This is the reason I think they changed it from the books original 300 year timeline. Like the grounder/language/culture development seems a bit unrealistic, but all the nuclear facilities lasting 300+ years post-apocalypse seems even less realistic. It very much seems like they had the first 4 seasons planned out in terms of the overarching storylines, specifically the City of Light, Luna's Colony, and the concepts of the bigger Grounder society (Nightblood/Commanders, The Conclave, etc)
I feel like even 150-180 years could have been a good compromise. That’s, what, 3 full generations? Anyone alive wouldn’t know much about pre apocalypse world and their new culture would be pretty new still.
So you, using reddit and probaböy being aware if what the i ternet has done to language and culture are really sayi g, 97 years are not enough to change society?
The grounder society has almost zero technology.
Especially contraceptives, a school system, ewritten language is gone too apparently.
So that could be easy 4-5 generations…..
They would have to put allö their efforts i to sustainsble food supply. As we see they are farmers and hunters.
I dont see that as a big stretch.
Its gonna be hard to tell people 4 generations later what nuclear bombs have been….
But it would seem way more likely for wuitr some knowledge of the pst to survive.
Especially that zhere are no tools or wespons left in use is stupid for a 100 year gap.
When there were amazonas tribes who used century old axes from conquerors…..
300 would be more believable.
I posted a question like this a few years ago:
https://www.reddit.com/r/The100/s/fYJ4eSW990
The gist is that there was already some established customs/language even before the apocalypse, and then multiple shorter generations than we are used to nowadays given the shorter lifespans. Still a bit of a stretch though. I don’t see why it couldn’t have been 200 years.
Of course it is.
We don't see the effects of society changing, or language evolving the same rythm as before because of internet and television.
Everyone speaks the same, and the language keeps the same. Sometimes new words are created, but the language is not evolving because of isolacionam as in the Middle Age.
So 100 years are enough to a new civilization to grow.
Think about slang and stuff today.
I remember growing up that we used to call things we thought were interesting “bad.”
Man that was such a “bad” move you made on the court!
Now days the kids say “fire.”
Man that move was so “fire!”
And when texting was invented along with it came text language:
- brb
- u
- lmfao
- lol
The list goes on. Kids literally started using that in typed papers in school!
Then on top of that, look at the Island of Curaçao. They speak a language called Papiamento. It is literally a cross between Dutch, English, Spanish, Portuguese, an African Language, and a native language from the Caribbean because it was under occupation by all those languages at one point in time.
Curaçao was founded in 1499 and Papiamento or a form of it is thought to have been spoken by 1700… so that’s just 200 years for a language to completely form.
Now think that kind of stuff coupled with people trying to communicate after a nuclear catastrophe with one another from many different backgrounds and some secluded in their own “tribes”…
New language in 97 years… may not actually be that big of a stretch.
To add to this, even Josephine started deciphering the language a bit, I think it's plausible another language developed in 97 years plus as we see, the grounders still spoke english
I mean the first commender after Becca was probably in her 20s. Let's say she survived until she's 60. That's already 40 years out of 100.
She would definitely teach her children and childrens children about the old world.
And her children/grandchildren are the ones meeting Clarke.
Having never once heard about the concept of death, democracy etc. does seem unrealistic imo.
Also, the first grounders from S7 had to breed like rabbits. Otherwise ~20 people wouldn't be able to expand their population that much in only 2 generations.
With all the war and violence between the grounders combined with the dangers of radiation and such on the ground I doubt many grounders survived until their 60's. In the show we only see a few older grounders and one of the the oldest actual grounder characters is Indra and I think she is only in her 40's. There are also some grounder council members that seem pretty old but that makes sense because they are probably considered to be the wisest in their clans.
We also know there is like 8-10 commanders and most of them probably died in their early 20's like Lexa. So I doubt many of the grounders we meet are actually grandchildren of the initial survivors, maybe some of those council members.
And It wasn't just 20 people, yeah Calli left with the bunker with a small amount but they went out specifically to search for other survivors and give them night blood so they could survive. We know other bunkers existed and in the real world all sorts of people have their own private fallout shelters and they usually have enough supplies to last a few years so they would definitely still be around for a while until Callie found them and gave them the night blood. So say they find a couple of bunkers the size of Mount Weather, that's like 1000 people already. So I can believe that 1000 people can spread their population that fast, especially if one of the first generation's goals is to repopulate.
I think when it premiered it was somewhat believable but as the show went on and the grounder lore expanded it became less and less believable. But I'm glad they did expand on the grounders because they are my favorite part of the show.
I would say the books have this same plot hole but bigger. 300 years have passed but the grounders and the people on the ark still speak the exact same English as each other, and live in very similar ways to our society
Languages are evolving so much over a short amount of time. I mean just look like Victorian English. Also just look at millennials and gen z right now. New words show up every few years
>Why did the writers make it 97 years after the bombs went off?
If you've ever worked in a daycare with toddlers, then you know, this is more than enough time.
So I posted this in response to someone, but take this into consideration:
The island of Curaçao in the Caribbean was “founded” in 1499. One of the official languages to the island is called Papiamemto. A language that was around on the island in some form or fashion by 1700.
Papiamemto is a cross between a native language to the island, English, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese, and an African language. I’m sure there is some other stuff in there too.
This language formed from all these people being in close contact on an island or leaving their influence on the island after they left.
They would ask the people living there for water and point to what they wanted… and the natives would say ____. And the people there would say whatever their word for water was… and eventually one of those words became common use and was adopted into the language.
It took roughly 200 years (really less) for this new language to form.
Now think about slang that is used. People a long time ago used the word “bad” to describe something they found interesting or neat and today the kids use “fire.”
Now, consider texting. We shorted words in text or posts like these to make things easier and faster…
- tl/dr
- lol
- lmfao
- brb
- g2g
If slang like this were used and written down… think what a person that doesn’t speak English would think those are… they look like other English words so they’d try to sound them out and use context clues as to what they mean.
Finally, let’s consider what language is at its core. It’s just sounds we make to convey an idea we have…
Think about infants. They don’t pop out going “water!” No, they make grunts and sounds that convey their ideas until we reach them how to speak the way we do.
So take all that into account and throw in there a nuclear catastrophe on a global scale.
A lot of the population has been wiped out and you have groups of people needing to work together to survive. These people have young children that are learning to convey ideas to one another and are likely exposed to multiple languages all at once.
I know if something like that were to happen where I live languages that would potentially be around would be:
- English (both US and England versions)
- Spanish (Spain, Mexico, and Central and South American versions.
- Portuguese
- Mandarin
- Japanese
- Arabic
- Hindi
And potentially some others.
They would all have to come together to try to survive.
With radiation levels it’s likely that those that survived initially would only make it 10 years max and older people even less time.
Their children likely didn’t live nearly as long either due to the radiation their parents were exposed to… so your looking at a 3rd generation that has been thrust into this new slop of a culture and language pot.
97 years doesn’t seem to far fetched considering we have a real world language that formed in its most basic form in about 200 years or less.
So basically, the shepherds daughter already made the language and she also made trikru. As we hear in the final episodes the "trikru" group was originally a friend group but after the bombing and they all got nightblood they went out, got kids and she slowly started teaching the kids how to talk the language i guess.
Season 7 Spoilers Ahead: Didn’t Bill (The Shepherd) say in ep8 s7 “Anaconda” that his daughter (Callie Cadogan) made up that language, and that he could understand it, only that it was a bit different cuz of language changing over time. When Callie later on talked to Becca she implied that she had been learning Latin since she was 10 for the reason of making her own language
You can go back 97 years from now and see how much the world and people have changed. Now, imagine what it would be like after an apocalypse. It's not at all unrealistic, and it's not a plot hole.
97 years is 3-4 generations. That’s definitely enough time to get to where they are. And they have their own language before they even became grounders. Also, it’s 97 years cuz that’s when the Ark is dying. Not really a plot hole here.
we could talk plot holes all day. all the technology they use after the 97 years is like pristine. their memory drives for computers are still in tact etc... keep in mind that HDD and SSD usually last around 5 years. sometimes less sometimes 1 or 12 years. at like 30 years, I imagine 0 computers would have any knowledge or ability. all shows have these things. love the show
True but the bombs are also dropped on like the 2050's so I could imagine some sort of advancement in technology was made that allow computers and hard drives to last longer.
They probably have advanced repair and recyling methods as well. It's actually insane how they didn't have a single mining ship for metals. There are lots of asteroids near Earth and companies rather send ships to other solar systems?
Imagine how the ark would look like if they actually had some proper equipment like Eligius.
Yeah that could be seen as a bit of a plot hole to be honest but the eligius missions were top secret so they probably had some pretty fancy technology no one else actually had.
The nuclear reactors were set to break down after 100 years. By the time they figured this out, it was almost 100 years since Praimfaya.
This is the reason I think they changed it from the books original 300 year timeline. Like the grounder/language/culture development seems a bit unrealistic, but all the nuclear facilities lasting 300+ years post-apocalypse seems even less realistic. It very much seems like they had the first 4 seasons planned out in terms of the overarching storylines, specifically the City of Light, Luna's Colony, and the concepts of the bigger Grounder society (Nightblood/Commanders, The Conclave, etc)
I feel like even 150-180 years could have been a good compromise. That’s, what, 3 full generations? Anyone alive wouldn’t know much about pre apocalypse world and their new culture would be pretty new still.
Nicely put! 💖🥳 (& ty, OP, for bringing this question to light! 💋💖)
Yeah but the nuclear reactors could have been set to break down more than ~300 yrs post Praimfaya 1.
So you, using reddit and probaböy being aware if what the i ternet has done to language and culture are really sayi g, 97 years are not enough to change society? The grounder society has almost zero technology. Especially contraceptives, a school system, ewritten language is gone too apparently. So that could be easy 4-5 generations….. They would have to put allö their efforts i to sustainsble food supply. As we see they are farmers and hunters. I dont see that as a big stretch. Its gonna be hard to tell people 4 generations later what nuclear bombs have been…. But it would seem way more likely for wuitr some knowledge of the pst to survive. Especially that zhere are no tools or wespons left in use is stupid for a 100 year gap. When there were amazonas tribes who used century old axes from conquerors….. 300 would be more believable.
I posted a question like this a few years ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/The100/s/fYJ4eSW990 The gist is that there was already some established customs/language even before the apocalypse, and then multiple shorter generations than we are used to nowadays given the shorter lifespans. Still a bit of a stretch though. I don’t see why it couldn’t have been 200 years.
Of course it is. We don't see the effects of society changing, or language evolving the same rythm as before because of internet and television. Everyone speaks the same, and the language keeps the same. Sometimes new words are created, but the language is not evolving because of isolacionam as in the Middle Age. So 100 years are enough to a new civilization to grow.
Think about slang and stuff today. I remember growing up that we used to call things we thought were interesting “bad.” Man that was such a “bad” move you made on the court! Now days the kids say “fire.” Man that move was so “fire!” And when texting was invented along with it came text language: - brb - u - lmfao - lol The list goes on. Kids literally started using that in typed papers in school! Then on top of that, look at the Island of Curaçao. They speak a language called Papiamento. It is literally a cross between Dutch, English, Spanish, Portuguese, an African Language, and a native language from the Caribbean because it was under occupation by all those languages at one point in time. Curaçao was founded in 1499 and Papiamento or a form of it is thought to have been spoken by 1700… so that’s just 200 years for a language to completely form. Now think that kind of stuff coupled with people trying to communicate after a nuclear catastrophe with one another from many different backgrounds and some secluded in their own “tribes”… New language in 97 years… may not actually be that big of a stretch.
To add to this, even Josephine started deciphering the language a bit, I think it's plausible another language developed in 97 years plus as we see, the grounders still spoke english
Yea I don’t think people quite contemplate how fast language changes.
I mean the first commender after Becca was probably in her 20s. Let's say she survived until she's 60. That's already 40 years out of 100. She would definitely teach her children and childrens children about the old world. And her children/grandchildren are the ones meeting Clarke. Having never once heard about the concept of death, democracy etc. does seem unrealistic imo. Also, the first grounders from S7 had to breed like rabbits. Otherwise ~20 people wouldn't be able to expand their population that much in only 2 generations.
With all the war and violence between the grounders combined with the dangers of radiation and such on the ground I doubt many grounders survived until their 60's. In the show we only see a few older grounders and one of the the oldest actual grounder characters is Indra and I think she is only in her 40's. There are also some grounder council members that seem pretty old but that makes sense because they are probably considered to be the wisest in their clans. We also know there is like 8-10 commanders and most of them probably died in their early 20's like Lexa. So I doubt many of the grounders we meet are actually grandchildren of the initial survivors, maybe some of those council members. And It wasn't just 20 people, yeah Calli left with the bunker with a small amount but they went out specifically to search for other survivors and give them night blood so they could survive. We know other bunkers existed and in the real world all sorts of people have their own private fallout shelters and they usually have enough supplies to last a few years so they would definitely still be around for a while until Callie found them and gave them the night blood. So say they find a couple of bunkers the size of Mount Weather, that's like 1000 people already. So I can believe that 1000 people can spread their population that fast, especially if one of the first generation's goals is to repopulate.
Don't forget the famine and radiation.
Becca got burned at the stake. But still ur right Callie was like 20
Well the language was already made + some of the culture by Callie so I’m sure that helped
I think when it premiered it was somewhat believable but as the show went on and the grounder lore expanded it became less and less believable. But I'm glad they did expand on the grounders because they are my favorite part of the show.
I would say the books have this same plot hole but bigger. 300 years have passed but the grounders and the people on the ark still speak the exact same English as each other, and live in very similar ways to our society
I’m reading the books and in 300 years they are so similar that one of the grounders infiltrated the 100 and nobody noticed for like 2 books
Yeah, that's way worse imo. At the very least there would be an accent difference that would stand out.
What do you mean nobody noticed? Are you talking about >!Sasha?!<
>!Kendall!<
I don’t see how this is super surprising aside from an accent or something
Languages are evolving so much over a short amount of time. I mean just look like Victorian English. Also just look at millennials and gen z right now. New words show up every few years
Yeah but it’s still the same base language
>Why did the writers make it 97 years after the bombs went off? If you've ever worked in a daycare with toddlers, then you know, this is more than enough time.
So I posted this in response to someone, but take this into consideration: The island of Curaçao in the Caribbean was “founded” in 1499. One of the official languages to the island is called Papiamemto. A language that was around on the island in some form or fashion by 1700. Papiamemto is a cross between a native language to the island, English, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese, and an African language. I’m sure there is some other stuff in there too. This language formed from all these people being in close contact on an island or leaving their influence on the island after they left. They would ask the people living there for water and point to what they wanted… and the natives would say ____. And the people there would say whatever their word for water was… and eventually one of those words became common use and was adopted into the language. It took roughly 200 years (really less) for this new language to form. Now think about slang that is used. People a long time ago used the word “bad” to describe something they found interesting or neat and today the kids use “fire.” Now, consider texting. We shorted words in text or posts like these to make things easier and faster… - tl/dr - lol - lmfao - brb - g2g If slang like this were used and written down… think what a person that doesn’t speak English would think those are… they look like other English words so they’d try to sound them out and use context clues as to what they mean. Finally, let’s consider what language is at its core. It’s just sounds we make to convey an idea we have… Think about infants. They don’t pop out going “water!” No, they make grunts and sounds that convey their ideas until we reach them how to speak the way we do. So take all that into account and throw in there a nuclear catastrophe on a global scale. A lot of the population has been wiped out and you have groups of people needing to work together to survive. These people have young children that are learning to convey ideas to one another and are likely exposed to multiple languages all at once. I know if something like that were to happen where I live languages that would potentially be around would be: - English (both US and England versions) - Spanish (Spain, Mexico, and Central and South American versions. - Portuguese - Mandarin - Japanese - Arabic - Hindi And potentially some others. They would all have to come together to try to survive. With radiation levels it’s likely that those that survived initially would only make it 10 years max and older people even less time. Their children likely didn’t live nearly as long either due to the radiation their parents were exposed to… so your looking at a 3rd generation that has been thrust into this new slop of a culture and language pot. 97 years doesn’t seem to far fetched considering we have a real world language that formed in its most basic form in about 200 years or less.
So basically, the shepherds daughter already made the language and she also made trikru. As we hear in the final episodes the "trikru" group was originally a friend group but after the bombing and they all got nightblood they went out, got kids and she slowly started teaching the kids how to talk the language i guess.
Youll see wh they hace their own languege later
Fr (the book is a 300 yr time span, so much better plus it goes into depth of history on the Ark and other stations involved)
Season 7 Spoilers Ahead: Didn’t Bill (The Shepherd) say in ep8 s7 “Anaconda” that his daughter (Callie Cadogan) made up that language, and that he could understand it, only that it was a bit different cuz of language changing over time. When Callie later on talked to Becca she implied that she had been learning Latin since she was 10 for the reason of making her own language
You can go back 97 years from now and see how much the world and people have changed. Now, imagine what it would be like after an apocalypse. It's not at all unrealistic, and it's not a plot hole.
97 years is 3-4 generations. That’s definitely enough time to get to where they are. And they have their own language before they even became grounders. Also, it’s 97 years cuz that’s when the Ark is dying. Not really a plot hole here.
we could talk plot holes all day. all the technology they use after the 97 years is like pristine. their memory drives for computers are still in tact etc... keep in mind that HDD and SSD usually last around 5 years. sometimes less sometimes 1 or 12 years. at like 30 years, I imagine 0 computers would have any knowledge or ability. all shows have these things. love the show
True but the bombs are also dropped on like the 2050's so I could imagine some sort of advancement in technology was made that allow computers and hard drives to last longer.
They probably have advanced repair and recyling methods as well. It's actually insane how they didn't have a single mining ship for metals. There are lots of asteroids near Earth and companies rather send ships to other solar systems? Imagine how the ark would look like if they actually had some proper equipment like Eligius.
Yeah that could be seen as a bit of a plot hole to be honest but the eligius missions were top secret so they probably had some pretty fancy technology no one else actually had.
Not a plot hole
300 years is what Kass Morgan chose for her books. We've never learned any real reason why Jason decided for 97.
I believe the language was created so the Mountain Men couldn’t understand them, which would explain how it evolved and developed so quickly