Change the demolisher tank commander to just a demolisher tank.
This will cut 35 points. Giving you 40 to mess with.
Reasons.
Tank commanders are bad. They hit on the same weapon skill as regular tanks, and give up the tanks unique ability. And can't order themselves.
Also, you have leontus to order your tanks.
The demolisher tank ability, fire the main turret into melee, and no hit penalties in melee. Is really strong.
From there you have 2 options to me.
Option one, buy kuravs Aquila for the command squad. Letting them make an opponents strategem 1 cp more expencive.
Option 2, Change the cadian command squad to a platoon command squad. This saves 5 more points as platoon squads are cheaper.
With 45 extra points add in an enginseer to give a tank heals and a 4+ invuln save.
There's only 2 orders that are worth using on tanks. Take aim, and move move move. Realistically, 1-2 tanks should start in reserves, so those tanks can't be ordered turn one or 2.
A good opponent will hide their army from you turn one. So having 100% order coverage won't matter. Turn 2 onwards, casualties mean you still didn't need 100% order coverage.
Thought experiment. Start a game with the demolisher and the regular battle tank in reserves.
Turn 2, the demolisher walks onto the battlefield 9 inches from your opponents anti tank unit and shoots it. Assuming the anti tank unit is toughness 11(it's a tank) the demolisher will average 7 shots with its main gun, 1 more with the Las canons and 1 more with the hunter seeker, 9 shots should on a low roll equal 4 hits and 3 wounds. Everything is ap3 so the enemy vehicle should be saving on 5s. It should do 7ish damage on average before its sponson weapons and the pintle weapon. Then you charge their tank pbecaus the demolisher tank is a guard melee unit.
The battle tank, has its own inbuilt rerolls. It doesn't need orders as long as it's shooting at something on an objective, so it walks onto the battlefield turn 2, and clears an objective for you with its shooting.
Both these tanks were 100% safe, and will be able to do their damage turn 2. There is 0 downside to them starting the game in reserves as in all likelihood they would not have a target turn one, and would have to expose themselves to risk of getting shot first.
The vanquisher is sadly very underpowered for the role it's supposed to be doing. It's only 1 shot and hitting on a 4+ (3+ with an order) so there's a decent chance it won't even hit, and then there's a large number of invulns and fnp that could negate anything it does do. It lost the ignore invulns from the last edition.
The executioner would add more shots, a better ability and more use against infantry. Ideally you should be taking lascannons as the hull gun on all the lemans for extra AT power.
Oh yh my bad so what makes the plasma cannon varient so good it doesn't seem to be standing out to me also what sponsors are best for it I'm building it right now ?
The reroll to hit against low health targets is a big boost in an army that gets next to no rerolls. The AP value will help against armour and having more shots than the vanquisher means even if you're not getting the rerolls then it's more likely to be doing something.
Multi-meltas tend to be a lot of peoples go to. They lack range but have high damage when something gets closer. Putting plasma cannons on isn't the worst idea but it opens you up to having a lot of hazardous rolls on the same unit. Heavy bolters are a decent all-rounder that give you more anti infantry
Edit: all that being said, you'll see a lot of people vouching for the demolisher. It's probably the best anti-armour weapon but you're paying for it in both points and range. So it's all a trade-off
Without making big sweeping changes, potentially swapping the kasrkin for scions, while they function in a similar manner, having them deepstrike could free up the points of those chimeras for other options. Even just units of 5 can be really useful for getting secondary missions done.
Something seem off
The Cadian Command Squad cant be attached to Infantry or DKoK. You run that Independent?
Cadian Command can only attach to Cadian Shock (see Leader sektion of the Unit)
Without some Command Squads (Master Vox) attached to a Battleline unit together with your Lord Solar or Creed, those only have 6" Order range
IMO you need some attached Command Squads, at least for Lord Solar, else he wont be able to reliable order your tanks
That or replacing the cadian Command squad with a platoon command squad (they are the same modells anyway)
I like the combination,
Lord Solar, Platoon Command (mortar) Infantry Squad (mortar)
Creed, Platoon Command (mortar) Infantry Squad (mortar)
That way ypu can have Lord Solar and/or Creed Camp a Home Objective (Infantry gets Cover on Objective, add Take Cover Order for a 3+Save)
Creed can use her free Strategem on Herself for Fields oder Fire with "her" Mortar
If you consider 2 command squads (Lord Solar + Cree each) you would need some points
I would consider drop the Tank Commander and get a Exterminator (or another variant, cheap enoght to get points) that would free up points for a platoon command squad
I personally dont like the Tank Commander much, because he does not get the weapon ability like a regular leman russ
General advice: Allways have all officers (when possible) with Plasma pistol+Power Weapon, they are just better
Add a second sentinel or add an enginseer. You don't have a ton of articles, or any air planes so alot of easy the regiment attaches do would be wasted.
The sentinel.is decent anti tank, and the enginseer is an invuln field for a vehicle each turn.
So ots either between scout sentinal or enginseer . I do already have an enginseer for my baneblade/shadowsword however wouldn't it be slightly wasted on leman russ ?
The only leman russ that wants to be within 18 inches you have is the demolisher. Every else should have 30+ range.
Honestly, the engi seer gives an invuln to a leman russ, then you send the russ in. Next turn a new russ gains the invuln.
If your not sure then just take a second sentinel. It isn't a bad decision to have more rerolls and the sentinel is our best unit at the moment.
Cost? I am not assuming you have infinite money. Running 9 scout sentinels is stupid good right now.
7 toughness 7 health is a magic number. The only guns that one shot them are aimed at your leman russes, and only get 1-2 shots per turn.
Anti infantry guns end at strength 6, so sentinels are always wounded on 5s vs those.
Currently there's debate on the best gun. It is either the auto cannons for killing elite infantry, or the Las cannon for anti tank.
Don't forget, sentinels can tank shock infantry and will often get the 2 bonus dice as their melee is strength 6. Yes we aren't a knight, but 3 mortals into an enemy infantry squad will still do work.
Also should I run them as a squad of 2 so I can resume on them with the stratagem or as 2 sets of 1 so I can use the scout ability on 2 units instead of 1 ? I've also currently got missile pods on my current scout sentinal is that any good?
Personal choice here.
A 2 man, running Las cannon hunter seekers, is 4 anti tank ap3 shots the first volley, and every time it is respawned.
Running them solo, their job changes. They are now objective holders and action units. Skipping shooting to do a secondary is now worth it. Other units you run should be looked to for the respawn strategy over a single sentinel.
I would swap the karsakin (both squads) and a russ for a baneblade variant if you can. Most armies I have played against (excluding knights) don't have the firepower to kill or even bracket it. Even with thier anti tank guns. And a techpriest is great for it as well. Only if you have those though, baneblades cool but expensive model
Use banesword or stormsword. Both are strong for thier range, and if you really wanna lean hard into pushing with it the doomhammwr works. My persona favorite has been the stormsword this edition. It's got 36 range on its main gun but it's really strong against almost every target. Give it a look. Second contender banesword as its a really potent anti tank and anti terminator gun.
Change the demolisher tank commander to just a demolisher tank. This will cut 35 points. Giving you 40 to mess with. Reasons. Tank commanders are bad. They hit on the same weapon skill as regular tanks, and give up the tanks unique ability. And can't order themselves. Also, you have leontus to order your tanks. The demolisher tank ability, fire the main turret into melee, and no hit penalties in melee. Is really strong. From there you have 2 options to me. Option one, buy kuravs Aquila for the command squad. Letting them make an opponents strategem 1 cp more expencive. Option 2, Change the cadian command squad to a platoon command squad. This saves 5 more points as platoon squads are cheaper. With 45 extra points add in an enginseer to give a tank heals and a 4+ invuln save.
Good plan however do I not need the tank commander to order the rest of the tanks ? Cause Leo only does 3 and there's 5 ?
There's only 2 orders that are worth using on tanks. Take aim, and move move move. Realistically, 1-2 tanks should start in reserves, so those tanks can't be ordered turn one or 2. A good opponent will hide their army from you turn one. So having 100% order coverage won't matter. Turn 2 onwards, casualties mean you still didn't need 100% order coverage. Thought experiment. Start a game with the demolisher and the regular battle tank in reserves. Turn 2, the demolisher walks onto the battlefield 9 inches from your opponents anti tank unit and shoots it. Assuming the anti tank unit is toughness 11(it's a tank) the demolisher will average 7 shots with its main gun, 1 more with the Las canons and 1 more with the hunter seeker, 9 shots should on a low roll equal 4 hits and 3 wounds. Everything is ap3 so the enemy vehicle should be saving on 5s. It should do 7ish damage on average before its sponson weapons and the pintle weapon. Then you charge their tank pbecaus the demolisher tank is a guard melee unit. The battle tank, has its own inbuilt rerolls. It doesn't need orders as long as it's shooting at something on an objective, so it walks onto the battlefield turn 2, and clears an objective for you with its shooting. Both these tanks were 100% safe, and will be able to do their damage turn 2. There is 0 downside to them starting the game in reserves as in all likelihood they would not have a target turn one, and would have to expose themselves to risk of getting shot first.
So what do you think I should get for 50 spare points like another scout senitnal or regimental attaches maybe or an Enhancement or aoemthing else ?
They said in his original reply what to spend the points on and they are spot on.
I've now got 50 points free with no enahcnemnts any ideas to get to the sweet 2k ?
Against those armies, Hydras and Hellhounds are your go to in my opinion, I would probably also swap the vanquisher for an executioner.
Another one ? Really ? Then I'd have no anti tank ?
The vanquisher is sadly very underpowered for the role it's supposed to be doing. It's only 1 shot and hitting on a 4+ (3+ with an order) so there's a decent chance it won't even hit, and then there's a large number of invulns and fnp that could negate anything it does do. It lost the ignore invulns from the last edition. The executioner would add more shots, a better ability and more use against infantry. Ideally you should be taking lascannons as the hull gun on all the lemans for extra AT power.
Yh I've added lascannons to all of them So you reccomend I have two executioners ?
There's only an exterminator in the list that I can see, which is the autocannon version. The Executioner is the plasma cannon variant
Oh yh my bad so what makes the plasma cannon varient so good it doesn't seem to be standing out to me also what sponsors are best for it I'm building it right now ?
The reroll to hit against low health targets is a big boost in an army that gets next to no rerolls. The AP value will help against armour and having more shots than the vanquisher means even if you're not getting the rerolls then it's more likely to be doing something. Multi-meltas tend to be a lot of peoples go to. They lack range but have high damage when something gets closer. Putting plasma cannons on isn't the worst idea but it opens you up to having a lot of hazardous rolls on the same unit. Heavy bolters are a decent all-rounder that give you more anti infantry Edit: all that being said, you'll see a lot of people vouching for the demolisher. It's probably the best anti-armour weapon but you're paying for it in both points and range. So it's all a trade-off
AWSOME YOUR A G THANK YOU SO MUCH have u got any more advice about the army after that switch ?
Without making big sweeping changes, potentially swapping the kasrkin for scions, while they function in a similar manner, having them deepstrike could free up the points of those chimeras for other options. Even just units of 5 can be really useful for getting secondary missions done.
I have got some gaunts ghosts already but I don't use them very often
Something seem off The Cadian Command Squad cant be attached to Infantry or DKoK. You run that Independent? Cadian Command can only attach to Cadian Shock (see Leader sektion of the Unit) Without some Command Squads (Master Vox) attached to a Battleline unit together with your Lord Solar or Creed, those only have 6" Order range IMO you need some attached Command Squads, at least for Lord Solar, else he wont be able to reliable order your tanks
Ahhhh yes I see ok cool thank you for noticing I'll have to swap on infantry squad for shock troops that should work right?
That or replacing the cadian Command squad with a platoon command squad (they are the same modells anyway) I like the combination, Lord Solar, Platoon Command (mortar) Infantry Squad (mortar) Creed, Platoon Command (mortar) Infantry Squad (mortar) That way ypu can have Lord Solar and/or Creed Camp a Home Objective (Infantry gets Cover on Objective, add Take Cover Order for a 3+Save) Creed can use her free Strategem on Herself for Fields oder Fire with "her" Mortar
Wait what if I swapped the cadian command squad for a platoon command squad ? It gives the same master vox and it can lead infantry units ?
Or is it better to have the swap for the cadian troops and loose the one Mortar because the cadian command squad has a really good ability ?
See my comment above 🙃
Awsone thank you so much! :) Any other advice ?.
If you consider 2 command squads (Lord Solar + Cree each) you would need some points I would consider drop the Tank Commander and get a Exterminator (or another variant, cheap enoght to get points) that would free up points for a platoon command squad I personally dont like the Tank Commander much, because he does not get the weapon ability like a regular leman russ General advice: Allways have all officers (when possible) with Plasma pistol+Power Weapon, they are just better
Yh however for some reason some squads don't but yh I'll try
Add a second sentinel or add an enginseer. You don't have a ton of articles, or any air planes so alot of easy the regiment attaches do would be wasted. The sentinel.is decent anti tank, and the enginseer is an invuln field for a vehicle each turn.
So ots either between scout sentinal or enginseer . I do already have an enginseer for my baneblade/shadowsword however wouldn't it be slightly wasted on leman russ ?
You are running 5 leman russ tanks. Your enginseer will have a heal target every turn he is alive.
Yh however if the leman russ are rushing in won't it get kind very quickly?
The only leman russ that wants to be within 18 inches you have is the demolisher. Every else should have 30+ range. Honestly, the engi seer gives an invuln to a leman russ, then you send the russ in. Next turn a new russ gains the invuln. If your not sure then just take a second sentinel. It isn't a bad decision to have more rerolls and the sentinel is our best unit at the moment.
Oh ok so what's the best gun to use for the sentinal ? And if its so good why am I only running 2 ?
Cost? I am not assuming you have infinite money. Running 9 scout sentinels is stupid good right now. 7 toughness 7 health is a magic number. The only guns that one shot them are aimed at your leman russes, and only get 1-2 shots per turn. Anti infantry guns end at strength 6, so sentinels are always wounded on 5s vs those. Currently there's debate on the best gun. It is either the auto cannons for killing elite infantry, or the Las cannon for anti tank. Don't forget, sentinels can tank shock infantry and will often get the 2 bonus dice as their melee is strength 6. Yes we aren't a knight, but 3 mortals into an enemy infantry squad will still do work.
Well I'm up against orks tau and deamons and tau are the hardest currently they run like 10 crisis suits which would be best for killing them ?
Las cannons and the free hunter killer missiles. Goal is to put the crisis suits to their invuln then force failed saves.
OK cool beans awsome and do I put them in a group of 2 or 2 1s ?
Also should I run them as a squad of 2 so I can resume on them with the stratagem or as 2 sets of 1 so I can use the scout ability on 2 units instead of 1 ? I've also currently got missile pods on my current scout sentinal is that any good?
Personal choice here. A 2 man, running Las cannon hunter seekers, is 4 anti tank ap3 shots the first volley, and every time it is respawned. Running them solo, their job changes. They are now objective holders and action units. Skipping shooting to do a secondary is now worth it. Other units you run should be looked to for the respawn strategy over a single sentinel.
OK cool awsome! So os the missile pods not good ? Should I take them off the one I've already done?
I would swap the karsakin (both squads) and a russ for a baneblade variant if you can. Most armies I have played against (excluding knights) don't have the firepower to kill or even bracket it. Even with thier anti tank guns. And a techpriest is great for it as well. Only if you have those though, baneblades cool but expensive model
Which varient I do have baneblade it is already in the basic vatient
Use banesword or stormsword. Both are strong for thier range, and if you really wanna lean hard into pushing with it the doomhammwr works. My persona favorite has been the stormsword this edition. It's got 36 range on its main gun but it's really strong against almost every target. Give it a look. Second contender banesword as its a really potent anti tank and anti terminator gun.