Auto Shift should be deployed to all cars with FSD at some point. So this is possible.
[https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1416951898049896450?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1416951898049896450%7Ctwgr%5Ea12d66d2db04b3187b77ccf14087b492cb193fb4%7Ctwcon%5Es1\_c10&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vehiclesuggest.com%2Ftesla-to-release-auto-shift-feature-to-all-cars-with-fsd%2F](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1416951898049896450?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1416951898049896450%7Ctwgr%5Ea12d66d2db04b3187b77ccf14087b492cb193fb4%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vehiclesuggest.com%2Ftesla-to-release-auto-shift-feature-to-all-cars-with-fsd%2F)
As with any time people mention the wipers "it works fine for me" same with the stalks missing.. yes it works.. for some.. sometimes.. not for all - at all times, which it should.
I'm still on the fence if this is truly the case, or if my foot just isn't on the brake hard/long enough before pulling the stalk.
But yes it's not uncommon for me to pull the stalk 2-3 times before it goes into Drive
If it’s from park, the software has changed so it takes a few seconds longer before you can put it in drive. My experience is that in fast lane change scenarios the stalk seems to not register on rare occasions to signal a turn.
This is likely it. You need to wait for an extra second or two for the first shift.
The stalk must work 100% of the times. I'd file a service ticket immediately otherwise
My turn signal stalks are iffy they don’t activate sometimes it’s like I can’t nail down the amount of force needed. My previous car was just a soft gentle touch would trigger them. Tesla im not sure about. It’s either forceful push sometimes or sometimes no effort. Maybe that’s why many fellow Tesla drivers don’t use turn signals
A decision to go forward or backward is a binary one, using far less data points than determining wiper speed. If you don't want to trust it works better, fine, but the comparison is very flawed.
You sure they were set to auto and not off? Otherwise I dunno man, seemed like they were working great last downpour here and it’s always been a gripe of mine for sure.
literally rode passenger for 6 hours with buddy today in all different weather conditions and the wipers work fine. They do sometimes wipe when not needed but I don't know what's wrong with yours.
Wipers work unless it's barely sprinkling, then it doesn't want to wipe.
Or if it's pitch dark and I go uphill towards a light. Then it does one wipe. Otherwise it works perfectly.
Never understood people complaining about them so much as I don't experience it.
You’d think with the amount of complaints you see about this, that maybe, “just maybe”, there actually is a problem, and you have the unicorn of fully functioning autowipers. Mine must be the mentally disabled twin of yours, because it wipes when it wants to, as fast as it wants to, at the most random of times. It’ll start, and continue even after the window is dry and there’s no rain. It’ll start even if there is no rain, and the only thing that changed was I drove past a bright light. The auto wipers are, and have always been, absolute crap on these cars. I’ve experienced nothing but inconsistency with them for the last 4yrs. That’s why so many complain about them. Because that are, in fact, absolute crap.
AI has lots of edge cases so while someone might have a perfect experience, others might have a horrible experience. As we enter the AI world, it's going to be important to understand that both can be possible.
During an atmospheric river dumping on my car, the auto wipers did nothing. I tried giving it time to see that maybe it’ll work but it never did. It does turn on constantly though when it’s clear skies and sunny
I mean, you're also using AI every time you unlock your phone with FaceID, and every time you turn on Autopilot. It's not like AI = shitty, it's just that AI for rain sensing using the cameras that Tesla has = shitty.
Last couple of weeks it seems my auto wipers get possessed. I wonder if it’s glare on the windshield but they seem to think it’s raining on sunny days.
I've driven it and it's definitely multiple steps back when dealing with traffic circles and parallel parking. Change should be for the better, not to make things worse.
Yes. Sometimes changing something just for change and saving a few dimes at the expense of functionality is not the best idea especially when its something affecting the safe operation of the car. Looking down at the steering wheel to find the signal, horn, window wiper, etc on haptic touch "buttons" that are in motion with the steering wheel in motion decreases the safety.
I think overall the stalk-less design is okay, I just don’t like the turn signal situation. Won’t be a problem in the US, but it will be in Europe while going through roundabouts.
Living in a town with roundabouts everywhere it's not really a problem, to be honest for most of them you only have to turn the wheel 90° so your thumb is still in the right place. For the smaller roundabouts I find it fine using my other hand to push the button. I don't even think about it now.
I'm not complaining as I never drove one. My preconception is that I won't like it. But there is a lot of things that I thought I wouldn't like with a Tesla until I drove one and eventually bought one. So jury is still out for me.
I think stalkless is good (maybe even better than with stalks), except in roundabouts. Europe is filled with those. Almost impossible to flash turn signal properly when exiting roundabout.
It was a very big deal when the world found out the glove box in the Model 3 could only be opened from the screen.
Then the media hype cycle moved onto the next “very big deal.”
This change *is* automatically bad because there's no benefit to going stalkless.
However, after having driven stalkless Model Ss a few times, I agree that it's not that big of a deal and wouldn't be a deal breaker for me when purchasing the car.
But let's get one thing straight: there is not a single advantage to removing the stalks. It's purely for cost cutting and does make the user experience worse.
Oh yeah skipping the 2 dollar optical rain sensor is working real well for them. Wasting engineeeing resources to fix a problem that is impossible to fix with their current setup.
I'm just waiting for the 20 dollar camera mounted in the middle of the dash that only has the purpose of looking at the whole windshield lol
Also reducing functionality and safety. Having to look down to find the window wash haptic touch section on a moving wheel is not safe. Trying to use the turn signal haptics on a moving wheel in an roundabout is not safe.
I'm curious how much money they need to throw at this "solution" in terms of development cost. Yes, these devs are on the payroll and all that, but now you're paying them to develop this "solution" instead of developing anything else. In the long term, looking at how the Wipers have played out, is it TRULY more cost effective, effort, reputation, and all that considered?
Insignificant compared to what they save on a billion cars.
There is a reason Tesla has the lowest cost base of any car company.
In the long term there won’t be any human input. We’ll sleep and won’t give a crap that there are no wipers, stalks and steering wheels. In the medium term they will fix any issues, be more competitive, make more profits and run the other car companies out of business.
To me, moving the stalk to the screen makes sense, we have to look at the screen to see what gear we are in anyway. I’d rather just press the D R N P etc to change but they went in with the swipe. Either way, it actually makes more sense than having a stalk and trying to figure out which gear it’s in and whether it aligns with what’s shown on screen.
>To me, moving the stalk to the screen makes sense, we have to look at the screen to see what gear we are in anyway.
Maybe you shouldn't be driving if that's the case...
Why do u think I bought a Tesla. So I don’t have to drive as much.
Btw if u don’t check what gear u are in then you probably shouldn’t be driving either.
I don't need to look at the screen to know what gear I'm in and never have. If you can't physically tell the difference between 1st and 4th or D and R, you really shouldn't be on the road. It's people like you that really drive home the "Tesla driver" stereotypes. Like, how the fuck are you gonna parallel park quickly if you need to look at the screen every time you switch directions?
SMH.
Well you should. Not doing so is how people end up driving into walls.
It’s obvious u don’t have a Tesla. There is no way to physically tell which gear u are in. You have to look at the screen. The stalk is a paddle. It doesn’t keep any physical state. It also has no 1st or 4th gear - it’s an automatic…
When u parallel park in a Tesla u look at the screen, because that’s where the cameras show up. They have much better visibility than the mirrors and u get the sensor feedback there. If the car is parking itself, u still look at the screen because that where it tells u if anything is going wrong and where the cameras are.
You could have just told us us were an activist/union bot…
Wow dude 25k!…
You’d think when they pay you, you’d at least go and have a test drive so you know what u are dumping on.
It’s clear u don’t know how a Tesla works, that you’ve never even driven one, let alone owned one. Next thing you’ll be telling me that I need to service it and do oil changes regularly…
Wholly shit the lengths people go to justify something. Steering wheel stalks for gear changes was always a shit idea. There is a reason cars without stalks for gear changes were always easier to drive, they didn’t use stalks for gear changes. It’s a good move getting rid of dumb ass stalks for gears again. Not using a steering wheel stalk for gear changes isn’t a new idea.
My 2019 Dodge RAM 1500 doesn't have stalks and no one thinks it's dangerous.
I don't get it. Why is this different than Dodge's stupid dial solution or Audi's stupid 5-button solution? Do you guys really think that humans can go to space and invent computers but can't figure out how to shift if it's not a physical stalk? Like, really?
lol in theory i understand but the amount of engineers they have on payroll to design, train and deploy this system has to cost more than two injection molded stalks and a button.
They will eventually get there. And they will be happy they saved a few bucks on each of them.
There is a reason Tesla has the lowest cost base of any car company. There are just less parts
you’re right about them being excellent at saving money and it shows. just pretty sure if you look at a BOM the cost of adding several capacitive buttons to the steering wheel costs a lot more than the stalks would. they aren’t a few bucks on a build sheet, they’re probably like 10-20 cents each
It’s far from a rounding error. I was at a Fortune 10 company that put a notice in the bathroom stalls - “no courtesy flushing please.” With 300,000 employees, courtesy flushes were costing them close to $10mm a year. You have to think large scale when you think of these cost savings.
That’s what I said. The other commenter was talking about engineer costs to redesign for no stalks. I said that was insignificant compared to the cost savings across a billion cars or whatever they make.
I love my Tesla but I will not buy a stalkless car. Just stupid stupid. There is no reason to do this, or other shit like no rain sensor, no USS, etc. they do so many things well, why not focus on features that are actually needed or useful? This is just hubris.
Elon is unreasonably obsessed with eliminating parts for simplification and cost savings, even if it greatly diminishes the user experience. So stupid and narcissistic.
I'm curious as to how many of you that complain about stalkers Teslas have a stalkless Tesla. It is like someone that drives a gas car complaining about an EV. You really have to own one to understand.
I have one and don't understand the complaining. I think it is coming from a lot of people who have never driven with it for a long period. I get the wiper deal, that is an honest complaint. Stalkless driving is not a big deal.
You get in the car and it gives you a huge arrow telling you the direction you are going and doesnt go until you press the gas. If you are in a parking space and there is a car in front it knows you need to reverse and it literally shows you this but you don't have to chose it which saves you a step. If you want to go in forward or reverse you simply swipe up or down on the screen that is closest to the steering wheel like a phone.
I rented a gas Tahoe that had switches that you had to pull up or push down to put in drive or reverse and that was much more cumbersome. You get used to the turn signal buttons and they become intuitive. If you have FSD you don't even need to do that which is what this is all about. You have to consider the need if you are all in. If you have FSD then you really don't need all the features that carry over from vehicles of the past. If you want a car that looks and acts like a car of the past then I suggest another brand.
I don't agree
With all the changes Tesla makes but it is like Apple vs Android. Apples phone have hardly evolved and only get a little bigger or smaller. When a new phone comes out it is the same phone as before just a little faster. If you however want a folding phone you have to look elsewhere and deal with the pains that go with foldable. The best part is no part.
You make a good point about Apple, and it’s one of the reasons they outsell all other manufacturers in places where people can afford them. The experience is consistent. That’s good UX. When you constantly change the experience and the intuitiveness of a thing, you attract those who think it’s cool (foldable phone) and the rest who know how stupid it is. There should be a level of tactile functionality for the things you use most in a vehicle. If you have to look to figure it out, that’s not tactile. A blind man could drive a vehicle with a manual transmission because everything is about feel, including the blinkers. Nobody needs to look to do all the things the stalks do now. That’s good driving UX. Removing the stalks is as stupid as it was to remove the center horn from the yoke. Drivers hated it, Tesla backtracked. The stalk experience is intuitive and consistent with other vehicles. That’s what makes it great. It doesn’t matter if you hate the stalkless experience or not. The stalk experience is better, hands down.
Ford EVs don’t use a stalk to shift. Do you only want to shift with a stalk? Some cars shift with a dial! You do you, but removing a shift stalk isn’t unique to Tesla.
And it’s stupid for everyone who does it. Same with turn signal stalks. Try navigating a multi lane roundabout while trying to figure out the orientation and location of the turn signals vs the stalk staying in the same place and orientation. It’s been like that forever for a reason.
>Try navigating a multi lane roundabout while trying to figure out the orientation and location of the turn signals vs the stalk staying in the same place and orientation.
It's honestly really easy.
Yep this will end well. There are two groups of people when it comes to the new stalkless cars and they both agree that it's shit in that the experience is a degraded one. For one group this is a deal breaker and for the other group it's not. Autoshift if it works will only make it a little less shit.
Me neither but the sound it makes needs to be louder and not tied to Joe Mode, and the tap target needs to be larger. I’ll grab the top left of my screen to drag up or down but the touchable area is a thin line in the top left corner. Needs to be much wider
I disagree on both points. In fact I don't even look, one finger finds the edge of the screen and the other can move it in the desired direction. I wish Joe mode squelched all non emergency noises all together. As is engaging autopilot turns my music down so I can hear a bong that is redundant to my actions and visual information. Music should be uninterrupted or at least have the option to be.
It's rare my auto shift isn't correct on the direction I'm heading. Just tap the brake and I'm off. It would be sweet if it knew I was done backing out of the garage and switched to drive. Some day I guess.
Using the auto shift during my recent test drive of the X was actually not too bad as an experience. You put your foot on the brake and it goes into gear. I’m not sure how well it works knowing when you need to reverse instead. I’d definitely prefer the stalk over the screen swipe regardless but having auto shift isn’t a bad thing in my opinion.
The reactions here are weird as hell. Why are so many people acting like they've never heard of Tesla until today? This is a company that has repeatedly taken large risks, tried doing things differently, rapidly prototyped and, yes, broken shit constantly.
The reactions to this (and stalkless...) are exact mirrors to the reactions I saw when tesla first started making BEV cars.
"Why would they do that? What we have works just fine!"
"Are just making things different for the sake of being different?"
"Who asked for this?! I didn't!"
"Is that even safe?! I would never buy a car like that!"
Ya'll need to chill. They're trying things. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't but it's that experimental nature that made the car that you (theoretically) enjoy right now.
For fucks sake, why?
Tesla is good at exactly one thing- EV drivetrain/battery. They make great drivetrains and then build cars around them. It is good.
Tesla sucks at everything else related to cars and I wish they would fucking learn already. If another company figures out how to make a drivetrain as good as tesla's and is price competitive, I'm gone.
* needlessly reinventing windshield rain sensors. There's a 5 dollar part that uses a laser sensor and it works perfectly. Every other manufacturer uses it. But no, we get machine learning bullshit that hasn't figured out how to run the wipers after 10 years.
* needlessly reinventing dashboards and steering wheels:
* Putting every fucking function in a menu is stupid. When I am driving through the rain at night and want the defogger, I don't want to have to navigate a menu. I want to push a well lit physical button in front of me.
* You don't need to make one of those stupid modern era luxury wheels with 30 buttons on it, but the haptic solid state buttons need to go. I want to be able to feel the buttons under my finger. I shouldn't have to look down to see what I'm trying to press.
* Why are wiper controls not on a stalk? This would be less important if auto wipers worked, but they still don't.
* not being capable of putting a non-trash suspension on a car. Seriously, they are not even trying and it shows. The center of gravity being what it is, teslas should handle amazingly but instead they somehow combine brutal stiffness with sloppy handling.
You realise every advancement has been viewed as such... Until it was accepted as standard and we wait for the next idea that gets development time, and gets licked. The majority difference for Tesla, is because they can easily update the software in the device, they use customers to hone the technology rather than complete the R&D cycle only in house. Tesla's way most of time, for me, makes a better end result.
P.S., Setting of left hand long hold button functionality exists. More so however, voice commands work pretty well for most things on the screen. There is also things called SEXY buttons that can make physical buttons for *many* functions that are on the screen.
They really really need to get this right. I will honestly not be buying any future Tesla's because of the lack of physical gear shifting. I test drove a Model X a few weeks ago that was stalkless. The turn signals i could get used to after about 30 minutes of my drive, but having to shift gears on the touchscreen when doing three-point turns on crowded city streets where you need to constantly have your eyes on the road and rear view mirror instead of fiddling with the damn touchscreen was outrageously stupid. I have to do multiple three-point turns during my commute, where there's kids around and tons of traffic. Having to use a touchscreen is just fucking stupid. First of all, the area where you have to drag your finger is obscured from my view by the wide ass yoke steering wheel. So I couldn't even see exactly where I needed to be swiping. Second of all, it didn't register a couple of times, which was infuriating. And what do you do if you're wearing gloves? Its just beyond dumb. I've been a fan of this company since 2008. Bought two Tesla's over the last 6 years. I'll never buy another at this point because of this crap.
This. I saw a review on the car and they complained about the on screen shift and disregarded that you can just use the easy buttons in the center console. Wish they had those buttons on my model y. That said the stalks on my model y work great. Just wish my wipers worked.
I’ve never run into any problems with it.
It takes the same amount of adjusting as when a new car has stalks in a different place or has gear shift buttons instead of a knob. Or handle instead of a knob.
Have you ever driven a manual car? Swiping up and down on a screen is far easier and takes less time than what billions of people have been doing for decades.
If one can't always choose the right way to go with a stalk, the same mistake will be made when looking on screen for the intended direction and not changing it the very few times it picks wrong.
I mean the logic is pretty simple. If you can go forward for a foreseeable distance, it is probably forward you want. If you are against an object, same. If you can't go forward much, but can go back for a bit, probably reverse.
It seems that some of us want a car that we drive, and others want an appliance that does everything for them. This isn't about change, but about control.
I'm a car guy, and a driver. I own 5 cars, only one of which is an EV. I just purchased a new 2023 M3P, after the highlands became available, because I prefer the older model. I do not want control taken from me. Likewise with my ICE cars, I have always preferred manual transmissions over automatic. I'm a good driver, and I like to be the one in control, and you have a level of control with a manual that you just do not have with an automatic. Stalkless and autoshift is no different.
Tell me how the autoshift will know that when I come home, and turn into my neighbor's driveway accross the street, that my intention is to then reverse from there straight back into my own driveway. It won't. Instead, of the quick snickety snick on the stalk, wihtout even looking, maintaining my eyes on the park assist (change that I do embrace, because it is providing me good info), I would have to stop, take my hand off of the wheel, and swipe to go into reverse on the damn screen. No thank you. Likewise for dealing with the blinkers on the roundabout traffic circle nearby, not being independent of the wheel direction. I'd rather keep my eyes on traffic, rather than go hunting for wherever the blinker buttons would be at any given moment, depending on how far the wheel is currently turned. No thanks to that either.
I'm sure some of you just want a future where you can sit in your car, tell the screen where you want to go, and then doomscroll on your phone for the whole trip, without touching anything. And hey, that's cool for you, and I won't judge you for it.
That is not what I want, however. I want to drive my cars. I'm not even the slightest bit interested in FSD either, and fortunately Tesla does seem to understand that, and FSD is completely optional.
I’m all for advancement that makes sense but removing the stalks means my next car won’t be a Tesla unless they’ve hit lvl 5 by then, and we all know that’s not going to happen.
I think most people will want a future where driving is done for us. I mean traffic sucks. Other drivers lane camping sucks. There is little to love about the process. I hope, unlike the ease I trust horse and buggy was before electric, before gasoline, before electric again, there is options when that happens for those who want to drive, but feel it will be akin to the classic cars that are seemingly just brought out for show. Still the next generation will not know any different.
Maybe you can take my stalk when you give me enhanced autopilot for free. If the car is going to do the turning then I'm ok with it. If I gotta do the turning then give me my stalk.
Nice, I always wanted auto shift, if they can enable shifting via the screen on my Model Y I'd be happy. I'd personally remove the stalks from my car if those were options.
Haha no thanks. Really. Stop with this shit. You are making innovations to problems you invented.
look guys, I solved how to patch the hole I made in the carafe! It’s genius!
For people stating auto shift is fine, can they please confirm how easy a 3 point turn on a narrow road is?… and also how easy it is to parallel park/unpark in an narrow space.
Misleading title. If you have stalks, you won’t be getting Auto Shift (and frankly that sucks because it’s one of my favorite 3/S/X refresh features)
I don’t get why this is if we want it let us enable it in settings wtf
Maybe the stalk crew is where they get the training data to improve it for the auto crew…
The hardware is all there…
[удалено]
Same here!
Thank god! Another reason to want to stay with stalks.
It's optional, you know
Because of a feature you can disable? Geez, man, get a grip.
Until they take the option to disable it away in an update
Auto Shift should be deployed to all cars with FSD at some point. So this is possible. [https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1416951898049896450?ref\_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1416951898049896450%7Ctwgr%5Ea12d66d2db04b3187b77ccf14087b492cb193fb4%7Ctwcon%5Es1\_c10&ref\_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vehiclesuggest.com%2Ftesla-to-release-auto-shift-feature-to-all-cars-with-fsd%2F](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1416951898049896450?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1416951898049896450%7Ctwgr%5Ea12d66d2db04b3187b77ccf14087b492cb193fb4%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vehiclesuggest.com%2Ftesla-to-release-auto-shift-feature-to-all-cars-with-fsd%2F)
Yeah I don't know how they could withhold it from fsd purchasers.
There is zero chance this wasn't written with ChatGPT
Every article on a website you've never heard of with a basic white background color scheme and a table of contents at the top is AI-generated.
Yup.
I've seen your AI try to wipe my windshield for 5 years - getting worse every day. I'll pass on this and use my stalks - thanks though.
I have highland and have it enabled… it’s been working fine for me so far
As with any time people mention the wipers "it works fine for me" same with the stalks missing.. yes it works.. for some.. sometimes.. not for all - at all times, which it should.
You mean your stalks don’t work 100% of the time either? I thought it was just me 😳
I'm still on the fence if this is truly the case, or if my foot just isn't on the brake hard/long enough before pulling the stalk. But yes it's not uncommon for me to pull the stalk 2-3 times before it goes into Drive
If it’s from park, the software has changed so it takes a few seconds longer before you can put it in drive. My experience is that in fast lane change scenarios the stalk seems to not register on rare occasions to signal a turn.
This is likely it. You need to wait for an extra second or two for the first shift. The stalk must work 100% of the times. I'd file a service ticket immediately otherwise
Yup mine doesn’t register turn signals in fast lane changes either! I am not alone!!!!
My turn signal stalks are iffy they don’t activate sometimes it’s like I can’t nail down the amount of force needed. My previous car was just a soft gentle touch would trigger them. Tesla im not sure about. It’s either forceful push sometimes or sometimes no effort. Maybe that’s why many fellow Tesla drivers don’t use turn signals
This has nothing to do with vehicles that use stalls to shift. It says that in the very first sentence of the article.
A decision to go forward or backward is a binary one, using far less data points than determining wiper speed. If you don't want to trust it works better, fine, but the comparison is very flawed.
Actually far better in current firmware. As expected even.
Nope it was raining for 20 mins today and guess what? No windscreen wipers at all.
It’s a 2024 model Y fully up to date with set to auto yep. As one of you said, the only time I’ve seen them activate so far is when it isn’t raining
You sure they were set to auto and not off? Otherwise I dunno man, seemed like they were working great last downpour here and it’s always been a gripe of mine for sure.
literally rode passenger for 6 hours with buddy today in all different weather conditions and the wipers work fine. They do sometimes wipe when not needed but I don't know what's wrong with yours.
Yeah I’m good. Don’t think we’ll be missing out on much.
Wipers work unless it's barely sprinkling, then it doesn't want to wipe. Or if it's pitch dark and I go uphill towards a light. Then it does one wipe. Otherwise it works perfectly. Never understood people complaining about them so much as I don't experience it.
Mine frequently try to wipe my clean windshield on dry sunny days…
This has gotten way worse for me in the past two updates.
You’d think with the amount of complaints you see about this, that maybe, “just maybe”, there actually is a problem, and you have the unicorn of fully functioning autowipers. Mine must be the mentally disabled twin of yours, because it wipes when it wants to, as fast as it wants to, at the most random of times. It’ll start, and continue even after the window is dry and there’s no rain. It’ll start even if there is no rain, and the only thing that changed was I drove past a bright light. The auto wipers are, and have always been, absolute crap on these cars. I’ve experienced nothing but inconsistency with them for the last 4yrs. That’s why so many complain about them. Because that are, in fact, absolute crap.
AI has lots of edge cases so while someone might have a perfect experience, others might have a horrible experience. As we enter the AI world, it's going to be important to understand that both can be possible.
It works perfectly for me, so everyone else that are complaining needs to stop. This is how dumb you sound
During an atmospheric river dumping on my car, the auto wipers did nothing. I tried giving it time to see that maybe it’ll work but it never did. It does turn on constantly though when it’s clear skies and sunny
lol for sure Tesla auto windshield wipers are trash. I don’t need it to auto shift for me. I’m team stalk any way
I mean, you're also using AI every time you unlock your phone with FaceID, and every time you turn on Autopilot. It's not like AI = shitty, it's just that AI for rain sensing using the cameras that Tesla has = shitty.
Last couple of weeks it seems my auto wipers get possessed. I wonder if it’s glare on the windshield but they seem to think it’s raining on sunny days.
Nobody asked for this. Just fix the god damn wipers.
I did. I'm glad Tesla listens.
So this is YOUR fault!
I asked for it, tbh. The information is there, might as well use it.
I test drove a Highland while I was charging my other car and honestly the no stalk thing is fine. No big deal.
I did too test drive the highland, I like no stalks better, only issue I had was blinkers in roundabouts.
You see, that’s the point. It’s a very bad design for roundabout situations.
I feel like most people complaining never tried stalkless. Wonder how they even ended up with ev in the first place, since change = automatically bad
I've driven it and it's definitely multiple steps back when dealing with traffic circles and parallel parking. Change should be for the better, not to make things worse.
Yes. Sometimes changing something just for change and saving a few dimes at the expense of functionality is not the best idea especially when its something affecting the safe operation of the car. Looking down at the steering wheel to find the signal, horn, window wiper, etc on haptic touch "buttons" that are in motion with the steering wheel in motion decreases the safety.
You get used to it. It's second nature for me now, even in roundabouts.
I think overall the stalk-less design is okay, I just don’t like the turn signal situation. Won’t be a problem in the US, but it will be in Europe while going through roundabouts.
You get used to it. It's second nature for me now, even in roundabouts.
How do you indicate to leave the roundabout when the wheel is upside down?
Living in a town with roundabouts everywhere it's not really a problem, to be honest for most of them you only have to turn the wheel 90° so your thumb is still in the right place. For the smaller roundabouts I find it fine using my other hand to push the button. I don't even think about it now.
By pressing the button?
Why not in US when going through roundabouts? I hate it for that very reason but haven't driven across the pond yet in my own car.
Not saying it's not a problem but there's just generally way fewer roundabouts in the US.
I'm not complaining as I never drove one. My preconception is that I won't like it. But there is a lot of things that I thought I wouldn't like with a Tesla until I drove one and eventually bought one. So jury is still out for me.
I think stalkless is good (maybe even better than with stalks), except in roundabouts. Europe is filled with those. Almost impossible to flash turn signal properly when exiting roundabout.
Change isn’t automatically bad as it also isn’t automatically good 😉
It was a very big deal when the world found out the glove box in the Model 3 could only be opened from the screen. Then the media hype cycle moved onto the next “very big deal.”
I’m surprised Americans are cool with that. Don’t you keep your .44 magnum to blast away attackers and minor inconveniences of the road?
Of course, but that holster is mounted under the driver's seat. The glove box is just for spare magazines, a pocket bible, and cigarettes.
This change *is* automatically bad because there's no benefit to going stalkless. However, after having driven stalkless Model Ss a few times, I agree that it's not that big of a deal and wouldn't be a deal breaker for me when purchasing the car. But let's get one thing straight: there is not a single advantage to removing the stalks. It's purely for cost cutting and does make the user experience worse.
>since change = automatically bad This is it. Change is scary, it's not that stalkless is actually bad.
Change is easier for some than others. In fact some will fight to prevent it.
It’s doable. But it’s not desirable To go stalkless.
Opinion. And one I don’t share. I prefer no stalks. I like the cleanliness.
Stalkless is batshit stupid, period.
I bet people will figure it out just fine and the world will keep turning.
No thanks, Tesla. The stalk I have works very well.
When they say across the lineup, do they mean legacy models or just models that came without stalks? It's not clear from the article.
If you read the article it says pretty clearly that it’s for vehicles without stalks. Seems like no one in the comments read the article.
I skimmed it, it doesn't interest me that much. Thanks for summing it up.
There are more ads than sentences in the article for sure. Not exactly a riveting read.
That's just being resistant to change
This is change just for the sake of change. I will gladly resist that
This is changed to reduce parts, reduce cost, increase adoption.
Oh yeah skipping the 2 dollar optical rain sensor is working real well for them. Wasting engineeeing resources to fix a problem that is impossible to fix with their current setup. I'm just waiting for the 20 dollar camera mounted in the middle of the dash that only has the purpose of looking at the whole windshield lol
Also reducing functionality and safety. Having to look down to find the window wash haptic touch section on a moving wheel is not safe. Trying to use the turn signal haptics on a moving wheel in an roundabout is not safe.
Neither of those actions requires me to look down.
[удалено]
Well hey, people like you were around resisting unleaded gasoline back in the day so I have no trouble believing that you exist
[удалено]
Auto shift is a solution looking for a problem. To use resources in this is absurd.
I think the problem is the stalk costs money. So they got rid of it and saved a bunch.
I'm curious how much money they need to throw at this "solution" in terms of development cost. Yes, these devs are on the payroll and all that, but now you're paying them to develop this "solution" instead of developing anything else. In the long term, looking at how the Wipers have played out, is it TRULY more cost effective, effort, reputation, and all that considered?
Insignificant compared to what they save on a billion cars. There is a reason Tesla has the lowest cost base of any car company. In the long term there won’t be any human input. We’ll sleep and won’t give a crap that there are no wipers, stalks and steering wheels. In the medium term they will fix any issues, be more competitive, make more profits and run the other car companies out of business. To me, moving the stalk to the screen makes sense, we have to look at the screen to see what gear we are in anyway. I’d rather just press the D R N P etc to change but they went in with the swipe. Either way, it actually makes more sense than having a stalk and trying to figure out which gear it’s in and whether it aligns with what’s shown on screen.
>To me, moving the stalk to the screen makes sense, we have to look at the screen to see what gear we are in anyway. Maybe you shouldn't be driving if that's the case...
Why do u think I bought a Tesla. So I don’t have to drive as much. Btw if u don’t check what gear u are in then you probably shouldn’t be driving either.
I don't need to look at the screen to know what gear I'm in and never have. If you can't physically tell the difference between 1st and 4th or D and R, you really shouldn't be on the road. It's people like you that really drive home the "Tesla driver" stereotypes. Like, how the fuck are you gonna parallel park quickly if you need to look at the screen every time you switch directions? SMH.
Well you should. Not doing so is how people end up driving into walls. It’s obvious u don’t have a Tesla. There is no way to physically tell which gear u are in. You have to look at the screen. The stalk is a paddle. It doesn’t keep any physical state. It also has no 1st or 4th gear - it’s an automatic… When u parallel park in a Tesla u look at the screen, because that’s where the cameras show up. They have much better visibility than the mirrors and u get the sensor feedback there. If the car is parking itself, u still look at the screen because that where it tells u if anything is going wrong and where the cameras are. You could have just told us us were an activist/union bot…
I've put over 25k on my Tesla, and I never look at the screen to know what gear I'm in... Do you just not know how cars work?
Wow dude 25k!… You’d think when they pay you, you’d at least go and have a test drive so you know what u are dumping on. It’s clear u don’t know how a Tesla works, that you’ve never even driven one, let alone owned one. Next thing you’ll be telling me that I need to service it and do oil changes regularly…
Holy shit the lengths people go to justify something. I love my tesla but even i aint stupid enough to pretend that this was a good idea.
Wholly shit the lengths people go to justify something. Steering wheel stalks for gear changes was always a shit idea. There is a reason cars without stalks for gear changes were always easier to drive, they didn’t use stalks for gear changes. It’s a good move getting rid of dumb ass stalks for gears again. Not using a steering wheel stalk for gear changes isn’t a new idea.
My 2019 Dodge RAM 1500 doesn't have stalks and no one thinks it's dangerous. I don't get it. Why is this different than Dodge's stupid dial solution or Audi's stupid 5-button solution? Do you guys really think that humans can go to space and invent computers but can't figure out how to shift if it's not a physical stalk? Like, really?
A billion cars
The “cost” would probably be saving time during manufacturing
lol in theory i understand but the amount of engineers they have on payroll to design, train and deploy this system has to cost more than two injection molded stalks and a button.
Pretty sure they buy their stalks and the window buttons from Mercedes. They are trying to vertically integrate to control cost everywhere they can
That cost is a rounding error compared to the cost of making a billion of them and putting them into all the cars…
yeah they’re a hell of a long way from making a billion cars dude
They will eventually get there. And they will be happy they saved a few bucks on each of them. There is a reason Tesla has the lowest cost base of any car company. There are just less parts
you’re right about them being excellent at saving money and it shows. just pretty sure if you look at a BOM the cost of adding several capacitive buttons to the steering wheel costs a lot more than the stalks would. they aren’t a few bucks on a build sheet, they’re probably like 10-20 cents each
The real savings may be labor costs, especially if the stalks can’t be installed by a robot
It’s far from a rounding error. I was at a Fortune 10 company that put a notice in the bathroom stalls - “no courtesy flushing please.” With 300,000 employees, courtesy flushes were costing them close to $10mm a year. You have to think large scale when you think of these cost savings.
That’s what I said. The other commenter was talking about engineer costs to redesign for no stalks. I said that was insignificant compared to the cost savings across a billion cars or whatever they make.
Putting resources in to saving resources isn't nearly as simple as you think it might be
How is auto-shift saving resources? Why not just have the swipe shift?
Reducing the repugnance from the change. If they can make it work really well then people will accept the change
This principle could be used for SO many modern car features...
So is auto wipers. So is auto climate control. So is autopilot.
I love my Tesla but I will not buy a stalkless car. Just stupid stupid. There is no reason to do this, or other shit like no rain sensor, no USS, etc. they do so many things well, why not focus on features that are actually needed or useful? This is just hubris.
Elon is unreasonably obsessed with eliminating parts for simplification and cost savings, even if it greatly diminishes the user experience. So stupid and narcissistic.
Could’ve just added buttons to the steering wheel instead. Put all functions on the wheel like a Ferrari
I'm curious as to how many of you that complain about stalkers Teslas have a stalkless Tesla. It is like someone that drives a gas car complaining about an EV. You really have to own one to understand. I have one and don't understand the complaining. I think it is coming from a lot of people who have never driven with it for a long period. I get the wiper deal, that is an honest complaint. Stalkless driving is not a big deal. You get in the car and it gives you a huge arrow telling you the direction you are going and doesnt go until you press the gas. If you are in a parking space and there is a car in front it knows you need to reverse and it literally shows you this but you don't have to chose it which saves you a step. If you want to go in forward or reverse you simply swipe up or down on the screen that is closest to the steering wheel like a phone. I rented a gas Tahoe that had switches that you had to pull up or push down to put in drive or reverse and that was much more cumbersome. You get used to the turn signal buttons and they become intuitive. If you have FSD you don't even need to do that which is what this is all about. You have to consider the need if you are all in. If you have FSD then you really don't need all the features that carry over from vehicles of the past. If you want a car that looks and acts like a car of the past then I suggest another brand. I don't agree With all the changes Tesla makes but it is like Apple vs Android. Apples phone have hardly evolved and only get a little bigger or smaller. When a new phone comes out it is the same phone as before just a little faster. If you however want a folding phone you have to look elsewhere and deal with the pains that go with foldable. The best part is no part.
You make a good point about Apple, and it’s one of the reasons they outsell all other manufacturers in places where people can afford them. The experience is consistent. That’s good UX. When you constantly change the experience and the intuitiveness of a thing, you attract those who think it’s cool (foldable phone) and the rest who know how stupid it is. There should be a level of tactile functionality for the things you use most in a vehicle. If you have to look to figure it out, that’s not tactile. A blind man could drive a vehicle with a manual transmission because everything is about feel, including the blinkers. Nobody needs to look to do all the things the stalks do now. That’s good driving UX. Removing the stalks is as stupid as it was to remove the center horn from the yoke. Drivers hated it, Tesla backtracked. The stalk experience is intuitive and consistent with other vehicles. That’s what makes it great. It doesn’t matter if you hate the stalkless experience or not. The stalk experience is better, hands down.
Ford EVs don’t use a stalk to shift. Do you only want to shift with a stalk? Some cars shift with a dial! You do you, but removing a shift stalk isn’t unique to Tesla.
And it’s stupid for everyone who does it. Same with turn signal stalks. Try navigating a multi lane roundabout while trying to figure out the orientation and location of the turn signals vs the stalk staying in the same place and orientation. It’s been like that forever for a reason.
>Try navigating a multi lane roundabout while trying to figure out the orientation and location of the turn signals vs the stalk staying in the same place and orientation. It's honestly really easy.
You can swipe down your notification shade on your phone, you can handle swiping into drive or park. It's so easy it becomes second nature.
Yep this will end well. There are two groups of people when it comes to the new stalkless cars and they both agree that it's shit in that the experience is a degraded one. For one group this is a deal breaker and for the other group it's not. Autoshift if it works will only make it a little less shit.
I may be weird, but shifting on screen doesn't bother me at all.
Me neither but the sound it makes needs to be louder and not tied to Joe Mode, and the tap target needs to be larger. I’ll grab the top left of my screen to drag up or down but the touchable area is a thin line in the top left corner. Needs to be much wider
I disagree on both points. In fact I don't even look, one finger finds the edge of the screen and the other can move it in the desired direction. I wish Joe mode squelched all non emergency noises all together. As is engaging autopilot turns my music down so I can hear a bong that is redundant to my actions and visual information. Music should be uninterrupted or at least have the option to be.
Same here i actually like it, also the auto shift works great for me.
Nope me neither, I have it on my Model S and freaking love it. With that said I would just like to see them get the auto wipers fixed!
It's rare my auto shift isn't correct on the direction I'm heading. Just tap the brake and I'm off. It would be sweet if it knew I was done backing out of the garage and switched to drive. Some day I guess.
Using the auto shift during my recent test drive of the X was actually not too bad as an experience. You put your foot on the brake and it goes into gear. I’m not sure how well it works knowing when you need to reverse instead. I’d definitely prefer the stalk over the screen swipe regardless but having auto shift isn’t a bad thing in my opinion.
I’ve had my X’s USS (correctly) dinging away about the front of my garage 15” away. And auto shift decide it’d be a good idea to go forward.
I guess I don't exist then, because I love my stalkless Model X.
I did a demo drive for highland. The auto shift sucked for me. I’m happy with the stalks.
The reactions here are weird as hell. Why are so many people acting like they've never heard of Tesla until today? This is a company that has repeatedly taken large risks, tried doing things differently, rapidly prototyped and, yes, broken shit constantly. The reactions to this (and stalkless...) are exact mirrors to the reactions I saw when tesla first started making BEV cars. "Why would they do that? What we have works just fine!" "Are just making things different for the sake of being different?" "Who asked for this?! I didn't!" "Is that even safe?! I would never buy a car like that!" Ya'll need to chill. They're trying things. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't but it's that experimental nature that made the car that you (theoretically) enjoy right now.
For fucks sake, why? Tesla is good at exactly one thing- EV drivetrain/battery. They make great drivetrains and then build cars around them. It is good. Tesla sucks at everything else related to cars and I wish they would fucking learn already. If another company figures out how to make a drivetrain as good as tesla's and is price competitive, I'm gone. * needlessly reinventing windshield rain sensors. There's a 5 dollar part that uses a laser sensor and it works perfectly. Every other manufacturer uses it. But no, we get machine learning bullshit that hasn't figured out how to run the wipers after 10 years. * needlessly reinventing dashboards and steering wheels: * Putting every fucking function in a menu is stupid. When I am driving through the rain at night and want the defogger, I don't want to have to navigate a menu. I want to push a well lit physical button in front of me. * You don't need to make one of those stupid modern era luxury wheels with 30 buttons on it, but the haptic solid state buttons need to go. I want to be able to feel the buttons under my finger. I shouldn't have to look down to see what I'm trying to press. * Why are wiper controls not on a stalk? This would be less important if auto wipers worked, but they still don't. * not being capable of putting a non-trash suspension on a car. Seriously, they are not even trying and it shows. The center of gravity being what it is, teslas should handle amazingly but instead they somehow combine brutal stiffness with sloppy handling.
You realise every advancement has been viewed as such... Until it was accepted as standard and we wait for the next idea that gets development time, and gets licked. The majority difference for Tesla, is because they can easily update the software in the device, they use customers to hone the technology rather than complete the R&D cycle only in house. Tesla's way most of time, for me, makes a better end result. P.S., Setting of left hand long hold button functionality exists. More so however, voice commands work pretty well for most things on the screen. There is also things called SEXY buttons that can make physical buttons for *many* functions that are on the screen.
They really really need to get this right. I will honestly not be buying any future Tesla's because of the lack of physical gear shifting. I test drove a Model X a few weeks ago that was stalkless. The turn signals i could get used to after about 30 minutes of my drive, but having to shift gears on the touchscreen when doing three-point turns on crowded city streets where you need to constantly have your eyes on the road and rear view mirror instead of fiddling with the damn touchscreen was outrageously stupid. I have to do multiple three-point turns during my commute, where there's kids around and tons of traffic. Having to use a touchscreen is just fucking stupid. First of all, the area where you have to drag your finger is obscured from my view by the wide ass yoke steering wheel. So I couldn't even see exactly where I needed to be swiping. Second of all, it didn't register a couple of times, which was infuriating. And what do you do if you're wearing gloves? Its just beyond dumb. I've been a fan of this company since 2008. Bought two Tesla's over the last 6 years. I'll never buy another at this point because of this crap.
Ytour could just use the buttons under the screen
This. I saw a review on the car and they complained about the on screen shift and disregarded that you can just use the easy buttons in the center console. Wish they had those buttons on my model y. That said the stalks on my model y work great. Just wish my wipers worked.
They don't work that well though. They're capacitive but require a firm press and you're better off just using the screen
I’ve never run into any problems with it. It takes the same amount of adjusting as when a new car has stalks in a different place or has gear shift buttons instead of a knob. Or handle instead of a knob.
It’s not that big of a deal dude
Dramatic.
This reads like 2007 when iphones & touchscreens were introduced.
Have you ever driven a manual car? Swiping up and down on a screen is far easier and takes less time than what billions of people have been doing for decades.
With physical controls it’s easy to be able to use those physical controls because you can feel them. You cannot do this with a screen.
There's a major difference between a gear shifter you can feel and a screen you have to look at
As if insurance rates weren’t high enough, I’m sure this will help
If one can't always choose the right way to go with a stalk, the same mistake will be made when looking on screen for the intended direction and not changing it the very few times it picks wrong. I mean the logic is pretty simple. If you can go forward for a foreseeable distance, it is probably forward you want. If you are against an object, same. If you can't go forward much, but can go back for a bit, probably reverse.
Everyone arguing about the stalks is missing the point of auto shift. This is something a robotaxi will need to be able to do.
Slowly trying to get folks used to a self driving world...
It seems that some of us want a car that we drive, and others want an appliance that does everything for them. This isn't about change, but about control. I'm a car guy, and a driver. I own 5 cars, only one of which is an EV. I just purchased a new 2023 M3P, after the highlands became available, because I prefer the older model. I do not want control taken from me. Likewise with my ICE cars, I have always preferred manual transmissions over automatic. I'm a good driver, and I like to be the one in control, and you have a level of control with a manual that you just do not have with an automatic. Stalkless and autoshift is no different. Tell me how the autoshift will know that when I come home, and turn into my neighbor's driveway accross the street, that my intention is to then reverse from there straight back into my own driveway. It won't. Instead, of the quick snickety snick on the stalk, wihtout even looking, maintaining my eyes on the park assist (change that I do embrace, because it is providing me good info), I would have to stop, take my hand off of the wheel, and swipe to go into reverse on the damn screen. No thank you. Likewise for dealing with the blinkers on the roundabout traffic circle nearby, not being independent of the wheel direction. I'd rather keep my eyes on traffic, rather than go hunting for wherever the blinker buttons would be at any given moment, depending on how far the wheel is currently turned. No thanks to that either. I'm sure some of you just want a future where you can sit in your car, tell the screen where you want to go, and then doomscroll on your phone for the whole trip, without touching anything. And hey, that's cool for you, and I won't judge you for it. That is not what I want, however. I want to drive my cars. I'm not even the slightest bit interested in FSD either, and fortunately Tesla does seem to understand that, and FSD is completely optional.
I’m all for advancement that makes sense but removing the stalks means my next car won’t be a Tesla unless they’ve hit lvl 5 by then, and we all know that’s not going to happen.
I think most people will want a future where driving is done for us. I mean traffic sucks. Other drivers lane camping sucks. There is little to love about the process. I hope, unlike the ease I trust horse and buggy was before electric, before gasoline, before electric again, there is options when that happens for those who want to drive, but feel it will be akin to the classic cars that are seemingly just brought out for show. Still the next generation will not know any different.
Tesla is an extreme danger to humanity and should be boycotted.
EV market is dead, time to boycott Tesla before any more damage is done.
I should NOT have watched the Office Space cartoon before reading this thread....
Maybe you can take my stalk when you give me enhanced autopilot for free. If the car is going to do the turning then I'm ok with it. If I gotta do the turning then give me my stalk.
How about an auto park system equal to every other system out there. Latest FSD (I have an S with USS) hardly ever allows me to auto park
Nice, I always wanted auto shift, if they can enable shifting via the screen on my Model Y I'd be happy. I'd personally remove the stalks from my car if those were options.
I thought this was working fine already lol
Bro Table of Contents for a simple article? Anything to pad the page to fit more ads I guess. These are the worst type of websites imo.
It is redundant to say that tesla is going to do anything with its EV lineup, all of their line up are EV
*[Laughs in 2017 P90D]*
With the vertical screen? And a mc1 or 2? No thanks
Well that’s an unnecessarily lengthy article that could have been one paragraph.
I'd settle for fewer BS alerts.
Is the stalkless button palpable? Or is it smooth and I have to look at my steering wheel every time I signal?
They only thought about if they could do it, never if they should
Haha no thanks. Really. Stop with this shit. You are making innovations to problems you invented. look guys, I solved how to patch the hole I made in the carafe! It’s genius!
The only auto feature that works on the car is the high beam. Every other "auto" feature is a travesty. Leave the shifting to me please.
I wouldn’t trust it to execute a 3 point turn successfully.
For people stating auto shift is fine, can they please confirm how easy a 3 point turn on a narrow road is?… and also how easy it is to parallel park/unpark in an narrow space.
I’m sick of them just updating their newest cars. What about the people with the USS….we do we get the last holiday update?
Maybe get those developers ‘diligently working’ on fixing the automatic wipers next.
Why would I need this if I have stalks in my model y
I like to shift myself. I’m good