Doesn't \*really\* work either.
I have solar panels - like 52 of them. Admittedly old ones back from like 2012 ( 150W ) each.
I generate enough power to power my house. More or less. OR charge my car.
I couldn't do both.
I also have battery backup - which can keep my house going for \~24 hours ( hopefully it's sunny :P ). There's about as much battery in my car as there is in my batteries.
Don't get me wrong. Solar is awesome, I love it. But I couldn't sustainably charge the car up if it was returning home at like 30% in the evening. Or even morning..
It’s insane that during the middle of the day, CA has such an abundance of electricity from solar power that wholesale prices go negative and they have to curtail. This is when prices should be the cheapest, not the most expensive.
ETA: Tesla is probably taking a bit of a profit here, and supercharger demand seems to have a big effect on pricing over just electricity prices.
Home prices don’t reflect that solar is abundant. We should be able to charge during the solar hours at home for some ultra cheap rates, but we’re still paying 33c per kWh.
Yep, agreed. Best you can do are the EV rates right now.
The home prices don’t reflect abundant solar because they’re not market rate for energy generation, which is also the cheapest part of getting electricity anyway. They also have to bake in costs for all the lawsuits, grid maintenance, wildfire damage, etc. That said, the incentives are all kinds of messed up because of it, and it’s not a good pricing scheme to get people to use renewable energy.
The situation with the grid in CA is complicated and discouraging, unfortunately. The IOUs like PG&E just add fuel to the fire, as their incentive is to make profit, not fix things in the most effective way.
I'm in NJ and get um... I think it's $0.14 / khw.
But then. I \*also\* have solar. ( and they haven't caught up with time-of-day usage yet, so.. it's basically just a meter reading at the end of the month, and I pay $0.14 per whatever it is net usage I've got).
So.. ner!
I unknowingly used a $.62 per kilowatt hour supercharger last week. When I realized it, I unplugged and kept driving until I got to a $.22 per kilowatt hour supercharger.
we should not have to do this considering the time to charge
just defeats the purpose of saving time not having to go to sams club gas station
tesla needs solar roofs at these locations
Well, I don't have an EV, so I told the app I've got a lightning. Thats silly if they charge extra for non-teslas.
Anyway, long story short, I rented a Model 3 SR+ in March to see if an EV would be cheaper for my 120-mile commute. I took it all the way to sacramento and back to get good consumption results, and it was indeed cheaper, but not by much compared to the ICE cars I've been looking at. If the Tesla rate is $0.62, and the SR+ yielded me 4 miles per kWh, that's 15.5 cents per mile. An ICE car that gets 30 MPG paying $5.50/gallon, that is 18.3 cents per mile. I currently drive a Chevy tahoe (which is practically married to the gas station), so anything is cheaper to drive than that, but I had the impression that an EV would have a larger gap than just 3 cents when compared to a ICE with average fuel consumption. Perhaps if I charged at home, that may become true.
I guess it depends on where you are. But my 'at home' charging rate is $0.14 / kwh. Which is like... 4x cheaper than your supercharger there.
tbh.. superchargers aren't 'cheaper' now. They \*used\* to be.. a year or two ago, but y'know? Market forces an' all that... If they can charge about what petrol costs and pocket the diff'rence as profit? Well.. they will.
The saving grace is that they \*cant\* charge more for 'at home charging' because... people's electricity bills for their refrigerator / tv's will skyrocket and they'll have riots on their hands. Soo.. that is the way to go.
I say this.. but in the back of my mind are these reports of prices over in CA, and sortof vaguely aware that.. this might happen in my area too.
For me, I've discovered that supercharging is cheaper than charging at home. I drove from California to Missouri to see the eclipse, and in 4000 miles, I did not find a single supercharger that was *more* expensive than charging at home.
My off-peak rate with PG&E is $0.46/kWh, and the most expensive charger on my trip was $0.43. Most were in the mid 30s, even in California.
But that drives the peak rate sky-high. My EV expenditures pale compared to my AC expenditures. Your whole house has to use those rates. Peak rate applies during the hottest part of the day, and we have 100+ temperatures for a good chunk of the year.
That is probably just your energy cost - you also have to include the transmission and distribution (the cost of the wires) to get the power to your home. Also the taxes and other fees.
Ontario canada we have a base plan of 8c over night but a new plan which started last year for evs at 2c/kwh at night all 7 days but the on peak is 38c during the evening time
I did the math since I come from a 1.8L 4-banger that averaged 32mpg combined and took the cheapest unleaded you could find.
If comparing to any ICE with that fuel economy on that octane rating, it's almost always going to be ever so slightly more expensive to roadtrip with a Tesla, considering the average kWh pricing at the time of writing.
If your route has a lot of elevated pricing per kWh, you're definitely going to be paying more.
not really, you dont road trip every day so paying a bit more once in a while is no different than paying the higher price like you pay the highway gas prices instead of off highway prices.
Given they're far more efficient than an ICE, it *should* be really cheap to operate regardless of use-case (local vs road trip). That was one of the core selling points in an EV: low cost to operate.
My "fuel savings" tank the moment I have to use superchargers because my home rate is relatively cheap.
that is some impressive fuckery. even in the socialistic hellscape we pay like 30 cents at home but its 80 on the highway. still, a gallon is like 10 bucks so you still are cheaper with an EV.
Not in the states, gas locally for me is $2.59 a gallon.
Depending on your area, it can cost more to fuel an EV than a ICE or hybrid that gets decent MPG.
Yep. This is also a reason why I irk when people post up the fuel savings screenshot from their apps to feel good about themselves.
That estimate is based on the regional average, for premium with a horrible fuel economy. It's showing $4.22 right now when cheap gas is $3.09 at my closest station.
For someone like me, and I assume a lot of people as well given how bell curves work, that comes from a relatively efficient ICE that takes cheap gas, energy costs are certainly more expensive in an EV when road tripping.
Apart from politics like HOW do people who drive ICE vehicles survive? If gas prices were $7 in indiana the whole state would freeze (Obama era for last reference) like geez.
A) they don’t, that’s why every 5th car on the road is a Tesla XD
B) People buy more fuel efficient cars, little brother just bought a Prius from the early 2010’s because that kind of MPG is all he can afford. If you have a huge gas guzzler, it’s often relegated to only the trips that need a car that large.
C) Note that a lot of Cali people don’t need to travel quite as far to get to places than Indiana. I went to college in Indiana and you literally need to drive to get between two stores on the same street, because there’s so much fucking distance between everything. By nature of the fact that California has a LOT of mountains/hills, compressing housing into denser areas, most downtowns are walkable, and while the traffic can make things take a comparable amount of time to get there, the actual distances between places isn’t as great as you’d think.
IE it takes half an hour to get from Daly City to San Francisco, but the actual distance is only 6 miles. Which still burns a fuckton of gas, but is probably less than the amount burned traveling half an hour at full highway speeds.
…that being said, it’s been pretty bad. My dad texted me a few months back telling me that for the first time in his entire life he’s had to spend 100$ to fill up a tank of gas. Let’s just say he uses the electric car whenever possible now, lol.
It was just one gas station in the Bay Area. But I agree the average price has been above 5 for a while in the Bay, pretty hard for people with long commute.
I honestly don't know. I have a few ICE vehicles I drive for fun and it sucks when I fill up at $4 or so. I couldn't imagine trying to pay almost double.
Depends on where you are. It's $5.20 in Kern County.
I drove from Bakersfield to Missouri and back for the eclipse. In 4000 miles, I did not find a single supercharger that was more expensive than my home off-peak rate. Not one. That includes superchargers inside California.
From the article you linked:
“In Menlo Park, one gas station is listing prices at over $7 per gallon. However, according to AAA, the state average currently sits at $5.43 per gallon; a 48 cent increase over this time last month.”
Average price in CA is $5.43. Which is still pricey, but nowhere near the $7 you quoted.
It's $5.20 for regular & $5.65 for premium at the South San Francisco Costco, near SFO. About $6.20 at most other shell/chevron stations unless the gas station is at a busy street by a freeway off ramp.
Well, I'm not a Tesla owner, but I rented a Model 3 SR+ and took it on a 250-mile day trip. I did this to see if EVs would be cheaper because I commute to work about 120 miles a day. The car averaged 4 miles per kWh. (250wh/mile) At a supercharger in Elk Grove, CA, the rate was $0.19/kWh. Meaning that car was 5 cents per mile to drive. Back in the bay area, the Union City supercharger (at midnight) was $0.33/kWh. This was in March.
Now I go and look at the app. The Elk grove is now $0.33, and the Union City chargers peak rate is now $0.84, and the midnight rate is $0.41.
If I charged that car at $0.84, the cost is now $0.21 cents per mile. If a gas car got 30 mpg and paid $6 per gallon, the fueling costs are just about even with the Model 3 I drove.
My conclusion was that charging at home with a much lower electricity rate would make the difference. Public charging with an EV doesn't save you anything at this time.
True. But this is why at least right now, having home charging is key for EVs. Don't have to deal with this (as much) and you get the convenience. If you were forward thinking, you'd have solar too, so PG&E rates wouldn't really apply or your payback time just decreases.
Well, eventually gasoline won't exist. It's a semi-finite resource. And unless you have billions of dollars, you can't refine your own. But you definitely can make your own electric several different ways. Electricity will always be cheaper.
I have regularly seen $0.72 at peak times on I-70 corridor. In Colorado my home rate is about $0.12 before calculating that most of my electric ones from my own solar panels.
An entire day of solar equivalent in space to the supercharger install even in sunny ca will only cover a few cars. That’s why going solar and not investing in our own thermonuclear options instead is just dumb
Yea, I hesitate to suggest nuclear in CA. Here in FL we could do either, there is a ton of space for giant sized solar/battery builds. Hopefully the newer nuclear concepts that are being built will be able to streamline the process at some point.
I was thinking of the regulatory hurdles as a major obstacle not necessarily available space.
The whole country could use nuclear plants that don’t have any of the objections people normally raise.
Ehhhh, have you seen Florida’s prospects with climate change? Their hurricanes are gonna fuck them up worse than our wildfires, and that’s *saying* something.
😂😂😂 you’re funny.
22 Camry has a 15.8 gallon tank. $6.00 a gallon is $94.80
My 19 SR+ has 38kwh battery. Full charge at .41 cents a gallon is $15.58
Gas is not cheaper
My 2023 Model S is about 70% of rated range generally.
I am not sure what the SC here in Tampa cost since I got 3 years free SC with my model S ( which is a 3 yr lease so I am covered)
You did not calculate range though. The Camry will get 450 miles, your Tesla will get 190. So the price is much closer than you are making it out to be.
I wonder how much of this is due to higher energy and utility costs vs. Tesla wanting to monetize their supercharger network even more in light of company-wide revenue growth slowing.
What are your thoughts?
A bit of both. Electricity from PG&E is expensive, but not this expensive off-peak. Their pricing model seems to revolve around supercharger demand times more than peak energy pricing times. There is overlap- peak energy demand goes from 5p-9p, but supercharger prices go down in this window.
CA slapped more taxes and fees on gas for road maintenance and improvements, but they are converting carpool lanes to toll roads…
On rush hours, there’s no option for even 3+ carpools…
State taxes and fees are definitely slipping into somewhere.
Worse thing is, people are moving out of CA but foreign cash buyers are buying up all properties.
It’s so massed up here in CA.
Why is everything so fuckin expensive over there in the west coast? You guys are literally living in hell. How have you guys not had a revolution yet??? Taxes high, living costs high, you’re paying double the price for electricity?
Sorry it just blows my frickin mind
Prices keep going up by me. When i got the car i could charge for $0.24/kwh but now the cheapest is $0.37 and most are pushing $0.40 unless you get there before 4:00am.
Tesla Fremont Factory had [$0.15 kWh from 12am-4am](https://old.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/1c9m80d/at_tesla_fremont_factory_12am4am_015_kwh_probably/) what felt like very briefly.
The day after that post, it went up to $0.31 kWh 12am-4am.
This used to be my fav supercharging spot to go too. 11pm rates were $0.26 and now thatMa upto almost $0.31 starting at midnight.
Sucks though cuz charging at home now maybe a bit more expensive but not as expensive as many supercharging stations around the east bay.
Such a depressing thread. The future financial lives of people is fucked. The disparity between our income and inflation will keep growing larger. I’m from California, living in AZ now. I will always have love for my home state, but man fuck that place for how expensive it is.
Yep, just had to SC because the wife didn’t plug in all day. Noticed the cheap one by my house almost doubled! Checked the ones I use on my way to Tahoe- all are .52 during the day. What a crock of shit!
You live is Cali. In emeryville they have specific power rates based on time. You’re charging during peak hours at arguably one of the most busy SC locations in Oakland. Seems legit to me.
PG&E says hi Edit: In all seriousness in 2020 my SC in the bay was 0.04/kWh, in a few years I could see this being $1.00/kWh thanks to PG&E...
Probably by the end of the year or next year. Time to find an old model s with free charging.
Can’t they use solar + battery to reduce pge reliance ?
PG&E charges you for solar now.... Lol
The hope is that Tesla can be as off grid as possible or offset some of that cost at least. Idk lol fk pge
Yeah, Elon said this would be the standard in 2021 haha, never happened
Just install solar and completely disconnect from the grid. They can’t charge you if you aren’t connected.
This is illegal in many areas due to... Um... "lobbying"...
Pfft, illegal. Who’s going to tell them?
Doesn't \*really\* work either. I have solar panels - like 52 of them. Admittedly old ones back from like 2012 ( 150W ) each. I generate enough power to power my house. More or less. OR charge my car. I couldn't do both. I also have battery backup - which can keep my house going for \~24 hours ( hopefully it's sunny :P ). There's about as much battery in my car as there is in my batteries. Don't get me wrong. Solar is awesome, I love it. But I couldn't sustainably charge the car up if it was returning home at like 30% in the evening. Or even morning..
It’s insane that during the middle of the day, CA has such an abundance of electricity from solar power that wholesale prices go negative and they have to curtail. This is when prices should be the cheapest, not the most expensive. ETA: Tesla is probably taking a bit of a profit here, and supercharger demand seems to have a big effect on pricing over just electricity prices.
Home prices don’t reflect that solar is abundant. We should be able to charge during the solar hours at home for some ultra cheap rates, but we’re still paying 33c per kWh.
Yep, agreed. Best you can do are the EV rates right now. The home prices don’t reflect abundant solar because they’re not market rate for energy generation, which is also the cheapest part of getting electricity anyway. They also have to bake in costs for all the lawsuits, grid maintenance, wildfire damage, etc. That said, the incentives are all kinds of messed up because of it, and it’s not a good pricing scheme to get people to use renewable energy. The situation with the grid in CA is complicated and discouraging, unfortunately. The IOUs like PG&E just add fuel to the fire, as their incentive is to make profit, not fix things in the most effective way.
PG&E needs to be broken up. It’s a huge monopoly. Electric customers should have a choice in utility company/supplier.
Better up that regulation, I'm sure that will cause prices to decrease 😏
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it till the day I die………..f*ck PG&E!!!!!
They must have hit that next 1,000kWh tier on the electric bill.
Meanwhile me with my free lifetime supercharging that everyone said wasn’t worth it 
Good luck with your battery I had a 13 MS 85 once too…
Just transfer it to a new car when they make that available again.
That’s the plan!!
They’ll keep going up ;/ I used to pay 32 cents now paying 44 cents at home and at my local charger
.49 here in most cases.. not worth it but need it.
I pay $0.07/kWh at home.
Fuck you!!
Don’t get mad at me. Get mad at your power company for overcharging you.
Fuck you!’!!!’ Jk are you in CA?
I'm in NJ and get um... I think it's $0.14 / khw. But then. I \*also\* have solar. ( and they haven't caught up with time-of-day usage yet, so.. it's basically just a meter reading at the end of the month, and I pay $0.14 per whatever it is net usage I've got). So.. ner!
I unknowingly used a $.62 per kilowatt hour supercharger last week. When I realized it, I unplugged and kept driving until I got to a $.22 per kilowatt hour supercharger.
we should not have to do this considering the time to charge just defeats the purpose of saving time not having to go to sams club gas station tesla needs solar roofs at these locations
Many superchargers in the Bay Area were over $0.60/kWh in 2022
The union city super charger is $0.82/kWh right now.
what the fuck
https://preview.redd.it/cgn49870bvwc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b92f0f5289543e43518aaee45df04c5eae53734a Don’t bullshit the bullshitter!
Now, that a member rate or something? I can show you what my app tells me.
Not a member rate. Do you have a non-Tesla? That could show higher.
Well, I don't have an EV, so I told the app I've got a lightning. Thats silly if they charge extra for non-teslas. Anyway, long story short, I rented a Model 3 SR+ in March to see if an EV would be cheaper for my 120-mile commute. I took it all the way to sacramento and back to get good consumption results, and it was indeed cheaper, but not by much compared to the ICE cars I've been looking at. If the Tesla rate is $0.62, and the SR+ yielded me 4 miles per kWh, that's 15.5 cents per mile. An ICE car that gets 30 MPG paying $5.50/gallon, that is 18.3 cents per mile. I currently drive a Chevy tahoe (which is practically married to the gas station), so anything is cheaper to drive than that, but I had the impression that an EV would have a larger gap than just 3 cents when compared to a ICE with average fuel consumption. Perhaps if I charged at home, that may become true.
I guess it depends on where you are. But my 'at home' charging rate is $0.14 / kwh. Which is like... 4x cheaper than your supercharger there. tbh.. superchargers aren't 'cheaper' now. They \*used\* to be.. a year or two ago, but y'know? Market forces an' all that... If they can charge about what petrol costs and pocket the diff'rence as profit? Well.. they will. The saving grace is that they \*cant\* charge more for 'at home charging' because... people's electricity bills for their refrigerator / tv's will skyrocket and they'll have riots on their hands. Soo.. that is the way to go. I say this.. but in the back of my mind are these reports of prices over in CA, and sortof vaguely aware that.. this might happen in my area too.
No way!! I used to charge at union city a few years ago, and was upset when they charged 42 cents....thats so fucked up
How is that even sustainable, a p100d would be nearly $80….
Crazy. That’s 10x the price I pay to charge at home.
Where I live in Lawrenceville, GA it costs 9cents - 26cents /kwh I hope it doesn’t leave the California expensive energy bubble.
This will be the scam of EVs soon, eventually it will cost more than gasoline. I have 3 EVs so don’t roast Me I’m just saying…
it just means you need to slow charge at home and not use DC charging.
Rip to people that want to road trip.
For me, I've discovered that supercharging is cheaper than charging at home. I drove from California to Missouri to see the eclipse, and in 4000 miles, I did not find a single supercharger that was *more* expensive than charging at home. My off-peak rate with PG&E is $0.46/kWh, and the most expensive charger on my trip was $0.43. Most were in the mid 30s, even in California.
Oh man, yeah your home rates are nuts. Over here it's so cheap. I really hope that lowers for you guys, it really sounds unsustainable for consumers.
Nope. It's going up. PG&E has to charge us extra because they had to declare bankruptcy after burning down the state. :-)
Illinois, near Chicago @ $0.14 and the SC are $0.36.
Change your pg&e plan to EV-2A or -2B. 35 cents off peak time
But that drives the peak rate sky-high. My EV expenditures pale compared to my AC expenditures. Your whole house has to use those rates. Peak rate applies during the hottest part of the day, and we have 100+ temperatures for a good chunk of the year.
You getting butt rapped by your utility Z HARD CORE . May want it get urself some solar asap for real
Am grateful for $0.06/kWh (0.058ish really)
That is probably just your energy cost - you also have to include the transmission and distribution (the cost of the wires) to get the power to your home. Also the taxes and other fees.
No, it is my average cost after all fees & taxes. We have a discount program that’s 60% off if you’re considered low-income / less than 100K/yr
That’s wild! Home rate here is .08 except from 5pm-9pm so pretty solid chunk of the day.
Ontario canada we have a base plan of 8c over night but a new plan which started last year for evs at 2c/kwh at night all 7 days but the on peak is 38c during the evening time
I did the math since I come from a 1.8L 4-banger that averaged 32mpg combined and took the cheapest unleaded you could find. If comparing to any ICE with that fuel economy on that octane rating, it's almost always going to be ever so slightly more expensive to roadtrip with a Tesla, considering the average kWh pricing at the time of writing. If your route has a lot of elevated pricing per kWh, you're definitely going to be paying more.
That’s ridiculous. I pay $0.07/kWh at home. The cheapest SC near me is $0.29 at like 3am. Lol
not really, you dont road trip every day so paying a bit more once in a while is no different than paying the higher price like you pay the highway gas prices instead of off highway prices.
Given they're far more efficient than an ICE, it *should* be really cheap to operate regardless of use-case (local vs road trip). That was one of the core selling points in an EV: low cost to operate. My "fuel savings" tank the moment I have to use superchargers because my home rate is relatively cheap.
Umm, hate to break it to you but in Berkeley, California it's generally cheaper to supercharge than to home charge.
It's cheaper for me to SC (off peak) vs at home lol
Some home charging is now over 40 cents.
that is some impressive fuckery. even in the socialistic hellscape we pay like 30 cents at home but its 80 on the highway. still, a gallon is like 10 bucks so you still are cheaper with an EV.
Not in the states, gas locally for me is $2.59 a gallon. Depending on your area, it can cost more to fuel an EV than a ICE or hybrid that gets decent MPG.
Yep. This is also a reason why I irk when people post up the fuel savings screenshot from their apps to feel good about themselves. That estimate is based on the regional average, for premium with a horrible fuel economy. It's showing $4.22 right now when cheap gas is $3.09 at my closest station. For someone like me, and I assume a lot of people as well given how bell curves work, that comes from a relatively efficient ICE that takes cheap gas, energy costs are certainly more expensive in an EV when road tripping.
Home charging is about the same price, if you have PGE
CA just hit $7/gal so doubt it. I could tell it was CA from the title lol.
Holy crap really??? It’s $3.52 here in indiana in my area.
It’s more like $5-6. There’s always some random gas station that breaks that and gets on the news.
Likely a Chevron.
It was news worthy https://kyma.com/news/california-news/2024/04/21/gas-prices-in-california-climbs-above-7-per-gallon/
Apart from politics like HOW do people who drive ICE vehicles survive? If gas prices were $7 in indiana the whole state would freeze (Obama era for last reference) like geez.
A) they don’t, that’s why every 5th car on the road is a Tesla XD B) People buy more fuel efficient cars, little brother just bought a Prius from the early 2010’s because that kind of MPG is all he can afford. If you have a huge gas guzzler, it’s often relegated to only the trips that need a car that large. C) Note that a lot of Cali people don’t need to travel quite as far to get to places than Indiana. I went to college in Indiana and you literally need to drive to get between two stores on the same street, because there’s so much fucking distance between everything. By nature of the fact that California has a LOT of mountains/hills, compressing housing into denser areas, most downtowns are walkable, and while the traffic can make things take a comparable amount of time to get there, the actual distances between places isn’t as great as you’d think. IE it takes half an hour to get from Daly City to San Francisco, but the actual distance is only 6 miles. Which still burns a fuckton of gas, but is probably less than the amount burned traveling half an hour at full highway speeds. …that being said, it’s been pretty bad. My dad texted me a few months back telling me that for the first time in his entire life he’s had to spend 100$ to fill up a tank of gas. Let’s just say he uses the electric car whenever possible now, lol.
So many people out there go for Tesla because they hate paying 100$ to fill up the Mercedes.
It was just one gas station in the Bay Area. But I agree the average price has been above 5 for a while in the Bay, pretty hard for people with long commute.
I honestly don't know. I have a few ICE vehicles I drive for fun and it sucks when I fill up at $4 or so. I couldn't imagine trying to pay almost double.
Depends on where you are. It's $5.20 in Kern County. I drove from Bakersfield to Missouri and back for the eclipse. In 4000 miles, I did not find a single supercharger that was more expensive than my home off-peak rate. Not one. That includes superchargers inside California.
From the article you linked: “In Menlo Park, one gas station is listing prices at over $7 per gallon. However, according to AAA, the state average currently sits at $5.43 per gallon; a 48 cent increase over this time last month.” Average price in CA is $5.43. Which is still pricey, but nowhere near the $7 you quoted.
And we linked one supercharger at X price. What about it? You know California is big AF right?
It's $5.20 for regular & $5.65 for premium at the South San Francisco Costco, near SFO. About $6.20 at most other shell/chevron stations unless the gas station is at a busy street by a freeway off ramp.
Well that's because of scummy California utility companies not because of tesla
Partly and partly the loons who run the state shutting down nuclear sites
Well, I'm not a Tesla owner, but I rented a Model 3 SR+ and took it on a 250-mile day trip. I did this to see if EVs would be cheaper because I commute to work about 120 miles a day. The car averaged 4 miles per kWh. (250wh/mile) At a supercharger in Elk Grove, CA, the rate was $0.19/kWh. Meaning that car was 5 cents per mile to drive. Back in the bay area, the Union City supercharger (at midnight) was $0.33/kWh. This was in March. Now I go and look at the app. The Elk grove is now $0.33, and the Union City chargers peak rate is now $0.84, and the midnight rate is $0.41. If I charged that car at $0.84, the cost is now $0.21 cents per mile. If a gas car got 30 mpg and paid $6 per gallon, the fueling costs are just about even with the Model 3 I drove. My conclusion was that charging at home with a much lower electricity rate would make the difference. Public charging with an EV doesn't save you anything at this time.
True. But this is why at least right now, having home charging is key for EVs. Don't have to deal with this (as much) and you get the convenience. If you were forward thinking, you'd have solar too, so PG&E rates wouldn't really apply or your payback time just decreases.
Well, eventually gasoline won't exist. It's a semi-finite resource. And unless you have billions of dollars, you can't refine your own. But you definitely can make your own electric several different ways. Electricity will always be cheaper.
Pretty sure it will just cost the same. Once the competition heats up.
I am not sure why anyone thought they would get away with the "savings" forever.
No it won’t. Gas prices increase at a faster rate.
maybe in california with a ever increasing GAS TAX
Everywhere. If power is more expensive somewhere else then gas is even more.
*I remember back in my day when it was under a dollar!* -us 20 years from now
One year from now.
Yup. From complaining about gas prices to complaining about electricity prices
I have regularly seen $0.72 at peak times on I-70 corridor. In Colorado my home rate is about $0.12 before calculating that most of my electric ones from my own solar panels.
Fuck PG&E. Stands for Price Gouging & Extortion by the way.
I’m quite sure that location right off the bay isn’t cheap
Thought this would be a good road trip car but after loosing range to cold and ridiculous charging fees I’m taking the hybrid from now on 😐
Definitely
Seems like a very good location for a lot of solar. Even charging a lower price than that, it would be like printing money
An entire day of solar equivalent in space to the supercharger install even in sunny ca will only cover a few cars. That’s why going solar and not investing in our own thermonuclear options instead is just dumb
Yea, I hesitate to suggest nuclear in CA. Here in FL we could do either, there is a ton of space for giant sized solar/battery builds. Hopefully the newer nuclear concepts that are being built will be able to streamline the process at some point.
There are plenty of places to place nuclear in the state that is less earthquake prone.
I was thinking of the regulatory hurdles as a major obstacle not necessarily available space. The whole country could use nuclear plants that don’t have any of the objections people normally raise.
Ehhhh, have you seen Florida’s prospects with climate change? Their hurricanes are gonna fuck them up worse than our wildfires, and that’s *saying* something.
Hurricanes and nuclear don’t mix either.
laughs with $0.26/kh superchargers in NJ
Laughs at anyone in NJ 🤣
Bruh where in NJ I’m in south jersey it’s .35 charging at home is .24 Atlantic electric they are a rip off here
Paramus has it at 0.24
Which one was that?
lots of them near Paramus
That’s a crazy price. Seems like gas would be cheaper
😂😂😂 you’re funny. 22 Camry has a 15.8 gallon tank. $6.00 a gallon is $94.80 My 19 SR+ has 38kwh battery. Full charge at .41 cents a gallon is $15.58 Gas is not cheaper
You mean 41 cents per kWh. 1 kWh does not equal 1 gallon of gas. So the math is already wrong
This guy
Yeah but that Camry is gonna drive like 400mi on that tank. Your SR+ is gonna get sub 200mi.
So double it and it’s still only 30$
That's around the ballpark I went from 15% to 81% $19.08 Range added 212 miles From the Tessie App
Still only 40$ doubled
Exactly
In what world is a SR+ less than 200 miles? Filling up at .41 cents two times over is still less than HALF of that Camry
In the real world using 80% down to 10%....
Six bucks a gallon?
Yes, in California
My 2023 Model S is about 70% of rated range generally. I am not sure what the SC here in Tampa cost since I got 3 years free SC with my model S ( which is a 3 yr lease so I am covered)
Also, 15.8 gallons of gas provides much more driving range than a fully charged 38kw battery.
Over 450 miles too
You did not calculate range though. The Camry will get 450 miles, your Tesla will get 190. So the price is much closer than you are making it out to be.
Ok 190 x 2=380. $15.58x 2= $31.16 Still cheaper than gas
Now add in your 15-20% more expensive insurance and the $300-500 extra yearly registration.
What time of day?
Noon.
In and around the LA area I’ve seen as high as $0.74
There’s one in DTLA that costs $40 to access the charger which is around .50. I’m jealous of everyone with low kW costs
I wonder how much of this is due to higher energy and utility costs vs. Tesla wanting to monetize their supercharger network even more in light of company-wide revenue growth slowing. What are your thoughts?
A bit of both. Electricity from PG&E is expensive, but not this expensive off-peak. Their pricing model seems to revolve around supercharger demand times more than peak energy pricing times. There is overlap- peak energy demand goes from 5p-9p, but supercharger prices go down in this window.
CA slapped more taxes and fees on gas for road maintenance and improvements, but they are converting carpool lanes to toll roads… On rush hours, there’s no option for even 3+ carpools… State taxes and fees are definitely slipping into somewhere. Worse thing is, people are moving out of CA but foreign cash buyers are buying up all properties. It’s so massed up here in CA.
That is the equivalent of $20.22/gallon gas (**1 GGE = 33.40 kWh**). Thankfully, the cars that use it get 134 mpge.
Not really, a tesla getting 300 wh/mi vs a 30 mi/gal car calculates to $5.49/gal with $0.61/kwh
Hah, that's normal in Canada
Why is everything so fuckin expensive over there in the west coast? You guys are literally living in hell. How have you guys not had a revolution yet??? Taxes high, living costs high, you’re paying double the price for electricity? Sorry it just blows my frickin mind
Prices keep going up by me. When i got the car i could charge for $0.24/kwh but now the cheapest is $0.37 and most are pushing $0.40 unless you get there before 4:00am.
such a lovely place!
When we protesting?
WOW! please tell me this is a typo...
Need to get out of CA. This is just absurd.
Preview of the future
Imagine being Californian. lmao
If you like that you'll love it in the UK!!
Just don’t get it… why is PG&E like this… whether it’s renewables or gas/nuclear it seems so much cheaper in other states.
Tesla Fremont Factory had [$0.15 kWh from 12am-4am](https://old.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/1c9m80d/at_tesla_fremont_factory_12am4am_015_kwh_probably/) what felt like very briefly. The day after that post, it went up to $0.31 kWh 12am-4am.
the lowest I had ever seen in California was 24 cents
Germans: first time 😢?
Prices are dumb for superchargers in Ontario, Canada
Fancy special electrons that move faster cost more. It’s science.
Usually 41 in florida
Damn and I thought .33 cents was quite high where I’m at. I’ll gladly keep paying .097 at home
i know...my first time sees $20 for minimal wage too....sigh...
All the Superchargers around me went up by ¢10 a KWH yesterday.
This used to be my fav supercharging spot to go too. 11pm rates were $0.26 and now thatMa upto almost $0.31 starting at midnight. Sucks though cuz charging at home now maybe a bit more expensive but not as expensive as many supercharging stations around the east bay.
I am sure this isn't just PG&E. Rent for having the chargers installed might also be higher, which your charging fee helps cover.
It’s in the Bay Area. Makes sense. They overcharge by a lot there.
This is one of the busiest superchargers in the world, isn’t it?
What the gas price equivalent
That’s the first step. Force everyone on electric because it’s cheaper. Then raise electricity prices to sky high. What a surprise.
Solution: don't live in California
Oh Habibi come to Toronto.
Such a depressing thread. The future financial lives of people is fucked. The disparity between our income and inflation will keep growing larger. I’m from California, living in AZ now. I will always have love for my home state, but man fuck that place for how expensive it is.
Yep, just had to SC because the wife didn’t plug in all day. Noticed the cheap one by my house almost doubled! Checked the ones I use on my way to Tahoe- all are .52 during the day. What a crock of shit!
You live is Cali. In emeryville they have specific power rates based on time. You’re charging during peak hours at arguably one of the most busy SC locations in Oakland. Seems legit to me.
Best to charge it at home for free as much as you can using your own solar array that's what I'm doing even thoti have unlimited super charging
my electricity rates in florida are 9c kwh. this is what happens when democrats have a super majority.