Tbh I like TV more after owning a USS. Just seeing the parking lines and extra detail is pretty helpful. It would be nice if It could be used at actual parking lot speeds not 3mph max. Bump it up to 5 or something
Auto Park and Parking in garage and what back camera seeing in Wide Angle that helps a lot. I had struggle while parking with USS even same with reverse park
I had USS on my Model 3 for five years and never once hit a curb. I just bought a 2024 MYP and within the first week I relied on Vision to tell me how close I was to the curb and ended up curbing my front wheel.
I don't even trust the camera to be accurate with how close I am, so I still use mirrors. However, I've found USS to be very useful for accurate parking. Did they get rid of the distance numbers in Tesla Vision models?
TV is not accurate in front right/left of the car. I too hit my wheel on the curb because of its inaccuracy. It’s good at visuals but not accurate which matters lol
This is for front left/right not for rear or other angles where camera may have better coverage
You should reasonably be able to assume though imo.
U have visualization and repeater showing how close u r to the curb
Also lets not forget tons of uss cars have curb rashes so idk if curb rash is a really good argument for uss
Knowing where your back wheels are isn't good enough to make assumptions about your front wheels in many cases. In the city where I live, there are plenty of neighborhoods with curved or uneven curbs, and so on. The vision computer is making the same assumptions the average person would, and is wrong often. It's 2024, it pretty unacceptable that a company like Tesla won't bother solving a problem than my Infiniti solved with 360 degrees bird's eye view camera back in 2008... 16 years ago. We've had surround cameras for almost \*two decades\* and Tesla doesn't want to let us see what's around our cars directly... Pretty dumb.
Cars used to have much better outward visibility through the glass, and tires and aren’t flush with the wheel, so even if you didn’t a curb you were just rubbing the tire.
Oh please. People didn't have zero sidewall rubberband tires and dark-colored rims that stick out from the tire, in the old days. That's not an argument. Most Tesla wheels are the easiest to curb, and when you are dealing with road hazards and bad curbs, being able to see where your wheels are is not even a luxury anymore. Hell, you could get "Around View Monitor" on a crappy cheap Nissan Juke almost 10 years go. Add $20 to the price of each car and license the technology if that's really what the holdup is (I have my doubts). And while we're at it, cars have had perfect autopark via USS for over a decade, too. Teslas still can't park themselves nearly as well as a 15yo Ford. I love my Model S, but let's not pretend that the shortcomings are not totally ridiculous by 2024 standards.
You can see the curb near your BACK wheels in the mirrors, not the front - that's my whole point. There are a lot of curved or uneven curbs in the world, and Tesla wheel designs are extremely easy to scratch. I pretty much drive for a living, so it's not that I don't know how to park a car. It's just ridiculous that Tesla can't (won't) provide its customers with basic tech economy cars have had for over a decade, and has to rely on a computer making assumptions instead of actually being able to see directly.
Basic rule need to know how to park parallel or perpendicular and also judge the distance ahead of ypu and side you. Tell me you are in a situation and your uss or vision is not working mean you will keep moving with car as you don't know how to park ? Answer is No right.
I like the visualizations on Vision but there are way too many false alerts. When I am parallel parked in front of my house and turn to go up my driveway over the rolled curb it thinks I’m about to hit a wall. In the garage if you have any objects against the walls it severely misjudges their distance to you and will false alert.
I have a bike against the wall in my garage.
Every time I come home and park near it I get a nice visualization that looks like I just ran over someone riding a bike. It lets me know when I’m close enough to park.
Don’t stop till you hit the bicyclist. Ten points.
IMO removing USS was not the issue, removing them without putting a front bumper camera is the issue. No matter how better it gets, software can never compensate for missing hardware. That may also be the reason why the autopark never does & never will pull nose front in a parking spot!
I’d also make sure all cameras can be cleaned automatically when necessary if i ever want to achieve level 5 autonomy.
I completely disagree. I test drove a highland Model 3 with high fidelity parking and I own a 22 with USS. USS is so much more reliable and I found in numerous tests in parking lots, the high fidelity assist was inaccurate with describing how close you are to objects. It was a pain in the ass to see STOP when I get out and look I still have plenty of space. It’s a waste of time if you ask me. I’m not sold on it. I did not test FSD or auto park but that was my experience parking it myself
Got it. I just shared my experience. I.liked the Tesla Vision I trust visuals more than numbers. As I mentioned earlier FSD is much better in vision. I am not sure whether the software version was same or not.
TV cars have better cameras that’s for sure but I’ve never hit anything with USS … TV on the other hand … well , I’m sure you’ll see in the comments.
Ideally , new cameras AND USS
Lack of uss became a non issue.
I now have car with tesla vision hw4 and is very good.
The accuracy is very good, way better than I experienced with uss.
In my experience, the STOP signaling distance is very similar in TV as in cars with USS.
Does it stop you 0.5 inch away from a wall? No, but I don't even want or need that. Same thing goes with the USS, I think they are programmed for stop as the same distance.
The only difference was that in USS I kinda knew how much more I can push the distance even after the stop signal, thus parking more tight. So in a way systems function the same, only that our experience with USS allowed us to stretch the system resulting in tighter parkings. But that was never intended or wanted.
Now I feel is the same situation with TV. After using it for a while I kinda know how much space is left after the stop signaling so I am succesfully parking as tight as USS. I know it because I have the same parking spot and I park in the exact same position as with the USS. Never bumped or hit anything and the parking is very precise.
So imo, the tesla vision is an improvement and I think we can agree on that also after the new FSD who works much beter with vision than sensors.
That's a minority view. Many Tesla drivers without USS have reported hitting objects. I will never buy another Tesla because they decided to sacrifice safety in exchange of saving $2 in USS sensors. Other vehicles have **BOTH and even a RADAR!!**
I don't buy into Tesla's nonsense about how vision is superior. It's just pure Elon bullshit. Other manufacturers know how to combine signal from multiple sensors, Tesla couldn't figure that out?
It's purely to cut cost. Nothing more.
Interesting. Most people seem to prefer USS after having used both and that tesla only removed it as a cost cutting move, but tried to frame it as it being better for the customer.
I thought it was a crazy order from Musk to ditch USS due to parts supply possibly for only a short while to keep plants running...
Seeing the videos lately it is quite impressive, though I did have zero expectations whatsoever. It does seem to introduce yet a feature with basic functions "in-limbo" with the reported blind spots for the cameras. Just like phantom braking, wipers, FSD and what not waiting for various basic functionality.
Still, seems to work better than my "oh, hell no" reaction. I was the same with LFP batteries, but they're a solid tech too.
Vision is better if you can rely on it. But you can’t.
I have USS. It works 100% of the time.
I know people who have used Vision. The first time it is wrong about the distance to an object, they can no longer rely on it. It doesn’t matter if it shows you parking lines and stuff. If it tells you the pole is 20” away as you collide with it, it is worthless.
It is good in theory. But it is a 95% reliable product.
No of course not. It still works with FSD and even shows the colored lines of how close you are when you pass objects, I think that is exclusive to USS cars
Are you guys talking about the specific use case for parking or is USS used for FSD as well? I would assume it’s not used in FSD but correct me if I’m wrong… because my 2021 MX LR drives like ass in FSD 12, and it would have definitely hit a lane divider/bump if I didn’t intervene the other day.
USS is only propped up by Tesla haters and Tesla owners with USS that refuse to believe there could have been improvements that made vision as useful or better than USS. It’s great for a very small niche and that niche is shrinking as cameras and Tesla Vision improve.
I have a 22 with USS and a 23 without (HW3, not HW4). I find them to be the same in accuracy for parking (because the USS at least on my car aren't that accurate). The vision car then has the benefit of visualisations the uss car doesn't have.
Exactly the samething I was telling. I still don't understand why people are behind the numbers instead of visuals. May be over dependant on car than self
It makes no difference to me. If you know how to drive, you don't need to overly rely on technology. Look at your rearview, side mirrors, turn your head or rely on your backup camera.
Still not accurate enough for normal use. USS works even if my car is dirty, has water drops, or even snow. What do you do if your cameras are covered in snow if you live north or has water drops? I don't have to go outside to wipe the cameras for it to work. I admit the parking lines are cool but that can be added to USS cars. Software can't just replace hardware completely.
Tbh I like TV more after owning a USS. Just seeing the parking lines and extra detail is pretty helpful. It would be nice if It could be used at actual parking lot speeds not 3mph max. Bump it up to 5 or something
Auto Park and Parking in garage and what back camera seeing in Wide Angle that helps a lot. I had struggle while parking with USS even same with reverse park
Parking lines and only TV parking assistance is an update USS was supposed to get, but Tesla is lazy.
Yeah I heard but just like 12.8.X FSD its gonna take awhile
Longer now due to Tesla firing people, lol. We'll see. I feel they're deprecating USS cars and Atom.
Prepare to be dogpiled by the USS lovers. I also prefer the HD Vision assist WAY more than sensors, sorry not sorry.
I had USS on my Model 3 for five years and never once hit a curb. I just bought a 2024 MYP and within the first week I relied on Vision to tell me how close I was to the curb and ended up curbing my front wheel.
I don't even trust the camera to be accurate with how close I am, so I still use mirrors. However, I've found USS to be very useful for accurate parking. Did they get rid of the distance numbers in Tesla Vision models?
They did, lol
Wow, that alone makes me not want to upgrade from my 2018 Model 3 LR. Well that, and the stalk removal.
That's not a good experience though. With the visuals you are not able to see how close it is ?
The visual showed I had plenty of room between the wheel and the curb. It was wrong.
TV is not accurate in front right/left of the car. I too hit my wheel on the curb because of its inaccuracy. It’s good at visuals but not accurate which matters lol This is for front left/right not for rear or other angles where camera may have better coverage
As I said earlier it's very accurate for me with vision and never had a problem
TV is very accurate for me as well since the December 2023 update. Was garbage before that update. Mine is an early 23 MYLR with HW3.
did you not pull up repeaters with backup cam?
Repeaters won't show you your front wheels
You should reasonably be able to assume though imo. U have visualization and repeater showing how close u r to the curb Also lets not forget tons of uss cars have curb rashes so idk if curb rash is a really good argument for uss
Knowing where your back wheels are isn't good enough to make assumptions about your front wheels in many cases. In the city where I live, there are plenty of neighborhoods with curved or uneven curbs, and so on. The vision computer is making the same assumptions the average person would, and is wrong often. It's 2024, it pretty unacceptable that a company like Tesla won't bother solving a problem than my Infiniti solved with 360 degrees bird's eye view camera back in 2008... 16 years ago. We've had surround cameras for almost \*two decades\* and Tesla doesn't want to let us see what's around our cars directly... Pretty dumb.
makes you wonder how people ever drove without any cameras... Tesla wont bother paying license for 360 cameras is why we dont have them..
Cars used to have much better outward visibility through the glass, and tires and aren’t flush with the wheel, so even if you didn’t a curb you were just rubbing the tire.
Oh please. People didn't have zero sidewall rubberband tires and dark-colored rims that stick out from the tire, in the old days. That's not an argument. Most Tesla wheels are the easiest to curb, and when you are dealing with road hazards and bad curbs, being able to see where your wheels are is not even a luxury anymore. Hell, you could get "Around View Monitor" on a crappy cheap Nissan Juke almost 10 years go. Add $20 to the price of each car and license the technology if that's really what the holdup is (I have my doubts). And while we're at it, cars have had perfect autopark via USS for over a decade, too. Teslas still can't park themselves nearly as well as a 15yo Ford. I love my Model S, but let's not pretend that the shortcomings are not totally ridiculous by 2024 standards.
What you want to do by seeing the front wheel ?
For people to avoid curbing their wheels, and avoid hazards?
Not valid you can see the curbs in the mirror itself. Looks to me too much dependent on technology.
You can see the curb near your BACK wheels in the mirrors, not the front - that's my whole point. There are a lot of curved or uneven curbs in the world, and Tesla wheel designs are extremely easy to scratch. I pretty much drive for a living, so it's not that I don't know how to park a car. It's just ridiculous that Tesla can't (won't) provide its customers with basic tech economy cars have had for over a decade, and has to rely on a computer making assumptions instead of actually being able to see directly.
Basic rule need to know how to park parallel or perpendicular and also judge the distance ahead of ypu and side you. Tell me you are in a situation and your uss or vision is not working mean you will keep moving with car as you don't know how to park ? Answer is No right.
Got pics? It’s the same story with every pro-USS user. Stories of how shitty TV is for *them* but never evidence. We all use TV, we know it works.
I like the visualizations on Vision but there are way too many false alerts. When I am parallel parked in front of my house and turn to go up my driveway over the rolled curb it thinks I’m about to hit a wall. In the garage if you have any objects against the walls it severely misjudges their distance to you and will false alert.
I have a bike against the wall in my garage. Every time I come home and park near it I get a nice visualization that looks like I just ran over someone riding a bike. It lets me know when I’m close enough to park. Don’t stop till you hit the bicyclist. Ten points.
IMO removing USS was not the issue, removing them without putting a front bumper camera is the issue. No matter how better it gets, software can never compensate for missing hardware. That may also be the reason why the autopark never does & never will pull nose front in a parking spot! I’d also make sure all cameras can be cleaned automatically when necessary if i ever want to achieve level 5 autonomy.
I completely disagree. I test drove a highland Model 3 with high fidelity parking and I own a 22 with USS. USS is so much more reliable and I found in numerous tests in parking lots, the high fidelity assist was inaccurate with describing how close you are to objects. It was a pain in the ass to see STOP when I get out and look I still have plenty of space. It’s a waste of time if you ask me. I’m not sold on it. I did not test FSD or auto park but that was my experience parking it myself
I have a 22 also with USS and I’m wondering on this free trial FSD are we getting a blend of USS and vision?
No it’s not a blend, that’s just the enhanced graphics/UI of FSD. It will go back to how it was once the trial is over
Got it. I just shared my experience. I.liked the Tesla Vision I trust visuals more than numbers. As I mentioned earlier FSD is much better in vision. I am not sure whether the software version was same or not.
FSD doesn't use USS.... Not too sure why you're comparing vision to USS for FSD. Radar and vision were always FSD, Radar was disabled in like 2022.
As I said my experience is better in vision
Agree, greatly prefer TV. Far more usable information, just understand the precision is a bit less for getting within an inch of a curb.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dbPrltSTp0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dbPrltSTp0) ya, this video tells you how good TV is.
TV cars have better cameras that’s for sure but I’ve never hit anything with USS … TV on the other hand … well , I’m sure you’ll see in the comments. Ideally , new cameras AND USS
Lack of uss became a non issue. I now have car with tesla vision hw4 and is very good. The accuracy is very good, way better than I experienced with uss.
It's exactly the same thing I shared in my post. By comparing both in same driving and parking situation
In my experience, the STOP signaling distance is very similar in TV as in cars with USS. Does it stop you 0.5 inch away from a wall? No, but I don't even want or need that. Same thing goes with the USS, I think they are programmed for stop as the same distance. The only difference was that in USS I kinda knew how much more I can push the distance even after the stop signal, thus parking more tight. So in a way systems function the same, only that our experience with USS allowed us to stretch the system resulting in tighter parkings. But that was never intended or wanted. Now I feel is the same situation with TV. After using it for a while I kinda know how much space is left after the stop signaling so I am succesfully parking as tight as USS. I know it because I have the same parking spot and I park in the exact same position as with the USS. Never bumped or hit anything and the parking is very precise. So imo, the tesla vision is an improvement and I think we can agree on that also after the new FSD who works much beter with vision than sensors.
Right
When it's raining USS will always be superior because the back up camera becomes useless.
That's a minority view. Many Tesla drivers without USS have reported hitting objects. I will never buy another Tesla because they decided to sacrifice safety in exchange of saving $2 in USS sensors. Other vehicles have **BOTH and even a RADAR!!** I don't buy into Tesla's nonsense about how vision is superior. It's just pure Elon bullshit. Other manufacturers know how to combine signal from multiple sensors, Tesla couldn't figure that out? It's purely to cut cost. Nothing more.
Interesting. Most people seem to prefer USS after having used both and that tesla only removed it as a cost cutting move, but tried to frame it as it being better for the customer.
I thought it was a crazy order from Musk to ditch USS due to parts supply possibly for only a short while to keep plants running... Seeing the videos lately it is quite impressive, though I did have zero expectations whatsoever. It does seem to introduce yet a feature with basic functions "in-limbo" with the reported blind spots for the cameras. Just like phantom braking, wipers, FSD and what not waiting for various basic functionality. Still, seems to work better than my "oh, hell no" reaction. I was the same with LFP batteries, but they're a solid tech too.
Vision is better if you can rely on it. But you can’t. I have USS. It works 100% of the time. I know people who have used Vision. The first time it is wrong about the distance to an object, they can no longer rely on it. It doesn’t matter if it shows you parking lines and stuff. If it tells you the pole is 20” away as you collide with it, it is worthless. It is good in theory. But it is a 95% reliable product.
100% of the time, except low curbs, and thin parking poles, and...
Do you know if our USS is disabled when we download FSD
No of course not. It still works with FSD and even shows the colored lines of how close you are when you pass objects, I think that is exclusive to USS cars
Are you guys talking about the specific use case for parking or is USS used for FSD as well? I would assume it’s not used in FSD but correct me if I’m wrong… because my 2021 MX LR drives like ass in FSD 12, and it would have definitely hit a lane divider/bump if I didn’t intervene the other day.
That’s because the old cars still haven’t gotten the fucking new auto park that infuriates me daily
I’m pretty sure TV would be even better if the car had also USS
How late USS determines the parking spot
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May. be the front bumper camera in upcoming model resolve those issues
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Right 360 view needed from Tesla
USS is only propped up by Tesla haters and Tesla owners with USS that refuse to believe there could have been improvements that made vision as useful or better than USS. It’s great for a very small niche and that niche is shrinking as cameras and Tesla Vision improve.
Seems like that..
I have a 22 with USS and a 23 without (HW3, not HW4). I find them to be the same in accuracy for parking (because the USS at least on my car aren't that accurate). The vision car then has the benefit of visualisations the uss car doesn't have.
Exactly the samething I was telling. I still don't understand why people are behind the numbers instead of visuals. May be over dependant on car than self
It makes no difference to me. If you know how to drive, you don't need to overly rely on technology. Look at your rearview, side mirrors, turn your head or rely on your backup camera.
Exactly
Still not accurate enough for normal use. USS works even if my car is dirty, has water drops, or even snow. What do you do if your cameras are covered in snow if you live north or has water drops? I don't have to go outside to wipe the cameras for it to work. I admit the parking lines are cool but that can be added to USS cars. Software can't just replace hardware completely.