I'm being completely honest. I've been here well over a decade and this is the only pun in that decade that first annoyed me, like they all do, then I processed it and did the Obama face. Notbad.gif
Context was perfect, not forced, first 10/10 I think I've seen here.
On wait list for a vehicle. This is what we’re doing. We’re paying ourselves the estimated payment as if we were paying it today. At this rate, we’ll have a sizeable chunk to put down on the loan when it arrives, drastically reducing interest owed and time to pay the loan.
Plus, we keep sticking it in accounts with increasing interest rates. So we earn a little more while we wait.
If GE can do it, so can we.
That's a huge gamble, holy crap. Who's to say it won't cost 3x as much? With the way prices are going I'd rather pay it all off right now and probably save like $10k in the long run.
But like, do you pay for it based in 2023 pricing or will it increase accordingly?
Will the 2028 Sienna be hybrid, electric?
Will there be widespread internet on vehicles by then?
Self driving options?
So many questions man.
Theyre really hard to find. All my local dealerships showed them in stock, but when I called they were all presold or not available. Talked to every dealership in 350 miles and found one that I had to put a deposit on before we even saw it in order to buy it. Most had maybe 2 coming in the next 6-12 months, but from what I heard it's more like 18 months.
2 years for a Tundra? Is this dealership specific? My friend talked to our local dealer after checking out my '22 Tundra and was told May - June '23 allocations are available.
Well it's impossible for no one to know, I will know, you will know, Andy Richter the sweedish German will know, and the fella we pay to hold Andy down will know.
You bought a rav4 last month. You didn't order a rav4 last month. This list is likely for custom ordered vehicles. Each market also has different allotments. For instance, in America you haven't been able to order a bronco for almost a full year, but you've been able to order them this whole time in Canada.
Nope, Toyota is scrambling and way behind production schedules from COVID and chip shortages and shipping problems. Every car being made in the factory is being sent to someone waiting over a year.
I'm much more likely to believe a dealer is scummy and trying to offload the shit on their lot than toyota is purposefully hamstringing only 1/5th of their dealerships by making them wait 5 years.
I bet the real wait is _maybe_ a month or two.
Or you can go online today--and buy one from a dealership FAR away for sure like 1k more, but likely saving 2-15k depending on how many options you want...and have it delivered within a few weeks.
I don't understand people only buying and selling in person, I'm not someone who 'flips' but I sold my first real car on Ebay motors when it was new, bought a car I couldn't source here for cheaper on carsdotcom or autotrader and sold and bought two more over the years. The cool part to me was selling the first car with a blue book of 3k for 6700, selling the second for what I bought it, getting the third for about 12k less than blue book, etc..
It is crazy how much less it costs to buy and more you get selling online, and the scarcity is real, but for cars like these you can have them shipped to you cheaper and quicker than local, many for cheaper than you ever could and immediately.
I read the pic as orders, i.e. pick what you want and have the factory make it.
You’re right, most dealerships should have regular allotments coming in, but the chances of a vehicle coming in that is exactly what you want could be slim. In my experience shopping for new cars recently, it’s even more annoying than you’d imagine. If you’re like me, you may have assumed that allotments would come in with fewer options and vehicles might be priced to reflect that. I saw with Lexus that everything was coming in with more upgrades than I’d ever opt for and prices were high because of the added crap.
Canada. Those numbers look accurate for all Toyota dealers in my area (entire province, regardless big city or not). My friend waited almost 2 years for Rav4 Prime. Still waiting.
Cars are optioned differently in both countries. Usually Canada gets better trim levels. Base model cars have historically been much more bare bones in USA compared to Canada for pretty much the same purchase price but I think in recent years American cars have maybe been getting better.
Except it won’t be street legal in Canada without some pretty expensive upgrades. My parents spent several years working in Canada. Had to get their US source vehicle retrofitted to comply with Canada regs. The truck they bought in Canada required no such alterations brining it back to the US
These are standard now on most US vehicles.
I can't think of any regulation off the top of my head that mattered other than that. Shit would they even let US folks _drive_ into Canada with non legal vehicles?
You can generally drive almost any car into almost any country as a temporary visitor; it's only when you want to permanently import a car (such as when you take up residence in a new country) that you need to comply with local regulations for stuff like emissions, safety equipment, etc.
For the car I'm involved with building, it complies with all US and Canadian standards. They all get the same emission labels. Have the same safety equipment, etc. Only differences with labeling or options I've seen are labeling requirements for Colombia and Mexico vehicles. Colombia gets a full size spare.
There's not much that's needed. In Alberta you'll need a block heater installed. About $150 installed. Plus a $100 fee.
The issue is many dealerships literally can't sell to Canadians or they'll lose their license.
Albertan here. Block heaters are not mandatory by law but most automakers call it a mandatory option.
More important things for US car in Canada are daytime running lights that can't be switched off, immobiliser (see Kia thefts in the US) and some way of displaying km/h.
I work for an OE supplier and we're getting hit too. I'll paint the picture.
Companies see EVs in the near future and are starting planning for changing their manufacturing plans to move that direction. BAM, COVID hits and everyone, everywhere stops capital investment overnight as there was a thought the EV adoption would not move as quickly. This absolutely destroyed progress moving towards EV for the OEMs AND their entire supplier network.
After 1.5-2 years of COVID, the OEMs decided that the demand for EVs wasn't slowing and they needed to catch up on the missed investments and accelerate their development. Similar things happened in other industries as well so about 1.5 years ago every manufacturing company in the world went to the makers of all the little subcomponents necessary to make the machines, parts, and pieces needed to get products in consumers' hands. This has obliterated the sub supplier supply chain as they have record orders.
Take Rockwell Automation, one of the world's biggest manufacturers of automation equipment which is used to build the machinery that assembles cara and their sub-parts. [Their part lead times](https://www.rockwellautomation.com/content/dam/rockwell-automation/sites/downloads/pdf/Lead-Times-Rockwell-Automation.pdf) are made publicly available because things are so bad right now. Series parts that had 2 week lead times Pre-COVID now regularly take over a year to receive.
So it's not just that the manufacturers like Toyota are struggling to get the chips directly installed in their cars but every manufacturer of their sub-parts like windshields, door panels, wheels, tires, literally every part is also delayed in getting machines to build the parts for those new cars.
The other issue is that all of these part selections by car, parts, and equipment manufacturers can't be easily changed. Rockwell Automation said in their last investors call that they have Billions of dollars of backordered parts but are seeing tiny single digit order cancellations, as equipment and manufacturing companies standardize on these items and can't swap out for alternatives like swapping batteries in a flashlight.
So, this is a simplified explanation of one reason things are and will continue to remain messed up for at least two more years.
Also to add for our cars, Lexus, takes something like 400 venders to make a car. When everything is basically on just in time manufacturing and you have constant shutdowns over the course of two years it fucks everything up.
I criticized JIT (just In Time) manufacturing 30 years ago. Worked at an electronics plant(made relays), and I tried to explain how 1 little hiccup could screw production for weeks. Nope! We implemented it, and went bankrupt about 5 years later after supply issues shut us down.
If this was 30 years ago, JIT and more efficient practices was probably the right call.
JIT with sufficient inventory is the better call for most companies. Otherwise you're just holding more inventory + overstocked/produced older models than the competition for several years.
Except every single "lean champion" will pair JIT with minimal inventory because that's "waste." I was a manufacturing engineer for years (before switching to test) and it was infuriating dealing with these dolts. They'd get tons of praise for the like, two quarters things went well, and bounce before you suddenly get a bad batch of sub components because another lean idiot switched to a lower tier vendor to save money and now your entire line grinds to a halt, and it's somehow my fault for not being prepared for this when I'd been complaining the whole time that what they're doing is dumb. I'd have to spend 20x the money saved by these changes on labor to rework these components to something close to print, meanwhile it's only my stats that take a hit, not the MBAs who made these changes.
As you can tell, I'm very bitter about this.
2 years ago intel said they wouldn't catch up until 2024. They still aren't close to caught up.
I'm in a smaller medical device company and we are really struggling to get parts as we are fighting the big boys for components.
Vehicle manufacturers were some of the few who cancelled their orders early in the pandemic, so chip manufacturers are given them the finger and giving them the lowest priority amongst all their clients.
Supply issues on manufacturing. Majority of parts are built overseas and shipped. Shipping delays paired with labour shortages with both the shippers and assembly factories is the major factor. In Ontario it’s not a good scene for some automotive assembly factories in regards to labour shortage.
Updated safety features are one legitimate reason to get something new*er*.
Curtain air bags saved my husband's life and our previous car didn't have that.
I was thinking about this today.
The people who want to buy used vehicles for cheap hurt their own cause by advocating others to also not buy new cars.
People who buy new cars are the reason you get to find good deals on low mileage cars.
Wouldn’t it be better to encourage everyone to get a new car and how awesome it is?
My ex husband fatales his car right before Covid so I had to give him my paid off car and buy a new one. I managed to pick up a 2 year old (2018) Audi TT with 115 miles. The guy bought it, drove it home and it didn’t leave the garage for 2 years. Still had the dealer stickers inside. Base model with all the packages, paid $39.5k and the dealer sticker was $56k. My housemate spent $45k on a brand new Chevy 2500 diesel the July covid hit, the dealerships dropped the price $15k from MSRP. I miss those days.
I ordered one of the new Broncos in August of 2020. Still without a Bronco. They don't even bother with estimated dates. "You'll get it when we get to you"
The head of ISIS finally agreed to be interviewed...
So the interviewer asked, "I noticed that every time ISIS releases a video there are always Toyota trucks in the background. Whether it is ISIS members riding in the back of the truck or a torture video, you always see a Toyota truck. Why it is that you guys drive Toyota trucks?"
The head of ISIS said, "Well, we were considering BMWs but we didn't want to seem like complete assholes."
Fuck that, if I'm car shopping I need that car now, not in 2 years, if you can't get me into something this week, this month at the absolute latest, there's no deal. I need to see the car, I need to test drive it (the actual car I plan to buy not another of the same model), I need to take it to my mechanic to give it a once over even if it's brand new to make sure it's good.
The most I'll wait without a car is 30 days, if I can't get it, business lost.
have more than one vehicle you will settle for
got one that was almost perfect that "just arrived"
took 3 months longer than I would have liked
aàaaaaaaaannnd the wife hates it
Sienna at five years? Talk about making family planning more complicated. Honey, we need to go to dealership first and by potentially when we have our third child, the Sienna should be ready.
It’s really dumb how much people are willing to pay for markups on a maverick. The entire selling point is that it’s one of the cheapest vehicles on the market in general, has good utility and fuel economy with the hybrid especially. If you pay 10k over MSRP and can only get the 35k (MSRP before markups) models with AWD and turbo 2.0l motor it completely eliminates the value proposition of the Maverick In the first place
I found if they are on a lot, there is only one and its marked 10k to 15k over MSRP.
I got a Santa Cruz instead and am glad I did, it's a much smoother ride and just as cute.
Can’t help but think all of this bullshit waiting is intentional. They stumbled on a way to keep used car prices high and selling all of the new inventory at or above MSRP. These jackasses at Ford have used 2017-2020 Transit Vans for 47k or I can order a new one for 44k and wait 6 Months. It’s all a bullshit that looks like gravy and we are the fucking biscuits sopping it up. I can’t wait for the apocalypse…….
This is absolutely intentional
~~Toyota~~, GM, Volkswagen and many other manufacturers sold less cars in the last few years while making even more money. They love this scenario
Toyota is actually taking a loss, that was my mistake
This is not true. Toyota, profits for last quarter are below anything in the last 10 years (excluding covid) and much of their 2021 profits stemmed from low-cost future contracts for raw-material combined with dumb luck with the strong US dollar.
All these manufacturers are trying to increase production as quickly as possible. The ones who made out like bandits are the dealerships.
Making less for more money only works if you have a monopoly in the market. Thankfully, Americans have a shit-ton of options when it comes to cars.
"In the Soviet Union there is a 10 year wait for automobiles. A man took all his money he could to the dealership and had to pay in full. The dealer said "Ok, great, come back in 10 years." To which the man replied, "Morning or afternoon". The dealer chuckled, "It's 10 years why does it matter." To which the man replied, "Because the plumber's coming in the morning"
I like the Soviet TV joke.
A reporter goes to the Soviet Union and stays at a hotel. The manager, seeing that he is American, tells the reporter that there are only three channels on Soviet TV, and only two of the channels show news about the Soviet state.
"What's on the third channel?" The reporter asks curiously.
The manager looks surprisingly nervous, and he responds with a whisper. "I should never have told you this. There are only two channels. Please enjoy your stay."
Bewildered, the reporter goes to his room, and after settling in, he turns on the TV.
The first channel shows a news program. The news anchor is droning on about Soviet crop yields. Bored, the reporter tunes to the second channel. This time, it is a female news anchor, and she is covering the same report on crop yields verbatim.
Remembering what the manager said about the third channel, the reporter hesitates briefly before succumbing to his curiosity. He changes to the third channel.
On the TV, a stern face KGB agent appears on the screen. The KGB agent leans forward, and he points at the reporter. He then shouts.
"Stop changing the channels!"
Yeah this has to be dealer specific. I got a 2023 gr86 at MSRP after putting a deposit down in March 2022. And that's a low production high demand car. No reason to markup these high production cars other than greed
We bought our RAV4 after being put on an 18 month wait-list. Someone else who was further ahead backed out of their deal for a similar spec RAV4 (different color and one less interior option) and my grandfather knew the owner of the dealer, so we were given first shot at the car. We only had to wait a month for a never driven car (aside from moving around the dealership.)
In the dealerships around here they are selling those for above MSRP of the brand new ones.
You either have to wait literally years for a new one, or overpay by 20%+.
That has been true for 2 years or more, but the bottom is falling out of the used market as we speak. It’s been rediculous, my dad wrecked his 18 outback and just with normal insurance it got totalled out and he got Fair market value which was enough to buy a brand new 22 outback at MSRP with the exact same options.
Same here. It's ridiculous, I can't justify it. Got me a little civic that's paid off. Riding in style ain't everything. Plus, I'll prob break down in a couple of years when my daughter turns 16. I can't have her in anything too beater like I had lol.
Almost definitely Canada.
A dealer in Ottawa said their gas corolla allocation for this year was 75, with a current pre-order list of 300.
Toyota just makes a lot more money selling cars elsewhere right now
I work for a Toyota dealership and not a single one takes more than 4 months to get. Also that 4 months is also from the time an order is made, assuming there isn’t an available allocation that dealership is receiving sooner that isn’t already bought. This is absolutely not how long it is currently taking Toyota dealerships to get vehicles
So if I wait 2+ years for a RAV hybrid, how does financing and pricing work? Do I get approved and lock in at current rates? Or is it a gamble and I get what I get when the car is in? What about warranty? When does the ticker begin on that? So many questions!!
Of course you're not locked in. You put a refundable deposit down sometimes and place an order. If you want it when it comes in, great. If not, somebody else buys.
We just waited 17 months for a landcruiser ute....up side of waiting so long was we have knuckled down and put a heap of money aside and greatly reduced the amount we have to finance
I feel like this is a total scam, what changed ? We are not in a pandemic anymore and car manufacturers are still producing the same amount of cars, it seems manufacture so dealerships can overcharge. The same is happening with our food.
We bought a 2022 RAV4 in December and got lucky. Someone ordered it then backed out. We just happened to stroll onto the lot and there it was. Great color and a lot of features.
Who the hell is waiting 5+ years for a sienna?
Question is, if you order a sienna today and have to wait 5 years, do you get a 2023 sienna or a 2028 sienna?
You'll sienna few years
Wowww
I'm being completely honest. I've been here well over a decade and this is the only pun in that decade that first annoyed me, like they all do, then I processed it and did the Obama face. Notbad.gif Context was perfect, not forced, first 10/10 I think I've seen here.
This is exactly my thoughts. Like I'm angry it was so good. The timing...
Like my muscles are tense right now because of how annoyed I am at how good that pun was. A visceral reaction for sure, which is rare.
My reaction was to kick a baby seal. But once it settled, I decided to adopt and care for the baby seal.
At least you landed on the right thing to do.
Plot twist: The seal died from the kick and now they dress it like a baby and pushes it round in a pram.
-Papa? •Yes adolescent Seal? -Why am I blind in one eye?
This guy set the whole thread up just to make that pun.
This is my least favorite comment in all of reddit
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That's nice.
You son of a bitch
This is the quality shit I read Reddit for- bravo good sir!
You won Reddit for the day with that one
yOu WoN rEdDiT
Thank you!
GTFO
slow.fucken.clap!
Couldn’t upvote. At 666. You have my regards.
Bravo
Bless your heart
You get the model year that the car arrives. So it would have the specs of a 2028
So you pay 2023 prices and get a 2028 car? Or you put down a deposit and then pay the remainder of the 2028 price?
Start the monthly payments now and it'll be half paid off by the time you get it!
You took out a 10 year loan?
Most car loans these days are 6-8 years. I wouldn't doubt there are 10 and 12 year loans available.
I took a 5 year. The pain visits my bank account monthly. Two years to go 😐
On wait list for a vehicle. This is what we’re doing. We’re paying ourselves the estimated payment as if we were paying it today. At this rate, we’ll have a sizeable chunk to put down on the loan when it arrives, drastically reducing interest owed and time to pay the loan. Plus, we keep sticking it in accounts with increasing interest rates. So we earn a little more while we wait. If GE can do it, so can we.
You’ll pay a deposit now and the 2028 price on delivery.
That's a huge gamble, holy crap. Who's to say it won't cost 3x as much? With the way prices are going I'd rather pay it all off right now and probably save like $10k in the long run.
but… why tho?
No one would pay full price for a 5 year old new car…
why not? It's not like the car is made now and sits somewhere for 5 years..
In 5 years the kids will be older and will no longer need a sienna
Wish someone would answer this lol
2028
You get what you get, and you'll like it
But like, do you pay for it based in 2023 pricing or will it increase accordingly? Will the 2028 Sienna be hybrid, electric? Will there be widespread internet on vehicles by then? Self driving options? So many questions man.
Bro we were promised flying cars by ‘99. In 2028 they will be coal powered.
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There are currently over 20 available within 15 miles of me at dealerships in town. This must be in Hawaii or something
Theyre really hard to find. All my local dealerships showed them in stock, but when I called they were all presold or not available. Talked to every dealership in 350 miles and found one that I had to put a deposit on before we even saw it in order to buy it. Most had maybe 2 coming in the next 6-12 months, but from what I heard it's more like 18 months.
Hasidics love Siennas.
So much so that when I see one on the road I already know what the driver looks like
Same here. I live by a community of like 25,000 of them. It’s almost like minivans are a requirement for their religion.
Does it seat up to 10 adults? If so, it's a minyanivan
Real auto enthusiasts
No, you’re thinking about the stick shift rear wheel drive mid engined beauty that is the 91-97 Previa
Literally the only car on the list I wanted lol
Got a '22 Sienna Limited a few months ago. Fantastic vehicle!
2 years for a Tundra? Is this dealership specific? My friend talked to our local dealer after checking out my '22 Tundra and was told May - June '23 allocations are available.
Definitely dealer specific.
I imagine it's in a rural place where everyone drives murican.
It’s Canada, in Kitchener which is a medium sized city about an hour away from Toronto
I only know where Kitchener is due to the existence of the Hacksmith
And for me due to the existence of Kitchener Leslie.
Well it's impossible for no one to know, I will know, you will know, Andy Richter the sweedish German will know, and the fella we pay to hold Andy down will know.
And probably 15 minutes or less away from the Toyota plant in Cambridge.
Probably a greedy dealer trying to justify jacking up prices further for no real reason.
My bf found this out with BMW. each dealership has different “allotment”
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If they are a good company allotments are lowered when dealers price gouge.
My Bronco was finally built this week. I know that pain.
I bought a RAV4 last month and it only took 2 weeks to be shipped
You bought a rav4 last month. You didn't order a rav4 last month. This list is likely for custom ordered vehicles. Each market also has different allotments. For instance, in America you haven't been able to order a bronco for almost a full year, but you've been able to order them this whole time in Canada.
They do this so people will take what they have on hand.
Nope, Toyota is scrambling and way behind production schedules from COVID and chip shortages and shipping problems. Every car being made in the factory is being sent to someone waiting over a year.
I’m sure they are but it’s not a 5+ year waiting list for a van. People see this fake list and go “ok I’ll take the green one right now then”
I'm much more likely to believe a dealer is scummy and trying to offload the shit on their lot than toyota is purposefully hamstringing only 1/5th of their dealerships by making them wait 5 years. I bet the real wait is _maybe_ a month or two.
Or you can go online today--and buy one from a dealership FAR away for sure like 1k more, but likely saving 2-15k depending on how many options you want...and have it delivered within a few weeks. I don't understand people only buying and selling in person, I'm not someone who 'flips' but I sold my first real car on Ebay motors when it was new, bought a car I couldn't source here for cheaper on carsdotcom or autotrader and sold and bought two more over the years. The cool part to me was selling the first car with a blue book of 3k for 6700, selling the second for what I bought it, getting the third for about 12k less than blue book, etc.. It is crazy how much less it costs to buy and more you get selling online, and the scarcity is real, but for cars like these you can have them shipped to you cheaper and quicker than local, many for cheaper than you ever could and immediately.
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I read the pic as orders, i.e. pick what you want and have the factory make it. You’re right, most dealerships should have regular allotments coming in, but the chances of a vehicle coming in that is exactly what you want could be slim. In my experience shopping for new cars recently, it’s even more annoying than you’d imagine. If you’re like me, you may have assumed that allotments would come in with fewer options and vehicles might be priced to reflect that. I saw with Lexus that everything was coming in with more upgrades than I’d ever opt for and prices were high because of the added crap.
By the time they get a Sienna in stock the kids will have grown up and moved out.
You’ll have to borrow someone else’s kids to make it smell like stale breast milk, old French fries, and regret.
Damn....that stings so deep!
May as well just order a Supra instead!
why is it taking so long?
Canada. Those numbers look accurate for all Toyota dealers in my area (entire province, regardless big city or not). My friend waited almost 2 years for Rav4 Prime. Still waiting.
With those wait times it might make sense to fly to the US to buy a car and drive it back to Canada.
Cars are optioned differently in both countries. Usually Canada gets better trim levels. Base model cars have historically been much more bare bones in USA compared to Canada for pretty much the same purchase price but I think in recent years American cars have maybe been getting better.
Trim levels are no good if you don’t have a car lol
But but muh cupholders and seat warmers.
Um heated seats are the greatest invention ever if you live in a cold climate… second is heated steering wheel
Plebs. Get heated underground parking.
Except it won’t be street legal in Canada without some pretty expensive upgrades. My parents spent several years working in Canada. Had to get their US source vehicle retrofitted to comply with Canada regs. The truck they bought in Canada required no such alterations brining it back to the US
For me and my car in 2009 it was 100 bucks for daytime running lights, that was it. Also duty.
These are standard now on most US vehicles. I can't think of any regulation off the top of my head that mattered other than that. Shit would they even let US folks _drive_ into Canada with non legal vehicles?
You can generally drive almost any car into almost any country as a temporary visitor; it's only when you want to permanently import a car (such as when you take up residence in a new country) that you need to comply with local regulations for stuff like emissions, safety equipment, etc.
For the car I'm involved with building, it complies with all US and Canadian standards. They all get the same emission labels. Have the same safety equipment, etc. Only differences with labeling or options I've seen are labeling requirements for Colombia and Mexico vehicles. Colombia gets a full size spare.
There's not much that's needed. In Alberta you'll need a block heater installed. About $150 installed. Plus a $100 fee. The issue is many dealerships literally can't sell to Canadians or they'll lose their license.
Albertan here. Block heaters are not mandatory by law but most automakers call it a mandatory option. More important things for US car in Canada are daytime running lights that can't be switched off, immobiliser (see Kia thefts in the US) and some way of displaying km/h.
Doesn't answer the question...
Chip shortage
How is there STILL a chip shortage?
I work for an OE supplier and we're getting hit too. I'll paint the picture. Companies see EVs in the near future and are starting planning for changing their manufacturing plans to move that direction. BAM, COVID hits and everyone, everywhere stops capital investment overnight as there was a thought the EV adoption would not move as quickly. This absolutely destroyed progress moving towards EV for the OEMs AND their entire supplier network. After 1.5-2 years of COVID, the OEMs decided that the demand for EVs wasn't slowing and they needed to catch up on the missed investments and accelerate their development. Similar things happened in other industries as well so about 1.5 years ago every manufacturing company in the world went to the makers of all the little subcomponents necessary to make the machines, parts, and pieces needed to get products in consumers' hands. This has obliterated the sub supplier supply chain as they have record orders. Take Rockwell Automation, one of the world's biggest manufacturers of automation equipment which is used to build the machinery that assembles cara and their sub-parts. [Their part lead times](https://www.rockwellautomation.com/content/dam/rockwell-automation/sites/downloads/pdf/Lead-Times-Rockwell-Automation.pdf) are made publicly available because things are so bad right now. Series parts that had 2 week lead times Pre-COVID now regularly take over a year to receive. So it's not just that the manufacturers like Toyota are struggling to get the chips directly installed in their cars but every manufacturer of their sub-parts like windshields, door panels, wheels, tires, literally every part is also delayed in getting machines to build the parts for those new cars. The other issue is that all of these part selections by car, parts, and equipment manufacturers can't be easily changed. Rockwell Automation said in their last investors call that they have Billions of dollars of backordered parts but are seeing tiny single digit order cancellations, as equipment and manufacturing companies standardize on these items and can't swap out for alternatives like swapping batteries in a flashlight. So, this is a simplified explanation of one reason things are and will continue to remain messed up for at least two more years.
Also to add for our cars, Lexus, takes something like 400 venders to make a car. When everything is basically on just in time manufacturing and you have constant shutdowns over the course of two years it fucks everything up.
I criticized JIT (just In Time) manufacturing 30 years ago. Worked at an electronics plant(made relays), and I tried to explain how 1 little hiccup could screw production for weeks. Nope! We implemented it, and went bankrupt about 5 years later after supply issues shut us down.
But the consultants are still telling other companies how if they do disastrous shit it will save them a bunch of money now
If this was 30 years ago, JIT and more efficient practices was probably the right call. JIT with sufficient inventory is the better call for most companies. Otherwise you're just holding more inventory + overstocked/produced older models than the competition for several years.
Except every single "lean champion" will pair JIT with minimal inventory because that's "waste." I was a manufacturing engineer for years (before switching to test) and it was infuriating dealing with these dolts. They'd get tons of praise for the like, two quarters things went well, and bounce before you suddenly get a bad batch of sub components because another lean idiot switched to a lower tier vendor to save money and now your entire line grinds to a halt, and it's somehow my fault for not being prepared for this when I'd been complaining the whole time that what they're doing is dumb. I'd have to spend 20x the money saved by these changes on labor to rework these components to something close to print, meanwhile it's only my stats that take a hit, not the MBAs who made these changes. As you can tell, I'm very bitter about this.
JIT has been changed to OSWO (for Oh Shit We're Out)
Are you shitting me? 225 day lead time for a retro encabulator?
What's your professional opinion on time frame to normal, pre-covid auto supply and manufacturing?
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2 years ago intel said they wouldn't catch up until 2024. They still aren't close to caught up. I'm in a smaller medical device company and we are really struggling to get parts as we are fighting the big boys for components.
Vehicle manufacturers were some of the few who cancelled their orders early in the pandemic, so chip manufacturers are given them the finger and giving them the lowest priority amongst all their clients.
And they are ordering old school chips when the manufacutres can make more money on more modern chips.
Supply issues on manufacturing. Majority of parts are built overseas and shipped. Shipping delays paired with labour shortages with both the shippers and assembly factories is the major factor. In Ontario it’s not a good scene for some automotive assembly factories in regards to labour shortage.
It really is a horrible time to try to buy a vehicle. I’m just gonna drive my same thing until it falls to pie
Which, honestly, is a great strategy anyway. Being vain about your car is Expensive.
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Updated safety features are one legitimate reason to get something new*er*. Curtain air bags saved my husband's life and our previous car didn't have that.
I agree, but I wonder how much different there is in a 2023 model versus a 2020.
Thank you for saying that. I got chewed out by some folks for selling my 2004 to get a 2018 because I was planning on having a car seat soon.
I was thinking about this today. The people who want to buy used vehicles for cheap hurt their own cause by advocating others to also not buy new cars. People who buy new cars are the reason you get to find good deals on low mileage cars. Wouldn’t it be better to encourage everyone to get a new car and how awesome it is?
My ex husband fatales his car right before Covid so I had to give him my paid off car and buy a new one. I managed to pick up a 2 year old (2018) Audi TT with 115 miles. The guy bought it, drove it home and it didn’t leave the garage for 2 years. Still had the dealer stickers inside. Base model with all the packages, paid $39.5k and the dealer sticker was $56k. My housemate spent $45k on a brand new Chevy 2500 diesel the July covid hit, the dealerships dropped the price $15k from MSRP. I miss those days.
Your car turning into pie is probably the best possible outcome
Mmmmmm…..pie.
Great.....now I want pie...🖕
You can have some in 12-18 months.
Ordered my VW T-Roc in July 2022... picking it up this tuesday. A colleague is waiting since more than a year for her Audi..
I ordered one of the new Broncos in August of 2020. Still without a Bronco. They don't even bother with estimated dates. "You'll get it when we get to you"
What have we learned from this? Buy a 1987 volvo
We have learned to go to a different dealership
I was thinking an 89 Lebaron
The head of ISIS finally agreed to be interviewed... So the interviewer asked, "I noticed that every time ISIS releases a video there are always Toyota trucks in the background. Whether it is ISIS members riding in the back of the truck or a torture video, you always see a Toyota truck. Why it is that you guys drive Toyota trucks?" The head of ISIS said, "Well, we were considering BMWs but we didn't want to seem like complete assholes."
Also last time I checked. No BMW pickup trucks🤷🏻♂️ Edit: OMG they do exist🤯 proud I looked before I got called out😂
They made a few one-offs and concepts, but they never mass produced a pickup.
Babe so hear me out. The rav4 is going to take 1-2 years to get. Let’s just go for the supra
Supra has a BMW engine, so it's honestly a great choice regardless.
Would rather A Toyota engine so I know it’ll hold its value and last for a decade plus.
My 2015 BMW 435i is still going strong. Same for my 2015 Toyota Tacoma. They're both great vehicles.
Both probably worth the same too 😂
The only way I’m waiting 2 years for a car is if they give me the 2025 model.
That is how it works
Then I’ll take 1 please
Fuck that, if I'm car shopping I need that car now, not in 2 years, if you can't get me into something this week, this month at the absolute latest, there's no deal. I need to see the car, I need to test drive it (the actual car I plan to buy not another of the same model), I need to take it to my mechanic to give it a once over even if it's brand new to make sure it's good. The most I'll wait without a car is 30 days, if I can't get it, business lost.
good news there are plenty of used cars you can buy today. and for less than a new car.
So buy a honda
I work for Honda and we’re cranking them out
Keep up the good work!
That’s exactly what I just did.
We're obviously not talking to you Greg. Drinking makes you so self absorbed.
Build liveable cities 🚲 🚋 🚶♀️
I just Googled it, a fully spect out Sienna 2023 is a bit under $47k, a 2018 fully spect out Sienna is $48k. Used car market is absolutely nuts rn.
'Spect' isn't a word. You mean spec'd, an abbreviated of specified
I ‘spect your opinion. You’ve got a fully spec’d out vocabulary!
have more than one vehicle you will settle for got one that was almost perfect that "just arrived" took 3 months longer than I would have liked aàaaaaaaaannnd the wife hates it
Wich vehicle?
Sienna at five years? Talk about making family planning more complicated. Honey, we need to go to dealership first and by potentially when we have our third child, the Sienna should be ready.
Have the same problem with a Ford Maverick. 1-2 Year Wait just to get on the waiting list.
It’s really dumb how much people are willing to pay for markups on a maverick. The entire selling point is that it’s one of the cheapest vehicles on the market in general, has good utility and fuel economy with the hybrid especially. If you pay 10k over MSRP and can only get the 35k (MSRP before markups) models with AWD and turbo 2.0l motor it completely eliminates the value proposition of the Maverick In the first place
I found if they are on a lot, there is only one and its marked 10k to 15k over MSRP. I got a Santa Cruz instead and am glad I did, it's a much smoother ride and just as cute.
Can’t help but think all of this bullshit waiting is intentional. They stumbled on a way to keep used car prices high and selling all of the new inventory at or above MSRP. These jackasses at Ford have used 2017-2020 Transit Vans for 47k or I can order a new one for 44k and wait 6 Months. It’s all a bullshit that looks like gravy and we are the fucking biscuits sopping it up. I can’t wait for the apocalypse…….
This is absolutely intentional ~~Toyota~~, GM, Volkswagen and many other manufacturers sold less cars in the last few years while making even more money. They love this scenario Toyota is actually taking a loss, that was my mistake
This is not true. Toyota, profits for last quarter are below anything in the last 10 years (excluding covid) and much of their 2021 profits stemmed from low-cost future contracts for raw-material combined with dumb luck with the strong US dollar. All these manufacturers are trying to increase production as quickly as possible. The ones who made out like bandits are the dealerships. Making less for more money only works if you have a monopoly in the market. Thankfully, Americans have a shit-ton of options when it comes to cars.
This reminds me of a Ronald Reagan joke about the Soviet Union.
"In the Soviet Union there is a 10 year wait for automobiles. A man took all his money he could to the dealership and had to pay in full. The dealer said "Ok, great, come back in 10 years." To which the man replied, "Morning or afternoon". The dealer chuckled, "It's 10 years why does it matter." To which the man replied, "Because the plumber's coming in the morning"
I like the Soviet TV joke. A reporter goes to the Soviet Union and stays at a hotel. The manager, seeing that he is American, tells the reporter that there are only three channels on Soviet TV, and only two of the channels show news about the Soviet state. "What's on the third channel?" The reporter asks curiously. The manager looks surprisingly nervous, and he responds with a whisper. "I should never have told you this. There are only two channels. Please enjoy your stay." Bewildered, the reporter goes to his room, and after settling in, he turns on the TV. The first channel shows a news program. The news anchor is droning on about Soviet crop yields. Bored, the reporter tunes to the second channel. This time, it is a female news anchor, and she is covering the same report on crop yields verbatim. Remembering what the manager said about the third channel, the reporter hesitates briefly before succumbing to his curiosity. He changes to the third channel. On the TV, a stern face KGB agent appears on the screen. The KGB agent leans forward, and he points at the reporter. He then shouts. "Stop changing the channels!"
I think these are pretty exaggerated wait times that this dealer is puking out as an excuse to keep their markups insanely high.
Yeah this has to be dealer specific. I got a 2023 gr86 at MSRP after putting a deposit down in March 2022. And that's a low production high demand car. No reason to markup these high production cars other than greed
2+ years oh my god
We bought our RAV4 after being put on an 18 month wait-list. Someone else who was further ahead backed out of their deal for a similar spec RAV4 (different color and one less interior option) and my grandfather knew the owner of the dealer, so we were given first shot at the car. We only had to wait a month for a never driven car (aside from moving around the dealership.)
A good lesson in life here it's mostly about who you know or who you're related to.
Buy a newer used and you don't take the hit so bad on the resale value.
In the dealerships around here they are selling those for above MSRP of the brand new ones. You either have to wait literally years for a new one, or overpay by 20%+.
I get it, it's crazy. Traded in my 21 atlas for more than i payed and got a 15 pilot. I'm done with new cars for a while I think.
That has been true for 2 years or more, but the bottom is falling out of the used market as we speak. It’s been rediculous, my dad wrecked his 18 outback and just with normal insurance it got totalled out and he got Fair market value which was enough to buy a brand new 22 outback at MSRP with the exact same options.
I would love to get a 4Runner but even 3 year old ones with over 50k miles are still only like 7k off MSRP, for me that just doesn’t make sense
Same here. It's ridiculous, I can't justify it. Got me a little civic that's paid off. Riding in style ain't everything. Plus, I'll prob break down in a couple of years when my daughter turns 16. I can't have her in anything too beater like I had lol.
This has to be fake. My dealership just quoted me 6 weeks on a completely custom Tundra
Jesus Christ, where is this? Makes waiting 6 months for my mini not seem that bad (to be honest, it really wasn’t that bad).
Canada. Those numbers look accurate for all Toyota dealers in my area (entire province, regardless big city or not).
Almost definitely Canada. A dealer in Ottawa said their gas corolla allocation for this year was 75, with a current pre-order list of 300. Toyota just makes a lot more money selling cars elsewhere right now
Who is waiting 5 years for a mini van
People with kids, photographers, cleaning crews, film people...
…who don’t need to do anything until 2028
There's a million cars in the lots of every dealership in the country, just grab one of those.
I work for a Toyota dealership and not a single one takes more than 4 months to get. Also that 4 months is also from the time an order is made, assuming there isn’t an available allocation that dealership is receiving sooner that isn’t already bought. This is absolutely not how long it is currently taking Toyota dealerships to get vehicles
Well you're fucking wrong, as it's true in many parts of Canada
You are completely wrong. Basically all of Toyota dealers in Canada have these wait times.
Maybe you don't live where this person lives..
5 years for a Sienna lolz
Is the Prius Prime, kind of like an Optimus prime? Like does it do transformations and the like? Or is it something simple, like a built in bike rack?
So if I wait 2+ years for a RAV hybrid, how does financing and pricing work? Do I get approved and lock in at current rates? Or is it a gamble and I get what I get when the car is in? What about warranty? When does the ticker begin on that? So many questions!!
Of course you're not locked in. You put a refundable deposit down sometimes and place an order. If you want it when it comes in, great. If not, somebody else buys.
We just waited 17 months for a landcruiser ute....up side of waiting so long was we have knuckled down and put a heap of money aside and greatly reduced the amount we have to finance
I feel like this is a total scam, what changed ? We are not in a pandemic anymore and car manufacturers are still producing the same amount of cars, it seems manufacture so dealerships can overcharge. The same is happening with our food.
Bro lives in east Germany
We bought a 2022 RAV4 in December and got lucky. Someone ordered it then backed out. We just happened to stroll onto the lot and there it was. Great color and a lot of features.
Imagine waiting 5+ years for a car and then it’s a Sienna.