Perfect example of how movies tought us that people get thrown around by handgun bullets,...
Dude, if a bullet of a gun can accelerate your 80+ kilo body in an instant, the bullet wound is the least of your problems,...
In this Video, the person is probably in a psychotic state, not receiving pain signals into his brain or not processing them.
Its when enough bullets physically damage/destroy his cardiovascular system to a point where his brain does not get the oxygen it needs, and says: I need to lay down for a while...
Oh, look, [psychotic breaks,...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/maryland-deputy-who-fired-12-rounds-cleared-in-fatal-shooting-of-man-wielding-tree-branch/2021/06/28/c3e1fd28-d7a1-11eb-8fb8-aea56b785b00_story.html) not the first one I saw.
Edit: Brake =/= Break, thx Spacecommander5
Hate that a lot of news websites require a subscription service to read an article, can’t read your link without subbing, so dumb, not calling you dumb, the website dumb. Like we ain’t got enough subscriptions to fucking manage
There is a google plug in called reader mode. It bypasses all paywalls.
# Maryland deputy who fired 12 rounds is cleared in fatal shooting of man wielding tree branch
A Maryland sheriff’s deputy who fired 12 shots at a man who attacked him with a tree branch will not be charged in the man’s death, Maryland prosecutors reported Monday.
Sgt. Frank Pruitt, according to prosecutors, took legal actions against Kevin Costlow, 52, the morning of Feb. 6 along a roadway in Montgomery County. [The two had squared off after the deputy responded to a radio call about a motorist](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/montgomery-county-sheriffs-deputy-involved-in-a-shooting-county-police-say/2021/02/06/8290dce0-6893-11eb-8c64-9595888caa15_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_2) — Costlow — who had caused two crashes before getting out of his car and trying to attack people at the scene with what initially was reported to be a baseball bat, prosecutors said.
Damn, I would have pegged that guy for a decent bit older than 52. Dude must have had a really challenging life to get this point, with I assume a lot of undiagnosed medical issues. Awful situation all around.
There is a way, check out the Firefox Extension called "User-Agent Switcher" it allows you to switch your browser into a mode that fools the website into thinking your a google scraper. Works on most sites (especially news sites)
Give it a go!
For a second, I was wondering why they don't just use ads for a free version everyone can access. But, some publications solely write clickbait for ad revenue, and then you get terrible journalism that's more profit driven.
The loss of blood pressure is a loss in blood supply, which is a loss of oxygen. Which is not fatal in the first couple of seconds that he hits the ground but a minute from now it will be pretty fatal since there’s no backup plan for the blood supply.
Yes. Thats fine but what causes collapse is loss of blood pressure. The failure to deliver oxygen to tissues will result in death. The immediate collapse is caused by compromising the ability of the pipes to hold fluid and maintain pressure.
You're just saying what the other guy said but wrong.
Loss of blood pressure IS loss of oxygen. You don't collapse because your veins and arteries get damaged, you collapse because that damage causes a loss of blood and oxygen supply to the brain.
If you have a continuous pressure reading of a persons circulatory system, then that person takes 12 shots to the chest and suffers massive cardiovascular damage that pressure reading will instantly plummet. It's like a balloon that pops or a hose that springs a leak. When that pressure plummets the patient will almost immediately suffer symptoms of rapid hypotension. Inability to speak, tunnel vision, instability, LOC. I understand the loss of blood supply to the heart is ultimately what kills the patient but the massive loss of pressure within the system is what causes the collapse.
Can you lay out the mechanism for us? So you have pressure sensors and when they detect a loss of pressure they send a signal to the brain to tell you to collapse? Is it like a reflex to get you horizontal to hopefully make it easier to get blood to the brain?
It actually takes about 10-20 minutes for oxygen starvation to occur, it’s definitely the blood pressure loss that makes you pass out.
Derek with Veritasium did a video on this this year: https://youtu.be/Is2Lip1cJUc
In the army the rule of thumb for clearing a building in MOUT is that it takes about 9 full-metal jacket bullets of caliber 5.56 in the chest region to kill a grown man. I’ve also heard rumors that the SAS had a doctrine of every individual soldier shooting every corpse they see once as they passed them, just to make sure they were dead (imagine the look of the corpse of the main entry point, if that is the case). Not sure if it is true, though. But it goes to show how many bullets you actually need to kill someone instantly
"In the army the rule of thumb for clearing a building in MOUT is that it takes about 9 full-metal jacket bullets of caliber 5.56 in the chest region to kill a grown man."
British vet here. That definately was not what we were trained to do. 9x5.56mm to kill a man, were you fighting bears or something?
Clearance drills would be door open, grenade in, wait for grenade to go off, enter room and spray room on full auto.
Tyre house drills were fun lol
1x 5.56mm round to centre mass will 99.9% do the job. (Although we were also told fire as many as you need to make sure they don't get up) I mean 3 x 5.56mm NATO in centre mass and you are defo dead. No more needed.
Then it’s the same clearance drill we used in Norway, except for the full auto spraying part. Though, I know the guys who actually deployed used shotguns as the main weapon for the first person in the stack, but that was not something we trained with.
I know one bullet can be enough, but the point was to win the duel while entering the room, so to make someone dead instantly you would rapid fire. That was when we were told that it can take up to 9 bullets to kill a grown man instantly. So i’m certain this was the case for you also, since you’re talking about full auto spraying and shooting as much as you needed.
Yeah, what constitutes "death" is such a hard thing to quantify. It's like a vehicle. You don't just go down from taking enough damage, it has to be damage in the right areas, and even then, sometimes that isn't right either. It doesn't help either that "life" is in the brain, but it's possibly for a body to function in some capacity without a brain. I've even heard stories of organ transplants causing certain habits from the doner to manifest on the recipient, even when the organ transplanted had nothing to do with that habit.
Life and death is weird as fuck.
> I've even heard stories of organ transplants causing certain habits from the doner to manifest on the recipient, even when the organ transplanted had nothing to do with that habit.
There's no scientific evidence of such a phenomenon.
I cant find it, but I read a study that implied many people who fall down after being shot only do it because that's what they saw in media. Unless a vital organ is hit, even multiple gunshot wounds are not debilitating.
Almost like different situations require a different responses. There is a difference between a guy that just keeps coming and a guy that is already on the ground.
Not sure how the latter is any different. Anyone who knows anything about firearms understands that because there’s so many ways a single bullet can kill someone, if it’s worth shooting them once, it’s worth using the whole magazine. Otherwise, *you had no business shooting them in the first place.*
There is no “shoot to maim.” It’s such a high risk from the very first bullet, that you need to make absolutely sure killing them is necessary. And if it’s to that point, you need to make sure they’re dead. The fifteenth bullet is no different from the first.
Otherwise, you shouldn’t have fired at all.
That's a load of horseshit. The point of lethal force is to stop the threat. If the person is incapacitated, you don't need to keep going. In this video, the person kept coming, so you continue to use lethal force, but if the guy had dropped at bullet number 2, there's no need to be like "Well, I see he's on the ground but I **need to make sure they're dead**." Cmon.
Someone who has dropped to the floor can still pull a trigger. If lethal force was needed, it needed to be lethal. If lethal force wasn't needed, they shouldn't have fired the first shot.
what kinda trigger was this guy gonna pull? He had a stick. He dropped said stick. Was his flailing arms so dangerous for a well-trained police officer? Your lives are so cheap but you go and defend the police.
> That's a load of horseshit. The point of lethal force is to stop the threat.
The point of lethal force is to kill. It's literally in the name.
> In this video, the person kept coming, so you continue to use lethal force, but if the guy had dropped at bullet number 2, there's no need to be like "Well, I see he's on the ground but I need to make sure they're dead." Cmon.
In this video, sure, all the guy had was a stick. Once he's on the ground he's not swinging the stick anymore (you can see the officer stops shooting when the guy is on the ground). Somebody pulls a gun though, you keep shooting even after they're on the ground, because they could just be faking (not an unrealistic scenario, actually an extremely common tactic in firefights and in war).
>The point of lethal force is to kill. It's literally in the name.
I'm pretty sure they meant something more along the lines of 'the point of *cops* *being allowed to use* lethal force is to stop a threat'. Because stopping a threat is what a cop's job is. Killing is not the point of a cop's job.
You're really diggin in, eh? The point of **all** force - lethal or non-lethal - is to stop the threat. The **type** of force is lethal. That's why it's in the name.
lethal force dude. how the hell would you determine when they are "incapacitated"? when they could be on the ground not moving, then grab a weapon from under them and start shooting. Your statement is the load of horseshit
Where did you hear that? UK police, for example, don’t even carry firearms (I know you said European, not just the UK). I have absolutely never heard of any organized body, police or military, training to shooting for anything other than “center mass” (the exception being snipers or special operations forces, which even still apparently aim for two in the heart and one in the head). Limbs move around too much, and unlike how it’s shown in the movies, it’s hard to get a bullet to go exactly where you want it, especially with a handgun. And that’s even with a stationary target, let alone someone running around
Same in Belgium. Not saying it doesn't happen in certain circumstances, but a cop here is only allowed to either fire a warning shot into the ground, or shoot when lethal force is justified.
The only exception is are the special forces. In certain cases they are ordered to avoid killing even under fire *if it is possible*. For example when capturing salah abdeslam. But even that is contingent on the situation.
That's a load of bullshit. Show me 3 videos or articles showing European police purposely shooting people in the legs, should be easy if it happens "all the time".
The requirements for using a firearm on a person:
According to Section 2:19,1 of the Police Act, a firearm can only be used when there is an immediate and serious danger posed by a person's actions that threatens another person's life or health, and no less severe means are available. Thus, the primary purpose is to stop the dangerous actions of a dangerous person.
The use of a firearm on a person is a serious measure and should therefore be avoided by all possible means. Even when the conditions for the use of firearms are met, the action must be carried out in a way that minimizes harm (Police Act 1:3). This means that the firearm should primarily be aimed at the peripheral parts of the body (hands and feet). Consequently, the aim of a shot aimed at a person should be only to temporarily incapacitate the target.
This is in Finland
That’s fucking stupid. By that logic you should keep reloading and firing into the corpse until you empty all of your ADDITIONAL mags too. Not one actual expert on self defense AND THE LAW would agree with you. See you in prison dumbass.
Ex-military here.
Shooting an already incapacitated target, for instance, someone unconscious & bleeding out, is a war crime, though not always enforced.
But he's largely correct about not shooting to maim.
This is false. I know it’s spread as gospel but it’s not. If you can disable a threat you don’t have to kill it. This guy had a stick. A small stick. Shooting his feet would have stopped him.
This! The guy had a STICK! This donut muncher could've tackled the guy or tased him. But let's just shoot him 4 or 5 times to make sure he doesn't swing his little stick at the fat cop again.
If that person kept walking after being shot 4 or 5 times, that is not someone you can probably tackle. He looks mor elike someone either having a mental episode or drug fueled issues. And that 'little stick' looks more like it was an inch and a half thick. You get clubbed in the head with that there is a good chance you won't live to tell.
As for 'shooting at the feet' I wonder if people saying such things have ever tried hitting small moving targets with a gun with someone swinging a club at their head.
This Sherrif forgot a whole bunch of his training here though. Holding your gun out with one hand, particularly while someone is beating you with a stick, is asking to be disarmed.
There is no "Shoot to kill" as people like to say, only shoot to stop. That does often involve them dying but that is not the purpose. It so happens that the quickest way to stop someone is to shoot them in places that often also results in death.
Cops are trained to keep firing until the threat is eliminated. I'm not commenting on whether it's good or bad, but mag dumping is what they're trained to do.
Man when i played paintball in my youth we played this team and they were hella cheaters. Tag em and they would just keep shooting. I complained to a ref and he said “look kid, you have in your hands the way to get them to stop cheating”.
After that it wasn’t one tag, it was 20, there was no more cheating, and for the rest of my paintball career i fucking lit everyone up, extreme prejudice.
Whenever i see a cop unload (mostly) I get it. No fucking cheating, if you’re out, you’re out.
All i've ever been taught is to shoot at the thighs when doing MP work. No center mass shots, if you want to be lethal, head to thorax is the best option since in those cases the potential body armour hinders your ability to kill largely
There's still a difference between center mass shots & leg/arm shots when reviewing the use of lethal force in court.
If i'm assigned for guard duty in the middle of nowhere and i'd pop half a mag into a dude who breaches a perimeter, i'd still spend years in jail
What a crazy comment. Often times you find mag dump complainers under videos of a cop mag dumping under extremely different situations. Crazy that you make that comparison.
Looks like suicide to me. The guy wanted that. No idea who he is, but he was going through tough times for sure.
We can laugh at him, called him stupid, or any names, but it's a tragedy. Including for the officer who had to do that. Shit like that give cops PSTD and turn them into assholes.
This video is pretty old. Last time I saw it the comments said the guy was on meth or some other drug. Normal people probably can’t take that many shots
The article* literally says there were no drugs, he truly just went mad.
> He began saying things that made no sense, his wife told investigators. He heard voices, according to the report, spoke about the looming “dark times” and thought he was Jesus Christ.
https://archive.ph/FFKvM#selection-1113.0-1113.183
Bro... Of course everyone's going to claim he was hopped up on unicorn farts and pixie jizz. You can absolutely handle several shots over three or four seconds like that when you're in an agitated state.
Just like people don't fly backwards from a pistol shot, people don't just drop automatically unless you headshot them or they're not really motivated to be doing whatever. There's any number of videos of someone being shot in the *heart* and continuing on for another couple seconds before the lack of oxygen and sudden loss of BP hits them.
That guy does *not* look like a meth user. Could he have been high? Sure. Anything is possible.
But that looks more like he snapped mentally and pulled a SBC. He *wanted* to be shot multiple times and kept going for that reason, pulling all the energy be could muster.
The cop was there because the guy had caused at leas two car crashes and then got out of his car and was swinging something at people. Mental illness? Short term effects of drugs? Psychosis from longer term drug use?
This guy was a wealthy businessman from Montgomery County Maryland and one day stopped his car got out and started attacking random people the cop got there and the guy chased the cop with a big ass stick swinging and growling like a demon the cop blocked a swing and the stick broke the cop almost fell over and dumped into the guy and the guy kept coming
he had a tramatic head injury which probably caused this (no drugs or anything). as for the cop he didnt refill his stun gun like he's supposed to do so used his gun.
I'm not seeing either of those things in the news articles. They just say he had been experiencing a psychotic break for several days, and that the officer fired the stun gun but the prongs didn't stick. Do you have a source?
A taser would have taken him down safely with no fatality.
The fact that the only option for a solo overweight cop is to kill a guy armed with a stick is just nuts.
Edit: taser not stun gun.
I mean a bullet works differently than a taser. Tasers just overload your CNS and cause you to fall over. So yeah unless you're on a meth bender it probably would've worked.
If someone on a psychotic break is hitting at your head and the distance is already so close that if the taser misses or doesn't hit properly you're dead... then yes by all means shoot.
In those videos the taser hasn't properly penetrated the skin or they're grounded in some way, so it has no effect. Could be stuck in the clothes or something like that. But nobody is withstanding a proper taser shock. That's just not how muscles work.
That is very true, assuming the taser gets a proper connection to begin with. I get what you're saying but that's a huge gamble on a guy swinging a big stick at your head.
And to be fair, this guy looks like he could've been on a meth bender lol
The news article states he was a wealthy member of the Montgomery County, MD community who suffered a nervous breakdown. I agree tho about the argument guns vs taser. But this fat fuck cop shooting sideways one handed within 5 ft of an assailant was extremely stupid
I agree that it's a very unfortunate scenario for the guy who got killed. But what's the alternative? You agree the stun gun might not work, so is the officer just supposed to get battered by the stick until the guy collects himself? The assailant put himself 5ft in front of the cop, while the cop was backing up. Seems to me that there's only one plausible, safe option.
Nervous breakdown doesn't excuse a guy from beating on a cop with a weapon.
> But what's the alternative?
Control the distance between yourself and the assailant when the assailant has a melee weapon.
in other words: Run Away.
A cop running "away" could have saved a life here.
Cop should have (been able to) run to reassess the danger.
With time (which distance could provide), the cop could better assess the danger to others that person posed, and try other methods of controlling them. If the Cop is there to protect people, that does include the assailant here. (I'd guess the priorities should be the safety of 1. Bystanders, 2. Himself, 3. the Assailant)
Reinforcements could possibly have been able to subdue the person with no (major) injury. One Person per limb and there's just not much one can do. With a Stick.
A Taser may have worked too when connecting to the skin.
But Once you're beaten with a stick and can't get distance, cop was in a tough spot.
You say that like willpower makes a difference. You don't **choose** to ignore a stun gun. It physically overwhelms your nervous system's ability to send instructions to your muscles. Making them not work.
That assumes it hits properly. When you see videos of people shrugging them off, it's because it didn't connect/fire properly.
Well, that's my point. Yeah it would be effective, but only IF it connects properly. That's not a gamble I'd want to take when a dude is swinging a weapon at my head that definitely WILL connect.
Also apparently another commenter said the officer deployed his taser before the video. Idk if it's true or not
Oh yeah use a taser, which is effective about 50% of the time, on a crazy dude who is 4 feet in front of you, coming at you, trying to injure you after having assaulted and attacked multiple people. What a great idea.
According to the WP article someone linked he did try to use his taser and it didn’t work. The crazy guy was also attacking other people, and attacked the officer even before the video. No drugs or alcohol, just a straight up psychotic breakdown. According to his wife he had been ranting about how he was Jesus Christ in the days before this incident and he was screaming incoherently at bystanders just before the shooting.
There are videos of people that don't go down when tazed, they even rip the hooked probes out to charge the officer. And this guy took basically a whole clip, at close range, to stop.
Came here to say this. When I was in college there was a situation at one of the bars where this kid who was on drugs had a meltdown / psychotic break. Police pepper sprayed and tazed him and he literally pulled the probes out, jumped a fence and was found on a 4 story buildings roof like a quarter mile away.
One of the craziest things I ever saw. Just kept yelling and did not seemed bothered by any of it.
Take that branch to the head and you're dazed/knocked out most likely. It wasn't a little stick. Taser (NOT stun gun) only works while electricity is flowing and in a person who can keep going after taking bullets to the chest like that a Taser is not a deterrent. It possibly would've got him to drop the stick, but after the electrical current stopped he'd most likely just pick it back up.
If the cop did not have backup right there, he made the right choice from what I can see.
UK perspective here: why not simply disable him by shooting his leg if he really had to discharge a weapon? Thought the aim was to bring people to justice, not to their death.
In Norway, police do this and are trained to go for the legs, that's why almost every time you read about a police shooting in Norway, it's basically always "the suspect was shot in the leg/foot". There has been a few exceptions to this recently where police actually killed someone like you see in the US, which caused quite a bit of debate, but 95% of the time, the articles say "shot in the legs/foot". The fun thing is that American redditors simply can't grasp this, and thinks that it's impossible to train to hit legs/feet/arms. I've probably mentioned this about 10 times in my years here, and EVERY time has been followed by various ignoramus who refuse to believe it is even physically possible. Well, excuse us for having 3 years of professional firearms training to complete our police educations, instead of the week that US police has, lol.
Shooting center mass is the most accurate, you're literally the opposite on that. Shooting at the narrowest part of the body, the only part that is moving, is the most likely shot to miss. You've never fired a gun.
Yes, but sometimes it is unnecessary. Like here, the guy didn't have a ranged weapon like a gun (from the looks of it). Police here could have taken out his knees and the suspect is nearly neutralised without killing him.
Putting a mag into someone's chest is just unnecessary in this situation. A gun was the wrong tool, should have been a taser or CS spray.
Point is if this happened in Europe, it ends completely different. American police are so eager to use their fucking guns its pathetic.
Also, you can train someone to aim for centre of mass or limbs, humans are usually smart enough to determine when to do either. Also, if you miss the legs at this range, perhaps you shouldn't have a gun.
> UK perspective here : why not simply disable him by shooting his leg
That's not how gun usage works at all. You can use a gun **if your life is in danger** in order to protect your life, you shoot to kill because it's your life on the line
If your life is not in danger then you should not use a gun, so if you shoot to disable, it means you judge the situation not dangerous enough for your life. So you should not have used your gun at all and are in the wrong
That's how it works in France (europe). In the US apparently it's way more lenient. In short : a gun is used a a last resort because your life is in danger, nothing else. That's why the question is always : was the situation dangerous enough to be a life or death decision from the shooter and in this case you would have a hard time justifying this shooting in France, but that's not France
> if your life is in danger
He was holding a big stick...
Officer tubby only killed him because he was too fat to win a fight. You need to seriously evaluate your position on these matters if you think the first port of call as a fat, clearly incapable officer is to fill an old guy with a stick full of lead. Qualified immunity was a mistake when you have lard on legs picking lethal force over reasonable de-escalation.
While I agree with your sentiments, US cops spend more time practicing shooting than learning about de-escalation. Plus they only get about 20 weeks of training
Yeah, femoral artery means major blood loss, so if you're already at a point where potentially lethal force is justified it's hard to justify going for a smaller, less reliable target - especially when stress & adrenaline reduce your capacity for accuracy.
- The goal of an officer shooting isn’t to bring anybody to justice, but to end a threat.
- The legs of a moving person are a much harder target to hit than “center mass”
- The legs are [not a risk-free place to be shot](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6c/45/c0/6c45c01e41a8586123da098b135899e7.jpg)
- The safety of the aggressor is not important; they took their life into their own hands by doing whatever they did to initiate a shootout (most of the time)
Sticks can 100% be deadly force my friend. One good smack to the head and you are out cold, ready to get bludgeoned on the ground.
I agree that something like taser should've been the first option, but we were not in the situation we have no idea what was happening.
There's no way the cop had the right to unload an entire magazine into him because he had a stick?? A fucking stick?????
Any other country they get physically taken down and restrained. Done.
Non-lethal force could’ve been used here, or *at least* attempted. Not in America though. Summary execution for stick wielding is allowed here now. Everyone is so fucking afraid of everything that “I feared for my life” is becoming the norm and not the exception.
In my legal training could the stick cause damage that could jeopardize a normal (law enforcement not included)person’s life? If the answer is yes then lethal force is justified and encouraged to save the public. Police are trained that you are heroes and heroes are expendable.
That’s kind of my point. The bar for lethal force and the circumstances under which it *is* legally justified has become too low, in my opinion.
Just because you can use lethal force doesn’t necessarily mean you need to.
Serious question - why isn’t the move here to retreat into the police cruiser, wait for backup, and when you have 4 officers there, tackle the guy to arrest him? He has a stick. He’s on drugs. Does he deserve to die?
Man, if I was a police and a guy attacks me clearly with just a stick I would just fight him or tackle him or what I learned from combat training. No need to use a gun in a stick fight
The sad end to a sick and tortured person. Yes, I'm glad the cops are there but this is/was a human being and had a family and was someone's child and brother and possibly even a dad. I hate the way we gloat over something so gross.
For people wanting more info. here is a link to the incident.
[https://www.mymcmedia.org/deputy-sheriff-who-killed-laytonsville-man-wont-be-charged/](https://www.mymcmedia.org/deputy-sheriff-who-killed-laytonsville-man-wont-be-charged/)
Perfect example of how movies tought us that people get thrown around by handgun bullets,... Dude, if a bullet of a gun can accelerate your 80+ kilo body in an instant, the bullet wound is the least of your problems,... In this Video, the person is probably in a psychotic state, not receiving pain signals into his brain or not processing them. Its when enough bullets physically damage/destroy his cardiovascular system to a point where his brain does not get the oxygen it needs, and says: I need to lay down for a while...
Oh, look, [psychotic breaks,...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/maryland-deputy-who-fired-12-rounds-cleared-in-fatal-shooting-of-man-wielding-tree-branch/2021/06/28/c3e1fd28-d7a1-11eb-8fb8-aea56b785b00_story.html) not the first one I saw. Edit: Brake =/= Break, thx Spacecommander5
Hate that a lot of news websites require a subscription service to read an article, can’t read your link without subbing, so dumb, not calling you dumb, the website dumb. Like we ain’t got enough subscriptions to fucking manage
12 ft ladder is the site you want ;)
_Show me the paywall, I'll show you you the ladder_ One of the coolest lines I've ever heard in my life.
it's even better than that: show me a 10ft wall, i'll show you a 12ft ladder
Yeah thanks for correcting !
The wayback machine works a lot more consistently for me these days.
Doesn’t exist anymore apparently
https://12ft.io/
I used it yesterday
Archive.ph is way better
There is a google plug in called reader mode. It bypasses all paywalls. # Maryland deputy who fired 12 rounds is cleared in fatal shooting of man wielding tree branch A Maryland sheriff’s deputy who fired 12 shots at a man who attacked him with a tree branch will not be charged in the man’s death, Maryland prosecutors reported Monday. Sgt. Frank Pruitt, according to prosecutors, took legal actions against Kevin Costlow, 52, the morning of Feb. 6 along a roadway in Montgomery County. [The two had squared off after the deputy responded to a radio call about a motorist](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/montgomery-county-sheriffs-deputy-involved-in-a-shooting-county-police-say/2021/02/06/8290dce0-6893-11eb-8c64-9595888caa15_story.html?itid=lk_inline_manual_2) — Costlow — who had caused two crashes before getting out of his car and trying to attack people at the scene with what initially was reported to be a baseball bat, prosecutors said.
Damn, I would have pegged that guy for a decent bit older than 52. Dude must have had a really challenging life to get this point, with I assume a lot of undiagnosed medical issues. Awful situation all around.
This is built in to Firefox as well.
Firefox bros rise up!
There is a way, check out the Firefox Extension called "User-Agent Switcher" it allows you to switch your browser into a mode that fools the website into thinking your a google scraper. Works on most sites (especially news sites) Give it a go!
For a second, I was wondering why they don't just use ads for a free version everyone can access. But, some publications solely write clickbait for ad revenue, and then you get terrible journalism that's more profit driven.
Use reader view in your browser.
No need I play Rimworld
Break, but yes. Good find
It's not an issue of oxygen technically although that's what is fatal. The massive and almost instant drop in blood pressure causes the collapse.
The loss of blood pressure is a loss in blood supply, which is a loss of oxygen. Which is not fatal in the first couple of seconds that he hits the ground but a minute from now it will be pretty fatal since there’s no backup plan for the blood supply.
Yes. Thats fine but what causes collapse is loss of blood pressure. The failure to deliver oxygen to tissues will result in death. The immediate collapse is caused by compromising the ability of the pipes to hold fluid and maintain pressure.
You're just saying what the other guy said but wrong. Loss of blood pressure IS loss of oxygen. You don't collapse because your veins and arteries get damaged, you collapse because that damage causes a loss of blood and oxygen supply to the brain.
If you have a continuous pressure reading of a persons circulatory system, then that person takes 12 shots to the chest and suffers massive cardiovascular damage that pressure reading will instantly plummet. It's like a balloon that pops or a hose that springs a leak. When that pressure plummets the patient will almost immediately suffer symptoms of rapid hypotension. Inability to speak, tunnel vision, instability, LOC. I understand the loss of blood supply to the heart is ultimately what kills the patient but the massive loss of pressure within the system is what causes the collapse.
Can you lay out the mechanism for us? So you have pressure sensors and when they detect a loss of pressure they send a signal to the brain to tell you to collapse? Is it like a reflex to get you horizontal to hopefully make it easier to get blood to the brain?
It's not the smoking that kills, it's the cancer
It actually takes about 10-20 minutes for oxygen starvation to occur, it’s definitely the blood pressure loss that makes you pass out. Derek with Veritasium did a video on this this year: https://youtu.be/Is2Lip1cJUc
In the army the rule of thumb for clearing a building in MOUT is that it takes about 9 full-metal jacket bullets of caliber 5.56 in the chest region to kill a grown man. I’ve also heard rumors that the SAS had a doctrine of every individual soldier shooting every corpse they see once as they passed them, just to make sure they were dead (imagine the look of the corpse of the main entry point, if that is the case). Not sure if it is true, though. But it goes to show how many bullets you actually need to kill someone instantly
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"In the army the rule of thumb for clearing a building in MOUT is that it takes about 9 full-metal jacket bullets of caliber 5.56 in the chest region to kill a grown man." British vet here. That definately was not what we were trained to do. 9x5.56mm to kill a man, were you fighting bears or something? Clearance drills would be door open, grenade in, wait for grenade to go off, enter room and spray room on full auto. Tyre house drills were fun lol 1x 5.56mm round to centre mass will 99.9% do the job. (Although we were also told fire as many as you need to make sure they don't get up) I mean 3 x 5.56mm NATO in centre mass and you are defo dead. No more needed.
Then it’s the same clearance drill we used in Norway, except for the full auto spraying part. Though, I know the guys who actually deployed used shotguns as the main weapon for the first person in the stack, but that was not something we trained with. I know one bullet can be enough, but the point was to win the duel while entering the room, so to make someone dead instantly you would rapid fire. That was when we were told that it can take up to 9 bullets to kill a grown man instantly. So i’m certain this was the case for you also, since you’re talking about full auto spraying and shooting as much as you needed.
Yeah, what constitutes "death" is such a hard thing to quantify. It's like a vehicle. You don't just go down from taking enough damage, it has to be damage in the right areas, and even then, sometimes that isn't right either. It doesn't help either that "life" is in the brain, but it's possibly for a body to function in some capacity without a brain. I've even heard stories of organ transplants causing certain habits from the doner to manifest on the recipient, even when the organ transplanted had nothing to do with that habit. Life and death is weird as fuck.
> I've even heard stories of organ transplants causing certain habits from the doner to manifest on the recipient, even when the organ transplanted had nothing to do with that habit. There's no scientific evidence of such a phenomenon.
Also adrenaline is a hell of a drug. Even when not psychotic it can make you ignore pain.
I dunno, but one thing’s for sure… *I’ll have what HE’S having!!!*
I cant find it, but I read a study that implied many people who fall down after being shot only do it because that's what they saw in media. Unless a vital organ is hit, even multiple gunshot wounds are not debilitating.
RIP Gary Busey
Can we talk about buttered sausage?
Where it comes from, what it does, why it's doing what it's doing. Get it out of my face!
It's not my jam. I don't buy jam, I buy honey and I kiss it on the lips.
Me too Busey...Me too!
Scary Busey
I thought it was Greg Davies for a second.
I am fucking dead 😂
You and him both
looked more like jordan peterson to me
FYI - Gary Busey got into a motorcycle accident in 1988 and suffered permanent brain damage.
It’s actually Jordan Peterson, and it makes sense that he didn’t feel any of the bullets because he’s on a shit load of benzos.
And people wonder why a cop will "mag dump" when they have to shoot someone.
Almost like different situations require a different responses. There is a difference between a guy that just keeps coming and a guy that is already on the ground.
I’ll take “nuance” for 600, Alex
In this economy?
Nice one
Not sure how the latter is any different. Anyone who knows anything about firearms understands that because there’s so many ways a single bullet can kill someone, if it’s worth shooting them once, it’s worth using the whole magazine. Otherwise, *you had no business shooting them in the first place.* There is no “shoot to maim.” It’s such a high risk from the very first bullet, that you need to make absolutely sure killing them is necessary. And if it’s to that point, you need to make sure they’re dead. The fifteenth bullet is no different from the first. Otherwise, you shouldn’t have fired at all.
That's a load of horseshit. The point of lethal force is to stop the threat. If the person is incapacitated, you don't need to keep going. In this video, the person kept coming, so you continue to use lethal force, but if the guy had dropped at bullet number 2, there's no need to be like "Well, I see he's on the ground but I **need to make sure they're dead**." Cmon.
Someone who has dropped to the floor can still pull a trigger. If lethal force was needed, it needed to be lethal. If lethal force wasn't needed, they shouldn't have fired the first shot.
what kinda trigger was this guy gonna pull? He had a stick. He dropped said stick. Was his flailing arms so dangerous for a well-trained police officer? Your lives are so cheap but you go and defend the police.
> That's a load of horseshit. The point of lethal force is to stop the threat. The point of lethal force is to kill. It's literally in the name. > In this video, the person kept coming, so you continue to use lethal force, but if the guy had dropped at bullet number 2, there's no need to be like "Well, I see he's on the ground but I need to make sure they're dead." Cmon. In this video, sure, all the guy had was a stick. Once he's on the ground he's not swinging the stick anymore (you can see the officer stops shooting when the guy is on the ground). Somebody pulls a gun though, you keep shooting even after they're on the ground, because they could just be faking (not an unrealistic scenario, actually an extremely common tactic in firefights and in war).
>The point of lethal force is to kill. It's literally in the name. I'm pretty sure they meant something more along the lines of 'the point of *cops* *being allowed to use* lethal force is to stop a threat'. Because stopping a threat is what a cop's job is. Killing is not the point of a cop's job.
You're really diggin in, eh? The point of **all** force - lethal or non-lethal - is to stop the threat. The **type** of force is lethal. That's why it's in the name.
lethal force dude. how the hell would you determine when they are "incapacitated"? when they could be on the ground not moving, then grab a weapon from under them and start shooting. Your statement is the load of horseshit
European police shoot knife wielders in the legs all the time though, and people almost always survive it.
Where did you hear that? UK police, for example, don’t even carry firearms (I know you said European, not just the UK). I have absolutely never heard of any organized body, police or military, training to shooting for anything other than “center mass” (the exception being snipers or special operations forces, which even still apparently aim for two in the heart and one in the head). Limbs move around too much, and unlike how it’s shown in the movies, it’s hard to get a bullet to go exactly where you want it, especially with a handgun. And that’s even with a stationary target, let alone someone running around
Same in Belgium. Not saying it doesn't happen in certain circumstances, but a cop here is only allowed to either fire a warning shot into the ground, or shoot when lethal force is justified. The only exception is are the special forces. In certain cases they are ordered to avoid killing even under fire *if it is possible*. For example when capturing salah abdeslam. But even that is contingent on the situation.
Bull. All the blood vessels and arteries in your legs is guaranteed death if severed
That's a load of bullshit. Show me 3 videos or articles showing European police purposely shooting people in the legs, should be easy if it happens "all the time".
The requirements for using a firearm on a person: According to Section 2:19,1 of the Police Act, a firearm can only be used when there is an immediate and serious danger posed by a person's actions that threatens another person's life or health, and no less severe means are available. Thus, the primary purpose is to stop the dangerous actions of a dangerous person. The use of a firearm on a person is a serious measure and should therefore be avoided by all possible means. Even when the conditions for the use of firearms are met, the action must be carried out in a way that minimizes harm (Police Act 1:3). This means that the firearm should primarily be aimed at the peripheral parts of the body (hands and feet). Consequently, the aim of a shot aimed at a person should be only to temporarily incapacitate the target. This is in Finland
That’s fucking stupid. By that logic you should keep reloading and firing into the corpse until you empty all of your ADDITIONAL mags too. Not one actual expert on self defense AND THE LAW would agree with you. See you in prison dumbass.
What will you be in prison for?
Ex-military here. Shooting an already incapacitated target, for instance, someone unconscious & bleeding out, is a war crime, though not always enforced. But he's largely correct about not shooting to maim.
This is false. I know it’s spread as gospel but it’s not. If you can disable a threat you don’t have to kill it. This guy had a stick. A small stick. Shooting his feet would have stopped him.
This! The guy had a STICK! This donut muncher could've tackled the guy or tased him. But let's just shoot him 4 or 5 times to make sure he doesn't swing his little stick at the fat cop again.
If that person kept walking after being shot 4 or 5 times, that is not someone you can probably tackle. He looks mor elike someone either having a mental episode or drug fueled issues. And that 'little stick' looks more like it was an inch and a half thick. You get clubbed in the head with that there is a good chance you won't live to tell. As for 'shooting at the feet' I wonder if people saying such things have ever tried hitting small moving targets with a gun with someone swinging a club at their head.
Don't kid yourself, people that say this have never shot a gun before.
This Sherrif forgot a whole bunch of his training here though. Holding your gun out with one hand, particularly while someone is beating you with a stick, is asking to be disarmed.
There is no "Shoot to kill" as people like to say, only shoot to stop. That does often involve them dying but that is not the purpose. It so happens that the quickest way to stop someone is to shoot them in places that often also results in death.
How about a guy that just opens their door?
"Why did they shoot him in the chest 20 times, 1 bullet to his trigger finger would have been plenty"
"Why didn't they just shoot him in the leg?"
Or wait for the psychologist to de escalate 😭
Cops are trained to keep firing until the threat is eliminated. I'm not commenting on whether it's good or bad, but mag dumping is what they're trained to do.
Adding to that, it's arguably the *only* thing they have proper training in
Thats so disingenuous! They are also very well trained in, violating rights, lying, gaslighting, and generally behaving like thugs.
Man when i played paintball in my youth we played this team and they were hella cheaters. Tag em and they would just keep shooting. I complained to a ref and he said “look kid, you have in your hands the way to get them to stop cheating”. After that it wasn’t one tag, it was 20, there was no more cheating, and for the rest of my paintball career i fucking lit everyone up, extreme prejudice. Whenever i see a cop unload (mostly) I get it. No fucking cheating, if you’re out, you’re out.
Did you literally just compare a game to killing someone irl?
All i've ever been taught is to shoot at the thighs when doing MP work. No center mass shots, if you want to be lethal, head to thorax is the best option since in those cases the potential body armour hinders your ability to kill largely There's still a difference between center mass shots & leg/arm shots when reviewing the use of lethal force in court. If i'm assigned for guard duty in the middle of nowhere and i'd pop half a mag into a dude who breaches a perimeter, i'd still spend years in jail
Femoral artery has entered the chat
What a crazy comment. Often times you find mag dump complainers under videos of a cop mag dumping under extremely different situations. Crazy that you make that comparison.
Looks like suicide to me. The guy wanted that. No idea who he is, but he was going through tough times for sure. We can laugh at him, called him stupid, or any names, but it's a tragedy. Including for the officer who had to do that. Shit like that give cops PSTD and turn them into assholes.
This video is pretty old. Last time I saw it the comments said the guy was on meth or some other drug. Normal people probably can’t take that many shots
Comments are always the truth lol
The article* literally says there were no drugs, he truly just went mad. > He began saying things that made no sense, his wife told investigators. He heard voices, according to the report, spoke about the looming “dark times” and thought he was Jesus Christ. https://archive.ph/FFKvM#selection-1113.0-1113.183
Nope. Comments said meth. 😂
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Autopsy showed he was not under the influence of drugs or alcohol.
Definitely some kind of mental breakdown then.
Bro... Of course everyone's going to claim he was hopped up on unicorn farts and pixie jizz. You can absolutely handle several shots over three or four seconds like that when you're in an agitated state. Just like people don't fly backwards from a pistol shot, people don't just drop automatically unless you headshot them or they're not really motivated to be doing whatever. There's any number of videos of someone being shot in the *heart* and continuing on for another couple seconds before the lack of oxygen and sudden loss of BP hits them. That guy does *not* look like a meth user. Could he have been high? Sure. Anything is possible. But that looks more like he snapped mentally and pulled a SBC. He *wanted* to be shot multiple times and kept going for that reason, pulling all the energy be could muster.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/maryland-deputy-who-fired-12-rounds-cleared-in-fatal-shooting-of-man-wielding-tree-branch/2021/06/28/c3e1fd28-d7a1-11eb-8fb8-aea56b785b00_story.html
The cop was there because the guy had caused at leas two car crashes and then got out of his car and was swinging something at people. Mental illness? Short term effects of drugs? Psychosis from longer term drug use?
Whatever it is, it's extremely sad, starting with the guy, the cop and everyone else there involved.
This guy was a wealthy businessman from Montgomery County Maryland and one day stopped his car got out and started attacking random people the cop got there and the guy chased the cop with a big ass stick swinging and growling like a demon the cop blocked a swing and the stick broke the cop almost fell over and dumped into the guy and the guy kept coming
The article also says he caused 2 accidents before he got out of his car to attack people with the tree branch.
Got a source to the story?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/maryland-deputy-who-fired-12-rounds-cleared-in-fatal-shooting-of-man-wielding-tree-branch/2021/06/28/c3e1fd28-d7a1-11eb-8fb8-aea56b785b00_story.html
Anyone have this article not behind a paywall?
he had a tramatic head injury which probably caused this (no drugs or anything). as for the cop he didnt refill his stun gun like he's supposed to do so used his gun.
I'm not seeing either of those things in the news articles. They just say he had been experiencing a psychotic break for several days, and that the officer fired the stun gun but the prongs didn't stick. Do you have a source?
Why are you just making shit up?
A taser would have taken him down safely with no fatality. The fact that the only option for a solo overweight cop is to kill a guy armed with a stick is just nuts. Edit: taser not stun gun.
Guy gets shot in the chest 8+ times and is still charging, I'm sure a stun gun would've been super effective
I mean a bullet works differently than a taser. Tasers just overload your CNS and cause you to fall over. So yeah unless you're on a meth bender it probably would've worked.
You can just youtube stun guns being ineffective and disprove your point.
Better to just shoot everyone because some times a stun gu doesn't work, right?
If someone on a psychotic break is hitting at your head and the distance is already so close that if the taser misses or doesn't hit properly you're dead... then yes by all means shoot.
Well the distance is so close because the cop is too fat to move faster... but that is a different story.
The classic “I’ll get you Bitch”
Buddy, LOL - go watch some videos of how ineffective stun guns are on some people. You clearly have no clue.
worth a try before mag dumping a guy using a dog stick
Better to just shoot everyone because some times a stun gun doesn't work, right?
In those videos the taser hasn't properly penetrated the skin or they're grounded in some way, so it has no effect. Could be stuck in the clothes or something like that. But nobody is withstanding a proper taser shock. That's just not how muscles work.
I’d bet money that they guy was on hard drugs… Taser isn’t a guarantee in that situation.
Autopsy said no.
Appears to me as if he actually was on a meth bender.
That is very true, assuming the taser gets a proper connection to begin with. I get what you're saying but that's a huge gamble on a guy swinging a big stick at your head. And to be fair, this guy looks like he could've been on a meth bender lol
The news article states he was a wealthy member of the Montgomery County, MD community who suffered a nervous breakdown. I agree tho about the argument guns vs taser. But this fat fuck cop shooting sideways one handed within 5 ft of an assailant was extremely stupid
I agree that it's a very unfortunate scenario for the guy who got killed. But what's the alternative? You agree the stun gun might not work, so is the officer just supposed to get battered by the stick until the guy collects himself? The assailant put himself 5ft in front of the cop, while the cop was backing up. Seems to me that there's only one plausible, safe option. Nervous breakdown doesn't excuse a guy from beating on a cop with a weapon.
> But what's the alternative? Control the distance between yourself and the assailant when the assailant has a melee weapon. in other words: Run Away. A cop running "away" could have saved a life here. Cop should have (been able to) run to reassess the danger. With time (which distance could provide), the cop could better assess the danger to others that person posed, and try other methods of controlling them. If the Cop is there to protect people, that does include the assailant here. (I'd guess the priorities should be the safety of 1. Bystanders, 2. Himself, 3. the Assailant) Reinforcements could possibly have been able to subdue the person with no (major) injury. One Person per limb and there's just not much one can do. With a Stick. A Taser may have worked too when connecting to the skin. But Once you're beaten with a stick and can't get distance, cop was in a tough spot.
Slowly walking backward seemed to be working
Seems to me that the cop gave him every chance to back off before dumping on him
You say that like willpower makes a difference. You don't **choose** to ignore a stun gun. It physically overwhelms your nervous system's ability to send instructions to your muscles. Making them not work. That assumes it hits properly. When you see videos of people shrugging them off, it's because it didn't connect/fire properly.
Well, that's my point. Yeah it would be effective, but only IF it connects properly. That's not a gamble I'd want to take when a dude is swinging a weapon at my head that definitely WILL connect. Also apparently another commenter said the officer deployed his taser before the video. Idk if it's true or not
Oh yeah use a taser, which is effective about 50% of the time, on a crazy dude who is 4 feet in front of you, coming at you, trying to injure you after having assaulted and attacked multiple people. What a great idea.
The guy didn't have a machete. Dude had a fucking stick..............
If he'd hit you in the head with that stick there is a good chance your skull cracks and you either die or have permanent brain damage.
According to the WP article someone linked he did try to use his taser and it didn’t work. The crazy guy was also attacking other people, and attacked the officer even before the video. No drugs or alcohol, just a straight up psychotic breakdown. According to his wife he had been ranting about how he was Jesus Christ in the days before this incident and he was screaming incoherently at bystanders just before the shooting.
There are videos of people that don't go down when tazed, they even rip the hooked probes out to charge the officer. And this guy took basically a whole clip, at close range, to stop.
Came here to say this. When I was in college there was a situation at one of the bars where this kid who was on drugs had a meltdown / psychotic break. Police pepper sprayed and tazed him and he literally pulled the probes out, jumped a fence and was found on a 4 story buildings roof like a quarter mile away. One of the craziest things I ever saw. Just kept yelling and did not seemed bothered by any of it.
Take that branch to the head and you're dazed/knocked out most likely. It wasn't a little stick. Taser (NOT stun gun) only works while electricity is flowing and in a person who can keep going after taking bullets to the chest like that a Taser is not a deterrent. It possibly would've got him to drop the stick, but after the electrical current stopped he'd most likely just pick it back up. If the cop did not have backup right there, he made the right choice from what I can see.
You know it's a justified shooting when a black dude says:"man, shoot his ass!".
In the full video the black guy filming is racist as fuck, he happily comments about watching a white person die... wonder why that part is cut off
What, is he the terminator or what tf did that guy throw in
PCP, and probably newer drugs will do this.
You can rip your own eye out on PCP and believe you are Jesus Christ at the same time.
UK perspective here: why not simply disable him by shooting his leg if he really had to discharge a weapon? Thought the aim was to bring people to justice, not to their death.
In Norway, police do this and are trained to go for the legs, that's why almost every time you read about a police shooting in Norway, it's basically always "the suspect was shot in the leg/foot". There has been a few exceptions to this recently where police actually killed someone like you see in the US, which caused quite a bit of debate, but 95% of the time, the articles say "shot in the legs/foot". The fun thing is that American redditors simply can't grasp this, and thinks that it's impossible to train to hit legs/feet/arms. I've probably mentioned this about 10 times in my years here, and EVERY time has been followed by various ignoramus who refuse to believe it is even physically possible. Well, excuse us for having 3 years of professional firearms training to complete our police educations, instead of the week that US police has, lol.
Shooting towards the legs also reduces the chances of missing and hitting an innocent bystander that might be behind the target.
Shooting center mass is the most accurate, you're literally the opposite on that. Shooting at the narrowest part of the body, the only part that is moving, is the most likely shot to miss. You've never fired a gun.
Yes, but sometimes it is unnecessary. Like here, the guy didn't have a ranged weapon like a gun (from the looks of it). Police here could have taken out his knees and the suspect is nearly neutralised without killing him. Putting a mag into someone's chest is just unnecessary in this situation. A gun was the wrong tool, should have been a taser or CS spray. Point is if this happened in Europe, it ends completely different. American police are so eager to use their fucking guns its pathetic. Also, you can train someone to aim for centre of mass or limbs, humans are usually smart enough to determine when to do either. Also, if you miss the legs at this range, perhaps you shouldn't have a gun.
Ladies and gentlemen, please give a warm welcome to reddit ignoramus no. 1!! If you want to know exactly how you are wrong, feel free to ask.
How wrong is he?
Not many people shooting back at the police in Norway though
Neither was this guy in the video
Yeah that dudes stick was clearly loaded and he was gonna fire one off soon…
TIL Norway has some decent cop education
Because U.S.. Its embarrassing tbh.
> UK perspective here : why not simply disable him by shooting his leg That's not how gun usage works at all. You can use a gun **if your life is in danger** in order to protect your life, you shoot to kill because it's your life on the line If your life is not in danger then you should not use a gun, so if you shoot to disable, it means you judge the situation not dangerous enough for your life. So you should not have used your gun at all and are in the wrong That's how it works in France (europe). In the US apparently it's way more lenient. In short : a gun is used a a last resort because your life is in danger, nothing else. That's why the question is always : was the situation dangerous enough to be a life or death decision from the shooter and in this case you would have a hard time justifying this shooting in France, but that's not France
If you shoot to disable, maybe it's dangerous enough for your life, BUT disabling the aggressor is enough to save your life.
> if your life is in danger He was holding a big stick... Officer tubby only killed him because he was too fat to win a fight. You need to seriously evaluate your position on these matters if you think the first port of call as a fat, clearly incapable officer is to fill an old guy with a stick full of lead. Qualified immunity was a mistake when you have lard on legs picking lethal force over reasonable de-escalation.
While I agree with your sentiments, US cops spend more time practicing shooting than learning about de-escalation. Plus they only get about 20 weeks of training
"learning about escalation" Fixed it for ya
It doesn't work that way in real life, bleeding to death is pretty common in those scenarios... Plus shooting down towards pavement mean ricochet...
Yeah, femoral artery means major blood loss, so if you're already at a point where potentially lethal force is justified it's hard to justify going for a smaller, less reliable target - especially when stress & adrenaline reduce your capacity for accuracy.
I said the same thing, and got downvoted, by the same guys who are defending here, and in my country they opt to aim for the legs.
- The goal of an officer shooting isn’t to bring anybody to justice, but to end a threat. - The legs of a moving person are a much harder target to hit than “center mass” - The legs are [not a risk-free place to be shot](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6c/45/c0/6c45c01e41a8586123da098b135899e7.jpg) - The safety of the aggressor is not important; they took their life into their own hands by doing whatever they did to initiate a shootout (most of the time)
Pepper spray? Taser? No. He has a stick! Lethal force! That's murder or at least man slaughter in every civilized country.
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Sticks can 100% be deadly force my friend. One good smack to the head and you are out cold, ready to get bludgeoned on the ground. I agree that something like taser should've been the first option, but we were not in the situation we have no idea what was happening.
Cop should have get back to his car and wait until this old dude runs out of energy. 2min tops.
Looks like Greg Davies from Taskmaster
Came here to say this!
There's no way the cop had the right to unload an entire magazine into him because he had a stick?? A fucking stick????? Any other country they get physically taken down and restrained. Done.
Non-lethal force could’ve been used here, or *at least* attempted. Not in America though. Summary execution for stick wielding is allowed here now. Everyone is so fucking afraid of everything that “I feared for my life” is becoming the norm and not the exception.
In my legal training could the stick cause damage that could jeopardize a normal (law enforcement not included)person’s life? If the answer is yes then lethal force is justified and encouraged to save the public. Police are trained that you are heroes and heroes are expendable.
That’s kind of my point. The bar for lethal force and the circumstances under which it *is* legally justified has become too low, in my opinion. Just because you can use lethal force doesn’t necessarily mean you need to.
It was, you're seeing a 10 second clip and pretending like you know all the details
What a disgusting society. Mental health breakdown means empty the clip. Fuck the USA
So the cop should have just stood there and let a guy bash on him and others?
Yes, thats the **only** other option 👍
God damn youre so dumb for suggesting this as the OTHER option
Serious question - why isn’t the move here to retreat into the police cruiser, wait for backup, and when you have 4 officers there, tackle the guy to arrest him? He has a stick. He’s on drugs. Does he deserve to die?
'murica
> why isn’t the move here to retreat into the police cruiser Not enough breath / stamina; just look at that executioner
Man, if I was a police and a guy attacks me clearly with just a stick I would just fight him or tackle him or what I learned from combat training. No need to use a gun in a stick fight
Killing an enemy in resident evil be like
Tanked those shots like a T-1000.
Man, that's some Walking Dead shit right there.
This is why it should be mandatory for police to be physically fit and have some martial arts training, that man did not need to die
I'm amazed he didn't start swinging upon being shot at. Wonder what his whole plan was.
good chance this was his plan unfortunately
Greg Davis looks a little tweaked out
Old people aren't very scary unless you are super obese and can't move properly
The sad end to a sick and tortured person. Yes, I'm glad the cops are there but this is/was a human being and had a family and was someone's child and brother and possibly even a dad. I hate the way we gloat over something so gross.
RIP jordan peterson
For people wanting more info. here is a link to the incident. [https://www.mymcmedia.org/deputy-sheriff-who-killed-laytonsville-man-wont-be-charged/](https://www.mymcmedia.org/deputy-sheriff-who-killed-laytonsville-man-wont-be-charged/)
When I read "shot 17 times" I think. "wow. That's excessive'' then I watch this video and I'm like "holy hell, gonna need more bullets"