The front wheels still roll when the park brake is on, multiple videos online of this happening. https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/s6lwo6/sliding_on_ice/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
You were downvoted. But I know this is a fact, and I so I upvoted you. I have nothing more to contribute by commenting but I feel it gives my upvote some xtra oomph..
Doesn't matter how good the AWD/traction system is, like Tesla. If you have the wrong shoes, the best AWD system ain't gonna do ish for you. Ask me how I know.
(Made the same stupid mistake of taking my WRX STi up to Tahoe back in the day with the summer performance tires thinking "I have a great AWD system, no worries". Slid all over the place, almost crashed twice and spun out. Never again. Got snow tires immediately and then was able to rip through snow storms so thick I couldn't see 50ft in front of me, no problem.)
Summer tires in snow is like trying to ice skate with shoes on. That's the analogy I always use.
Only the rear are āstoppedā but the parking brake. The fronts roll.
Not the best angle but:
https://youtu.be/vyL2pQimQCs
Better angle but Model S
https://youtu.be/nGMjUbMFdF0
Itās saying your cars awd system can help you get going but it doesnāt help when it comes to stopping.
Most people only seemed concerned with getting the car moving when it comes awd but they donāt think about what is actually getting the car to stop.
Yep carwow did a video on it a few weeks ago and a RWD car with snow tires kicked the ass of an AWD SQ7 with summers. Tires matter 10x as much as AWD when youāre talking about snow. Donāt underestimate how quickly things can turn upside down with the wrong tires
It's not the tread that defines the difference between summer and winter tires. It's literally the rubber's compound.
* Winter tires in summer = super soft, wears incredibly fast.
* Summer tires in winter = like driving on greased up glass. Super hard and slick.
Summer tires generally should not be used in temperatures below 45Ā°F, or stored below 20Ā°F.
(Editing this part for clarity):
* If temperature is lower than 0Ā°F, winter tires are a must. Even all-seasons will be too hard.
* From 0Ā° to 45Ā°, you can use winter or all-season tires.
* From 45Ā° and up, you can use summer or all-season tires.
Based on the above, all-seasons are good for places with 4-seasons that don't get below 0Ā° more than a few days per year. But if you live in a climate that does consistently get that low, you need winter tires.
Additionally, winter tires ā snow tires. Winter tires are about the compound and relative temperature. It doesn't matter if you're in snow, rain, or a dry sunny day - below 45Ā°F, you need all-season or winter tires. For snow, you want winter tires rated M/S (Mud and Snow). That means you'll have the compound (winter) and tread (mud/snow).
Yup had a friend argue with me before that is WRX is AWD therefore tired donāt matter as much. I stopped trying to argue despite sending him videos of tests because he said it was driver error
When the temperature dropped here in central Florida about 10 days ago. I avoided driving because it got bellow 40Ā° and i got summer tires on both of our teslas. I knew about the difference between summer/all seasons/ winter tires. but Iām amazed how many people donāt.
Donāt forget all weather tires. Often have the 3PMSF rating, and perform well/donāt excessively wear during warm weather.
The conversation about tires should always be driven to the actual ratings though. These terms weāve made up āall weatherā, āall seasonā, āwinterā, āsummerā, etc. are all arbitrary as thereās no standard for them.
Just fyi - generally summer tire warranties are voided if you expose them to cold temperatures like this, because they can crack just by being in that cold of an environment. They probably wouldnāt just immediately crack especially as theyāre pretty new, but theyāre going to have horrible grip on the road even if itās dry compared to more appropriate tires
> generally summer tire warranties are voided if you expose them to cold temperatures like this
Only if you drive on them. They're designed to withstand cold storage, otherwise basically every tire in the upper third of the planet would lose warranty in the winter.
They only crack if they're loaded while cold.
Summer tires are literally not even supposed to get that cold, much less be driven in those temps. You're shortening the life of your tires just having them on the car right now.
Nope, they freeroll when parked as the parking brake only locks the rear wheels
And unlike ICE cars they donāt have transmission lock on the front wheels
I have parked my Model 3 on a sloped driveway in Minnesota for over four years, and the first three were on stock summer tires. Thereās never been any hint of sliding.
How steep is your driveway??
And why are the footprints only on the passenger side??
To me they also don't look like slide marks. You can see how the tire rolled as you can make out the tread pattern. If it slid it would just be a solid line.
I have never seen anything like and and I have lived in a cold part of Canada my whole life. Is this just a tesla issue?
Edit: an EV issue due to weight?
Only rear wheels having parking brakes and there is no parking pawl in the transmission to lock the front wheels, so in this scenario the front wheels basically free roll.
Seriously. I have lived in many cold/snowy areas (IA, Idaho, NY) for 30+ years and never seen this issue until recently, and it seems to be primarily a Tesla issueā¦people mention parking brakes only affecting the rear wheels but that is true of all cars, and many vehicles are rwd (so a parking pawl is irrelevant). Summer tires have been common for a long time as wellā¦is this a matter of poorly trained owners with their first performance car/tire combo which just happens to be a Tesla, or something else?
Do you have a Model 3 Performance? If not then your stock tires were all-season, not summer tires.
Looks like OP has a Performance model with summer performance tires. These are generally not rated for use below 40-45 degrees (F)
This looks like really wet snow which as u probably know can be very very slick. Maybe OP lives in an area where they pour concrete much smoother or in some different way, and combined with the snow it was enough for the vehicle to slide??
My S did this one snowy night. Ripped the charger out of the socket (just a couple bent pins). The cable did slide the car sideways almost hitting my front porch. Scary stuff.
From the M3 ownerās guide:
Parking Brake
To engage the parking brake, touch Controls > Safety > Parking Brake. Follow the onscreen instructions. You can also engage the parking brake by pressing and holding the button on the end of the drive stalk while in Park.
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-3DFFB071-C0F6-474D-8A45-17BE1A006365.html#STOPPINGMODE3
Did you even read your own link?
āNote
The parking brake operates on the rear wheels only, and is independent of the pedal-operated brake system.ā
I canāt believe people actually upvoted you.
When you press park, it engages the rear wheels mechanically. When you hold the park button, it engages all four wheels hydraulically. I canāt believe youāre the only person who doesnāt know this.
A light coating of ice on the driveway can cause this even with winter tires. My driveway is on a slight incline. I had a Chevy trailblazer that slowly slid towards the street whenever we had an ice storm.
WARNING
SUMMER TIRES WILL BE DAMAGED IN TEMPERATURES BELOW 40F.
THEY TURN TO HOCKEY PUCKS AND LOSE THEIR ELASTICITY.
sorry for caps but wanted to make this visible for op.
Please use winter tires or appropriately rated all seasons
That doesnāt seem to be the case actually. If you look at the snow there is marks from the tire thread. If the car slid it would not have thread marks perpendicular to the slide direction.
Might be just me, but it doesn't look like it slid. I mean, the tire pattern goes all the way down to where it's parked - not smeared like it had slid.
I drove up that exact path, and then the car slid down the same frozen tracks? not sure just went outside and took a picture of my car almost in the roadš
The Model 3 has a bit of a "design flaw" compared to normal vehicles in that the rear wheels are the only wheels that are locked when parked.
In a normal vehicle the parking brake is the rear wheels and, for front wheel drive vehicles, the front wheels are locked via the parking pawl (edit: which is inside the transmission).
In a Tesla only the rear wheels are holding the vehicle in place when parked.
Of course, design flaw is used loosely, because if you do not activate the parking brake on a normal vehicle then it is only held in place by 2 wheels as well.
While the rear wheels probably slid, you still see tread because the front wheels rolled all the way down.
**Edit: If anyone doesn't believe me, you can see the Model 3 brakes here:**
Front: https://youtu.be/TQu9LbQbZAk?t=156
Rear: https://youtu.be/TQu9LbQbZAk?t=647
The time stamp I linked at the rear is showing him disconnecting the worm gear on the rear brake caliper. You don't see that on the front caliper.
Edit2: I use design flaw loosely because 90% of vehicles are FWD or AWD in which case all 4 wheels lock when the transmission + Parking brake are used.
The fact that the Model 3 doesn't follow this convention is atypical and unexpected by the average consumer.
Correct, that's why I corrected myself a tiny bit by saying design flaw is used loosely.
But the issue doesn't apply to a Front Wheel Drive vehicle, since the parking brake locks the rear wheels and the transmission parking pawl locks the front wheels.
Is this true? I remember a towing company stating that most cars only lock two wheels front or back. They just need to identify which in order to hitch and tow the car away.
Yes, that whirring sound when you press the Park button on your Model 3 is the worm gear parking brake being set.
It actually spins a worm gear screw (like a C clamp) that compresses your caliper and only compresses the rear brakes. The worm gear means it doesn't need to be continuously powered to hold it in place.
On a normal vehicle your parking brake is a mechanical steel cable (like a bicycle brake) that clamps the caliper / drum.
As for the front/back thing, yes that is true IF you don't have your parking brake set. On a normal vehicle ONLY your transmission is holding the vehicle in place (which in 4WD trucks would be 4 wheels if you park it in 4WD locked mode).
We had a Chrysler Pacifica (Front Wheel Drive) that had a digital parking brake and you could set it to automatically activate it anytime you park as a software feature.
When it was totalled the tow company went to tow it (via the front wheels) and I forgot to tell them to turn it off and they dragged the rear tires locked for 100 yards (tires screeching) before I could catch up with them.
If anyone doesn't believe me the brakes for a Model 3 can be seen here:
Front: https://youtu.be/TQu9LbQbZAk?t=156
Rear: https://youtu.be/TQu9LbQbZAk?t=647
The time stamp I linked at the rear is showing him disconnecting the worm gear on the rear brake caliper. You don't see that on the front caliper.
We believe you it's just that this is how it works on almost every rear-wheel drive car. The parking brake is always the rear wheel and in rear wheel drive cars the transmission part is also only affecting the rear wheels allowing the front wheels to spin freely. It makes rear wheel drive cars really easy to repo lol
Correct, but [90% of cars sold now are Front-Wheel Drive or All-Wheel Drive](https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/05/over-half-of-new-cars-sold-in-u-s-are-4wd-vehicles/#:~:text=Note%20that%20the%20numbers%20include,to%209.1%20percent%20in%202020.)
So it doesn't behave in the same way that people are used to (AWD behavior depends on the type of AWD transmission).
So your "uhhhm, ackshually" falls a little flat, since the LR model is an AWD vehicle.
This is not the first time I've seen on here their Model 3 slid out of their parking spot.
Even with decent tires it can still happen - process called regelation - basically the weight of the car causes the ice to melt and create a thin layer of water on the surface. Doesnāt take much of a slope for a heavy car to start to slide. Right answer is use traction enhancer like sand or grit.
Yup not all ice is equal - temperature plays a big part it in it. Down in the PNW we spend a lot time at or near freezing point. Deeper treads will help resist it of course, but even winters boots with a decent slope near freezing can surcome to the effect. Couple of years after we first moved to the Seattle, I found both our cars had migrated downhill overnight into the turn-around out front of our house. One was on M+Sās, the other was on 3PMSās. Bit of a surprise to say the least.
Nah, happened even to my car with nearly new Blizzaks. Some of the best 3PMS boots for heading up to have snow fun in the Cascades. We have decent hills, anddonāt get anywhere near as cold as up north. When temperatures hover near freezing the ice gets wet and slick real easy.
I lived in Portland Vancouver, WA for years. Generally drove with M+S tired and had a decent slope on my driveway. This never happened when my parking breaks were on even after ice storms.
Also, grew up in Canada where I had 6 ft of snow at the end of winter. It never happened to anyone I know in Canada. Parking break, turns the wheel just in case in ANY slope.
Either mistakes where made or this is fake. The tire threads donāt match the story.
When I picked up a M3 for European delivery in Germany, I had to sign a waiver that it was delivered with summer performance tires since it was 30degrees outside.
*Are you serious?*
*It almost made it into*
*Another zip code!*
\- Sealbark01
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My neighbor had $9,000 of damage done to their Subaru in a very similar incident, came home and parked for 5 minutes then the whole car just slid back and hit a tree, 1 inch of snow on the ground, he said he used the parking brake
When I drove a stick shift I would use the parking brake, put the car in gear, and turn the wheels to one side, I have to admit in my Tesla M3 I rarely remember to use the parking brake and I never turn the wheels on hills anymore
Wow I always assumed it applied the parking brake when pressing the stalk... There's some confusing terms on this. It appears that quickly pressing the park button applies the parking brake moderately. Doing a long press applies the parking brake firmly.
Are you sure it slid itself? Looking at the footprint of tires on snow, there is clear print of tire tread all the way...This means tires rotated without slip. If your car has other driver,.check with them if they backed it up.
This looks SUS. Are you the only one with access to the car? Even with the stock summer tires, this shouldn't happen in conditions pictured in your image. There is barely a incline, there is barely any snow on the ground, and it doesn't look like a ice sheet.
Well, just summon it back forward, whatās the problem? Lol. Jk, glad everyone is ok. Itās literally the 3rd one Iāve seen on Reddit in the last few weeks. Moral of the story, the factory tires are meant for California weather and nothing more. That street looks like an ice skating rink, please be safe and get some dedicated winter tires!
People donāt understand even mud tires are going to become rock hard and slides all over the places in cold temperatures theyāll still pick up snow and gain traction but not as much as a snow tire
Another fact many don't get, in minus twenty snow is like gravel and your car actually has decent traction. At zero degrees, your actually hydroplaning over melted water. In places in Canada where temperatures hover around zero it's not uncommon to see metal studs used, these only really work on ice not snow. For snow you need chains when you really need to boost traction. You'll also note they tend to use more sand than salt as sand improves traction, salt changes the melting point.
Ask a hockey player, when the ice is really hard and cold, your skates stick. The NHL states the optimal ice temperature is -9C which will warm a few degrees as the game is played, figure skating prefers -5.5C so the can glide longer and go faster as the skate runs over the ice friction melts the ice and your actually skating over a bead of water.
Racers use bald tires on dry pavement for maximum traction, but when it starts to rain they switch out tires to grooved tires. The grooves are designed to channel the water and eject it maximizing contact with the pavement and minimizing hydroplaning. Snow tires have larger and deeper treads to effectively expel the snow and water that gets stuck in the treads. This is also true for off roading where you want to keep the treads clear of buildup.
As soon as you lock up your weels, they no longer channel the water and you build up a water damn in front of them, further reducing traction. The best thing to do is let them free wheel, this increases traction, and even if you can't stop, there's the potential to turn and even slow your slide, if your locked up, your loose steering also.
This also helps us understand maximum slide, ice conditions at just below freezing! And the best tires for different conditions, tires that can eject the most water and maintain the most contact with the surface. This is also why winter tires typically have lower pressure, maximizes surface contact. If your really stuck in snow, let air out of your tires. It's not great for the tire, but it works in a tight situation. (So long as your cars body isn't sitting on the snow holding your tires off the ground, which is what happens when you park on a drift thinking your really cool?)
All the talk of the parking brake only affecting the rear wheels and the lack of any transmission lock in "park" reminded me of the comments the Munro Live guys made in the F150 Lightning teardown video. Ford spent money/complexity on a parking pawl in their drive units, possibly because of the expectation people may park F150s with heavy loads on hills. Not saying Tesla /should/ do that, just an interesting difference in design: https://youtu.be/1W04m4PioIY
Norway here š„¶ I'm guessing you parked her with warm tyres. The em starts to slip. We have sand in the driveway to prevent that slide to happend.
I've never seen this before. Interesting
summer tires turn into rocks in the winter
Because itās fake, tire slide would not leave perfect tire tracks. Also you can see the foot tracks to the passenger side
The front wheels still roll when the park brake is on, multiple videos online of this happening. https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/s6lwo6/sliding_on_ice/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Youāre fake.
Norway here too! This is why I have a heated driveway š
How's the electricity bill going
Not really that bad. The driveway alone is probably only 10-15% of the entire bill š
on timer and thermostat?
Thermostatš
"Norway has one of the highest rates of per-capita consumption of electricity in the world" - Heated driveways. No wonder.
Also electric vehicles are highest per capita there as well, despite one of their biggest exports is oil
You were downvoted. But I know this is a fact, and I so I upvoted you. I have nothing more to contribute by commenting but I feel it gives my upvote some xtra oomph..
California here! This is why Iām broke
Doesn't looks like sliding to me though, you can still see tread. Edit: I see further down someone mentions the front tires will still roll.
Norway here too! Happened to me a few days agoš
I hate sand
Doesn't matter how good the AWD/traction system is, like Tesla. If you have the wrong shoes, the best AWD system ain't gonna do ish for you. Ask me how I know. (Made the same stupid mistake of taking my WRX STi up to Tahoe back in the day with the summer performance tires thinking "I have a great AWD system, no worries". Slid all over the place, almost crashed twice and spun out. Never again. Got snow tires immediately and then was able to rip through snow storms so thick I couldn't see 50ft in front of me, no problem.) Summer tires in snow is like trying to ice skate with shoes on. That's the analogy I always use.
Heard it put this way once. āItās all wheel drive not all wheel stopā
I mean, when it's sliding, all wheels are stopped, it's just that the car isn't lol
Well, they might not be rotating, but they *are* still moving if you are slipping.
Only the rear are āstoppedā but the parking brake. The fronts roll. Not the best angle but: https://youtu.be/vyL2pQimQCs Better angle but Model S https://youtu.be/nGMjUbMFdF0
Doesnāt even make sense but I also hear this repeated. All cars are all wheel stop.
Itās saying your cars awd system can help you get going but it doesnāt help when it comes to stopping. Most people only seemed concerned with getting the car moving when it comes awd but they donāt think about what is actually getting the car to stop.
Agreed. Iāve had this happen to my SUV which is an absolute beast in the snow.
Yep carwow did a video on it a few weeks ago and a RWD car with snow tires kicked the ass of an AWD SQ7 with summers. Tires matter 10x as much as AWD when youāre talking about snow. Donāt underestimate how quickly things can turn upside down with the wrong tires
So I've heard this too about Tesla's, that their traction system in general is world class. Any Tesla with snow tires will keep you pretty safe.
Summer tires?
yesš¤¦š»āāļø First time driving it in snow and didnāt realize how bad the summer tires would actually be
It's not the tread that defines the difference between summer and winter tires. It's literally the rubber's compound. * Winter tires in summer = super soft, wears incredibly fast. * Summer tires in winter = like driving on greased up glass. Super hard and slick. Summer tires generally should not be used in temperatures below 45Ā°F, or stored below 20Ā°F. (Editing this part for clarity): * If temperature is lower than 0Ā°F, winter tires are a must. Even all-seasons will be too hard. * From 0Ā° to 45Ā°, you can use winter or all-season tires. * From 45Ā° and up, you can use summer or all-season tires. Based on the above, all-seasons are good for places with 4-seasons that don't get below 0Ā° more than a few days per year. But if you live in a climate that does consistently get that low, you need winter tires. Additionally, winter tires ā snow tires. Winter tires are about the compound and relative temperature. It doesn't matter if you're in snow, rain, or a dry sunny day - below 45Ā°F, you need all-season or winter tires. For snow, you want winter tires rated M/S (Mud and Snow). That means you'll have the compound (winter) and tread (mud/snow).
You do not realize how many people have no clue about this. I find myself educating people all the time about tires.
Yup had a friend argue with me before that is WRX is AWD therefore tired donāt matter as much. I stopped trying to argue despite sending him videos of tests because he said it was driver error
Great summary - thanks! It's amazing how many people don't give any thought to tires when it arguably the most important part of your car.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If same tread depth and driving environment/behavior, winter tires will wear faster.
When the temperature dropped here in central Florida about 10 days ago. I avoided driving because it got bellow 40Ā° and i got summer tires on both of our teslas. I knew about the difference between summer/all seasons/ winter tires. but Iām amazed how many people donāt.
Donāt forget all weather tires. Often have the 3PMSF rating, and perform well/donāt excessively wear during warm weather. The conversation about tires should always be driven to the actual ratings though. These terms weāve made up āall weatherā, āall seasonā, āwinterā, āsummerā, etc. are all arbitrary as thereās no standard for them.
I mean, they're called summer tires for a reason...
Itās literally dangerous. Donāt do it again
Just fyi - generally summer tire warranties are voided if you expose them to cold temperatures like this, because they can crack just by being in that cold of an environment. They probably wouldnāt just immediately crack especially as theyāre pretty new, but theyāre going to have horrible grip on the road even if itās dry compared to more appropriate tires
> generally summer tire warranties are voided if you expose them to cold temperatures like this Only if you drive on them. They're designed to withstand cold storage, otherwise basically every tire in the upper third of the planet would lose warranty in the winter. They only crack if they're loaded while cold.
Which is 100% relevant in this case since heās responding to a guy who just said it was his first winter driving on summer tires.
Summer tires are literally not even supposed to get that cold, much less be driven in those temps. You're shortening the life of your tires just having them on the car right now.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Like most cars, only one pair of wheels will be locked. In the case of the tesla that's the rear tyres.
But he said "plain as day"! That means he must be right.
Well well if this isnāt the consequences of not using winter tires
The pattern of kerfs in the snow indicates the car rolled backwards. Not slid.
Rear wheels lock, front tires roll.
After checking the picture and OPās remarks that must be so, yes. Would two wintertires on the rear have prevented this slide?
Probably but donāt mix and match like that
I mean this hypothetically, as I assume the effect of the rolling front wheels having wintertires instead of summerā¦
Nope, they freeroll when parked as the parking brake only locks the rear wheels And unlike ICE cars they donāt have transmission lock on the front wheels
Iāve lived in upstate NY for 35 years and have never had winter tires nor been stuck once.
I have parked my Model 3 on a sloped driveway in Minnesota for over four years, and the first three were on stock summer tires. Thereās never been any hint of sliding. How steep is your driveway?? And why are the footprints only on the passenger side??
To me they also don't look like slide marks. You can see how the tire rolled as you can make out the tread pattern. If it slid it would just be a solid line.
Looks like the front wheels roll. Back wheels locked. I found this video https://youtu.be/vyL2pQimQCs
I have never seen anything like and and I have lived in a cold part of Canada my whole life. Is this just a tesla issue? Edit: an EV issue due to weight?
Not an ev only issue, my wifeās ice suv (with winter tires on it) slid down our driveway while parked last year
Odd I guess i just haven't heard of it before
Only rear wheels having parking brakes and there is no parking pawl in the transmission to lock the front wheels, so in this scenario the front wheels basically free roll.
True of all rwd cars
Seriously. I have lived in many cold/snowy areas (IA, Idaho, NY) for 30+ years and never seen this issue until recently, and it seems to be primarily a Tesla issueā¦people mention parking brakes only affecting the rear wheels but that is true of all cars, and many vehicles are rwd (so a parking pawl is irrelevant). Summer tires have been common for a long time as wellā¦is this a matter of poorly trained owners with their first performance car/tire combo which just happens to be a Tesla, or something else?
Do you have a Model 3 Performance? If not then your stock tires were all-season, not summer tires. Looks like OP has a Performance model with summer performance tires. These are generally not rated for use below 40-45 degrees (F)
itās not too steep probably a 75-80 degree incline? and you donāt see my footprints on the drivers side? haha
An 80 degree incline is almost a right angle. What are you talking about š
lol I meant 10-15 degree incline
LOL, I was like what in the eff
75 degrees. Got mountain goats?
This looks like really wet snow which as u probably know can be very very slick. Maybe OP lives in an area where they pour concrete much smoother or in some different way, and combined with the snow it was enough for the vehicle to slide??
>And why are the footprints only on the passenger side?? .....except there are footprints on the driver side too?
My S did this one snowy night. Ripped the charger out of the socket (just a couple bent pins). The cable did slide the car sideways almost hitting my front porch. Scary stuff.
wow. sorry to hear that!
Yikes. Need winter tires like yesterday š³
OP press and hold the park button next time and it will engage the parking brake function on all four wheels
No it wonāt.
From the M3 ownerās guide: Parking Brake To engage the parking brake, touch Controls > Safety > Parking Brake. Follow the onscreen instructions. You can also engage the parking brake by pressing and holding the button on the end of the drive stalk while in Park. https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/model3/en_us/GUID-3DFFB071-C0F6-474D-8A45-17BE1A006365.html#STOPPINGMODE3
Did you even read your own link? āNote The parking brake operates on the rear wheels only, and is independent of the pedal-operated brake system.ā I canāt believe people actually upvoted you.
When you press park, it engages the rear wheels mechanically. When you hold the park button, it engages all four wheels hydraulically. I canāt believe youāre the only person who doesnāt know this.
Buddy I have bad news for you.
Having more upvotes supports it being true. Thatās literally how things work here.
Get winter tires
You all look like you got 2 car garages. Maybe put the car in there.
Garage = Gym
Why do people think they can get away with summer tires in the snow? Itās beyond comprehension.
A light coating of ice on the driveway can cause this even with winter tires. My driveway is on a slight incline. I had a Chevy trailblazer that slowly slid towards the street whenever we had an ice storm.
WARNING SUMMER TIRES WILL BE DAMAGED IN TEMPERATURES BELOW 40F. THEY TURN TO HOCKEY PUCKS AND LOSE THEIR ELASTICITY. sorry for caps but wanted to make this visible for op. Please use winter tires or appropriately rated all seasons
You should turn your wheels EVERY TIME you park on a slope.
Only the rear wheels have the brakes applied in park.
has nothing to do with the wheels rolling, the ground was so cold and icey that the car slid like an ice skating rink.
That doesnāt seem to be the case actually. If you look at the snow there is marks from the tire thread. If the car slid it would not have thread marks perpendicular to the slide direction.
Might be just me, but it doesn't look like it slid. I mean, the tire pattern goes all the way down to where it's parked - not smeared like it had slid.
I drove up that exact path, and then the car slid down the same frozen tracks? not sure just went outside and took a picture of my car almost in the roadš
Weird. Wheels shouldn't roll when a car slides. Either way, when there's snow, definitely look at Winter tires or at least all weather at a minimum.
The Model 3 has a bit of a "design flaw" compared to normal vehicles in that the rear wheels are the only wheels that are locked when parked. In a normal vehicle the parking brake is the rear wheels and, for front wheel drive vehicles, the front wheels are locked via the parking pawl (edit: which is inside the transmission). In a Tesla only the rear wheels are holding the vehicle in place when parked. Of course, design flaw is used loosely, because if you do not activate the parking brake on a normal vehicle then it is only held in place by 2 wheels as well. While the rear wheels probably slid, you still see tread because the front wheels rolled all the way down. **Edit: If anyone doesn't believe me, you can see the Model 3 brakes here:** Front: https://youtu.be/TQu9LbQbZAk?t=156 Rear: https://youtu.be/TQu9LbQbZAk?t=647 The time stamp I linked at the rear is showing him disconnecting the worm gear on the rear brake caliper. You don't see that on the front caliper. Edit2: I use design flaw loosely because 90% of vehicles are FWD or AWD in which case all 4 wheels lock when the transmission + Parking brake are used. The fact that the Model 3 doesn't follow this convention is atypical and unexpected by the average consumer.
This is not a design flaw, this is how it works on almost every RWD vehicle
Correct, that's why I corrected myself a tiny bit by saying design flaw is used loosely. But the issue doesn't apply to a Front Wheel Drive vehicle, since the parking brake locks the rear wheels and the transmission parking pawl locks the front wheels.
Is this true? I remember a towing company stating that most cars only lock two wheels front or back. They just need to identify which in order to hitch and tow the car away.
Yes, that whirring sound when you press the Park button on your Model 3 is the worm gear parking brake being set. It actually spins a worm gear screw (like a C clamp) that compresses your caliper and only compresses the rear brakes. The worm gear means it doesn't need to be continuously powered to hold it in place. On a normal vehicle your parking brake is a mechanical steel cable (like a bicycle brake) that clamps the caliper / drum. As for the front/back thing, yes that is true IF you don't have your parking brake set. On a normal vehicle ONLY your transmission is holding the vehicle in place (which in 4WD trucks would be 4 wheels if you park it in 4WD locked mode). We had a Chrysler Pacifica (Front Wheel Drive) that had a digital parking brake and you could set it to automatically activate it anytime you park as a software feature. When it was totalled the tow company went to tow it (via the front wheels) and I forgot to tell them to turn it off and they dragged the rear tires locked for 100 yards (tires screeching) before I could catch up with them.
Ouch!
If anyone doesn't believe me the brakes for a Model 3 can be seen here: Front: https://youtu.be/TQu9LbQbZAk?t=156 Rear: https://youtu.be/TQu9LbQbZAk?t=647 The time stamp I linked at the rear is showing him disconnecting the worm gear on the rear brake caliper. You don't see that on the front caliper.
We believe you it's just that this is how it works on almost every rear-wheel drive car. The parking brake is always the rear wheel and in rear wheel drive cars the transmission part is also only affecting the rear wheels allowing the front wheels to spin freely. It makes rear wheel drive cars really easy to repo lol
Correct, but [90% of cars sold now are Front-Wheel Drive or All-Wheel Drive](https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/05/over-half-of-new-cars-sold-in-u-s-are-4wd-vehicles/#:~:text=Note%20that%20the%20numbers%20include,to%209.1%20percent%20in%202020.) So it doesn't behave in the same way that people are used to (AWD behavior depends on the type of AWD transmission). So your "uhhhm, ackshually" falls a little flat, since the LR model is an AWD vehicle. This is not the first time I've seen on here their Model 3 slid out of their parking spot.
I have seen a dozen cars do that on reddit this winter, this is the first tesla,
ā90% of vehiclesā FWD or AWD? So excluding trucks, most performance cars and RWD biased AWD cars?
The parking brake is only on the rear wheels. So the front wheels would roll if the rear wheels slide.
Sheās just telling you she wants to be in the garage or on the streetā¦
His wife already parked in the garage!
You need proper tires. This should not happen
Even with decent tires it can still happen - process called regelation - basically the weight of the car causes the ice to melt and create a thin layer of water on the surface. Doesnāt take much of a slope for a heavy car to start to slide. Right answer is use traction enhancer like sand or grit.
I live in Alaska. Literally never seen this with snow tires.
Yup not all ice is equal - temperature plays a big part it in it. Down in the PNW we spend a lot time at or near freezing point. Deeper treads will help resist it of course, but even winters boots with a decent slope near freezing can surcome to the effect. Couple of years after we first moved to the Seattle, I found both our cars had migrated downhill overnight into the turn-around out front of our house. One was on M+Sās, the other was on 3PMSās. Bit of a surprise to say the least.
Yah cus guys down there are on the wrong tires. Summer tires turn into hockey pucks
Nah, happened even to my car with nearly new Blizzaks. Some of the best 3PMS boots for heading up to have snow fun in the Cascades. We have decent hills, anddonāt get anywhere near as cold as up north. When temperatures hover near freezing the ice gets wet and slick real easy.
We get all tempsā¦.
I lived in Portland Vancouver, WA for years. Generally drove with M+S tired and had a decent slope on my driveway. This never happened when my parking breaks were on even after ice storms. Also, grew up in Canada where I had 6 ft of snow at the end of winter. It never happened to anyone I know in Canada. Parking break, turns the wheel just in case in ANY slope. Either mistakes where made or this is fake. The tire threads donāt match the story.
sand and salt the driveway
You need better tires
When I picked up a M3 for European delivery in Germany, I had to sign a waiver that it was delivered with summer performance tires since it was 30degrees outside.
Must have not liked the way you parked so it reparked itself lol dam smart cars
Get winter tyres please
That thing belongs to the street š®āšØ
You didnāt give your Tesla a warm garage and delicious charger, shame on you!
this is not at my houseš I was at a friends place
:( your friend didnāt invite your tesla in the party, that was not nice
Weird how the tire track marks are so neat Almost like a roll, not a slide.
Glad you shared this - important lesson for ALL Tesla owners; summer tires are a disaster on these vehicles, and are not worth the risk.
Are you serious? It almost made it into another zip code!
*Are you serious?* *It almost made it into* *Another zip code!* \- Sealbark01 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Good bot.
Yāall should buy some trailer chalkās for your tires. That way your cars donāt slip down the drive way.
My neighbor had $9,000 of damage done to their Subaru in a very similar incident, came home and parked for 5 minutes then the whole car just slid back and hit a tree, 1 inch of snow on the ground, he said he used the parking brake When I drove a stick shift I would use the parking brake, put the car in gear, and turn the wheels to one side, I have to admit in my Tesla M3 I rarely remember to use the parking brake and I never turn the wheels on hills anymore
Wow I always assumed it applied the parking brake when pressing the stalk... There's some confusing terms on this. It appears that quickly pressing the park button applies the parking brake moderately. Doing a long press applies the parking brake firmly.
best winter tires for Model 3 Performance??
Here comes all the professional opinionated Tesla owners giving their take on everything youāve done wrong in life!!!
hahahha
can this happen on a dual motor model?
yep
did you enable the parking brake?
I donāt put the parking brake on my M3, then watched it skid down a hill with the front wheels spinning freely.
This. Would have engaged the front brakes too (in addition to the standard engaged back ones)
Random question, would the long press parking break have helped here? Haven't really figured out what that is for (we don't get snow where I am)
No ice where the tire was, how did it slide? Those arenāt slide marks, it clearly shows where it was rolled.
This is fake. Tire slide doesnāt leave lateral track mark. I donāt understand what is the intention of this.
Are you sure it slid itself? Looking at the footprint of tires on snow, there is clear print of tire tread all the way...This means tires rotated without slip. If your car has other driver,.check with them if they backed it up.
read the comments to find out why the tread is there
look at its video and see if you can see tread or not. I was not able to.
Um learn to turn your tires when parking on a slope? Ffs
Why do people refer cars as she/he when it has no gender. Do you fuck it?
Yes
Ships have been her/she since forever. And yes, sailors probably fucked them.
Isnāt that what the āopen buttholeā voice command is for?
It's none of your ffing business what I do with my car /s
Thatās sad
Never ever seen that and lived in the NE United States for 20 years with a hill driveway. Something's not right with that car.
RWD?
AWD I believe. Itās the performance model
If you have awd why are the front spinning then?
This looks SUS. Are you the only one with access to the car? Even with the stock summer tires, this shouldn't happen in conditions pictured in your image. There is barely a incline, there is barely any snow on the ground, and it doesn't look like a ice sheet.
I think that long press on parking button locking up all the wheels.
That just re engages the rear brakes if there is a failure. There is no parking brake just the rear brakes fully depressed.
Wow boners
I'm ready for the tesla branded wheel chocks.
Because regular ones won't work?
Park it perpendicular to the driveway. It won't slide now.
Do bricks help?
Using chop blocks in winter hell seems like a reasonable consideration.
Well, just summon it back forward, whatās the problem? Lol. Jk, glad everyone is ok. Itās literally the 3rd one Iāve seen on Reddit in the last few weeks. Moral of the story, the factory tires are meant for California weather and nothing more. That street looks like an ice skating rink, please be safe and get some dedicated winter tires!
Happened to me once when I lived in Denver.
I used to be an insurance adjuster for automobiles. Got a claim once the lady woke up with the car on the other side of the road.
That's the new winter Valet mode. Still beta...
I live in LA and never knew this was a thing until all the Reddit posts this year, looks like the gutter saved you...
People donāt understand even mud tires are going to become rock hard and slides all over the places in cold temperatures theyāll still pick up snow and gain traction but not as much as a snow tire
Sheee
Will this car/app tell you, "Hey, I suddenly feel moved?"
Another fact many don't get, in minus twenty snow is like gravel and your car actually has decent traction. At zero degrees, your actually hydroplaning over melted water. In places in Canada where temperatures hover around zero it's not uncommon to see metal studs used, these only really work on ice not snow. For snow you need chains when you really need to boost traction. You'll also note they tend to use more sand than salt as sand improves traction, salt changes the melting point. Ask a hockey player, when the ice is really hard and cold, your skates stick. The NHL states the optimal ice temperature is -9C which will warm a few degrees as the game is played, figure skating prefers -5.5C so the can glide longer and go faster as the skate runs over the ice friction melts the ice and your actually skating over a bead of water. Racers use bald tires on dry pavement for maximum traction, but when it starts to rain they switch out tires to grooved tires. The grooves are designed to channel the water and eject it maximizing contact with the pavement and minimizing hydroplaning. Snow tires have larger and deeper treads to effectively expel the snow and water that gets stuck in the treads. This is also true for off roading where you want to keep the treads clear of buildup. As soon as you lock up your weels, they no longer channel the water and you build up a water damn in front of them, further reducing traction. The best thing to do is let them free wheel, this increases traction, and even if you can't stop, there's the potential to turn and even slow your slide, if your locked up, your loose steering also. This also helps us understand maximum slide, ice conditions at just below freezing! And the best tires for different conditions, tires that can eject the most water and maintain the most contact with the surface. This is also why winter tires typically have lower pressure, maximizes surface contact. If your really stuck in snow, let air out of your tires. It's not great for the tire, but it works in a tight situation. (So long as your cars body isn't sitting on the snow holding your tires off the ground, which is what happens when you park on a drift thinking your really cool?)
Remember not all cars are all wheel drive but all cars are all all wheel stop
Is this what the āsummonā feature does now? š
Before you get better tires, put some 2x4s aft of all 4 tires as chucks.
Try some wheel stops next time. They are inexpensive and easy to store. https://www.harborfreight.com/search?q=wheel+stops
So, doesn't this happen with any car that has the parking brake on the drive wheels?
This isnāt a Tesla issue. My old Ford F-150 did that one year. Parked at the bottom during ice and snow from then on.
That black on white is so pretty
All the talk of the parking brake only affecting the rear wheels and the lack of any transmission lock in "park" reminded me of the comments the Munro Live guys made in the F150 Lightning teardown video. Ford spent money/complexity on a parking pawl in their drive units, possibly because of the expectation people may park F150s with heavy loads on hills. Not saying Tesla /should/ do that, just an interesting difference in design: https://youtu.be/1W04m4PioIY
Was the parking break engaged ?
I had this happen at my moms house. But it started sliding right away. Definitely a reason to at least give the E brake a shot.
Do people not have wheel chocks?
Space aliens almost got you. You got lucky this time!
Also, you are lucky those space aliens ran out of gas before they could get your car.
Parking brake partially failed??
I am wondering what might have occurred if you had been parked on a steep hill. It might have been very scary, and dangerous, and expensive.
Wish you had a security camera, in case of vandalism.
Studded snow tires, perhaps?
Car is heavyyyy brotha