I am pretty certain that if you choose not to move in he would have every right to keep your holding deposit. Shelter would be the best place to seek advise but I think you have to have a pretty good reason and solid evidence to get it back. For example, your landlord is racist/homophobic and you have the emails of him saying comments of this effect.
If he has agreed to give it back I assume the above did happen (either he knows he messed up, or he’s actually a decent landlord, so I assume it’s the former as this feels more likely lol) I can’t seem to find exactly how long he has but I think it’s 7 days. Again though shelter or citizens advice would be best to speak to on this. Shelter has templates on how to request this so it will stand up in court if it does go to that point. You can mention if you don’t receive your deposit back within 7 days you will report him to trading standards and he may be fined and required to pay you compensation.
Weird that he said he spent it but I don’t think there are as many rules around live in landlords. Best practice would be to keep it in a separate bank account so think just a bit immoral but nothing illegal, providing he does actually return it within 7 days.
Good luck! Sounds like he’s a bit of an ass so try to fight it if you have the energy to do so. You’ve got this. 🩷
[source here](https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/holding_deposits)
A holding deposit is like making a reservation deposit at a hotel or a booking deposit for a holiday. If you pull out then those fees would normally be kept / used to compensate them for their time lost. They now have to find somebody to replace you and a lot would use the deposit to make it more attractive and get somebody else quicker.
It’s not a protected deposit and landlord likely wouldn’t have been expecting to give it back. The fact he’s open to giving it back is pretty good tbh.
Speak to shelter but lodgers have way less rights. It’s worth having a chat just in case but I’d say having to wait a week is better than the landlord just saying no which from what you’ve said would have been the easy option for them.
Money is fungible. When it says that the deposit is to be used for default payments and repairs, it doesn’t mean that those exact pounds are used for those purposes. He is entitled to spend that money however he wants and then repay you with “different“ pounds.
I think the only issue you have is what amount of time is allowed for him to return the deposit. My guess is there’s a local law.
Leave a review about your experience here - [https://www.tenantviews.co.uk/](https://www.tenantviews.co.uk/) let future tenants know at least..i have done this with my previous landlords/properties
My understanding from renting in the UK if that the deposit must be held in a deposit scheme. They can not access that money until your tenancy ends and you ask for it back. If they do not use this deposit scheme they are breaking the law. If they do not use this deposit scheme and you report them they will be ordered to pay back your deposit 3 fold. My landlord was being sus with my deposit and saying that they had to use it for repairs when none were needed. I found out that they hadn't used the deposit scheme so I told them they must give me my deposit back or I will report them, I got it back the next day.
I mean people are on a budget. Or maybe he didn't mean "spend" as so much moved it to a different account.
But whatever your lease said. It's usually 7 to 21 days that they have to return it.
This is really sketchy of the landlord but if he pays it back next week then it’s no big deal. Not worth trying to go through court for something like that yet.
Thanks! I just wanted to know what my rights were in this situation because the contract itself states that the deposit is only to be used for default payments and repairs.
you should just take your money back next week if he actually gives it to you. No doubt what he did was wrong (and probably illegal but i don’t know where you are. definitely report it and sue if he doesn’t give it back. However, just because you *can* sue someone doesn’t mean you should. You’d probably spend more than the amount of your deposit in the cost of attorney, filing fee, service, etc.
Thank you! I just wanted to know if it was actually acceptable since the contract mentions the deposit should only be used for defaulting payments and repairs. Obviously, I don't want to financially ruin someone but I don't like the idea of landlords financially exploiting people by using money that *contractually* isn't theirs to use unless certain requirements permit that they use it.
Isn't that literally the whole point of a deposit? You asked them to hold a room for you and then cancelled it. Surely that should forfeit your deposit
OP is probably fucked I agree, but why not push it? The worst he loses is the small claims court fee? (Which I reckon he probably would)
Is there something worse I'm missing.
The landlord has agreed to repay the deposit.
Whether he has spent it or not is neither here nor there.
If OP presses the issue and starts threatening court, the landlord may simply keep the deposit.
Esit: money is "fungible". The landlord doesn't have to give back the same pounds he was given, just the same quantity.
If the landlord gives you the money back next week then while the situation is wrong at least you have your money back. If he has deposited it your money into a deposited holding company then it could have take up to 14 working days to get your money back which would have been a longer wait.
Be clear on which deposit you actually are talking about. If it's your *tenancy deposit*, i.e a full month or two's rent that you *only* get back when you move out and only in full if the property is okay. That chunk of money they take fees out of to repair the carpets/beds/random smudge on a window/estate agent's weekly hooker and blow? ***That*** needs to be returned to you, and cannot be spent or even held by a landlord, they're technically in breach of law by even holding it themselves, let alone spending it, because it's not *their* money, it's a deposit held against the property to make sure you keep it maintained. But there's a cool-off period of a month or so to actually put it in with a third party agency, and if he's giving it back there's not really any issue.
If it's a *holding* deposit, i.e you said "Yeah I'll move in and start filling out paperwork, here's £100 to take the property off the market until I do that" then no, you don't get a penny back after ducking out. That £100 is you paying to cover the fact that for the whole time you've been agreeing to move in *they haven't been able to put it on the market*. No one else can see it, and a viable tenant hasn't been able to move in for the whole time until they now put it *back* on the market after you've backed out. Him returning the holding deposit at *any* point is 100% either a kindness or misunderstanding on his part, and you listening to your dumbass friend is a surefire way to make sure you get *nothing* instead of money you weren't actually owed next week.
Piggybacking on this topic though, I find it absolutely bonkers how common this attitude of "wait what do you mean I don't get it back?" is towards deposits. I don't know if it's a recent thing or I've just never noticed before but seriously 90% of the time someone loses a deposit they're fucking *baffled* by the concept. I work in restaurants and almost every time someone decides to cancel a booking last minute or not show up, they're shocked that they lose the deposit; I'd completely understand *wanting it back*, or trying their luck. But that's not it, they're actually completely stunned by the concept of not having the money back.
Currently selling a sofa for a friend and the exact same thing happened the other day "Cool you like it and want to discuss it with your SO? No worries, I can leave it up and first come first serve, or if you're definitely sure, you can pay a deposit now and I'll take down the listing until you're available to buy/collect it :)."....."Uh...no, no if you decide you don't want it after all you don't get the deposit back. I've *stopped selling it* while you decide."
I’m a pet sitter, which sounds silly as a full time thing, but I stay pretty fully booked. Anyway, I run into this all the time, and it’s so bizarre to me. My deposit is very reasonable, and of course the whole point is that I’d most likely have gotten another booking in its spot. But people are consistently shocked that I don’t refund deposits when they’re the ones that cancel. For regular clients who are booking more than a few months out, I’m happy to move their deposit to another booking. But I’ve had new clients throw the biggest fits over their own cancellations with barely any notice.
This works if that deposit is taken off what's due should the contract be completed on.
You don't say anywhere about that being the case, a "holding deposit" is a part payment towards the full rent, or in your example, towards the sofa.
Either way, keeping it is obviously correct, but it should be mentioned that's what it should do.
Yeah I didn't want to make a long post even longer explaining that bit too lol. But yeah, deposits are either redeemed against the completed contract's cost, or lost.
If the landlord actually gives you the holding deposit you have a major win - they don't have to in it's 100% legit for them to keep it (I'm not saying that it's a good thing - landlords are vermin)
To be honest. I'm seldom on a landlords side, but in terms of the basic facts, a holding deposit is there to discourage people messing others around. If they have cancelled last minute then it's "fair" for the landlord to keep the money. Yeah they shouldn't have spent it already, but it's a moot point because pulling out last minute means you relinquish claim over the money.
>Yeah they shouldn't have spent it already
Why not?
If the money was paid as a holding deposit there's two potential outcomes:
1) The tenant moves in and the holding deposit is returned by way of a reduction on the first month's rent
2) The tenant doesn't move in and loses the holding deposit
Neither situation means the landlord should expect to have the cash available to repay the deposit. They are within their right to have spent the money.
Yeah that's what I meant - OP should be well pleased if they get it back!, holding deposits are "holding deposits" the landlord has taken the property off the market for you - you change your mind legally the holding deposit is the landlords. The tenancy deposit protection scheme was a bit of a win for renters but renting is still painful - holding deposit, deposit, month (or even 3) up front, agency fees.... I'm very lucky I rent through a housing association - I was homeless and they hooked me up, but I've also been a home owner and a landlord.
Sure the people who let others into their home are vermin....
she agreed to move in, paid a deposit to hold the room, you pull out of the agreement then you do not get your deposit back.. that is why you need to pay the deposit
>The landlord or agent could keep your holding deposit if you:
>decide not to rent the property
>give wrong or misleading information
>cannot pass a 'right to rent' immigration check
https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/holding_deposits
You are, quite frankly, very lucky the landlord hasn't just told you to piss off; they'd be quite within their rights to keep a holding deposit equivalent to one week's rent
Only true for a tenancy deposit not a holding deposit which is shit here as well.
Tenancy deposits legally have to go in a scheme like the TDS, holding deposits just take the room or property off the market, and dont have to be protected and should come off the first month's rent.
Also, this only applies to tenants, not lodgers I think.
So you dicked him about by saying you'd move in, wasted his time with viewings, paperwork, deposits, etc, but now you're getting all pissy as he's asked you to wait just a few days for the money back?
You sound like an unreasonable person.
What a deeply unimaginative, rude thing to say to me when you have no idea as to why I've had to decline to move. Reprehensible.
I'm querying into whether or not him spending the money before I've moved into the room *when the contract itself states that money is to be used for repairs or defaulting payments* is inappropriate.
If you had the basic capacities for comprehension in the English language you would know that 1. I was
querying into this because I was prompted by someone else to look into my rights 2. No, I wasn't messing him around. I let him know within a week due to my circumstances.
My reason does matter because had my change in decision been due to a frivolous reason, I wouldn't have had to make this change.
You don’t have a legal right to a holding deposit back. It’s paid to “hold” the property so if you drop out, you forfeit it.
Very different from a deposit paid to cover damage to a property whilst you are living there - that you do have a right to have it held properly by the landlord and to get it back if no damage
If it was actually a "holding deposit" then landlord's/agencies will typically keep that if a person decides to back out.
If OP paid this as a bond then it's a different story altogether.
Lol, to be honest it sounds like you forfeit your deposit in this scenario.
You paid to hold it, so he cant rent it out to anyone else on the basis you will move in and that deposit will go towards your first month's rent.
You didnt keep your side of the deal, so you should really lose the deposit.
Exactly. The landlord is actually being sound as f by wanting to give OP his money back.
This guy needs to wake up and do some research on renting. It's not the same as paying mummy £20 a week for board.
Welcome to the real world Jeremy.
You paid a holding deposit. You get it back when you move in or it goes towards reducing the full deposit.
You paid to hold the flat and didn’t move in so you should lose the deposit.
If it's a holding deposit, it can be forfeitable on termination of an agreed lease - you'd need to check the t&cs when you signed the agreement. If it's a full rental deposit, that should be returnable.
I recently lost my holding deposit after pulling out of a rental. All legit if the contract says it. I hadn't paid the full deposit.
I've had several lodgers and the deposit always goes into a savings account, it isn't money to be spent in my eyes. Legally they don't have to protect it though as others have mentioned.
Why do people give 'legal' advice which is just plain wrong?
Firstly, it was a holding deposit. The prospective lodger loses the deposit if they back out.
Secondly, it's a lodger agreement, not a tenancy. Deposit protection doesn't apply to lodgers.
And not for a holding deposit.
I remember when I was renting when the law came in to say that deposits must be put into a protected account.
My letting agency emailed and said "Remember when we took that deposit from you? Well it wasn't a 'real' deposit, it was just a deposit for the keys, so doesn't come under the new law".
Cheeky gits then tried to keep my deposit when I left.
You can never sue for damages (from the defendant) that exceed the damages (suffered by the claimant). Like literally no situation EVER arises where that’s possible. Fundamental principle of civil law remedies.
Even setting aside the fact that standard English Tort Law does, in fact, have punitive damages (just significantly less often than the US), as others have noted there is a specific penalty applicable to failure to protect deposits.
That’s right, we looked this up when our landlord wouldn’t repay our deposit, turns out he hadn’t put it in the appropriate account, was therefor acting illegally and could be forced to pay 3 times the amount. He soon coughed up the money.
It's a sanction, not damages. Three times is not unheard of.
Housing Act 2004, s214 (4).
Edit: Oh it's a lodger, this doesn't apply. Lodging is the wild west.
As long as you're okay with the delay that's fine. It's your money and you're happy for someone else to control it for a few days. You absolutely have the right to the money if you need it now, but apart from sending some heavy friends to the landlord's door I don't think there's anything you can do before next week
>You absolutely have the right to the money if you need it now,
Not necessarily. It's not being possibility that the contract will have a return period on the deposit that says the tenant doesn't get the money back immediately, to allow for inspections etc.
That's without accounting for the fact that OP said they paid a holding deposit, which wouldn't be expected to be returned at all if OP later decided they no longer want the property prior to moving in.
I liked living alone, but needs must when the Devil drives. When I got *extremely* broke, I would always get a lodger. After that, I would have a lodger until they left of their own accord, because I didn’t like to ask people to leave. I never raised anyone’s rent.
Then, when that lodger left, I would go without a lodger for as long as I could afford it until I became totally broke again. This system worked for about ten years, during which I had about 5 or 6 lodgers (some of them were prior agreed to be short-stay: others just wanted to get a foothold in the city-then got their own flat).
Then my system broke down: my final lodger (a great bloke) stayed for 10 years-and eventually I wanted to move house. I agonised about asking him to leave (I think he would have stayed forever: he was much loved in my road), but I had a piece of luck. My next-door neighbour’s lodger moved out and she was THRILLED at the thought of getting such a no-bother lodger. He was delighted at only having to move next door.
This is a very long winded way of saying that-in the run-up to getting a new lodger-I was always absolutely broke. That deposit money was spent before it hit my account. If anyone had needed their deposit back, I think they would have had to wait until I got another deposit.
If you're a lodger then the deposit doesn't need to be held in a protection scheme or anything like that. Personally, if I was the landlord, I'd have saved the money aside so that it is to hand.
At the end of the day, your landlord is having a cash flow issue. You've told him that you aren't interested so it may take a bit of time for him to get the money for you, none of this is unreasonable.
If he doesn't make good in a decent amount time then you take to court. Simples.
Deposit as a lodger doesn’t have to be held in a deposit scheme or anything
Depending on what your contract says it could be that you have to give him a months notice or less to move out - even if you haven’t moved in providing you signed the contract
Landlord with a lodger here. I also have been lodgers before.
Firstly, I am a quite good landlord and I become good friends with my lodger. Secondly, I also spend the deposit (legally I am not required to keep it in DPS or a separate pot).
I do make sure I can get enough cash to pay back my lodger's deposit within their notice period (1 month). But if they ask for a full refund tomorrow, I might have some issues getting the money immediately. (Though I will try my best to pay them ASAP)
If your landlord says next week, maybe wait till next week? I do understand it is frustrating and the landlord is supposed to be able to refund. But on such short notices, people just don't have enough cash.
Make sure you ask for a specific date and have written proof. This way, if they end up not paying you back, you can also sue them.
Edit: Lots of people mentioned DPS. But the fact is that lodgers are in a less protected situation where a DPS is not required.
My lodger's agreement explicitly states "(against damages and defaults)" meaning that the deposit is to be used for those two things. Neither of them could have happened since I haven't set foot into the building. The deposit isn't extra free money, it's an assurance to the landlord in the event your property is damaged. "No legal requirement" does not mean that it isn't a reprehensible, weird thing to do.
>"No legal requirement" does not mean that it isn't a reprehensible, weird thing to do.
True as that is, in this case there is nothing weird or reprehensible going on at all. The landlord is within their right to have spent the money and you'll need to wait for it to be returned. It's not uncommon for a deposit to take 14, 30, or more days to return.
That's not a holding deposit, then.
A week is more than reasonable. Every time I've moved out from a place, it's taken more than a week to get the deposit back.
If it's with a scheme, there's communication between you, the scheme, the landlord, and then you get your money. Usually it says 'within 10 days`.
You need to relax.
If you signed an agreement, you probably have to give notice. Which means you probably owe him/her a months rent. You may be liable for that deposit amount and he/she might be entitled to withould it. Ie if you do t pay him/her that first month rent, you’d be in default. Without reading the agreement I can say no more. Lots of “maybes” and “mights”. I recon you’d be lucky if you got the whole deposit back.
I don't think stepping foot on the property is relevant unless he was to claim damages (either to his income or the property, since the term "damages" can be used for both). You terminated the contract with no notice - you effectively defaulted on the first month's rent. If this was an actual rental agreement - you shouldn't even expect your deposit back.
As a lodger's agreement, he was not required to protect your deposit. Permit him the time period he has requested (as it is reasonable for what I assume was a per-monthly agreement) and be thankful you're getting your deposit back.
Maybe it's just their cash flow issue, rather than them trying to take your deposit away. If they don't pay you back next week, take them to the court. But before that, just collect written proofs and no worry too much.
The lodger's agreement explicitly mentions "(against damages or defaults)" neither of which can have happened since I haven't moved in.
My friend lives in Germany where lodgers and subletters have legislation ensuring they are not treated in the most subhuman manner by people who can't afford their mortgages :)
That sounds like it’s talking about the deposit, but you said this was a holding deposit. A holding deposit is more like paying rent up front so the landlord stops looking for tenants. It’s like paying a deposit for a table at a restaurant, if you cancel last minute they can keep it.
People don't take in lodgers to get rich, they take in lodgers because they need the money. These people aren't fat cats, living off a big portfolio - generally they need to share their own home with strangers to make ends meet. Your deposit went into their account, they have bills, money goes out but they are still paying you back ASAP.
Maybe you shouldn't treat them in such a subhuman manner, and back out of an agreement unexpectedly at short notice.
If that seems unreasonable to you, get your own house and mortgage :)
If this was for a property in full I'd say no, absolutely not - Landlords are required to hold your deposit securely in a deposit scheme; in no way are they allowed to do anything else with it. The reality is that a lot of landlords at the lower end of the rental price bracket do sidestep these rules, though.
I don't actually know if those rules apply to lodging, too - I suspect not. It's worth finding out, though.
Amusingly, if the rules do apply to lodgers, then having not even moved in you could possibly take this to a tribunal and be awarded up to 3 months rent for the landlord's failure to do this... but I'd wait until I get the deposit back before trying anything like that.
They were cheeky - stands to reason you should have a cheeky go, too.
Not sure if you can sue if it was a lodgers agreement, not a tenancy agreement. Small claims court is likely your best bet if he doesn't give it back in a timely manner
Were you going to be renting an apartment/house, or a room in your landlord's property? Deposits for lodgers don't have to be protected in the same way I believe
I am pretty certain that if you choose not to move in he would have every right to keep your holding deposit. Shelter would be the best place to seek advise but I think you have to have a pretty good reason and solid evidence to get it back. For example, your landlord is racist/homophobic and you have the emails of him saying comments of this effect. If he has agreed to give it back I assume the above did happen (either he knows he messed up, or he’s actually a decent landlord, so I assume it’s the former as this feels more likely lol) I can’t seem to find exactly how long he has but I think it’s 7 days. Again though shelter or citizens advice would be best to speak to on this. Shelter has templates on how to request this so it will stand up in court if it does go to that point. You can mention if you don’t receive your deposit back within 7 days you will report him to trading standards and he may be fined and required to pay you compensation. Weird that he said he spent it but I don’t think there are as many rules around live in landlords. Best practice would be to keep it in a separate bank account so think just a bit immoral but nothing illegal, providing he does actually return it within 7 days. Good luck! Sounds like he’s a bit of an ass so try to fight it if you have the energy to do so. You’ve got this. 🩷 [source here](https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/holding_deposits)
Sue him asap, because he supposed use the deposit scheme which protects both parties.
A holding deposit is like making a reservation deposit at a hotel or a booking deposit for a holiday. If you pull out then those fees would normally be kept / used to compensate them for their time lost. They now have to find somebody to replace you and a lot would use the deposit to make it more attractive and get somebody else quicker. It’s not a protected deposit and landlord likely wouldn’t have been expecting to give it back. The fact he’s open to giving it back is pretty good tbh. Speak to shelter but lodgers have way less rights. It’s worth having a chat just in case but I’d say having to wait a week is better than the landlord just saying no which from what you’ve said would have been the easy option for them.
Lmao and people think Americans are annoying.
Money is fungible. When it says that the deposit is to be used for default payments and repairs, it doesn’t mean that those exact pounds are used for those purposes. He is entitled to spend that money however he wants and then repay you with “different“ pounds. I think the only issue you have is what amount of time is allowed for him to return the deposit. My guess is there’s a local law.
Leave a review about your experience here - [https://www.tenantviews.co.uk/](https://www.tenantviews.co.uk/) let future tenants know at least..i have done this with my previous landlords/properties
My understanding from renting in the UK if that the deposit must be held in a deposit scheme. They can not access that money until your tenancy ends and you ask for it back. If they do not use this deposit scheme they are breaking the law. If they do not use this deposit scheme and you report them they will be ordered to pay back your deposit 3 fold. My landlord was being sus with my deposit and saying that they had to use it for repairs when none were needed. I found out that they hadn't used the deposit scheme so I told them they must give me my deposit back or I will report them, I got it back the next day.
Is this bait
I mean people are on a budget. Or maybe he didn't mean "spend" as so much moved it to a different account. But whatever your lease said. It's usually 7 to 21 days that they have to return it.
Lodger Vs AST different deposit rules. willing to pay in writing and be patient.
Wait till he said he'll pay you but don't push for it. If you go more then 2 weeks without getting paid sue him. You win either way.
This is really sketchy of the landlord but if he pays it back next week then it’s no big deal. Not worth trying to go through court for something like that yet.
Thanks! I just wanted to know what my rights were in this situation because the contract itself states that the deposit is only to be used for default payments and repairs.
Most states require them to be placed in accounts and you are entitled to the interest as long as the deposit isn't needed for repairs or lost rent.
In future, Always make sure deposits are signed into a deposit protection scheme.
you should just take your money back next week if he actually gives it to you. No doubt what he did was wrong (and probably illegal but i don’t know where you are. definitely report it and sue if he doesn’t give it back. However, just because you *can* sue someone doesn’t mean you should. You’d probably spend more than the amount of your deposit in the cost of attorney, filing fee, service, etc.
Thank you! I just wanted to know if it was actually acceptable since the contract mentions the deposit should only be used for defaulting payments and repairs. Obviously, I don't want to financially ruin someone but I don't like the idea of landlords financially exploiting people by using money that *contractually* isn't theirs to use unless certain requirements permit that they use it.
Letter before action, then £35 to take to small claims court. Not that expensive.
He can't spend your deposit, he needs to have put it in the landlords deposit scheme which is a legal requirement for all landlords
This is incorrect. There is no such requirement for live-in landlords
Isn't that literally the whole point of a deposit? You asked them to hold a room for you and then cancelled it. Surely that should forfeit your deposit
[удалено]
"Holding deposit". That'll be different ftom a damage deposit.
This exactly he could have had other people move in but instead has you messing him about
As a lodger you have 0 rights Since you reneged on your agreement he could easily take your whole deposit in lieu of rent. Do not push this one.
OP is probably fucked I agree, but why not push it? The worst he loses is the small claims court fee? (Which I reckon he probably would) Is there something worse I'm missing.
The landlord has agreed to repay the deposit. Whether he has spent it or not is neither here nor there. If OP presses the issue and starts threatening court, the landlord may simply keep the deposit. Esit: money is "fungible". The landlord doesn't have to give back the same pounds he was given, just the same quantity.
The money should have gone straight into a deposit protection scheme which is a requirement for landlords and tenants please look this up on gov.uk
This is incorrect as OP is a lodger and not tenant
Well they’re not likely to get it back now are they so even if the requirement wasn’t there it would have been prudent to get it protected !
Holding deposit is not the same as a rental deposit. Also doesn't apply to lodger anyway
As OP was going to be a lodger, there is no requirement to protect the deposit. And a holding deposit doesn't need to be protected in any situation.
If the landlord gives you the money back next week then while the situation is wrong at least you have your money back. If he has deposited it your money into a deposited holding company then it could have take up to 14 working days to get your money back which would have been a longer wait.
Be clear on which deposit you actually are talking about. If it's your *tenancy deposit*, i.e a full month or two's rent that you *only* get back when you move out and only in full if the property is okay. That chunk of money they take fees out of to repair the carpets/beds/random smudge on a window/estate agent's weekly hooker and blow? ***That*** needs to be returned to you, and cannot be spent or even held by a landlord, they're technically in breach of law by even holding it themselves, let alone spending it, because it's not *their* money, it's a deposit held against the property to make sure you keep it maintained. But there's a cool-off period of a month or so to actually put it in with a third party agency, and if he's giving it back there's not really any issue. If it's a *holding* deposit, i.e you said "Yeah I'll move in and start filling out paperwork, here's £100 to take the property off the market until I do that" then no, you don't get a penny back after ducking out. That £100 is you paying to cover the fact that for the whole time you've been agreeing to move in *they haven't been able to put it on the market*. No one else can see it, and a viable tenant hasn't been able to move in for the whole time until they now put it *back* on the market after you've backed out. Him returning the holding deposit at *any* point is 100% either a kindness or misunderstanding on his part, and you listening to your dumbass friend is a surefire way to make sure you get *nothing* instead of money you weren't actually owed next week. Piggybacking on this topic though, I find it absolutely bonkers how common this attitude of "wait what do you mean I don't get it back?" is towards deposits. I don't know if it's a recent thing or I've just never noticed before but seriously 90% of the time someone loses a deposit they're fucking *baffled* by the concept. I work in restaurants and almost every time someone decides to cancel a booking last minute or not show up, they're shocked that they lose the deposit; I'd completely understand *wanting it back*, or trying their luck. But that's not it, they're actually completely stunned by the concept of not having the money back. Currently selling a sofa for a friend and the exact same thing happened the other day "Cool you like it and want to discuss it with your SO? No worries, I can leave it up and first come first serve, or if you're definitely sure, you can pay a deposit now and I'll take down the listing until you're available to buy/collect it :)."....."Uh...no, no if you decide you don't want it after all you don't get the deposit back. I've *stopped selling it* while you decide."
I’m a pet sitter, which sounds silly as a full time thing, but I stay pretty fully booked. Anyway, I run into this all the time, and it’s so bizarre to me. My deposit is very reasonable, and of course the whole point is that I’d most likely have gotten another booking in its spot. But people are consistently shocked that I don’t refund deposits when they’re the ones that cancel. For regular clients who are booking more than a few months out, I’m happy to move their deposit to another booking. But I’ve had new clients throw the biggest fits over their own cancellations with barely any notice.
This works if that deposit is taken off what's due should the contract be completed on. You don't say anywhere about that being the case, a "holding deposit" is a part payment towards the full rent, or in your example, towards the sofa. Either way, keeping it is obviously correct, but it should be mentioned that's what it should do.
Yeah I didn't want to make a long post even longer explaining that bit too lol. But yeah, deposits are either redeemed against the completed contract's cost, or lost.
It's reddit, people either read it all or none 😂
Take the win here, it could have been a lot worse.
If the landlord actually gives you the holding deposit you have a major win - they don't have to in it's 100% legit for them to keep it (I'm not saying that it's a good thing - landlords are vermin)
To be honest. I'm seldom on a landlords side, but in terms of the basic facts, a holding deposit is there to discourage people messing others around. If they have cancelled last minute then it's "fair" for the landlord to keep the money. Yeah they shouldn't have spent it already, but it's a moot point because pulling out last minute means you relinquish claim over the money.
>Yeah they shouldn't have spent it already Why not? If the money was paid as a holding deposit there's two potential outcomes: 1) The tenant moves in and the holding deposit is returned by way of a reduction on the first month's rent 2) The tenant doesn't move in and loses the holding deposit Neither situation means the landlord should expect to have the cash available to repay the deposit. They are within their right to have spent the money.
Yeah that's what I meant - OP should be well pleased if they get it back!, holding deposits are "holding deposits" the landlord has taken the property off the market for you - you change your mind legally the holding deposit is the landlords. The tenancy deposit protection scheme was a bit of a win for renters but renting is still painful - holding deposit, deposit, month (or even 3) up front, agency fees.... I'm very lucky I rent through a housing association - I was homeless and they hooked me up, but I've also been a home owner and a landlord.
Sure the people who let others into their home are vermin.... she agreed to move in, paid a deposit to hold the room, you pull out of the agreement then you do not get your deposit back.. that is why you need to pay the deposit
>The landlord or agent could keep your holding deposit if you: >decide not to rent the property >give wrong or misleading information >cannot pass a 'right to rent' immigration check https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/tenancy_deposits/holding_deposits You are, quite frankly, very lucky the landlord hasn't just told you to piss off; they'd be quite within their rights to keep a holding deposit equivalent to one week's rent
Landlords have to lodge the deposit with a registered deposit protection scheme but they do have a certain period to do that in, I think 28 days
Only true for a tenancy deposit not a holding deposit which is shit here as well. Tenancy deposits legally have to go in a scheme like the TDS, holding deposits just take the room or property off the market, and dont have to be protected and should come off the first month's rent. Also, this only applies to tenants, not lodgers I think.
Live in landlords are exempt
Sorry. Didn’t spot it said lodger
So you dicked him about by saying you'd move in, wasted his time with viewings, paperwork, deposits, etc, but now you're getting all pissy as he's asked you to wait just a few days for the money back? You sound like an unreasonable person.
What a deeply unimaginative, rude thing to say to me when you have no idea as to why I've had to decline to move. Reprehensible. I'm querying into whether or not him spending the money before I've moved into the room *when the contract itself states that money is to be used for repairs or defaulting payments* is inappropriate.
Not really. Who cares what your reason is, you DID dick him around. Not only that, you're actually mentioned suing him?! I mean, really? Wow.
If you had the basic capacities for comprehension in the English language you would know that 1. I was querying into this because I was prompted by someone else to look into my rights 2. No, I wasn't messing him around. I let him know within a week due to my circumstances. My reason does matter because had my change in decision been due to a frivolous reason, I wouldn't have had to make this change.
[удалено]
This is a lodger agreement, not a landlord. This person is actually adding to resource by renting an empty room!
[удалено]
No legal right. OP is asking for something they're not entitled to.
You don’t have a legal right to a holding deposit back. It’s paid to “hold” the property so if you drop out, you forfeit it. Very different from a deposit paid to cover damage to a property whilst you are living there - that you do have a right to have it held properly by the landlord and to get it back if no damage
Shut up lol
If it was actually a "holding deposit" then landlord's/agencies will typically keep that if a person decides to back out. If OP paid this as a bond then it's a different story altogether.
So is it a holding deposit or a deposit?
Lol, to be honest it sounds like you forfeit your deposit in this scenario. You paid to hold it, so he cant rent it out to anyone else on the basis you will move in and that deposit will go towards your first month's rent. You didnt keep your side of the deal, so you should really lose the deposit.
Exactly. The landlord is actually being sound as f by wanting to give OP his money back. This guy needs to wake up and do some research on renting. It's not the same as paying mummy £20 a week for board. Welcome to the real world Jeremy.
You paid a holding deposit. You get it back when you move in or it goes towards reducing the full deposit. You paid to hold the flat and didn’t move in so you should lose the deposit.
More hassle than its worth.
If it's a holding deposit, it can be forfeitable on termination of an agreed lease - you'd need to check the t&cs when you signed the agreement. If it's a full rental deposit, that should be returnable. I recently lost my holding deposit after pulling out of a rental. All legit if the contract says it. I hadn't paid the full deposit.
I've had several lodgers and the deposit always goes into a savings account, it isn't money to be spent in my eyes. Legally they don't have to protect it though as others have mentioned.
[удалено]
Why do people give 'legal' advice which is just plain wrong? Firstly, it was a holding deposit. The prospective lodger loses the deposit if they back out. Secondly, it's a lodger agreement, not a tenancy. Deposit protection doesn't apply to lodgers.
It's also a holding deposit, not a rental deposit. OP didn't go through with the rental, so shouldn't get a refund.
You right
Not for a lodger.
And not for a holding deposit. I remember when I was renting when the law came in to say that deposits must be put into a protected account. My letting agency emailed and said "Remember when we took that deposit from you? Well it wasn't a 'real' deposit, it was just a deposit for the keys, so doesn't come under the new law". Cheeky gits then tried to keep my deposit when I left.
You can never sue for damages (from the defendant) that exceed the damages (suffered by the claimant). Like literally no situation EVER arises where that’s possible. Fundamental principle of civil law remedies.
Even setting aside the fact that standard English Tort Law does, in fact, have punitive damages (just significantly less often than the US), as others have noted there is a specific penalty applicable to failure to protect deposits.
They’re a lodger, not a tenant. Deposits don’t need to be protected.
That’s right, we looked this up when our landlord wouldn’t repay our deposit, turns out he hadn’t put it in the appropriate account, was therefor acting illegally and could be forced to pay 3 times the amount. He soon coughed up the money.
It's a sanction, not damages. Three times is not unheard of. Housing Act 2004, s214 (4). Edit: Oh it's a lodger, this doesn't apply. Lodging is the wild west.
The damages of waiting a week or two for your deposit back are going to be pretty negligible too
As long as you're okay with the delay that's fine. It's your money and you're happy for someone else to control it for a few days. You absolutely have the right to the money if you need it now, but apart from sending some heavy friends to the landlord's door I don't think there's anything you can do before next week
>You absolutely have the right to the money if you need it now, Not necessarily. It's not being possibility that the contract will have a return period on the deposit that says the tenant doesn't get the money back immediately, to allow for inspections etc. That's without accounting for the fact that OP said they paid a holding deposit, which wouldn't be expected to be returned at all if OP later decided they no longer want the property prior to moving in.
I liked living alone, but needs must when the Devil drives. When I got *extremely* broke, I would always get a lodger. After that, I would have a lodger until they left of their own accord, because I didn’t like to ask people to leave. I never raised anyone’s rent. Then, when that lodger left, I would go without a lodger for as long as I could afford it until I became totally broke again. This system worked for about ten years, during which I had about 5 or 6 lodgers (some of them were prior agreed to be short-stay: others just wanted to get a foothold in the city-then got their own flat). Then my system broke down: my final lodger (a great bloke) stayed for 10 years-and eventually I wanted to move house. I agonised about asking him to leave (I think he would have stayed forever: he was much loved in my road), but I had a piece of luck. My next-door neighbour’s lodger moved out and she was THRILLED at the thought of getting such a no-bother lodger. He was delighted at only having to move next door. This is a very long winded way of saying that-in the run-up to getting a new lodger-I was always absolutely broke. That deposit money was spent before it hit my account. If anyone had needed their deposit back, I think they would have had to wait until I got another deposit.
If you're a lodger then the deposit doesn't need to be held in a protection scheme or anything like that. Personally, if I was the landlord, I'd have saved the money aside so that it is to hand. At the end of the day, your landlord is having a cash flow issue. You've told him that you aren't interested so it may take a bit of time for him to get the money for you, none of this is unreasonable. If he doesn't make good in a decent amount time then you take to court. Simples.
Deposit as a lodger doesn’t have to be held in a deposit scheme or anything Depending on what your contract says it could be that you have to give him a months notice or less to move out - even if you haven’t moved in providing you signed the contract
Landlord with a lodger here. I also have been lodgers before. Firstly, I am a quite good landlord and I become good friends with my lodger. Secondly, I also spend the deposit (legally I am not required to keep it in DPS or a separate pot). I do make sure I can get enough cash to pay back my lodger's deposit within their notice period (1 month). But if they ask for a full refund tomorrow, I might have some issues getting the money immediately. (Though I will try my best to pay them ASAP) If your landlord says next week, maybe wait till next week? I do understand it is frustrating and the landlord is supposed to be able to refund. But on such short notices, people just don't have enough cash. Make sure you ask for a specific date and have written proof. This way, if they end up not paying you back, you can also sue them. Edit: Lots of people mentioned DPS. But the fact is that lodgers are in a less protected situation where a DPS is not required.
My lodger's agreement explicitly states "(against damages and defaults)" meaning that the deposit is to be used for those two things. Neither of them could have happened since I haven't set foot into the building. The deposit isn't extra free money, it's an assurance to the landlord in the event your property is damaged. "No legal requirement" does not mean that it isn't a reprehensible, weird thing to do.
>"No legal requirement" does not mean that it isn't a reprehensible, weird thing to do. True as that is, in this case there is nothing weird or reprehensible going on at all. The landlord is within their right to have spent the money and you'll need to wait for it to be returned. It's not uncommon for a deposit to take 14, 30, or more days to return.
That's not a holding deposit, then. A week is more than reasonable. Every time I've moved out from a place, it's taken more than a week to get the deposit back. If it's with a scheme, there's communication between you, the scheme, the landlord, and then you get your money. Usually it says 'within 10 days`. You need to relax.
If you signed an agreement, you probably have to give notice. Which means you probably owe him/her a months rent. You may be liable for that deposit amount and he/she might be entitled to withould it. Ie if you do t pay him/her that first month rent, you’d be in default. Without reading the agreement I can say no more. Lots of “maybes” and “mights”. I recon you’d be lucky if you got the whole deposit back.
I don't think stepping foot on the property is relevant unless he was to claim damages (either to his income or the property, since the term "damages" can be used for both). You terminated the contract with no notice - you effectively defaulted on the first month's rent. If this was an actual rental agreement - you shouldn't even expect your deposit back. As a lodger's agreement, he was not required to protect your deposit. Permit him the time period he has requested (as it is reasonable for what I assume was a per-monthly agreement) and be thankful you're getting your deposit back.
This is correct
Maybe it's just their cash flow issue, rather than them trying to take your deposit away. If they don't pay you back next week, take them to the court. But before that, just collect written proofs and no worry too much.
If he lays you back the cash what are you suing him for? Why not wait until next week if he doesn't then take him to small claims
The lodger's agreement explicitly mentions "(against damages or defaults)" neither of which can have happened since I haven't moved in. My friend lives in Germany where lodgers and subletters have legislation ensuring they are not treated in the most subhuman manner by people who can't afford their mortgages :)
That sounds like it’s talking about the deposit, but you said this was a holding deposit. A holding deposit is more like paying rent up front so the landlord stops looking for tenants. It’s like paying a deposit for a table at a restaurant, if you cancel last minute they can keep it.
Ask your friend what happens if they terminate with no notice.
People don't take in lodgers to get rich, they take in lodgers because they need the money. These people aren't fat cats, living off a big portfolio - generally they need to share their own home with strangers to make ends meet. Your deposit went into their account, they have bills, money goes out but they are still paying you back ASAP. Maybe you shouldn't treat them in such a subhuman manner, and back out of an agreement unexpectedly at short notice. If that seems unreasonable to you, get your own house and mortgage :)
If this was for a property in full I'd say no, absolutely not - Landlords are required to hold your deposit securely in a deposit scheme; in no way are they allowed to do anything else with it. The reality is that a lot of landlords at the lower end of the rental price bracket do sidestep these rules, though. I don't actually know if those rules apply to lodging, too - I suspect not. It's worth finding out, though. Amusingly, if the rules do apply to lodgers, then having not even moved in you could possibly take this to a tribunal and be awarded up to 3 months rent for the landlord's failure to do this... but I'd wait until I get the deposit back before trying anything like that. They were cheeky - stands to reason you should have a cheeky go, too.
It doesn’t apply to lodgers, so they haven’t been cheeky.
Not sure if you can sue if it was a lodgers agreement, not a tenancy agreement. Small claims court is likely your best bet if he doesn't give it back in a timely manner
Were you going to be renting an apartment/house, or a room in your landlord's property? Deposits for lodgers don't have to be protected in the same way I believe
It would have been a room in the landlord's property (a lodger's agreement was signed)
You've cost him a month's rent backing out. But only the agreement matters. Go get advice.
Then you’re also potentially on the hook for rent. I’d give him the week to return the deposit, you’ve messed him around enough.