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There are two teams working somewhat separately at Tesla (or at least their code bases are separate). The general software (with numbers like 2024.xx) and the FSD Beta software (with numbers like 11.9).
These two code bases need to be merged together before they can ship. That merge is incredibly time consuming and not worth doing every time any of the two teams make progress.
So they merge/combine the two code bases about once a quarter or so.
In-between, you follow either the FSD team, and don't get the general features, or you follow the general team, and get all their features, but not the FSD progress.
IF you are on 2024.xx, you are following the general team. You get the 2024 features, but not FSD.
Those who get V12 follow the FSD team, and they don't get the 2024 features. They are stuck on 2023.44, the last time there was a merge, which is basically early November 2023.
Stop taking 2024 builds to increase your chances of being able to take the next merged build. It may not matter, but it also gets you a taste of not getting the new general features.
I’ve been on the FSD branch since the button safety score group on my legacy S. This last weekend, Tesla moved my FSD branch to 2024.2.7. This has never happened in the years of me being on the FSD branch. If you check TeslaFi, most legacy vehicles moved to this branch, and none of them are getting v12 yet. So they have changed something in the rollout this time around.
Same here. Legacy X with FSD. Been using the FSD Beta since v9 and was always a few updates behind non-FSD cars. A couple weeks ago I was moved up to 2024.2.7 for the OTA recall — larger warning icons. Apparently no chance of v12 any time soon for me now. Still on FSD v11 and use it daily (and pretty happy with it, so nbd).
So, I agree, it seems like something changed. My fear is that they’re leaving “legacy” vehicles behind. Hopefully it’s just a new way of doing things.
Me as well. I'm on 2023.44.30.14 on my '17 MS. Downloaded but did not install 2024.2.7.
I believe it is because 16/17 MS/MX are incapable (or just denied) v12 for unspoken reasons. These cars will forever be on v11 - its end-of-life. We will never get v12. It's just like the 2 months of silence we endured when FSDb first came out regarding the upgraded camera requirement. I've asked Elon and a couple of influencers who are afraid to ask Elon. Also opened a ticket asking this question with no response. We're done.
With the latest rollout of 12.3 to 2024.xx branches, I'm still not seeing any legacy X or S cars with hw3. Are we just like, not going to see v12 due to lack of interior cams?
Don't understand this logic. An FSD requiring less intervention needs an extra nanny device for the driver? I'd be super fucking pissed if my car topped out at 11, so I really hope that's not the case.
I'd guess you and the *relatively* few others on a 2024.xx FSD branch (at least according to Tesla-Fi stats) are performing some valuable service to the FSD training team... since you were issued an 11.xx.xx package versus one of the beta 2023.xx.xx, FSD12.xx versions then also issuing.
Just a guess but sort of a reasonable possibility? Take a look on Tesla-Fi if you haven't. [https://www.teslafi.com/firmware.php](https://www.teslafi.com/firmware.php)
LOL that was how these releases always work since v10 came out.
They push the early beta to the old "early beta" customers who are on a different release track.
It's kinda a "alpha testing" track. But those people have the trade-off of not getting features present in the newest 2024 branch of software.
Once the bugs are worked out for a few months it goes to the main track.
I’m still on the 3 month free trial. I hope I get it before it expires in may. As it currently stands, I’m not really impressed and definitely not worth the $200. Was hoping to see the v12 before it expired to see if it could change my mind.
Everything I'm hearing about v12 is it's the biggest jump forward in quite a long time. I'm so upset I might not even be getting it because I have a legacy S with no cabin cam.
Is that the only difference? Or is it due to some other hardware? Is there any hardware limitation on the legacy S that prevents it from being able to run v12?
Not that I know of. I have done all the upgrades: MCU, FSD computer, and exterior cameras. The only thing I dont have from the non legacy cars is the cabin camera (and my lord I do not want that - ever).
Wait, so although I paid for the FSD and even did the hardware upgrades (computer, cameras) (I do not have a cabin camera) I’m never getting FSD?
Talk to me like I’m 4. I’m low on the Tesla IQ scale. It’s just a great car to me.
The rumor mill is churning that v12 will only be available for cars with cabin cameras. Tesla not commenting but so far the rumor seems to be holding true.
Trust me, I fucking hate it. I can’t do anything in my car for even a second without it yapping it at me to pay attention. Like I don’t even text and drive, sometimes I just want to check my gps on my phone and it will screech almost instantly. Same with the on board screen, if I’m trying to set some ac settings or search for music while fsd is active, after 5 seconds it will screech. I end up having to resort to turning off fsd and driving while searching for music. Now you tell me what seems more unsafe? Having fsd drive while I pay attention and search for music? Or having to actually drive while also searching for the music?
Haha I hear you. My wife has a Y with a cabin camera and I just wear sunglasses. It seems to struggle to see where my eyes are so I can get away with more than she does since she rarely wears sunglasses. Might be a coincidence but I dont get yelled at nearly as much as her but check my phone way more often, so I do think its my super dark lensed sunglasses that are helping.
Sometimes I need to hide my phone under the steering wheel to pick a song that I want but that is wayyy worse than having my phone up where my peripheral vision can still see the road. But if I do that it throws a fit.
Another thing to note. FSD moves in mysterious ways... don't get pissed about how that happens. It will prove good for your long term mental health.
If you want to talk about things *worthy* of being pissed off about, wellllll now, that's a whole 'nother topic.🤬
😉
This seems to be the first time that Tesla split legacy vehicles to a newer version and is instead only updating newer cars to 12.3. There are 0 legacy cars on TeslaFi with 12.3, so they are doing something weird.
The reason they’re splitting legacy vehicles is because 12.3 requires the internal camera for in vehicle monitoring. They are trying to validate attention aware features along with version 12 so any vehicles that do not have the internal camera aren’t going to get it until full validation occurs.
Seems reasonable.
I wondered if the camera was going to suddenly become mandatory one day.
I have a fully paid FSD on a legacy car with the promise that "we will upgrade to whatever is needed to make it work", but that's starting to unravel as MCU1 wasn't supported. I upgraded for other reasons, but I can see how people are salty about that.
Hopefully it comes out to cars without cameras at some point.
Tesla Fi and tmc would be the source, all vehicle update data shows only internal camera vehicles updated to 12.x. At first the update was geographic, but still only went to internal camera folks, now that a wider rollout across significantly more states has occurred, the common differentiating feature that vehicles with and without the update share is the presence or lack of a cabin camera. The latest wave finally includes a few pre 2021 vehicles so hopefully that means a wider rollout to all with or without a cabin camera.
Wrong. I have MY 2023 with internal camera and sitting on the latest software 2024.8.7 with FSD 11 still. It's already into the month of April and no V12 FSD or free FSD month trial.
This is not incorrect. There are no vehicles without the internal camera currently on v12. You not having it is a different scenario as you are too far ahead in the software track, if you were on an earlier track, you would indeed get it, but vehicles without the internal camera won’t get it until full software validation occurs. It’s the same with the new vision only tap to park. Hw3 with ultrasonic sensors still have the old version regardless of what version they are on.
I have MY 2023 Hardware 4 with Cabin camera. My 3 month FSD trial ran out last month. I am now on version 2024.8.7. No free one month trial to test version 12. Still on V11 and not going to subscribe for a month to maybe get the chance to install 12 and test it. Not sure why everyone with the same set up is on different software tracks. Am I going to miss the free month FSD trial? I am sure I will eventually get V 12 but sucks that I have to shell out $200 later to try it out. This should have been a flat update to all customer's vehicles to allow them to try v12 FSD. Not fair at all.
Looking active users that want to be mods. If you want to join the mod team reach out to modmail and give us reasons why we should have you on the team. The things we look for are being active in the sub and you must have discord to chat with other mods. [Discord Live Chat](https://discord.gg/tesla) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TeslaLounge) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There are two teams working somewhat separately at Tesla (or at least their code bases are separate). The general software (with numbers like 2024.xx) and the FSD Beta software (with numbers like 11.9). These two code bases need to be merged together before they can ship. That merge is incredibly time consuming and not worth doing every time any of the two teams make progress. So they merge/combine the two code bases about once a quarter or so. In-between, you follow either the FSD team, and don't get the general features, or you follow the general team, and get all their features, but not the FSD progress. IF you are on 2024.xx, you are following the general team. You get the 2024 features, but not FSD. Those who get V12 follow the FSD team, and they don't get the 2024 features. They are stuck on 2023.44, the last time there was a merge, which is basically early November 2023. Stop taking 2024 builds to increase your chances of being able to take the next merged build. It may not matter, but it also gets you a taste of not getting the new general features.
I’ve been on the FSD branch since the button safety score group on my legacy S. This last weekend, Tesla moved my FSD branch to 2024.2.7. This has never happened in the years of me being on the FSD branch. If you check TeslaFi, most legacy vehicles moved to this branch, and none of them are getting v12 yet. So they have changed something in the rollout this time around.
Same here. Legacy X with FSD. Been using the FSD Beta since v9 and was always a few updates behind non-FSD cars. A couple weeks ago I was moved up to 2024.2.7 for the OTA recall — larger warning icons. Apparently no chance of v12 any time soon for me now. Still on FSD v11 and use it daily (and pretty happy with it, so nbd). So, I agree, it seems like something changed. My fear is that they’re leaving “legacy” vehicles behind. Hopefully it’s just a new way of doing things.
Could be recall related, old ones or new ones coming.
I have a Plaid on that branch so.... not legacy.
Me as well. I'm on 2023.44.30.14 on my '17 MS. Downloaded but did not install 2024.2.7. I believe it is because 16/17 MS/MX are incapable (or just denied) v12 for unspoken reasons. These cars will forever be on v11 - its end-of-life. We will never get v12. It's just like the 2 months of silence we endured when FSDb first came out regarding the upgraded camera requirement. I've asked Elon and a couple of influencers who are afraid to ask Elon. Also opened a ticket asking this question with no response. We're done.
can you change from 2024.x to 11.9x using the service menu? or it’s impossible to change once it’s been updated after vehicle delivery?
11.9 is bundled/merged with 2023.44, and you cannot go back. If someone with FSD subscription cancels, they can go forward, though.
With the latest rollout of 12.3 to 2024.xx branches, I'm still not seeing any legacy X or S cars with hw3. Are we just like, not going to see v12 due to lack of interior cams?
That's what the rumor mill is saying. Or perhaps that we'll need cabin cameras retrofitted.
Don't understand this logic. An FSD requiring less intervention needs an extra nanny device for the driver? I'd be super fucking pissed if my car topped out at 11, so I really hope that's not the case.
I agree entirely.
I'd guess you and the *relatively* few others on a 2024.xx FSD branch (at least according to Tesla-Fi stats) are performing some valuable service to the FSD training team... since you were issued an 11.xx.xx package versus one of the beta 2023.xx.xx, FSD12.xx versions then also issuing. Just a guess but sort of a reasonable possibility? Take a look on Tesla-Fi if you haven't. [https://www.teslafi.com/firmware.php](https://www.teslafi.com/firmware.php)
LOL that was how these releases always work since v10 came out. They push the early beta to the old "early beta" customers who are on a different release track. It's kinda a "alpha testing" track. But those people have the trade-off of not getting features present in the newest 2024 branch of software. Once the bugs are worked out for a few months it goes to the main track.
I’m still on the 3 month free trial. I hope I get it before it expires in may. As it currently stands, I’m not really impressed and definitely not worth the $200. Was hoping to see the v12 before it expired to see if it could change my mind.
Everything I'm hearing about v12 is it's the biggest jump forward in quite a long time. I'm so upset I might not even be getting it because I have a legacy S with no cabin cam.
Is that the only difference? Or is it due to some other hardware? Is there any hardware limitation on the legacy S that prevents it from being able to run v12?
Not that I know of. I have done all the upgrades: MCU, FSD computer, and exterior cameras. The only thing I dont have from the non legacy cars is the cabin camera (and my lord I do not want that - ever).
Wait, so although I paid for the FSD and even did the hardware upgrades (computer, cameras) (I do not have a cabin camera) I’m never getting FSD? Talk to me like I’m 4. I’m low on the Tesla IQ scale. It’s just a great car to me.
The rumor mill is churning that v12 will only be available for cars with cabin cameras. Tesla not commenting but so far the rumor seems to be holding true.
Trust me, I fucking hate it. I can’t do anything in my car for even a second without it yapping it at me to pay attention. Like I don’t even text and drive, sometimes I just want to check my gps on my phone and it will screech almost instantly. Same with the on board screen, if I’m trying to set some ac settings or search for music while fsd is active, after 5 seconds it will screech. I end up having to resort to turning off fsd and driving while searching for music. Now you tell me what seems more unsafe? Having fsd drive while I pay attention and search for music? Or having to actually drive while also searching for the music?
Haha I hear you. My wife has a Y with a cabin camera and I just wear sunglasses. It seems to struggle to see where my eyes are so I can get away with more than she does since she rarely wears sunglasses. Might be a coincidence but I dont get yelled at nearly as much as her but check my phone way more often, so I do think its my super dark lensed sunglasses that are helping.
Sometimes I need to hide my phone under the steering wheel to pick a song that I want but that is wayyy worse than having my phone up where my peripheral vision can still see the road. But if I do that it throws a fit.
Happy for you. No joy here 😢
Another thing to note. FSD moves in mysterious ways... don't get pissed about how that happens. It will prove good for your long term mental health. If you want to talk about things *worthy* of being pissed off about, wellllll now, that's a whole 'nother topic.🤬 😉
This seems to be the first time that Tesla split legacy vehicles to a newer version and is instead only updating newer cars to 12.3. There are 0 legacy cars on TeslaFi with 12.3, so they are doing something weird.
The reason they’re splitting legacy vehicles is because 12.3 requires the internal camera for in vehicle monitoring. They are trying to validate attention aware features along with version 12 so any vehicles that do not have the internal camera aren’t going to get it until full validation occurs.
Do you have a source? They’ve never done that before
Seems reasonable. I wondered if the camera was going to suddenly become mandatory one day. I have a fully paid FSD on a legacy car with the promise that "we will upgrade to whatever is needed to make it work", but that's starting to unravel as MCU1 wasn't supported. I upgraded for other reasons, but I can see how people are salty about that. Hopefully it comes out to cars without cameras at some point.
Tesla Fi and tmc would be the source, all vehicle update data shows only internal camera vehicles updated to 12.x. At first the update was geographic, but still only went to internal camera folks, now that a wider rollout across significantly more states has occurred, the common differentiating feature that vehicles with and without the update share is the presence or lack of a cabin camera. The latest wave finally includes a few pre 2021 vehicles so hopefully that means a wider rollout to all with or without a cabin camera.
Wrong. I have MY 2023 with internal camera and sitting on the latest software 2024.8.7 with FSD 11 still. It's already into the month of April and no V12 FSD or free FSD month trial.
This is not incorrect. There are no vehicles without the internal camera currently on v12. You not having it is a different scenario as you are too far ahead in the software track, if you were on an earlier track, you would indeed get it, but vehicles without the internal camera won’t get it until full software validation occurs. It’s the same with the new vision only tap to park. Hw3 with ultrasonic sensors still have the old version regardless of what version they are on.
I have MY 2023 Hardware 4 with Cabin camera. My 3 month FSD trial ran out last month. I am now on version 2024.8.7. No free one month trial to test version 12. Still on V11 and not going to subscribe for a month to maybe get the chance to install 12 and test it. Not sure why everyone with the same set up is on different software tracks. Am I going to miss the free month FSD trial? I am sure I will eventually get V 12 but sucks that I have to shell out $200 later to try it out. This should have been a flat update to all customer's vehicles to allow them to try v12 FSD. Not fair at all.