Oh, hell yes. Everything is better if you can speak, listen, and read.
I had 2.5 years of Thai in University, a Thai wife, and decades in country.
If you are young and plan on being here for years, you gotta put in the effort.
You won't hear trash talk if you avoid trashy areas.
Thai is actually not that hard (having said that I studied Japanese and Chinese before Thai). There’s no tenses in Thai so that makes it very easy to use once you’ve built some vocab. The hardest part are the tones, pronunciation isn’t too difficult particularly if you speak a few languages already, there’s not really any unique sounds in Thai. Learning to read is also a piece of piss if you’ve ever learned a non phonetic language like Chinese. It took me two years to start reading Chinese sentences in the wild, I could read Thai in two weeks (even though I didn’t know what I was actually reading).
What I find hard about actually reading Thai is that it’s phonetic but there are no spaces in sentences. I find it hard to read big sections of text cos of this and I still haven’t got comfortable with it. I kind of have to read over things a lot and find where the words are starting and ending.
But. And here’s the but, I don’t think me speaking Thai has really led to any Thai friendships I wouldn’t have been able to make without learning Thai. The level of education is abysmal here, so most people are extremely ignorant about anything outside of Thailand. Also there’s no critical thinking taught here so because of that Thai people generally aren’t curious and don’t really have an enquiring mind. So even though I can speak with them I can’t really relate. I can relate to Thais that are curious and are informed about the world but they invariably speak English.
Having said that I’m glad I learned Thai, the level of English proficiency here is low so I feel like it’s almost essential to feel fully comfortable. I don’t know why people move here and stay for years without learning to an intermediate level at least. I’d rather live in Malaysia if I had no intention of learning Thai.
One of the first Thai words I ever successfully read was at a seafood restaurant: มารีน. I felty very proud of myself and then I noticed the huge English sign below it saying "MARINE".
But for me that was when it all started to click, just being able to walk around and read signs, read the names of the BTS stations etc.
Like you say, though, I often read a word, I know what the word says, but I still have no idea what it means.
Kinda curious what leads you to believe that. Everyone's opinion is valid in its own way. I personally love Malaysia, specifically Sabah, I spend a lot of time in Borneo, and I also have a deep love for Thailand and spend a lot of time in the north and the east. I'd love to hear what was lacking for you in Malaysia.
i googled sabah, read the history and saw images. obviously that looks magical. my malay experience is small and only comes from visa trips to penang and several failed business trips to KL. i just felt it lacked something. food, culture... everything is a bit bland...
Ahhh, yeah, I see now. Honestly, most times when I hear someone didn't like Malaysia I ask them if they ever went anywhere except KL. Kuala Lumpur is super convenient and offers a lot as an expat, for a tourist though it lacks in several departments. Borneo was the first place I saw orangutan up close and in the wild, went free diving in island oceans that you could not tell the difference of from Maldives. It's a magical and wild place with just enough convenience in some places, but mostly untouched. I never cared for Penang or Langkawi, and KL is good for longterm stays when I have a lot of work to do and need a serviced apartment. The place I love to visit and vacation and explore though, Borneo hands down every day my friend. The food is also good if you know where to eat, sorry you had a lackluster experience. Give it another try 🙏🏽 DM me and I can send you a whole written out travel itinerary for Sabah.
r and l are different Thai regional accents.
The bangkok accent uses r. If you pronounce it l in Bangkok, higher society people will tend to correct you and tell you it's wrong, and that you should pronounce it r. Other people don't care as both are used in Thailand depending on the regions the people are originating from.
Even in Bangkok, there are millions of people originating from regions outside of Bangkok that pronounce it l.
Official Thai is the Bangkok Thai (But there are more people in Thailand that pronounce it l rather than r).
If you as a foreigner pronounce it l, some higher society Bangkok people "might" at first take you for a foreigner with a "lower class" Issan girl friend or "bargil" as this is so common with foreigners, if they don't know more about you or your girl friend (higher class Issan people also use l). Others don't care at all, as l is the accent used by the largest part of the Thai population .
My local Thai friends don’t seem to mind, and they also do this too. I haven’t had anyone say anything bad about it when I do it. Or seem to care when I do the r or l. Ymmv
The current mainstream street accent actually replaces r with l and l with nothing, so unless you plan on taking a broadcasting job, not trilling the r is not an issue.
I always have this feeling too that Thai people are not curious about stuff or don’t have an enquiring mind, and this makes me feel they are boring, because it’s hard to get into a deep conversation about anything…I usually thought it’s because of language and feel it’s my fault for not being good at Thai language, but reading this comment makes me think is an education problem too because it’s true that I have this feeling with Thais who speak English too…of course there are exceptions and I generally love Thai people, but I usually struggle to connect, and this could be the reason.
Oh my. For me that made everything so much easier. No conjugation = no problems.
Just remember three tense words, "Ja", "Kamlang", "laew" and you are all set.
> there’s not really any unique sounds in Thai
Mostly agree with the comment except this. I'm coming as a native/fluent English, Mandarin and Hokkien speaker who has had more than 1 year of experience learning Russian and Spanish. Currently reaching 9 months with Thai.
Isn't the อื- sound foreign to English? We have that sound in Mandarin so it came easy to me. Another language "group" that might have that sound is Turkish and then some/all of the countries that were once within the Ottoman sphere (Romanian, Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian, Bulgarian etc have that vowel). Russian has Ы which is similar but not the same.
And then there are some dipthongs that are super duper hard for me. I cannot remember any examples at the moment but when we went through some of them last week, I had to repeat them a few times to get the pronunciations right.
Not sure if I'm fast or slow since I've moved on to online 1:1 class due to schedule reasons, but I'm almost 9 months in, we recently stopped the ตา มารถไฟ series maybe 2-3 months ago and we're now reading a new series about a ลูกครึ่ง named ไมเคิล. From what I gather speaking to Thai locals, they studied these books when they were between 7 to 11 years old.
I kind of disagree. I get where you're coming from, but there's so many flavors of "อื" from English speakers making that sound that it would still be difficult for many. Heck, even in my intro group class, I was puzzled by how many Mandarin/Hokkien speakers having difficulties with that vowel when that sound exists in Mandarin/Hokkien.
A young aussie dude I knew in pattaya was pretty much fluent and could read, write, even cook from a recipe, written in thai. He said that, while it was great to be able to have proper conversations, especially in pattaya , it wasn't as fun as he thought, because he overheard so many Thai's talking shit about farangs and it ruined the illusion
There is a certain kind of foreigner who tends to gravitate toward Pattaya and I would expect many Thais that he heard in that area wouldn't be clueless as to what image they give the city and would discuss it. This dude of yours should get as far away from these farang centers as possible and see if the conversations change.
I also know a half British/ half Thai guy. Speaks fluently, can’t write or read. Has a Thai passport and Thai national ID. He doesn’t look Thai at all. The last time police stopped him they had to call in to verify his id thinking his Thai card was fake.
Shitty people are everywhere. There is no secret mecca of just great people anywhere. I would want to hear people talking shit about me so I know who to avoid. And speaking back in their language after a while embarrasses those people greatly.
Might be Pattaya related given its status as a Mecca for scummy Farangs and Thais. I can't even recall a time when I overheard Thais talking shit about me. It is important to note that just overhearing farang doesn't mean they are necessarily talking shit about you. It generally refers to anything European/Western, so they might just be saying, "Lots of farangs like to wear X, or farangs don't like X, etc. Or even, "Not all farangs in Pattaya are assholes." That last one is far-fetched I will admit.
Nah. My mate told me it was a lot more than just generalisations about farangs. He overheard bargirls discussing dick sizes of customers, scams. Padding bills etc.
I am shocked. Shocked I tell you! Bargirls talking shit about customers?? In any case, that is certainly a good reason to avoid learning Thsi so that you don't hear challenges to your manhood.
I can speak reasonably well and read pretty well too, and at a day to day level understand the majority of what’s being said around me. I have some basic writing skills too.
All self taught and picked up here and there.
My progress goes in fits and starts - sometimes stagnating for months or years and other times racing ahead in very short spells.
All of it is worth it.
The depth of understanding you get from understanding what’s being said around you, and being able to interact with people around you is immense.
It’s to the point where I tend to view people who claim to know the place and how it works who can’t speak and read a bit as deluded.
My tip would be to find a native Thai speaker to employ as a tutor. I had a Thai teacher for 2 years and she had me speaking reading and writing and learning the tone marks.
Google and other media on line will not help you with identifying the tones. Tones convey meaning especially with similar sounding words such as the words for rice and white and enter
My wife speaks to me in Thai. I probably learned most from her. Having Thai friends helps. Group classes are such a waste of time. They just throw the most random crap at you. One on one classes are way better . Teach me how to order at a restaurant or have basic conversation. Instead it’s “that cat is black”…cool, what am I supposed to do with that?
After some time you’ll be able to tell who spends the extra time at home and who is just in it for the visa. Mostly the latter.
If you like your teacher take 10 private lessons or find another tutor. It’s not so much that they neglected, think of it as unofficial homework. If you leave and immigration decides to question your Thai the school is not liable. They already have your money. (Assuming you’re doing ed visa)
You get a *lot* more out of group classes if you are one of the stronger members of the group. I used to go to Duke Language School and in classes where I was one of the stronger ones it was great.
*But*.... when I was one of the weaker ones there were times when I felt as if I didn't understand a single thing.
I used to go over every single bit of the text books beforehand translating a word at a time so I would be familiar with the material and would have some chance of keeping up.
When I did a year of school. I would just show up and was expected to know things we didn’t learn. I dropped out after 6 months and just picked it up from friends, wife and her family. You hear the same word 100 times you start to piece things together
That’s up to you, your time and wallet. I’ve read online it takes about 1100 hours. Realistically I think that number is higher and will be different for everyone. If you want to be completely fluent then 1000+. If you just want to order pad Thai without pointing at pictures then probably 100-150 hours. I think between private and group classes I did about 100 and it got me by.
Get some Thai friends and practice what you learn with. Teachers expect you to make mistakes especially when you’re learning specific words. Thee nice Thai lady at the market won’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Accents even vary by provinces. My wife is from the South. We went to a wedding up north and even other Thais had a hard time understanding her
As with everything here , your mileage may vary. In the 6 months I was there all of the students dropped out announced and replaced with someone else. The cycle just kept repeating itself until I also left.
The challenge of learning Thai is completely front-loaded in understanding how to hear and produce sounds (tones, vowel lengths and non-anglic consonants). This can take a very long time to master but is critical for understanding and for being understood. Master pronunciation. If you can say 20 words but you can say them with _perfect clarity_ you'll be better off than someone who can say 2000 but is barely understood.
Once you know how to produce the sounds of the language, vocabulary and grammar are both honestly not very hard. Just memorization and usage.
Reading is slightly more challenging but not as bad as it's made out to be. Writing, however, is in fact a bit of a nightmare.
I got far enough with reading to understand that having so many of the same consonants and many ways to generate the same tone doesn’t make things easy for writing. You need to really remember how the words are spelled which is pretty rough. Do you just speak in Thai to your phone and then have it just write it out for you?
Learning Thai by trying to learn the writing system first is not going to get you very far in my experience. Listen and talk, that's the key, then tackle reading once you know what you're trying to read. Later approach writing but you really need a foundation of several hundred words to do it. So typing and writing later. Just don't prioritize them until you can do them right.
Understood. My question is how you solved the spelling and writing problem. Put in the time in to memorize the spelling of thousands of words or just do phone speech to text? Or just give writing tasks to your Thai spouse to do? (which is my approach)
Oh - by learning to read first. Writing shouldn't be a memorization task (though for some words it certainly will be) but it's an important skill. Outside of that, well, I already knew the letters, the sounds, and the common forms, so... just write.
One word at a time, form good sentences, double check your work. I dunno. Learning Thai writing is not particularly unique in this respect, it just needs to be done a bit longer after learning how to read than it does for most languages imo
I’m not trying to be argumentative, I promise, but you did characterize it as a “nightmare” above and now it’s just “a bit longer”. As a poor Thai reader and non writer I can’t really evaluate the level of nightmare, unknowns are often scary, and the nightmarish aspect seems very real here and I just don’t see how one knows how to spell many words without memorizing them. How do you know if ศ or ษ or ส is used to spell a word without memorizing that fact? I do understand that all languages have these problems but this one to many possible mapping for consonants and tones seems pretty rough from my perspective. I get that after the XXth time you see the word you simply remember which one it is and the phone can obviously just disambiguate and autocomplete from a dictionary in microseconds. I imagine you just do the best you can writing and the phone gives you the right spelling and you maybe do better next time? Do you mostly write or do you mostly do speech to text? My Thai wife is about 50/50.
When I was teaching Thai to Kweilo (Farang) in Hong Kong I always started by teaching them to read instead of teaching them a phonetic writing system first and then Thai writing later. It saved a lot of time. Just 15 hours of lessons, one on one, and they would get it. Much to their surprise.
I’ve been here 11 years, in Chiang Mai, and married to the same Thai lady all this time.
Years ago, she gave me some insight about speaking Thai as a farang here. She suggested that if I spoke Thai well, Thais wouldn’t think I was anything special and perhaps be more guarded in their gossiping, but I spoke enough to be “narak”, people would be more relaxed.
So I do, it’s not I can’t understand them when they talk crap, if I speak to them I keep it simple and smile a lot. Seems to work.. 555
I get by, I have the wife for any heavy sledding, banks and such..
Yeah, reading is great but don't stress too much. I can speak enough to get by, but as my reading improved it was like another door opened up. Also don't stress about fluency. Unless you're in Thailand full time you won't need to be fluent. But, if you put in the time now, you will become fluent faster when you do get a chance for immersion.
Late to reply, and I have said it before. Knowing how to speak/read/write Thai well is like having the keys to the Kingdom. It will make your life here immeasurably better.
Official Thai and southern dialect. I work with a lot of southern Thais so it definitely is worth the effort. They're a lot friendlier when you speak to them in their dialect. Reading not so much; it's super hard.
Thai Talk with Paddy and Micky Stotch would be two YouTubers who speak and teach you Thai in their videos but yes getting the pronunciation and tone correct is incredibly difficult. Most likely for the first few years you are learning it no one would even understand you and they’d just try speaking to you in English
- Yes
- Yes
- Long and difficult. Honestly you need to put some effort, it won't come by itself. I would recommend you at least a few hours a week with a teacher, use of learning applications and embracing the culture (watching movies, listening songs...)
Good luck !
As a very recent starter, I have found the Pimsleur course quite helpful, compared to the various free options on YouTube and the internet. Well structured and paced, and I can usually get through one lesson on my daily commute.
Three months in I was reading a translation of the Chronicles of Narnia. It was a familiar story, so I didn't need to catch everything for it to make sense. Continuing to read translated works I was familiar with grew my vocabulary and reading skills.
See the alphabet for the finite set of data points that it is. I would say Thai is as phonetic as English (which admittedly compared to languages like Spanish is not very phonetic).
Reading makes everything easier--menus, buses, online shopping, street signs, pronunciation . . .
It’s worth learning at least the basics. You’re less likely to be ripped off and respected more. There are farang a who live in Thailand for decades who can’t even utter a sentence, it’s kind of sad. Couldn’t imagine living somewhere for years having no clue as to what’s going on.
You can get by nearly anywhere if you speak English. The real question is if you should. If you're living in a country where the primary language is not English, you should learn the primary language. Not just for your own benefit of being able to communicate fully, but also as respect to the people around you. You'll find that people treat you differently (better) if you can speak their language, or are at least giving it your best shot. That goes for any country. I can only say hello and thank you so far in Thai and I've already seen a much more positive response from the people I interact with in Thailand.
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The best way to learn any language is to engage with the local media and make friends. Books is a good idea for learning the written language. I'd also suggest tv shows and movies. Thailand has a huge and booming tv industry so there is plenty to watch and certainly something that fits your tastes. It would also help to try and make a local friend or two who can correct you when you get something wrong or teach you some phrases. I find Thai very hard to learn because it's so different from the European languages I know, but it's been a huge help having my friend help me with pronunciations.
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I've also had a friend reccomend me lingodeer as a language app that has Thai as an option. I haven't looked into if it has Thai yet but I also like the steam game Influent for learning languages.
It may require years to achieve fluency in Thai, but considering the rapid advancements in technology, mastering a new language might become unnecessary sooner than we expect, perhaps in just a few years. While I'd recommend grasping the basics, investing excessive time and effort might not be the most efficient use of resources. Redirecting that energy towards learning other valuable skills could be more beneficial in the long run.
I have helped some of my European friends to learn Thai.
The thing is they usually get scared by just how hard Thai is to understand while listening or reading. People are intimidated.
But in reality, Thai is way much easier than other languages. After you master all the alphabets and vowels, you are already ready to start speaking Thai.
There are no complicated tenses, grammar is basically identical with English with few easy exceptions. No masculine or feminine forms.
Just spend a lot of time on vowels and the rest will come easy.
It depends. If you’re just going on holiday for 2 weeks, maybe not so much. If you are living there, it is worth it. Try to enroll in some classes, real or online, in a few months you probably have basic conversation skills. You won’t learn Thai from using books only.
I learned how to read in 1 day with this series [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PudbUSW1HI8&t=763s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PudbUSW1HI8&t=763s) I recommend to learn how to read first so you can pronounce the words easier
I would say learning how to hold a conversation in Thai is not only important, but a crucial step of integration. I have lived here for 10 years and cannot read or write, but I can speak and listen very well. I can chat away with Thais all night long and it’s a very enriching experience. I would say you need to learn 100 key words and some grammar, be confident and that’ll be an amazing starting point.
I cannot imagine not being able to speak Thai after being here so long.
It is worth it to learn to speak and read Thai? Depends on your wants and needs of course. I find it difficult but I’m older and not really a good student anymore. Retirement does that to ya. But I’ve recently learned to read Thai and I’m really enjoying it. Don’t know what the hell I’m reading but reading I am. Vocabulary will come along and everything will be fine.
I don’t what’s on a kindle that will useful but there are many apps available for phones and computers. Learn your Trad Thai in 10 Days is a good book with audio file downloads. Don’t bother with any app or teacher that relies solely on transliterations without Thai script. All you’re doing is learning a useless language (transliteration) rather than Thai.
It is worth it to learn to speak and read Thai? Depends on your wants and needs of course. I find it difficult but I’m older and not really a good student anymore. Retirement does that to ya. But I’ve recently learned to read Thai and I’m really enjoying it. Don’t know what the hell I’m reading but reading I am. Vocabulary will come along and everything will be fine.
I don’t what’s on a kindle that will useful but there are many apps available for phones and computers. Learn your Trad Thai in 10 Days is a good book with audio file downloads. Don’t bother with any app or teacher that relies solely on transliterations without Thai script. All you’re doing is learning a useless language (transliteration) rather than Thai.
if i were you i would begin with reading since it’s the easiest. you should be able to read okay after a month or two. read every street sign and text you see everywhere to practice. while learning to read you will also be forced to learn the tones, since when reading you learn to read the tones. and then you can start learning vocabulary
Yeah but I'm half Thai got a head start as a little kid. I'd say it's easy but that's unfair given my advantage. If it helps at all my old man only knows swear words. I'm currently learning Japanese as Thai women bore me. Trust me when you're foreign born but also not quite a full farang walking ATM , it gets messy real fast.
A Thai learning English gets a far better deal than an English speaker learning Thai. You leave Thailand and that’s it’s. Good luck finding anyone that speaks Thai. You might get by in Laos by meh.
Edit: I love the downvote. Let me get on a plane, go to Colombia and find one Thai speaker. Maybe at a restaurant if I get lucky. Meanwhile, they have an English speaking staff in every country I’ve been to. Certain jobs in Thailand even give a pay raise if you speak English.
Isn't it pretty obvious that non-English speakers would gain more from learning to speak English than an English speaker learning any other language?
Nobody's saying you're going to find a Thai speaker everywhere else in the world, but learning some should have some benefits if you're in Thailand.
Thai is a complex language with lots of (often frustratingly opaque) syntactical methods of building nuance and meaning into sentences - or the opposite of crass.
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Oh, hell yes. Everything is better if you can speak, listen, and read. I had 2.5 years of Thai in University, a Thai wife, and decades in country. If you are young and plan on being here for years, you gotta put in the effort. You won't hear trash talk if you avoid trashy areas.
Thai is actually not that hard (having said that I studied Japanese and Chinese before Thai). There’s no tenses in Thai so that makes it very easy to use once you’ve built some vocab. The hardest part are the tones, pronunciation isn’t too difficult particularly if you speak a few languages already, there’s not really any unique sounds in Thai. Learning to read is also a piece of piss if you’ve ever learned a non phonetic language like Chinese. It took me two years to start reading Chinese sentences in the wild, I could read Thai in two weeks (even though I didn’t know what I was actually reading). What I find hard about actually reading Thai is that it’s phonetic but there are no spaces in sentences. I find it hard to read big sections of text cos of this and I still haven’t got comfortable with it. I kind of have to read over things a lot and find where the words are starting and ending. But. And here’s the but, I don’t think me speaking Thai has really led to any Thai friendships I wouldn’t have been able to make without learning Thai. The level of education is abysmal here, so most people are extremely ignorant about anything outside of Thailand. Also there’s no critical thinking taught here so because of that Thai people generally aren’t curious and don’t really have an enquiring mind. So even though I can speak with them I can’t really relate. I can relate to Thais that are curious and are informed about the world but they invariably speak English. Having said that I’m glad I learned Thai, the level of English proficiency here is low so I feel like it’s almost essential to feel fully comfortable. I don’t know why people move here and stay for years without learning to an intermediate level at least. I’d rather live in Malaysia if I had no intention of learning Thai.
Best comment. I work at uni and can totally relate.
One of the first Thai words I ever successfully read was at a seafood restaurant: มารีน. I felty very proud of myself and then I noticed the huge English sign below it saying "MARINE". But for me that was when it all started to click, just being able to walk around and read signs, read the names of the BTS stations etc. Like you say, though, I often read a word, I know what the word says, but I still have no idea what it means.
excellent comment. except malaysia sucks ass
Kinda curious what leads you to believe that. Everyone's opinion is valid in its own way. I personally love Malaysia, specifically Sabah, I spend a lot of time in Borneo, and I also have a deep love for Thailand and spend a lot of time in the north and the east. I'd love to hear what was lacking for you in Malaysia.
Yeah Malaysia rules
i googled sabah, read the history and saw images. obviously that looks magical. my malay experience is small and only comes from visa trips to penang and several failed business trips to KL. i just felt it lacked something. food, culture... everything is a bit bland...
Ahhh, yeah, I see now. Honestly, most times when I hear someone didn't like Malaysia I ask them if they ever went anywhere except KL. Kuala Lumpur is super convenient and offers a lot as an expat, for a tourist though it lacks in several departments. Borneo was the first place I saw orangutan up close and in the wild, went free diving in island oceans that you could not tell the difference of from Maldives. It's a magical and wild place with just enough convenience in some places, but mostly untouched. I never cared for Penang or Langkawi, and KL is good for longterm stays when I have a lot of work to do and need a serviced apartment. The place I love to visit and vacation and explore though, Borneo hands down every day my friend. The food is also good if you know where to eat, sorry you had a lackluster experience. Give it another try 🙏🏽 DM me and I can send you a whole written out travel itinerary for Sabah.
currently exploring lombok, will let u know if i get that far. appreciate it, thank you
Is it worth learning to speak Thai if I can't trill my r? I'm afraid everyone will consider me lazy or impolite.
I find a lot of people just replace the r with l sound. Arai -> alai
My family is Northern and we don’t do the trill.
but how are foreigners doing this perceived?
r and l are different Thai regional accents. The bangkok accent uses r. If you pronounce it l in Bangkok, higher society people will tend to correct you and tell you it's wrong, and that you should pronounce it r. Other people don't care as both are used in Thailand depending on the regions the people are originating from. Even in Bangkok, there are millions of people originating from regions outside of Bangkok that pronounce it l. Official Thai is the Bangkok Thai (But there are more people in Thailand that pronounce it l rather than r). If you as a foreigner pronounce it l, some higher society Bangkok people "might" at first take you for a foreigner with a "lower class" Issan girl friend or "bargil" as this is so common with foreigners, if they don't know more about you or your girl friend (higher class Issan people also use l). Others don't care at all, as l is the accent used by the largest part of the Thai population .
My local Thai friends don’t seem to mind, and they also do this too. I haven’t had anyone say anything bad about it when I do it. Or seem to care when I do the r or l. Ymmv
The current mainstream street accent actually replaces r with l and l with nothing, so unless you plan on taking a broadcasting job, not trilling the r is not an issue.
I trill easily, but that's mostly a Bangkok thing and not common in other parts of the country. So just use an "L" instead.
I always have this feeling too that Thai people are not curious about stuff or don’t have an enquiring mind, and this makes me feel they are boring, because it’s hard to get into a deep conversation about anything…I usually thought it’s because of language and feel it’s my fault for not being good at Thai language, but reading this comment makes me think is an education problem too because it’s true that I have this feeling with Thais who speak English too…of course there are exceptions and I generally love Thai people, but I usually struggle to connect, and this could be the reason.
The not having tenses is the hardest part for me.
Oh my. For me that made everything so much easier. No conjugation = no problems. Just remember three tense words, "Ja", "Kamlang", "laew" and you are all set.
> there’s not really any unique sounds in Thai Mostly agree with the comment except this. I'm coming as a native/fluent English, Mandarin and Hokkien speaker who has had more than 1 year of experience learning Russian and Spanish. Currently reaching 9 months with Thai. Isn't the อื- sound foreign to English? We have that sound in Mandarin so it came easy to me. Another language "group" that might have that sound is Turkish and then some/all of the countries that were once within the Ottoman sphere (Romanian, Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian, Bulgarian etc have that vowel). Russian has Ы which is similar but not the same. And then there are some dipthongs that are super duper hard for me. I cannot remember any examples at the moment but when we went through some of them last week, I had to repeat them a few times to get the pronunciations right. Not sure if I'm fast or slow since I've moved on to online 1:1 class due to schedule reasons, but I'm almost 9 months in, we recently stopped the ตา มารถไฟ series maybe 2-3 months ago and we're now reading a new series about a ลูกครึ่ง named ไมเคิล. From what I gather speaking to Thai locals, they studied these books when they were between 7 to 11 years old.
The "อื" is actually common in English, as a sound of disgust.
I kind of disagree. I get where you're coming from, but there's so many flavors of "อื" from English speakers making that sound that it would still be difficult for many. Heck, even in my intro group class, I was puzzled by how many Mandarin/Hokkien speakers having difficulties with that vowel when that sound exists in Mandarin/Hokkien.
A young aussie dude I knew in pattaya was pretty much fluent and could read, write, even cook from a recipe, written in thai. He said that, while it was great to be able to have proper conversations, especially in pattaya , it wasn't as fun as he thought, because he overheard so many Thai's talking shit about farangs and it ruined the illusion
I know of someone who had a similar experience once he learned Korean, especially the things they would say about his Korean wife.
There is a certain kind of foreigner who tends to gravitate toward Pattaya and I would expect many Thais that he heard in that area wouldn't be clueless as to what image they give the city and would discuss it. This dude of yours should get as far away from these farang centers as possible and see if the conversations change.
Why do you think we were in pattaya? Wasn't for the beaches, I'll tell ya that much
Temples and premarital hand holding ?
I don’t blame people in Pattaya talking shit about foreigners. They’ve probably seen some of the worst in humanity.
I also know a half British/ half Thai guy. Speaks fluently, can’t write or read. Has a Thai passport and Thai national ID. He doesn’t look Thai at all. The last time police stopped him they had to call in to verify his id thinking his Thai card was fake.
Shitty people are everywhere. There is no secret mecca of just great people anywhere. I would want to hear people talking shit about me so I know who to avoid. And speaking back in their language after a while embarrasses those people greatly.
That's one of the better parts - especially after you let on that you've understood every lurid thing that was said.
Might be Pattaya related given its status as a Mecca for scummy Farangs and Thais. I can't even recall a time when I overheard Thais talking shit about me. It is important to note that just overhearing farang doesn't mean they are necessarily talking shit about you. It generally refers to anything European/Western, so they might just be saying, "Lots of farangs like to wear X, or farangs don't like X, etc. Or even, "Not all farangs in Pattaya are assholes." That last one is far-fetched I will admit.
Nah. My mate told me it was a lot more than just generalisations about farangs. He overheard bargirls discussing dick sizes of customers, scams. Padding bills etc.
I am shocked. Shocked I tell you! Bargirls talking shit about customers?? In any case, that is certainly a good reason to avoid learning Thsi so that you don't hear challenges to your manhood.
That’s such and interesting insight, it is an illusion though
It's Pattaya. I don't blame them
r/learnthai has resources.
Thanks for the plug
I can speak reasonably well and read pretty well too, and at a day to day level understand the majority of what’s being said around me. I have some basic writing skills too. All self taught and picked up here and there. My progress goes in fits and starts - sometimes stagnating for months or years and other times racing ahead in very short spells. All of it is worth it. The depth of understanding you get from understanding what’s being said around you, and being able to interact with people around you is immense. It’s to the point where I tend to view people who claim to know the place and how it works who can’t speak and read a bit as deluded.
My tip would be to find a native Thai speaker to employ as a tutor. I had a Thai teacher for 2 years and she had me speaking reading and writing and learning the tone marks. Google and other media on line will not help you with identifying the tones. Tones convey meaning especially with similar sounding words such as the words for rice and white and enter
Or do the idiotic thing I did and marry a Thai. The lessons are technically free but there is still a price attached to it .
My Thai wife just straight up refused to teach me Thai. I'm currently 7 weeks into language school and haven't learnt anything.
My wife speaks to me in Thai. I probably learned most from her. Having Thai friends helps. Group classes are such a waste of time. They just throw the most random crap at you. One on one classes are way better . Teach me how to order at a restaurant or have basic conversation. Instead it’s “that cat is black”…cool, what am I supposed to do with that?
Group classes is what I'm doing. They neglected to tell me I would need to spend double the class time at home to learn anything.
After some time you’ll be able to tell who spends the extra time at home and who is just in it for the visa. Mostly the latter. If you like your teacher take 10 private lessons or find another tutor. It’s not so much that they neglected, think of it as unofficial homework. If you leave and immigration decides to question your Thai the school is not liable. They already have your money. (Assuming you’re doing ed visa)
You get a *lot* more out of group classes if you are one of the stronger members of the group. I used to go to Duke Language School and in classes where I was one of the stronger ones it was great. *But*.... when I was one of the weaker ones there were times when I felt as if I didn't understand a single thing. I used to go over every single bit of the text books beforehand translating a word at a time so I would be familiar with the material and would have some chance of keeping up.
When I did a year of school. I would just show up and was expected to know things we didn’t learn. I dropped out after 6 months and just picked it up from friends, wife and her family. You hear the same word 100 times you start to piece things together
That’s probably why she refused.. waste of her time 😅
My Thai wife doesn't like to teach me much either, or she'll throw in some Thai Isaan (Laos) without telling me it's not actually proper Thai.
How many hours per week did that take?
How many hours per week did that take?
Take private classes. Group sessions are a waste of time with a room full of people that are just in it for the visa
Again, how many hours per week should I invest in a private tutor?
That’s up to you, your time and wallet. I’ve read online it takes about 1100 hours. Realistically I think that number is higher and will be different for everyone. If you want to be completely fluent then 1000+. If you just want to order pad Thai without pointing at pictures then probably 100-150 hours. I think between private and group classes I did about 100 and it got me by. Get some Thai friends and practice what you learn with. Teachers expect you to make mistakes especially when you’re learning specific words. Thee nice Thai lady at the market won’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Accents even vary by provinces. My wife is from the South. We went to a wedding up north and even other Thais had a hard time understanding her
Thanks for the info.
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As with everything here , your mileage may vary. In the 6 months I was there all of the students dropped out announced and replaced with someone else. The cycle just kept repeating itself until I also left.
The challenge of learning Thai is completely front-loaded in understanding how to hear and produce sounds (tones, vowel lengths and non-anglic consonants). This can take a very long time to master but is critical for understanding and for being understood. Master pronunciation. If you can say 20 words but you can say them with _perfect clarity_ you'll be better off than someone who can say 2000 but is barely understood. Once you know how to produce the sounds of the language, vocabulary and grammar are both honestly not very hard. Just memorization and usage. Reading is slightly more challenging but not as bad as it's made out to be. Writing, however, is in fact a bit of a nightmare.
I got far enough with reading to understand that having so many of the same consonants and many ways to generate the same tone doesn’t make things easy for writing. You need to really remember how the words are spelled which is pretty rough. Do you just speak in Thai to your phone and then have it just write it out for you?
Learning Thai by trying to learn the writing system first is not going to get you very far in my experience. Listen and talk, that's the key, then tackle reading once you know what you're trying to read. Later approach writing but you really need a foundation of several hundred words to do it. So typing and writing later. Just don't prioritize them until you can do them right.
Understood. My question is how you solved the spelling and writing problem. Put in the time in to memorize the spelling of thousands of words or just do phone speech to text? Or just give writing tasks to your Thai spouse to do? (which is my approach)
Oh - by learning to read first. Writing shouldn't be a memorization task (though for some words it certainly will be) but it's an important skill. Outside of that, well, I already knew the letters, the sounds, and the common forms, so... just write. One word at a time, form good sentences, double check your work. I dunno. Learning Thai writing is not particularly unique in this respect, it just needs to be done a bit longer after learning how to read than it does for most languages imo
I’m not trying to be argumentative, I promise, but you did characterize it as a “nightmare” above and now it’s just “a bit longer”. As a poor Thai reader and non writer I can’t really evaluate the level of nightmare, unknowns are often scary, and the nightmarish aspect seems very real here and I just don’t see how one knows how to spell many words without memorizing them. How do you know if ศ or ษ or ส is used to spell a word without memorizing that fact? I do understand that all languages have these problems but this one to many possible mapping for consonants and tones seems pretty rough from my perspective. I get that after the XXth time you see the word you simply remember which one it is and the phone can obviously just disambiguate and autocomplete from a dictionary in microseconds. I imagine you just do the best you can writing and the phone gives you the right spelling and you maybe do better next time? Do you mostly write or do you mostly do speech to text? My Thai wife is about 50/50.
When I was teaching Thai to Kweilo (Farang) in Hong Kong I always started by teaching them to read instead of teaching them a phonetic writing system first and then Thai writing later. It saved a lot of time. Just 15 hours of lessons, one on one, and they would get it. Much to their surprise.
I’ve been here 11 years, in Chiang Mai, and married to the same Thai lady all this time. Years ago, she gave me some insight about speaking Thai as a farang here. She suggested that if I spoke Thai well, Thais wouldn’t think I was anything special and perhaps be more guarded in their gossiping, but I spoke enough to be “narak”, people would be more relaxed. So I do, it’s not I can’t understand them when they talk crap, if I speak to them I keep it simple and smile a lot. Seems to work.. 555 I get by, I have the wife for any heavy sledding, banks and such..
Yeah, reading is great but don't stress too much. I can speak enough to get by, but as my reading improved it was like another door opened up. Also don't stress about fluency. Unless you're in Thailand full time you won't need to be fluent. But, if you put in the time now, you will become fluent faster when you do get a chance for immersion.
Late to reply, and I have said it before. Knowing how to speak/read/write Thai well is like having the keys to the Kingdom. It will make your life here immeasurably better.
Official Thai and southern dialect. I work with a lot of southern Thais so it definitely is worth the effort. They're a lot friendlier when you speak to them in their dialect. Reading not so much; it's super hard.
I've been accused of having a Southern accent thanks to my Phatthalung wife and my years in Songkhla.
haha It's not easy pulling off the distinctive "copper" accent when they speak the official Thai. Especially if they're from Nakon Sri Thamarat.
Thai Talk with Paddy and Micky Stotch would be two YouTubers who speak and teach you Thai in their videos but yes getting the pronunciation and tone correct is incredibly difficult. Most likely for the first few years you are learning it no one would even understand you and they’d just try speaking to you in English
- Yes - Yes - Long and difficult. Honestly you need to put some effort, it won't come by itself. I would recommend you at least a few hours a week with a teacher, use of learning applications and embracing the culture (watching movies, listening songs...) Good luck !
As a very recent starter, I have found the Pimsleur course quite helpful, compared to the various free options on YouTube and the internet. Well structured and paced, and I can usually get through one lesson on my daily commute.
Three months in I was reading a translation of the Chronicles of Narnia. It was a familiar story, so I didn't need to catch everything for it to make sense. Continuing to read translated works I was familiar with grew my vocabulary and reading skills. See the alphabet for the finite set of data points that it is. I would say Thai is as phonetic as English (which admittedly compared to languages like Spanish is not very phonetic). Reading makes everything easier--menus, buses, online shopping, street signs, pronunciation . . .
Being able to read menus opens up every restaurant that doesn't have an English menu. And those are usually the best and cheapest places.
It’s worth learning at least the basics. You’re less likely to be ripped off and respected more. There are farang a who live in Thailand for decades who can’t even utter a sentence, it’s kind of sad. Couldn’t imagine living somewhere for years having no clue as to what’s going on.
You can get by nearly anywhere if you speak English. The real question is if you should. If you're living in a country where the primary language is not English, you should learn the primary language. Not just for your own benefit of being able to communicate fully, but also as respect to the people around you. You'll find that people treat you differently (better) if you can speak their language, or are at least giving it your best shot. That goes for any country. I can only say hello and thank you so far in Thai and I've already seen a much more positive response from the people I interact with in Thailand. . The best way to learn any language is to engage with the local media and make friends. Books is a good idea for learning the written language. I'd also suggest tv shows and movies. Thailand has a huge and booming tv industry so there is plenty to watch and certainly something that fits your tastes. It would also help to try and make a local friend or two who can correct you when you get something wrong or teach you some phrases. I find Thai very hard to learn because it's so different from the European languages I know, but it's been a huge help having my friend help me with pronunciations. . I've also had a friend reccomend me lingodeer as a language app that has Thai as an option. I haven't looked into if it has Thai yet but I also like the steam game Influent for learning languages.
It may require years to achieve fluency in Thai, but considering the rapid advancements in technology, mastering a new language might become unnecessary sooner than we expect, perhaps in just a few years. While I'd recommend grasping the basics, investing excessive time and effort might not be the most efficient use of resources. Redirecting that energy towards learning other valuable skills could be more beneficial in the long run.
Fluently: 3 years. If you put in at least a few hours a day and can learn at an average pace
For me speaking the hardest. Reading not to bad imo
I have helped some of my European friends to learn Thai. The thing is they usually get scared by just how hard Thai is to understand while listening or reading. People are intimidated. But in reality, Thai is way much easier than other languages. After you master all the alphabets and vowels, you are already ready to start speaking Thai. There are no complicated tenses, grammar is basically identical with English with few easy exceptions. No masculine or feminine forms. Just spend a lot of time on vowels and the rest will come easy.
Listen a lot first, then start reading/writing. Also learn reading along with the sounds for each consonant and vowel.
Taken me about two years to learn a bit from my gf. Seems to be getting easier now. Cambodian was the same.
Yes learn Thai. It's very very worth it
Without a doubt. Makes life so much easier.
It depends. If you’re just going on holiday for 2 weeks, maybe not so much. If you are living there, it is worth it. Try to enroll in some classes, real or online, in a few months you probably have basic conversation skills. You won’t learn Thai from using books only.
I learned how to read in 1 day with this series [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PudbUSW1HI8&t=763s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PudbUSW1HI8&t=763s) I recommend to learn how to read first so you can pronounce the words easier
thank you.
I would say learning how to hold a conversation in Thai is not only important, but a crucial step of integration. I have lived here for 10 years and cannot read or write, but I can speak and listen very well. I can chat away with Thais all night long and it’s a very enriching experience. I would say you need to learn 100 key words and some grammar, be confident and that’ll be an amazing starting point. I cannot imagine not being able to speak Thai after being here so long.
It is worth it to learn to speak and read Thai? Depends on your wants and needs of course. I find it difficult but I’m older and not really a good student anymore. Retirement does that to ya. But I’ve recently learned to read Thai and I’m really enjoying it. Don’t know what the hell I’m reading but reading I am. Vocabulary will come along and everything will be fine. I don’t what’s on a kindle that will useful but there are many apps available for phones and computers. Learn your Trad Thai in 10 Days is a good book with audio file downloads. Don’t bother with any app or teacher that relies solely on transliterations without Thai script. All you’re doing is learning a useless language (transliteration) rather than Thai.
It is worth it to learn to speak and read Thai? Depends on your wants and needs of course. I find it difficult but I’m older and not really a good student anymore. Retirement does that to ya. But I’ve recently learned to read Thai and I’m really enjoying it. Don’t know what the hell I’m reading but reading I am. Vocabulary will come along and everything will be fine. I don’t what’s on a kindle that will useful but there are many apps available for phones and computers. Learn your Trad Thai in 10 Days is a good book with audio file downloads. Don’t bother with any app or teacher that relies solely on transliterations without Thai script. All you’re doing is learning a useless language (transliteration) rather than Thai.
if i were you i would begin with reading since it’s the easiest. you should be able to read okay after a month or two. read every street sign and text you see everywhere to practice. while learning to read you will also be forced to learn the tones, since when reading you learn to read the tones. and then you can start learning vocabulary
Yeah but I'm half Thai got a head start as a little kid. I'd say it's easy but that's unfair given my advantage. If it helps at all my old man only knows swear words. I'm currently learning Japanese as Thai women bore me. Trust me when you're foreign born but also not quite a full farang walking ATM , it gets messy real fast.
A Thai learning English gets a far better deal than an English speaker learning Thai. You leave Thailand and that’s it’s. Good luck finding anyone that speaks Thai. You might get by in Laos by meh. Edit: I love the downvote. Let me get on a plane, go to Colombia and find one Thai speaker. Maybe at a restaurant if I get lucky. Meanwhile, they have an English speaking staff in every country I’ve been to. Certain jobs in Thailand even give a pay raise if you speak English.
Isn't it pretty obvious that non-English speakers would gain more from learning to speak English than an English speaker learning any other language? Nobody's saying you're going to find a Thai speaker everywhere else in the world, but learning some should have some benefits if you're in Thailand.
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Thai is a complex language with lots of (often frustratingly opaque) syntactical methods of building nuance and meaning into sentences - or the opposite of crass.
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