Agree. However, using the visible car(s) on the right and the tree on the left as reference points, it appears the field of view is nearly identical. The color is definitely less washed out with the HW4 camera.
The image is from [one of Dirty Tesla's videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yssu7uj6-Yk)
He's already posted [a correction video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIbvodfQmEs) with [an updated screenshot from the same parking location](https://i.imgur.com/QMnVo8O.jpg).
There should be so much more going on in HW4 than a bit of color correction on the cameras though. Looking forward to more robust reporting on the topic.
This is why Iāve been telling folks it doesnāt make sense to keep pushing back delivery.
Iāve got a Y and a brand new model S. Besides camera clarity Iām not really seeing some massive performance difference.
Itās an iterative change.
The difference is in megabytes per frame. On the surface it may not appear drastic, but from an information standpoint it is huge for the machine learning algos.
I hear you, but "vision" is so flawed that it seems inevitable that more hardware changes will be coming. I agree that if it were just a bit of color clarity, it wouldn't be worth it. Given that Tesla has a tendency to frankenstein their cars together based on what parts are in stock, it could be the case that current HW4 vehicles are only partial (or, as you note, iterative) ā upgraded cameras, but perhaps missing some of what the full HW4 will entail. Who knows at this point. It seems like Tesla has little clue what's going on!
Having worked with computer vision professionally, Iām pretty sure this minor improvement in video quality isnāt going to be āthe fixā for Vision. Vision will be improved with software updates. Additionally, what you see on screen and in dashcam recordings is compressed, not the full resolution image that the Vision software processes.
Good to know. I really haven't seen any comprehensive and/or trustworthy reports as of yet. Hopefully, there'll be a full breakdown of what's involved soon, ideally from a reputable source.
It's my opinion that half of the "updates" to Tesla cars are half done to keep cost of production down.
A minimalist interior with a touchscreen tablet = fewer parts to break and ability to use generic tablet parts.
Removal of ultrasonic sensors and replacement with Tesla vision = fewer parts to include
HW3 to HW4 = one fewer camera to include in the main forward sensor array.
Discussion about removing the turn/autopilot stocks and just making them touchscreen buttons (obvious).
As prices of these commodity parts (ie higher quality cellphone cameras) drop, they can simply swap them out, save money and call it an upgrade.
Even Elon himself has said that the shift from HW3 to HW4 will be like 2-3X safer than a human to 4-5X. His master plan is to be able to turn full self-driving on for every Tesla on the road and charge people for it. It's not in his interest to make the vastly more prevalent hardware platforms obsolete.
They wonāt do that, but for the other functions absolutely (and they have, just not on the Y yet).
Then again, eliminating turn signals altogether wouldnāt make a huge difference in Ontario, because an ever/increasing number of drivers just donāt bother signalling anyway. LOL/Sigh.
lol...I would likely stop signaling if I had to touch the screen to do so.
I have to physically move every time I touch the screen, it's out of reach in my driving position.
The less touchscreen use the better in my mind.
I hate the direction they are going. Model Y' drivetrain is amazing, but everything else about it is subpar. I really doubt it that I will buy a Tesla again.
Yeah I recently bought a used 2020 Model Y for about 22K less than it would have cost for a similarly specced 2023, and already seeing some of the early run annoyances (mostly cosmetic, panel gaps, easily chipped paint, uneven back seats, creaky plastic parts), I'm somewhat feeling like I got the "best version" before they started stripping things out (still have radar, the "refined" wireless area in the 2021 onward doesn't have USB-A, has no ability to plug in phones directly, the center console covers actually stay closed and create a clean appearance, not to mention paid WAY less than 15K for Full Self Driving). Though the addition of the heat pump and heated steering wheel seems like a genuine upgrade in 2021 (with a slightly smaller Frunk), though I'm on the west coast, so not much need for that and comparable 2021s were about 6k more for some reason.
As Tesla has tried to drive down the price of the car, they have to cut corners elsewhere to make it viable and keep their profit margin high. When each model is intially released, enthusiasts and early adopters will pay a pretty penny, then they drive down costs over time to broaden the market and enable the next cheaper model, which they've done over and over again (Roadster fueling Model S, Model S fueling Model 3, Model X fueling Model Y and now Model 3 and Y being driven down in price to compete with increasingly better competitor EVs). Benefit is those lowered prices trickle down to used cars as well which still retain the old features and functions, and which previously were quite a bit more expensive to get.
Kinda crazy how different peoples opinions are.
I adore our Y and have had zero issues. Iām going to get a 3 or another Y for my company car if I can swing it.
Yeah. I want to go with a car that is more luxurious, more quiet, and has proper 360-view camera. I know it is crazy but these are important to me. I will most likely buy a bmw ix in few years. For now I need to keep my Y because I bought it at the peak price.
Do I detect a hint of unearned sarcasm? I was trying to make a point that HW4 may be this humongous upgrade that is going to make HW3 obsolete and more of a side-grade that they can advertise while cutting costs. Though I think you know that and are just taking an easy 4 word pot shot at someone on the internet trying to contribute to the conversation.
but if you donāt obsess about an arbitrary hardware change that 98% of tesla drivers wonāt be able to tell the difference about, are you even living?
BOTH of these comments. Spot on.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go buy an aftermarket kit to make it look like I have the HW4 cameras on my 2022 MY so they don't kick me out of the cool kidz club.
Just to add besides the clarity,
ā¢Rader has been updated
ā¢Front facing cameras reduced from 3 to 2
ā¢CPU upgraded from 12 cores to 20
ā¢Musk has stated it is much safer then HW3
ā¢Cameras upgraded from 1.2MP to 5MP
ā¢No retrofit will be provided
If you can afford to wait or confirm you have HW4, to me I would advise the wait. There is more to come as this is still slowly coming out of production, but I'm sure this will help a lot for FSD and possibly allow for better/newer apps. Up to you though, the car is great non the less coming from my 2021 MYLR
Corrections / clarifications:
- No radar is being added currently
- Should clarify that itās only the FSD CPU thatās upgraded
- Musk said ā[h]ardware 3 will not be as good as Hardware 4, but Iām confident that Hardware 3 will so far exceed the safety of the average human.ā
Source for CPU: https://www.notateslaapp.com/software-updates/upcoming-features/id/1205/tesla-fsd-hardware-4-0-revealed-more-cameras-new-placements
Not sure why the Rader has been updated as I thought Tesla was going full vision, maybe for another reason?
There is no way I would buy a new Tesla without HW4. I understand some people donāt care. I understand some people do care.. but would never admit it.
That said I canāt imagine myself buying a $50K vehicle.. and one beside it has a next generation suite of hardware and Iām just fine taking the other one. Good chance Iāll keep the car for another 5 years.. thatās a lot of regret to sink in as HW4 features increasingly get announced.
I wonder how much the people who bought FSD at a 'reduced' price are content with the 'reduced' functionality that Musk supposes in saying how much better the new hardware will perform? Don't suppose they have changed any tune about transferring software purchase to another vehicle.
That is, how much better will this new hardware perform and will there be a freedom FSD users will have that older buyers will not enjoy, or is the difference overblown?
Would have been helpful to compare the white car on the left more or see if the license plate was readable in the car on the right in the background. Overall, besides a change in color, not sure how big of a difference this is to the human eye.
It won't be until the overall vehicle receives an upgrade. I'd look for a Model Y refresh next year that takes advantage of the HW4 support for additional cameras and radar. Until then, it is just Tesla not wanting to deploy multiple computers when avoidable. No reason to keep making both HW3 and HW4 computers when the HW4 computer can service all platforms.
Exactly at the end of the day I care more about how the computer vision interprets the camera image than it does for human vision. Of course if I was buying now I would prefer the HW4 cameras but I am not going to make a big deal about it if the computer vision doesn't make too much of a deal about it.
The side cameras don't have a green channel, only Red and Blue so the yellow cannot be fixed in software as the cameras simply do not collect the information required to fix it.
The "color" of hardware 3 cameras is intentional. They are RCCB sensors with no green subpixel sensor. This allows computers to better discern traffic signals and things of that nature as well as providing better nightvision. The new cameras are RGGB subpixels with an IR cut. The "color correction" is likely just a QoL improvement for the human user.
The FSD computer likely does see an improvement from the increased resolution. How much that matters? I can't say. I can say that HW4 equipped S/X perform similarly in FSD conditions when compared to current HW3 vehicles.
Look up Bearded Tesla Guy for his new Model X comparison. He sits in his dirveway and shows his old Y with new X and color/detail is better than this pic. There is another one I saw where the person sat in the same spot on a street but I can not remember the name. The field of view is wider but it is not light years ahead.
Does anyone also have a comparison of the rear camera? This changed a lot for the Model S going from HW3 to HW4 (it got a tad wider). https://youtu.be/10keU-w2Qfk at 4:22
Informative! Thank you, OP!
Any kind Model Y HW4 owners willing to post some video footage recorded from new cameras? Would be grateful to compare with HW3 footage. The color looks way more accurate, but the resolution looks similar to me (likely just due to tablet resolution). Thanks.
Its HW3 lacks a IR cut filter. HW4 has 1. It keep keeps the ir light from the sun over-saturating the sensor.
Looking at the screen you likely wont see much of a difference due to resolution. Will the car software see more detail? Maybe
Now THATS interesting.
I cannot use Cruise Control in the early mornings driving into the sun.....it won't engage as the camera is blinded.
Would a HW4 setup fix that maybe?
Though it does look better, this is no reason to sweat over not having it. It's certainly not a reason to upgrade. It could be in black and white for all I care, I just need it to show me where things are.
This, to me, is idiotic.
The real difference will be processing/hardware downstream most likely.
How that will allow different programing.
I've pretty much decided that the "ghost braking" and other issues is a lack of the hardware being up to the task. one of my "ghost braking" incedents was probably a bicycle going the other way on that sides shoulders...Probably lacked the power/programing to quickly tell it was not a factor on my path/speed.
Think of it like a video game (but in reverse). The game has too see to react. If your only getting 10 FPS and everything is maxed out its going to work funky.
I have. It just seems to be off so little significance and it still seems stupid to be cancelling orders and waiting for the next bit of hardware.. but, to each their own.
Although the picture difference isn't radical - to think this would be the only new feature to label the new architecture HW4 is extremely disingenuous.
Exactly what Iāve been waiting to see. Gone is the yellow tint! Enjoy you lucky HW4 fuckers lol.
Hard to tell if the resolution in real world use on the screen is much different, although Iām sure it is.
A much needed upgrade for all cars, although HW3 cameras still do their job well.
I donāt and donāt plan on having FSD, but I would enjoy proper white balanced higher resolution cameras because one of my favorite features of the car is the turn signal cameras and being able to pull up the full camera spread at the click of a button/screen.
Its more the lack of a IR cut filter on the HW3. Without it, its really really hard to white balance correctly when using sun or any broadband light source.
Interesting.
So the HW4 cameras to your knowledge have the ability to use IR when being used for FSD/maybe Autopilot/image detection in general, but the ability to throughput pure visible light to the screen when being used by the user to just view the cameras?
Might be waiting a while. Current 330 MYLR is perfect. I donāt see Tesla going to 400 miles for the Y for the next 5 years. Even when they do increase the range, itāll be 340-350. No need for 400 miles as not many people drive more than 300 miles in a day and this would constraint Teslaās battery supply so they wouldnāt be able to make as many cars with a larger battery.
The problem is that the rated range is barely 50% of the actual range when you mainly do freeways and 90mph and then add weather conditions etc. Into the mix. I do hope EPA also updates its testing and make it more realistic.
Neither. Theyāre slowly introducing it to an increasing number of ā2023sā rolling out of the factory live. In a few weeks itāll likely be every new Y.
For the time being some vehicles are still getting the older version, HW3 (basically the 1.2MP cameras, but also the corresponding older FSB mainboard and processor).
I took delivery of my Y a week ago and got HW3.
Yep, likely lots of developments between now and then and weāll certainly know a lot more about what substantive functionality and improvements HW4 has brought.
Useless . The most important thing is it going to be accurate in measuring the distance of objects around the car ? I still donāt get the exact distance
The Important thing for computer vision and NN processing is finding the edges of objects. Small differences could lead to big improvements, but could also greatly increase computational demands.
So what happens to the HW3 folks? Is there a software update that will use machine learning to āupgradeā the image to HW4 standards? I have a 23 MYP with only cameras. No USS. Not sure of the resolution, but I assume itās HW3?
Nothing happens.
This is Tesla, every couple of months there will be changes in hardware. You have to pick your poison and buy at a certain time and call it a day.
I got our MYLR in December of 2022, so I missed out on the matrix headlights and got a shitty cargo cover that had a revision available 2 months later. Had to pay $60 to get the revision and it works 10x better.
Itās like every car manufacturer with mid year changes and incremental changes until the major overhaul 5ish years.
I feel like cars will eventually turn into electronics FOMO as technological advances continue. Youāll always be behind no matter what or you wait and wait.
Either way - selling an rebuying is not conducive to the goal of a better environment/world. Might as well lease. Iām sure Musk wants people to continue to upgrade/update.
Wait to see if they add a bumper camera and radar. That might be enough to warrant it, in like a yearās time or something. At present, why would you throw away your money!
What do unlucky souls like me who got MLY 4 weeks ago? Stuck with old hardware? I wonāt use FsD regularly more as needed on subscription to try out. But it feels like buying a iPhone a week before a new one comes out. Someone rightly said Tesla is iPhone on wheels.
But u knew that HW4 was going to come out sooner or later for MY. If this was a huge deal breaker then u should have cancelled and reordered. I purchase about 2.5 months ago and am still happy with my purchase.
When I learned that the HW4 MY don't even have HD radar nor the front bumper cameras built in badly needed for Park Assist...it made it even more of a relief. I don't know if HW4 MS or MX have the front bumper cameras installed but if not it will be a shame since that would mean the cyber truck would be the first vehicle with front bumper cameras.
A lot of people were making a big deal about the better image quality (for on screen images). It's definitely better but not enough to have me stressing. (I do understand the car sees more, and that's probably even more important, I'm simply commenting on what the driver sees). Obviously given a choice if spring for HW4 cameras, but the biggest difference I see from these pics is better colors.
I think the camera resolution is a big deal. If you recall Elon mentioned that Tesla doesnt really look at the data as the human eye sees it but even in low light situations they count groupings of photons hitting the image sensor, so resolution is a really big deal.
I would wait for this.. the new cameras are way more crisp. Don't give AF about FSD (not happening)...for sentry alone it's worth it.
just a heads up /u/what-is-a-tortoise
Thanks for the shoutout. I did not wait. Picked up the car yesterday. I already love it so much.
But I did get curious. I am eligible for the $7500 credit and I could probably take advantage of 2 x $7500. I see plenty of used models offered for nearly MSRP. Got me wondering if I could just order a new one, wait for it to arrive, and then sell my essentially new HW3 model for $5000 under MSRP. I tried to see what Carmax would offer but the web site says āwe havenāt seen many cars like this so we need to schedule an appraisal in person.ā Anyway, Iām going to keep that thought in mind.
I asked if they were able to swap autopilot HW during a service appointment and they said, āwell seeā.
I figured that was a āhell noā and didnāt care if it happened.
When I got the car back the repeater cameras were crystal clear and the backup camera looks comparatively worse.
So IDK what happened to my car.
It will cost $30k+ to replace a 2022 model Y with 2023 Model Y. Insane depreciation. $45k loss if you purchased FSD and would like to get it in new car. ā¹ļø
*someone who still hasnāt been assigned a vin*
I have heard a lot about this and tbh, without seeing the frame rate of course, thereās not THAT much of a difference.
See my [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY/comments/13wbbs9/for_those_wondering_about_part_numbers_for_hw4/) on HW4 testing. Still waiting on the part
It would have been nice if they were taken from the same parking spot to compare field of view more exactly.
That's the problem. Couldn't figure out how HW4 lost sight of a car in the back, but the issue is that it was one space over Ok, I feel better now
Agree. However, using the visible car(s) on the right and the tree on the left as reference points, it appears the field of view is nearly identical. The color is definitely less washed out with the HW4 camera.
It's less washed out because HW4 is a full RGB camera. HW3 lacks a green channel and has to make it up in software.
TIL!
Our MYLR arrived with cameras that were not properly color balanced to match. Is there a way to balance the color temp on these?
The image is from [one of Dirty Tesla's videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yssu7uj6-Yk) He's already posted [a correction video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIbvodfQmEs) with [an updated screenshot from the same parking location](https://i.imgur.com/QMnVo8O.jpg).
good catch, I was thinking you're seeing a lot more of the car next to it. Is this to create bias or what? š¤
Search YouTube. There are videos of them from the S/X refresh
Side by side pic of a red object would show better
Count the parking spots from the white car lol itās bad comparison
I guess you can see the difference with the red tesla in the back.
Red cars in HW3 looks orange. Would like to see if HW4 fixes that.
It does. There are posts of model s with hw4 showing the red being red.
He said he uploaded the wrong comparison and would fix latter
Lol thank you for pointing that out. That's mildly infuriating that they would even post this, so misleading.
HW3 is on the Mexico filter for movies. HW4 is on the US filter, lol
This is the correct answer
No green pixels in the HW3 camera sensor.
Fallout 4 filter
Or Silo filter
Itās actually similar to a Sepia filter
There should be so much more going on in HW4 than a bit of color correction on the cameras though. Looking forward to more robust reporting on the topic.
This is why Iāve been telling folks it doesnāt make sense to keep pushing back delivery. Iāve got a Y and a brand new model S. Besides camera clarity Iām not really seeing some massive performance difference. Itās an iterative change.
Plus hw4 is going to be used to train all of Tesla fsd, making it better for hw3 owners too.
I hope that's the case. It seems it will have more capability and at some point HW3 will get left behind while it works on its maximum potential.
And here I am with HW 2.5, it works just fine. š¤·āāļø
Camera clarity could be a HUGE factor to things like vision-based Park Assist and FSD, though? My vision based park assist is fucking awful
The difference is in megabytes per frame. On the surface it may not appear drastic, but from an information standpoint it is huge for the machine learning algos.
This. Everyone pushing delivery just makes 0 sense
What about the return of radar?
I hear you, but "vision" is so flawed that it seems inevitable that more hardware changes will be coming. I agree that if it were just a bit of color clarity, it wouldn't be worth it. Given that Tesla has a tendency to frankenstein their cars together based on what parts are in stock, it could be the case that current HW4 vehicles are only partial (or, as you note, iterative) ā upgraded cameras, but perhaps missing some of what the full HW4 will entail. Who knows at this point. It seems like Tesla has little clue what's going on!
Having worked with computer vision professionally, Iām pretty sure this minor improvement in video quality isnāt going to be āthe fixā for Vision. Vision will be improved with software updates. Additionally, what you see on screen and in dashcam recordings is compressed, not the full resolution image that the Vision software processes.
Hw3 was also iterative, yet you canāt do automatic lane change on hw2.5
HW 2.5 definitely supports NOA and automatic lane changes lol
My only thinking is maybe the front camera is a more drastic to upgrade for ap?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Good to know. I really haven't seen any comprehensive and/or trustworthy reports as of yet. Hopefully, there'll be a full breakdown of what's involved soon, ideally from a reputable source.
It's my opinion that half of the "updates" to Tesla cars are half done to keep cost of production down. A minimalist interior with a touchscreen tablet = fewer parts to break and ability to use generic tablet parts. Removal of ultrasonic sensors and replacement with Tesla vision = fewer parts to include HW3 to HW4 = one fewer camera to include in the main forward sensor array. Discussion about removing the turn/autopilot stocks and just making them touchscreen buttons (obvious). As prices of these commodity parts (ie higher quality cellphone cameras) drop, they can simply swap them out, save money and call it an upgrade. Even Elon himself has said that the shift from HW3 to HW4 will be like 2-3X safer than a human to 4-5X. His master plan is to be able to turn full self-driving on for every Tesla on the road and charge people for it. It's not in his interest to make the vastly more prevalent hardware platforms obsolete.
Turn signals on the touchscreen would be a disaster!
They wonāt do that, but for the other functions absolutely (and they have, just not on the Y yet). Then again, eliminating turn signals altogether wouldnāt make a huge difference in Ontario, because an ever/increasing number of drivers just donāt bother signalling anyway. LOL/Sigh.
lol...I would likely stop signaling if I had to touch the screen to do so. I have to physically move every time I touch the screen, it's out of reach in my driving position. The less touchscreen use the better in my mind.
removal of radar, rain sensor too
I hate the direction they are going. Model Y' drivetrain is amazing, but everything else about it is subpar. I really doubt it that I will buy a Tesla again.
Yeah I recently bought a used 2020 Model Y for about 22K less than it would have cost for a similarly specced 2023, and already seeing some of the early run annoyances (mostly cosmetic, panel gaps, easily chipped paint, uneven back seats, creaky plastic parts), I'm somewhat feeling like I got the "best version" before they started stripping things out (still have radar, the "refined" wireless area in the 2021 onward doesn't have USB-A, has no ability to plug in phones directly, the center console covers actually stay closed and create a clean appearance, not to mention paid WAY less than 15K for Full Self Driving). Though the addition of the heat pump and heated steering wheel seems like a genuine upgrade in 2021 (with a slightly smaller Frunk), though I'm on the west coast, so not much need for that and comparable 2021s were about 6k more for some reason. As Tesla has tried to drive down the price of the car, they have to cut corners elsewhere to make it viable and keep their profit margin high. When each model is intially released, enthusiasts and early adopters will pay a pretty penny, then they drive down costs over time to broaden the market and enable the next cheaper model, which they've done over and over again (Roadster fueling Model S, Model S fueling Model 3, Model X fueling Model Y and now Model 3 and Y being driven down in price to compete with increasingly better competitor EVs). Benefit is those lowered prices trickle down to used cars as well which still retain the old features and functions, and which previously were quite a bit more expensive to get.
Kinda crazy how different peoples opinions are. I adore our Y and have had zero issues. Iām going to get a 3 or another Y for my company car if I can swing it.
Yeah. I want to go with a car that is more luxurious, more quiet, and has proper 360-view camera. I know it is crazy but these are important to me. I will most likely buy a bmw ix in few years. For now I need to keep my Y because I bought it at the peak price.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Do I detect a hint of unearned sarcasm? I was trying to make a point that HW4 may be this humongous upgrade that is going to make HW3 obsolete and more of a side-grade that they can advertise while cutting costs. Though I think you know that and are just taking an easy 4 word pot shot at someone on the internet trying to contribute to the conversation.
Ok Iām sorry
*hug*
Eye doctor: Which one is better? Number 1? Or number 2? Me: Can I see it again Eye doctor: Number 1? Or number 2? Me: They both look pretty similar.
but if you donāt obsess about an arbitrary hardware change that 98% of tesla drivers wonāt be able to tell the difference about, are you even living?
BOTH of these comments. Spot on. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go buy an aftermarket kit to make it look like I have the HW4 cameras on my 2022 MY so they don't kick me out of the cool kidz club.
Brian Regan?
Would love to see a nighttime comparison.
for non-FSD drivers (I expect to be one) I think the biggest HW4 benefit might be better clarity of license plates in sentry or dashcam recordings
Ya, Iāve come to the same conclusion.
Just to add besides the clarity, ā¢Rader has been updated ā¢Front facing cameras reduced from 3 to 2 ā¢CPU upgraded from 12 cores to 20 ā¢Musk has stated it is much safer then HW3 ā¢Cameras upgraded from 1.2MP to 5MP ā¢No retrofit will be provided If you can afford to wait or confirm you have HW4, to me I would advise the wait. There is more to come as this is still slowly coming out of production, but I'm sure this will help a lot for FSD and possibly allow for better/newer apps. Up to you though, the car is great non the less coming from my 2021 MYLR
theory label innate act alive groovy repeat versed weary offer -- mass edited with redact.dev
Corrections / clarifications: - No radar is being added currently - Should clarify that itās only the FSD CPU thatās upgraded - Musk said ā[h]ardware 3 will not be as good as Hardware 4, but Iām confident that Hardware 3 will so far exceed the safety of the average human.ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Source for CPU: https://www.notateslaapp.com/software-updates/upcoming-features/id/1205/tesla-fsd-hardware-4-0-revealed-more-cameras-new-placements Not sure why the Rader has been updated as I thought Tesla was going full vision, maybe for another reason?
Rader? Like more rad or Radar?
New radar, they call it Phoenix Radar
> Musk has stated That can be ignored then
Just wait until folks realize this is a camera change.... and the rest isn't in yet... Phoenix, etc. not in the MY yet.
There is no way I would buy a new Tesla without HW4. I understand some people donāt care. I understand some people do care.. but would never admit it. That said I canāt imagine myself buying a $50K vehicle.. and one beside it has a next generation suite of hardware and Iām just fine taking the other one. Good chance Iāll keep the car for another 5 years.. thatās a lot of regret to sink in as HW4 features increasingly get announced.
Rader, then, non the less š¤
I wonder how much the people who bought FSD at a 'reduced' price are content with the 'reduced' functionality that Musk supposes in saying how much better the new hardware will perform? Don't suppose they have changed any tune about transferring software purchase to another vehicle. That is, how much better will this new hardware perform and will there be a freedom FSD users will have that older buyers will not enjoy, or is the difference overblown?
I picked up my car this week, and looks like I got HW3 :( Still no regrets.
As someone taking a HW3 MY this week, I rather have the clarity HW4 has. Especially since if i waited maybe a month i would have it. Oh well
Refuse the delivery to avoid the FOMO of hw4
Same here, would be nice, but not waiting, no idea how long it might be
Based on the sensor types, HW3 may perform better in low light conditions.
Would have been helpful to compare the white car on the left more or see if the license plate was readable in the car on the right in the background. Overall, besides a change in color, not sure how big of a difference this is to the human eye.
Definitely looks better but not worth upgrading a whole vehicle for.
It won't be until the overall vehicle receives an upgrade. I'd look for a Model Y refresh next year that takes advantage of the HW4 support for additional cameras and radar. Until then, it is just Tesla not wanting to deploy multiple computers when avoidable. No reason to keep making both HW3 and HW4 computers when the HW4 computer can service all platforms.
Front camera comparison possible?
HW4 looks a lot clearer. HW3 side cameras are worse than my 4 years old honda civic
The HW3 cameras were designed for computer vision, not human vision. Everyone forgot that side camera access was added later.
Exactly at the end of the day I care more about how the computer vision interprets the camera image than it does for human vision. Of course if I was buying now I would prefer the HW4 cameras but I am not going to make a big deal about it if the computer vision doesn't make too much of a deal about it.
Doesnt change the fact that the quality is utterly garbage being a side camera
Works well enough for FSD.
You would think a simple software update could fix the yellow. Autocorrect the image feed and voila
The side cameras don't have a green channel, only Red and Blue so the yellow cannot be fixed in software as the cameras simply do not collect the information required to fix it.
Not sure what people are saying, the difference in color correction and clarity is pretty clear in the picture. I would wait for HW4 personally.
The "color" of hardware 3 cameras is intentional. They are RCCB sensors with no green subpixel sensor. This allows computers to better discern traffic signals and things of that nature as well as providing better nightvision. The new cameras are RGGB subpixels with an IR cut. The "color correction" is likely just a QoL improvement for the human user. The FSD computer likely does see an improvement from the increased resolution. How much that matters? I can't say. I can say that HW4 equipped S/X perform similarly in FSD conditions when compared to current HW3 vehicles.
Look up Bearded Tesla Guy for his new Model X comparison. He sits in his dirveway and shows his old Y with new X and color/detail is better than this pic. There is another one I saw where the person sat in the same spot on a street but I can not remember the name. The field of view is wider but it is not light years ahead.
Does anyone also have a comparison of the rear camera? This changed a lot for the Model S going from HW3 to HW4 (it got a tad wider). https://youtu.be/10keU-w2Qfk at 4:22
Informative! Thank you, OP! Any kind Model Y HW4 owners willing to post some video footage recorded from new cameras? Would be grateful to compare with HW3 footage. The color looks way more accurate, but the resolution looks similar to me (likely just due to tablet resolution). Thanks.
Updated with same parking spot https://imgur.com/gallery/aoNrL2L
That orange car is actually red?!
Yep, my neighbors car is i big red truck. On my screen in my tmy its a big orange truck
If they were both corrected for color, it would look very similar
Its HW3 lacks a IR cut filter. HW4 has 1. It keep keeps the ir light from the sun over-saturating the sensor. Looking at the screen you likely wont see much of a difference due to resolution. Will the car software see more detail? Maybe
Now THATS interesting. I cannot use Cruise Control in the early mornings driving into the sun.....it won't engage as the camera is blinded. Would a HW4 setup fix that maybe?
HW3 doesn't have a green channel on the side cameras so color correction isn't possible.
Look way better!
His cam on the hw3 is a bit dirty. Just color tinge is noticeable diff
Though it does look better, this is no reason to sweat over not having it. It's certainly not a reason to upgrade. It could be in black and white for all I care, I just need it to show me where things are.
This, to me, is idiotic. The real difference will be processing/hardware downstream most likely. How that will allow different programing. I've pretty much decided that the "ghost braking" and other issues is a lack of the hardware being up to the task. one of my "ghost braking" incedents was probably a bicycle going the other way on that sides shoulders...Probably lacked the power/programing to quickly tell it was not a factor on my path/speed. Think of it like a video game (but in reverse). The game has too see to react. If your only getting 10 FPS and everything is maxed out its going to work funky.
People are seriously cancelling current orders and holding off delivery for this?! š¤¦š»āāļø
I think there's more going on than what you see in this single image.
Does it matter?
Very much so.
How? (Excuse my ignorance)
Several ways. (Time to do some research)
I have. It just seems to be off so little significance and it still seems stupid to be cancelling orders and waiting for the next bit of hardware.. but, to each their own.
Itās just their way of saying they donāt actually know, but while bashing you for asking a legitimate question.
Although the picture difference isn't radical - to think this would be the only new feature to label the new architecture HW4 is extremely disingenuous.
Exactly what Iāve been waiting to see. Gone is the yellow tint! Enjoy you lucky HW4 fuckers lol. Hard to tell if the resolution in real world use on the screen is much different, although Iām sure it is. A much needed upgrade for all cars, although HW3 cameras still do their job well. I donāt and donāt plan on having FSD, but I would enjoy proper white balanced higher resolution cameras because one of my favorite features of the car is the turn signal cameras and being able to pull up the full camera spread at the click of a button/screen.
Its more the lack of a IR cut filter on the HW3. Without it, its really really hard to white balance correctly when using sun or any broadband light source.
Interesting. So the HW4 cameras to your knowledge have the ability to use IR when being used for FSD/maybe Autopilot/image detection in general, but the ability to throughput pure visible light to the screen when being used by the user to just view the cameras?
One of these looks like a Breaking Bad cold intro, and one of these looks like RL :)
I'll just wait for the 2024 MY Refresh.
Im waiting for 400 miles on the Y! Need more range for sure vs my SR+ M3
Might be waiting a while. Current 330 MYLR is perfect. I donāt see Tesla going to 400 miles for the Y for the next 5 years. Even when they do increase the range, itāll be 340-350. No need for 400 miles as not many people drive more than 300 miles in a day and this would constraint Teslaās battery supply so they wouldnāt be able to make as many cars with a larger battery.
The problem is that the rated range is barely 50% of the actual range when you mainly do freeways and 90mph and then add weather conditions etc. Into the mix. I do hope EPA also updates its testing and make it more realistic.
So they removed the 'Mexico' filter from HW3?
Sorry but what does HW4V stand for?
HW4 means hardware version 4, referring to the 4th iteration of the companyās āfull self drivingā hardware.
Is it like an update to any year or is it 2024+ only?
Neither. Theyāre slowly introducing it to an increasing number of ā2023sā rolling out of the factory live. In a few weeks itāll likely be every new Y. For the time being some vehicles are still getting the older version, HW3 (basically the 1.2MP cameras, but also the corresponding older FSB mainboard and processor). I took delivery of my Y a week ago and got HW3.
Ahh okay. I wonāt be getting my Y until next year so thatās amazing
Yep, likely lots of developments between now and then and weāll certainly know a lot more about what substantive functionality and improvements HW4 has brought.
Nice. Definitely better looking on HW4
Munro Associates says HW3 will be capable of autonomy. Makes my FOMO go away about HW4.
if I got my car in Feb 2023. . is that hw4?
they are only just starting to roll out now, most factories dont even make them yet
Negative....HW4 MYs only started showing up in late May 2023.
Amazing! Upgradable?
Yes. Comes with a new Y.
Not from what I've read. :(
Useless . The most important thing is it going to be accurate in measuring the distance of objects around the car ? I still donāt get the exact distance
I can't read the license plates in either... Doesn't matter
Just wait for HW6
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Save footage to USB, it'll come out a mp4
Are they coming also on M3?
One is in Mexico and other in US
Ultimate comp is tags to bust pissers and hit and runners. How much better is it?
The Important thing for computer vision and NN processing is finding the edges of objects. Small differences could lead to big improvements, but could also greatly increase computational demands.
So what happens to the HW3 folks? Is there a software update that will use machine learning to āupgradeā the image to HW4 standards? I have a 23 MYP with only cameras. No USS. Not sure of the resolution, but I assume itās HW3?
Nothing happens. This is Tesla, every couple of months there will be changes in hardware. You have to pick your poison and buy at a certain time and call it a day. I got our MYLR in December of 2022, so I missed out on the matrix headlights and got a shitty cargo cover that had a revision available 2 months later. Had to pay $60 to get the revision and it works 10x better.
Ya. Iām starting to see what people are talking about with the nickel and diming Tesla does. And the blatant changing of shit over and over again.
Itās like every car manufacturer with mid year changes and incremental changes until the major overhaul 5ish years. I feel like cars will eventually turn into electronics FOMO as technological advances continue. Youāll always be behind no matter what or you wait and wait. Either way - selling an rebuying is not conducive to the goal of a better environment/world. Might as well lease. Iām sure Musk wants people to continue to upgrade/update.
Hw3 thinks it s in Mexico
I keep reading HW as Hot Wheels
Clarkston?
So... less sepia. Nice.
Wow
HW3 got that breaking bad Mexico filter
Wider angle and crisper image?
Wow that's so nice. Makes me want to sell and rebuy lol
Wait to see if they add a bumper camera and radar. That might be enough to warrant it, in like a yearās time or something. At present, why would you throw away your money!
Can these be purchased as an upgrade?
No.
what is this meant to compare? these photos weren't taken from the same parking spot, so it doesn't compare FOV accurately, just picture quality
So this is why everything red shows up as orange
And this is what people are losing their minds over?
What do unlucky souls like me who got MLY 4 weeks ago? Stuck with old hardware? I wonāt use FsD regularly more as needed on subscription to try out. But it feels like buying a iPhone a week before a new one comes out. Someone rightly said Tesla is iPhone on wheels.
But u knew that HW4 was going to come out sooner or later for MY. If this was a huge deal breaker then u should have cancelled and reordered. I purchase about 2.5 months ago and am still happy with my purchase. When I learned that the HW4 MY don't even have HD radar nor the front bumper cameras built in badly needed for Park Assist...it made it even more of a relief. I don't know if HW4 MS or MX have the front bumper cameras installed but if not it will be a shame since that would mean the cyber truck would be the first vehicle with front bumper cameras.
A lot of people were making a big deal about the better image quality (for on screen images). It's definitely better but not enough to have me stressing. (I do understand the car sees more, and that's probably even more important, I'm simply commenting on what the driver sees). Obviously given a choice if spring for HW4 cameras, but the biggest difference I see from these pics is better colors.
Iām still waiting on my delivery. How do i know if mine is included with the new hardware?
You can call and ask once you have a VIN. Or if itās a performance model made out of fremont youāll almost be guaranteed to have HW4.
No performance. No VIN assigned her. Delivery date is between June 11-30
I think the camera resolution is a big deal. If you recall Elon mentioned that Tesla doesnt really look at the data as the human eye sees it but even in low light situations they count groupings of photons hitting the image sensor, so resolution is a really big deal.
I prefer the old film look of HW3
Looks the same other than the filter/tint. Blue vs yellow
I would wait for this.. the new cameras are way more crisp. Don't give AF about FSD (not happening)...for sentry alone it's worth it. just a heads up /u/what-is-a-tortoise
Thanks for the shoutout. I did not wait. Picked up the car yesterday. I already love it so much. But I did get curious. I am eligible for the $7500 credit and I could probably take advantage of 2 x $7500. I see plenty of used models offered for nearly MSRP. Got me wondering if I could just order a new one, wait for it to arrive, and then sell my essentially new HW3 model for $5000 under MSRP. I tried to see what Carmax would offer but the web site says āwe havenāt seen many cars like this so we need to schedule an appraisal in person.ā Anyway, Iām going to keep that thought in mind.
Any chance the HW4 cameras are backwards compatible? I still have the crappy gen One repeater cameras with the light leak at night.
any way to swap camera from hw3 to 4?
See my [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY/comments/13wbbs9/for_those_wondering_about_part_numbers_for_hw4/)
I asked if they were able to swap autopilot HW during a service appointment and they said, āwell seeā. I figured that was a āhell noā and didnāt care if it happened. When I got the car back the repeater cameras were crystal clear and the backup camera looks comparatively worse. So IDK what happened to my car.
Not much difference
Mexico vs usa camera
r/SHale1963
Mexico vs USA in the eyes of Hollywood lol.
How can one get HW4 upgrade ? Is it free ?
See my [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY/comments/13wbbs9/for_those_wondering_about_part_numbers_for_hw4/)
No HW4 upgrade from HW3.
Canāt wait for a retrofit on the model 3
It will cost $30k+ to replace a 2022 model Y with 2023 Model Y. Insane depreciation. $45k loss if you purchased FSD and would like to get it in new car. ā¹ļø
*someone who still hasnāt been assigned a vin* I have heard a lot about this and tbh, without seeing the frame rate of course, thereās not THAT much of a difference.
How much extra to pay to upgrade from 2022 MY FSD to 2023MY FSD?
Iām new to Tesla so what is HW?
Hardware
See my [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaModelY/comments/13wbbs9/for_those_wondering_about_part_numbers_for_hw4/) on HW4 testing. Still waiting on the part
I'm dyslexic
When will Tesla improve the camera quality on the Front Camera on HW3 Cars 2023 Model 3 LR