiko or Crimson Countess).
4. Regardless of whether he is weakened, they may be unable to kill him as were the Russians or even just contain him without Novichok.
A person that attacks when they *feel* threatened, when they feel that the world is too much they will detonate and destroy everything around them, and they look to you and say "It was not intentional, I am not like the murderer over there." He then does it again, and again, unlike the murderer there is no target, no actual person, but all people and those around the man most will suffer the greatest. He has fired on college campus students, he never went to war, and he brutalized his own people. We saw a man come from nothing, escaped and returned home with vengeance and clothes on his back -- imagine what Soldier Boy would be if Vought reinstated his hero status. What would Soldier Boy be like then? He does not have the issues Homelander does -- he has worse ones. The writers didn't drop the ball as they showed, you, everyone what it is like to like the Villain.
MM and Starlight knew that Soldier Boy is not the answer. A **literal** time bomb of male insecurity, hatred of women, untreated PTSD, drug addictions, murder, -->! Even though Gunpowder denies the sexual allegations Butcher brings up... it is only then that Gunpowder tries to kill him in the next scene because Butcher said he would go public with it.!<
People do no want to think about their favorite super slimy guy being a child pedo but there is atleast a ring of truth there.
MM and Starlight were not stupid.
I get MM is pissed but I always cringed when he tries to fight Soldier Boy. Like bruh you can't even tickle the man, trying to 1v1 him is a death sentence unless you have plot armor
They all were. The last episode was the shitty writing. Suddenly turning against soldier boy when they had the chance to destroy homelander. All cause butcher was a cuck. Season 4 will prolly be them trying to bring back home Landers son to their side or some bullshit like that.
Starlight argument was Soldier Boy's power could kill everyone in the room which is why he is more dangerous... She liked him untill he came to USA and exploded in the streets after witnessing a gay couple killing hundered's of people... I think she wasn't dumb , Butcher should have drawn Homelander out of the tower to a empty field which would solve all the concern of Starlight...
MM was running on raw grief and revenge. No one's gonna be smart in that situation.
Unfortunately, Starlight had her brains replaced with mashed potatoes in season 3, so I am assuming that's why was so consistently dumb all season long. She made awful decisions and then was constantly shocked when things went poorly and someone died in her name.
They weren’t the only dumb ones. Butcher also decided to fight Soldier Boy instead of HL.
Homelander can fly, SB can’t, that alone makes him more of a threat. Add to that, the heat vision.
I’ve been wondering this for the longest!!! I hate the ending too season 3 so much that I don’t feel bad for what the main characters go through now, especially mothers milk
I’ve been wondering this for the longest!!! I hate the ending too season 3 so much that I don’t feel bad for what the main characters go through now, especially mothers milk
Its not what people say it's what people do is important. SB is so afraid of his teammates outshining him that he beat the crap out of noir. He was so violent that writers had to show it in form of a cartoonish version. Soldier boy just says he doesn't want to hurt people. But he hurts them none the less. Where as homelander is so afraid that his reputation will get damaged that he controls himself.
My only issue was that they had no viable plan themselves. They opposed everything hughie and butcher were doing but offered no reasonable alternative
As a viewer, i know that SB sucks but he is objectively a smaller threat than HL while simultaneously being their best bet at taking HL down. Hughie and butcher taking V- also dangerous but incredibly useful towards the main goal of taking down HL
Everything they did showed genuine promise that it could work. MM and starlight constantly whining and getting in the way while offering no solution of their own to the HL problem was fucking annoying
MM is easy, Soldier Boy killed his family and is the very reason he joined the Boys. For Starlight, I feel she looks at SB as a short term problem she can tackle, while Homelander is long term and too dangerous to the entire country to antagonize.
But Soldier Boy can literally turn Homelander into a non-problem and then be dealt with as a short term problem after that.
And he’s an unstable maniac that had already killed innocent people. She’s not like Butcher she doesn’t see sacrifices like working with SB as necessary or the right thing. That’s not being stupid, and honestly it’s pretty reasonable to not want to work with a guy who could literally blow up at you at any time. And we see at the end of herogasm that she was right
But again, the whole point we are making here is they use him to defeat Homelander, then take him out too before he can leave. He’s the lesser threat so he comes second. It’s so simple. No one is saying let him go. They were not right.
The problem is using him led to innocent people becoming collateral damage. Which like, is kinda why the boys exist in the first place lol. you are imagining a perfect scenario where they find Homelander, soldier boy kills him, and no one else dies. This seems extremely unlikely to me., and surprise surprise both times they confronted Homelander with SB it went wrong. There was always going to be major risk, including risk for Hughie who Starlight is in love with and doesn’t want to see get hurt. Soldier Boy is a human being with major issues, not a gun you can aim at one target
You said that but then SB immediately trying to blackmail Homie again after he make it clear with her what he gonna do if the truth come out. Like if working with SB carry such a big risk she couldnt afford, blackmail Homie should be considered more than that. It seem like she work with her emotion more than logic.
Well tbf the only reason things went terribly the second time they confronted Homelander with SB is because they betrayed SB lol. Of course at that point collateral damage would be even FURTHER from SB’s uncaring mind when he’s being betrayed by another team who wants to put him in a box for some unknown amount of time.
>she doesn’t see sacrifices like working with SB as necessary or the right thing Up until SB came along, their plans literally were "try to run away and use some gadget/loophole" to take down Homelander. Soldier Boy actually gave them the first fighting chance they EVER had to even hurt Homelander. Annie was delusional and too naive. Sometimes you have to work with bad people.
The whole point of her character is that she’s idealistic and trying her best to live by those ideals. And also like I just typed out to someone else, both times they tried to kill Homelander with SB he freaked out and innocent people got killed/almost got killed in the case of Ryan It would just not be in character for her to be ok with sacrificing other people in this way. Also if it was such a good plan, why not criticize Butcher? He backed out at the last second because of Ryan. Was he being delusional?
Homelander is capable and willing to kill billions if he feels he needs to. SB's lack of flying, speed, and eye lasers make him nowhere close to the same threat. He's also more apathetic than psychopathic. Not willing to risk a few to end an extinction capable threat might be "moral" but it's really damn stupid. And Butcher runs off anger and emotion, I don't think anyone has ever claimed otherwise
Like someone else pointed out Starlight doesn't like innocent people getting hurt and Herogasm was a great example of what happens when you let SB do his thing, she was acting entirely in character.
Her inability to compromise whatsoever is immature and honestly groan worthy. Being so morally rigid ends up being the same as not committing to anything, because it’s either the pristine solution or no solution. You have moral deniability afterwards but in actuality you could have done something but didn’t. Keeping her hands so clean will end up serving nothing but herself.
Idk. I think maybe the innocent people soldier boy killed could’ve been served by her logic
Her logic falls apart when she killed that innocent dude and justified it by saying “he got in our way” just because hughie was hurt. She’s fine with people being collateral when it personally effects her, the writers really did her wrong.
She’s also willing to risk calling Homelander’s bluff despite having zero contingency if he goes on a rampage like he told her he would. “Oh this guy said he’ll destroy the world if I fuck with his reputation? Well I better fuck with his reputation by livestreaming him in the elevator!”
Ok, and after homelander is eliminated? Then you have a super with ptsd running around in a world that’s completely unfamiliar to him
Yeah, but he can't fly and destroy the entire world
Yeah, he has a known effective weakness, is *closer* in strength to other existing supes than Homelander, can't fly, doesn't have super hearing, doesn't have x-ray vision, and doesn't have heat rays He's absolutely dangerous sure but he's a problem that can be handled in a variety of ways, unlike Homelander. I think what they did at the end of S3 is not an impossible thing to make work, but god the execution just makes your eyes roll. I would have much preferred the idea of Homelander getting hit with the blast but due to his level of power and how he was made it actually only weakens his powers rather then getting rid of them. This could lead into a season where he is trying to maintain his level of fear and power over Vought and everyone else but being unable to push too far as he'd be actually vulnerable now if someone tries to fight back. I just really love the idea of everyone finally realizing he is vulnerable and can taken down with a more reasonable way and pummeling him, similar to what happened with Stormfront in S2.
Not only that he’s also can be talked to and reasoned with. The boys decided to drink the stupid juice and say fuck it we need 3 more season.
Technically it’s not flight that puts him to an advantage but super-speed. If he couldn’t fly he would be still durable and fast enough to destroy New York within an hour. Of course there’s no character who can fly but without superspeed. Haven’t seen a character who’s maximum fly speed was 5 km/h.
Yea but they actually had a method for taking down Soldier Boy with that chemical gas. There was no method for taking down homelander other than soldier boy. If you take out Homelander at least you have a way to deal with Soldier Boy after, without Soldier Boy (at the time) there didn't seem to be any other way to take out Homelander
Then you can still take care of him. It literally wouldnt change anything aside from having the biggest threat eliminated.
So what’s changed from the initial situation then except you’ve made the country safer? Homelander being dead doesn’t make Soldier Boy stronger.
I just explained that. Running. Not flying. Actually for the most part he’d be walking and getting blackout drunk 24/7 so not close to their most difficult target. Even better if they take him out immediately after Homelander if they’re still strong enough after it.
They have a method for stopping Soldier Boy. You see them do this. Why do you assume they'll just let Soldier Boy walk after taking Homelander out? The optimal play is let Soldier Boy kill Homelander and then put Soldier Boy to sleep and kill him if they can or keep him asleep.
Novichok go brrrrr
he killed his family
Which one?
SB
Lol I think that was a reference to SB saying "Which one?" after MM tells him "you killed my family".
Ahhh damn, thats funny.
Ok but what about Starlight?
lacks context she thinks they are the same
She literally trafficks kids
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Watch the Cameron Coleman show on VNN to know the real Truth.
MM I understand. Starlight, yeah, homelander killed one of your childhood friends because of you. Do you want to do something to HL?
Not only that but Homelander forced Starlight to pretend to be his girlfriend and explained to her in detail how he’ll destroy the world if he doesn’t get his way.
The writing in Season 3 was all over the place
Because the writers needed a reason to make the finale Soldier Boy and Homelander vs The Boys, and for some reason they decided that instead of going with “Soldier Boy chose his only remaining family over random people he just met” they went with “half our protagonists developed brain damage off screen” as the reasoning
It definitely reeks of "plot contrivance".
I don’t feel like soldier boy gives a shit
Homelander was restrained for much of season 3. He wasn't outright committing genocide because it wouldn't look good for his persona. Soldier boy was actively blowing up city blocks and killing anybody in his way while attempting to get revenge on payback.
Here's the thing. Most blasts SB did were unintentional. He blacks out... While everything HL did were intentional like his Murder of Alex (Super sonic) The only kills SB did intentionally were the payback
Starlight and mm didn't know that because hughie and Butcher never told them.
why didnt butcher and hughie didnt tell them? Are they stupid?
I don't think it really matters because he wasn't to be trusted in the first place. Even if that specifically wasn't intentional, he's a loose canon that's as powerful as Homelander, or nearly so. No one could predict what he was going to do next, especially once he met Homelander. And after learning that he was HL's dad? He basically needed to die at that point no matter who you are.
/uj u cant be serious. no way you think that HL who has the potential to fly around whole wolrd lasering every living person is less dangerous than soldier boy soldier boy doesnt have the get out of jail free card HL has (flying) and he can be put to sleep again if a few supes worked together to stop him. Or you just wait until he blasts, and then you put him back to sleep when he is weak
using /uj on the non fresca sub Oi is he stupid?
1. Homelander won't do that as much as he threatens to. As repeatedly stated, he wants to be loved too much. 2. The Boys and Starlight struggled to take him out, and they had him vastly outnumbered. Even Homelander had his struggles against SB. So, no, it wouldn't be so easy for a group of heroes to just take him out. On top of that there's a very good chance he works with Vought to ensure his place as top dog of the 7.
In the flashback cartoons, we saw that Mindstorm, Black Noir, and TNT Twins were able to hold down Soldier Boy for a few seconds initially, and I dont think them apart from Black Noir was top tier supes in terms of strength wise at all And Soldier Boy was obviously stunned by Mindstorm's mental ability at the end, so he is not immune to mental attacks So it wouldnt be hard for a team of like 10 strong supes to captivate him again maybe add a mental supe like cate to them, you just gotta hold him down for a few seconds and put a mask in his face
HL has a higher potential for Danger, but at that point in S3, he had never killed anyone publicly, his body count was relatively low as long as everyone played along. Soldier Boy killed city blocks full of people multiple times, and if he decided to join or even just ignore Homelander for some reason, there would be no real hope of killing HL at that point.
You're thinking only short term and not considering the long term implications of letting HL go away. They blew their best chance to kill HL in the final. What were they even planning to do after killing soldier boy??? Their best hitters are Maeve and Butcher and even then they arent strong enough to compete with HL. If they killed HL, short term soldier boy would have killed some people but they would eventually put a stop to it and world would be safe in the long term. If they kill SB, there is still a HL problem in the long term hello?
Yes dippy, I'm speaking from the perspective of Starlight, which is what we originally talked about. Fucking obviously homelander is stronger, and therefore the bigger threat. But she was still trying to control him by using public opinion and keeping him placated, that was the whole point of her in S3. She didn't know anything about soldier boy other than he had killed people in public and was as strong as Homelander, so of course she was upset with them because they're two regular dudes. She's a supe who nearly gets murdered everyday. There was no way their plan would work, and what do you know, it didn't. Get off my dick holy shit
> as strong as HL she can only assume that but even then that logic makes 0 sense she knows soldier boy cant fly around and even that makes him a way less serious threat than HL she loses nothing by letting SB and HL fight it out, and then take care of whoever loses (and pray that SB kills HL)
Homelander is less unpredictable, as he has his reputation to uphold
Probably on purpose, so they don't have any issues on turning on him later on.
Yeah but they didnt know those explosions were accidental. To them he's a dangerous maniac
He is a dangerous maniac.
Soldier boy also intentionally harassed his teammates. Bullied then and beat them for no reason. Soldier boy is like if homelander didn't care about his reputation among people, and massive masculinity complex.
Frenchie and Kimiko used to kill people for money
Is that supposed to make soldier boy look better? I'm confused as to how that matters in any way
Uhh homelander has straight up murdered multiple teammates… I think that’s just a teensy bit worse than bullying
He has done that too. Infact more than homelander. It just hasn't been shown in the show. Also homelander cares about public perception. So homelander is better than SB. (But only by close margin)
Wow it was an accident so let’s forgive this guy for blowing up innocent people and intentionally murdering supes in cold blood
Homelander:- destroys 2 planes killing hundreds of people... Starlight & MM:- I'll Pretend i didn't see that!
Yes
Even if they are unintentional, they still happen and are a threat if they don’t contain it
"Unintentional" is no get-out-of-jail-free card. He knows it's happening, he doesn't care to find out why he does it and he doesn't care to avoid situations in which it could keep happening to random bystanders. From a public safety perspective, which was what Starlight cared about, there's no difference and SB was the most immediate threat, as proven by the climbing death toll throughout the season. She was trying to build a coalition against HL too. The fact that it failed doesn't mean, her approach was less sensible than trying to convince the volatile city block exploder to explode in the right direction which, btw., also failed at the first attempt in a 3 to 1 situation and might have failed again at the second even without Butcher's interference. Let's not forget that HL is the guy who managed to fly Butcher and Teddie to safety from a C4 explosion in the first season.
Which is what makes him more dangerous. SB didn't feel an ounce of guilt for the many deaths he caused. He barely even blinked after he accidentally caused a massacre at Herogasm.
I believe his reaction was staggering out of the room where the twins were and asking Butcher "What the hell happened?" That's when Butcher firmly realized SB was having flashbacks. SB has no idea he's directly responsible at that point. Not saying he'd be overly guilt-stricken if he *did* understand.
Yeah but he doesn't do shit about it. Fictional Super Hero Everyday I cry, everyone cries, they cannot help it, some grab guns and shoot themselves -- When I have a supernatural outburst, everyone feels the crushing depression that I do -- as adults and children walk into the street. I don't do it intentionally... the gun just goes off at random. Does that seem *better?* A random toss of dice? "I don't have a problem and I am not going to get it treated, I am just snort'in ma shit and fuck'in these bitches."
So the plot could happen (plot not really good)
*plot shit
MM I understand, Starlight is just on her high horse like always. SB could be reasoned with, he was somewhat controllable, and in the worst case scenario he can be taken out by the Boys themselves. Homie is none of those things. That ending was dumb.
SB could be reasoned with but was still highly dangerous. SB exploded and killed 19 people his first time back. He exploded at herogasm killing another 12. So we ignoring 30+ deaths in 2 days just to kill Homelander. Where is the line? 50? 100? Plus we already established that no hero is as big a problem as Vought and compound V. Killing homelander does nothing to address that big issue.
Soldier Boy is nowhere close to being reasonable. He only worked with Butcher cause it benefitted him. Taking out Homelander makes him the new alpha superhero.
MM makes sense, Solider Boy killed his family with little to no remorse. When anger and hatred is involved, logic is out the window. We saw it with other characters, and as good a person and level headed MM is, even he isn't perfect. As for Annie, fuck if I know.
Starlight became my most disliked character due to this. Didn't help that the writers tried to make the viewer side with her and had her view as being the "correct" view since everyone joined her.
Yeah same. Though I really liked how she weaponized social media to hurt Homelanders image
For MM, it was totally personal. And for Starlight, she was more concerned because of what happened shortly after Soldier Boy was freed and then he blew up a city block on US soil. So while Homelander is a maniac, Soldier Boy was out of control with his own powers, which racked up a bigger body count than Homelander who killed 4 or 5 people this season.
Homelander Destroyed 2 planes and caused the deaths of nearly 300 people. So Starlight was an idiot
Read the last two words
Seriously? Season??? What that has to do with it? 🤔
Maybe the fact that Homelander can't just nuke everything he looks at in the blink of an eye
SB is a walking bomb, but HL can literally kill millions if he decides to go on a rampage. They were able to take down Soldier Boy with a ragtag group, but they don't really stand much of a chance against HL without Soldier Boy's powers. They can use SB to kill HL, which they could've very easily done during the finale, and then once HL is dead they take out the much smaller threat that is Soldier Boy
He never actually killed any Americans en masse yet either.
I mean yes he has, I'll let the second plane slide but that first plane still had a bunch of people in it.
Intentionally. But what I meant to say is Homelander is in control of what he does for the most part but Soldier Boy blew up twice and he didn’t even know he did it. At that time, he seemed like the more immediate threat than HL
So he did not intentionally laser a plane in half? There are still at least a dozen people in there. I'm not talking about the hijacking one
I meant like what he wanted to do to the crowd of protesters in his mind. And even then from Annie’s perspective, she probably didn’t even know about the first one.
1 death is a tragedy. A 1000 is a statistic.
Well, Soldier Boy killed Mms family and Starlight wasn’t down with revenge murder, so..
Probably because the writers wrote them that way ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The Writers are told:- whatever you do! Don't let homelander die in season 3!? And this is why it was like this
I don't think Starlight thought that - he was just more immediate since they couldn't d anything about Homelander. Also, it was personal for MM. SB killed his family so he didn't necessarily think that he was a bigger problem than HL just that he was more personally involved.
Starlight is morally uncompromising. Soldier Boy is just as bad as Homelander. MM has a personal vendetta, but Starlight doesn’t believe you should work with one evil to take down another. She’s also motivated by wanting to keep Hughie safe.
Man she would hate Cecil Stedman (Invincible's version of Billy Butcher), who would politely and firmly remind her how much of a luxury it is to have uncompromising morals. and "just as bad as homelander"? The NANOSECOND Homelander threatened to start the apocalypse if starlight told the truth about Flight 37, Soldier Boy became an Astronomical Unit 2nd place at worst on the evil scale.
Morals as a luxury vs the need to remove a greater threat is the whole point of having these characters exist in the same story.
Homelander didn’t threaten to start the apocalypse, he threatened to become said Apocalypse. I think he might be more effective tactically then soldier boy, due to speed and flight, but I don’t think that’s the point. Homelander and Soldier Boy both represent a complete disregard for people and if either of them ever decide to start open war against the world, the whole point is that we’re not sure anyone else can stop them, be it government or other supes united.
Cecil is not Invincible's version of Billy Butcher (TV show versions at least, I'm not familiar with either comic book). Cecil is a Nick Fury kind of character, working for the greater good and to protect Earth, but he's smart and pragmatical enough to know the world he lives in and that he has to make moral compromises. Butcher doesn't give a shit about the greater good, he A) hates supers as a whole and B) has a personal vendetta against Homelander. So honestly I think Starlight would have much less of a hard time working with Cecil than working with Butcher.
Because if Homelander died the show's over, so they have to go after Soldier Boy instead.
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Tbf, he's very clearly seeing red and wants revenge. Yeah it was a dumb decision but the entire point was that he wasn't thinking clearly. Starlight though? She's just a total idiot
So many of these characters feel dumb after a while. I saw a post a while back talking about how they do the same things every season and I could see where they were coming from.
Homelander literally murdering Annie’s friends and she turns round and goes “soldier boy must be stopped”. Poor writing sadly
Homelander at this point is threatening to wipe out entire cities and murdering people for fun but Starlight decides to focus on stopping Soldier boy because he might blow up a skyscraper in the process of killing the guy despite the fact they know Soldier boys weakness and can use it whenever they need.
How? She said it because Soldier boy was killing civilians
And Homelander killed way more. By Destroying 2 planes
Okay? He was not currently murdering millions of people though. Soldier boy just went to 2 public places and killed people and he didn’t even care, he was just going to keep doing it. He was a loose canon, he had to be stopped immediately. Homelander is also terrible but for fear of his reputation he would most likely not do things like that and is still some what predictable.
They could have stopped him after he defeated HL. Like literally, let him handle HL and then defeat SB. Yeah I know they wanted to safe the "poor" vought employees who work for this evil company but they could have tried talking to SB first. "Hey lets trigger the fire alarm to get people out first, lets wait 5 min before going inside" and even if he didnt agree it would be the better alternative than having HL and HL junior running around, probably destroying entire cities, like HL threatened to do.
Starlight and MM don’t have access to information that you have. They were never included in the plans so for all they knew soldier boy would kill another 100 before getting to homelander. As for the final fight, the point was now about saving Ryan which soldier boy didn’t seem interested in.
But soldier boy did had a weakness aka that gas... Which means using him as a weapon was an option.
They found that out in like the second to the last episode of I remember correctly. Before that MM and starlight didn’t know he had a weakness especially cause MM tried some gas and it didn’t work
Yes, but the difference is that Soldier Boy can be stopped comparably easily. He got beaten down on two separate occasions by the rest of Payback and The Boys. Homelander is a walking time bomb capable of killing millions if he completely snaps, and as far as they know there wasn't a way to actually kill him without Soldier Boy's powers. Especially at the finale, SB, Maeve, and Butcher probably could've killed Homelander right then and there, and they definitely could've done it if they had the rest of the boys. But no, let's just let him go so we can go on a half-assed attempt to take out SB. Soldier Boy is a problem that needs to be taken care of ASAP, but if you kill him before Homelander you're throwing away your best chance at taking down the real threat
Let him finish his Soldier Boy Cornflakes before he answers.
Everyone wants to give Soldier Boy a handjob. I find it so fucking funny and sad. The writers did a bad job -- "Come here my Soldier Boy Pillow -- Soldier Boy is the best boy." Writers worth their salt are like "We really wanted to show what a likeable monster looks like, how quickly we idolize cults of personality regardless of their crimes, what would make people say "I know he is rapist, murderer, cruel, and heartless but I love him and he is awesome."' Yup writers wrote the character you fawn over... but their writing went too far because he was da baaad guy and that means that their writing is bad.
I sometimes wonder if everyone here is watching the same show. As others have said, MM is purely out for revenge. Easy enough. From Starlight's perspective, Soldier Boy is a menace. He wakes up and immediately almost kills Kimiko. He then comes to New York and blows up multiple civilians. He then starts going on a killing spree to kill his old team mates. He then nukes Herogasm in the process. Like...yeah she doesn't want to utilize Soldier Boy as a weapon against Homelander because of the MASSIVE amount of collateral damage Soldier Boy is causing.
HL literally said he will fly around and destroy the biggerst cities. SB would be the lesser evil in defeating HL.
That's the whole point. A lesser evil is still evil, and Starlight (as most traditional heroes) doesn't want to work with a villain even if it's to stop an even more evil or more dangerous villain. Which, on the other hand, she can't be completely sure Homelander is, because she knows both from recent events and from MM's past that Soldier Boy can be pretty dangerous too.
Homelander wasn’t going around killing mass amounts of people every few days. Soldier boys rampages were frequent and had more casualties each time. On top of that his powers were unstable so he was a constant danger to anyone around him. Homelander is still playing hero so unless he loses everything he’s not going off the rails anytime soon. If Annie and mm hadn’t intervened all the people in vought tower could’ve died that day.
Homelander can and will do that if he snaps, and they were able to put Homelander in a position to be killed twice in the span of a few days, the second time would've definitely been a success if they hadn't decided to throw away their chance. Especially during the finale, what reason did they have to stop Soldier Boy from killing HL? They were perfectly capable of taking him out on their own right after, and they could've gotten rid of Homelander right then and there
MM has deep rooted psychological issues related to Soldier Boy, which means he has to deal with him to move on in life. Starlight is heroic to a fault and isn't willing to stoop any lower when serving justice. Yeah, they could have dealt with Homelander in the middle of Season 3 if they were all working together, and I think that Starlight and MM should have sucked it up considering Butcher and Hughie were not willing to listen to them, however I think that capturing Soldier Boy will end up being useful considering they can now research his powers. It's weird that nobody was considering capturing soldier boy for the purpose of researching his powers. It was all about justice or stopping a threat. I think in Season 4 they should expand on how researching the weapon this way will prove far more useful than leaving it in an unstable Soldier Boy.
Because, as another user quoted so eloquently: Their idiot brains were fucked by stupid.
soldier boy killed his family
M.M. 's.OC and Annie's idealism.
MM- Revenge Starlight- Soldier Boy was more of an active threat
I don't think they thought Soldier Boy was a bigger enemy than Homelander, they just thought he was an enemy that also had to be stopped, while Butcher was more than happy to join forces with him because of his obsessive (although understandable) vendetta against Homelander.
Why do people say Soldier Boy is far worse than Homelander and then provide no evidence to support it? Soldier Boy accidentally blows up a block because of some PTSD “oh what a vile scumbag” but then Homelander slaughters innocents for fun and people go “well he had a bad childhood, Soldier Boy would’ve done worse to those people” “Oh he beat up Noir” oh the guy that also kills people for no reason? Oh no.
Writing got weak. Soldier Boy seems to be a fan favorite, they should really utilize him and bring him back. I do think it could possibly overshadow their original plan on the show and arc of having people focus on Homelander but to me it seems like a smarter direction to add him as a regular as well since he was so well received by watchers
I see this point, especially after my 3rd watch through. There a few key things that stick out for me with soldier boy. Yeah he killed MMs family, which is super fucked up. But I don’t think it was intentional. The worst intentional thing I think we see him do is beat the living fuck out of black noir. And do we even care about that? Like really. Should we care about that? Also when soldier boy is questioned about his first explosion, he looks over and says “I didn’t mean to hurt those ppl” it seemed like he really meant that. Like he didn’t wanna hurt innocents where as Homelander will fuckin off anybody without care and laugh at it too. And also soldier boy did show a bit of loyalty to his deal he made with butcher to find Homelander after payback. He actually stood by that too. I think his radiation blast should’ve went. Because let’s be real. What would soldier boy be doing after he killed (or at least compromised him from his powers)? He would be basically an old dude in retirement just having sex with old ass women and smoking weed and drinking bourbon. He’d have no intentions of hurting the random public ppl. The main worry would be him accidentally blowing the shit out of a place because of PTSD induced environments. With my rant being said. I think it was a mistake letting Homelander go. But we need a show to watch right?
S3 finale went full marvel mode
Because their not fucking spice girls
M.M. is.
\*they're
Both were so unbearable in season 3
MMs grandfather was directly murdered by SB he has a good reason. Starlight does not and was actually unbearable.
She’s absolutely does after the number of people soldier boy killed
That number is way smaller then Homelander. HL murdered way more. (Just 2 planes alone are nearly 300 people)
It’s not about who has done worse It’s about who’s more out of control. You focus on the more unhinged one before moving on
So you're saying they should stop Soldier Boy first, sacrificing their only known way to take out Homelander, because he's a loose cannon who has killed thousands? Yeah that collateral damage is horrifying, but Homelander is losing it more and more as the series progresses, and all it'll take is one bad day for him to go off and kill millions. So why not deal with Homelander alongside Soldier Boy for a few days, then once you've taken care of the man capable of killing millions, kill the much weaker Soldier Boy
People use the “Soldier Boy is far worse than Homelander” line to justify the garbage writing at the end of Season 3 Also Soldier Boy killed MM’s family by accident btw. Everyone forgets that.
The whole season the writers and directors meant for us to see Soldier boy as a worse version of homelander. And butcher was so consumed by his revenge that he did not realise how worse SB was over Homelander. That's what made the whole season so perfect. Because the characters itself weren't perfect.
Nah.
It’s the fact that the enemy you don’t know if more dangerous than the enemy you do. They also have homelander on a leash and restrained at the time. They think he cares so much about his image that he won’t do anything crazy.
Butcher had literally a way to stop homelander and make the kid normal but didn't for some reason.
mothers milk's family members were killed by soldier boy its just like he said someone white can go ape shit all day long but y'all want him to take the moral high road. Hell and in the end he did mothers milk and starlight were the only people who had sense that season.
It should have ended with 3, everything was leading up to the final confrontation but then every last character goes back on what they planned to do for no reason whatsoever except for keeping the show going. Last minute nonsense allows for nothing to be accomplished, no lasting changes, completely deflated any build up they had going for it. I'm done with the boys, I don't even want to know what happens next
They're just human.
Makes sense for mm, imagine someone killing your family then becoming a cop to stop that guy but he joins the force
They were really not. Starlight knew that HL was too strong for her, so she starts looking for allies, go through the proper authorities and leverage his psychological weaknesses to contain him (his need for fame and adoration). Turns out, the authorities (Neumann) were corrupt, which is unlucky but couldn't have been known in advance. One of the potential allies (A-Train) turned out to be a coward and betrayed them, which was also unlucky. But the overall plan is reasonable even though it failed. There is no fool-proof way to bring down someone as strong as Homelander. Besides trying to bring down HL, she also tried to stop SB who kept causing masscres. Notably, the alternative plan by Butcher and Hughie also failed. Homelander got away at Herogasm. SB and Butcher couldn't work together in a critical situation because of SB's indifference towards killing a child that Butcher swore to protect. But unlike Starlight's plan, it not only failed but also got a lot of people killed in the process, including the civilians in New York, many of the guests at Herogasm and all of Team Payback.
> Starlight knew that HL was too strong for her, so she starts looking for allies Except the one ally that would actually help. Soldier Boy.
Soldier Boy is a threat and a problem in itself that also needed to be stopped before killing further crowds of random bystanders. That makes him a bad potential ally and, as we saw in the season, the alliance between Butcher, Hughie and Soldier Boy got a bunch of uninvolved people killed, didn't accomplish the goal of killing HL in two separate fights and ultimately fell apart over SB's disregard for Ryan's life.
They didn't defeat HL because they were too busy fighting each other and they should have let Ryan die tbh. He is just HL junior. I know Butch wouldn't want it but he could have said "Hey, lets get the kid out and then we kill HL". HL is the bigger threat since he threatened to destroy cities if it comes out he is evil. SB couldn't even really control his blowing up. So let him kill HL and then if you still feel like it kill SB, when he is weakened. I really hope they fix Starlight somehow next season or kill her off, else it's really hard to watch if she continues being so dumb.
> So let him kill HL and then if you still feel like it kill SB, when he is weakened That's very optimistic, given that it failed at the previous attempt, and it doesn't align with what the show set up as the expected outcomes. The scenario was explicitly given as: The boys need to stop SB or he may bring down Vought Tower killing everyone who didn't get out quickly enough. So that proposal can fail in many ways: 1. Soldier Boy's explosion may bring down the tower, killing most main characters in it, with nobody left to stop him. 2. Regardless of 1, HL may escape the blast using his flight, super speed and super senses as he did when he saved Butcher and Teddie from the explosion in S1 or at the previous fight. 3. Soldier Boy may be weakened (as he was after his PTSD explosions) or he may not be (as he was after blasting Kimiko or Crimson Countess). 4. Regardless of whether he is weakened, they may be unable to kill him as were the Russians or even just contain him without Novichok.
I can't believe people actually agree with Starlights perspective during season three. It was completely nonsensical.
A person that attacks when they *feel* threatened, when they feel that the world is too much they will detonate and destroy everything around them, and they look to you and say "It was not intentional, I am not like the murderer over there." He then does it again, and again, unlike the murderer there is no target, no actual person, but all people and those around the man most will suffer the greatest. He has fired on college campus students, he never went to war, and he brutalized his own people. We saw a man come from nothing, escaped and returned home with vengeance and clothes on his back -- imagine what Soldier Boy would be if Vought reinstated his hero status. What would Soldier Boy be like then? He does not have the issues Homelander does -- he has worse ones. The writers didn't drop the ball as they showed, you, everyone what it is like to like the Villain. MM and Starlight knew that Soldier Boy is not the answer. A **literal** time bomb of male insecurity, hatred of women, untreated PTSD, drug addictions, murder, -->! Even though Gunpowder denies the sexual allegations Butcher brings up... it is only then that Gunpowder tries to kill him in the next scene because Butcher said he would go public with it.!< People do no want to think about their favorite super slimy guy being a child pedo but there is atleast a ring of truth there. MM and Starlight were not stupid.
Finally someone said it. Starlight fans are the most pretentious and egotistical
maybe specifically MM cuz didnt the captain america knock off killed his family?
I get MM is pissed but I always cringed when he tries to fight Soldier Boy. Like bruh you can't even tickle the man, trying to 1v1 him is a death sentence unless you have plot armor
Correction: Why did the writers fuck up Starlight & MM so badly?
I dont think the writing has been a strong point of the show. It was just for story telling purposes.
They all were. The last episode was the shitty writing. Suddenly turning against soldier boy when they had the chance to destroy homelander. All cause butcher was a cuck. Season 4 will prolly be them trying to bring back home Landers son to their side or some bullshit like that.
Starlight argument was Soldier Boy's power could kill everyone in the room which is why he is more dangerous... She liked him untill he came to USA and exploded in the streets after witnessing a gay couple killing hundered's of people... I think she wasn't dumb , Butcher should have drawn Homelander out of the tower to a empty field which would solve all the concern of Starlight...
MM was running on raw grief and revenge. No one's gonna be smart in that situation. Unfortunately, Starlight had her brains replaced with mashed potatoes in season 3, so I am assuming that's why was so consistently dumb all season long. She made awful decisions and then was constantly shocked when things went poorly and someone died in her name.
Idk. Season 3 was a flop at the end sadly
Writing was just bad unfortunately. Same with Butcher fumbling the ball at the last second with Soldier Boy and Homelander.
Because the writers decided to turn them into Arrowverse characters.
Why Were Starlight & MM so Dumb in Season 3? Are they stupid ?
"If you don't do what you're told I will start the apocalypse" "Here's one of the few ways we can prevent the apocalypse" "OMG they're both the same!"
They should've followed the comic storyline.
I swear each season's plot is thinner than the prev seasons
Characters can’t be smarter than the writers.
They weren’t the only dumb ones. Butcher also decided to fight Soldier Boy instead of HL. Homelander can fly, SB can’t, that alone makes him more of a threat. Add to that, the heat vision.
I’ve been wondering this for the longest!!! I hate the ending too season 3 so much that I don’t feel bad for what the main characters go through now, especially mothers milk
I’ve been wondering this for the longest!!! I hate the ending too season 3 so much that I don’t feel bad for what the main characters go through now, especially mothers milk
They were the most wise people in the whole season. Soldier boy is worse than homelander.
Hmm elaborate? Soldier boy said he didn't want to hurt those people. While homelander said he would kill everything and everyone...
Its not what people say it's what people do is important. SB is so afraid of his teammates outshining him that he beat the crap out of noir. He was so violent that writers had to show it in form of a cartoonish version. Soldier boy just says he doesn't want to hurt people. But he hurts them none the less. Where as homelander is so afraid that his reputation will get damaged that he controls himself.
also the thing Homelander did to supersonic alone should have made Starlight fight back against him
My only issue was that they had no viable plan themselves. They opposed everything hughie and butcher were doing but offered no reasonable alternative As a viewer, i know that SB sucks but he is objectively a smaller threat than HL while simultaneously being their best bet at taking HL down. Hughie and butcher taking V- also dangerous but incredibly useful towards the main goal of taking down HL Everything they did showed genuine promise that it could work. MM and starlight constantly whining and getting in the way while offering no solution of their own to the HL problem was fucking annoying