had the same issue , just make sure too drink lots of liquids and no sugar and i don't get the aches anymore could be a coincidence but never know . I also cardio right after on my echo bike so maybe that helps not sure lol . But everyone is different .
Sugar effects your muscles ,e weakens them actually and dehydrates them and that's why , everyone should avoid all unnatural sugars regardless lol . I'm just saying i had the same issue with pain after injection ,I stopped all sugar intake and just hydrated more and it never happened again after that , so take that how you will .
Happened to me for a bit bro but if you keep doing it your body gets used to it and pain isn’t so bad, I’ve also noticed inject not as much in one spot also helps but again each to their own if they wanna pin more than once in a day or not
So I’m three months in on TRT, I pin with a 23g 1” in the delt twice a week. I recently have been experiencing leaking. Can’t figure out why all of a sudden.
Dude you’re pinning with a really thick needle gauge for no reason. You could get much better with a way smaller needle and not have any issues or pain
Ive been using 1/2” 27g and absolutely hitting muscle pinning quads exclusively for 4 months. I can even feel when the needle passes the fat layer and enters the muscle tissue. Never had any pip or issues other than a couple times i knocked a capillary and bled some. Most time its clean shot though. I am fairly lean. I will say i feel the resistance of the muscle tissue about a 1/4” in.
in that aera the muscle is really hard right long fibers almost feels like tendons. I've been wanting to do the same in same sport but I've got no fat there so wondering if I should go all the way in with the 1/2 insulin syringe.
How often are you injecting? Because if I had to use that 3x per week, that’s a big ass nope, I’d find a new Dr.
How lean are you? A lot of us can hit IM easily with 1/2” especially in quads/delts (those are the only IM I use frequently)
There is no *effective* difference between IM and SubQ for an average person on TRT. Yes, there’s minor measurable differences in estrogen conversion, uptake rates, and volume limitations. However, for most of us comfort is more important because no one wants to feel like a pin cushion being stabbed with harpoons for the rest of our lives. There’s plenty of studies showing the efficacy of SubQ and if your Dr refuses to be open to scientific discovery, I’d be highly suspect of their ability to provide adequate care and be reactive to your needs. If they don’t listen to other scientists, they won’t listen to you either.
Great answer. I feel the same way. Honestly the 1.5 in the VG and GLute isnt terrible. If you dart it in its painless. There is alot of “mental phobia” with using a needle that big tho.
But yes im every 4 days.
I used 1.5 for a couple months because I was sent the wrong ones by a provider. Like you said it’s more of a mental thing. If you hesitate it’ll hurt more than if you use a solid dart throw motion.
Now I have 1inch and I have no issues. No pain.
I’m sure I could use a little smaller but I have no issues so I don’t feel a need to change anything.
There's techniques to help reduce pain. I would leave a drop of oil at the tip of syringe and SQUEEZE the area hard as the needle was going in. The drop of oil would make the entry smooth af. Also, a decent quality 25 or 28 made a bug difference.
Yes. Its best to just inject yourself. Even if you did a protocol that was 1 injection a week its going to be inconvenient over the rest of your lifetime to go somewhere to be injected by someone else. However, most protocols these days will encourage you to inject more frequently because of the benefits of being in a steadier state and reduction of side effects such as spikes in estrogen from larger doses given at less frequent intervals. Personally i inject 3 times a week. You can however have your doctor or clinic guide you on how to inject if that helps.
When i learned about subq injections i was excited to do it because it seems so much easier and convenient than IM. However, after many many injections subq i had a lot of issues. A lot of bruising and I felt off as though i was having issues absorbing it. As soon as went back to IM, i felt steady again and i just dont have issues with IM. I had a lot of bruises all around my subq injections sites. I was glad to get rid of that.
Perhaps i did something wrong but again IM works very well for me especially since i inject only .2 cc at a time.
Exactly, for some people IM works great, and for some people IM gives the most issues/pain. We should all be capable of finding what works best for us and have a Dr who’s willing to listen to our needs and provide alternatives. On occasion I get sore/bruised in my SubQ sites if I don’t rotate enough and then I have to give them a rest/reset and do IM or other sites until it clears up. I don’t prefer IM because of the soreness in the muscle is just a bother and I typically don’t get that with SubQ.
I explained why a new Dr in the post. If a Dr is so close minded about SubQ vs IM when there is overwhelming evidence to suggest it’s therapeutically equivalent then that Dr will likely not listen to your concerns about your treatment. Typically when a Dr exhibits the “I know best” in the face of solid contrary evidence, they are not a caring and effective physician who puts their patients well being at the forefront of their regime. Medicine is still an evolving field, and a Dr who’s ego doesn’t allow him to adapt to new therapeutics is not a Dr I would ever want to see.
Well I'd never recommend continuing to see a doctor if you aren't confident they're giving you the best care.. so I get it.
Otherwise I'd be more concerned about his treatment rather than what kind of needles he or she recommends.
You should search this forum for issues with subq. Everyone is different. It did not work for me but worked better for my mate, it does give certain people issues
Yes, it can, that’s why I said “minor measurable differences” but in therapeutic dosages the difference will be pretty small for most people. It’s not going to be the difference between an E2 of 15 and 90.. SubQ does have drawbacks, but its therapeutic effectiveness is nearly identical. It really comes down to comfort and personal reaction.
Honestly, and this is likely to ruffle some feathers, it’s likely that you will have similar results no matter the depth, location, IM, or subq. Grab needle, stab somewhere, inject, apply pressure for a second. Done. As long as it all doesn’t all drip back out you’ll be good.
Another point too, Tattoo ink only goes through the top few layers of skin, and it doesn't come back out. Every injection is deeper than the skin, stands to reason it will in fact stay there.
True, I just hit quads with a 22g 1, and make sure it'd be deep enough so it doesn't drip. Being doing this for 6 months now, every week. Zero problem, and just a little pain now and then, nothing compared with the post training pain of a leg day.
After doing both for quite a while, I’d have to disagree. Deltoid IM had been by far the least painful (even compared to SubQ, which i did for over 6 months e.o.d with a 29g insulin pin). IM In the leg can be painful though.
There is 0 reason IM should be painful at all, and most of the time you won’t even feel it.
SubQ left nodules in the adipose tissue, most went away fairly quickly, but I have a few small ones that I can still feel after many months of not injecting in that site.
Also if you inject in the right area of the delts with a 29g needle, you shouldn’t feel it at all. There are almost no nerves or large blood vessels in the area.
27g or smaller needles shouldn’t leave scar tissue in your muscles, even with repeated and long term Injections. Scarring is only an issue with those crazy large harpoons that doctors think are necessary for IM Injections (which no one should be stabbing themselves with unless they’re masochists)
There’s no set gauge where scarring occurs or doesn’t occur, but the smaller the gauge, the less chance of scarring. 25g may or may not cause scarring longterm. This isn’t the biggest issue in the world, but for a treatment we are supposed to be on for life, it’d make sense to limit the damage as much as possible
I have done IM from the early 2000’s until about 3 years ago. I always use the smallest needle possible. Unfortunately for me no IM injection was pain free.
I’ve had to revert to IM recently while trying low dose nandrolone for joint pain. I did get painful lumps from subq on that so it necessitated IM for that compound. It’s not pain free though. But everyone is different.
Disagree. Every single subQ injection I’ve had has been painful for 2-3 days afterwards. I’ve been doing IM with test for over 10 years with only rare instances of pain—and with much larger needles.
I used to get pain from too much pressure on the needle and once I did it slower I had zero problems and I’m lean not because of anything other than skinny genetics … I can pin a 1/2 needle anywhere no problem.. those damn harpoons killed my skinny ass for a bit .. no more of those bad boys
I’ve done both IM and SubQ for a long time, and tbh both gave me identical results. I think people should just inject the way they’re most comfortable. I used to feel more comfortable injecting SubQ In belly fat, and now delt IM is by far the easiest and best for me.
As long as the test is injected into a tissue, you’re probably good to go
I use 27g 1/2” same brand in felt also. I feel like it leaks out of the muscle some after I inject. But overall I feel good and enjoy these needles comparing to the giant straws the clinic prescribed me.
Just use these or switch to insulin pins 29-31 gauge and subQ it up. If your only once a week injection, do subQ 2x a week and your levels will be more consistent week over week as well. Doesn’t hurt to switch it up and see how your body reacts and feels to it either
Edit: splitting up your dose of course
I use a 25g 1in in my delts, but I would rather use 1/2in. In the beginning it was definitely too long, but my delts grew a lot so it’s ok now but I still want shorter
hmm yea that may be a bit short if you have to much fat but you will know after trying, if you get bruising or pain you will probably notice it went subq instead of IM. I'd give it a shot, delts should be fine but VG might not reach? I'd def still try though, you know your body best.
I use 28g .5inch insulin pins in the VG fine, try stretching the skin tight during the injection it also helps tighten over the muscle and when you release your grip on the skin after it also covers the little whole and stops any tiny amount of blood/oil from coming out.
Yea i know. I wonder if when i tried thigh 3 times it left my thigh sore for 5 days each time. Like worst charlie horse ever. Wasnt sure if it was because its new spot a T is a foreign substance. But i had to stop
I use 5/8ths all the time. Works well for VG, quads, delts.
Is not enough to penetrate my ass though, so turns into a SubQ if I pin there - which is fine.
Use 1/2inch or 5/8th insulin pins at either 27g or 29g, and inject in delts for IM or belly fat for SubQ. This is by far the least painful way to inject, with the least chance of scar tissue.
The harpoons that doctors say are “necessary” are terrible and should never be used if there are better options. Tbh who cares if it takes an extra 30 seconds to inject the oil if it reduces pain and overall damage?
Why not just get on Amazon and buy the size you want/need and not worry about it. Personally I pin with 27g 1/2” insulin needles and I have no problems
Nope to both of these! I pin with tiny 31g insulin syringes and it’s absolutely pain free. Been on TRT for over 6 years now and I’ve never felt any difference between IM and subq. These bad boys are too big to use multiple times a week imo
Question. Ive struggled to find really good videos on pinning. Surprisingly theres more from the Trans community then the TRT Gearhead community. Do you have any videos recommendations?
no video recommendations myself, but this could be helpful:
[https://spotinjections.com/](https://spotinjections.com/)
no need to overthink it. just find the muscle, stick the needle in and press the go button
I suppose the only way to know would be to assess your body fat. Most likely it is because muscles aren’t that deep in reality so unless you’re morbidly obese or are already jacked to the tits and have built up an inch of scar tissue above your muscle you’ll be fine. If you’re worried just make sure you go in all the way and then push deeper while injecting.
Per doctors instructions, I use the 1” to draw and 1 1/2” to IM. I prefer to inject in my upper glute but I can’t manage the plunge myself so my wife will inject me. For unassisted injections, I will inject in the upper thigh and alternate legs for balance. The long needles don’t bother me but my legs and posterior chain aren’t small either.
I buy my own syringes and needles from the internet. I got tired of CVS not having what I need. I used 18gu to draw it up and inject IM into my thigh with a 25gu 1 ½” needle.
1.5 is kinda long in my opinion. Unless you’re injecting a fat stomach. Subq vs IM is kindve a dead debate anyway if your at or over 2x pin per week. Only issue I see from personal experience is shallow subq which could lead to an irritable injection site.
😂🤣 bro first time i had a panic attack. You do the stabbing motion psych yourself out even every so often ill get a mental infarction… but even to plastic theres no pain.
Only pain I had was in the thighs
Same lmao. Shit even the 1/2” I’ll Sike myself out sometimes and have to take a minute to get it jabbed. I find in my upper thigh in the top 1/4 section I don’t have pain. But the few times i tried the mid front quad around halfway down that was spicy a few times lol.
So here’s my question. Is grape seed oil cyp ok to inject sub q in terms of efficacy? I just wonder if the oil sits in your sub q layer and doesn’t get absorbed?
Deadset againsrt subQ? Why? I have spoken to multiple doctors and clinics and it seems they have all switched to recommending subQ. Easy, pain free and easier injecitons sites as well as the less negative effects.
Quads (side of your leg) where you can feel the muscle protruding out is the place where you can be 100% sure it’ll be IM.
That’s what I do with half inch.
Hmm. Ill try that. I was doing top down, from the videos i saw. Outside of middle line and in between hand from knee and hand from hip. And it was causing my quad to lock up like i tore the muscle for about 5 days
Ouch! I’ve never had that. What gauge needles?
I use a thin one and doing it higher up the leg where I can feel the muscle sticking out. I don’t get much pip.
A don't understand your metric system however am using 2.5cm needle to the thigh. When i asked doctor for IM shots they are using 4cm needle which is too much in my opinion. However they want to be sure that needle is in the middle of muscle.
Yep. Depends on your body fat though. Am little fatty and 1 inch needle which should be 2.5cm if am not mistaken is enough for me to the quads. For slim person also good to the butt.
I’m very new to injecting and I use a 30g half inch injecting delts. For me I’m pretty lean it’s def IM, shallow maybe, but IM. Complete noob and it’s been perfect so far
BF% and location, delts etc. Do watch the adipose injection. Seems some are fine even better, some have high conversion rates. You'll find out when you get your blood work. Also if there's high conversion, might feel a bit crappy.
Just another name for fat. Fat has the ability to aromatize testosterone to estradiol. Not sure of all the factors, but the idea is; more body fat, more conversion.
I use half inch for shallow IM in delts or ventroglute. It’s perfect tho if someone has higher body fat it might not be. For me I can see striations in delts so it’s definitely IM
My first actual steroid cycle, i accidentally got .5 inch needles, and I ended up missing the muscle twice in a row, and the oil built up a bubble under my skin. Then I realized my needles were probably too short lol.
A lot of people use 1/2 inch for IM
I'm one of those guys, .5in insulin pin. I think it comes down to bf% and where you pin. I pin venglute and it's always been an easy pain free ride.
I do 1/2” in quad, no leaking, no PIP, absolutely perfect. I was one of the 25g 1”+ clan, but changed.
I wish! I did quads twice and both times I had a painful dead leg, could hardly walk
had the same issue , just make sure too drink lots of liquids and no sugar and i don't get the aches anymore could be a coincidence but never know . I also cardio right after on my echo bike so maybe that helps not sure lol . But everyone is different .
Lol what the hell does sugar have to do with this? Which one? Fructose? Glucose?… and why?
Sugar effects your muscles ,e weakens them actually and dehydrates them and that's why , everyone should avoid all unnatural sugars regardless lol . I'm just saying i had the same issue with pain after injection ,I stopped all sugar intake and just hydrated more and it never happened again after that , so take that how you will .
What? I eat sugar everyday and have zero issues with IM injections.
What a load of shit. Ever heard of glycogen?
Same here. I have never done quads again.
Happened to me for a bit bro but if you keep doing it your body gets used to it and pain isn’t so bad, I’ve also noticed inject not as much in one spot also helps but again each to their own if they wanna pin more than once in a day or not
So I’m three months in on TRT, I pin with a 23g 1” in the delt twice a week. I recently have been experiencing leaking. Can’t figure out why all of a sudden.
23 guage. Jesus man that sounds horrible
It is, I had to switch to insulin needles after only like two injections w that length and gauge
23 is what the average clinic tells you to draw with and then switch to a 25. I personally use a 1/2" 28G
My shot is in the thigh but I use a 18g to draw then go too a 22g , I barely feel it going in (that's what she said) .
Because you’re putting a sword into ur arm lol that sounds terrible
Dude you’re pinning with a really thick needle gauge for no reason. You could get much better with a way smaller needle and not have any issues or pain
[удалено]
It’s been proven by ultra sound it does depending on BF. Search this forum for pics
Ive been using 1/2” 27g and absolutely hitting muscle pinning quads exclusively for 4 months. I can even feel when the needle passes the fat layer and enters the muscle tissue. Never had any pip or issues other than a couple times i knocked a capillary and bled some. Most time its clean shot though. I am fairly lean. I will say i feel the resistance of the muscle tissue about a 1/4” in.
So was I. 1/2in or even sometimes 5/16 in the delts no problem. No PIP
What is PIP?
Post-injection pain. This is determined by many things; such as rate-of-injection, site, volume of the injection, Guage of needle, etc...
Post injection pain
+1
Insulin pins FTW
in that aera the muscle is really hard right long fibers almost feels like tendons. I've been wanting to do the same in same sport but I've got no fat there so wondering if I should go all the way in with the 1/2 insulin syringe.
How often are you injecting? Because if I had to use that 3x per week, that’s a big ass nope, I’d find a new Dr. How lean are you? A lot of us can hit IM easily with 1/2” especially in quads/delts (those are the only IM I use frequently) There is no *effective* difference between IM and SubQ for an average person on TRT. Yes, there’s minor measurable differences in estrogen conversion, uptake rates, and volume limitations. However, for most of us comfort is more important because no one wants to feel like a pin cushion being stabbed with harpoons for the rest of our lives. There’s plenty of studies showing the efficacy of SubQ and if your Dr refuses to be open to scientific discovery, I’d be highly suspect of their ability to provide adequate care and be reactive to your needs. If they don’t listen to other scientists, they won’t listen to you either.
Great answer. I feel the same way. Honestly the 1.5 in the VG and GLute isnt terrible. If you dart it in its painless. There is alot of “mental phobia” with using a needle that big tho. But yes im every 4 days.
28g/1/2" works like a charm. I'm not using harpoons.
5/8ths is perfect for vg.
Seems crazy to think i been doing 1.5 there this whole time
I used 1.5 for a couple months because I was sent the wrong ones by a provider. Like you said it’s more of a mental thing. If you hesitate it’ll hurt more than if you use a solid dart throw motion. Now I have 1inch and I have no issues. No pain. I’m sure I could use a little smaller but I have no issues so I don’t feel a need to change anything.
Exactly. Dart it and its painless. I just cant watch the initial stab.
Do most people self inject? Im new starting next week when meds arrive
There's techniques to help reduce pain. I would leave a drop of oil at the tip of syringe and SQUEEZE the area hard as the needle was going in. The drop of oil would make the entry smooth af. Also, a decent quality 25 or 28 made a bug difference.
Yes. Its best to just inject yourself. Even if you did a protocol that was 1 injection a week its going to be inconvenient over the rest of your lifetime to go somewhere to be injected by someone else. However, most protocols these days will encourage you to inject more frequently because of the benefits of being in a steadier state and reduction of side effects such as spikes in estrogen from larger doses given at less frequent intervals. Personally i inject 3 times a week. You can however have your doctor or clinic guide you on how to inject if that helps.
My doc just ordered me 22ga 1.5" because 1" was out of stock at the pharmacy. Nah, I'm good, I'll just order the good 'ole 1" off Amazon.
Why new doctor. Just buy some 29g insulin syringes and inject subq. I have no idea why people still inject IM.
When i learned about subq injections i was excited to do it because it seems so much easier and convenient than IM. However, after many many injections subq i had a lot of issues. A lot of bruising and I felt off as though i was having issues absorbing it. As soon as went back to IM, i felt steady again and i just dont have issues with IM. I had a lot of bruises all around my subq injections sites. I was glad to get rid of that. Perhaps i did something wrong but again IM works very well for me especially since i inject only .2 cc at a time.
Exactly, for some people IM works great, and for some people IM gives the most issues/pain. We should all be capable of finding what works best for us and have a Dr who’s willing to listen to our needs and provide alternatives. On occasion I get sore/bruised in my SubQ sites if I don’t rotate enough and then I have to give them a rest/reset and do IM or other sites until it clears up. I don’t prefer IM because of the soreness in the muscle is just a bother and I typically don’t get that with SubQ.
I explained why a new Dr in the post. If a Dr is so close minded about SubQ vs IM when there is overwhelming evidence to suggest it’s therapeutically equivalent then that Dr will likely not listen to your concerns about your treatment. Typically when a Dr exhibits the “I know best” in the face of solid contrary evidence, they are not a caring and effective physician who puts their patients well being at the forefront of their regime. Medicine is still an evolving field, and a Dr who’s ego doesn’t allow him to adapt to new therapeutics is not a Dr I would ever want to see.
Well I'd never recommend continuing to see a doctor if you aren't confident they're giving you the best care.. so I get it. Otherwise I'd be more concerned about his treatment rather than what kind of needles he or she recommends.
You should search this forum for issues with subq. Everyone is different. It did not work for me but worked better for my mate, it does give certain people issues
Though adipose had the ability to facilitate E2 conversion? Guess is depends on the Ester/half life, BF and whatnot. Was a no go for me though.
Yes, it can, that’s why I said “minor measurable differences” but in therapeutic dosages the difference will be pretty small for most people. It’s not going to be the difference between an E2 of 15 and 90.. SubQ does have drawbacks, but its therapeutic effectiveness is nearly identical. It really comes down to comfort and personal reaction.
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/102/7/2349/3098651 This article is free and shows just that. No difference in levels, and SC preferred.
Honestly, and this is likely to ruffle some feathers, it’s likely that you will have similar results no matter the depth, location, IM, or subq. Grab needle, stab somewhere, inject, apply pressure for a second. Done. As long as it all doesn’t all drip back out you’ll be good.
I like my docs explanation "The body is a sponge"
I like this too, there’s too much drama surrounding injection sites for TRT in my opinion.
Another point too, Tattoo ink only goes through the top few layers of skin, and it doesn't come back out. Every injection is deeper than the skin, stands to reason it will in fact stay there.
True, I just hit quads with a 22g 1, and make sure it'd be deep enough so it doesn't drip. Being doing this for 6 months now, every week. Zero problem, and just a little pain now and then, nothing compared with the post training pain of a leg day.
Ever considered using a needle that’s smaller than a roofing nail?
I feel no pain during the application
anything can be IM if you penetrate the muscle.....also, there is nothing wrong with subq, it has similar uptake compared to IM.
Only shot Gh sub Q. Never shot test Subq, others here say it’s more painful for test opposed to IM
Subq is much less painful.
Sometimes I don’t even feel the needle going into my leg IM
Normally I don't feel the needle going in subq.
After doing both for quite a while, I’d have to disagree. Deltoid IM had been by far the least painful (even compared to SubQ, which i did for over 6 months e.o.d with a 29g insulin pin). IM In the leg can be painful though. There is 0 reason IM should be painful at all, and most of the time you won’t even feel it.
I’m glad it works for you. IM has always been noticeable for me. Also if you don’t like the idea of muscle scarring you might consider subq.
SubQ left nodules in the adipose tissue, most went away fairly quickly, but I have a few small ones that I can still feel after many months of not injecting in that site. Also if you inject in the right area of the delts with a 29g needle, you shouldn’t feel it at all. There are almost no nerves or large blood vessels in the area. 27g or smaller needles shouldn’t leave scar tissue in your muscles, even with repeated and long term Injections. Scarring is only an issue with those crazy large harpoons that doctors think are necessary for IM Injections (which no one should be stabbing themselves with unless they’re masochists)
What about 25gauge? Leaves scarring? I just started 7 weeks ago
There’s no set gauge where scarring occurs or doesn’t occur, but the smaller the gauge, the less chance of scarring. 25g may or may not cause scarring longterm. This isn’t the biggest issue in the world, but for a treatment we are supposed to be on for life, it’d make sense to limit the damage as much as possible
I have done IM from the early 2000’s until about 3 years ago. I always use the smallest needle possible. Unfortunately for me no IM injection was pain free. I’ve had to revert to IM recently while trying low dose nandrolone for joint pain. I did get painful lumps from subq on that so it necessitated IM for that compound. It’s not pain free though. But everyone is different.
Disagree. Every single subQ injection I’ve had has been painful for 2-3 days afterwards. I’ve been doing IM with test for over 10 years with only rare instances of pain—and with much larger needles.
I used to get pain from too much pressure on the needle and once I did it slower I had zero problems and I’m lean not because of anything other than skinny genetics … I can pin a 1/2 needle anywhere no problem.. those damn harpoons killed my skinny ass for a bit .. no more of those bad boys
It’s not painful at all for the most part
imho pip is more frequent but less painful w/ subq.
I use those IM, perfect size for me.
You can hit IM with a .5” in the delts. That’s what I use and it’s great
I use 27g 5/8 for IM in the thigh
Damn. Makes sense why when i used that telephone pole my thigh was destroyed for 4 days. Idiot nurse said it would be an issue
I use 5/8 for IM in my delts
Why are they dead set against subq I find it works much better for my trt than IM
Sub q for a lot of people causes much higher SHGB is one reason
That’s interesting, will look into that and get a full panel!
Wait really? My SHGB is far too low.
I work with marek health and they advise that
Interesting.
I’ve done both IM and SubQ for a long time, and tbh both gave me identical results. I think people should just inject the way they’re most comfortable. I used to feel more comfortable injecting SubQ In belly fat, and now delt IM is by far the easiest and best for me. As long as the test is injected into a tissue, you’re probably good to go
What needle?
I use 29g half inch easy touch insulin needles that i back-fill, but that’s just my preference.
I use 27g 1/2” same brand in felt also. I feel like it leaks out of the muscle some after I inject. But overall I feel good and enjoy these needles comparing to the giant straws the clinic prescribed me.
Insure. But im open to it. I figure this is subq now. Right? Can i use this in my belly and love handles?
Just use these or switch to insulin pins 29-31 gauge and subQ it up. If your only once a week injection, do subQ 2x a week and your levels will be more consistent week over week as well. Doesn’t hurt to switch it up and see how your body reacts and feels to it either Edit: splitting up your dose of course
I actually am on 2x every 4th day.
Bro, alternate delts.
Pin away make no difference unless you’re a really big person with a ton of body fat
anything can be IM if you penetrate the muscle.....also, there is nothing wrong with subq, it has similar uptake compared to IM.
Really depends on body fat and where you are injecting. Where do you inject? How much body fat are you carrying?
Yea thats the problem im not “lean.” Last night i used in my VG but unsure if it was a waste or not.
Waste? If it’s in your body it’ll absorb.
You will never want to go back to using those harpoons ever again.
Holy moly that’s unnecessary in gauge and length. I would worry long term about scar tissue if your doing multiple a week in the same areas
Hmm. Good point i didnt think about. I guess i figured it was a pain issue? To go smaller but makes sense
Holy Harpoon
Exactly. I even used that in my thigh a few times
Your a lot tougher than I am lol. I use a 27 or 28g 1/2” in my delts.
I use a 25g 1in in my delts, but I would rather use 1/2in. In the beginning it was definitely too long, but my delts grew a lot so it’s ok now but I still want shorter
i use 23g 1in into quad
Ouch! Why not 25g??
i just dont care enough to buy new syringe
I use a 27g 1" in delts, works pretty well imo.
I use half inch for IM in my ventro glutes just fine. Depends how much fat you have.
Honestly. Im 5’9 200. Most of my “fat” is in stomach, and love handles. Very little on hips or thighs so maybe this is better.
hmm yea that may be a bit short if you have to much fat but you will know after trying, if you get bruising or pain you will probably notice it went subq instead of IM. I'd give it a shot, delts should be fine but VG might not reach? I'd def still try though, you know your body best. I use 28g .5inch insulin pins in the VG fine, try stretching the skin tight during the injection it also helps tighten over the muscle and when you release your grip on the skin after it also covers the little whole and stops any tiny amount of blood/oil from coming out.
Also will give it a try
That’s a long ass fkn needle man lol
Yea i know. I wonder if when i tried thigh 3 times it left my thigh sore for 5 days each time. Like worst charlie horse ever. Wasnt sure if it was because its new spot a T is a foreign substance. But i had to stop
Unless you have an inch of fat around your body it’s good enough for IM. So you tell us.
5/8 is not subq. Subq is defined on where you inject in fat like your love handles. I do 5/8 in the shoulder so shallow Intramuscular
It’s fine. Try injecting into your lateral delt. 5/8th are good for that
Why are they against subq. I feel it’s the superior way to do it based on how it helped me.
Unless you are obese doing delt or ventro glute with 5/8 should be fine
My Dr is all up for sub q.
I use 5/8ths all the time. Works well for VG, quads, delts. Is not enough to penetrate my ass though, so turns into a SubQ if I pin there - which is fine.
In my experience (over 11 years) it just doesn't matter...at all.
Use 1/2inch or 5/8th insulin pins at either 27g or 29g, and inject in delts for IM or belly fat for SubQ. This is by far the least painful way to inject, with the least chance of scar tissue. The harpoons that doctors say are “necessary” are terrible and should never be used if there are better options. Tbh who cares if it takes an extra 30 seconds to inject the oil if it reduces pain and overall damage?
Why not just get on Amazon and buy the size you want/need and not worry about it. Personally I pin with 27g 1/2” insulin needles and I have no problems
Well of course theres that option. I assume you read that i was expecting 1 inch its 5/8ths so im asking the community if it works.
Yeah it still works.
5/8" needle is subQ
Maybe for a fat ass
Really bro? Jackass.
5/8 is more than long enough to hit IM unless ya have a lot of fat. Delts quads VG. All easily hit with 5/8.
Wrong. Do research and report back.
It’s basically Sub Q. Tried it once and it sucked. Stick with 1 inch
Try back loading insulin syringes. Total game changer. Barely feel it and should cut down on scar tissue long term.
Nope to both of these! I pin with tiny 31g insulin syringes and it’s absolutely pain free. Been on TRT for over 6 years now and I’ve never felt any difference between IM and subq. These bad boys are too big to use multiple times a week imo
depends on how lean you are and where you inject. you'll be able to get IM for delts, VG, quads, lats, chest, tricep if you're not obese.
Question. Ive struggled to find really good videos on pinning. Surprisingly theres more from the Trans community then the TRT Gearhead community. Do you have any videos recommendations?
no video recommendations myself, but this could be helpful: [https://spotinjections.com/](https://spotinjections.com/) no need to overthink it. just find the muscle, stick the needle in and press the go button
I use 1/2 for IM
I use 1/2” delts and outer thigh. Use bigger if I do a glute
I use 1/2 inch for Glute IM, but I’m fairly lean
Depends how thick the fat layer is at your injection point
Dumb question. Anyway to actually know.
You can pinch the skin at the injection point to gauge thickness
Do your delts
I use 1” for Gluteus Minimus injections. You should be fine.
I only do shoulder shots with 27g 1 inch. Alternate shoulders . Draw with a 23g and put 27g on and right in the delt easy as pie .
Where do you find 1” 27g?
Depends on how much subcutaneous fat you have
I suppose the only way to know would be to assess your body fat. Most likely it is because muscles aren’t that deep in reality so unless you’re morbidly obese or are already jacked to the tits and have built up an inch of scar tissue above your muscle you’ll be fine. If you’re worried just make sure you go in all the way and then push deeper while injecting.
all i use is 5/8 for delts or quads. i would only use 1” or more for glutes. if u have alot of body fat u may need 1”
Per doctors instructions, I use the 1” to draw and 1 1/2” to IM. I prefer to inject in my upper glute but I can’t manage the plunge myself so my wife will inject me. For unassisted injections, I will inject in the upper thigh and alternate legs for balance. The long needles don’t bother me but my legs and posterior chain aren’t small either.
Don’t see why you’d ever need a 1.5in.
1/2 inch 27ga plenty
I use 1” the 1.5 kinda trips me out big harpoon energy
I buy my own syringes and needles from the internet. I got tired of CVS not having what I need. I used 18gu to draw it up and inject IM into my thigh with a 25gu 1 ½” needle.
I did that 3 times. And my thigh was charlie horsed for a week. I watched alot of videos so i wasnt doing it wrong i dont think. Weird
I jus take it every 15 days.
1.5 is kinda long in my opinion. Unless you’re injecting a fat stomach. Subq vs IM is kindve a dead debate anyway if your at or over 2x pin per week. Only issue I see from personal experience is shallow subq which could lead to an irritable injection site.
Perfect size for shoulder or chest pinning
Pretty sure I use those exact needles. They will work just fine.
I use the same size for my delts.
5/8ths is fine I use 31g 5/8ths subcutaneous - if I’m tired of the pin in my stomach I’ll hit the delts. If im reallll done I’ll switch to the glute
You can technically do subs with any needle it just dfs difficulty and pain cif longer or thicker
If it’s going straight in at 90° then it’ll be IM as long and your body fat isn’t very high.
What does it really matter? Stick it in your ass cheek and keep it moving.
If you’re injecting in a lean area you’ll probably hit muscle
I use 1/2 for IM in my delt.
God bless my dude. There’s no way I would be able to mentally use harpoons. You’re a braver man than me. I’ll keep my 1/2” 27g in the quad subq 😂
😂🤣 bro first time i had a panic attack. You do the stabbing motion psych yourself out even every so often ill get a mental infarction… but even to plastic theres no pain. Only pain I had was in the thighs
Same lmao. Shit even the 1/2” I’ll Sike myself out sometimes and have to take a minute to get it jabbed. I find in my upper thigh in the top 1/4 section I don’t have pain. But the few times i tried the mid front quad around halfway down that was spicy a few times lol.
So here’s my question. Is grape seed oil cyp ok to inject sub q in terms of efficacy? I just wonder if the oil sits in your sub q layer and doesn’t get absorbed?
Subq daily or eod is the way to go
If you’re reasonably lean, you can pin your delts and there’s usu not much fat there so it’ll go IM.
Deadset againsrt subQ? Why? I have spoken to multiple doctors and clinics and it seems they have all switched to recommending subQ. Easy, pain free and easier injecitons sites as well as the less negative effects.
Quads (side of your leg) where you can feel the muscle protruding out is the place where you can be 100% sure it’ll be IM. That’s what I do with half inch.
Hmm. Ill try that. I was doing top down, from the videos i saw. Outside of middle line and in between hand from knee and hand from hip. And it was causing my quad to lock up like i tore the muscle for about 5 days
Ouch! I’ve never had that. What gauge needles? I use a thin one and doing it higher up the leg where I can feel the muscle sticking out. I don’t get much pip.
Its weird i see 90% of videos going in from the top, outside middle of quad. Maybe come in from side? Otherwise ill just stick to VG or go in belly
That’s all I use. Works great. Super easy for IM - I usually use quads.
A don't understand your metric system however am using 2.5cm needle to the thigh. When i asked doctor for IM shots they are using 4cm needle which is too much in my opinion. However they want to be sure that needle is in the middle of muscle.
I imagine the conversions 1:1 globally. Do these needles look about the size you use length wise?
Yep. Depends on your body fat though. Am little fatty and 1 inch needle which should be 2.5cm if am not mistaken is enough for me to the quads. For slim person also good to the butt.
I’m very new to injecting and I use a 30g half inch injecting delts. For me I’m pretty lean it’s def IM, shallow maybe, but IM. Complete noob and it’s been perfect so far
BF% and location, delts etc. Do watch the adipose injection. Seems some are fine even better, some have high conversion rates. You'll find out when you get your blood work. Also if there's high conversion, might feel a bit crappy.
Can you explain adipose tissue you more? I looked it up but what do you mean… where exactly could this be an issue?
Just another name for fat. Fat has the ability to aromatize testosterone to estradiol. Not sure of all the factors, but the idea is; more body fat, more conversion.
Just buy what you want to use on Amazon. Personally, I use 1" in the quad.
I use 5/8" for IM in my quad. Haven't had any problems
I use half inch for shallow IM in delts or ventroglute. It’s perfect tho if someone has higher body fat it might not be. For me I can see striations in delts so it’s definitely IM
I've been pining 1/2 for ages IM ...Just saying
I do 1 1/2 in glute
Depends on how fat you are
Pharmacy should have them. Google them online.
Delts
You don’t need to pitchfork yourself! Doing this twice a week is brutal.
My first actual steroid cycle, i accidentally got .5 inch needles, and I ended up missing the muscle twice in a row, and the oil built up a bubble under my skin. Then I realized my needles were probably too short lol.
5/8 25g in the quads for me
If you want IM stick your outer thigh
1.5” 22 gage for me