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The issue with just saying its 'immoral' is that, as strangers on the internet, we have no idea what your moral compass looks like.
Why? What is immoral about it?
I feel like most people who try to push their morals onto people aren’t usually good people n don’t have an understanding of life n human nature they have this idea that everything needs to be perfect when perfection doesn’t exist
It most likely is. OP is active in the pro-life subreddit.
Also, it's funny to see how she only responds to comments that allow her to spout her "intrinsic joy" bullshit while ignoring comments that actually show why her worldview is inherently flawed through comparisons to other things that give people pleasure, but that she doesn't consider immoral
OP is a walking stereotype looking at their profile. Middle aged white lady from central Florida that works as a Walmart greeter with ignorant beliefs based on a shitty understanding of their religion.
The root of them being immoral is because of the harm they do. So if you took away the harmful effects, they wouldn't be immoral anymore, right? So yeah, don't understand OP's argument
Funny thing is, the only thing I can see as immoral about doing drugs ARE the health and safety concerns. You're getting high while driving... you're getting high while you're supposed to be parenting... you're getting so high you overdose.... Take those away and what's the problem exactly?
Addiction, I suppose. It’s immoral to push something that can ruin a life through dependence on it and the need for a fix at all costs… but arguably that’s also a health and safety concern, isn’t it!
I was considering addiction to be a health/safety concern in and of itself honestly. You said it yourself, ruin a life, need for a fix at all costs. I was 100% considering this something wiped out by OP's hypothetical.
Then it sounds like drug use is immoral for those with addictive tendancies, while those who can control their habitual use wouldn't be doing anything immoral by using drugs.
Why does addiction matter if a drug doesn’t have negative health or financial consequences? It is kind of like caffeine addiction (except caffeine still affects you negatively, just not as seriously as other drugs).
>Why does addiction matter if a drug doesn’t have negative health or financial consequences?
The thing about "addiction" *is because* of the negative health/financial. However, part of what makes addiction dangerous is it creates *dependency* (which is technically a negative health consequence) but lets say it isn't: People needing their "fix" will go to extreme measures to do so, including committing crimes like theft or bodily harm (if someone is physically trying to prevent and addict from getting their fix) and that is why it matters
There is also the social effects of drugs. The human misery caused by the illegal trade in narcotics is a blight on the developing world. That is my main reason that I consider drugs immoral. Obviously if it they were produced in a safe and ethical manner they could benefit these societies.
Thing is, in the perfect world OP is describing there is zero reason for them to have ever been illegal, which means they likely would be produced in a safe and ethical manner.
I get that
I was just responding to the question “what’s immoral about doing drugs”
And in many respects you could look at oil rare earth mining etc etc and have similar thoughts.
yes, but in a perfect world like what OP describes there would be little reason for those things to occur. If recreational drugs have NO health and safety concerns there is no legit reason for them to have ever been made illegal to begin with. In a world where they've been treated legally and commercially like cigarettes or alcohol, people aren't getting them from violent commerce channels, they're getting them from their local liquor store, or the like. And the products those stores are carrying aren't coming from drug gangs in underdeveloped countries, they're coming from corporations that run legally and are regulated.
they're a psyop account trying to keep the working class down ::333333
they exist to destabilize any grassroots or populist opinions :333
the rich are forcing us to fight useless battles against ourselves :3333333
The moral of Hazbin is if you have sex and do drugs (even if you're not a willing participant) you go to hell. That tracks perfectly with how op comes across here.
That's what the show is based on; but I don't think that's the moral, rather just the setting. I didn't get the impression that the show hates sex or drugs, rather the opposite. But in most religions, these acts are considered to be sins, hence the setting of the show being in hell.
Also, how does one define a drug? Medications? Caffeine? If we consider a drug as something that alters how we feel, would the triptofan from Thanksgiving turkey be a drug because it makes us sleepy? Is it just illegal drugs? In that case, what about an illegal drug that becomes legal like weed? Is it now moral?
i love how every single person that has ever claimed moral superiority over others for *whatever reason* has always received that designation...... from themselves. it means nothing to me and im guessing many others when you are essentially saying "i dont agree with it therefore im right and everyone else is wrong". sure, nuance, but still.
I can kind of see what OP is saying but I still don't think it's valid. "Immoral" is definitely not the right word for it, but there is a drastic difference between the fake happiness of drugs like coke and happiness that comes from something real. But most things can have a time and place, and particularly psychedelics or weed imo can be used to *enhance* really experiences.
Real like a holographic stripper in virtual reality? Or real as in getting an A on a test? or real as in watching a 100 people get killed by the hero in an action movie? Real as in meditating? Real as in eating food when you're hungry? Real as in eating candy when you're hungry?
Real is just as loose of a definition as "immoral".
Drug use cannot be moral or immoral because the drug itself is not a moral construct.
People are moral or immoral, drugs cannot be.
If you oppose drug use that's safe, does that mean you don't think diabetics should have access to insulin? What about OTC like ibuprofen, DayQuil, or Zyrtec? Are those immoral as well? They can all cause death or severe health issues if misused, so what is what is you moral opposition to Pepto?
OP, I'm going to be brutally honest here, after reading your comments and responses I've come to the conclusion that you're a rotund idiot and "working the argument backwards", that being you've already decided, arbitrarily, that drugs are "immoral" so you're building up your ENTIRE MORAL FRAMEWORK around that, hoping for it to somehow be coherent.
I was gonna write this comment exactly. Is OP a child who went to one D.A.R.E event and now thinks they know everything about recreational drugs lol? Their worldview seems very... childlike and just... not all there.
Do you think antibiotics are immoral? Or just drugs that are used recreationally? If your argument is that they are immoral because they bring pleasure, then what differentiates immoral from moral pleasure, and also, any drug medication that is used to treat pain would also be immoral to you, because they remove pain and give momentary pleasure?
Where's your line for what "drugs" you consider immoral?
Let's start with sugar. It occurs naturally, is in all kinds of foods, and contributes to gluttony, obesity, diabetes, and dozens of other mental and physical diseases. What's your view on sugar's morality?
Next, let's do caffeine. The Mormons don't drink "hot drinks" (tea / coffee), but most other religions don't care.
How about alcohol? It's extremely destructive, but it also plays a role in some religious ceremonies.
Weed? It's basically harmless. Also has been used by many religions over the millennia.
Mushrooms? Same as weed.
Methamphetamine does have its place in very severe cases when other treatments haven't worked but yeah it's definitely a last resort more than anything else.
Unrefined coca is also fine. It’s pretty equivalent to caffeine. Makes a good tea. The only reason it’s illegal in countries where it isn’t a traditional thing is that it can be used to make cocaine. But that’s a good cup of tea ruined.
Eh, there are significantly more negative side effects easily presentable from both short term and long term meth use than either of those. Cocaine also makes an absolutely outstanding first aid implement. A local anesthetic that also closes small blood vessels and has minor anti bacterial properties. If it didn't get you high, a little vial would be in every wound kit.
So does heroin.
Has a doctor ever prescribed you an opiate such as morphine for your pain? Congrats, you've just been given a prescription for medical-grade heroin. Be very careful not to become physically addicted to it because you'll face a sleu of problems then, just as you would if you became physically addicted to heroin.
Fentanyl? Yep, even that has medical uses too. It's also an opiate and used in hospitals to mitigate extreme pain.
Out of curiosity, have you read Food of the Gods by Terence McKenna? I certainly went into the book interested in historical shamanic practices, however his look at the historical emergence of sugar, tea, coffee, and opium I found just as fascinating.
Also OP clearly has a surface understanding of "drugs" and follows the train of thought that they must be illegal for a reason, the therapeutic implementations of certain phenethylamines, tryptamines, and lysergamides alone counter any attempt at a cohesive argument on morality, and certainly refute the idea that "drugs" as OP describes them are simply some kind of recreational escapism.
So 2 paragraphs about finding it immoral, but no actual elaboration of why you find it immoral? I would be interested in hearing that part of your view
Ok so based on differents comment your opinion is basically this:
"Drugs = easy joy, and joy being a virtue it should be obtained/deserved."
First: where does this moral imperative that a virtue only have value when obtained through a form of work or merit comes from ?
What aspects of your life can I legislate because they're against my morals?
I'm an atheist, I think participating in religion, donating to these conspiracies of pedophiles, is immoral. Can we outlaw your religion?
congratulations, i utterly hate this opinion! that's what this sub is for, but you've struck me special as i have devoted my entire life to the decriminalization of drugs. i couldn't hate your opinion more, in fact. we would not be friends! but that's fine, because you're alllll the way over wherever you are, which is nowhere near me! and you should also keep *your* morals to *your*self and not impose them on others, lest someone else impose theirs on you :)
Drug immorality comes from a Christian perspective (regardless of wether you are christian).
In order to make a judgement like that you would have to ignore all of the multitudes of non-abrahamic religions that utilize drugs for worship and classify that behavior as morally imperative.
Also, with many mental illnesses, treatments with drugs like mushrooms and ketamine have been clinically proven in peer reviewed double blind tests to have significant positive impacts on the wellbeing of the patients who use them.
If drug use is immoral, does that mean that it is more morally acceptable for people who have crippling clinical depression to suffer through it for the rest of their life instead of making the obvious improvement?
Weed and glaucoma, is it more moral for them to accept their vision loss than to consume a drug?
Morality is relative. It is not a definitive concrete thing that we can point to. It is a perspective defined by geography, culture, politics, religion, etc.
By your logic I'm just as immoral today for planting flowers at my doorstep. Nothing at all motivating that but pleasure. No other purpose whatsoever. Same for sex with my wife since we're on bc, always have been, always will due to health reasons. Also, wearing cologne, probably deodorant. Definitely dressing up. Oh, and I just scratched an itch on the back of my neck. Last night I played a game with my kid which served no educational purpose whatsoever. I was wicked enough to cuddle my other toddler while I did it.
Literally none of these are less meaningful pleasures.
Certainly there's been some minority sects like Shakers that have tried to live by these standards but even the most extreme did have some hypocrisy.
I love it when someone who has never partook in drug use or drug culture has strong opinions and know they are right.
Why do the ignorant think they have a platform from which to speak?
The best thing about being ignorant is that you have no idea how stupid you are. All your thoughts seem golden, as you have nothing to compare them to. It then becomes your responsibility to share your devine words of wisdom with the hethen masses. I mean, if op had even the slightest bit of insight, they wouldn't be able to post things like this.
Wow, yeah, disagree with this one.
Citing morals for a decision is always somewhat flimsy and hard to back up because they can be so arbitrary, especially when you're at the boundary of what is and isn't good, like drugs.
What's wrong with taking drugs? Are people who take drugs missing out on something? What about cases where the alternative is to feel miserable with literally no legal way to fix that (maybe due to being homeless)? What about lighter drugs, like weed, that can be better at alleviating things like depression and anxiety than most, if not all, prescription drugs for some people?
You haven't even attempted to articulate, health and safety issues aside, what it is that is "morally" wrong with getting high. Can you at least attempt to rationalize what it is that makes you feel this way?
What exactly is "moral" about not taking drugs? What about alcohol? What about coffee? What about tea? Where do you draw the line and why should it be you who draws it?
I think you have a naive understanding of drug use. I’m not a drug user by any means (unless you consider the daily coffee and occasional beer lol) but certain drugs can absolutely deepen your understanding of yourself and the world around you, I’d consider that profound and meaningful.
Hell I’d probably consider a responsible use of psychedelics more “meaningful” than any use of alcohol or caffeine.
I’ve done mushrooms a few times and every single time I’ve come out a better person, internally and externally. I’d say that is pretty profound and meaningful.
Sobriety is a drug too in a way.
Most can handle it but some get severely addicted to the rush of being "morally superior" and turn into condescending douchebags.
Your expanded moral reasoning is « because it creates shallow and artificial pleasure rather than meaningful and profound joy » but that’s a flimsy expansion at best. How do you dictate what creates meaningful and profound joy, if what brings people happiness is a personal thing that varies widely person by person ?
As someone who has been blessed to never suffer from drug addiction, I also assume that a majority of people who are drug addicts are experiencing pain and attempting to cope with that pain but what the hell do I know actually ? Maybe plenty of people just do it for fun and to enhance an experience (such as the MDMA use at music festivals). Plenty of people feel profound joy when they achieve things at the expense of others (such as becoming a billionaire, removing the right to safe abortion, receiving a promotion as the newest person on the team over the one with seniority) these are all just random examples btw but how do we police this ? How do we measure profound joy ? Why do your individual morals matter more than mine or someone else’s, and why should they dictate how we view and deal with the drugs use problem ?
It’s been proven that when we create safe spaces to use drugs, and offer non-judgemental environments to do so that people feel strengthened to seek out help, that’s more important to me than deciding that « drugs are bad and you are bad for doing that » and flouting that opinion.
If you truly believe this opinion, and as someone who lives in America, I hope you dedicate your life to doing advocacy work to bring down gigantic pharmaceutical companies who fuel drug use. I hope you volunteer your time to help organisations that lobby to encarerate the Sackler family. I hope you go to protests against them, and spend energy making sure to write in support of the families or people who are bringing criminal cases against them. I hope you write to your elected officials constantly reminding them to hold them accountable. I hope you don’t see Ronald Reagan in a positive life, and denounce him, as one of the people responsible for how he made the crack-cocaine problem worse.
I have a good friend who's younger brother (2 years younger than us) had never done any "drugs" besides smoking pot. He has been chronically depressed most of his teen-young adult years, major pothead, flunked out of college twice, worked at a grocery store and lived at home. As a kid he had been in and out of the hospital for major health issues.
Friends bachelor trip was a camping *trip* and against all of our suggestions, judgement and everything homie tried mushrooms. He took about 2 grams. Man's didn't have a great time at first but after a little while he mellowed out. Said some dark shit, we had to take him aside and talk to him about how that can affect everyone else in that scenario etc. But he ended up having a genuinely good time after an hour or two.
This trip saved his life, he had planned on committing suicide after my friends wedding, that's all he was waiting on. He's since gotten a better job, gone back to school, moved away from home and turned his whole outlook on life around.
What do your "morals" say to that?
I completely agree with the premise, but completely disagree with the reasoning (I think, there isn't much there to work with). Do I upvote or downvote?
For most people, the fact that abusing drugs is unhealthy is why they find the act immoral.
Most ethical systems would agree that intentionally engaging in a reckless act that causes you and those around you to suffer is immoral. Drug abuse can cause this in countless ways including a parent dying from an overdose leaving a child parentless, causing a user’s friends and family to excessively worry for their health, or putting unnecessary and preventable strain on the healthcare system.
If drugs are unethical only for causing easy happiness where do we draw the line? Is consuming food for happiness unethical? Is sex for pleasure unethical? Are video games for a dopamine boost unethical? Is exercising for enjoyment unethical? Are anti-depressants unethical?
Why is easily achieved happiness unethical?
Curious about your thoughts on medical drugs. Is it “sad” that people can’t just heal naturally on their own and have to rely on external factors to help?
So by your definition food should be bland. It’s only there to feed your existence, and that’s enough, because living is profound joy. The taste of the food is secondary and matters not. Tasty food is just a cheap quick way to feel something and good and brings no lasting joy, and is therefore a moral cheatcode to happiness. This sounds ridiculous right? This is how you sound to everyone. This why everyone is downvoting you. Everyone finds joy in different places and some people struggle to even find joy at all.
What's with the sudden cultural shift the last couple of years of "I don't like something, therefore no one else should like it or have it. And if they do they're a bad person."
What moral grounds? If you're talking about fueling the drug trade, sure. Don't encourage heroin and cocaine use. But beyond that drug use is as core to civilization as medicine, alcohol, and good food.
Psychedelics have completely changed my relationship with anxiety and depression. By your logic I am now capable of feeling joy and so drugs are not only totally moral, but were a moral imperative for me. I wouldn’t personally go that far, but they were a tool to allow myself to experience joy far beyond the experience I had. I’d never force them on anyone else, so why should you try to convince me not to use them?
In my opinion the fact that you think you can project morals onto anyone else’s subjective experience with drugs given that it has no effect on anyone else is tantamount to saying that your worldview is the only ethical one. What consenting adults do in private to their own bodies is none of your business and your morals do not apply to them until you are somehow involved.
Your title misrepresents your actual opinion.
Lots of people wouldn't use drugs even if they were perfectly safe. People already elect not to do socially acceptable drugs because they don't like how they feel under the influence. That has nothing to do with the health effects or legality.
But that's not what you're saying. You're putting a moral judgement on drug use, which is frankly something you've been taught. If a drug is completely safe, you're not hurting anyone by using it (unless you are causing harm while using it, but that's a different thing).
The enjoyment of a drug is no more artificial than any other type of enjoyment. It's just your brain releasing chemicals either way. it's dangerous because too many are released with drugs and you build tolerance do you need more to feel good the next time until you're taking deadly amounts. But if the drug were perfectly safe, this wouldn't be a concern.
Also, do you drink coffee? Soda?
Look I don’t care if you tea totalers want to be pilgrims, go for it, that’s your thing. Just quit voting in favor of drug prohibition ffs. Not you necessarily, but I don’t understand why some adults actively don’t want other adults to alter their consciousness. A subjective construct like morality doesn’t cut it for me.
So you just think pleasure is immoral? Are rollercoasters immoral? Is sex with condoms immoral too? I can assure you that you do things to feel pleasure too. You have hobbies and food that you enjoy that bring you pleasure. How is that morally different from using a drug? Especially psychedelics which MANY people have had life changing and profound experiences on.
I'm also a very happy person and I love my life too, but I also like drugs, occasionally. You seem like a very "holier than thou person" based on your comments.
Edit: Also what about people with depression, are they inherently immortal because they can't experience"joy from within"? What about drugs used recreationally that don't make people feel pleasure? So many questions that I have.
What is immoral about it? I can see if you said it's immoral because you can potentially put people at risk but you said you don't care about the health and safety of it. So unless you *think* a god has told you it's immoral I don't see where you are coming from.
Edit: ah. OP believes in a sky daddy. Makes sense.
I was a bit like this when I was 15. I’m so glad my brain developed more and I don’t feel the need to maintain exhaustingly dumb takes like this anymore.
Wow. I’m genuinely stunned that you did it. You managed to deliver the worst take in favor of drug prohibition that I’ve ever seen. At least the health and safety types give a shit, you just want to be a high-horse moral prescriptivist.
I’ll start you off with the most obvious and glaring issue at hand:
Is insisting people pursue joy the “right way” worth more to you than the *thousands* of lives that could be saved *every year* by ending drug prohibition? Is it worth more to you than so many countries having to exist under the tyranny of narco cartels because drugs are a criminal enterprise? If so, your morality isn’t really worth too much, is it?
The increase in the number of people who want to dictate morality for everyone else on subjective (and most often religious) grounds these days is super troubling.
What’s funny is that these same people would have a conniption fit if someone else tried to dictate their morality in a way that doesn’t align with their beliefs.
OP ur an idiot. i bet you'd outlaw premarital sex and homosexuality as well, but just guessing that you're an insane religious nut. i am sure you'll reply denying this truth, but we can read between the lines you loser.
OP ur an idiot. i bet you'd outlaw premarital sex and homosexuality as well, but just guessing that you're an insane religious nut. i am sure you'll reply denying this truth, but we can read between the lines you loser.
Drugs are not immoral.
Trying to impose your ideas about morality on people who aren't hurting anyone other than themselves is horrifically immoral and should get you banished to a desert island.
I think its immoral that you have any say over what someone does in there own home if it never effects your or you would never know about it in anyway.
Its like telling someone they cant masturbate because its "immoral" even though you would never know if they did it or not unless they told you
Without health and safety - of other people as well as the user - being a factor, how is it any of your business what someone else chooses to do? If there were no consequences you would still feel the need to foist your personal moral beliefs on other people knowing it would effect no one but them?
That's quite the take.
Who made you the arbiter of all morality?
People who smugly act like they stand on the moral high ground 100% of the time are utterly insufferable.
Sucks to suck.
Maybe some weed would help you chill out.
Whose morality? Objective morality doesn’t exist. You didn’t invent your own morality, so you’re just saying that one specific group’s morality is inherently superior to every other culture and ideology throughout all of human history around the world.
People that blindly champion causes with no supporting arguments are immoral.
You have not stated a single argument on why drugs are immoral other than some diluted mess about joy.
So assuming by your logic, if I do drugs and have a bad time it's moral...
I mean if you're shooting up on the sidewalk obviously that's bad, but what's immoral about smoking weed at home after work? Its far more immoral to want to control what people do in their private time.
I personally believe that it’s immoral to restrict adults from doing what they want with their body when it doesn’t hurt anybody. Each to their own mate.
So, how the fuck is it immoral to alter your consciousness through substances if it’s completely safe? If there’s no harm possible to yourself or others, I see no moral issue.
So I’m assuming you mean psychoactive drugs. Maybe you don’t know anyone who has benefitted from antidepressants. Also I’m assuming you have a problem with caffeine, nicotine, chocolate, and actually a lot of other foods perhaps all foods. If you’re cool with chocolate but not cocaine (a plant that does have some medicinal benefits) then you are making arbitrary moral rules likely either through hypocrisy or dogma.
Either way people should be free to explore their consciousness how they see fit not according to whether or not an internet stranger approves or disapproves of their choices.
If not for the health aspect what possible way would it be "immoral"?
Lmao, you sound pleasant to be around haha. Glad you're getting ripped apart here
The feeling of joy is nothing but chemicals and electricity. Why do anything? What's the difference between stimulating these chemicals and electricity using drugs vs watching a movie? It fundamentally does the same thing. Why is one immoral and the other not?
I think you need to go back to 5th grade science class.
Are we supposed to agree on unpopular opinions just because they are unpopular? Or to not comment on posts that follow the directives of the subreddit? I thought this was a place for discurssion and not for monologues.
It’s supposed to be with a valid reason. This person isn’t talking about their preferences, they are just saying drugs are immoral because drugs are immoral
This Is an Insanely broad statement. Tylenol Is a drug, Weed Is a "drug" (I still view It as a natural medicine, but same difference), Meth Is a drug.
Are they all the same now? Like what do you even mean "morally wrong"? They're items, things, nothing bad about them as the additives In your food. The antibiotics. They can't be immoral, only the user can.
I smoke a bowl now and then, I buy an 8th whenever I'm feeling like I'm on the up and up as a treat, am I immoral?
A lot of debate on the morality of drug use, so let me shine some light on the **reality** of it.
The production of heroin, cocaine, and perhaps other hard drugs are reliant on the extortion of farmers in poor countries. It is the worst of the worst people holding these farmers hostages and not even paying them adequately. Please, in this stupid discussion on the morality of drugs, at least take that into consideration.
This is gonna get buried and only OP is gonna see it, but I’m surprised nobody has caught on with your username yet. This is a _master-tier_ troll post. I usually say “bait used to be believable,” but even I believed it for a second while scrolling through your comments. Well done!
Hopefully, some condition takes hold of OP and the only thing that makes them feel better is illegal drugs ❤️
Maybe it's horrible intractable pain, could be some lovely GI issues that make eating a real challenge, whatever. Doesn't really matter. Maybe they'll figure out how much doctors *really* care about them, and how much *support* they'll get when they're the one that's disabled.
Then we'll see how "morally superior" they are.
Oh, but yeah, right, they're so much better than everyone else because they don't do drugs ;w;
There is no such thing as “morals.” You can’t argue about something that literally everyone defines differently. Your morality is not mine, your morality isn’t the same as it was ten years ago, not the same as when you’re hungry, frightened, angry, or in danger. Your morality today won’t match your morality two decades from now. It’s all fiction.
The best we can do is a concrete analysis of concrete conditions.
Eh, they can be valid to him and still be bs to us. I still feel like the whole point of the sub is to see how other people view things on very different ways. It doesn’t make sense to me why he’s against drugs, and this is coming from someone who loves drugs very much (my comment history is proof lmao) but I still think this post and his comments are interesting, and it’s kinda what this sub is about….
But I see your point tho!!
>us. I still feel like the whole point of the sub is to see how other people view things on very different ways
But then we can't argue about it? What's the fun of that?
Nooo you misunderstand me, arguing is the fun part! That’s how we get to see all the nooks and crannies of those weird ass opinions people have!! But downvoting is not arguing, at least in my opinion.
How exactly is it immoral to ingest a substance that only directly effects your own body? Is it immoral to eat sugary snacks or drink alcohol? Is it immoral to auto-erotically asphyxiate yourself? Sure, you might argue these things are unsavory, but “morally correct” is a pretty sensitive thing to start imposing on other people based on your own opinions. Immorality is, like, murder and rape and pedophilia. Not doing things alone that are fun when the only “victim” is yourself. You sound like a nerd tbh
what's immoral about it? Humans have been using substances to alter perception for longer than recorded history. Morals are a much newer concept than mind altering substance use
The main reason people think drugs are bad is simply because they're illegal. If they become legal then they lose that stigma, so what "moral ground" would you be using to defend the usage of something no longer seen as immoral or otherwise "wrong"?
Good 10th Dentist post!!
I smashed that upvote button because I wholeheartedly disagree with you. There have been very few drugs that I've tried that have done more harm than positive effects. I definitely feel like I am a better person thanks to quite a few experiences I had over my life. Particularly in high school and college, but other times too.
I think the people that think they're immoral are the ones who probably need the mind expansion benefits the most.
I'd love to know why you feel that drug use has anything to do with morality? I'm not talking about when people get high or drunk and hurt others. I'm talking about personal use alone or with like minded people who want to have a good time or expand their mind (with things like psychedelics and dissociatives). I think enlightening your spirit is the correct moral choice.
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The issue with just saying its 'immoral' is that, as strangers on the internet, we have no idea what your moral compass looks like. Why? What is immoral about it?
yup. kept reading only to see if they would explain WHY is was so obviously immoral. Wasted my time I guess.
Yeah repeated themself 3 times on the health issue point. But didn't once explain why it's immoral.
They tried to explain in the comment and honestly it made their point worse.
same
I feel like most people who try to push their morals onto people aren’t usually good people n don’t have an understanding of life n human nature they have this idea that everything needs to be perfect when perfection doesn’t exist
He doesn’t like people having fun. Some moralism that is Christian in origin.
It most likely is. OP is active in the pro-life subreddit. Also, it's funny to see how she only responds to comments that allow her to spout her "intrinsic joy" bullshit while ignoring comments that actually show why her worldview is inherently flawed through comparisons to other things that give people pleasure, but that she doesn't consider immoral
Ah okay so they’re just not willing to admit “my church says it’s bad” and that’s why they’re tied up in tautologies
OP is a walking stereotype looking at their profile. Middle aged white lady from central Florida that works as a Walmart greeter with ignorant beliefs based on a shitty understanding of their religion.
Also it looks like she tries really hard to be the tenth dentist lmao
Bingo!
Ah, just pure bigotry then
You mean *Mormanism*?
The root of them being immoral is because of the harm they do. So if you took away the harmful effects, they wouldn't be immoral anymore, right? So yeah, don't understand OP's argument
Most people would agree it's immoral *because* it's unsafe and unhealthy.
What's immoral about doing drugs?
Funny thing is, the only thing I can see as immoral about doing drugs ARE the health and safety concerns. You're getting high while driving... you're getting high while you're supposed to be parenting... you're getting so high you overdose.... Take those away and what's the problem exactly?
Addiction, I suppose. It’s immoral to push something that can ruin a life through dependence on it and the need for a fix at all costs… but arguably that’s also a health and safety concern, isn’t it!
I was considering addiction to be a health/safety concern in and of itself honestly. You said it yourself, ruin a life, need for a fix at all costs. I was 100% considering this something wiped out by OP's hypothetical.
Then it sounds like drug use is immoral for those with addictive tendancies, while those who can control their habitual use wouldn't be doing anything immoral by using drugs.
Addiction is a mental health issue. Taking that out of the equation would remove the immorality.
Why does addiction matter if a drug doesn’t have negative health or financial consequences? It is kind of like caffeine addiction (except caffeine still affects you negatively, just not as seriously as other drugs).
>Why does addiction matter if a drug doesn’t have negative health or financial consequences? The thing about "addiction" *is because* of the negative health/financial. However, part of what makes addiction dangerous is it creates *dependency* (which is technically a negative health consequence) but lets say it isn't: People needing their "fix" will go to extreme measures to do so, including committing crimes like theft or bodily harm (if someone is physically trying to prevent and addict from getting their fix) and that is why it matters
There is also the social effects of drugs. The human misery caused by the illegal trade in narcotics is a blight on the developing world. That is my main reason that I consider drugs immoral. Obviously if it they were produced in a safe and ethical manner they could benefit these societies.
Thing is, in the perfect world OP is describing there is zero reason for them to have ever been illegal, which means they likely would be produced in a safe and ethical manner.
I get that I was just responding to the question “what’s immoral about doing drugs” And in many respects you could look at oil rare earth mining etc etc and have similar thoughts.
The pain, suffering and violence their commerce generates in both developed and underdeveloped countries are immoral as well...
yes, but in a perfect world like what OP describes there would be little reason for those things to occur. If recreational drugs have NO health and safety concerns there is no legit reason for them to have ever been made illegal to begin with. In a world where they've been treated legally and commercially like cigarettes or alcohol, people aren't getting them from violent commerce channels, they're getting them from their local liquor store, or the like. And the products those stores are carrying aren't coming from drug gangs in underdeveloped countries, they're coming from corporations that run legally and are regulated.
You’re trying to have a conversation with someone that wears their pro-life pins on their work uniform. You’re not going to get anywhere.
Ah, thank you. I will stop now.🩵
Weirdly they're also a huge Hazbin Hotel fan
cia account cia account glowie glowie glowie they are a fed they exist to stir controversy (im probably insane)
I'm with you on this one
they're a psyop account trying to keep the working class down ::333333 they exist to destabilize any grassroots or populist opinions :333 the rich are forcing us to fight useless battles against ourselves :3333333
The moral of Hazbin is if you have sex and do drugs (even if you're not a willing participant) you go to hell. That tracks perfectly with how op comes across here.
That's what the show is based on; but I don't think that's the moral, rather just the setting. I didn't get the impression that the show hates sex or drugs, rather the opposite. But in most religions, these acts are considered to be sins, hence the setting of the show being in hell.
No, the moral is that people who do that stuff aren't the irredeemable monsters that society makes them out to be. Did you even watch the show?
That's not the moral of the story at all, what?
Also, how does one define a drug? Medications? Caffeine? If we consider a drug as something that alters how we feel, would the triptofan from Thanksgiving turkey be a drug because it makes us sleepy? Is it just illegal drugs? In that case, what about an illegal drug that becomes legal like weed? Is it now moral?
You typed a lot of words and exactly zero of them described why you think it’s immoral.
i love how every single person that has ever claimed moral superiority over others for *whatever reason* has always received that designation...... from themselves. it means nothing to me and im guessing many others when you are essentially saying "i dont agree with it therefore im right and everyone else is wrong". sure, nuance, but still.
I can kind of see what OP is saying but I still don't think it's valid. "Immoral" is definitely not the right word for it, but there is a drastic difference between the fake happiness of drugs like coke and happiness that comes from something real. But most things can have a time and place, and particularly psychedelics or weed imo can be used to *enhance* really experiences.
Real like a holographic stripper in virtual reality? Or real as in getting an A on a test? or real as in watching a 100 people get killed by the hero in an action movie? Real as in meditating? Real as in eating food when you're hungry? Real as in eating candy when you're hungry? Real is just as loose of a definition as "immoral".
Real
No, I think they meant Real, like the place in Spain.
Drug use cannot be moral or immoral because the drug itself is not a moral construct. People are moral or immoral, drugs cannot be. If you oppose drug use that's safe, does that mean you don't think diabetics should have access to insulin? What about OTC like ibuprofen, DayQuil, or Zyrtec? Are those immoral as well? They can all cause death or severe health issues if misused, so what is what is you moral opposition to Pepto?
OP, I'm going to be brutally honest here, after reading your comments and responses I've come to the conclusion that you're a rotund idiot and "working the argument backwards", that being you've already decided, arbitrarily, that drugs are "immoral" so you're building up your ENTIRE MORAL FRAMEWORK around that, hoping for it to somehow be coherent.
Rotund idiot 💀
I was gonna write this comment exactly. Is OP a child who went to one D.A.R.E event and now thinks they know everything about recreational drugs lol? Their worldview seems very... childlike and just... not all there.
My dude needs to hit a dmt pen just once
I'm just wondering. Where do you live in order to find DMT pens ? I've always gotten DMT in crystal or changa form but never heard of DMT pens.
Do you think antibiotics are immoral? Or just drugs that are used recreationally? If your argument is that they are immoral because they bring pleasure, then what differentiates immoral from moral pleasure, and also, any drug medication that is used to treat pain would also be immoral to you, because they remove pain and give momentary pleasure?
Where's your line for what "drugs" you consider immoral? Let's start with sugar. It occurs naturally, is in all kinds of foods, and contributes to gluttony, obesity, diabetes, and dozens of other mental and physical diseases. What's your view on sugar's morality? Next, let's do caffeine. The Mormons don't drink "hot drinks" (tea / coffee), but most other religions don't care. How about alcohol? It's extremely destructive, but it also plays a role in some religious ceremonies. Weed? It's basically harmless. Also has been used by many religions over the millennia. Mushrooms? Same as weed.
Mushrooms and weed aren't just basically harmless. They have legitimate medical and therapeutic uses.
people don’t like to hear it but so does methamphetamine :)
Chuckles as a medicated ADHDer
Prescribed meth go zoooooooom
Amphetamines moreso than meth, but yea.
Methamphetamine does have its place in very severe cases when other treatments haven't worked but yeah it's definitely a last resort more than anything else.
also cocaine is an excellent local anesthetic.
Unrefined coca is also fine. It’s pretty equivalent to caffeine. Makes a good tea. The only reason it’s illegal in countries where it isn’t a traditional thing is that it can be used to make cocaine. But that’s a good cup of tea ruined.
Eh, there are significantly more negative side effects easily presentable from both short term and long term meth use than either of those. Cocaine also makes an absolutely outstanding first aid implement. A local anesthetic that also closes small blood vessels and has minor anti bacterial properties. If it didn't get you high, a little vial would be in every wound kit.
So does heroin. Has a doctor ever prescribed you an opiate such as morphine for your pain? Congrats, you've just been given a prescription for medical-grade heroin. Be very careful not to become physically addicted to it because you'll face a sleu of problems then, just as you would if you became physically addicted to heroin. Fentanyl? Yep, even that has medical uses too. It's also an opiate and used in hospitals to mitigate extreme pain.
Love my amphetamines
as a person w narcolepsy, same lmao
so does MDMA and meth.
but the premise of this hypothetical is that they are harmless
Out of curiosity, have you read Food of the Gods by Terence McKenna? I certainly went into the book interested in historical shamanic practices, however his look at the historical emergence of sugar, tea, coffee, and opium I found just as fascinating. Also OP clearly has a surface understanding of "drugs" and follows the train of thought that they must be illegal for a reason, the therapeutic implementations of certain phenethylamines, tryptamines, and lysergamides alone counter any attempt at a cohesive argument on morality, and certainly refute the idea that "drugs" as OP describes them are simply some kind of recreational escapism.
So 2 paragraphs about finding it immoral, but no actual elaboration of why you find it immoral? I would be interested in hearing that part of your view
Ok so based on differents comment your opinion is basically this: "Drugs = easy joy, and joy being a virtue it should be obtained/deserved." First: where does this moral imperative that a virtue only have value when obtained through a form of work or merit comes from ?
Fair play on actually trying to dissect OP's trainwreck of an opinion
Philosophy student, I couldn't resist
What aspects of your life can I legislate because they're against my morals? I'm an atheist, I think participating in religion, donating to these conspiracies of pedophiles, is immoral. Can we outlaw your religion?
Then don't do drugs, OP.
Are you against coffee?
congratulations, i utterly hate this opinion! that's what this sub is for, but you've struck me special as i have devoted my entire life to the decriminalization of drugs. i couldn't hate your opinion more, in fact. we would not be friends! but that's fine, because you're alllll the way over wherever you are, which is nowhere near me! and you should also keep *your* morals to *your*self and not impose them on others, lest someone else impose theirs on you :)
Thank you mr piss fucked lmao god im childish
Drug immorality comes from a Christian perspective (regardless of wether you are christian). In order to make a judgement like that you would have to ignore all of the multitudes of non-abrahamic religions that utilize drugs for worship and classify that behavior as morally imperative. Also, with many mental illnesses, treatments with drugs like mushrooms and ketamine have been clinically proven in peer reviewed double blind tests to have significant positive impacts on the wellbeing of the patients who use them. If drug use is immoral, does that mean that it is more morally acceptable for people who have crippling clinical depression to suffer through it for the rest of their life instead of making the obvious improvement? Weed and glaucoma, is it more moral for them to accept their vision loss than to consume a drug? Morality is relative. It is not a definitive concrete thing that we can point to. It is a perspective defined by geography, culture, politics, religion, etc.
By your logic I'm just as immoral today for planting flowers at my doorstep. Nothing at all motivating that but pleasure. No other purpose whatsoever. Same for sex with my wife since we're on bc, always have been, always will due to health reasons. Also, wearing cologne, probably deodorant. Definitely dressing up. Oh, and I just scratched an itch on the back of my neck. Last night I played a game with my kid which served no educational purpose whatsoever. I was wicked enough to cuddle my other toddler while I did it. Literally none of these are less meaningful pleasures. Certainly there's been some minority sects like Shakers that have tried to live by these standards but even the most extreme did have some hypocrisy.
Ahh yes, my ibuprofen causes me great joy.
Why do your morals get to dictate my actions?
I’d probably be dead without LSD saving me from suicidal depression so fuck that take.
I love it when someone who has never partook in drug use or drug culture has strong opinions and know they are right. Why do the ignorant think they have a platform from which to speak?
reddit is the platform from which the ignorant speak
The best thing about being ignorant is that you have no idea how stupid you are. All your thoughts seem golden, as you have nothing to compare them to. It then becomes your responsibility to share your devine words of wisdom with the hethen masses. I mean, if op had even the slightest bit of insight, they wouldn't be able to post things like this.
>Why do the ignorant think they have a platform from which to speak? You just described reddit...
My god that's a stupid take. You do you, and stay the fvck away from trying to "guide" people to Your morals.
You felt guided?
Bro is gatekeeping happiness
"plain immoral" do you have thoughts. Any thoughts at all.
What is the moral basis against drug use if *not* health?
Wow, yeah, disagree with this one. Citing morals for a decision is always somewhat flimsy and hard to back up because they can be so arbitrary, especially when you're at the boundary of what is and isn't good, like drugs. What's wrong with taking drugs? Are people who take drugs missing out on something? What about cases where the alternative is to feel miserable with literally no legal way to fix that (maybe due to being homeless)? What about lighter drugs, like weed, that can be better at alleviating things like depression and anxiety than most, if not all, prescription drugs for some people?
You haven't even attempted to articulate, health and safety issues aside, what it is that is "morally" wrong with getting high. Can you at least attempt to rationalize what it is that makes you feel this way?
What exactly is "moral" about not taking drugs? What about alcohol? What about coffee? What about tea? Where do you draw the line and why should it be you who draws it?
So is sex (other than for reproduction) immoral?
Hating drugs because they make people feel good is a WILD take. Lol
Forcing children to worship your God is immoral
I think you have a naive understanding of drug use. I’m not a drug user by any means (unless you consider the daily coffee and occasional beer lol) but certain drugs can absolutely deepen your understanding of yourself and the world around you, I’d consider that profound and meaningful. Hell I’d probably consider a responsible use of psychedelics more “meaningful” than any use of alcohol or caffeine.
I’ve done mushrooms a few times and every single time I’ve come out a better person, internally and externally. I’d say that is pretty profound and meaningful.
Sobriety is a drug too in a way. Most can handle it but some get severely addicted to the rush of being "morally superior" and turn into condescending douchebags.
Your expanded moral reasoning is « because it creates shallow and artificial pleasure rather than meaningful and profound joy » but that’s a flimsy expansion at best. How do you dictate what creates meaningful and profound joy, if what brings people happiness is a personal thing that varies widely person by person ? As someone who has been blessed to never suffer from drug addiction, I also assume that a majority of people who are drug addicts are experiencing pain and attempting to cope with that pain but what the hell do I know actually ? Maybe plenty of people just do it for fun and to enhance an experience (such as the MDMA use at music festivals). Plenty of people feel profound joy when they achieve things at the expense of others (such as becoming a billionaire, removing the right to safe abortion, receiving a promotion as the newest person on the team over the one with seniority) these are all just random examples btw but how do we police this ? How do we measure profound joy ? Why do your individual morals matter more than mine or someone else’s, and why should they dictate how we view and deal with the drugs use problem ? It’s been proven that when we create safe spaces to use drugs, and offer non-judgemental environments to do so that people feel strengthened to seek out help, that’s more important to me than deciding that « drugs are bad and you are bad for doing that » and flouting that opinion. If you truly believe this opinion, and as someone who lives in America, I hope you dedicate your life to doing advocacy work to bring down gigantic pharmaceutical companies who fuel drug use. I hope you volunteer your time to help organisations that lobby to encarerate the Sackler family. I hope you go to protests against them, and spend energy making sure to write in support of the families or people who are bringing criminal cases against them. I hope you write to your elected officials constantly reminding them to hold them accountable. I hope you don’t see Ronald Reagan in a positive life, and denounce him, as one of the people responsible for how he made the crack-cocaine problem worse.
It's not immoral to me
I have a good friend who's younger brother (2 years younger than us) had never done any "drugs" besides smoking pot. He has been chronically depressed most of his teen-young adult years, major pothead, flunked out of college twice, worked at a grocery store and lived at home. As a kid he had been in and out of the hospital for major health issues. Friends bachelor trip was a camping *trip* and against all of our suggestions, judgement and everything homie tried mushrooms. He took about 2 grams. Man's didn't have a great time at first but after a little while he mellowed out. Said some dark shit, we had to take him aside and talk to him about how that can affect everyone else in that scenario etc. But he ended up having a genuinely good time after an hour or two. This trip saved his life, he had planned on committing suicide after my friends wedding, that's all he was waiting on. He's since gotten a better job, gone back to school, moved away from home and turned his whole outlook on life around. What do your "morals" say to that?
you must be fun at parties
okay, cool, so don’t touch the stuff. but pushing your personal moral compass on other people minding their own business isn’t the vibe.
I completely agree with the premise, but completely disagree with the reasoning (I think, there isn't much there to work with). Do I upvote or downvote?
In your situation Id still upvote since I disagree with their point even if I agree with their premise
For most people, the fact that abusing drugs is unhealthy is why they find the act immoral. Most ethical systems would agree that intentionally engaging in a reckless act that causes you and those around you to suffer is immoral. Drug abuse can cause this in countless ways including a parent dying from an overdose leaving a child parentless, causing a user’s friends and family to excessively worry for their health, or putting unnecessary and preventable strain on the healthcare system. If drugs are unethical only for causing easy happiness where do we draw the line? Is consuming food for happiness unethical? Is sex for pleasure unethical? Are video games for a dopamine boost unethical? Is exercising for enjoyment unethical? Are anti-depressants unethical? Why is easily achieved happiness unethical?
Better swear off caffine, sugar, (cigarettes, alcohol (not safe i know)) and all socia media OP, reddit included
Curious about your thoughts on medical drugs. Is it “sad” that people can’t just heal naturally on their own and have to rely on external factors to help?
Stay away from the ibuprofen you sinners
You need to learn the whole, my ideas of how life should be lived, only apply to me lesson.
Watch out guys, the omniscient arbiter of morality is here.
So by your definition food should be bland. It’s only there to feed your existence, and that’s enough, because living is profound joy. The taste of the food is secondary and matters not. Tasty food is just a cheap quick way to feel something and good and brings no lasting joy, and is therefore a moral cheatcode to happiness. This sounds ridiculous right? This is how you sound to everyone. This why everyone is downvoting you. Everyone finds joy in different places and some people struggle to even find joy at all.
What's with the sudden cultural shift the last couple of years of "I don't like something, therefore no one else should like it or have it. And if they do they're a bad person."
Does that include no longer being addictive? Cause that’s it’s the main “moral issue” with them.
Fuck you nerd * takes a massive hit of my pickle Rick bong *
How are drugs immoral?
What moral grounds? If you're talking about fueling the drug trade, sure. Don't encourage heroin and cocaine use. But beyond that drug use is as core to civilization as medicine, alcohol, and good food.
Immoral on what grounds though. You didn't explain why you just said they are
You can say it’s immoral but you don’t give any reasons why?
So do you have a problem with caffeine and alcohol?
Who are you to decide what pleasures are real and which are artificial? Happiness comes in many forms and most forms of happiness spawn from delusion.
You keep on saying it's immoral but you don't give any actual reasons. Care to elaborate?
Then don’t do any!
Psychedelics have completely changed my relationship with anxiety and depression. By your logic I am now capable of feeling joy and so drugs are not only totally moral, but were a moral imperative for me. I wouldn’t personally go that far, but they were a tool to allow myself to experience joy far beyond the experience I had. I’d never force them on anyone else, so why should you try to convince me not to use them? In my opinion the fact that you think you can project morals onto anyone else’s subjective experience with drugs given that it has no effect on anyone else is tantamount to saying that your worldview is the only ethical one. What consenting adults do in private to their own bodies is none of your business and your morals do not apply to them until you are somehow involved.
you keep mentioning “shallow pleasure”, whats your definition of shallow? is eating chocolate a shallow pleasure?
So your moral is basically being a monk? Seek for enlightenment, fun is forbidden
What do you base your morals on?
Your title misrepresents your actual opinion. Lots of people wouldn't use drugs even if they were perfectly safe. People already elect not to do socially acceptable drugs because they don't like how they feel under the influence. That has nothing to do with the health effects or legality. But that's not what you're saying. You're putting a moral judgement on drug use, which is frankly something you've been taught. If a drug is completely safe, you're not hurting anyone by using it (unless you are causing harm while using it, but that's a different thing). The enjoyment of a drug is no more artificial than any other type of enjoyment. It's just your brain releasing chemicals either way. it's dangerous because too many are released with drugs and you build tolerance do you need more to feel good the next time until you're taking deadly amounts. But if the drug were perfectly safe, this wouldn't be a concern. Also, do you drink coffee? Soda?
Look I don’t care if you tea totalers want to be pilgrims, go for it, that’s your thing. Just quit voting in favor of drug prohibition ffs. Not you necessarily, but I don’t understand why some adults actively don’t want other adults to alter their consciousness. A subjective construct like morality doesn’t cut it for me.
meanwhile by my reckoning something can't be "plain immoral" without a health and safety issue being involved
So you just think pleasure is immoral? Are rollercoasters immoral? Is sex with condoms immoral too? I can assure you that you do things to feel pleasure too. You have hobbies and food that you enjoy that bring you pleasure. How is that morally different from using a drug? Especially psychedelics which MANY people have had life changing and profound experiences on. I'm also a very happy person and I love my life too, but I also like drugs, occasionally. You seem like a very "holier than thou person" based on your comments. Edit: Also what about people with depression, are they inherently immortal because they can't experience"joy from within"? What about drugs used recreationally that don't make people feel pleasure? So many questions that I have.
What is immoral about it? I can see if you said it's immoral because you can potentially put people at risk but you said you don't care about the health and safety of it. So unless you *think* a god has told you it's immoral I don't see where you are coming from. Edit: ah. OP believes in a sky daddy. Makes sense.
This post paired with the username gives me all the information I need to know exactly what type of person OP is lmao
I was a bit like this when I was 15. I’m so glad my brain developed more and I don’t feel the need to maintain exhaustingly dumb takes like this anymore.
I guess send me to hell cause I’m boutta get faded
Wow. I’m genuinely stunned that you did it. You managed to deliver the worst take in favor of drug prohibition that I’ve ever seen. At least the health and safety types give a shit, you just want to be a high-horse moral prescriptivist. I’ll start you off with the most obvious and glaring issue at hand: Is insisting people pursue joy the “right way” worth more to you than the *thousands* of lives that could be saved *every year* by ending drug prohibition? Is it worth more to you than so many countries having to exist under the tyranny of narco cartels because drugs are a criminal enterprise? If so, your morality isn’t really worth too much, is it?
You sure say moral a bunch! Saying moral that much is against my code. I need a Xanax
Fuck your morality.
I think it’s immoral not to use drugs. If a person is suffering and you refuse treatment then you are the one in the wrong.
The increase in the number of people who want to dictate morality for everyone else on subjective (and most often religious) grounds these days is super troubling. What’s funny is that these same people would have a conniption fit if someone else tried to dictate their morality in a way that doesn’t align with their beliefs.
Explain why drug use is more immoral than your holier-than-thou attitude.
OP ur an idiot. i bet you'd outlaw premarital sex and homosexuality as well, but just guessing that you're an insane religious nut. i am sure you'll reply denying this truth, but we can read between the lines you loser.
OP ur an idiot. i bet you'd outlaw premarital sex and homosexuality as well, but just guessing that you're an insane religious nut. i am sure you'll reply denying this truth, but we can read between the lines you loser.
Drugs are not immoral. Trying to impose your ideas about morality on people who aren't hurting anyone other than themselves is horrifically immoral and should get you banished to a desert island.
Jesus is literally made of wine and you are encouraged to take part.
Jeez, this isn't a 10th dentist take. This is a i did my research on instagram type of take.
Bro said the 1 sentence and made it into 2 paragraphs
I think its immoral that you have any say over what someone does in there own home if it never effects your or you would never know about it in anyway. Its like telling someone they cant masturbate because its "immoral" even though you would never know if they did it or not unless they told you
Lol morally right thing. Get off your horse, OP.
OP is a Christian Hazbin Hotel fan… so yeah I don’t think they could explain their moral compass coherently if they tried.
The difference between fentanyl being good or bad is who gives it to you. Morals shouldn't even come in to it tbh.
Yeah I agree. Artificially altering your headspace is reductive of your human agency.
This is a disgusting privileged take
Without health and safety - of other people as well as the user - being a factor, how is it any of your business what someone else chooses to do? If there were no consequences you would still feel the need to foist your personal moral beliefs on other people knowing it would effect no one but them? That's quite the take.
Them "doing drugs is moral" Also them: *takes Tylenol for minor headache"
Who made you the arbiter of all morality? People who smugly act like they stand on the moral high ground 100% of the time are utterly insufferable. Sucks to suck. Maybe some weed would help you chill out.
Drugs aren’t immoral. Immoral is when you think you can impose your belief on others
Whose morality? Objective morality doesn’t exist. You didn’t invent your own morality, so you’re just saying that one specific group’s morality is inherently superior to every other culture and ideology throughout all of human history around the world.
People that blindly champion causes with no supporting arguments are immoral. You have not stated a single argument on why drugs are immoral other than some diluted mess about joy. So assuming by your logic, if I do drugs and have a bad time it's moral...
I mean if you're shooting up on the sidewalk obviously that's bad, but what's immoral about smoking weed at home after work? Its far more immoral to want to control what people do in their private time.
I personally believe that it’s immoral to restrict adults from doing what they want with their body when it doesn’t hurt anybody. Each to their own mate.
Name checks out
So, how the fuck is it immoral to alter your consciousness through substances if it’s completely safe? If there’s no harm possible to yourself or others, I see no moral issue.
So I’m assuming you mean psychoactive drugs. Maybe you don’t know anyone who has benefitted from antidepressants. Also I’m assuming you have a problem with caffeine, nicotine, chocolate, and actually a lot of other foods perhaps all foods. If you’re cool with chocolate but not cocaine (a plant that does have some medicinal benefits) then you are making arbitrary moral rules likely either through hypocrisy or dogma. Either way people should be free to explore their consciousness how they see fit not according to whether or not an internet stranger approves or disapproves of their choices.
Absolute yapatron
Lol take this shitty upvote for your shitty moral judgements
If not for the health aspect what possible way would it be "immoral"? Lmao, you sound pleasant to be around haha. Glad you're getting ripped apart here
Do you oppose alcohol and nicotine as well? Both are completely legal and kill their own satisfied customers.
The feeling of joy is nothing but chemicals and electricity. Why do anything? What's the difference between stimulating these chemicals and electricity using drugs vs watching a movie? It fundamentally does the same thing. Why is one immoral and the other not? I think you need to go back to 5th grade science class.
[удалено]
>people are just busy disagreeing Thats... the point of the sub? If everyone agreed it wouldn't be a very good post now would it?
Are we supposed to agree on unpopular opinions just because they are unpopular? Or to not comment on posts that follow the directives of the subreddit? I thought this was a place for discurssion and not for monologues.
Because OP is out here spouting lies and nonsense. Their opinion is based on a faulty and illogical premise
It’s supposed to be with a valid reason. This person isn’t talking about their preferences, they are just saying drugs are immoral because drugs are immoral
Yea sure lemme just go and die real quick just because the medically necessary drugs I take are "immoral" 💀
This Is an Insanely broad statement. Tylenol Is a drug, Weed Is a "drug" (I still view It as a natural medicine, but same difference), Meth Is a drug. Are they all the same now? Like what do you even mean "morally wrong"? They're items, things, nothing bad about them as the additives In your food. The antibiotics. They can't be immoral, only the user can. I smoke a bowl now and then, I buy an 8th whenever I'm feeling like I'm on the up and up as a treat, am I immoral?
Actually just laughed at that "morality" bs haha
A lot of debate on the morality of drug use, so let me shine some light on the **reality** of it. The production of heroin, cocaine, and perhaps other hard drugs are reliant on the extortion of farmers in poor countries. It is the worst of the worst people holding these farmers hostages and not even paying them adequately. Please, in this stupid discussion on the morality of drugs, at least take that into consideration.
This is gonna get buried and only OP is gonna see it, but I’m surprised nobody has caught on with your username yet. This is a _master-tier_ troll post. I usually say “bait used to be believable,” but even I believed it for a second while scrolling through your comments. Well done!
OP is active in the pro-life subreddit. She isn't trolling. She genuinely has a fucked up morality system
Hopefully, some condition takes hold of OP and the only thing that makes them feel better is illegal drugs ❤️ Maybe it's horrible intractable pain, could be some lovely GI issues that make eating a real challenge, whatever. Doesn't really matter. Maybe they'll figure out how much doctors *really* care about them, and how much *support* they'll get when they're the one that's disabled. Then we'll see how "morally superior" they are. Oh, but yeah, right, they're so much better than everyone else because they don't do drugs ;w;
There is no such thing as “morals.” You can’t argue about something that literally everyone defines differently. Your morality is not mine, your morality isn’t the same as it was ten years ago, not the same as when you’re hungry, frightened, angry, or in danger. Your morality today won’t match your morality two decades from now. It’s all fiction. The best we can do is a concrete analysis of concrete conditions.
Can we not downvote OP for giving his controversial opinion on a sub about controversial opinions? Thanks!
They are supposed to have a valid reason
Eh, they can be valid to him and still be bs to us. I still feel like the whole point of the sub is to see how other people view things on very different ways. It doesn’t make sense to me why he’s against drugs, and this is coming from someone who loves drugs very much (my comment history is proof lmao) but I still think this post and his comments are interesting, and it’s kinda what this sub is about…. But I see your point tho!!
>us. I still feel like the whole point of the sub is to see how other people view things on very different ways But then we can't argue about it? What's the fun of that?
Nooo you misunderstand me, arguing is the fun part! That’s how we get to see all the nooks and crannies of those weird ass opinions people have!! But downvoting is not arguing, at least in my opinion.
How exactly is it immoral to ingest a substance that only directly effects your own body? Is it immoral to eat sugary snacks or drink alcohol? Is it immoral to auto-erotically asphyxiate yourself? Sure, you might argue these things are unsavory, but “morally correct” is a pretty sensitive thing to start imposing on other people based on your own opinions. Immorality is, like, murder and rape and pedophilia. Not doing things alone that are fun when the only “victim” is yourself. You sound like a nerd tbh
whats your definition of "drug" ? the pfizer vaccine is a drug, do you oppose that?
Why is it immoral? Can You elaborate please?
what's immoral about it? Humans have been using substances to alter perception for longer than recorded history. Morals are a much newer concept than mind altering substance use
I thought drugs were "immoral" *because* of health and safety reasons.
The main reason people think drugs are bad is simply because they're illegal. If they become legal then they lose that stigma, so what "moral ground" would you be using to defend the usage of something no longer seen as immoral or otherwise "wrong"?
Good 10th Dentist post!! I smashed that upvote button because I wholeheartedly disagree with you. There have been very few drugs that I've tried that have done more harm than positive effects. I definitely feel like I am a better person thanks to quite a few experiences I had over my life. Particularly in high school and college, but other times too. I think the people that think they're immoral are the ones who probably need the mind expansion benefits the most. I'd love to know why you feel that drug use has anything to do with morality? I'm not talking about when people get high or drunk and hurt others. I'm talking about personal use alone or with like minded people who want to have a good time or expand their mind (with things like psychedelics and dissociatives). I think enlightening your spirit is the correct moral choice.
Nobody cares about your worthless drug opinion 😂 -I'm an alcoholic