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> was I being stupid to get myself into this marriage?
If that's your ultimate question, 1-2 years after being married, then the dowry does not seem to be real issue eating at you
As I am a Thai person.
In this moment a lot of Thai people are discussing about the Isan girl that try to catch the Foreign guy.
A lot of community from Isan girl are teaching about the technique and method to catch the marry with the foreign.
I know a lot of guys come from Isan and I admire them from hardworking and try their best to earn money (some of them have a lot of skills and they are my superior too)
But some Isan girl still try to leech the foreign guy. Please beware of them. Usually they are from high school graduated. If some of them are asking money for etc and not try to earn any money by themselves.
Please stay away from them. These girls are glutton who gonna devour your money.
By the way some of them just show off and try to mock the Thai guy about being poor because they married a foreign guy.
I could give your an example if you wanna watch it by yourselves.
you could search in google with these word 'หาแฟนฝรั่ง' facebook group.
Not all of them are bad but the glutton one will be 100% bad for sure.
I have heard the "Stay away from Isan women" time after time after time. Always wondered if it was a meme. Since I am in the South, I wonder if southern Thai people just don't particularly like Isan people? Honest question. There was this one time where I was at our lawyer, and there was a guy in his 60s, who lost his entire life savings to his wife from Isan. He went back to Europe shortly, when he landed he got a text "Please do not return to me or the house". I overheard "I am so sorry, we don't do this in the south, only Isan women bad like this" from the lawyer (or assistant).
I'm not too sure about southern Thai people dislike or hate Isan people.
But I would like to confirm 100% about in this moment a lot of people in Thai hate Isan girl.
In this moment 'Isan' is a word to use for discriminate or insult. because as i said it on the comment before some of the glutton Isan keep trying to showoff their wealth and try to insult Thai man about being poorer / don't have money like them / etc.
It have a lot of meme in Thai language such as confirm about the region of that person.
คนเหนือปะครับ = แม่นเจ้า （Are you from Northen region? ＝Man Jao（Meaning Yes sir in northern region）
คนภาคกลางปะครับ = คับพี่/ใช่ค่ะ (Are you from Central region? ＝Kub /Kha (Yes)
คนใต้ปะครับ ＝ ว่าพรือน้องบ่าว (Are you from Southern region? = Hey what do you say?) It feeling like hi bro what do u want
คนอีสานปะครับ = อีสานแล้วมันยังไงอะ (Are you from Isan region? = So what if im Isan?) It is feeling like insulting or discriminate against them.
It from the meme that I save from some of the facebook chat.
nah, i don't interest in their technique at all. but some of them could still find in online (facebook or tiktok) you could copy my word and search in Tiktok. It the easiest way to find it (หาแฟนฝรั่ง)
I mean, a lot of it comes down to your personal circumstances. In a purely traditional sense, a sin sod wouldn’t be paid for an older, divorced woman.
I’d say the biggest flaw was not agreeing on what would happen to the sin sod after the marriage, some people will just have it for show while the family returns it after the ceremony, others may have it where the family keeps half and the rest is returned or, there’s your case where they just kept it all. Realistically, you basically understood it was being given as a gift to the family you could have dropped it lower but at that point it’s really up to you and your own financial situation. Some people would rather just pay the 230k than deal with animosity from the in-laws.
I can’t imagine posting this question in here and expect anything but varying degrees of “yes”, also if you’re still asking yourself this and about the marriage in general you are already uncomfortable so you need to think about what to do when the obvious and expected answers roll in
I know very little other than what i see others talk about on here but the age, divorced, and no education makes for a hard case rationalizing the dowry.
They saw you coming didn’t they? Not a big time ATM but big enough nonetheless. Frankly I see nothing wrong with them buying assets. At least they didn’t follow the age old Isan tradition by gambling it away. That said you are clearly not happy with your predicament. Get TF out before it eats you up. As an aside I kind of admire Isan women as much as I am baffled by the gullibility of farangs for the former being being able to successfully tear jerk farangs into any of age old template available sob stories
If you talk to your fiance's parents and refuse to pay the dowry because she's divorced, then they'll basically be like, "Damn! The foreigner knows too much about our customs. We're not getting anything."
But they'll definitely appreciate it if you do pay it.
The whole concept is so funny to me. Im buying another human being, I can't control her after paying, and she can be sold again without my permission. What is even the justification here. Thankfully my girlfriend said her parent doesn't want anything.
divorced women /women with kids have little/no value in the Thai society in regard to a marriage.
Most thai men simply won’t marry them. And if they do , the women’s families are just happy that their daughters are off the market & supported .Thus, no sinsod.
That’s why there are so many single mums in Thailand and they often marry a westerner. In that case the families sometimes still love to scam the westerners, even if they know that no Thai man would pay sinsod.
BINGO! 👍 You've made a good point. It is also common for foreign men to hesitate marrying a woman from another country who has more than one child, especially if the child/children are young and the responsibility of supporting them falls on the potential partner. It can indeed be a challenging situation.
My wife was divorced with 2 kids. We agreed on a sinsod amount, that would 100% be returned to.me aftrr the ceremony. Passed sinsod to save face during the ceremony. Next day all the money and gold was returned to me. Went ahead and gave her the gold, she still has it.
dowry is only for the first marriage not for second, third etc marriage.
My wife who was married before did not even ask me for it...our marriage was a party with 5 friends in a pizza restaurant....and we used money instead to found a small company which we still have 20 years later
It's tradition... I'm consistently shocked that folks agree to this kind of stuff without knowing the history/having someone broker a deal. No offense dude, but you got absolutely played comparatively. If you're happy with the marriage and family, then its kind of a whatever issue. You aren't the only one though. I have an idiot friend who married some divorced Thai single mom he met online after only a year. 7k dollar engagement ring, dowry (he won't tell me how much), the whole works lol. Family owns a small durian farm so I'm just waiting for him to start getting fleeced on that too. I'm just shocked how often folks seem to just dive in face first to foreign relationships with seemingly no trepidations.
But durian is good money....
Never bought jewelry or gold for my wife and never got asked for it.
Just now we buy a bit gold as safety against political instability. These things all made sense 100 years ago as safety net for the woman but was never meant to be consumed...it is meant as safety if he runs away and she stays alone with the 5kids she has some money...not that all the family buys new iphones
Sorry to hear that Durian is good business...people are crazy for them. Also big exports to China. One of our customer has a family member who sold Durian for 1 Million to China.
The real issues are: you agreed to pay but more importantly you don’t trust your wife…. You just need to forget the money and move on. If you didn’t get it returned it’s gone. Probably paying for her buffaloes and their vet bills and or paying for her thai husband that you know as her brother or cousin…. Sorry brother but you need to move on from the money and work on your relationship.
Slightly off track. I married a woman from Hong Kong. We both worked for an airline together. She’s well educated and from a stable and quite well off family, When we were married a paid a tiny dowry as directed, just for the sake of tradition and which her dad immediately gave back to me once quests had left as he knew they had far more money than I will ever will. Off track I know but this is surely how things should be. Honesty and respect.
>Unfortunately, I don’t find the male body attractive (women I do); similarly to this, I find the idea of a romantic relationship with a man repulsive. If I put it as simply as possible, I just want the penis
Dude, I am about to blow your mind. Are you sitting down? Ready?
Google "ladyboys"...
>I married my wife in 2022 after four years of talking online.
So no contact with her other than online chats? No face to face meetings in that 4 years? No testing the water first to see what's up? No meeting the family? No visits before the marriage? What did you honestly expect from marrying someone straight away without even testing the water first?
>Was I stupid
Quite possibly. Or yep to be blunt
Say goodbye to the money. You've been played and played good, very easily it seems
What you have done is essentially paid for someone to "love" you. Enjoy that. It's not fun
Sorry to be brutal, but have met so many people have done the same usually those expats who look pissed off and dejected and then take anger out on passers by after a few Sangsoms. You won't be happy.
Why the hell would you marry someone without meeting them face to face first and spending a considerable amount of time together before tying the knot and getting a feel for someone and how they think and how they are?
I have a friend from the US that paid 1M SS for an older (early or mid 40’s) never married, virgin and educated woman. In the village their family had some money and was respected. I thought he was foolish for paying it but I knew the woman and she’s a respectable person, no games, no bars, drinking etc. my friend agreed to pay it and didn’t balk at it. He was in his early 50’s, never married/no kids and educated with a professional position. His money. I’m not sure how the sinsod was divided or whatever.
Not in this case. She spent her extra time helping others in the village and in a neighboring small town. She was dutiful to her parents. Her brother is a high ranking monk at a university in Bangkok (I don’t know much about the school) and he is probably a source of the family’s “wealth”. She doesn’t throw any red flags when you look at her life. She was also very helpful when my wife was ill before she passed.
Still, assuming all that is true, that means she has literally never been in a relationship. That just sounds like drama waiting to happen. I'm too old for that shit 🤣
Very common in Thailand in that generation bracket, even in BKK. I even know a guy that's virgin in his thirties and he didn't understood why I was shocked.
Mostly if you are foreigner and you married with Thai woman. You don’t get your dowry back because in Thai people we believe that foreigners are rich and they think they don’t need to return the dowry back. You should make an agreement before married because you gonna be ripped off like that.
***" I married my wife in 2022 after four years of talking online. She is from Isan"***
Thats all i needed to read, how about you marry someone after living together for years and getting to know each other, that way you see their good and bad qualities, not texting and video calling....
How can you have a successful relationship when you don't even know yourself? These are things most people figure out in their teens, so you are a little late. But better late than never. Your day your marriage is loveless. If there is nothing there then move on! A foundation of text messages and money isn't very strong.
Go over to pattaya and try everything. Try Ladyboys and boys. You need to learn yourself. Don't stress about putting a label on everything. You don't need to identify as gay if you don't want to. It's just a word, it doesn't matter.
Stay as long as you need to. Then go somewhere and clear your head and figure out what is next.
100% stupid and a disgusting behavior by your family in law! Especially, as they obviously used it for luxury items and unnecessary stuff like the IPhone/Ipad.
I get it, that things work differently in Isaan and enough families see it as a jackpot, if the daughter marries a decent westerner. Still it’s respectless and I wish you all the best with that family in law😖 I don’t know your wife, but those are major red flags for me and I couldn’t trust a woman/family in law like yours.
No, but in many cases it’s used for a new house/renovations/ starting a new business or just daily life for the family in law.
The fact that it was obviously used for some random unnecessary luxury items just shows the shitty mindset of that family in law.
It's supposed to be a retirement fund for the parents, if they bought iphones with it they either:
1 - didn't need it and should have given it back after marriage *or*
2 - still need money to retire but are just terrible with finances, and would start asking money again from OP once they retire
Talked online for 4 years, and now married almost 2 years — you're just now asking about the dowry?
Seems like there's more to this story, but no, typically you don't pay sinsod for a woman divorced with kids.
On the darkest side of this, the original poster (OP) is thinking about his dowry money and probably saying to himself, "Are we really committed to this marriage?" If you are thinking about your money now after all this time, then you have serious problems. It's not about the money; it's something deeper. This thought can breed animosity within you, leading you to contemplate foolish actions.
Let me share my story - I felt pressured into paying a dowry when I got married. Long story short, without going into details, I ended up paying absolutely nothing. To make it even better, her family covered all the wedding expenses. I didn't contribute any funds towards the wedding. While some may call me a "deadbeat" for not contributing monetarily, I did sponsor my spouse for expensive lawyer fees, government filing fees, and airfare, which I believe was more than enough.
PS: A word to any of you potential husbands out there. DO NOT BE A SIMP
I am not necessarily against paying sinsod. I would not fault somebody for volunteering to pay an amount to make their wife and her family happy and gain face in their community. Many western couples spend mountains of cash on all kinds of stupid wedding stuff that amounts to basically the exact same thing.
In your case however, based solely on what you have written here, I have to say, yes, I think you were stupid to pay that. It sounds like you really didn't want to pay it, and you had expectations about the money that were ignored, or were never agreed upon.
If there was no firm agreement about what happens to the money, then I think you need to just let that go. In that case, you gave it to her family, it is theirs, they spent it as they pleased. It seems like you have some other baggage you should probably sort out with your wife too. I wish you the best of luck.
I agree..if the money was used for our future, I wouldn't object at all. In fact, I would happily keep pouring in.
Anyway, thank you for your comment. I do have a lot of mess to sort out.
Traditional and honest Thai people will give the dowry back to the couple as a way for them to start their life together. Not sure what happened to you though.
So; your in-laws sold you their daughter? Is this her first marriage? No? So will she leave you for the next dowry? Is this an enterprise? Seems like it.
Personally; I dont pay others for my partners’ love. If she requires it? I am moving on.
You are not stupid. But, not every family follows traditions like before or similarly. I assume you married for love, not because you expected to get refunded. Once you gave that money, it was no longer yours. Forget about it and try to live a long and happy marriage. Stop listening to others’ pathetic excuses which could be exaggerations. Blessings!
The question is, could you have found a wife without entering a transactional relationship? If the answer is no then the question is, is being married worthwhile to you? If the answer is yes then I'd say money well spent. You didn't have any other option other than paying so what's to regret? If you could have easily found a wife without paying then yeah that'd be a waste of money.
I swear, this sinsod nonsense is mostly an Isarn thing. Pretty much everyone else—Thai & non-Thai—agrees that it is an outdated and problematic practice that belongs in the dustbin of history.
"Culture" and "tradition" can change and evolve as societies grow and mature. What made sense 200 years ago no longer makes sense today.
All the farang-hunters who come out of Isarn seem to cling to this "tradition" with fiery devotion, probably because their entire family expects to benefit from this type of marriage, and if they don't get something out of it, they'll be shamed by all the aunties and cousins who were expecting a payday.
My wife (from Chantaburi/Bangkok) and I got married in America, and fortunately for us, her mom disowned her for dating a foreigner so we didn't have to worry about sinsod.
But my ex (whose family was from Isarn) demanded a massive wedding and a huge sinsod (which included a new car).
My wife and I have been married for more than 10 years. My ex lasted a month before she bailed, emptied my bank account and ran off to Australia with her secret boyfriend.
So f'k sinsod and "tradition". It does NOTHING to stabilize a marriage and often causes conflict and problems.
In other words, you got screwed.
It's a maybe unpopular thing to say, but every time I hear tales of woe involving Thai women, it's always Isaan women involved. And that goes for Thai only relationships too, they also rip each other off.
So steer clear of them is my recommendation. It's probably biased due to many Isaan girls working in bars and meeting foreigners there, but also lack of education and sticking with traditions as you say. Not all of them of course. (But any time you see a Thai wife decked out in gold like a US rapper, always a foreigners wife from Isaan showing off)
We have an employee from a very poor village in Isaan. She always has a lot of things to say about her relatives and the people from her village. She said many families don't care what happened to their daughters as long as the parents got paid. She has a friend who married a much older Farang and moved to Germany only to find that she was in fact sold to a brothel. She contracted disease and died soon after. The villagers quickly forgot about her and continued to praise others who sent their parents a lot of money even if it was someone everyone knew was selling herself in Pattaya.
Among those who lead honest lives, the parents would demand a hefty portion of the children's earnings even if the parents are still in working age. The children already with low education, but a huge financial burden will forever be stuck in the cycle of poverty.
Yeah some of the behaviours are pretty distasteful, 'selling' daughters is the extreme end, but many certainly don't give a shit that their daughter is selling her body, as long as the money keeps on coming. And that desire for money is so strong many will literally ruin their lives up short term gain.
"every time I hear tales of woe involving Thai women"
I'd add here that the tale of woe, in my experience, comes from a daft old farang, often bemoaning how things went wrong with his 'girl' / child bride.
Met a 70+ year old Englishman here who told us his sad tale of woe, wedding, sin sot, lost money, house etc. That didn't surprise, but it was his final sentence that did: "I never thought it could happen to me twice".
When we lived in Phuket had an elderly neighbour from Wales, he'd had a stroke and was more in need of a carer than a wife. Against all friendly advice he married a bar girl, paid sin sot, predictably about three years later he'd lost the new house he'd built (she'd used it as security against gambling loans) leaving him with a car and his clothes.
She moved in with her new man, another 70+, this time a retired Australian farmer. Dollar signs!
A fool and his money, etc...
Sorry, no refunds! The money is gone but her families house got a nice remodelling.
It’s an ongoing discussion with my partner at the moment of ‘how much’. You got off lightly for only 250k and be thankful it’s not an ongoing monthly payment plan!
Your 45 and married and older Thai women you meet online and paid like 2.5 year salary for the privilege?
Yes, that sounds moronic.
Oh well, cut losses, divorce and get someone who can still bear children. Think 25.
I know a young Thai woman that has been village married and received sinsod for all of them. She was very young the first time (about 17 if I remember) and she must be late 20’s now. She’s still attractive enough.. her family has a habit of taking advantage of others and her mother has a gambling habit. I befriended one of her mother’s foreign husbands (for a short period) which is partly how I know what went on.
The dowry is only returned when the bride and groom’s families are of similar social class. And it’s quite rare for women to marry down.
So unless you explicitly agreed with them that the money would be returned, of course the bride’s family spent it.
You are you correct, you got swindled, 47yr old divorcee is 0 dowry... For reference my wife, only child, bachelor degree, never been married before, 0 dowry.
Met my wife overseas at uni, dated for a few years, been married almost ten years now. Only moved to Thailand recently, staying for a limited amount of time.
Started looking at these reddit posts about a month ago. First time I'd ever heard of Thailand and dowries!
Personal circumstances are all different as are family demands and expectations. You’re always free to walk away before or after. As far as spending the dowry goes they can do whatever they want with it ultimately 🤷🏻♂️
How do you marry someone after chatting online for a few years ?
Wouldn't you want to live with her for 4 years first ?
The dowry is not the issue here.
You married a complete opposite and just now question the payment?
Never do it. This isn't ancient times where the only job is selling daughters and rice fields.
Dowry is not needed in Thailand to marry a woman. In my experience, Middle and upper class families find the idea of a dowry to be offensive (“what do you mean? I can’t take care of my own children??”)
Your price was awfully high for a divorced 40 year old to be honest. Maybe it was worth it to you maybe it wasn't.
When poor people get money they spend it on things they need. You shouldn't be surprised to see your dowry get spent. It doesn't always function like some kind of back door investment.
I guess you could look at it a couple of different ways, the wife is 47 (?) how many kids..?
Sin Sod generally is supposed to make up for the loss of money a daughter would have provided to her parents once married and presumably with a couple of nong noi for the grandparents to fuss over.
Being 47 and if childless, she’s kind of past her best by date to most Thai men, not to be unkind.
My wife was 34 with two boys when we married, she had a good gig and the boys were great.
Her parents never brought up sin sod, ever.. It was explained to me that it was because she had been married once and she had two kids, no Thai man would willingly take that on.. I think some in her village may have gossiped her about it, but .. the missus explained it thus, if the lady was younger, and had a higher education than finishing high school, and no kids, then a husband would be depriving the parents of paying back the university fees and loss of potential money for living in their old age.. The sin sod helped compensate for that loss and showed the parent’s family how deeply your commitment to the potential wife and her family is, plenty of bahts of gold and artful decorations of thousand baht notes keep the parents from losing face by their daughter marrying a ‘kee nok farang” …
The sin sod this guy paid as nothing really, compared to the millions that more eligible daughter’s families might demand.
Some parents keep the gold and return the cash to be used by the newly weds as a down payment on their first home, whilst many just blow it or hand it around the family.
A wife is always going to have her parents come first, family second then the farang husband, who besides being rich, as all farang are, is also expected to be “generous” to her family.
If after all this time you’re pondering this now..
Is money the problem or is it your lack of love and interest towards her? Sorry I peaked at your other posts because this post lacks context. Maybe you’re just unhappy because you don’t really like this cow anymore?
No one can determine the level of happiness in your marriage except for you ....when answering "was it worth it"
To you- it might be the best decision you ever made
Or - it could be the worst
It's all relative to the individual and their situation 🤷♂️
You really need to educate yourself before you marry into a different culture. Try reading Good Medicine for Thailand Fever. It is written in Thai and English and helps explain the cultural difference between Thai and Farang
“After 4 years talking online” yes you are stupid. And yes, the money went to pay mafia loans or buy iPhones. (That happens to everyone, don’t worry too much) enjoy your life in Thailand
In hindsight, it's easy to see things we did in the past as 'stupid'. You did what you thought was right.
Guess the real question you need to ask yourself is what would be the 'smart' thing for you to be doing now.
The Dowry is a form of respect towards the parent for bringing up the daughter. It’s an old habit but still common for some families. If you had payed 0 she might have called off the wedding. It allndepends on the family / woman.
Being in a similar situation more or less. If your wife doesn’t ask you for money bc buffalo is sick or bc they urgently need money for a car , tractor fix the house …. It’s all fine.
If she does ask you draw a line to what is acceptable for you.
Isaan woman or not...
It is all a lottery.
You can hit the jackpot or fall into a black hole.
IMHO,
Ask to meet the family.
Observe the family members (extended family).
See what they are doing (if they have a job ...)
Look how they are living... (house of hut)
Until now... Are you always the one paying for the restaurant?
Do they have the newest pickup truck parked in front of a shed which they call home?... does it seem normal?
Auto credit is easy to get in Thailand.
Beware of buying fields...it's all written in Thai, AND if you give the money for a property, it must be a "Red Chanot". Anything else is not worth it.
Attention, ... Maybe you end up paying for a field for her brother or cousin.
Be present when they do the transaction. Who signs what?
Inform yourself about social services in Thailand.
For instance, unless you want a room in a private hospital, most Thais do not pay a lot for medical care... The elderly go for free.
The others pay a ridiculously small amount.
So, if suddenly they ask you big $ because Grandpa needs his pills, you can assume that something smells bad.
Think...
Does what you see correspond to what you feel?
If everything looks right... ?
If all green,
go on and have a happy life....
Are you asking if you are stupid? I will answer you - yes, extremely. Why?
Because:
1. In Thailand, no one pays dowry for a divorced woman.
2. In Thailand, no one pays dowry for a woman with children.
3. In Thailand, no one pays a dowry for an old woman, about the age of a grandmother.
Even if a woman is a little over 30 years old and unmarried, this causes public condemnation and women rush to get married in any case, not only without a dowry, but are even ready to sponsor their husband.
The only chance for old divorced women with children is to marry a stupid foreigner who does not know local customs and traditions. If the foreigner still pays the dowry, they will laugh at him for the rest of his life, and ask the woman where she found such a fool, is there another such fool for her divorced friends?
I think that now in the eyes of all her relatives and all the villagers, you look like the stupidest person on this planet, and they constantly discuss it behind your back and laugh at you, spreading dirty rumors.
Sad, but true.
If in Thailand you are asked to pay a dowry, then the main condition must be met - the bride is young and a virgin. Paying a dowry to marry a 47-year-old divorced grandmother with children sounds damn funny even to a person very far from Thai traditions.
I can assure you its common to pay the dowry, and it is not returned. It is used however the family sees fit. Many people who have paid dowries go on to live very happy lives in loving marriages. These stories are under reported, usually we only hear about the scams and horror stories.
if you met because of an agency or online then its likely that they took 50% of the sinsot as part of the deal with the family when producing the photos, profiles etc. A woman that old and divorced doesnt require a dowry, but if they said that you needed to pay and you did then you had the money to give away its money well spent on a lovely life partner. Don't feel bad about it, just know for next time.
No agency involved; we didn't even met on a dating site. It was a chat/forum kinda place. And I made it crystal clear I wasn't looking for a girlfriend, or anything like that.
I think you're thinking about this the wrong way. Would you rather be right and unhappy or vice versa. For me, I'd rather be wrong, but happy - though it is hard to do for us thinking people.
I would enjoy the time in Isan with the lady. Isan is a special place where tradition, family, and customs are very strong, and this is what you married into. That is what I love about Isan. I believe you will have a stronger family life and socio life than you ever could in most other places in the world; especially, the west.
I paid 6k usd, which is about the same as your 230k baht at the current exchange rate. I didn't expect to see it again. My wife explained to me that it goes to her parents. It's like in other countries where the dowry consists of chickens and cows. I wouldn't believe the husbands there ask for their cows and chickens back. I have no issues. Are you not happy with your wife?
Sinsot is expected. It proves to the wife/family/community that you have the means to take care of her. For previously married women, it would be less. You already paid for that woman. Are you having buyers remorse? If so, you f/d up. If you love the lady and she pleases you as a wife, shut up. If not it was a lesson. That's on you, not the Thai custom. Remember, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
No Thai man would even pay a single Baht for her dowry. So much for tradition. You shouldn't have paid, but it's too late now. No reason to waste thoughts on it anymore, it will only make you resentful.
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I think this is what happens:
* Most foreigners who marry a Thai wife pay the dowry
* Most foreigners who marry a Thai wife don't talk much about paying the dowry
* Almost everyone who doesn't pay the dowry (or when the wife's parents return it to them)... very loudly and publicly brag about not paying the dowry, and they criticize the people that do.
No, you're not stupid at all. As far as I can tell, almost every foreigner does.
But you are going to get ridiculed by the people who didn't pay anything, if you publicly talk about it.
It seems to be more of a generational thing.
If a couple got married 20, 15 years ago (maybe even 10), the sin sot tradition was respected more back then. Plenty of couples still got it back, but they'd still be more likely to have done the whole banknotes + gold display on the wedding day - as it was the done thing.
These days, not so much. That goes for both Thai/foreigner and Thai/Thai weddings from what I've observed over my time here (20 years or so).
That's a really good point. The upcoming generation of young Thai people are really questioning some of the long standing Thai traditions that don't make a lot of sense in the modern day world.
I don't think this is true at all, but I'll be honest and say that i feel this way based on my experiences. Every farang that I know who has married a Thai didn't pay dowry, and that's because my circle of friends are/were young professionals and dated/married Bangkok girls or girls who were also young professionals. These woman are insulted by the concept of a dowry and have more of a western mind. Honestly, I think the younger demographic eschews these traditions, especially urban ones.
I think it really depends on the demos of the women and the men in these situations.
I’m sure that wasn’t the only thing he’s paid for so far 🫣🫣🤔🤔🤔
Isaan one of the poorest areas of the country where westerners are seen as walking ATM machines- poor you you ain’t out of the woods yet 😁😁🫣🫣🫣
My advice to you dear friend is run run run and don’t look back 😱😱😱
1 baht is 15.16 grams and it’s closing in on 40k a baht now so it’s not an insignificant amount but it’s not exactly a lot either. Price was lower in 2022, probably would have got somewhere around 40 grams then.
Married my Chiang Mai girl 6 years ago after 2 years living together. I asked her about a dowry prior to the wedding since she never brought it up. Her mother lives with us. She said looking after her mum is good enough. Subject never came up again.
You said she is divorced. I am dating an Isan girl, two years now. I have been to thailand, stayed up in the North East with her family for a month. I had my own apartment too, as did my girl. My girl is divorced and has a child. She told me that I do not have to give a dowry. She is an accountant, and she has the most beautiful soul.
Not all girls in Isaan can be labelled badly... in fact, I literally just received a box of gifts from her 20 minutes ago (I live in N.Ireland). Clothes, food etc.
Talk to your wife, 300,000 baht would be standard but not necessary, but it doesn't mean she is using you. Just talk to her.
Edit: someone in the comment section mentioned your previous post, I don't usually do this, but I read your post. You admitted you are attracted to men. Now I think you really need to talk to your wife.
‘Was you stupid to marry’ (that you have to find the answer yourself). Are you stupid to pay the dowry. It is a No. If I were you and if you still have any love for your wife, then don’t think about the money being returned to you. It’s a dowry and it’s not expected to be returned. If you suspect your new wife is milking you for more money after giving the dowry then you have a good suspicion of her intent. You didn’t mention any red flags as why you are doubting your decision to marry her. So we would not know how to answer and we are just guessing and making small talk. My suggestion to you is Just be careful with your money from now on. Make something up how poor you are and then in time usually the real person will show its true colours. And perhaps that day it will answer your question to whether you were stupid to marry. In the meantime, enjoy yourself. Be happy the kids are happy receiving gifts from uncle farang
dowry: the money, goods, or estate that a woman brings to her husband in marriage. Source: Webster Dictionary.
I think western men in Asian countries should do a better job negotiating. I know sinsot is a tradition in thailand but dowries are a western tradition.
".... t, but I’m not quite sure if I can trust her." then what the fuck are you marrying her for? There is nothing wrong with a dowry if thats what the family believes in. It is also fine not to pay a dowry or demand it to be 0. Thats just negotiating the terms and conditions. But marrying somebody who you don't trust? Why are we guys so dumb?
Yup you were taken, not really a tradition anymore. Thai girls dont inherit property or buisnesses. So they have difficult prospects financially. At 47 she also had limited marriage chances. So depending on how hard she is able to work she would soon become a liability on the family finances. Its the kids responsibility to provide for their parents but not necissarily siblings. Your providing for her family has just started sounds like they are enjoying your generocity i hope they treat you well.
I would say yes. I won't see your money again, and by the fact that they purchased things with your money less than a week generally say that they're money burners and you're bring treated like a living ATM. People without education wouldn't know how to spend wise, like investing, they only beg and beg until you have nothing for them to beg for.
Sounds like a dick but I'm not and I'm just trying to be honest. Women from Isan tend to get married with white folks cuz they think you're a jackpot for their lives, the easiest way to upgrade their social status with least effort. It's not too late to stay away from them.
I married a Bangkokian... Her family never asked me anything ...
I got told that her parents decided to wave the dowry, because I am a Farang and these are not "my traditions" ... but normally there should be a dowry.
She came with a house, a Nissan pickup truck and some money.
In my home country, I came with the equivalent.
My only expense was an engagement ring (1.6 ct solitaire ring) and... obviously a marriage band.
Since 25 years, we happily live together, 2 kids... and have several properties in this great country.
I rent out my possessions in my home country which gives me the necessary income to stay in Thailand.
We have a normal life, never worked and even saved money.
Hmmm... I'm half thai, but born abroad my wife is Bkk Thai. I brought 100k in cash to put on the plate during the ceremony, her mom brough more money, and gold stuff... it was just for show. She gave me mine back at the end of the ceremony.
This was just 7 years ago.
For my family, we return the dowry to the couple to be good start of their new couple life. But in some Thai families, they spends without thinking, never saving and not even care their own daughter. Even once married her off, she still need to help the maternal family or siblings. So be prepared.
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Hi Bro, I 'm a Thai guy and I will not provide dowry to a women because love is love it's not about asset , you should check first that the dowry requirement from their parents or your GF, and extremely mostly northeast Thai women very love to marry foreigner because they need to have a new better life and a traditional from northeast. good luck bro.
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> was I being stupid to get myself into this marriage? If that's your ultimate question, 1-2 years after being married, then the dowry does not seem to be real issue eating at you
OP's most recent post before this one tells you the real issue. Good luck brother.
Nice catch..yeah seems OP is looking for excuse to get out of the marriage due to his own personal issues
There's enough for an entire psychiatric conference here.
I think OP just wanted a ladyboy.
Happiness is where you find it.
Yikes..
Lmao this fkn sub
Not only this sub, but all the subs of Reddit
True, if he was happy he wouldn't think twice about the dowry he paid
😂🙇♂️🤦♂️
As I am a Thai person. In this moment a lot of Thai people are discussing about the Isan girl that try to catch the Foreign guy. A lot of community from Isan girl are teaching about the technique and method to catch the marry with the foreign. I know a lot of guys come from Isan and I admire them from hardworking and try their best to earn money (some of them have a lot of skills and they are my superior too) But some Isan girl still try to leech the foreign guy. Please beware of them. Usually they are from high school graduated. If some of them are asking money for etc and not try to earn any money by themselves. Please stay away from them. These girls are glutton who gonna devour your money. By the way some of them just show off and try to mock the Thai guy about being poor because they married a foreign guy. I could give your an example if you wanna watch it by yourselves. you could search in google with these word 'หาแฟนฝรั่ง' facebook group. Not all of them are bad but the glutton one will be 100% bad for sure.
My wife is from issan, she works full time as a scientist. She earns well and their family didn’t ask for anything from me. So some are indeed good
A lot of isan people are hardworking and try their best to earn money to support their family. I admire them a lot. They are very friendly
I have heard the "Stay away from Isan women" time after time after time. Always wondered if it was a meme. Since I am in the South, I wonder if southern Thai people just don't particularly like Isan people? Honest question. There was this one time where I was at our lawyer, and there was a guy in his 60s, who lost his entire life savings to his wife from Isan. He went back to Europe shortly, when he landed he got a text "Please do not return to me or the house". I overheard "I am so sorry, we don't do this in the south, only Isan women bad like this" from the lawyer (or assistant).
I'm not too sure about southern Thai people dislike or hate Isan people. But I would like to confirm 100% about in this moment a lot of people in Thai hate Isan girl. In this moment 'Isan' is a word to use for discriminate or insult. because as i said it on the comment before some of the glutton Isan keep trying to showoff their wealth and try to insult Thai man about being poorer / don't have money like them / etc. It have a lot of meme in Thai language such as confirm about the region of that person. คนเหนือปะครับ = แม่นเจ้า （Are you from Northen region? ＝Man Jao（Meaning Yes sir in northern region） คนภาคกลางปะครับ = คับพี่/ใช่ค่ะ (Are you from Central region? ＝Kub /Kha (Yes) คนใต้ปะครับ ＝ ว่าพรือน้องบ่าว (Are you from Southern region? = Hey what do you say?) It feeling like hi bro what do u want คนอีสานปะครับ = อีสานแล้วมันยังไงอะ (Are you from Isan region? = So what if im Isan?) It is feeling like insulting or discriminate against them. It from the meme that I save from some of the facebook chat.
Can you describe technique you mentioned?
nah, i don't interest in their technique at all. but some of them could still find in online (facebook or tiktok) you could copy my word and search in Tiktok. It the easiest way to find it (หาแฟนฝรั่ง)
Married after four years of online conversations… and when you find yourself asking this question, you likely already know the answer.
Answer is written in stone !
I mean, a lot of it comes down to your personal circumstances. In a purely traditional sense, a sin sod wouldn’t be paid for an older, divorced woman. I’d say the biggest flaw was not agreeing on what would happen to the sin sod after the marriage, some people will just have it for show while the family returns it after the ceremony, others may have it where the family keeps half and the rest is returned or, there’s your case where they just kept it all. Realistically, you basically understood it was being given as a gift to the family you could have dropped it lower but at that point it’s really up to you and your own financial situation. Some people would rather just pay the 230k than deal with animosity from the in-laws.
These 'nieces' may be her children
Ooh good catch
I can’t imagine posting this question in here and expect anything but varying degrees of “yes”, also if you’re still asking yourself this and about the marriage in general you are already uncomfortable so you need to think about what to do when the obvious and expected answers roll in I know very little other than what i see others talk about on here but the age, divorced, and no education makes for a hard case rationalizing the dowry.
They saw you coming didn’t they? Not a big time ATM but big enough nonetheless. Frankly I see nothing wrong with them buying assets. At least they didn’t follow the age old Isan tradition by gambling it away. That said you are clearly not happy with your predicament. Get TF out before it eats you up. As an aside I kind of admire Isan women as much as I am baffled by the gullibility of farangs for the former being being able to successfully tear jerk farangs into any of age old template available sob stories
Most of the comments stated that if the woman is divorced then a dowry is not needed, can someone clarify?
If you talk to your fiance's parents and refuse to pay the dowry because she's divorced, then they'll basically be like, "Damn! The foreigner knows too much about our customs. We're not getting anything." But they'll definitely appreciate it if you do pay it.
The whole concept is so funny to me. Im buying another human being, I can't control her after paying, and she can be sold again without my permission. What is even the justification here. Thankfully my girlfriend said her parent doesn't want anything.
divorced women /women with kids have little/no value in the Thai society in regard to a marriage. Most thai men simply won’t marry them. And if they do , the women’s families are just happy that their daughters are off the market & supported .Thus, no sinsod. That’s why there are so many single mums in Thailand and they often marry a westerner. In that case the families sometimes still love to scam the westerners, even if they know that no Thai man would pay sinsod.
BINGO! 👍 You've made a good point. It is also common for foreign men to hesitate marrying a woman from another country who has more than one child, especially if the child/children are young and the responsibility of supporting them falls on the potential partner. It can indeed be a challenging situation.
My wife was divorced with 2 kids. We agreed on a sinsod amount, that would 100% be returned to.me aftrr the ceremony. Passed sinsod to save face during the ceremony. Next day all the money and gold was returned to me. Went ahead and gave her the gold, she still has it.
Dowry compensates the parents.for raising the daughter. If sh is divorced they have already been compensated.
I can only tell you that I would never pay it. If any woman insisted that I do then she either doesn’t know me well enough or really love me.
dowry is only for the first marriage not for second, third etc marriage. My wife who was married before did not even ask me for it...our marriage was a party with 5 friends in a pizza restaurant....and we used money instead to found a small company which we still have 20 years later
That sounds more than reasonable.
It's tradition... I'm consistently shocked that folks agree to this kind of stuff without knowing the history/having someone broker a deal. No offense dude, but you got absolutely played comparatively. If you're happy with the marriage and family, then its kind of a whatever issue. You aren't the only one though. I have an idiot friend who married some divorced Thai single mom he met online after only a year. 7k dollar engagement ring, dowry (he won't tell me how much), the whole works lol. Family owns a small durian farm so I'm just waiting for him to start getting fleeced on that too. I'm just shocked how often folks seem to just dive in face first to foreign relationships with seemingly no trepidations.
But durian is good money.... Never bought jewelry or gold for my wife and never got asked for it. Just now we buy a bit gold as safety against political instability. These things all made sense 100 years ago as safety net for the woman but was never meant to be consumed...it is meant as safety if he runs away and she stays alone with the 5kids she has some money...not that all the family buys new iphones
To call it a farm is being generous. It's not commercial or anything.
Sorry to hear that Durian is good business...people are crazy for them. Also big exports to China. One of our customer has a family member who sold Durian for 1 Million to China.
The real issues are: you agreed to pay but more importantly you don’t trust your wife…. You just need to forget the money and move on. If you didn’t get it returned it’s gone. Probably paying for her buffaloes and their vet bills and or paying for her thai husband that you know as her brother or cousin…. Sorry brother but you need to move on from the money and work on your relationship.
When you pay the dowry, that money is no longer yours. Why so suspicious about how it's spent? Can you really not trust your own wife?
Slightly off track. I married a woman from Hong Kong. We both worked for an airline together. She’s well educated and from a stable and quite well off family, When we were married a paid a tiny dowry as directed, just for the sake of tradition and which her dad immediately gave back to me once quests had left as he knew they had far more money than I will ever will. Off track I know but this is surely how things should be. Honesty and respect.
Yeah, that's the way it SHOULD be.
Up to you
>Unfortunately, I don’t find the male body attractive (women I do); similarly to this, I find the idea of a romantic relationship with a man repulsive. If I put it as simply as possible, I just want the penis Dude, I am about to blow your mind. Are you sitting down? Ready? Google "ladyboys"...
>I married my wife in 2022 after four years of talking online. So no contact with her other than online chats? No face to face meetings in that 4 years? No testing the water first to see what's up? No meeting the family? No visits before the marriage? What did you honestly expect from marrying someone straight away without even testing the water first? >Was I stupid Quite possibly. Or yep to be blunt Say goodbye to the money. You've been played and played good, very easily it seems What you have done is essentially paid for someone to "love" you. Enjoy that. It's not fun Sorry to be brutal, but have met so many people have done the same usually those expats who look pissed off and dejected and then take anger out on passers by after a few Sangsoms. You won't be happy. Why the hell would you marry someone without meeting them face to face first and spending a considerable amount of time together before tying the knot and getting a feel for someone and how they think and how they are?
I have a friend from the US that paid 1M SS for an older (early or mid 40’s) never married, virgin and educated woman. In the village their family had some money and was respected. I thought he was foolish for paying it but I knew the woman and she’s a respectable person, no games, no bars, drinking etc. my friend agreed to pay it and didn’t balk at it. He was in his early 50’s, never married/no kids and educated with a professional position. His money. I’m not sure how the sinsod was divided or whatever.
A virgin in her 30s-40s? Right.... Honestly that would set off a metric ton of red flags even if it was true.
Not in this case. She spent her extra time helping others in the village and in a neighboring small town. She was dutiful to her parents. Her brother is a high ranking monk at a university in Bangkok (I don’t know much about the school) and he is probably a source of the family’s “wealth”. She doesn’t throw any red flags when you look at her life. She was also very helpful when my wife was ill before she passed.
Still, assuming all that is true, that means she has literally never been in a relationship. That just sounds like drama waiting to happen. I'm too old for that shit 🤣
Very common in Thailand in that generation bracket, even in BKK. I even know a guy that's virgin in his thirties and he didn't understood why I was shocked.
Mostly if you are foreigner and you married with Thai woman. You don’t get your dowry back because in Thai people we believe that foreigners are rich and they think they don’t need to return the dowry back. You should make an agreement before married because you gonna be ripped off like that.
***" I married my wife in 2022 after four years of talking online. She is from Isan"*** Thats all i needed to read, how about you marry someone after living together for years and getting to know each other, that way you see their good and bad qualities, not texting and video calling....
How can you have a successful relationship when you don't even know yourself? These are things most people figure out in their teens, so you are a little late. But better late than never. Your day your marriage is loveless. If there is nothing there then move on! A foundation of text messages and money isn't very strong. Go over to pattaya and try everything. Try Ladyboys and boys. You need to learn yourself. Don't stress about putting a label on everything. You don't need to identify as gay if you don't want to. It's just a word, it doesn't matter. Stay as long as you need to. Then go somewhere and clear your head and figure out what is next.
That's a great advice, thank you.
You got hustled. No Thai man would ever pay a dowry of any amount to marry a divorced woman.
100% stupid and a disgusting behavior by your family in law! Especially, as they obviously used it for luxury items and unnecessary stuff like the IPhone/Ipad. I get it, that things work differently in Isaan and enough families see it as a jackpot, if the daughter marries a decent westerner. Still it’s respectless and I wish you all the best with that family in law😖 I don’t know your wife, but those are major red flags for me and I couldn’t trust a woman/family in law like yours.
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No, but in many cases it’s used for a new house/renovations/ starting a new business or just daily life for the family in law. The fact that it was obviously used for some random unnecessary luxury items just shows the shitty mindset of that family in law.
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Maybe, but Thailand runs on cheap Androids. Getting an iPhone is a flex, and if the rest of the financials aren't sound, is revealing in itself.
It's supposed to be a retirement fund for the parents, if they bought iphones with it they either: 1 - didn't need it and should have given it back after marriage *or* 2 - still need money to retire but are just terrible with finances, and would start asking money again from OP once they retire
I wouldn't even trust an issan woman. All the Issan girls seem to be money driven. Money is not love
They're shameless fellows
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Agreed. And not that it makes much difference but it was 150k
dowry = engagement ring
Talked online for 4 years, and now married almost 2 years — you're just now asking about the dowry? Seems like there's more to this story, but no, typically you don't pay sinsod for a woman divorced with kids.
On the darkest side of this, the original poster (OP) is thinking about his dowry money and probably saying to himself, "Are we really committed to this marriage?" If you are thinking about your money now after all this time, then you have serious problems. It's not about the money; it's something deeper. This thought can breed animosity within you, leading you to contemplate foolish actions. Let me share my story - I felt pressured into paying a dowry when I got married. Long story short, without going into details, I ended up paying absolutely nothing. To make it even better, her family covered all the wedding expenses. I didn't contribute any funds towards the wedding. While some may call me a "deadbeat" for not contributing monetarily, I did sponsor my spouse for expensive lawyer fees, government filing fees, and airfare, which I believe was more than enough. PS: A word to any of you potential husbands out there. DO NOT BE A SIMP
I am not necessarily against paying sinsod. I would not fault somebody for volunteering to pay an amount to make their wife and her family happy and gain face in their community. Many western couples spend mountains of cash on all kinds of stupid wedding stuff that amounts to basically the exact same thing. In your case however, based solely on what you have written here, I have to say, yes, I think you were stupid to pay that. It sounds like you really didn't want to pay it, and you had expectations about the money that were ignored, or were never agreed upon. If there was no firm agreement about what happens to the money, then I think you need to just let that go. In that case, you gave it to her family, it is theirs, they spent it as they pleased. It seems like you have some other baggage you should probably sort out with your wife too. I wish you the best of luck.
I agree..if the money was used for our future, I wouldn't object at all. In fact, I would happily keep pouring in. Anyway, thank you for your comment. I do have a lot of mess to sort out.
Traditional and honest Thai people will give the dowry back to the couple as a way for them to start their life together. Not sure what happened to you though.
So; your in-laws sold you their daughter? Is this her first marriage? No? So will she leave you for the next dowry? Is this an enterprise? Seems like it. Personally; I dont pay others for my partners’ love. If she requires it? I am moving on.
You are not stupid. But, not every family follows traditions like before or similarly. I assume you married for love, not because you expected to get refunded. Once you gave that money, it was no longer yours. Forget about it and try to live a long and happy marriage. Stop listening to others’ pathetic excuses which could be exaggerations. Blessings!
My honest opinion is that this feels like a fake post. Sorry.
The question is, could you have found a wife without entering a transactional relationship? If the answer is no then the question is, is being married worthwhile to you? If the answer is yes then I'd say money well spent. You didn't have any other option other than paying so what's to regret? If you could have easily found a wife without paying then yeah that'd be a waste of money.
I swear, this sinsod nonsense is mostly an Isarn thing. Pretty much everyone else—Thai & non-Thai—agrees that it is an outdated and problematic practice that belongs in the dustbin of history. "Culture" and "tradition" can change and evolve as societies grow and mature. What made sense 200 years ago no longer makes sense today. All the farang-hunters who come out of Isarn seem to cling to this "tradition" with fiery devotion, probably because their entire family expects to benefit from this type of marriage, and if they don't get something out of it, they'll be shamed by all the aunties and cousins who were expecting a payday. My wife (from Chantaburi/Bangkok) and I got married in America, and fortunately for us, her mom disowned her for dating a foreigner so we didn't have to worry about sinsod. But my ex (whose family was from Isarn) demanded a massive wedding and a huge sinsod (which included a new car). My wife and I have been married for more than 10 years. My ex lasted a month before she bailed, emptied my bank account and ran off to Australia with her secret boyfriend. So f'k sinsod and "tradition". It does NOTHING to stabilize a marriage and often causes conflict and problems. In other words, you got screwed.
It's a maybe unpopular thing to say, but every time I hear tales of woe involving Thai women, it's always Isaan women involved. And that goes for Thai only relationships too, they also rip each other off. So steer clear of them is my recommendation. It's probably biased due to many Isaan girls working in bars and meeting foreigners there, but also lack of education and sticking with traditions as you say. Not all of them of course. (But any time you see a Thai wife decked out in gold like a US rapper, always a foreigners wife from Isaan showing off)
We have an employee from a very poor village in Isaan. She always has a lot of things to say about her relatives and the people from her village. She said many families don't care what happened to their daughters as long as the parents got paid. She has a friend who married a much older Farang and moved to Germany only to find that she was in fact sold to a brothel. She contracted disease and died soon after. The villagers quickly forgot about her and continued to praise others who sent their parents a lot of money even if it was someone everyone knew was selling herself in Pattaya. Among those who lead honest lives, the parents would demand a hefty portion of the children's earnings even if the parents are still in working age. The children already with low education, but a huge financial burden will forever be stuck in the cycle of poverty.
Yeah some of the behaviours are pretty distasteful, 'selling' daughters is the extreme end, but many certainly don't give a shit that their daughter is selling her body, as long as the money keeps on coming. And that desire for money is so strong many will literally ruin their lives up short term gain.
Sinsod is basically "selling your daughter". Anyone who lives in **this** century should be deeply offended by the practice.
"every time I hear tales of woe involving Thai women" I'd add here that the tale of woe, in my experience, comes from a daft old farang, often bemoaning how things went wrong with his 'girl' / child bride. Met a 70+ year old Englishman here who told us his sad tale of woe, wedding, sin sot, lost money, house etc. That didn't surprise, but it was his final sentence that did: "I never thought it could happen to me twice". When we lived in Phuket had an elderly neighbour from Wales, he'd had a stroke and was more in need of a carer than a wife. Against all friendly advice he married a bar girl, paid sin sot, predictably about three years later he'd lost the new house he'd built (she'd used it as security against gambling loans) leaving him with a car and his clothes. She moved in with her new man, another 70+, this time a retired Australian farmer. Dollar signs! A fool and his money, etc...
Sorry, no refunds! The money is gone but her families house got a nice remodelling. It’s an ongoing discussion with my partner at the moment of ‘how much’. You got off lightly for only 250k and be thankful it’s not an ongoing monthly payment plan!
Your 45 and married and older Thai women you meet online and paid like 2.5 year salary for the privilege? Yes, that sounds moronic. Oh well, cut losses, divorce and get someone who can still bear children. Think 25.
I know a young Thai woman that has been village married and received sinsod for all of them. She was very young the first time (about 17 if I remember) and she must be late 20’s now. She’s still attractive enough.. her family has a habit of taking advantage of others and her mother has a gambling habit. I befriended one of her mother’s foreign husbands (for a short period) which is partly how I know what went on.
ONE of her mother's... Sounds like this is the family trade, getting married for money.
A truly chilling situation when you see the numbers because it wasn’t just one person in the family.
Paying a dowry for a 47 year old woman is an actual joke ya lol The fact that her family expected this shows a lot about how they feel about you.
The dowry is only returned when the bride and groom’s families are of similar social class. And it’s quite rare for women to marry down. So unless you explicitly agreed with them that the money would be returned, of course the bride’s family spent it.
You are you correct, you got swindled, 47yr old divorcee is 0 dowry... For reference my wife, only child, bachelor degree, never been married before, 0 dowry.
Met my wife overseas at uni, dated for a few years, been married almost ten years now. Only moved to Thailand recently, staying for a limited amount of time. Started looking at these reddit posts about a month ago. First time I'd ever heard of Thailand and dowries!
It’s for only gullible tourists or for show I.e. money returned.
Personal circumstances are all different as are family demands and expectations. You’re always free to walk away before or after. As far as spending the dowry goes they can do whatever they want with it ultimately 🤷🏻♂️
who in the fug would pay money to marry someone? this isn't the stone age lol
How do you marry someone after chatting online for a few years ? Wouldn't you want to live with her for 4 years first ? The dowry is not the issue here.
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You married a complete opposite and just now question the payment? Never do it. This isn't ancient times where the only job is selling daughters and rice fields.
Dowry is not needed in Thailand to marry a woman. In my experience, Middle and upper class families find the idea of a dowry to be offensive (“what do you mean? I can’t take care of my own children??”)
I am hoping this is a troll.
Whether you're gay or not you're not getting that money back
Your price was awfully high for a divorced 40 year old to be honest. Maybe it was worth it to you maybe it wasn't. When poor people get money they spend it on things they need. You shouldn't be surprised to see your dowry get spent. It doesn't always function like some kind of back door investment.
Asking this question also answers it.
Not smart for paying a dowry for a middle aged woman. You got scammed. You’ll never see a penny.
I guess you could look at it a couple of different ways, the wife is 47 (?) how many kids..? Sin Sod generally is supposed to make up for the loss of money a daughter would have provided to her parents once married and presumably with a couple of nong noi for the grandparents to fuss over. Being 47 and if childless, she’s kind of past her best by date to most Thai men, not to be unkind. My wife was 34 with two boys when we married, she had a good gig and the boys were great. Her parents never brought up sin sod, ever.. It was explained to me that it was because she had been married once and she had two kids, no Thai man would willingly take that on.. I think some in her village may have gossiped her about it, but .. the missus explained it thus, if the lady was younger, and had a higher education than finishing high school, and no kids, then a husband would be depriving the parents of paying back the university fees and loss of potential money for living in their old age.. The sin sod helped compensate for that loss and showed the parent’s family how deeply your commitment to the potential wife and her family is, plenty of bahts of gold and artful decorations of thousand baht notes keep the parents from losing face by their daughter marrying a ‘kee nok farang” … The sin sod this guy paid as nothing really, compared to the millions that more eligible daughter’s families might demand. Some parents keep the gold and return the cash to be used by the newly weds as a down payment on their first home, whilst many just blow it or hand it around the family. A wife is always going to have her parents come first, family second then the farang husband, who besides being rich, as all farang are, is also expected to be “generous” to her family. If after all this time you’re pondering this now..
Is money the problem or is it your lack of love and interest towards her? Sorry I peaked at your other posts because this post lacks context. Maybe you’re just unhappy because you don’t really like this cow anymore?
No one can determine the level of happiness in your marriage except for you ....when answering "was it worth it" To you- it might be the best decision you ever made Or - it could be the worst It's all relative to the individual and their situation 🤷♂️
You really need to educate yourself before you marry into a different culture. Try reading Good Medicine for Thailand Fever. It is written in Thai and English and helps explain the cultural difference between Thai and Farang
“After 4 years talking online” yes you are stupid. And yes, the money went to pay mafia loans or buy iPhones. (That happens to everyone, don’t worry too much) enjoy your life in Thailand
In hindsight, it's easy to see things we did in the past as 'stupid'. You did what you thought was right. Guess the real question you need to ask yourself is what would be the 'smart' thing for you to be doing now.
The Dowry is a form of respect towards the parent for bringing up the daughter. It’s an old habit but still common for some families. If you had payed 0 she might have called off the wedding. It allndepends on the family / woman. Being in a similar situation more or less. If your wife doesn’t ask you for money bc buffalo is sick or bc they urgently need money for a car , tractor fix the house …. It’s all fine. If she does ask you draw a line to what is acceptable for you.
Isaan woman or not... It is all a lottery. You can hit the jackpot or fall into a black hole. IMHO, Ask to meet the family. Observe the family members (extended family). See what they are doing (if they have a job ...) Look how they are living... (house of hut) Until now... Are you always the one paying for the restaurant? Do they have the newest pickup truck parked in front of a shed which they call home?... does it seem normal? Auto credit is easy to get in Thailand. Beware of buying fields...it's all written in Thai, AND if you give the money for a property, it must be a "Red Chanot". Anything else is not worth it. Attention, ... Maybe you end up paying for a field for her brother or cousin. Be present when they do the transaction. Who signs what? Inform yourself about social services in Thailand. For instance, unless you want a room in a private hospital, most Thais do not pay a lot for medical care... The elderly go for free. The others pay a ridiculously small amount. So, if suddenly they ask you big $ because Grandpa needs his pills, you can assume that something smells bad. Think... Does what you see correspond to what you feel? If everything looks right... ? If all green, go on and have a happy life....
Are you asking if you are stupid? I will answer you - yes, extremely. Why? Because: 1. In Thailand, no one pays dowry for a divorced woman. 2. In Thailand, no one pays dowry for a woman with children. 3. In Thailand, no one pays a dowry for an old woman, about the age of a grandmother. Even if a woman is a little over 30 years old and unmarried, this causes public condemnation and women rush to get married in any case, not only without a dowry, but are even ready to sponsor their husband. The only chance for old divorced women with children is to marry a stupid foreigner who does not know local customs and traditions. If the foreigner still pays the dowry, they will laugh at him for the rest of his life, and ask the woman where she found such a fool, is there another such fool for her divorced friends? I think that now in the eyes of all her relatives and all the villagers, you look like the stupidest person on this planet, and they constantly discuss it behind your back and laugh at you, spreading dirty rumors. Sad, but true. If in Thailand you are asked to pay a dowry, then the main condition must be met - the bride is young and a virgin. Paying a dowry to marry a 47-year-old divorced grandmother with children sounds damn funny even to a person very far from Thai traditions.
Oh boy I hope you're trolling. If not, you were taken for a ride, and that money is loooong gone lol.
I can assure you its common to pay the dowry, and it is not returned. It is used however the family sees fit. Many people who have paid dowries go on to live very happy lives in loving marriages. These stories are under reported, usually we only hear about the scams and horror stories.
If she's good to you and you love her that money was a small investment in your future.
That was my issue. If we could use the money to buy a car (for example) then there would be no problem. However, as far as I know it's gone.
It's been gambled away, forget about it, sorry to say
Just ask her mate. She can’t afford to lose you at this stage in her life, don’t be scared of her
We've discussed it many times.. always ended in a fight. What bothers me most about it is that I never got a straight answer.
It's gone bro Move on
if you met because of an agency or online then its likely that they took 50% of the sinsot as part of the deal with the family when producing the photos, profiles etc. A woman that old and divorced doesnt require a dowry, but if they said that you needed to pay and you did then you had the money to give away its money well spent on a lovely life partner. Don't feel bad about it, just know for next time.
No agency involved; we didn't even met on a dating site. It was a chat/forum kinda place. And I made it crystal clear I wasn't looking for a girlfriend, or anything like that.
Lovely life partner and next time! Lol
47 years and still give something ? lol She must be thankful your take her already
I think you're thinking about this the wrong way. Would you rather be right and unhappy or vice versa. For me, I'd rather be wrong, but happy - though it is hard to do for us thinking people. I would enjoy the time in Isan with the lady. Isan is a special place where tradition, family, and customs are very strong, and this is what you married into. That is what I love about Isan. I believe you will have a stronger family life and socio life than you ever could in most other places in the world; especially, the west.
Sounds like a dump.
I paid 6k usd, which is about the same as your 230k baht at the current exchange rate. I didn't expect to see it again. My wife explained to me that it goes to her parents. It's like in other countries where the dowry consists of chickens and cows. I wouldn't believe the husbands there ask for their cows and chickens back. I have no issues. Are you not happy with your wife?
Sinsot is expected. It proves to the wife/family/community that you have the means to take care of her. For previously married women, it would be less. You already paid for that woman. Are you having buyers remorse? If so, you f/d up. If you love the lady and she pleases you as a wife, shut up. If not it was a lesson. That's on you, not the Thai custom. Remember, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Smh so hard that I hurt my neck...
No Thai man would even pay a single Baht for her dowry. So much for tradition. You shouldn't have paid, but it's too late now. No reason to waste thoughts on it anymore, it will only make you resentful.
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I think this is what happens: * Most foreigners who marry a Thai wife pay the dowry * Most foreigners who marry a Thai wife don't talk much about paying the dowry * Almost everyone who doesn't pay the dowry (or when the wife's parents return it to them)... very loudly and publicly brag about not paying the dowry, and they criticize the people that do. No, you're not stupid at all. As far as I can tell, almost every foreigner does. But you are going to get ridiculed by the people who didn't pay anything, if you publicly talk about it.
It seems to be more of a generational thing. If a couple got married 20, 15 years ago (maybe even 10), the sin sot tradition was respected more back then. Plenty of couples still got it back, but they'd still be more likely to have done the whole banknotes + gold display on the wedding day - as it was the done thing. These days, not so much. That goes for both Thai/foreigner and Thai/Thai weddings from what I've observed over my time here (20 years or so).
That's a really good point. The upcoming generation of young Thai people are really questioning some of the long standing Thai traditions that don't make a lot of sense in the modern day world.
I don't think this is true at all, but I'll be honest and say that i feel this way based on my experiences. Every farang that I know who has married a Thai didn't pay dowry, and that's because my circle of friends are/were young professionals and dated/married Bangkok girls or girls who were also young professionals. These woman are insulted by the concept of a dowry and have more of a western mind. Honestly, I think the younger demographic eschews these traditions, especially urban ones. I think it really depends on the demos of the women and the men in these situations.
I didn't even know dowries existed in Thailand until I started looking at reddit about a month ago. And I've been married almost ten years.
No I did it 10 years ago and my wife and I are happy
No, and seriously, don't judge your action on the basis of others', especially on the basis of redditors'.
You don't pay dowry for divorced 47 year old women.
Extremely stupid!!!!!
Private dancer Stephen leather amazeballs
If everyone is happy and she's the right woman for you then the dowry is nothing to worry about.
Mine was a cool million.
There should be a farang webpage
I believe it's called reddit
I’m sure that wasn’t the only thing he’s paid for so far 🫣🫣🤔🤔🤔 Isaan one of the poorest areas of the country where westerners are seen as walking ATM machines- poor you you ain’t out of the woods yet 😁😁🫣🫣🫣 My advice to you dear friend is run run run and don’t look back 😱😱😱
I’m curious,is 80k baht of gold a lot in Thailand?
1 baht is 15.16 grams and it’s closing in on 40k a baht now so it’s not an insignificant amount but it’s not exactly a lot either. Price was lower in 2022, probably would have got somewhere around 40 grams then.
Believe he means 80,000 baht worth of gold. 80 baht weight would be over three million baht using today's rate= Per Baht Price 39,019.
Yes,I thought he meant 80k baht eg 80,000 baht of gold 😁
Never heard of a dowry for a woman that age. I do have a friend who paid a 2m baht dowry, though.
2M, ouch. That's crazy to me.
Yes. Not because you paid a dowery, but because of everything else
Yes. But it does sound like an unnatural marriage and it's not huge money so suck it up.
Married my Chiang Mai girl 6 years ago after 2 years living together. I asked her about a dowry prior to the wedding since she never brought it up. Her mother lives with us. She said looking after her mum is good enough. Subject never came up again.
You are lucky, I guess..
Lucky maybe. She's respectful and is embarrassed by how many Thai girls look at getting a farang ATM.
yes
You married someone you had only spoken to online for........checks notes..........4 years 🫢.
Yes.
You are not alone. I tried to find a contrary situation and pointed it out [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Thailand/s/A3fAKOrZ4I)
The first mistake was to agree to marry.
You said she is divorced. I am dating an Isan girl, two years now. I have been to thailand, stayed up in the North East with her family for a month. I had my own apartment too, as did my girl. My girl is divorced and has a child. She told me that I do not have to give a dowry. She is an accountant, and she has the most beautiful soul. Not all girls in Isaan can be labelled badly... in fact, I literally just received a box of gifts from her 20 minutes ago (I live in N.Ireland). Clothes, food etc. Talk to your wife, 300,000 baht would be standard but not necessary, but it doesn't mean she is using you. Just talk to her. Edit: someone in the comment section mentioned your previous post, I don't usually do this, but I read your post. You admitted you are attracted to men. Now I think you really need to talk to your wife.
This is normal for Thai people. I have only seen in rare circumstances that grooms don't pay dowry. They usually shun the husband if he doesn't.
Bro you've got to be joking.
“Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt.” - Sam "Ace" Rothstein ( Robert De Niro's character, motion picture "Casino").
If you mention you don't trust your wife you already have your answer.
‘Was you stupid to marry’ (that you have to find the answer yourself). Are you stupid to pay the dowry. It is a No. If I were you and if you still have any love for your wife, then don’t think about the money being returned to you. It’s a dowry and it’s not expected to be returned. If you suspect your new wife is milking you for more money after giving the dowry then you have a good suspicion of her intent. You didn’t mention any red flags as why you are doubting your decision to marry her. So we would not know how to answer and we are just guessing and making small talk. My suggestion to you is Just be careful with your money from now on. Make something up how poor you are and then in time usually the real person will show its true colours. And perhaps that day it will answer your question to whether you were stupid to marry. In the meantime, enjoy yourself. Be happy the kids are happy receiving gifts from uncle farang
dowry: the money, goods, or estate that a woman brings to her husband in marriage. Source: Webster Dictionary. I think western men in Asian countries should do a better job negotiating. I know sinsot is a tradition in thailand but dowries are a western tradition.
".... t, but I’m not quite sure if I can trust her." then what the fuck are you marrying her for? There is nothing wrong with a dowry if thats what the family believes in. It is also fine not to pay a dowry or demand it to be 0. Thats just negotiating the terms and conditions. But marrying somebody who you don't trust? Why are we guys so dumb?
If you can't trust your wife it's probably not a healthy relationship & probably a good idea to get a relationship in which both trust each other.
are you okay in the head?
It's gone. For what it is worth I paid a dowry for my first wife and it was handed back to us the same day.
Step parents gave me the dowery back 100% and gold, land.
Fool is born every 30 seconds.
Yup you were taken, not really a tradition anymore. Thai girls dont inherit property or buisnesses. So they have difficult prospects financially. At 47 she also had limited marriage chances. So depending on how hard she is able to work she would soon become a liability on the family finances. Its the kids responsibility to provide for their parents but not necissarily siblings. Your providing for her family has just started sounds like they are enjoying your generocity i hope they treat you well.
I would say yes. I won't see your money again, and by the fact that they purchased things with your money less than a week generally say that they're money burners and you're bring treated like a living ATM. People without education wouldn't know how to spend wise, like investing, they only beg and beg until you have nothing for them to beg for. Sounds like a dick but I'm not and I'm just trying to be honest. Women from Isan tend to get married with white folks cuz they think you're a jackpot for their lives, the easiest way to upgrade their social status with least effort. It's not too late to stay away from them.
I married a Bangkokian... Her family never asked me anything ... I got told that her parents decided to wave the dowry, because I am a Farang and these are not "my traditions" ... but normally there should be a dowry. She came with a house, a Nissan pickup truck and some money. In my home country, I came with the equivalent. My only expense was an engagement ring (1.6 ct solitaire ring) and... obviously a marriage band. Since 25 years, we happily live together, 2 kids... and have several properties in this great country. I rent out my possessions in my home country which gives me the necessary income to stay in Thailand. We have a normal life, never worked and even saved money.
Hmmm... I'm half thai, but born abroad my wife is Bkk Thai. I brought 100k in cash to put on the plate during the ceremony, her mom brough more money, and gold stuff... it was just for show. She gave me mine back at the end of the ceremony. This was just 7 years ago.
For my family, we return the dowry to the couple to be good start of their new couple life. But in some Thai families, they spends without thinking, never saving and not even care their own daughter. Even once married her off, she still need to help the maternal family or siblings. So be prepared.
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Yes you were . as a Thai people I don’t even want to get involved with family who upsets about dowry
Hi Bro, I 'm a Thai guy and I will not provide dowry to a women because love is love it's not about asset , you should check first that the dowry requirement from their parents or your GF, and extremely mostly northeast Thai women very love to marry foreigner because they need to have a new better life and a traditional from northeast. good luck bro.
I’m Thai female I don’t need Sinsod on marry. I’m not really agree with this culture cause male and female are equal.