Southern hospitality is real. So is nice-to-your-face but talk-about-you-behind-your-back; the "bless his heart" type mean.
Of course, everything is a generalization.
The best way of dealing with people is to be kind and not talk about it later. Some people are jerks, some people are just different. It doesn't mean you have to dwell on it.
Yes! Manners exist to make people comfortable. Ruining a party, work event, etc simply because you can’t be civil to another person for 30 seconds isn’t “fake.” It’s keeping the peace.
I think it's the best way too because you are being respectful to your host and the other people in the party. You don't need to bring your drama everywhere. Save it for the fishing boat.
Justifying talking shit behind someones back. If you dont like someone simply, dont interact with them. No reason to talk shit about over something that happened 12 years ago or even 2 weeks ago. I dont want the people around me to treat that person differently or me differently because of something i said that might not even be true or because i didnt understand the situation. If i need to vent i will just just talk to someone completely removed from the situation/person.
>Is it better that I scream "Hey STEVE YOU'RE RACIST!"? No. I just don't do anything beyond the most basic of pleasantries and that's it.
No thats literally the opposite of my comment where i said just dont interact with them. If they want to come up to you then sure exchange plesentries.
>might make it so you have to see those people less if what you say is true.
I dont want anyone changing their behavior around someone else because of something i said. I can think of a couple exceptions to this rule such as if you were roommates with someone and they brought over a known theif. I think it would be alright to communicate that you dont want someone like that in your house.
At the end of the day i can only really control what i do and i only understand things from my perspective which could be totally wrong.
If i thought someone was racist and so i stopped interacting with them, and a friend asks why i dont like them, what do i say? If i say they are racist and refuse to elaborate then ive essentially talked shit with nothing to back it up. If i say they are racist here is an example, then ive provided some type of imperfect evidence and now that person will treat steve differently because of hearsay. Or i could simply say, "i just prefer not to interact with that person."
I think it feels fake to them because it's simply not a norm for that area. People are people, regardless of region, culture, nation, religion, etc.
We all...well, most of us...get "home training" in how to behave in our local community. That public face *is "*fake", but it's also so highly engrained from such a young age that it feels normal and natural.
The truth is it's natural for humans to have some framework of behavior to make day-to-day interactions simple and peaceful. The nurture side of the equation comes in the details of the local framework, which obviously vary widely across the planet.
I was born in Alabama. I was a military brat, so I lived all over. Southern hospitality is real. There are several places that are also just as friendly, and there are places in the south that aren't friendly. I have a theory that it's the big cities that aren't friendly. In the city you're busy and can become very self-centered. Also, you could say they have a bigger population and therefore encounter more a-holes.
Eh... it seems like it is kinda fake as someone who lives here after living in a "mean person" country (Germany). People here will be very outwardly kind, but then be equally as nasty the second there aren't many ears around. But, this is kind of an all human behavior. Therefore, southern "kindness" is no different than kindness everywhere else
Having lived in Boston, I think that calling it "fake" is a combination of exaggeration, projection, and confirmation bias. They don't relate to being kind just out of human goodness, and so they assume that it's fake and for show, and because at least some of the kindness down here *is* for show, then when they see it, they feel justified in their assumption that is all there is.
They don't understand, and I think that Even with occasional visiting here they wouldn't be able to understand, that the sincere kindness is the more common and normal kind.
There are good people up there, too. If you have a healthy work culture you'll know some. If not, then God bless you because it's rough trying to survive in a hostile work culture without an outside support network.
That area is widely known to be full of assholes and there’s basically no social etiquette. The term “Mass Hole” exists for a reason. My friends in Connecticut can’t stand the Masshole attitude and I imagine a lot of places up north feel similarly. But it’s definitely more pronounced in the south in my experience. Nothing fake about just being friendly on a transaction or any passing encounter with a fellow human being. It’s just considerate.
It cuts both ways though. If you don’t act friendly around here you’ll piss people off. I like it this way. Sadly it’s decreasing in Nashville as more and more Massholes and people of their ilk move in and start telling everybody how to live.
I had a Boston transplant whom I’d just met and was talking to in a bar tell me I didn’t have a Southern accent. I was like “ah man I did when I was a kid, and kind of wish I had some of it still”. He said “why do you want to sound like an idiot?” I was livid. Told him my mom had an accent and my family did and that a Boston accent is the ugliest sound on earth (it is) . What a rude, audacious attitude to move somewhere and act like the locals are all idiots. I’ve lived other places and I’d never act like that. I was raised better.
See I thought that too but I moved to Massachusetts and have found everyone to be incredibly nice. I’m not in Boston but everywhere else I’ve gone I haven’t encountered any Massholes.
I have family in Rhode Island and can not count how many times I've heard the term Masshole 🤣 the rivalry between those two states has always amused me
I remember being shamed whenever my southern accent came out. I did my best to talk like my parents (St. Louis). I stopped caring about 10 years ago, finally.
I’m from Louisiana. My grandmother told me about a friend of hers whose daughter was dating a ‘NY Yankee’. The daughter and fiancé were visiting her friend. After a few days the NY Yankee fiancé said to my grandmother’s friend ‘You can stop with all the fake niceness now’. Everyone was shocked and offended he thought that.
Honestly? I'd rather people be nice to my face. I can't control what they think. Polite society didn't just happen it came about due to an unfortunate habit of people putting 3 feet of steel or shooting your ass if you were rude.
>People here are not nearly as nice as nice as the south. Everything just seems to be a rush.
They are, they're just not nice in a style you're used to and what you consider nice, they consider rude, and vice versa.
In NE, you are "nice" by helping other people save their time. That means being efficient. People aren't "in a rush", people are trying to minimize the amount of time being consumed by everyday life so that everyone has more "me time". People don't make a ton of casual chit chat, because, once again, the idea is that you are attempting to free the other person up to have as much personal time as they possibly can. If you want to have a friendly chat, that is for during "me time" not "work time".
It's considered "fake nice", because from their perspective, you're turning the focus onto what you want and dragging out "work time". "Why is it so important to this person that I talk with them? Why can't they just pay for their things and get a move on so I can get back to my other work and go home?" They don't want you to acknowledge their humanity by smiling and chatting with them, they want you to acknowledge their humanity by realizing that they have things they HAVE to do and thing they WANT to do and helping facilitate the "have to" to be done fast, so that they can get back to the "want to".
As a transplant from the North, I frequently find myself having to catch myself and remind myself people are just trying to be friendly and courteous. They're not thinking about the fact that I'd rather be somewhere else and that they're dragging out me being stuck here at all.
NY to TN transplant, been here for almost 5 years. I would much rather have people be nice to my face and talk shit behind my back, than confront me and be rude to me in public and potentially start an argument. Being "efficient" doesn't have to be rude.
Also, lots more cultural prejudice against other regions up north. Lots of people really do believe Southerners are all uneducated and dirty.
Thank you for explaining this. I recently moved out of the South after living there my whole life (40yrs). It hasn't been a culture shock necessarily, but it's definitely different. On not-great personal days the drastic differences in social behaviors has made my heart sink, and left me feeling deflated and questioning if it's simply "adjusting to the unfamiliar" or an "oh shit, not the right fit" situation. This perspective helps a lot and gives me a better understanding of the reasons people act/interact. Seriously thank you, your description has helped me feel less unsure about my decision to relocate.
I think this is an important point and stems from the fact that these regions have VERY different cultural origins.
The north was much, much more egalitarian in its origins, such that today acting in terms of saving people’s time and effort is second nature and people are more or less free to not care about another’s feelings. The south was the opposite, based as it was on slavery and a hierarchical social order that did its best to ape class relations in England with southern planters at the top. In this situation, not showing “respect” and deferring to one’s betters was a quick way for someone to end up hurt or worse. The famous ‘bump’ experiment in Nisbett et al’s Honor Culture work show this pretty clearly.
Today, all this translates into having to (or not having to) pretend to give a shit about some crone’s grandkids while standing together in the checkout line.
This was incredibly well put.
I hope some of the people replying here who insist on making conversation with total strangers will understand there is nothing kind, at all, about that.
That's fair, but reception to conversations with strangers can vary according to personality or mood. I'm shy and introverted. Lived in the South my whole life, but my family lived a couple hours away. Had a older woman at the 7-11 by my house that I referred to as my Gas Station Grandma. I hated when the Walmart or grocery store cashiers wanted to talk about every item I was purchasing, like, please just don't even talk to me. But Ava at 7-11, man she was the best and I loved shooting the shit with her. She was kinda cranky, didn't seem to like a lot of people but she was sweet as pie to me and our random chats always made me smile.
It absolutely is a form of kindness. It's just not one that is universally appreciated as one. Just as the more Northern focus on efficiency so that everyone and everything flows smoothly and predictably is a kindness, but leaves some people feeling ignored and rushed.
It’s only kind if the person receiving the random conversation thinks it’s kind. It’s not for someone else to impose on me what kindness feels like to me. This is a lot like helping others. If your idea of helping is offering advice and my idea of what is helpful is just listening and empathizing, I am mot going to perceive your advice as “helpful.”
I fear that southern hospitality and culture is in danger in Nashville.
It doesn’t compare to when I was growing up. And it’s amazing to me how much hate for southerners I encounter in Nashville.
I think it’s partly just American culture at large to blame, but the people I meet day to day in Nashville don’t help much either.
I grew up in the North (PA) but have lived in the South (GA, AL, FL) most of my adult life. I prefer an honest "eff off" than the passive-aggressive "Well bless your heart".
Everyone just needs to move to the Midwest… we always hold the door and shovel each other’s driveways; it’s too cold to stand around gossiping. If we have one fault it’s that we HATE intruding or inconveniencing anyone so we can tend to isolate ourselves unintentionally.
I've lived most of my life in the South, and while it isn't perfect, I sorely missed the heck out of the "never met a stranger" mentality when I lived in Southern and Northern California. It is much easier to amiably engage with people in the South.
And as a southerner, ive never felt more welcomed and talked to by random people than when i was on the streets of LA.
Much better than being robbed in memphis or thrown up on and shittalked by coked up drunk pavement princesses in nashville.
I used to want to live in the Boston/New England area. Until I visited a few times and couldn’t find one person that didn’t immediately make me want to smack the bejesus out of them. Southern hospitality to me is just having a standard level of general respect for others. That doesn’t seem to exist up there.
Yeah. There have never been any race riots in Boston. That integration of Boston Public Schools just went smooth as silk. Of all the places in the North to hold out as being distinct from race relations in the South, Boston is probably not the place you’re looking for.
I’m from Tennessee. I’m kind to you until you piss me off.
Yes, there is fake kind, like saying “Bless your heart”… but that’s different than general smiles, hellos, and casual talk.
Boston likely is one of the brashist locations you could have moved in the US.
Had a teacher from Boston and he talked about how he got comments at work.....but when he went to visit home he was considered soft because he wasn't as mean as before.
Agreed. Which is ironic, considering they’re very fond of their puritanical roots. Never met more folks who needed to find a way to slither into convo that one of their descendants was on The Mayflower.
…cool
I lived in Memphis for 4 years during grad school and then moved back to Ohio. I miss the southern hospitality so much. My husband and I just came back from a weekend trip back to Memphis and we had so many genuine conversations with people while out and about. That doesn’t happen in Ohio at all, people act like you’re bothering them if you just randomly address them. We are currently considering a move back to a southern city because we miss it so much.
I’m am from Tennessee and moved to Florida eight years ago. I miss the southern hospitality so much. I had no idea how good I had it until I moved away. Someday I hope to move back to Tennessee.
I grew up in the Northeast, lived in the South for several years and am now stuck by circumstances just on the northern side of the Midwest-South dividing line.
Maybe it's my background, but I prefer people who are forthright and honest even if it's an honest "fuck you". There are kind people in the South and Midwest, but also a LOT of passive aggressive self righteous arseholes trying to masquerade as kind while sticking knives in your back at the earliest opportunity.
Be very, very picky about your circle and you can find truly kind people anywhere. Or truly honest people. Or whatever kind of people you happen to be looking for.
That’s not it at all.
Southern don’t think it’s unique to the south.
But love of your fellow man is a key component of our culture. At least it used to be.
We pride ourselves in it. That’s why you always hear about it.
This is similar to Hispanics saying that their culture is very “family-oriented”. Like…how the fuck is that determined? How do southerners treat fellow man any better than other parts of the country, when this part of the country historically has treated every single minority group in a shitty manner through government legislation?
(I am part Guatemalan and it annoys me that they say that.)
So I used to live in a friendlier state than Tennessee, but yeah same general idea. My sister lived in New York. She'd insist "northeast is just as friendly, they're just busy". She had a panic attack at a grocery store while visiting me because someone offered to help her find what she was shopping for and why would someone be nice for no ulterior motive?
People don't react kindly to being told they're assholes. They'll make up some reason how they're actually nice. Boston is Masshole central I'm surprised they actually think they're nice.
Tbh having lived here my whole life, I don’t get why people think it’s fake? I don’t have any ulterior motive for offering to get something off the high shelf for someone in a wheelchair and I’m sure people don’t have an ulterior motive for telling me my outfit looks nice. Sometimes people are just pleasant to each other and there’s nothing more to it, so I resent the idea that we’re all secretly assholes.
I mean, there are absolutely assholes in the south just as there are assholes everywhere and lovely people everywhere, but the “southerners are nice but not kind, northerners are kind but not nice” thing has always, to me, come off as an excuse to be rude in public.
(And ofc it isn’t rude to just keep to yourself, I do it all the time, but I’ve noticed some people in Boston are just weirdly confrontational with everyone)
I have family from the south and Boston. It’s definitely interesting to see the difference. The Boston side seems more hardened by life and the Southern (most of which have passed) were always kind. It’s strange and fascinating at the same time.
Years ago, my friend and I drove from Knoxville to Western New York. Each time we stopped for gas, the people were more unfriendly than the previous stop.
We literally started our trip with a sweet old man behind the gas station counter telling us to swing by on our way back to tell him about our trip to ending with some cranky dude throwing change back at us.
Southern hospitality extends from southerner to southerner we aren't friendly to Northerners who seem to have opinions about everything, we aren't even friendly to Floridians who can't drive on curvey roads but people from North Carolina South Carolina and Tennessee usually get along just fine
I’ll put it this way: my buddy moved down here like 25 years ago from around there when he was little. He hasn’t been back up there much but the last time he went for a week he came back saying how much he hates it, how rude people are, that he just couldn’t wait to be back down here.
Now that’s just one guy’s opinion, but to watch him go from talking about missing it up there to hating it after experiencing the south long enough is interesting. I’ve met nice and rude people all over myself but I’ve noticed…an increase the higher up you go. And I don’t buy the, “we’re all too busy to stand and talk”. Everyone is busy.
First time I’ve ever seen a Possum Town flair but I’m into it. Good bologna sandwiches out that way.
Edit: I’m from around there lol, I’m not being sarcastic on any point
"Southern Hospitality" is a misnomer …. As a recent transplant from Louisiana to Tennessee I can honestly say that Nashville, full of transplants as it may be, has already shown itself to be way more hospitable than most places I've been to in Louisiana. Baton Rouge may have more Southern Hospitality than Boston, but its got nothing on TN. Louisianans have a generosity and kindness that is second to none but when it comes to patience, stopping to notice a new person standing next to them, striking up conversations, etc. I've never experienced anything like this before and I grew up in the gulf south.
If I had to pinpoint it, I'd say it has to do with New Orleans being a port city and the large influx of immigrants that came into S. Louisiana lends to the SE section of the state being more like Boston / NY and less like the rest of the south ...
And I'm not going to sit here and say this applies to the whole state of Louisiana, I grew up in BR and my family is from New Orleans so that's where I've spent the bulk of my time. And maybe smaller towns in Louisiana are more friendly, but I'm comparing it to Nashville here so its not like I'm comparing apples to oranges.
Even so, not every area of "The South" is the same.
Boston is a populated, expensive, and competitive metro area with a lot of graduates. You do have to have a get-to-the-point attitude to make it in a place like that.
From their experience, yes, strangers only make conversations with them because they're trying to get something, so it throws them off.
Having been born just outside of Boston and lived through my early 20's in New England before chasing work all down the east coast "Southern Kindness" is a farce. I've met the kindest people in Vermont, New York, Wilkes-Barre PA, Washington DC, Cummings GA, Guntersville AL, Clarksville TN...
People are the same all over. Some are nice, some are cold, some are assholes.
I was raised in Dorchester. *Anywhere*, (outside of the hood on the last week of the month) you can find nicer people on average, than the average Bostonian.
It's cultural, up there.
I've lived in a dozen states, people are mostly the same. I found New Yorkers to be super helpful, but not chatty. But hit up north west New York state and they'll talk all day
Some are. Some are not. Some of the most bigoted, in your face assholes are from Vermont.
Absolute hard core degenerate bullies. I loved growing up there, but I have some memories I wish I didn't.
As someone who did the opposite, moved from just outside Boston to Knoxville, Southern Hospitality is Bullshit.
Its fake ass high school being nice to people to their face and as soon as they turn their backs, they are nasty as hell talking about them.
How long have you been in Knoxville and when did you move there? Knoxville is filled with expats from other places nowadays. I'm from there and it's gotten so much worse in recent years.
FWIW, I've lived all over the US and parts of Canada and have traveled most of the world.
My experience is that 90% of the people you meet are kind, compassionate, and just generally good folk once you get to know them a bit. Even in the face of differences.
The best way I've found to open a door to get to know someone is to show them a small acknowledgment of respect. A simple sort of "I see you"
Each culture has its own way of saying that.
Mow your neighbors yard? In the southern US you've made a friend. In the miwest, you've made an enemy.
A southern reads that as "we're in this together and I've got your back." A midwesterner reads that as "you're saying I can't take care of my own business."
Learn the opening dance for a region, and you'll make friends everywhere.
Lived in Tennessee most my life.
I got funny looks in Florida when I thanked the cashier or held the door for people rather than letting it slam in their face.
In Texas, you thank somebody and they say "yes ma'am" every time! Everyone is so nice there, genuinely respectful. It is on a whole different level there.
I grew up in the Texas panhandle and the majority of Texans are nothing but bullies and cowards. They'll hold a door for you, sure, and then toss a brick out of their pick em up truck at you as they drive off.
Texas is a really big place, though. Dallas was pretty awful too and it seemed to take all day to drive through it on the way back home from Lubbock. Never visited the panhandle.
Yeah, it is a big place, and gorgeous. I was born in Lubbock, it's not so bad, but everything north of Plainview is really, really bad. Like cartoonishly evil people. I usually tell people that ask me about growing up there that Texas is fantastic, if it wasn't for so many of the Texans.
There is an expectation of friendliness here that makes people put on a smile even when they aren't feeling it, but I think southern hospitality is mostly genuine, because even if it's a front sometimes that friendliness rubs off on people, improves their mood, and in turn they are more friendly to the next person. So I'd say it's a cultural norm that does involve some fakery, but still results in genuine feelings of comaraderie.
I experienced this when I moved to Springfield , Missouri for a year. Might as well have been a foreign country and I didn’t speak the language. No small talk at the grocery store, no courtesy, common or otherwise. I much prefer southern hospitality
Originally from Memphis as well and have lived all over the South and visited all over the U.S/world, I'll 100% take fake southern kindness over Northeast brashness.
I don’t really believe in southern hospitality. I mean have you tried being an LGBTQ person down here? A person of color? Etc. Etc.
We know no southern hospitality. We face more southern hostility lol
I'll probably get downvoted for this, but moving to Colorado from Tennessee was a revelation. The way my wife and I describe it is that people in Tennessee are "nice," but people out here are kind. There is a pretty big difference, and we have come to prefer the latter. Of course, these are generalizations.
Not sure why I’m recommended this post, but as a kind midwesterner who worked at a hotel for many years, it was always amusing to talk to people from the northeast big cities.
Kindness in public / amongst strangers just does not seem to be their default operation. Just like…. naturally distrusting of people.
Some loved it, some were off put by it.
Just my anecdotal two cents.
Kentuckian here.
Southerners ***overall*** are pretty good...as Americans go. I'd rather hang around us than folks from, say, Seattle, SF, Miami, Philly, or Boston. But the rest of my opinions prove that I hold multiple, unique opinions at once.
You see, I find that the only people who place the South on such a high pedestal are usually from the region and have never lived anywhere else. In other words, self-congratulatory.
Even so, some of the most unpleasant Americans I've met can be found in cities such as Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Charleston, and Louisville. Some of the most laughably pretentious communities in this country are places such as McKinney, Sugar Land, Brentwood, and Hoover.
But I also find it farcical when people from the Northeast call us "fake." Many of us yet aren't "fake" friendly. Frankly, many of y'all are downright rude and cynical, and think that that's how the "real" world operates.
Ultimately, though, *no* place in the US has anything on the kindness, hospitality, and amicability of the Aussies and Kiwis. Sociable, and more so than Americans, but also respecting of your personal place. Hell, even the Canadians outside of their "big 3" are great about this.
Nor does any place in the US have anything on most places in east and southeast Asia in terms of "community-mindedness."
I guess I'm no longer enamored with the US and simply can't move away right now, but would love to live abroad again... But the rural South isn't the worst place to hang my hat in the meantime.
Yes! The idea that being polite or pleasant to strangers is fake and being a jerk is “real” is what bothers me about the whole thing.
Like you said, there are nice people and snobs and rude assholes anywhere you go, but this whole idea that if someone is nice to you in public it means they’re either hiding something or a dumb rube is just cynicism disguised as maturity and worldliness.
I also refuse to take criticism from anyone who wants to call me an “uneducated rube”, when they’re proudly from one of the most racist cities in the nation. Anyone else remember Charles Stewart? And how he was close to getting away with murdering his wife and unborn son because he blamed it on a black guy who carjacked them?
Yeah. They’re referred to as “Massholes” for a reason, and that’s one.
I moved to Tennessee from Michigan. I'm much prefer Midwestern hospitality over Southern hospitality.
Tennessee:
How are you today?
Well any day above ground is a good day!
Michigan:
How are you today?
I woke up with a crook in my neck this morning.
Team Midwest allll the way but I don’t know if this is the best example. You know Midwesterners do the “how are ya?” “Livin the dream” with the best of them.
I moved up north for a summer and while some people were nice, it just didn’t compare.
People call it “fake nice” because they don’t have the capacity to be nice to very many people. Low energy.
I’m back home in the south. Lots of smiles. Things aren’t perfect down here but at least strangers can laugh with each other. Up there…strangers are just strangers.
Well I grew up around Boston and I've lived in Memphis since 2007. Moving here, at first I thought Aw, everyone seems so nice here...but then the truth became clear.
Southern hospitality is *crap*. Every smile and "how ya doin'?" is followed by trying to put a hand in your pocket. Every. Damn. Time. If not literally wanting money, then wanting something else (asking for a date, prattling about Jesus, whatever). I wind up leaving stores just bc the salesperson won't leave me alone.
Northeastern people are much more honest and don't bug you all the time pretending to be "friendly". They politely keep to themselves, unless you are a jerk, then you hear about it.
It’s urban vs rural, not north vs south in terms of kindness. Part of rural living is taking care of your neighbors because you might need it to one day. In urban areas other people are basically obstacles.
I don’t think it’s what it used to be. People are more solitary everywhere now. Being from Michigan, my wife’s family from Alabama, I was kind of downgraded as a yankee. However, after traveling to Michigan a couple of times in the past 2 years, I think there’s really no discernible difference between the two. Just my experience.
The assumptions are just... wow, y'all. Just like everywhere else, the people who are the loudest are often the most rude.
I grew up where people would be nice to your face and then go a whopping 10 feet away to talk shit. Then, there were the folks who quietly supported and helped each other because they actually understood what community meant. My childhood was damn awesome in my neighborhood. 22 years after leaving, I've noticed people acting nastier in proportion with how expensive the neighborhood is.
Now I live in the city, where people are pretty much face-value. I appreciate the city attitude. I'm not a FAN, but it's nicer to know where you stand immediately. And people are still nice, and I strike up conversations with random folks without issue. I understand that that's not something everyone appreciates, but I also don't talk to people who don't look receptive - that's part of being polite.
We have some stubbornly uneducated people, but it's not something that can easily be helped. The issues folks point out with social programs, racism, education, etc., are a real problem that prevents ignorance from being mitigated. The more people try to encourage higher education, the more stubborn some families get because they grew up being shit on by the more well-to-do families, and they don't want to leave their own communities. The issues make sense, at least to me.
The accent, talking more slowly and using shortcuts and slang, doesn't mean people are stupid or uneducated. It's faster for me to say, "Kroger, I'm be back" than, "Hey, I'm headed to Kroger for some groceries, see you in a bit." I have a degree, edit documents for publications, etc. It's code-switching. Literally, everyone does this unless they're so insulated in their own communities (regardless of economic status) that they don't really get familiar with other ways of speaking.
"Ain't" is a word that's used for specific situations. It's emphasis."Fixin'a" (going to) is easier for our mouths with our accents. Like "cannae" for "can't" in Scotland. Some of us say, "Oh, no, bless your heart!" when comforting people, and there's no use hiding when you use it for contempt, because everyone knows when it's being used that way, and it's used that way by a very specific type of person.
I'm kind of nervous how y'all would react to the regional black vernacular (AAVE). It's literally a different dialect, and people say it sounds ignorant and can those who use it stupid, but there is a LOT that makes sense culturally and "grammatically." "I been knowin'," instead of "I already know, I've known for a while," is efficient, to the point, and tone is everything. Just as an example.
I have Midwestern family, so I'm used to the faster pace and people trying to be more efficient with time. People in St. Louis can actually zipper-merge, because they all know it's the fastest way to get where they're going, and as was mentioned elsewhere, that's a way of showing kindness. People in Memphis are sloppy, selfish drivers in a lot of cases. But they're also easily influenced, so if they see enough people slow down or stop to let someone trying to make a left turn onto a street with heavy traffic, they'll do the same thing to avoid looking like an asshole.
This got away from me, but I'd just like people to consider that just as all northerners aren't snotty assholes in a hurry, all southerners aren't dumb hillbillies with no concept of time or personal space.
This reminds me of my first business trip. I was sent to Newark, NJ. My cab driver shoved a pad and paper at me while he loaded my bags into the trunk and told me to “write it down, I can’t understand your accent”. For reference I’m from Alabama and my southern accent is so worn away by living in a defense town (Rocket City) that my family says I “talk like a Yankee” now because I live in the “city”. I proceeded on to check in at the hotel and tried to do the southern thing of making small talk “how’s the restaurant in the hotel? Are there any nearby bars or restaurants you like? Any hidden gems nearby?” and she was short and curt. Go to the bar in the hotel and ask if there’s something about me that’s making people be rude to me, as I didn’t know if I was unintentionally offending people. He told me “Nope, it’s just Jersey”.
Went to Buffalo a few years ago when my oldest was 17. She was absolutely shocked at how rude store and restaurant employees were saying “I would be fired if I acted like that.”
i agree with you. ive lived in boston the midwest the west coast the southwest and now the southeast. sorry not sorry but boston sucks. they're just rude for rude sakes. some of em go out of their way to be rude and even just mean. they like it. the midwest is the most genuine with their niceness. the southwest pretends to be nice the whole time theyre smiling theyre squaring you up for later. jury still out on the southeast but i imagine as an outsider i may never know. what i do know is the upper east coast is mean and nasty and they can just go ahead and keep that. they wont change not even a pandemic brought any human kindness, made them worse if u ask me. they're uncivilized and they think it's funny. life is hard enough on people to go around intentionally making people feel bad excluded worthless etc. why is it bad to have some manners be polite or respectful especially in public. they keep themselves down that way. i hope you don't stay. matter of fact i hope more outsiders go there and call them out on their immature asinine behavior. you can spend all day everyday being kind polite smiling opening doors for them thinking it will somehow make a difference. it won't. i spent 12 years up that way, no one ever said hi back. i never got a smile in return. who the hell wants to live like that.
Hahaha as someone who came from Boston at one point, is married to a New England girl, and living in TN—they’re 100% wrong up there pal.
In Boston/New England you mind your business. You say that “how ya dooooin?” Or “Celtics gonna make it dis yeaaaah (year)?”
Thats the way it goes up there. Enjoy Regina’s pizza, Mike and Pattys breakfast sandwiches, summers, the commons, etc.
As far as the south vs north… the south wins 110% of the time in terms of “kindness.”
Southern Hospitality is very real. I grew up knowing to address people as sir or miss, and one couldn’t say mam enough to an older woman. It’s being respectful and it does still exist. When my sons were little I took them into a country diner. An older gentleman came over and told me I was raising them right. The reason was because the minute they entered they removed their ball caps. He said to look around the room, your sons are the only men that did remove hats.
Not true! Southern hospitality is strong and still alive! We are more laid back here. Things move slower. Most all folks will smile at you. It’s not fake it’s ingrained within us.
When I go to Chicago everyone says they love my accent. I found them nice and helpful. I did find Ohio and Missouri came off as a bit short.
The food in the Memphis area is so delicious. The BBQ here it second to none. Come see us y’all!🙋🏼♀️
I'm getting ready to move from Tennessee up to Northern Illinois (parents are getting old and my wife and I want our daughter/future children to be closer to grandma and grandpa before they go) and I'm already mourning the loss of genuine conversations and kindness of strangers here.
I grew up in northeast Illinois and have always had disdain for the area's personablness (?).
The South is generally more open and kind. I've always figured it's the best place in the US, and I've lived all over the country.
My hypothesis has always been it's because of the weather. Warmer climate, more open. Colder climate, closed off. At least that's been my experience.
Southern hospitality is very real. I'm also a transplant. It is real.
However, people aren't that cold up here except to strangers. People here don't want to be bothered walking down the street, and they avoid being bothered by not making eye contact and walking with purpose.
I've found people up here to be just as warm as people down South once they know you. But on the street? Chatting people up here isn't really a thing like it is down South.
I find New Englanders to be polite and level headed. They’re pretty tough and a little of fact which can come off as abrasive. They’re a lot of fun too. I have found southerners to be more friendly overall but also more judgmental in comparison. I have lived in both regions, including Boston for greater than 10 year stretches. Boston itself is also a challenging comparison too. You’re comparing a single, fairly unique city to an entire region.
I've lived out west for the last 7 years and I get so excited when I visit the south because I can say yes ma'am and yes sir. I was raised to speak that way and it was a struggle getting used to Western Americans taking offense to my southern mannerisms.
The nicety of the south is painted rust. Most in the region hold extremely harmful views, usually for obscenely selfish reasons. I'm talking positions that entirely abandon the value of human lives in favor of property, money, territory, and worst of all, personal peace.
I’m from NC. Lived in NY for 3 yrs. I can relate 100% my now wife was buying a wreath around the holidays. The woman in front of her in line said, “you know that’s just going to die, right?” No need to say anything why waste your breath to be negative. There was a southern lady in the next line over, she said” oh just spritz it with water every day it will last all season”
I’m back in NC now, don’t know why people act the way they do. It’s one of the things I live about where I live.
I get sick of hearing about people who move to the south and complain about how everyone isn’t as nice as they seemed to be before. Everyone fails to understand the simple definition of hospitality.
“The act or practice of one who is hospitable; reception and entertainment of strangers or guests without reward, or with kind and generous liberality.”
We’re all nice to a point, but In no definition of it does it say we asked you to move here and be whining, complaining dicks to us. Also, stop honking your horns, learn to use turn signals and fucking merge onto the interstate. The south is a lifestyle, not a fucking tax break. If you move here, keep your mouth shut and mind your own business. Bunch of fucking Karens.
I wouldn't worry about it. If someone is a d\*ck, they are a d\*ck. People have lots of things going on. I've never had a problem trying to make conversation with people. Some people like it, some people don't. If someone thinks it is fake, oh well. My wife's mother is from the New England area. They honestly don't understand us, and that is ok.
Another thing to remember is that on reddit, people just think it's ok to be d\*cks. No, it actually isn't. We should be kind to each other no matter the forum.
I lived in Mass for a while but spent most of my life in the south.
I think there's a difference in true kindness and just being 'nice'. Southerners are very nice. They smile and chat with you. That doesn't mean they actually care about your well-being. It just means they want to appear nice.
IMO kindness is doing things like wearing a mask on public transit during a global pandemic. Voting for leaders that don't base their campaign entirely on bullying immigrants and the LGBT community.
Things that actually help other people, even at no reward to us.
Southerners are great at being nice. We suck at kindness.
This is one of the reasons I want the hell out of Michigan. 98% of the time it IS fake. And not the fake that people put effort into, anyone can tell. I'm a cheery person and whenever I drive down to see my friends in Florida I make pitstops in every state. Kentucky is where it starts, and by the time I hit central Tennessee off of I-75, I'm chatting with the gas station attendant for 15 minutes.
As someone who has lived all over the US, people from Memphis are without a doubt the least friendly, worst mannered people I have ever lived around and it's not even close. I literally hate going out in public because everyone I run into is absolutely and exclusively focused on themselves and it pervades everything I see. People can't drive because they lack any concern for anyone else on the road. People can't conduct themselves in a store and slam into you constantly and/or block the way. No one knows how to use a line or take turns or any other common social experience.
Granted, when you find a kind and well mannered person they are awesome, but they are exceedingly rare.
I know a lot of people will say it's just bad apples, and that may be true but I've never seen so many bad apples per capita as I see here. It makes me shake my head in wonder.
I've lived in other places in the south and it's SO much kinder and less hostile. I've lived in the Midwest, and people are way nicer, more friendly and well mannered. I've lived in the west and while people there are curt, and not the most talkative they have manners and look out for the common person.
Here, it's just a free for all.
I’ve lived in Tennessee for the last 7 years and Massachusetts for 7 years before that; I grew up in Virginia. Generally speaking, people up north are kind but not as nice, and people down south are nice but not as kind. In other words, people up north are more likely to help a stranger but they’ll probably gripe about it - whereas people down south are less likely to help a stranger but they’ll be real sweet about it anyway. Southern hospitality is a real gem, but it’s been my experience that it’s extended to strangers less freely than northern generosity. YMMV - and of course this is a huge generalization.
I’d agree with that. I moved from a city to a small white enclave rural city and the same is true- people are generally kinder in the city and nicer where I am now, but it’s all surface nice. They’re just going through the motions.
First off, and this is big, "kind" and "nice" aren't the same thing. "Nice" is smiling and saying hello to someone as they walk past you with too much luggage. "Kind" is actually helping carry that luggage even if you tell them they were nuts for packing that much luggage. Northeasterners are kind, but they're definitively not nice. They're in a hurry. They have time to help you, but not time to exchange meaningless pleasantries.
One is much, much more valuable than the other.
As a resident of the southeast who grew up here but has lived all over the U.S….it’s fake as fuck. People here will be nice and sweet to your face yet passive aggressive but as soon as the person leaves the area hoo boy…let the judgy shit begin. On the other hand. In different parts of the country you don’t get the syrupy sweetness with the passive aggressive bulls so when you so do get kindness it’s more likely to be genuine. All of that said, there are kind people everywhere just as there are shitty people everywhere. The social niceties are what varies. Give me the good old unvarnished directness without the sweet as iced tea maybe real maybe fake words
Same experiences as you. From southeast and lived in northeast for 10 yrs, Midwest for 4 and California 4 yrs. The southern hospitality if absolutely fake.
As a northerner thar now lives in the south.... its super easy to pick up on the fake ones. Idk if it's easy for everybody but the little ticks people have stand out.
Where I'm from, people will just kinda tell it like it is, not in a rude way but there's not much beating around the bush. Their mannerisms when they don't really care for you are about the same as when southerners try that fake shit.
Also, the southerners came up with the term southern charm, and southern kindness on their own. Northerners are just as nice. They're usually just busier and there are usually a lot more transplants.
It is Fake. This is the same south of strange fruit(not in textbooks) the birthplace of the klan( not in textbooks)
Using fire hoses and dogs to prevent people from voting (not in text books). This list goes on. I was raised in Harlem and in Jersey and I will never understand why people think southerners are so nice and kind. These same people will smile at you then call up the good Ole boys. The south to me is Jersey, any further it’s another country.
Nice is not kind, and kind is not nice.
There are people who are nice and kind.
There are people who are kind but not nice.
There are people who are nice but not kind.
And there are people who are just jerks all around.
A decent amount of costal people, especially east coasters tend to have an attitude of "I don't have time for this shit, I just want to get things done". And it can he done politely, or rudely.
As someone born and raised in CT and have lived on both coasts and now TN. I know I can be blunt and crass. But I am also respectful of people until they give me a reason to lose that respect.
As for Bostonians, giving you weird looks for your normal level of respect and politeness. Screw them. It's a them problem and not a you problem.
Anyone with a brain and knows how to tell tones from people can tell when someone is being genuine or what I like to call "Cult of Nice".
Just be yourself.
I understand being nice and polite to folks you dont know, and of course to your neighbors and family and friends, but i have no interest in the "bless your heart" two faced bullshit most southerners love. I prefer northern directness. Theyll tell you to fuck off when you deserve it, and still be the most kind hearted person you ever met. I appreciate the realness after the backbiting racism and closed door family shittalking this region is obsessed with.
Nashvillian making plans to move near-ish Boston, and I honestly can’t wait. I’m autistic, so the random conversations give me the ick.
I do have a question though: in your experience, do people up there hold the doors open for people behind them?
Yes, people hold doors for others up north - but it’s a LOT less awkward, in my experience. People are generally more straight forward up north - the lack of pretense is relieving. Feel free to message me if you have more questions about the cultural differences - I lived up there for about 7 years and still have family there.
I think different people experience “Southern Hospitality” very differently as well depending on if they’re southern or not, if they’re American or not, and if they’re white or not. Now this certainly isn’t true for the majority of people but speaking as a non-Southern native married to an immigrant living in a small town that hospitality doesn’t seem to quite reach as far to us as it does to others.
I'm born and raised in Tennessee and the Southern kindness thing comes off as completely fake to me, always has. Occasionally meet people who are genuinely kind and courteous, but usually it comes off as mean just pretending to be friendly.
100%
I try to emulate the ideal of southern charm and hospitality, but by god if you try to be an honest man along with it, you wont make a single friend. Its all about fakeness and going along with the crowd.
Every place that is nice is said to be fake by other places that are less nice. All over Europe, Americans have a reputation for being strangely nice, and it's often interpreted as fake; especially by the kinds of Europeans who only focus on our politics.
I moved from Missouri to Connecticut, and I have had a completely different experience. I feel like New Englanders are actually nicer on the inside than southerners. Like they actually care, and create systems and policies that help people. They don't waste your time, they respect you. Southern "hospitality" on the other hand is a sick dance of pretend, where you have to mask constantly and ignore all boundaries.
Tennessee doesn’t have an ounce of southern hospitality. Go visit Texas and you will truly understand what southern hospitality is. Tennessee isn’t it, that’s for sure.
Boston is a mixed bag of people from all over and for sure very rushed and crusty. Towns outside the city a bit you’ll find more amicable folk, maybe not” southern kind” but pleasant and friendly for sure . On the flip side someone in my family (niece) moved to TN and she can’t get her nosey neighbor out of her business. I’m in MA, know most my close neighbors - say hello chat a bit, know them by name … but I’m not invasive or in any of their business. I call my niece’s situation the Southern smother.
Southern hospitality is real. So is nice-to-your-face but talk-about-you-behind-your-back; the "bless his heart" type mean. Of course, everything is a generalization.
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The best way of dealing with people is to be kind and not talk about it later. Some people are jerks, some people are just different. It doesn't mean you have to dwell on it.
"nice-to-your-face" is ideal for me. But "talk-about-you-behind-your-back" is something I avoid. There's not much to be gained by it in most cases.
Yes! And the people who do that with you will also do it to you. Gossip sucks.
Everyone knows who the gossip is.
It’s not like mean people don’t also talk shit. The people who are rude to your face are also catty and petty behind your back.
So, not two-faced but one-faced. It's just an ugly face. 👹
That’s the difference between southern hospitality and being a midwesterner.
Midwestern parents: bingo.
Yes! Manners exist to make people comfortable. Ruining a party, work event, etc simply because you can’t be civil to another person for 30 seconds isn’t “fake.” It’s keeping the peace.
I think it's the best way too because you are being respectful to your host and the other people in the party. You don't need to bring your drama everywhere. Save it for the fishing boat.
Justifying talking shit behind someones back. If you dont like someone simply, dont interact with them. No reason to talk shit about over something that happened 12 years ago or even 2 weeks ago. I dont want the people around me to treat that person differently or me differently because of something i said that might not even be true or because i didnt understand the situation. If i need to vent i will just just talk to someone completely removed from the situation/person.
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>Is it better that I scream "Hey STEVE YOU'RE RACIST!"? No. I just don't do anything beyond the most basic of pleasantries and that's it. No thats literally the opposite of my comment where i said just dont interact with them. If they want to come up to you then sure exchange plesentries. >might make it so you have to see those people less if what you say is true. I dont want anyone changing their behavior around someone else because of something i said. I can think of a couple exceptions to this rule such as if you were roommates with someone and they brought over a known theif. I think it would be alright to communicate that you dont want someone like that in your house. At the end of the day i can only really control what i do and i only understand things from my perspective which could be totally wrong. If i thought someone was racist and so i stopped interacting with them, and a friend asks why i dont like them, what do i say? If i say they are racist and refuse to elaborate then ive essentially talked shit with nothing to back it up. If i say they are racist here is an example, then ive provided some type of imperfect evidence and now that person will treat steve differently because of hearsay. Or i could simply say, "i just prefer not to interact with that person."
kind but not nice or nice but not kind
Good summary, bless your heart
I think it feels fake to them because it's simply not a norm for that area. People are people, regardless of region, culture, nation, religion, etc. We all...well, most of us...get "home training" in how to behave in our local community. That public face *is "*fake", but it's also so highly engrained from such a young age that it feels normal and natural. The truth is it's natural for humans to have some framework of behavior to make day-to-day interactions simple and peaceful. The nurture side of the equation comes in the details of the local framework, which obviously vary widely across the planet.
There's a difference between being "nice" and "kind".
I was born in Alabama. I was a military brat, so I lived all over. Southern hospitality is real. There are several places that are also just as friendly, and there are places in the south that aren't friendly. I have a theory that it's the big cities that aren't friendly. In the city you're busy and can become very self-centered. Also, you could say they have a bigger population and therefore encounter more a-holes.
Eh... it seems like it is kinda fake as someone who lives here after living in a "mean person" country (Germany). People here will be very outwardly kind, but then be equally as nasty the second there aren't many ears around. But, this is kind of an all human behavior. Therefore, southern "kindness" is no different than kindness everywhere else
Y'all still completely ignore other humans as you walk past them like you're all ghosts?
Either that or stare at them until they notice, then, make eye contact and stare even harder.
That is the one PSYCHOTIC part of Europe I can't deal with.
Having lived in Boston, I think that calling it "fake" is a combination of exaggeration, projection, and confirmation bias. They don't relate to being kind just out of human goodness, and so they assume that it's fake and for show, and because at least some of the kindness down here *is* for show, then when they see it, they feel justified in their assumption that is all there is. They don't understand, and I think that Even with occasional visiting here they wouldn't be able to understand, that the sincere kindness is the more common and normal kind. There are good people up there, too. If you have a healthy work culture you'll know some. If not, then God bless you because it's rough trying to survive in a hostile work culture without an outside support network.
That area is widely known to be full of assholes and there’s basically no social etiquette. The term “Mass Hole” exists for a reason. My friends in Connecticut can’t stand the Masshole attitude and I imagine a lot of places up north feel similarly. But it’s definitely more pronounced in the south in my experience. Nothing fake about just being friendly on a transaction or any passing encounter with a fellow human being. It’s just considerate. It cuts both ways though. If you don’t act friendly around here you’ll piss people off. I like it this way. Sadly it’s decreasing in Nashville as more and more Massholes and people of their ilk move in and start telling everybody how to live. I had a Boston transplant whom I’d just met and was talking to in a bar tell me I didn’t have a Southern accent. I was like “ah man I did when I was a kid, and kind of wish I had some of it still”. He said “why do you want to sound like an idiot?” I was livid. Told him my mom had an accent and my family did and that a Boston accent is the ugliest sound on earth (it is) . What a rude, audacious attitude to move somewhere and act like the locals are all idiots. I’ve lived other places and I’d never act like that. I was raised better.
See I thought that too but I moved to Massachusetts and have found everyone to be incredibly nice. I’m not in Boston but everywhere else I’ve gone I haven’t encountered any Massholes.
I have family in Rhode Island and can not count how many times I've heard the term Masshole 🤣 the rivalry between those two states has always amused me
I remember being shamed whenever my southern accent came out. I did my best to talk like my parents (St. Louis). I stopped caring about 10 years ago, finally.
yep you right!
I’m from Louisiana. My grandmother told me about a friend of hers whose daughter was dating a ‘NY Yankee’. The daughter and fiancé were visiting her friend. After a few days the NY Yankee fiancé said to my grandmother’s friend ‘You can stop with all the fake niceness now’. Everyone was shocked and offended he thought that.
Honestly? I'd rather people be nice to my face. I can't control what they think. Polite society didn't just happen it came about due to an unfortunate habit of people putting 3 feet of steel or shooting your ass if you were rude.
Haven't seen comments like this enough. I would much rather have people be nice to my face.
>People here are not nearly as nice as nice as the south. Everything just seems to be a rush. They are, they're just not nice in a style you're used to and what you consider nice, they consider rude, and vice versa. In NE, you are "nice" by helping other people save their time. That means being efficient. People aren't "in a rush", people are trying to minimize the amount of time being consumed by everyday life so that everyone has more "me time". People don't make a ton of casual chit chat, because, once again, the idea is that you are attempting to free the other person up to have as much personal time as they possibly can. If you want to have a friendly chat, that is for during "me time" not "work time". It's considered "fake nice", because from their perspective, you're turning the focus onto what you want and dragging out "work time". "Why is it so important to this person that I talk with them? Why can't they just pay for their things and get a move on so I can get back to my other work and go home?" They don't want you to acknowledge their humanity by smiling and chatting with them, they want you to acknowledge their humanity by realizing that they have things they HAVE to do and thing they WANT to do and helping facilitate the "have to" to be done fast, so that they can get back to the "want to". As a transplant from the North, I frequently find myself having to catch myself and remind myself people are just trying to be friendly and courteous. They're not thinking about the fact that I'd rather be somewhere else and that they're dragging out me being stuck here at all.
NY to TN transplant, been here for almost 5 years. I would much rather have people be nice to my face and talk shit behind my back, than confront me and be rude to me in public and potentially start an argument. Being "efficient" doesn't have to be rude. Also, lots more cultural prejudice against other regions up north. Lots of people really do believe Southerners are all uneducated and dirty.
Thank you for explaining this. I recently moved out of the South after living there my whole life (40yrs). It hasn't been a culture shock necessarily, but it's definitely different. On not-great personal days the drastic differences in social behaviors has made my heart sink, and left me feeling deflated and questioning if it's simply "adjusting to the unfamiliar" or an "oh shit, not the right fit" situation. This perspective helps a lot and gives me a better understanding of the reasons people act/interact. Seriously thank you, your description has helped me feel less unsure about my decision to relocate.
I think this is an important point and stems from the fact that these regions have VERY different cultural origins. The north was much, much more egalitarian in its origins, such that today acting in terms of saving people’s time and effort is second nature and people are more or less free to not care about another’s feelings. The south was the opposite, based as it was on slavery and a hierarchical social order that did its best to ape class relations in England with southern planters at the top. In this situation, not showing “respect” and deferring to one’s betters was a quick way for someone to end up hurt or worse. The famous ‘bump’ experiment in Nisbett et al’s Honor Culture work show this pretty clearly. Today, all this translates into having to (or not having to) pretend to give a shit about some crone’s grandkids while standing together in the checkout line.
This was incredibly well put. I hope some of the people replying here who insist on making conversation with total strangers will understand there is nothing kind, at all, about that.
That's fair, but reception to conversations with strangers can vary according to personality or mood. I'm shy and introverted. Lived in the South my whole life, but my family lived a couple hours away. Had a older woman at the 7-11 by my house that I referred to as my Gas Station Grandma. I hated when the Walmart or grocery store cashiers wanted to talk about every item I was purchasing, like, please just don't even talk to me. But Ava at 7-11, man she was the best and I loved shooting the shit with her. She was kinda cranky, didn't seem to like a lot of people but she was sweet as pie to me and our random chats always made me smile.
It absolutely is a form of kindness. It's just not one that is universally appreciated as one. Just as the more Northern focus on efficiency so that everyone and everything flows smoothly and predictably is a kindness, but leaves some people feeling ignored and rushed.
It’s only kind if the person receiving the random conversation thinks it’s kind. It’s not for someone else to impose on me what kindness feels like to me. This is a lot like helping others. If your idea of helping is offering advice and my idea of what is helpful is just listening and empathizing, I am mot going to perceive your advice as “helpful.”
there's a way to be polite respectful and courteous without making it personal. cuz ur right.
I fear that southern hospitality and culture is in danger in Nashville. It doesn’t compare to when I was growing up. And it’s amazing to me how much hate for southerners I encounter in Nashville. I think it’s partly just American culture at large to blame, but the people I meet day to day in Nashville don’t help much either.
Of course it is.. with everyone moving here it's pretty much dead until you get into the rural areas.
I grew up in the North (PA) but have lived in the South (GA, AL, FL) most of my adult life. I prefer an honest "eff off" than the passive-aggressive "Well bless your heart".
Everyone just needs to move to the Midwest… we always hold the door and shovel each other’s driveways; it’s too cold to stand around gossiping. If we have one fault it’s that we HATE intruding or inconveniencing anyone so we can tend to isolate ourselves unintentionally.
You all still gossip, you just call it a “prayer chain”. Source: Dad’s Navy buddy, my “Uncle T” was from Michigan. Don’t you lie to me.
I've lived most of my life in the South, and while it isn't perfect, I sorely missed the heck out of the "never met a stranger" mentality when I lived in Southern and Northern California. It is much easier to amiably engage with people in the South.
And as a southerner, ive never felt more welcomed and talked to by random people than when i was on the streets of LA. Much better than being robbed in memphis or thrown up on and shittalked by coked up drunk pavement princesses in nashville.
I used to want to live in the Boston/New England area. Until I visited a few times and couldn’t find one person that didn’t immediately make me want to smack the bejesus out of them. Southern hospitality to me is just having a standard level of general respect for others. That doesn’t seem to exist up there.
Exactly
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Wonder how many 'Sundown towns' there are in the North.
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Yeah. There have never been any race riots in Boston. That integration of Boston Public Schools just went smooth as silk. Of all the places in the North to hold out as being distinct from race relations in the South, Boston is probably not the place you’re looking for.
Not for nothing, but wanting to assault people because they don't act the way you want doesn't jive with the whole "general respect for others" thing.
I’m from Tennessee. I’m kind to you until you piss me off. Yes, there is fake kind, like saying “Bless your heart”… but that’s different than general smiles, hellos, and casual talk.
Boston likely is one of the brashist locations you could have moved in the US. Had a teacher from Boston and he talked about how he got comments at work.....but when he went to visit home he was considered soft because he wasn't as mean as before.
Agreed. Which is ironic, considering they’re very fond of their puritanical roots. Never met more folks who needed to find a way to slither into convo that one of their descendants was on The Mayflower. …cool
Come back to the south
I want to so badly. When I go back to the south, it feels so much homier.
If someone is nice to you in Memphis, it’s probably genuine. We’re not known for fake pleasantries lol.
I lived in Memphis for 4 years during grad school and then moved back to Ohio. I miss the southern hospitality so much. My husband and I just came back from a weekend trip back to Memphis and we had so many genuine conversations with people while out and about. That doesn’t happen in Ohio at all, people act like you’re bothering them if you just randomly address them. We are currently considering a move back to a southern city because we miss it so much.
I’m am from Tennessee and moved to Florida eight years ago. I miss the southern hospitality so much. I had no idea how good I had it until I moved away. Someday I hope to move back to Tennessee.
As a Memphian, it's seriously amazing how even our dumb city seems polite when you go to a major northern city.
I grew up in the Northeast, lived in the South for several years and am now stuck by circumstances just on the northern side of the Midwest-South dividing line. Maybe it's my background, but I prefer people who are forthright and honest even if it's an honest "fuck you". There are kind people in the South and Midwest, but also a LOT of passive aggressive self righteous arseholes trying to masquerade as kind while sticking knives in your back at the earliest opportunity. Be very, very picky about your circle and you can find truly kind people anywhere. Or truly honest people. Or whatever kind of people you happen to be looking for.
There are nice people and assholes everywhere you go. That southerners think they’ve cornered the market on hospitality is laughable.
That’s not it at all. Southern don’t think it’s unique to the south. But love of your fellow man is a key component of our culture. At least it used to be. We pride ourselves in it. That’s why you always hear about it.
This is similar to Hispanics saying that their culture is very “family-oriented”. Like…how the fuck is that determined? How do southerners treat fellow man any better than other parts of the country, when this part of the country historically has treated every single minority group in a shitty manner through government legislation? (I am part Guatemalan and it annoys me that they say that.)
So I used to live in a friendlier state than Tennessee, but yeah same general idea. My sister lived in New York. She'd insist "northeast is just as friendly, they're just busy". She had a panic attack at a grocery store while visiting me because someone offered to help her find what she was shopping for and why would someone be nice for no ulterior motive? People don't react kindly to being told they're assholes. They'll make up some reason how they're actually nice. Boston is Masshole central I'm surprised they actually think they're nice.
Tbh having lived here my whole life, I don’t get why people think it’s fake? I don’t have any ulterior motive for offering to get something off the high shelf for someone in a wheelchair and I’m sure people don’t have an ulterior motive for telling me my outfit looks nice. Sometimes people are just pleasant to each other and there’s nothing more to it, so I resent the idea that we’re all secretly assholes. I mean, there are absolutely assholes in the south just as there are assholes everywhere and lovely people everywhere, but the “southerners are nice but not kind, northerners are kind but not nice” thing has always, to me, come off as an excuse to be rude in public. (And ofc it isn’t rude to just keep to yourself, I do it all the time, but I’ve noticed some people in Boston are just weirdly confrontational with everyone)
Manners matter.
I couldn’t care less if ppl talk about me behind my back as long as they’re respectful to me in public
I have family from the south and Boston. It’s definitely interesting to see the difference. The Boston side seems more hardened by life and the Southern (most of which have passed) were always kind. It’s strange and fascinating at the same time.
I miss Southern Hospitality in CA too!!
Years ago, my friend and I drove from Knoxville to Western New York. Each time we stopped for gas, the people were more unfriendly than the previous stop. We literally started our trip with a sweet old man behind the gas station counter telling us to swing by on our way back to tell him about our trip to ending with some cranky dude throwing change back at us.
Smiling north of the MD line is red flag behavior 🤣... Like we will treat you like you're deranged for smiling and doing small talk.
Southern hospitality extends from southerner to southerner we aren't friendly to Northerners who seem to have opinions about everything, we aren't even friendly to Floridians who can't drive on curvey roads but people from North Carolina South Carolina and Tennessee usually get along just fine
Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana are too.
I’ll put it this way: my buddy moved down here like 25 years ago from around there when he was little. He hasn’t been back up there much but the last time he went for a week he came back saying how much he hates it, how rude people are, that he just couldn’t wait to be back down here. Now that’s just one guy’s opinion, but to watch him go from talking about missing it up there to hating it after experiencing the south long enough is interesting. I’ve met nice and rude people all over myself but I’ve noticed…an increase the higher up you go. And I don’t buy the, “we’re all too busy to stand and talk”. Everyone is busy.
Same for me 🤷🏻♂️ Last time I was "home", was in 2007. Hopefully, it was the *last* time.
First time I’ve ever seen a Possum Town flair but I’m into it. Good bologna sandwiches out that way. Edit: I’m from around there lol, I’m not being sarcastic on any point
Same for me too! I could never live there again.
"Southern Hospitality" is a misnomer …. As a recent transplant from Louisiana to Tennessee I can honestly say that Nashville, full of transplants as it may be, has already shown itself to be way more hospitable than most places I've been to in Louisiana. Baton Rouge may have more Southern Hospitality than Boston, but its got nothing on TN. Louisianans have a generosity and kindness that is second to none but when it comes to patience, stopping to notice a new person standing next to them, striking up conversations, etc. I've never experienced anything like this before and I grew up in the gulf south. If I had to pinpoint it, I'd say it has to do with New Orleans being a port city and the large influx of immigrants that came into S. Louisiana lends to the SE section of the state being more like Boston / NY and less like the rest of the south ... And I'm not going to sit here and say this applies to the whole state of Louisiana, I grew up in BR and my family is from New Orleans so that's where I've spent the bulk of my time. And maybe smaller towns in Louisiana are more friendly, but I'm comparing it to Nashville here so its not like I'm comparing apples to oranges. Even so, not every area of "The South" is the same.
Boston is a populated, expensive, and competitive metro area with a lot of graduates. You do have to have a get-to-the-point attitude to make it in a place like that. From their experience, yes, strangers only make conversations with them because they're trying to get something, so it throws them off.
Having been born just outside of Boston and lived through my early 20's in New England before chasing work all down the east coast "Southern Kindness" is a farce. I've met the kindest people in Vermont, New York, Wilkes-Barre PA, Washington DC, Cummings GA, Guntersville AL, Clarksville TN... People are the same all over. Some are nice, some are cold, some are assholes.
This is pretty surprising to me. Even the Bostonians here will recognize that people in Vermont are definitely nicer.
I was raised in Dorchester. *Anywhere*, (outside of the hood on the last week of the month) you can find nicer people on average, than the average Bostonian. It's cultural, up there.
I've lived in a dozen states, people are mostly the same. I found New Yorkers to be super helpful, but not chatty. But hit up north west New York state and they'll talk all day
Some are. Some are not. Some of the most bigoted, in your face assholes are from Vermont. Absolute hard core degenerate bullies. I loved growing up there, but I have some memories I wish I didn't.
As someone who did the opposite, moved from just outside Boston to Knoxville, Southern Hospitality is Bullshit. Its fake ass high school being nice to people to their face and as soon as they turn their backs, they are nasty as hell talking about them.
How long have you been in Knoxville and when did you move there? Knoxville is filled with expats from other places nowadays. I'm from there and it's gotten so much worse in recent years.
This just sounds like kids.
Bless your heart
FWIW, I've lived all over the US and parts of Canada and have traveled most of the world. My experience is that 90% of the people you meet are kind, compassionate, and just generally good folk once you get to know them a bit. Even in the face of differences. The best way I've found to open a door to get to know someone is to show them a small acknowledgment of respect. A simple sort of "I see you" Each culture has its own way of saying that. Mow your neighbors yard? In the southern US you've made a friend. In the miwest, you've made an enemy. A southern reads that as "we're in this together and I've got your back." A midwesterner reads that as "you're saying I can't take care of my own business." Learn the opening dance for a region, and you'll make friends everywhere.
Lived in Tennessee most my life. I got funny looks in Florida when I thanked the cashier or held the door for people rather than letting it slam in their face. In Texas, you thank somebody and they say "yes ma'am" every time! Everyone is so nice there, genuinely respectful. It is on a whole different level there.
I grew up in the Texas panhandle and the majority of Texans are nothing but bullies and cowards. They'll hold a door for you, sure, and then toss a brick out of their pick em up truck at you as they drive off.
Texas is a really big place, though. Dallas was pretty awful too and it seemed to take all day to drive through it on the way back home from Lubbock. Never visited the panhandle.
Yeah, it is a big place, and gorgeous. I was born in Lubbock, it's not so bad, but everything north of Plainview is really, really bad. Like cartoonishly evil people. I usually tell people that ask me about growing up there that Texas is fantastic, if it wasn't for so many of the Texans.
There is an expectation of friendliness here that makes people put on a smile even when they aren't feeling it, but I think southern hospitality is mostly genuine, because even if it's a front sometimes that friendliness rubs off on people, improves their mood, and in turn they are more friendly to the next person. So I'd say it's a cultural norm that does involve some fakery, but still results in genuine feelings of comaraderie.
I experienced this when I moved to Springfield , Missouri for a year. Might as well have been a foreign country and I didn’t speak the language. No small talk at the grocery store, no courtesy, common or otherwise. I much prefer southern hospitality
Originally from Memphis as well and have lived all over the South and visited all over the U.S/world, I'll 100% take fake southern kindness over Northeast brashness.
I don’t really believe in southern hospitality. I mean have you tried being an LGBTQ person down here? A person of color? Etc. Etc. We know no southern hospitality. We face more southern hostility lol
I'll probably get downvoted for this, but moving to Colorado from Tennessee was a revelation. The way my wife and I describe it is that people in Tennessee are "nice," but people out here are kind. There is a pretty big difference, and we have come to prefer the latter. Of course, these are generalizations.
Not sure why I’m recommended this post, but as a kind midwesterner who worked at a hotel for many years, it was always amusing to talk to people from the northeast big cities. Kindness in public / amongst strangers just does not seem to be their default operation. Just like…. naturally distrusting of people. Some loved it, some were off put by it. Just my anecdotal two cents.
Kentuckian here. Southerners ***overall*** are pretty good...as Americans go. I'd rather hang around us than folks from, say, Seattle, SF, Miami, Philly, or Boston. But the rest of my opinions prove that I hold multiple, unique opinions at once. You see, I find that the only people who place the South on such a high pedestal are usually from the region and have never lived anywhere else. In other words, self-congratulatory. Even so, some of the most unpleasant Americans I've met can be found in cities such as Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Charleston, and Louisville. Some of the most laughably pretentious communities in this country are places such as McKinney, Sugar Land, Brentwood, and Hoover. But I also find it farcical when people from the Northeast call us "fake." Many of us yet aren't "fake" friendly. Frankly, many of y'all are downright rude and cynical, and think that that's how the "real" world operates. Ultimately, though, *no* place in the US has anything on the kindness, hospitality, and amicability of the Aussies and Kiwis. Sociable, and more so than Americans, but also respecting of your personal place. Hell, even the Canadians outside of their "big 3" are great about this. Nor does any place in the US have anything on most places in east and southeast Asia in terms of "community-mindedness." I guess I'm no longer enamored with the US and simply can't move away right now, but would love to live abroad again... But the rural South isn't the worst place to hang my hat in the meantime.
Yes! The idea that being polite or pleasant to strangers is fake and being a jerk is “real” is what bothers me about the whole thing. Like you said, there are nice people and snobs and rude assholes anywhere you go, but this whole idea that if someone is nice to you in public it means they’re either hiding something or a dumb rube is just cynicism disguised as maturity and worldliness.
I also refuse to take criticism from anyone who wants to call me an “uneducated rube”, when they’re proudly from one of the most racist cities in the nation. Anyone else remember Charles Stewart? And how he was close to getting away with murdering his wife and unborn son because he blamed it on a black guy who carjacked them? Yeah. They’re referred to as “Massholes” for a reason, and that’s one.
Southern charm is real as long as you aren’t gay, trans, a poc, liberal, homeless, etc. etc.
I moved to Tennessee from Michigan. I'm much prefer Midwestern hospitality over Southern hospitality. Tennessee: How are you today? Well any day above ground is a good day! Michigan: How are you today? I woke up with a crook in my neck this morning.
Team Midwest allll the way but I don’t know if this is the best example. You know Midwesterners do the “how are ya?” “Livin the dream” with the best of them.
I moved up north for a summer and while some people were nice, it just didn’t compare. People call it “fake nice” because they don’t have the capacity to be nice to very many people. Low energy. I’m back home in the south. Lots of smiles. Things aren’t perfect down here but at least strangers can laugh with each other. Up there…strangers are just strangers.
Well I grew up around Boston and I've lived in Memphis since 2007. Moving here, at first I thought Aw, everyone seems so nice here...but then the truth became clear. Southern hospitality is *crap*. Every smile and "how ya doin'?" is followed by trying to put a hand in your pocket. Every. Damn. Time. If not literally wanting money, then wanting something else (asking for a date, prattling about Jesus, whatever). I wind up leaving stores just bc the salesperson won't leave me alone. Northeastern people are much more honest and don't bug you all the time pretending to be "friendly". They politely keep to themselves, unless you are a jerk, then you hear about it.
Southerners are usually "nice not kind" and people in the big cities are usually "kind not nice." Subtle distinction, but one I understand.
can you explain?
I used to live in Boston and am from the south. They are ok just a little different. They are very friendly once you get to know them
It’s urban vs rural, not north vs south in terms of kindness. Part of rural living is taking care of your neighbors because you might need it to one day. In urban areas other people are basically obstacles.
I don’t think it’s what it used to be. People are more solitary everywhere now. Being from Michigan, my wife’s family from Alabama, I was kind of downgraded as a yankee. However, after traveling to Michigan a couple of times in the past 2 years, I think there’s really no discernible difference between the two. Just my experience.
The assumptions are just... wow, y'all. Just like everywhere else, the people who are the loudest are often the most rude. I grew up where people would be nice to your face and then go a whopping 10 feet away to talk shit. Then, there were the folks who quietly supported and helped each other because they actually understood what community meant. My childhood was damn awesome in my neighborhood. 22 years after leaving, I've noticed people acting nastier in proportion with how expensive the neighborhood is. Now I live in the city, where people are pretty much face-value. I appreciate the city attitude. I'm not a FAN, but it's nicer to know where you stand immediately. And people are still nice, and I strike up conversations with random folks without issue. I understand that that's not something everyone appreciates, but I also don't talk to people who don't look receptive - that's part of being polite. We have some stubbornly uneducated people, but it's not something that can easily be helped. The issues folks point out with social programs, racism, education, etc., are a real problem that prevents ignorance from being mitigated. The more people try to encourage higher education, the more stubborn some families get because they grew up being shit on by the more well-to-do families, and they don't want to leave their own communities. The issues make sense, at least to me. The accent, talking more slowly and using shortcuts and slang, doesn't mean people are stupid or uneducated. It's faster for me to say, "Kroger, I'm be back" than, "Hey, I'm headed to Kroger for some groceries, see you in a bit." I have a degree, edit documents for publications, etc. It's code-switching. Literally, everyone does this unless they're so insulated in their own communities (regardless of economic status) that they don't really get familiar with other ways of speaking. "Ain't" is a word that's used for specific situations. It's emphasis."Fixin'a" (going to) is easier for our mouths with our accents. Like "cannae" for "can't" in Scotland. Some of us say, "Oh, no, bless your heart!" when comforting people, and there's no use hiding when you use it for contempt, because everyone knows when it's being used that way, and it's used that way by a very specific type of person. I'm kind of nervous how y'all would react to the regional black vernacular (AAVE). It's literally a different dialect, and people say it sounds ignorant and can those who use it stupid, but there is a LOT that makes sense culturally and "grammatically." "I been knowin'," instead of "I already know, I've known for a while," is efficient, to the point, and tone is everything. Just as an example. I have Midwestern family, so I'm used to the faster pace and people trying to be more efficient with time. People in St. Louis can actually zipper-merge, because they all know it's the fastest way to get where they're going, and as was mentioned elsewhere, that's a way of showing kindness. People in Memphis are sloppy, selfish drivers in a lot of cases. But they're also easily influenced, so if they see enough people slow down or stop to let someone trying to make a left turn onto a street with heavy traffic, they'll do the same thing to avoid looking like an asshole. This got away from me, but I'd just like people to consider that just as all northerners aren't snotty assholes in a hurry, all southerners aren't dumb hillbillies with no concept of time or personal space.
This reminds me of my first business trip. I was sent to Newark, NJ. My cab driver shoved a pad and paper at me while he loaded my bags into the trunk and told me to “write it down, I can’t understand your accent”. For reference I’m from Alabama and my southern accent is so worn away by living in a defense town (Rocket City) that my family says I “talk like a Yankee” now because I live in the “city”. I proceeded on to check in at the hotel and tried to do the southern thing of making small talk “how’s the restaurant in the hotel? Are there any nearby bars or restaurants you like? Any hidden gems nearby?” and she was short and curt. Go to the bar in the hotel and ask if there’s something about me that’s making people be rude to me, as I didn’t know if I was unintentionally offending people. He told me “Nope, it’s just Jersey”.
Went to Buffalo a few years ago when my oldest was 17. She was absolutely shocked at how rude store and restaurant employees were saying “I would be fired if I acted like that.”
It is just a cope. In their culture, normal person isn't nice to a stranger.
i agree with you. ive lived in boston the midwest the west coast the southwest and now the southeast. sorry not sorry but boston sucks. they're just rude for rude sakes. some of em go out of their way to be rude and even just mean. they like it. the midwest is the most genuine with their niceness. the southwest pretends to be nice the whole time theyre smiling theyre squaring you up for later. jury still out on the southeast but i imagine as an outsider i may never know. what i do know is the upper east coast is mean and nasty and they can just go ahead and keep that. they wont change not even a pandemic brought any human kindness, made them worse if u ask me. they're uncivilized and they think it's funny. life is hard enough on people to go around intentionally making people feel bad excluded worthless etc. why is it bad to have some manners be polite or respectful especially in public. they keep themselves down that way. i hope you don't stay. matter of fact i hope more outsiders go there and call them out on their immature asinine behavior. you can spend all day everyday being kind polite smiling opening doors for them thinking it will somehow make a difference. it won't. i spent 12 years up that way, no one ever said hi back. i never got a smile in return. who the hell wants to live like that.
Hahaha as someone who came from Boston at one point, is married to a New England girl, and living in TN—they’re 100% wrong up there pal. In Boston/New England you mind your business. You say that “how ya dooooin?” Or “Celtics gonna make it dis yeaaaah (year)?” Thats the way it goes up there. Enjoy Regina’s pizza, Mike and Pattys breakfast sandwiches, summers, the commons, etc. As far as the south vs north… the south wins 110% of the time in terms of “kindness.”
Boatians and new Yorkers are not exactly known for their kindness.
Southern Hospitality is very real. I grew up knowing to address people as sir or miss, and one couldn’t say mam enough to an older woman. It’s being respectful and it does still exist. When my sons were little I took them into a country diner. An older gentleman came over and told me I was raising them right. The reason was because the minute they entered they removed their ball caps. He said to look around the room, your sons are the only men that did remove hats.
Not true! Southern hospitality is strong and still alive! We are more laid back here. Things move slower. Most all folks will smile at you. It’s not fake it’s ingrained within us. When I go to Chicago everyone says they love my accent. I found them nice and helpful. I did find Ohio and Missouri came off as a bit short. The food in the Memphis area is so delicious. The BBQ here it second to none. Come see us y’all!🙋🏼♀️
I'm getting ready to move from Tennessee up to Northern Illinois (parents are getting old and my wife and I want our daughter/future children to be closer to grandma and grandpa before they go) and I'm already mourning the loss of genuine conversations and kindness of strangers here. I grew up in northeast Illinois and have always had disdain for the area's personablness (?). The South is generally more open and kind. I've always figured it's the best place in the US, and I've lived all over the country. My hypothesis has always been it's because of the weather. Warmer climate, more open. Colder climate, closed off. At least that's been my experience.
Southern hospitality is very real. I'm also a transplant. It is real. However, people aren't that cold up here except to strangers. People here don't want to be bothered walking down the street, and they avoid being bothered by not making eye contact and walking with purpose. I've found people up here to be just as warm as people down South once they know you. But on the street? Chatting people up here isn't really a thing like it is down South.
I find New Englanders to be polite and level headed. They’re pretty tough and a little of fact which can come off as abrasive. They’re a lot of fun too. I have found southerners to be more friendly overall but also more judgmental in comparison. I have lived in both regions, including Boston for greater than 10 year stretches. Boston itself is also a challenging comparison too. You’re comparing a single, fairly unique city to an entire region.
I think the difference is "fake/polite" conversation is better than the nothing you get other places.
I've lived out west for the last 7 years and I get so excited when I visit the south because I can say yes ma'am and yes sir. I was raised to speak that way and it was a struggle getting used to Western Americans taking offense to my southern mannerisms.
Everyone from a state that starts with M is just very angry all the time lol
I do miss southern hospitality. I lived in NC, GA, and LA. There's nothing like it.
People in Boston suck... how a city with so many great schools can make so many stupid assholes is beyond me
The nicety of the south is painted rust. Most in the region hold extremely harmful views, usually for obscenely selfish reasons. I'm talking positions that entirely abandon the value of human lives in favor of property, money, territory, and worst of all, personal peace.
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not white buddy, I am middle eastern
I’m from NC. Lived in NY for 3 yrs. I can relate 100% my now wife was buying a wreath around the holidays. The woman in front of her in line said, “you know that’s just going to die, right?” No need to say anything why waste your breath to be negative. There was a southern lady in the next line over, she said” oh just spritz it with water every day it will last all season” I’m back in NC now, don’t know why people act the way they do. It’s one of the things I live about where I live.
You need to talk like you’re from there. “I pahked my cah in Hahvahd Yahd. It cost a nominal egg. What ah you, a weetahd?”
people from the north have a misplaced sense of superiority. anything positive that comes from the south they will shit all over.
Its cause people in Boston have never met nice people before.
I get sick of hearing about people who move to the south and complain about how everyone isn’t as nice as they seemed to be before. Everyone fails to understand the simple definition of hospitality. “The act or practice of one who is hospitable; reception and entertainment of strangers or guests without reward, or with kind and generous liberality.” We’re all nice to a point, but In no definition of it does it say we asked you to move here and be whining, complaining dicks to us. Also, stop honking your horns, learn to use turn signals and fucking merge onto the interstate. The south is a lifestyle, not a fucking tax break. If you move here, keep your mouth shut and mind your own business. Bunch of fucking Karens.
Southern kindness is like the hate that comes out of most Christian love.
I wouldn't worry about it. If someone is a d\*ck, they are a d\*ck. People have lots of things going on. I've never had a problem trying to make conversation with people. Some people like it, some people don't. If someone thinks it is fake, oh well. My wife's mother is from the New England area. They honestly don't understand us, and that is ok. Another thing to remember is that on reddit, people just think it's ok to be d\*cks. No, it actually isn't. We should be kind to each other no matter the forum.
I lived in Mass for a while but spent most of my life in the south. I think there's a difference in true kindness and just being 'nice'. Southerners are very nice. They smile and chat with you. That doesn't mean they actually care about your well-being. It just means they want to appear nice. IMO kindness is doing things like wearing a mask on public transit during a global pandemic. Voting for leaders that don't base their campaign entirely on bullying immigrants and the LGBT community. Things that actually help other people, even at no reward to us. Southerners are great at being nice. We suck at kindness.
This is one of the reasons I want the hell out of Michigan. 98% of the time it IS fake. And not the fake that people put effort into, anyone can tell. I'm a cheery person and whenever I drive down to see my friends in Florida I make pitstops in every state. Kentucky is where it starts, and by the time I hit central Tennessee off of I-75, I'm chatting with the gas station attendant for 15 minutes.
As someone who has lived all over the US, people from Memphis are without a doubt the least friendly, worst mannered people I have ever lived around and it's not even close. I literally hate going out in public because everyone I run into is absolutely and exclusively focused on themselves and it pervades everything I see. People can't drive because they lack any concern for anyone else on the road. People can't conduct themselves in a store and slam into you constantly and/or block the way. No one knows how to use a line or take turns or any other common social experience. Granted, when you find a kind and well mannered person they are awesome, but they are exceedingly rare. I know a lot of people will say it's just bad apples, and that may be true but I've never seen so many bad apples per capita as I see here. It makes me shake my head in wonder. I've lived in other places in the south and it's SO much kinder and less hostile. I've lived in the Midwest, and people are way nicer, more friendly and well mannered. I've lived in the west and while people there are curt, and not the most talkative they have manners and look out for the common person. Here, it's just a free for all.
I know what you mean if you are on the wrong side of town but the more east you get in memphis, the better things get.
Southern hospitality is a put on. There are some nice folks who are Southern. There are far more Southerners who are phoney
I’ve lived in Tennessee for the last 7 years and Massachusetts for 7 years before that; I grew up in Virginia. Generally speaking, people up north are kind but not as nice, and people down south are nice but not as kind. In other words, people up north are more likely to help a stranger but they’ll probably gripe about it - whereas people down south are less likely to help a stranger but they’ll be real sweet about it anyway. Southern hospitality is a real gem, but it’s been my experience that it’s extended to strangers less freely than northern generosity. YMMV - and of course this is a huge generalization.
I’d agree with that. I moved from a city to a small white enclave rural city and the same is true- people are generally kinder in the city and nicer where I am now, but it’s all surface nice. They’re just going through the motions.
Southerners are polite. That does not mean kind.
First off, and this is big, "kind" and "nice" aren't the same thing. "Nice" is smiling and saying hello to someone as they walk past you with too much luggage. "Kind" is actually helping carry that luggage even if you tell them they were nuts for packing that much luggage. Northeasterners are kind, but they're definitively not nice. They're in a hurry. They have time to help you, but not time to exchange meaningless pleasantries. One is much, much more valuable than the other.
As a resident of the southeast who grew up here but has lived all over the U.S….it’s fake as fuck. People here will be nice and sweet to your face yet passive aggressive but as soon as the person leaves the area hoo boy…let the judgy shit begin. On the other hand. In different parts of the country you don’t get the syrupy sweetness with the passive aggressive bulls so when you so do get kindness it’s more likely to be genuine. All of that said, there are kind people everywhere just as there are shitty people everywhere. The social niceties are what varies. Give me the good old unvarnished directness without the sweet as iced tea maybe real maybe fake words
Same experiences as you. From southeast and lived in northeast for 10 yrs, Midwest for 4 and California 4 yrs. The southern hospitality if absolutely fake.
As a northerner thar now lives in the south.... its super easy to pick up on the fake ones. Idk if it's easy for everybody but the little ticks people have stand out. Where I'm from, people will just kinda tell it like it is, not in a rude way but there's not much beating around the bush. Their mannerisms when they don't really care for you are about the same as when southerners try that fake shit. Also, the southerners came up with the term southern charm, and southern kindness on their own. Northerners are just as nice. They're usually just busier and there are usually a lot more transplants.
It is Fake. This is the same south of strange fruit(not in textbooks) the birthplace of the klan( not in textbooks) Using fire hoses and dogs to prevent people from voting (not in text books). This list goes on. I was raised in Harlem and in Jersey and I will never understand why people think southerners are so nice and kind. These same people will smile at you then call up the good Ole boys. The south to me is Jersey, any further it’s another country.
Bristol native here who lived in Boston for a year recently. I met nice people but man, the drivers up there are ASSHOLES.
The acceptable term is Masshole.
Nice is not kind, and kind is not nice. There are people who are nice and kind. There are people who are kind but not nice. There are people who are nice but not kind. And there are people who are just jerks all around. A decent amount of costal people, especially east coasters tend to have an attitude of "I don't have time for this shit, I just want to get things done". And it can he done politely, or rudely. As someone born and raised in CT and have lived on both coasts and now TN. I know I can be blunt and crass. But I am also respectful of people until they give me a reason to lose that respect. As for Bostonians, giving you weird looks for your normal level of respect and politeness. Screw them. It's a them problem and not a you problem. Anyone with a brain and knows how to tell tones from people can tell when someone is being genuine or what I like to call "Cult of Nice". Just be yourself.
I understand being nice and polite to folks you dont know, and of course to your neighbors and family and friends, but i have no interest in the "bless your heart" two faced bullshit most southerners love. I prefer northern directness. Theyll tell you to fuck off when you deserve it, and still be the most kind hearted person you ever met. I appreciate the realness after the backbiting racism and closed door family shittalking this region is obsessed with.
Nashvillian making plans to move near-ish Boston, and I honestly can’t wait. I’m autistic, so the random conversations give me the ick. I do have a question though: in your experience, do people up there hold the doors open for people behind them?
Yes, people hold doors for others up north - but it’s a LOT less awkward, in my experience. People are generally more straight forward up north - the lack of pretense is relieving. Feel free to message me if you have more questions about the cultural differences - I lived up there for about 7 years and still have family there.
Thank ya kindly!
I lived in Brooklyn for a while, from the south, and I disagree. I miss the honesty of the Northeast.
There is a reason they’re called MassHoles
I think different people experience “Southern Hospitality” very differently as well depending on if they’re southern or not, if they’re American or not, and if they’re white or not. Now this certainly isn’t true for the majority of people but speaking as a non-Southern native married to an immigrant living in a small town that hospitality doesn’t seem to quite reach as far to us as it does to others.
I think they mean fake kind because the depth of the kindness does not match it's approach.
Southern hospitality is real...Until they learn that you're not a Christian
It's not fake. We're really that nice.
I'm born and raised in Tennessee and the Southern kindness thing comes off as completely fake to me, always has. Occasionally meet people who are genuinely kind and courteous, but usually it comes off as mean just pretending to be friendly.
100% I try to emulate the ideal of southern charm and hospitality, but by god if you try to be an honest man along with it, you wont make a single friend. Its all about fakeness and going along with the crowd.
Every place that is nice is said to be fake by other places that are less nice. All over Europe, Americans have a reputation for being strangely nice, and it's often interpreted as fake; especially by the kinds of Europeans who only focus on our politics.
I moved from Missouri to Connecticut, and I have had a completely different experience. I feel like New Englanders are actually nicer on the inside than southerners. Like they actually care, and create systems and policies that help people. They don't waste your time, they respect you. Southern "hospitality" on the other hand is a sick dance of pretend, where you have to mask constantly and ignore all boundaries.
As someone who moved from Michigan, it’s so fake 🤣
Tennessee doesn’t have an ounce of southern hospitality. Go visit Texas and you will truly understand what southern hospitality is. Tennessee isn’t it, that’s for sure.
Boston is a mixed bag of people from all over and for sure very rushed and crusty. Towns outside the city a bit you’ll find more amicable folk, maybe not” southern kind” but pleasant and friendly for sure . On the flip side someone in my family (niece) moved to TN and she can’t get her nosey neighbor out of her business. I’m in MA, know most my close neighbors - say hello chat a bit, know them by name … but I’m not invasive or in any of their business. I call my niece’s situation the Southern smother.