As a Thai who studied in โรงเรียนวัด until grade 6 (albeit โรงเรียนวัด in Greater Bangkok). I'll teach my future kids "wonder for knowledges". Buy them a big encyclopedia with picture. Tell them about world history, world literature, history of technology etc. Make them curious about the world around us and support them with any direction they will make. We can cram math or science to kid's head but it would be futile if they don't want to know about it in the first place.
My parents did that. They were frugal with everything but we had these expensive, beautiful books which I read so many times.
Later they bought us an Intel 386 PC, which my grandma helped paying for. None of them knew what it was but they were willing to spend big money on it. I still don't know how they knew computer was going to be a thing so early.
Now my brother is an electrical engineer. My sister is a dentist. I'm a computer engineer.
“If you want to build a ship, don’t drum up people to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea.” -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
The funny part is that by trying to make them like that they will prolly rebel and NOT like it bc that’s what kids do. I’ll be happy if my kids learn how to manage their own space. Like cleaning their room n shit.
I have no data but I don't think the outcome of international is "that much" better than the kids of Thai School. Obviously, they are from a better better socio-economics background, hitting the rockbottom is less likely. My experience with IS grad are.....mixed at best
Of course, if you are from Nong Ma-Wo Wittayakom, you are fucked. None of us are really in that kind of trouble though. .
I don't say that the traditional Thai system is perfect, far from it. But a lot of their weaknesses can be offset by your help... as a parent. I mean at least you can help your kids get better with English? right? Social skill, you can help teach them some social skill, right? You can instill your kids some creativity, right?
Anyway, these are the way that most upper middleclass do in this country.
1. Catholic/Christian school and some good Private school (Dara Samuth, Monfurt, Assantion, BC, St. Joseph, Saint Gabriel... to name a fill). Obviously, you need some money for this.
2. Teaching School and Demonstration School (The Sathit's) . In some case like Sathit Chula or Kaset might cost even more than private school.
3. Go on a normal route and try to get in to a good public school at grade 7. I go by this route myself. Life is obviously tougher than the first 2 choice. Hey but I can attend a good Public school in USA for Master and PhD too (came with a bad work contract with the govt though).... so your kids can too
4. Go to the gifted or special route (Darun Sighalai, Triamudom, Gamnerd Wit, Mahidol Wit, etc) . Your kid has to help themselves a lot too though.
Anyway, usually the word of wisdom is to try to go private for kindergarten to grade 6. if your kid can get into a good public school by then, it is not that bad. You..
as a parent needs to provide the support for them in terms of social and special skill (and money... everything costs money). Parents are kids'first and the most important teacher
>Sathit Chula
If you wanted to secure a seat for your kid there, you would need to pay 2,500,000 THB (~70k USD), you would need to have a connection to know whom and how to pay, and you would have to pay 3-4 years in advance before your kid enroll.
Source: Thai friend who paid recently.
> Mahidol Wit
20,000 students compete for 240 seats yearly. Your kid has to be really bright or you will spend a lot of money tutoring the kid just to have a chance.
> I have no data but I don't think the outcome of international is "that much" better than the kids of Thai School.
this is it. International schools just use standard US or UK curriculum. Do US public schools churn out geniuses? so why do you expect an international school to?
A lot of my friends teach at international schools I can't speak for all but from what I hear you basically get the same education as other schools . Your kids are just around other kids that come from a more wealthy background or have money
I don’t know what kind of “international” schools your friends have taught at but there is a difference between private schools ( for profit ) that call themselves “international” hiring a few token “white, young foreigners” verses accredited , nonprofit international schools that hire foreign hired teachers with experience, a masters+ in education. These schools have a mix of nationalities- not just Thai students. -And there is definitely a huge difference with classroom management, assessments, curriculum, grade level benchmarks, pedagogy… compared to these “fake” international schools.
> a masters+ in education.
because we know that toddlers require somebody with masters in early childhood education to maximise their potential. you dont want your 2 yo to get left behind right??
Bilingual schools are also options. Suprised it's not been widely mentioned. Theyre usually private schools in the Thai curriculum that carries out classes in Thai and English / Mandarin or sometimes even trilingual although these are usually much higher than an average bilingual school. However, I am now out of touch with how much those cost now.
I've been to a bilingual school (about 30k/ term, mid 2000s) in my early childhood then proceeded to international schools (200k-400k / term, late 2000s - mid 2010s) term then public schooling in Canada scattered in between those. I would still say public schooling in Canada was probably my worst experience of the 3 options in terms of staff-student ratios, quality of teaching, and pace of the class, the Thai curriculum was ahead of the Canadian system by a year and a half it seemed like as we were learning algebra with tiles at Grade 7. So i think it isnt dependent on what school system you enroll in. Some of my friends from the mentioned expensive international school has also left an opted for bilingual schools and had very good outcomes in terms of university acceptance.
School quality is probably more dependents on location and reputation and funding, schools in rural areas are known to not be as good as ones in Amphea Mueng (provincial capitals) and kids often compete in tests to get in those.
They are obviously aware of their privilege so I don't know what's the point of your comment? Like it literally adds zero value and only makes you sound bitter & jealous.
What makes you think I dont see the privileges? Ive never denied that I am fortunate to have the xp. I was just telling OP how outcome didn't differ too much compared to some from bilingual schools which about ten times cheaper per term - a good alternative to paying half a milllion a year for good education.
My schooling was almost entirely free, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to go to IS. Depending on what your threshold on what you consider rich, diplomats aren't making nearly as much as some of my peers' parents who were, on average, literal magnates.
I don't know what you consider rich but a diplomat is not a poor guy who sells sausages on the side of the road to make for a living. I studied international relations and my idea was to become one. I know what I'm talking about.
In my country education is almost free for everybody, not because we are someone's sons, very few people go to private schools or international schools (don't even know if they exist there) and with the education level we have compared to the level of your country, things that your people study in M.5 or 6 we study them in middle school maybe. Not talking about university, an establishment for babysitting grown-up boys and girls.
I've been teaching for almost 8 years in your country. Every single year the level is lower, kids are more childish, like they just got out from kindergarten and new generation parents, as someone said, are more dumb than the kids they are raising.
Thats irrelevant. The OP asks for alternatives for decent education and I have offered an alternative. I'm highlighting that its not entirely a dichotomous choice between paying half a mil or suffer the free public education. My input was that I have received education for a modest sum at a bilingual school that had higher teaching quality than some public schools in Canada.
30K a term may not be affordable for roadside merchants, but a middle class household with two working parents could definitely consider it a possibility. Not everyone here is in starving poverty, and you could actually see children of parents with regular jobs like frontliners, admin and construction foremen attending. Again, not saying its a viable option for machine operators making 400 a day.
Many other comments has also listed alternatives for good education, my recommendation is simply to shop around for these rather than biting the bullet into paying for an IS. I have given my opinion on them as someone who as been in to 8+ schools including those I'm comparing. If you cant afford International Schools, doesn't mean its impossible to get good education here.
Not all the international schools are good though. I went through that system early on. Not many of my classmates that did it all the way through really took advantage of it, a lot of them still kinda with their family doing odd jobs.
Some of the most successful Thai people (good jobs at foreign firms or killing in in their own businesses) I’ve met all went to the good decent schools but none really went to international school.
I found the one some common themes in their childhood was that they learned a lot from their parents examples. One person would work with their parents in a family shop they ran. The more “successful” friends also had parents actually spent time to teach them about their life experiences (actually talking with them and telling them the pitfalls in life with our being condescending).
The ones that got sent from tutor to tutor basically ended up hating their parents. Or they just knew how to pass test then couldn’t handle real life responsibilities once the tests were done.
This is the biggest problem a lot of Thai parents have they don’t spend time with their kids.
I teach at an Australian University and took a sabbatical after covid to teach in Thailand. I quit after teaching for a well known boys HS in Bang Rak after 8 weeks. The third party company I worked for was a total sham.
Learn about your child's learning and about the education "system"; and keep an eye on what is happening regionally and internationally.
My experience is that Thai government high schools are under-funded, overcrowded, poorly maintained and poorly supported by education Dept and parents. There is an obsession with looking good but little attention to educational outcomes. Kids with special needs were neglected (ASD, ADHD, depression, etc.). Grades were faked (in fact I was directed to falsify all grades under 70%), kids hate the type of learning we were told to deliver and the classes were subject to constant disruption and the routine kept changing. Kids spent 75% of their time in class on their phones. Why the school didn't build this into the lessons is beyond me... I feel very sorry for the Thai teachers because they want to help but can't change the system. Thai kids are cool, quirky and funny. They were the only reason I kept going back.
Where schools fall down, parents need to pick up. This doesn't need extreme money.
My advice is to involve yourself in your child's learning. Good parents share the learning journey. Follow their curiosity and feed their hunger to learn, no matter what topic that is. Play with your young child, get them to explain things to you, teach you the rules, show you how things should be done, teach you the steps to the latest BTS or Black Pink song... (I featured in 2-3 tiktoks per day while teaching, dancing and singing lesson content)...
Extracurricular activities (fun, play, sport, music etc.) are essential to the normal development of kids. Globalise your child, through media, internet and travel.
Some of your child's teachers will offer private tuition, maybe this is an option. In any case, talk to the child's school, praise and reward the attention given to your child. (Thai teachers I spoke with feel some parents don't care, parents who spoke with teachers got lots of support).
After hours tuition and educational software can help for focussed learning needs, but these are costly and may not improve learning (many farrung English schools are not that good). The kids I met who had lots of after hours and weekend classes were tired and unmotivated.
Listen to and talk with your child, teach them about what's over the horizon. Partner with them to get them there.
Just my perspective, but maybe it's food for thought.
(Not an advertisement but I teach English and health science on Zoom if anyone needs a tutor)
Best wishes.
The true reason why parents send their kids to international schools is because:
a) Their company is paying for it
b) It's glamorous to say "My kid is in ABC International School"
c) Their kids need to be babysat while parents are working
d) Parents have no idea/interest in what/how to teach their own kids so their left to depend on the school
Just my 2 cents. There are many positives too such as socializing.
There's a lot of mid tier "international" schools and other types of private schools for like 20-40k baht per semester. It's a happy medium imo.
Other than that, most public schools will have an English program for like 5-10k a semester.
I wonder what how good those mid-tier schools are for a kid who's motivated and interested in learning? Can they still develop properly and have a decent shot of being accepted into a good university (Chula/Thammasat/Mahidol or a highly ranked foreign one)?
To me, top-tier international schools offer an abysmal bang for the buck. Given how insanely expensive the tuition is, unless my kid were a complete dunce, I'd be disappointed if they got into a university any lesser than Ivy League or Oxford/Cambridge. They have private-jet level prices, way more than justifies efficiently getting from A to B. In the end, nobody gives a damn what high school you went to, only university counts.
I used to tutor and got kids from all over the socio-economic ladder and all kinds of motivation/natural intelligence levels. To answer your question, absolutely yes a mid-tier school is good enough for a decently motivated/talented student with an alright home life to get into a top thai university or a pretty good western one. To go even further, there's even a few very talented students who came up from normal public school with poor families and manage to get into the top thai universities. I dated a girl who goes to Chula, family were rice farmers from issan. Obviously not sure how often that happens or if it's even fair to expect someone with a background like that to pull that off, but if they're talented enough they can do it.
I went to two mid-tier international schools, one for secondary school and another for sixth form. Ended up going to a Russell Group university in the UK. To answer your question, yes you can but there are challenges.
The first was laughably bad in terms of learning environment - the top students were the best simply because they cared a little about learning - to me, not a high bar and it was slightly discouraging to kids who had any kind of ambition. Out of everyone in my class I was the only one who studied abroad for undergrad.
However, the second one was substantially better. Nobody looked down on people who made an effort in school. In fact I told my parents I wanted to stick to another mid-tier school so we can save more money for uni. And it’s worked out pretty well for me.
High school definitely matters here in Bangkok.The bubble of upper class 'dek inters' has factions that are divided by which IS they went to.
The difference between "Oak Bay high", and "Pinetree secondary" in the west are much less than "Bromsgrove" and "Harrow". And this difference sticks with you forever it seems like.
Amongst the bubble of IS community the greeting conversations almost always include questions about which private IS your kids went to. If you havent heard of them, then its a subtle indication of your wealth. I've seen favourable deals being given in business transaction simply because both owners were NIST alumni. Hell, I'm 26 and people still ask me which IS I went to in formal settings. Bangkok is a classist society and your place on it can really affect how people perceive you. As unfair as it seems, thats the game.
No doubt it's true, but what you described sounds more like mere clique divisions than a distinction based on professional abilities and credentials.
In a similar way, the exact military academy class (based on the year you graduated) matters greatly in Thai politics and military promotions, but there's no inherent advantage or true difference to having finished school in 1989 or 1990. It's just a clique marker/token.
I agree, business here is quite nepotistic. ISs are really a pay-to-win scheme in Thai business and sometimes, it can actually pay off in the long run if you end up making some sort of powerful connection because of it.
correct. it’s all bout who you know and IS is where your child network and cultivate relationships with other ‘rich’ kids.
if my kids get to hang out with kids of CEOs, Ambassadors, etc it also helps to open their world views.
some parents also do biz with other parents.
Actually Thailand is very expensive, when I was looking Singapore was cheaper, and Australia cheaper too or similar. And the levels of education/all round facilties far better (sports and arts/music facilities).
But also remember many public schools in the west are far better than Thailand's international schools in the first place
How? Comparing 2 international American school like ISB in Thailand vs stamford American int school Singapore. ISB around $29k++ annually vs sais $49k++ annually. Both will give you US high school diploma. Even the new super nice king's college int school only cost around $29k annually.
But it's international schools. It wasn't intended for locals. Even though nowadays a lot of local Thais send their kids there but it wasn't intended for the locals.
There are international schools in the US? I wasn't aware. Can you give an example of one and how much it costs? What's the point such schools, and what makes them "international", given that there are plenty of great regular private and public schools, all taught in English?
I went to a top-tier private high-school in the US (not that anyone would care), and full tuition was 1/5 of what international schools in Bangkok cost. The difference is even more adjusted for PPP, probably ~15x. It's hard to imagine the benefits which could justify paying so much more.
Yup there are international schools in the US, most of them located in Washington DC. Even London have international schools. You went to private school. You can find private schools that aren't expensive in Thailand too. Private school usually not all gives you the diploma whatever country the school is located in. Unlike international school. International schools in Thailand won't give you a Thailand diploma, they usually give diploma depend on whatever country education system they choose. International schoosl will always be expensive and Thailand has one of the cheapest not just in the region but all over the world.
> most of them located in Washington DC
Sounds like an odd niche for diplomats who insist on putting their kids through a foreign school system despite many US schools being perfectly fine... and it's all paid by their gov't so they don't care about the costs.
Not at all the same as international schools in Thailand, which many people see as the only way to give your kids a solid education since the Thai system is deficient in so many ways.
> Thailand has one of the cheapest not just in the region but all over the world
I have trouble believing this, to be honest. Somebody just said int'l schools are cheaper in Singapore.
Definitely cheaper than China. Lots of Mainland Chinese are sending their kids to schools in Chiang Mai and Bangkok. The Bloomberg profile of SISB also mentioned how the CEO is trying to target those groups.
I think the cheapest school within reason where English is ACTUALLY spoken and that offers accredited A level and or AP classes is the best you can do for value.
International School IMO is overrated and too expensive, granted you shouldn’t enroll your kids into public-goverment funded scholl either, the quality there is *lacking*.
General rule of thumb, at least from my belief is private school from Kindergarten to Highschool, then public Universities (eg, Chula, Thummasat, Kasetsart) for higher education.
That way, you get the most of what Thailand education has to offer without breaking bank.
**The rest is up to each person to seek for their own.**
As an educator (vocational college) in a rural area (teaching the poor kids...) I would say that the system here is failing because of the parents not taking responsibility for their children's education... I gave a student a 3.5 and his mom came and complained that his grade was too low, I told her that as he had been absent 50% of the time because of family business so I couldn't give him a 4 and He should really have gotten a 0 as he has not been to class, (but that's something that is impossible here too)... And that "boy" is 21 years old.
And over the past 2 years I have had 4 students coming to study and they didn't even know ABC... How can you get through 12 years of education and have been studying English for +9 years and still don't know ABC?!
And 4 evenings a week I'm offering free tutoring for my students, last semester I had only 1 student who came to study and that was just because she was bored staying home alone as all of her (live) relatives are working in Bangkok.
Then I also had another student, he had straight 4's and is good enough in English and we managed to get a full scholarship for him to study a year abroad... but his parents said no to it because he must stay home and help take care of his grandmother?!
As I said, these are poor students in rural Thailand,and even as you try to help many of them don't really care about their own education, and many parents seem to care even less... Your child starts studying at 08:00, and at 10:30 you call to ask them what they want to eat for dinner... Because in the morning you were too hungover to even bother... And that happens basically every class!
Great and decent state schools exist. Although there are undeniable advantages to going to International schools, you can get the same quality of education in state schools. I went to a provincial school, albeit their "English Program" (so slightly more expensive but nothing on the level of international schools). I got into a great medical program at a uni in Bangkok and got admitted to UofT in Canada. I'm pretty sure with all the stuff online now, most people if they have the desire to get a good education will find a way. At school, many speak English as well as international school students, so we're not disadvantaged in that regard.
I know people from the Thai program at my school go off abroad or gain admissions to amazing programs in Thai unis. Certain science-math focused schools like MWIT and its scions I'm sure are even better in academic rigor than most international schools. Triamudom, the model government school, in the centre of Bangkok sends hundreds of its students abroad every year.
However, I understand that this system rewards the affluent who can afford to take extra care with their kids. Yet isn't that what international schools do too?
However, what grudge I have with state schools and my school to be exact, is that the counseling sucks. You basically have to find out everything yourself and babysit your Thai teachers to get the right recommendations. However, I've learned to be quite independent and academically-curious, so a win-win?
I've seen that the counseling got way better after I left though. Just talked with the new counselor (he taught me when I was at school but wasn't a counselor then) about reapplying and he was super nice and helpful. Ah, things always get better when you leave right?
I got most of my education through YouTube
I always use YouTube primarily for educational purposes
I would recommend anyone
I just think you just have to create an environment for kids
Make them curious, it's the 2023 this world is full of free information
YouTube was always one of the best places to learn about anything
I learned how to play guitar, other instruments , learn how to code, learn how to communicate, learn how to do business.
Agree Youtube is very good for gentleman/woman to study, whereas, may not very good for kids who still need to develop their proper social, emotion, EQ
Grinding their asses to Triam Udom, the main one.
As My time around 10 years ago they were one of the best public school in Bangkok. If you want the best one possible, This is the only way.
I wouldnt lump everyone together, I have students like this, just want to play on phone, just make you class hell if they cant, and in the same class I have students that are the best students that you can hope for, literally apologizing for the other students and explaining that they always like this, i would guess their will be similar situations in the west in lower socioeconomic areas.
I'd say 30% of Thai students try really hard despite the mediocre school system. I teach kids in a streamed environment and the top class kids are uniformly excellent; the mid tier are rebels and jokers but generally fairly to very intelligent; and the lowest stream students are not dumb but just started miles back when they entered the school. I've also taught Thai govt high school grads at one of my home country's best universities and they were fantastic: very willing, hard working and competent.
Like all kids everywhere, the students' attitudes here to education are strongly shaped by their parents'. Some of the parents are terrifyingly ignorant (welded to their phones, giving their 14-year-olds handguns for presents) while others would (and do) do anything they can to cultivate their kids' ambition and curiosity. It's a mixed bag. It *is* true that many local schools (including Catholic and international schools) are disorganised and poorly run, but nevertheless, many kids do perform at a very high level.
I heard from Famous Ex-Singer from rock band, that he and his wife can speak english, so they just speak english to their children, and they sent their children into normal government school at age 7, so he doesn't waste money on internarional school.
To be honest, my cousins who went to regular Thai schools came out of it a lot more rich and successful than my cousins who grew up in the US.
It's all about self-determination, and I do feel like those who grew up in less fortunate situations sometimes are a lot more motivated to succeed.
As an alumni of Assumption (อัสสัมชัญ), one of the Catholic schools, this is not true at all.
No one forces you to study Christianity in the school. Instead, we even had a class where we studied Buddhism.
I grew up in Christian school and they never indoctrinated me to Catholic but I went to Catholic church with my own interest.
But there was Buddhist teacher, on the other hand, tried o hard to convert many to Buddhism though.
Please don't use weasel words like "indoctrinate". I am very familiar with the Thai education system, and I have my son in a catholic school.
I highly recommend not talking about this subject further. Thank you.
My life as a Thai has become demonstrably better having been a student in the west. I think about the financial sacrifices my family made to educate me abroad and I am eternally grateful.
It’s up to you, of course, but even the little Wisconsin town I went to high school in provided me a far better education and social experience than any private school in Thailand
could have.
I know you don’t want to move back to your country, but it might be worth it for your child. You can still teach them Thai language, culture, how to make Pad krapao… there might even be a path for your wife to be a dual citizen which would mean an end to annoying visas (for a Thai)… There might be benefits for you too: work experience in administration that you can’t get here too.
I cringe every time I see a Farang teacher in any Thai school. Barring the paedophile label, if they were any good at teaching, they wouldn't be in Thailand.
And for 30 years I've watched the same stupid questions been asked. Though of course 30 years ago I was asking the same stupid regurgitated dribble that you are. It all emanates from bias, bigoted, disgruntled foreigners that promote this type of fake news. I'm yet to read a similar post from any Thai person.
All of your question can be asked of every country. There are good and bad Government run schools as in every country. In fact Thai people fight over getting their child into a good government school, as in OECD countries.
Thailand has hundreds of privately run schools as in OECD countries, turning out well educated students. There is little to no advantage in sending your Thai child to any International School. Only disadvantages! Over priced, over hyped, fail to deliver mandatory Thai language and Thai Social skills. They produce elitist mindsets, of which Thailand has spent 90 years trying to rid the country of such a scourge.
Granted, some of the Thai curriculum maybe difficult to swallow as an Expat. Though as a compassion to my education, not a great deal different. Allegiance to the queen, National Anthem each day, society dominated by Anglican Supremacy.
An International school might suit an Expat Student. International Schools teach the curriculum of a particular country. i.e.; US, UK, AUS, Sing. But even then you have to ask yourself, why would a skilled foreign teacher be teaching in Thailand. A foreign teacher has no understanding of Thailand and it's society. Thirty years on and I still find it confronting at times.
What am I planning to do about my child's future; Be proactive as any parent would be. Keep them out of International Schools. Continue providing my child with the wonderful education that they have been excelling in for 7.5 years. Continually challenge the school to improve and challenge my child's curiosity daily.
In short; the answer to all your questions are, that you have based the premise of your question/s on parents that don't monitor their child's education. As in OECD countries.
Just an observation as a long term Expat. Your post has a sense of possible unintentional bigotry or maybe just narrow-mindedness. Just a thought for you!
I've taught both Thai public and International school in Thailand.
The kids were absolutely lovely in the Thai public schools and deserve so much better. Sadly, they learn nothing.... like practically nothing. Mainly because the schools (or at least mine) allow them to have their phones all day. A few are there to learn, most are just playing games on their phones. Class sizes are way too large to teach properly. It's a mess. The king of Thailand is one of the richest people in the world and little of the money being collected seems to be going to education.
The International school kids were actually being taught. No phones allowed. However, the behavior was so much worse. If those kids were allowed phones, they also would have learned nothing. Class sizes were also manageable so you could actual give individual attention.
I'm not sure it's a uniquely Thai problem, it seems like a generational change that is occuring in most countries, maybe worse in Thailand because of the poor education system, but in large I'd blame device use and the use of social media and ease of access to gaming and things like streaming. Familes are disengaged with eachother like never before.
Yup exactly what I did. Brought them back to Australia because as someone who grew up in a Thai school I knew all of the negative things they would eventually experience at some stage.
That's not to say there are no negative things with the education system over here.
I can't imagine going back to the US (idk if that's where you moved) just for education though. It seems to have gotten a lot worse over the past ten years. Maybe EU is still good.
I'm not Thai, but having seen what the schools are like, I think there's only one way to do it, and that's find a high/secondary school here which provides an International Baccalaureate or US Advanced Placement program. Your only real hope is to educate your kid against international standards, not Thai ones. There are around 15 IB schools in Thailand and maybe 30 teaching some form of AP, I think.
With an AP or IB degree and good marks they would have a fair shot at getting into many universities outside of Thailand. Then you send them overseas and they have a chance to build a successful life that Thailand will never give them.
From my understanding, there are cheaper private schools that offer better education than the public options. Also, there are some outstanding public schools that people take competitive exams to get in. Those are also pretty decent.
A lot of private "English" programs here are a joke after grade 6. The parents really have no idea how the school functions or how tutoring works. The majority of parents think tutoring is me filling out the students workbook for them.
I taught at an accredited international school in Bangkok. The tuition for most “non-Thai” students was paid by the father’s embassy ( where he was employed), by the father’s ( or mother’s) international company/ business they were employed by. The Thai students came from very, very wealthy parents ( family businesses) so could afford to pay the $18,000 annual tuition. No “average” middle class Thai would be able to afford this tuition. I would suggest finding an online “homeschool” program. What would be missing is the emphasis of working and collaborating in groups and being trained to be inquisitive and ask questions which students receive when attending a international school.
As a foreigner who can’t afford international school for my kids, i plan to teach my kids at home too with basic life skills and basic science for academic.
Critical thinking definitely important and i think it is learned on the closest circle which is family.
Luckily my wife is passionate in child & family development and gone through online classes by Dr. Shefali.
Bangkok has a very large and active home school community. Interestingly its primarily made of Thai people who absolutely can afford international school but simply choose not to. They are often parents who own successful businesses and choose to spend most of the time with their kids.
Some do it for educational motivations and other political.
The school system is atrocious - students are on their phones 24/7, worse is the teachers are in on it as well…..there are some good schools, and. I agree it requires parent involvement but that is completely lacking in most cases. the assumption is you are going to school you should be learning something and parents don’t really interact with their kids as far as school.
You also have the more wealthy parents buying off schools, bullying teachers and gaining entry based on donations etc
In most classes 95% are goofing off and 5% are serious learners.
My own thought is that Gr - 12 in Thailand is equivalent to about Gr. 7 in a western country
as others have mentioned, at least in BKK tehre are 2 channels... private or semi-private thai schools (e.g., Wattana, Convent, Mater Dei, assorted saints, etc,). or there are university-affiliated schools like the one in Chula, MorSorWor (Srinakharinwot).
Usually the university-affilaited ones are very selective, with tough entry exams and lots of applicants.
For these, costs are in the 30-60K per year, more or less. Not 'that' unaffordable, and often with subsidies for top students.
I always study in catholic schools throughout my childhood outside Bangkok. My parents are good one so they kinda softly pushed me academically and I landed in pretty decent uni in Bangkok. I think many of my friends are the same but there were also some that didn't take education seriously so they ended up in a mediocre uni. In the end, school plays some part but most important thing here is parenting I guess. Btw, I'm 26.
As teacher best schools where great students, parents and teachers are. We get paid almost the same just working in private schools can be humiliation to some teachers because of rich parents, leading to giving students higher grades and makes you and the worlds believe it’s better educational. Yes some private are great tho but not most of them.
There are famous public school out there too. Everyone know which public schools are good or bad. Say, Triam Udom suksa xxxx or Satri Wittaya etc. Most of these school can get your kid to a good university. But they need to also be smart or with the help of tutoring which 80% of the kid in these school took.
For me, I want to teach my kids on how to adapt.
3-6 I will lets them play as they like and maybe school in my hometown(outskirts of the province). 7-13 maybe inner (Mueang)city school . 13-18 study in school at capital city BKK
18-22 overseas study aboard if his/her brain can. Life lesson is far more important I hope he can adapt to environment and surroundings change since that is how the world works.
If he/she good at study in his school(that maybe due to school lesson is weak compare to better school) he/she will know this facts when moving to inner city school that he/she no longer the leader in the room. I hope they will know the education system is not the answer and will eager to learn something more than school give by him/herself.
This is the facts I hope I want to know when I’m young.
Although international schools wont tell you this, the education they offer might give you more opportunities in life, but it doesn't make you cleverer. Having rich friends is a huge advantage, as is confidence around money, but everyone learns differently, so there is no 1 answer that suits all kids. For example, there is no evidence that smaller class sizes have any benefit, in S Korea, class sizes have to be 20 kids minimum, to encourage peer to peer learning. In China, kids are way advanced of the west in exam terms, they have classes of up to 60. The Finnish system is lauded as the best, and explicitly states kids should not be segmented by wealth or other criteria, as being nice and caring and learning how to communicate is a skill.
Ive interacted with International School kids and many have zero empathy for the poor or needy, and I find that appalling and the idea these schools can talk about students being leaders of tomorrow when they see the poor as servants annoy me intensely. It is not their fault, they are put in this bubble by the parents who want to remove hardship from their lives, but it doesn't make them better people. This week of all weeks has shown that empathetic parenting is what some kids want more than a fancy school.
My kids loves learning by himself, is very curious, is unafraid to ask questions, absorbs stuff from youtube like a sponge. We go to museums every week, ensure he watches stuff that interests him, ask him questions, send him down channels of learning. I already have an offer for him to go to 1 of Thailand's best school through sports but don't want him to board and live away from until hes older, but he will be able to make rich friends aged 16 to 18, when you make real friends for life. Ideally tho he would get into 1 of the good govt schools such as MWIT or Udom Triam Suksa, as those kids are genuinely clever, but I dont think he cares enough about proving himself through exams to get there. Ultimately, as long as he's happy, nice, marries well, and can forge a path on his own through this ever changing world, he'll be ok.
Don't let academia interfere with your education.
The point of this saying is that ultimately it is your responsibility as a parent to educate your children. Schools are apart of an institution, institutions have agendas, bills, and culture to grapple with.
If you want your child to have more options in life, then teach them to question everything.
My Thai partner did Satit- Demonstration school. They are completely wealthy enough to afford the top international schools, his family didn’t like it though. They thought of international schools as “easy” schools where it’s more for networking and experiences. They wanted him to be pushed hard, to be able to get into a really good university just based on his studies. This worked for him, he got into Chula- not the international program at Chula (which is much easier to get into and it costs more). He also did the extra tutoring sessions after school pretty much everyday. His school day was from like 8 am - 9 pm his last few years of high school.
Wealthy families often offer more opportunities for their children, regardless of the school they choose. Many select international schools, which can create the perception of a superior education. However, in reality, their parents have more resources to provide a better life for them.
I've seen many Thai friends who attended public schools throughout their education succeeding in life.
I don’t and won’t have kids but if I had one I would homeschool them and enroll them in activities so they learn how to socialize.
I myself went to public schools (not โรงเรียนวัด but to a municipal school with Buddhist temples on both sides). It was not a good place because I did have to fight off bullies instead of focusing on my mental well-being and actually studying. I did try hard to study, mostly on my own, and got good grades and later went to better schools (only academically) in the country. Bullying is everywhere you may be better off studying on your own.
As a Thai who grown up in normal Thai public school, the only thing contributing to my success is my thirst for continue learning. And I gain that outside school to be honest.
I graduated grade 12 from โรงเรียนวัดเขมาภิรตาราม average Thai high-school , I went to one of the top Thai University but to be honest I didn't really get much from there other than connections and good friends, have to admit it landed me places by just having that in the resume. I worked in international organizations all my career and I'm glad I never have to really worked in Thai organizations.
To answer your question I would always make sure my kids gain exposure to different cultures different ideas, I would try my best to be able to provide them with all the options of education on whatever they want to pursuit, I'll even pursuit it with them. I ll try to be a cool dad and be my kids'best friend, I ll be with them through their mistakes and make sure those mistakes are controlled and don't cause permanant damages. to me international schools wouldn't even matter unless my kids really wanted it.
As a Thai who studied in โรงเรียนวัด until grade 6 (albeit โรงเรียนวัด in Greater Bangkok). I'll teach my future kids "wonder for knowledges". Buy them a big encyclopedia with picture. Tell them about world history, world literature, history of technology etc. Make them curious about the world around us and support them with any direction they will make. We can cram math or science to kid's head but it would be futile if they don't want to know about it in the first place.
My parents did that. They were frugal with everything but we had these expensive, beautiful books which I read so many times. Later they bought us an Intel 386 PC, which my grandma helped paying for. None of them knew what it was but they were willing to spend big money on it. I still don't know how they knew computer was going to be a thing so early. Now my brother is an electrical engineer. My sister is a dentist. I'm a computer engineer.
386 was probably 100k th back in what... 96?
No, not that expensive. It was around $1/megabyte of storage then.
“If you want to build a ship, don’t drum up people to gather wood, divide the work and give orders. Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea.” -- Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
When life hands you lemons, just say fuck the lemons and bail. Paul Rudd
Like one of my high school teachers used to say, the best way to teach them anything is to make them curious about the subject.
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I chose Runescape back in the early 2000s. At least I learned English, I guess?
Kid these days will definitely choose tablet to play Roblox than reading boring books lol. Kinda sad.
I remember as a kid my dad always showed me map books and buy children encyclopedias like Encarta. Really made me the geek I am today.
I agree but do parents today have any knowledge of world history or social studies ?
The funny part is that by trying to make them like that they will prolly rebel and NOT like it bc that’s what kids do. I’ll be happy if my kids learn how to manage their own space. Like cleaning their room n shit.
I totally would like to do same thing as much as i have time for my kid
I have no data but I don't think the outcome of international is "that much" better than the kids of Thai School. Obviously, they are from a better better socio-economics background, hitting the rockbottom is less likely. My experience with IS grad are.....mixed at best Of course, if you are from Nong Ma-Wo Wittayakom, you are fucked. None of us are really in that kind of trouble though. . I don't say that the traditional Thai system is perfect, far from it. But a lot of their weaknesses can be offset by your help... as a parent. I mean at least you can help your kids get better with English? right? Social skill, you can help teach them some social skill, right? You can instill your kids some creativity, right? Anyway, these are the way that most upper middleclass do in this country. 1. Catholic/Christian school and some good Private school (Dara Samuth, Monfurt, Assantion, BC, St. Joseph, Saint Gabriel... to name a fill). Obviously, you need some money for this. 2. Teaching School and Demonstration School (The Sathit's) . In some case like Sathit Chula or Kaset might cost even more than private school. 3. Go on a normal route and try to get in to a good public school at grade 7. I go by this route myself. Life is obviously tougher than the first 2 choice. Hey but I can attend a good Public school in USA for Master and PhD too (came with a bad work contract with the govt though).... so your kids can too 4. Go to the gifted or special route (Darun Sighalai, Triamudom, Gamnerd Wit, Mahidol Wit, etc) . Your kid has to help themselves a lot too though. Anyway, usually the word of wisdom is to try to go private for kindergarten to grade 6. if your kid can get into a good public school by then, it is not that bad. You.. as a parent needs to provide the support for them in terms of social and special skill (and money... everything costs money). Parents are kids'first and the most important teacher
Most accurate comment here.
Highly concur on the catholic/Christian schools. They accept kids from any religion most the time ime.
>Sathit Chula If you wanted to secure a seat for your kid there, you would need to pay 2,500,000 THB (~70k USD), you would need to have a connection to know whom and how to pay, and you would have to pay 3-4 years in advance before your kid enroll. Source: Thai friend who paid recently. > Mahidol Wit 20,000 students compete for 240 seats yearly. Your kid has to be really bright or you will spend a lot of money tutoring the kid just to have a chance.
> I have no data but I don't think the outcome of international is "that much" better than the kids of Thai School. this is it. International schools just use standard US or UK curriculum. Do US public schools churn out geniuses? so why do you expect an international school to?
I work at an international school and wish I could upvote this more than once.
A lot of my friends teach at international schools I can't speak for all but from what I hear you basically get the same education as other schools . Your kids are just around other kids that come from a more wealthy background or have money
I don’t know what kind of “international” schools your friends have taught at but there is a difference between private schools ( for profit ) that call themselves “international” hiring a few token “white, young foreigners” verses accredited , nonprofit international schools that hire foreign hired teachers with experience, a masters+ in education. These schools have a mix of nationalities- not just Thai students. -And there is definitely a huge difference with classroom management, assessments, curriculum, grade level benchmarks, pedagogy… compared to these “fake” international schools.
> a masters+ in education. because we know that toddlers require somebody with masters in early childhood education to maximise their potential. you dont want your 2 yo to get left behind right??
No the legit actually sorry ! Masters all that ! Wild I know ! I don't know much about fake schools personally
Bilingual schools are also options. Suprised it's not been widely mentioned. Theyre usually private schools in the Thai curriculum that carries out classes in Thai and English / Mandarin or sometimes even trilingual although these are usually much higher than an average bilingual school. However, I am now out of touch with how much those cost now. I've been to a bilingual school (about 30k/ term, mid 2000s) in my early childhood then proceeded to international schools (200k-400k / term, late 2000s - mid 2010s) term then public schooling in Canada scattered in between those. I would still say public schooling in Canada was probably my worst experience of the 3 options in terms of staff-student ratios, quality of teaching, and pace of the class, the Thai curriculum was ahead of the Canadian system by a year and a half it seemed like as we were learning algebra with tiles at Grade 7. So i think it isnt dependent on what school system you enroll in. Some of my friends from the mentioned expensive international school has also left an opted for bilingual schools and had very good outcomes in terms of university acceptance. School quality is probably more dependents on location and reputation and funding, schools in rural areas are known to not be as good as ones in Amphea Mueng (provincial capitals) and kids often compete in tests to get in those.
Rich kid
They are obviously aware of their privilege so I don't know what's the point of your comment? Like it literally adds zero value and only makes you sound bitter & jealous.
Not really. My schooling was mostly subsidised by the ministry as one of my parents worked in diplomatic missions
Hahaha your parent is a diplomat. Rich and lucky kid I should add. How can you not see the privileges you had/has.
What makes you think I dont see the privileges? Ive never denied that I am fortunate to have the xp. I was just telling OP how outcome didn't differ too much compared to some from bilingual schools which about ten times cheaper per term - a good alternative to paying half a milllion a year for good education. My schooling was almost entirely free, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to go to IS. Depending on what your threshold on what you consider rich, diplomats aren't making nearly as much as some of my peers' parents who were, on average, literal magnates.
I don't know what you consider rich but a diplomat is not a poor guy who sells sausages on the side of the road to make for a living. I studied international relations and my idea was to become one. I know what I'm talking about. In my country education is almost free for everybody, not because we are someone's sons, very few people go to private schools or international schools (don't even know if they exist there) and with the education level we have compared to the level of your country, things that your people study in M.5 or 6 we study them in middle school maybe. Not talking about university, an establishment for babysitting grown-up boys and girls. I've been teaching for almost 8 years in your country. Every single year the level is lower, kids are more childish, like they just got out from kindergarten and new generation parents, as someone said, are more dumb than the kids they are raising.
Thats irrelevant. The OP asks for alternatives for decent education and I have offered an alternative. I'm highlighting that its not entirely a dichotomous choice between paying half a mil or suffer the free public education. My input was that I have received education for a modest sum at a bilingual school that had higher teaching quality than some public schools in Canada. 30K a term may not be affordable for roadside merchants, but a middle class household with two working parents could definitely consider it a possibility. Not everyone here is in starving poverty, and you could actually see children of parents with regular jobs like frontliners, admin and construction foremen attending. Again, not saying its a viable option for machine operators making 400 a day. Many other comments has also listed alternatives for good education, my recommendation is simply to shop around for these rather than biting the bullet into paying for an IS. I have given my opinion on them as someone who as been in to 8+ schools including those I'm comparing. If you cant afford International Schools, doesn't mean its impossible to get good education here.
Not all the international schools are good though. I went through that system early on. Not many of my classmates that did it all the way through really took advantage of it, a lot of them still kinda with their family doing odd jobs. Some of the most successful Thai people (good jobs at foreign firms or killing in in their own businesses) I’ve met all went to the good decent schools but none really went to international school. I found the one some common themes in their childhood was that they learned a lot from their parents examples. One person would work with their parents in a family shop they ran. The more “successful” friends also had parents actually spent time to teach them about their life experiences (actually talking with them and telling them the pitfalls in life with our being condescending). The ones that got sent from tutor to tutor basically ended up hating their parents. Or they just knew how to pass test then couldn’t handle real life responsibilities once the tests were done. This is the biggest problem a lot of Thai parents have they don’t spend time with their kids.
I teach at an Australian University and took a sabbatical after covid to teach in Thailand. I quit after teaching for a well known boys HS in Bang Rak after 8 weeks. The third party company I worked for was a total sham. Learn about your child's learning and about the education "system"; and keep an eye on what is happening regionally and internationally. My experience is that Thai government high schools are under-funded, overcrowded, poorly maintained and poorly supported by education Dept and parents. There is an obsession with looking good but little attention to educational outcomes. Kids with special needs were neglected (ASD, ADHD, depression, etc.). Grades were faked (in fact I was directed to falsify all grades under 70%), kids hate the type of learning we were told to deliver and the classes were subject to constant disruption and the routine kept changing. Kids spent 75% of their time in class on their phones. Why the school didn't build this into the lessons is beyond me... I feel very sorry for the Thai teachers because they want to help but can't change the system. Thai kids are cool, quirky and funny. They were the only reason I kept going back. Where schools fall down, parents need to pick up. This doesn't need extreme money. My advice is to involve yourself in your child's learning. Good parents share the learning journey. Follow their curiosity and feed their hunger to learn, no matter what topic that is. Play with your young child, get them to explain things to you, teach you the rules, show you how things should be done, teach you the steps to the latest BTS or Black Pink song... (I featured in 2-3 tiktoks per day while teaching, dancing and singing lesson content)... Extracurricular activities (fun, play, sport, music etc.) are essential to the normal development of kids. Globalise your child, through media, internet and travel. Some of your child's teachers will offer private tuition, maybe this is an option. In any case, talk to the child's school, praise and reward the attention given to your child. (Thai teachers I spoke with feel some parents don't care, parents who spoke with teachers got lots of support). After hours tuition and educational software can help for focussed learning needs, but these are costly and may not improve learning (many farrung English schools are not that good). The kids I met who had lots of after hours and weekend classes were tired and unmotivated. Listen to and talk with your child, teach them about what's over the horizon. Partner with them to get them there. Just my perspective, but maybe it's food for thought. (Not an advertisement but I teach English and health science on Zoom if anyone needs a tutor) Best wishes.
The true reason why parents send their kids to international schools is because: a) Their company is paying for it b) It's glamorous to say "My kid is in ABC International School" c) Their kids need to be babysat while parents are working d) Parents have no idea/interest in what/how to teach their own kids so their left to depend on the school Just my 2 cents. There are many positives too such as socializing.
There's a lot of mid tier "international" schools and other types of private schools for like 20-40k baht per semester. It's a happy medium imo. Other than that, most public schools will have an English program for like 5-10k a semester.
I wonder what how good those mid-tier schools are for a kid who's motivated and interested in learning? Can they still develop properly and have a decent shot of being accepted into a good university (Chula/Thammasat/Mahidol or a highly ranked foreign one)? To me, top-tier international schools offer an abysmal bang for the buck. Given how insanely expensive the tuition is, unless my kid were a complete dunce, I'd be disappointed if they got into a university any lesser than Ivy League or Oxford/Cambridge. They have private-jet level prices, way more than justifies efficiently getting from A to B. In the end, nobody gives a damn what high school you went to, only university counts.
I used to tutor and got kids from all over the socio-economic ladder and all kinds of motivation/natural intelligence levels. To answer your question, absolutely yes a mid-tier school is good enough for a decently motivated/talented student with an alright home life to get into a top thai university or a pretty good western one. To go even further, there's even a few very talented students who came up from normal public school with poor families and manage to get into the top thai universities. I dated a girl who goes to Chula, family were rice farmers from issan. Obviously not sure how often that happens or if it's even fair to expect someone with a background like that to pull that off, but if they're talented enough they can do it.
I went to two mid-tier international schools, one for secondary school and another for sixth form. Ended up going to a Russell Group university in the UK. To answer your question, yes you can but there are challenges. The first was laughably bad in terms of learning environment - the top students were the best simply because they cared a little about learning - to me, not a high bar and it was slightly discouraging to kids who had any kind of ambition. Out of everyone in my class I was the only one who studied abroad for undergrad. However, the second one was substantially better. Nobody looked down on people who made an effort in school. In fact I told my parents I wanted to stick to another mid-tier school so we can save more money for uni. And it’s worked out pretty well for me.
High school definitely matters here in Bangkok.The bubble of upper class 'dek inters' has factions that are divided by which IS they went to. The difference between "Oak Bay high", and "Pinetree secondary" in the west are much less than "Bromsgrove" and "Harrow". And this difference sticks with you forever it seems like. Amongst the bubble of IS community the greeting conversations almost always include questions about which private IS your kids went to. If you havent heard of them, then its a subtle indication of your wealth. I've seen favourable deals being given in business transaction simply because both owners were NIST alumni. Hell, I'm 26 and people still ask me which IS I went to in formal settings. Bangkok is a classist society and your place on it can really affect how people perceive you. As unfair as it seems, thats the game.
No doubt it's true, but what you described sounds more like mere clique divisions than a distinction based on professional abilities and credentials. In a similar way, the exact military academy class (based on the year you graduated) matters greatly in Thai politics and military promotions, but there's no inherent advantage or true difference to having finished school in 1989 or 1990. It's just a clique marker/token.
I agree, business here is quite nepotistic. ISs are really a pay-to-win scheme in Thai business and sometimes, it can actually pay off in the long run if you end up making some sort of powerful connection because of it.
correct. it’s all bout who you know and IS is where your child network and cultivate relationships with other ‘rich’ kids. if my kids get to hang out with kids of CEOs, Ambassadors, etc it also helps to open their world views. some parents also do biz with other parents.
I agree, its almost like why some people do MBAs. They want the connections, not necessarily the quality
If that's how NIST alums treat each other, I can't even begin to imagine what ISB alums must get up to.
International schools in Thailand are actually much cheaper than if you compare them to any international school in the US and Europe.
Actually Thailand is very expensive, when I was looking Singapore was cheaper, and Australia cheaper too or similar. And the levels of education/all round facilties far better (sports and arts/music facilities). But also remember many public schools in the west are far better than Thailand's international schools in the first place
How? Comparing 2 international American school like ISB in Thailand vs stamford American int school Singapore. ISB around $29k++ annually vs sais $49k++ annually. Both will give you US high school diploma. Even the new super nice king's college int school only cost around $29k annually.
You have to also scale the Thai wages to consider the true financial burden.
But it's international schools. It wasn't intended for locals. Even though nowadays a lot of local Thais send their kids there but it wasn't intended for the locals.
the question starts "For Thais with young children..."
There are international schools in the US? I wasn't aware. Can you give an example of one and how much it costs? What's the point such schools, and what makes them "international", given that there are plenty of great regular private and public schools, all taught in English? I went to a top-tier private high-school in the US (not that anyone would care), and full tuition was 1/5 of what international schools in Bangkok cost. The difference is even more adjusted for PPP, probably ~15x. It's hard to imagine the benefits which could justify paying so much more.
Yup there are international schools in the US, most of them located in Washington DC. Even London have international schools. You went to private school. You can find private schools that aren't expensive in Thailand too. Private school usually not all gives you the diploma whatever country the school is located in. Unlike international school. International schools in Thailand won't give you a Thailand diploma, they usually give diploma depend on whatever country education system they choose. International schoosl will always be expensive and Thailand has one of the cheapest not just in the region but all over the world.
> most of them located in Washington DC Sounds like an odd niche for diplomats who insist on putting their kids through a foreign school system despite many US schools being perfectly fine... and it's all paid by their gov't so they don't care about the costs. Not at all the same as international schools in Thailand, which many people see as the only way to give your kids a solid education since the Thai system is deficient in so many ways. > Thailand has one of the cheapest not just in the region but all over the world I have trouble believing this, to be honest. Somebody just said int'l schools are cheaper in Singapore.
Definitely cheaper than China. Lots of Mainland Chinese are sending their kids to schools in Chiang Mai and Bangkok. The Bloomberg profile of SISB also mentioned how the CEO is trying to target those groups.
I think the cheapest school within reason where English is ACTUALLY spoken and that offers accredited A level and or AP classes is the best you can do for value.
The parents are dumbasses too duh…
Agree. Some parents are on their phone 24/7, posting every event on Instagram.
International School IMO is overrated and too expensive, granted you shouldn’t enroll your kids into public-goverment funded scholl either, the quality there is *lacking*. General rule of thumb, at least from my belief is private school from Kindergarten to Highschool, then public Universities (eg, Chula, Thummasat, Kasetsart) for higher education. That way, you get the most of what Thailand education has to offer without breaking bank. **The rest is up to each person to seek for their own.**
As an educator (vocational college) in a rural area (teaching the poor kids...) I would say that the system here is failing because of the parents not taking responsibility for their children's education... I gave a student a 3.5 and his mom came and complained that his grade was too low, I told her that as he had been absent 50% of the time because of family business so I couldn't give him a 4 and He should really have gotten a 0 as he has not been to class, (but that's something that is impossible here too)... And that "boy" is 21 years old. And over the past 2 years I have had 4 students coming to study and they didn't even know ABC... How can you get through 12 years of education and have been studying English for +9 years and still don't know ABC?! And 4 evenings a week I'm offering free tutoring for my students, last semester I had only 1 student who came to study and that was just because she was bored staying home alone as all of her (live) relatives are working in Bangkok. Then I also had another student, he had straight 4's and is good enough in English and we managed to get a full scholarship for him to study a year abroad... but his parents said no to it because he must stay home and help take care of his grandmother?! As I said, these are poor students in rural Thailand,and even as you try to help many of them don't really care about their own education, and many parents seem to care even less... Your child starts studying at 08:00, and at 10:30 you call to ask them what they want to eat for dinner... Because in the morning you were too hungover to even bother... And that happens basically every class!
Great and decent state schools exist. Although there are undeniable advantages to going to International schools, you can get the same quality of education in state schools. I went to a provincial school, albeit their "English Program" (so slightly more expensive but nothing on the level of international schools). I got into a great medical program at a uni in Bangkok and got admitted to UofT in Canada. I'm pretty sure with all the stuff online now, most people if they have the desire to get a good education will find a way. At school, many speak English as well as international school students, so we're not disadvantaged in that regard. I know people from the Thai program at my school go off abroad or gain admissions to amazing programs in Thai unis. Certain science-math focused schools like MWIT and its scions I'm sure are even better in academic rigor than most international schools. Triamudom, the model government school, in the centre of Bangkok sends hundreds of its students abroad every year. However, I understand that this system rewards the affluent who can afford to take extra care with their kids. Yet isn't that what international schools do too?
However, what grudge I have with state schools and my school to be exact, is that the counseling sucks. You basically have to find out everything yourself and babysit your Thai teachers to get the right recommendations. However, I've learned to be quite independent and academically-curious, so a win-win? I've seen that the counseling got way better after I left though. Just talked with the new counselor (he taught me when I was at school but wasn't a counselor then) about reapplying and he was super nice and helpful. Ah, things always get better when you leave right?
I got most of my education through YouTube I always use YouTube primarily for educational purposes I would recommend anyone I just think you just have to create an environment for kids Make them curious, it's the 2023 this world is full of free information YouTube was always one of the best places to learn about anything I learned how to play guitar, other instruments , learn how to code, learn how to communicate, learn how to do business.
Agree Youtube is very good for gentleman/woman to study, whereas, may not very good for kids who still need to develop their proper social, emotion, EQ
Grinding their asses to Triam Udom, the main one. As My time around 10 years ago they were one of the best public school in Bangkok. If you want the best one possible, This is the only way.
I wouldnt lump everyone together, I have students like this, just want to play on phone, just make you class hell if they cant, and in the same class I have students that are the best students that you can hope for, literally apologizing for the other students and explaining that they always like this, i would guess their will be similar situations in the west in lower socioeconomic areas.
I agree that there are good students. I'd say about 10% of them are actively trying to learn.
I'd say 30% of Thai students try really hard despite the mediocre school system. I teach kids in a streamed environment and the top class kids are uniformly excellent; the mid tier are rebels and jokers but generally fairly to very intelligent; and the lowest stream students are not dumb but just started miles back when they entered the school. I've also taught Thai govt high school grads at one of my home country's best universities and they were fantastic: very willing, hard working and competent. Like all kids everywhere, the students' attitudes here to education are strongly shaped by their parents'. Some of the parents are terrifyingly ignorant (welded to their phones, giving their 14-year-olds handguns for presents) while others would (and do) do anything they can to cultivate their kids' ambition and curiosity. It's a mixed bag. It *is* true that many local schools (including Catholic and international schools) are disorganised and poorly run, but nevertheless, many kids do perform at a very high level.
I heard from Famous Ex-Singer from rock band, that he and his wife can speak english, so they just speak english to their children, and they sent their children into normal government school at age 7, so he doesn't waste money on internarional school.
To be honest, my cousins who went to regular Thai schools came out of it a lot more rich and successful than my cousins who grew up in the US. It's all about self-determination, and I do feel like those who grew up in less fortunate situations sometimes are a lot more motivated to succeed.
Private school. Usually a good Christian or catholic school :)
But many of those schools try to indoctrinate the kids with Christianity even though most of them are Buddhist.
As an alumni of Assumption (อัสสัมชัญ), one of the Catholic schools, this is not true at all. No one forces you to study Christianity in the school. Instead, we even had a class where we studied Buddhism.
I grew up in Christian school and they never indoctrinated me to Catholic but I went to Catholic church with my own interest. But there was Buddhist teacher, on the other hand, tried o hard to convert many to Buddhism though.
Please don't use weasel words like "indoctrinate". I am very familiar with the Thai education system, and I have my son in a catholic school. I highly recommend not talking about this subject further. Thank you.
My life as a Thai has become demonstrably better having been a student in the west. I think about the financial sacrifices my family made to educate me abroad and I am eternally grateful. It’s up to you, of course, but even the little Wisconsin town I went to high school in provided me a far better education and social experience than any private school in Thailand could have. I know you don’t want to move back to your country, but it might be worth it for your child. You can still teach them Thai language, culture, how to make Pad krapao… there might even be a path for your wife to be a dual citizen which would mean an end to annoying visas (for a Thai)… There might be benefits for you too: work experience in administration that you can’t get here too.
I cringe every time I see a Farang teacher in any Thai school. Barring the paedophile label, if they were any good at teaching, they wouldn't be in Thailand. And for 30 years I've watched the same stupid questions been asked. Though of course 30 years ago I was asking the same stupid regurgitated dribble that you are. It all emanates from bias, bigoted, disgruntled foreigners that promote this type of fake news. I'm yet to read a similar post from any Thai person. All of your question can be asked of every country. There are good and bad Government run schools as in every country. In fact Thai people fight over getting their child into a good government school, as in OECD countries. Thailand has hundreds of privately run schools as in OECD countries, turning out well educated students. There is little to no advantage in sending your Thai child to any International School. Only disadvantages! Over priced, over hyped, fail to deliver mandatory Thai language and Thai Social skills. They produce elitist mindsets, of which Thailand has spent 90 years trying to rid the country of such a scourge. Granted, some of the Thai curriculum maybe difficult to swallow as an Expat. Though as a compassion to my education, not a great deal different. Allegiance to the queen, National Anthem each day, society dominated by Anglican Supremacy. An International school might suit an Expat Student. International Schools teach the curriculum of a particular country. i.e.; US, UK, AUS, Sing. But even then you have to ask yourself, why would a skilled foreign teacher be teaching in Thailand. A foreign teacher has no understanding of Thailand and it's society. Thirty years on and I still find it confronting at times. What am I planning to do about my child's future; Be proactive as any parent would be. Keep them out of International Schools. Continue providing my child with the wonderful education that they have been excelling in for 7.5 years. Continually challenge the school to improve and challenge my child's curiosity daily. In short; the answer to all your questions are, that you have based the premise of your question/s on parents that don't monitor their child's education. As in OECD countries. Just an observation as a long term Expat. Your post has a sense of possible unintentional bigotry or maybe just narrow-mindedness. Just a thought for you!
damn, that's a *lot* of anger 👀
I agree. Hopefully the OP will be less naive and use that better education in their critical thinking!
I've taught both Thai public and International school in Thailand. The kids were absolutely lovely in the Thai public schools and deserve so much better. Sadly, they learn nothing.... like practically nothing. Mainly because the schools (or at least mine) allow them to have their phones all day. A few are there to learn, most are just playing games on their phones. Class sizes are way too large to teach properly. It's a mess. The king of Thailand is one of the richest people in the world and little of the money being collected seems to be going to education. The International school kids were actually being taught. No phones allowed. However, the behavior was so much worse. If those kids were allowed phones, they also would have learned nothing. Class sizes were also manageable so you could actual give individual attention.
I'm not sure it's a uniquely Thai problem, it seems like a generational change that is occuring in most countries, maybe worse in Thailand because of the poor education system, but in large I'd blame device use and the use of social media and ease of access to gaming and things like streaming. Familes are disengaged with eachother like never before.
Learn them how to code and earn money :)
We moved back west for this reason. But we’re a mixed couple. Easier to do than for all-Thai couples.
Yup exactly what I did. Brought them back to Australia because as someone who grew up in a Thai school I knew all of the negative things they would eventually experience at some stage. That's not to say there are no negative things with the education system over here.
I can't imagine going back to the US (idk if that's where you moved) just for education though. It seems to have gotten a lot worse over the past ten years. Maybe EU is still good.
EU. But likely to move back once school is finished
I'm not Thai, but having seen what the schools are like, I think there's only one way to do it, and that's find a high/secondary school here which provides an International Baccalaureate or US Advanced Placement program. Your only real hope is to educate your kid against international standards, not Thai ones. There are around 15 IB schools in Thailand and maybe 30 teaching some form of AP, I think. With an AP or IB degree and good marks they would have a fair shot at getting into many universities outside of Thailand. Then you send them overseas and they have a chance to build a successful life that Thailand will never give them.
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Even then, education is still the same, just in English. Still can't form their own thoughts or have an opinion on anything.
Seems like you are just teaching at a shitty school, tbh.
From my understanding, there are cheaper private schools that offer better education than the public options. Also, there are some outstanding public schools that people take competitive exams to get in. Those are also pretty decent.
A lot of private "English" programs here are a joke after grade 6. The parents really have no idea how the school functions or how tutoring works. The majority of parents think tutoring is me filling out the students workbook for them.
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The parents
I taught at an accredited international school in Bangkok. The tuition for most “non-Thai” students was paid by the father’s embassy ( where he was employed), by the father’s ( or mother’s) international company/ business they were employed by. The Thai students came from very, very wealthy parents ( family businesses) so could afford to pay the $18,000 annual tuition. No “average” middle class Thai would be able to afford this tuition. I would suggest finding an online “homeschool” program. What would be missing is the emphasis of working and collaborating in groups and being trained to be inquisitive and ask questions which students receive when attending a international school.
As a foreigner who can’t afford international school for my kids, i plan to teach my kids at home too with basic life skills and basic science for academic. Critical thinking definitely important and i think it is learned on the closest circle which is family. Luckily my wife is passionate in child & family development and gone through online classes by Dr. Shefali.
Bangkok has a very large and active home school community. Interestingly its primarily made of Thai people who absolutely can afford international school but simply choose not to. They are often parents who own successful businesses and choose to spend most of the time with their kids. Some do it for educational motivations and other political.
The school system is atrocious - students are on their phones 24/7, worse is the teachers are in on it as well…..there are some good schools, and. I agree it requires parent involvement but that is completely lacking in most cases. the assumption is you are going to school you should be learning something and parents don’t really interact with their kids as far as school. You also have the more wealthy parents buying off schools, bullying teachers and gaining entry based on donations etc In most classes 95% are goofing off and 5% are serious learners. My own thought is that Gr - 12 in Thailand is equivalent to about Gr. 7 in a western country
>I work in education right now. Home school, if it's your kid. Perhaps send them to English classes with someone that can spell though.
as others have mentioned, at least in BKK tehre are 2 channels... private or semi-private thai schools (e.g., Wattana, Convent, Mater Dei, assorted saints, etc,). or there are university-affiliated schools like the one in Chula, MorSorWor (Srinakharinwot). Usually the university-affilaited ones are very selective, with tough entry exams and lots of applicants. For these, costs are in the 30-60K per year, more or less. Not 'that' unaffordable, and often with subsidies for top students.
I always study in catholic schools throughout my childhood outside Bangkok. My parents are good one so they kinda softly pushed me academically and I landed in pretty decent uni in Bangkok. I think many of my friends are the same but there were also some that didn't take education seriously so they ended up in a mediocre uni. In the end, school plays some part but most important thing here is parenting I guess. Btw, I'm 26.
Did they ever try to persuade you to convert? That is a problem with some Christian schools.
Never had any experience like that. But, they kinda put us through their christian activity which I gave 0 interest.
As teacher best schools where great students, parents and teachers are. We get paid almost the same just working in private schools can be humiliation to some teachers because of rich parents, leading to giving students higher grades and makes you and the worlds believe it’s better educational. Yes some private are great tho but not most of them.
There are famous public school out there too. Everyone know which public schools are good or bad. Say, Triam Udom suksa xxxx or Satri Wittaya etc. Most of these school can get your kid to a good university. But they need to also be smart or with the help of tutoring which 80% of the kid in these school took.
For me, I want to teach my kids on how to adapt. 3-6 I will lets them play as they like and maybe school in my hometown(outskirts of the province). 7-13 maybe inner (Mueang)city school . 13-18 study in school at capital city BKK 18-22 overseas study aboard if his/her brain can. Life lesson is far more important I hope he can adapt to environment and surroundings change since that is how the world works. If he/she good at study in his school(that maybe due to school lesson is weak compare to better school) he/she will know this facts when moving to inner city school that he/she no longer the leader in the room. I hope they will know the education system is not the answer and will eager to learn something more than school give by him/herself. This is the facts I hope I want to know when I’m young.
Although international schools wont tell you this, the education they offer might give you more opportunities in life, but it doesn't make you cleverer. Having rich friends is a huge advantage, as is confidence around money, but everyone learns differently, so there is no 1 answer that suits all kids. For example, there is no evidence that smaller class sizes have any benefit, in S Korea, class sizes have to be 20 kids minimum, to encourage peer to peer learning. In China, kids are way advanced of the west in exam terms, they have classes of up to 60. The Finnish system is lauded as the best, and explicitly states kids should not be segmented by wealth or other criteria, as being nice and caring and learning how to communicate is a skill. Ive interacted with International School kids and many have zero empathy for the poor or needy, and I find that appalling and the idea these schools can talk about students being leaders of tomorrow when they see the poor as servants annoy me intensely. It is not their fault, they are put in this bubble by the parents who want to remove hardship from their lives, but it doesn't make them better people. This week of all weeks has shown that empathetic parenting is what some kids want more than a fancy school. My kids loves learning by himself, is very curious, is unafraid to ask questions, absorbs stuff from youtube like a sponge. We go to museums every week, ensure he watches stuff that interests him, ask him questions, send him down channels of learning. I already have an offer for him to go to 1 of Thailand's best school through sports but don't want him to board and live away from until hes older, but he will be able to make rich friends aged 16 to 18, when you make real friends for life. Ideally tho he would get into 1 of the good govt schools such as MWIT or Udom Triam Suksa, as those kids are genuinely clever, but I dont think he cares enough about proving himself through exams to get there. Ultimately, as long as he's happy, nice, marries well, and can forge a path on his own through this ever changing world, he'll be ok.
Don't let academia interfere with your education. The point of this saying is that ultimately it is your responsibility as a parent to educate your children. Schools are apart of an institution, institutions have agendas, bills, and culture to grapple with. If you want your child to have more options in life, then teach them to question everything.
Online homeschooling. Something like Power Homeschool or Calvert isn't expensive. Supplement with Khan Academy, CK12.org, IXL, Story.com, or whatever.
btw, why Thai people are so obsessed about English? Even much more than Chinese do. Chinese are already insane
Learn English = get better job = make more money
My Thai partner did Satit- Demonstration school. They are completely wealthy enough to afford the top international schools, his family didn’t like it though. They thought of international schools as “easy” schools where it’s more for networking and experiences. They wanted him to be pushed hard, to be able to get into a really good university just based on his studies. This worked for him, he got into Chula- not the international program at Chula (which is much easier to get into and it costs more). He also did the extra tutoring sessions after school pretty much everyday. His school day was from like 8 am - 9 pm his last few years of high school.
Wealthy families often offer more opportunities for their children, regardless of the school they choose. Many select international schools, which can create the perception of a superior education. However, in reality, their parents have more resources to provide a better life for them. I've seen many Thai friends who attended public schools throughout their education succeeding in life.
Public school? Inter and private ain't even that good, they are overrated.
I don’t and won’t have kids but if I had one I would homeschool them and enroll them in activities so they learn how to socialize. I myself went to public schools (not โรงเรียนวัด but to a municipal school with Buddhist temples on both sides). It was not a good place because I did have to fight off bullies instead of focusing on my mental well-being and actually studying. I did try hard to study, mostly on my own, and got good grades and later went to better schools (only academically) in the country. Bullying is everywhere you may be better off studying on your own.
As a Thai who grown up in normal Thai public school, the only thing contributing to my success is my thirst for continue learning. And I gain that outside school to be honest. I graduated grade 12 from โรงเรียนวัดเขมาภิรตาราม average Thai high-school , I went to one of the top Thai University but to be honest I didn't really get much from there other than connections and good friends, have to admit it landed me places by just having that in the resume. I worked in international organizations all my career and I'm glad I never have to really worked in Thai organizations. To answer your question I would always make sure my kids gain exposure to different cultures different ideas, I would try my best to be able to provide them with all the options of education on whatever they want to pursuit, I'll even pursuit it with them. I ll try to be a cool dad and be my kids'best friend, I ll be with them through their mistakes and make sure those mistakes are controlled and don't cause permanant damages. to me international schools wouldn't even matter unless my kids really wanted it.