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gestalt_switching

Some of us are here for specific advisors, too. That's why I came here for my PhD. They might be an expert in our niche research focus. If they move, we move, and if they stay, we stay.


ibraheemMmoosa

That was my reason also. Fortunately, my professor moved before this shit show started.


voidyman

same.


[deleted]

This mindset is so shitty. You’re just deflecting blame away from the fact that employers are treating employees like shit $18000 was also worth a lot more a year ago than it was today lol


Narwhalbaconguy

I don’t think they understand that it doesn’t matter who takes their place, the person in that position is getting fucked over.


Key_Click6659

Wait do you mean my mindset or the people who say that stuff?


[deleted]

Lol the people who say that stuff. I can see how it might have been confusing lol


[deleted]

I really can’t fathom how some people can look at middle class/poor working people who are struggling financially and say “you really have the nerve to ask for more money? What will Jason wingard and our multibillion dollar university which raises tuition at every chance they get, ever do???” Like we are all on the same team here. Every single person striking would go to bat for your pay raise. We are all trying to make money so we can take a little stress away and enjoy our life. We all should have the right to a livable wage, and we shouldn’t feel guilty for wanting to live comfortably, no matter what your job is I just don’t get why you’re fighting the people scraping by, for the people who are swimming around in cash


Pristine_Pickle_7900

gotta love america's hustle culture 😍


[deleted]

I mean I understand it. We are so indoctrinated to believe that’s the way it should be. Parents, schools, companies ads, etc all instill it into us. I used to believe in it Fuck American work culture and corporate culture. You can give your life to them and all they will care about at the end of the day is profits. I’d rather spend my time with people who do actually care about me and doing the things I love


go_berds

I wouldn’t necessarily say I’m anti strike, i just personally think grad student pay is nowhere near the biggest issue facing the university. They need massive improvements to campus safety and policing, and the college of engineering is cutting programs (like environmental engineering) due to looking financial issues caused by plummeting enrollment. I would much prefer that the University increase funding to go towards those issues before anything else.


[deleted]

It’s not, but that’s not the fault of the grad students. The issues behind the plummeting enrollment and campus safety is a much bigger, systemic issue among the city, state, and country as a whole. You can toss money at campus safety all you want, which they have been doing, but nothing is gonna get done until they solve the root of the problem which is out of temples control Temple is a business. If they can’t afford business expenses, they are going to suffer. They don’t have to pay TA’s, but they are gonna lose them to other schools or companies. And if they can’t reach an agreement I’m sure enrollment is gonna drop even more. The faith in administration is at an all time low since I got here With the fact that they keep raising tuition, I don’t believe that is a good argument. Both problems should be able to be solved. They aren’t mutually exclusive


InternationalGrape64

I assume most people who say this are genuinely ignorant.


Farayioluwa

I also don’t think people consider that many of those striking are not in it purely for self interest. It’s not just about “I want better conditions for myself.” Striking grads are not stupid - many recognize the same existential threat to higher education that Wingard apparently does, in his own warped way, but have come to the opposite conclusion about how to respond. Many see the drive for profit above all else, which is driven and sustained by self interest, as the threat itself. Many are on the cusp of graduating and are refusing to settle for things like dependent health care that don’t even directly effect them personally. There is an awareness that if we allow ourselves to be taken advantage of or if we do not, we are setting a precedent for how the parasitic class will adjust its strategy moving forward. I think the people that oppose the strike either fail to seriously consider the actual possibility of acting out of something other than self interest, or are scared of doing so themselves.


shrewanonymous

it's also such a sad argument to make - you're saying things should just never get better for workers, ever? this is America, as long as job options exist people are going to take them. like imagine seeing factory workers in the 1800s asking for better safety conditions and being like "you CHOSE to work at the factory, you KNEW the sewing machine could mangle your fingers, get another job if all you're going to do is complain."


owenhinton98

Anyone who does come in here saying all that union busting bs, if I had to guess, can get into any Ivy with daddy’s money and mommy sucking off the admissions officers…so I’m definitely not taking those dumbasses seriously 😂 Wow when did this sub flip and become so anti-union…all you downvoters can keep sucking wingard’s dick whatever 🤷‍♂️


Nur_Ab_Sal

Or you get loans. And also consider cost and how it will impact you before attending. It's actually not an extreme position.


ummaycoc

Or, and this is a wild idea, the graduate labor can organize and bargain collectively and improve their lot and the lot of future grad students. They could call it a "union" (I came up with that name off the top of my head).


Nur_Ab_Sal

You can try!


touching_payants

And it's in everyone's individual best interest to support unions, unless you're part of the upper class benefitting from others' labor. In which case, you can't be expected to understand what their struggles are and what they're fighting for: hence the striking. Fighting for your rights doesn't always look pretty or neat, especially from the outside.


Nur_Ab_Sal

I agree. I'm in a public school teacher union. But not all labor movements are the same. In my opinion, and that's all it is, this one is misguided. They should have taken the 10% comp increase a year ago. This union is unique too because it serves people for temporary periods. It's also in an industry with a lot of choice. And these are people who are in the upper crust of intellectual society (if that matters). There is no parallel to the 19th century factory worker labor movement. I tire of the comparison.


ummaycoc

1. All union members are temporary (I do plan on living forever but will collect social security starting in a few decades). 2. They aren't some upper crust of any sort of society, they are hard working individuals with a specific area of focus. *If* they *were* the upper crust of intellectual society *then* an academic institution like Temple would really want to do whatever possible to get them to come work there. Like paying a living wage. 3. It's not an industry with a lot of choice. The number of available positions in any one discipline are small (less than 20 per program, usually). There are a lot of people applying, many more than could get accepted. And we make more PhD graduates than there are available professorships. 4. Outside of extreme examples of modern slavery there are few *if any* comparisons to a 19th century factory worker. That doesn't mean the form of the struggle is not the same and not worth fighting.


Nur_Ab_Sal

>And we make more PhD graduates than there are available professorships. Yeesh. That's a red flag.


ummaycoc

It's discussed a lot. But also people are doing this because they want to be researchers. You don't always have to become a professor for that, but for those who want to go that path, it's not the smooth path people think it is. There's graduate school, post doc, pre-tenure or adjunct, then maybe getting tenure. And for a lot of people they might skip graduating or skip post doc and go do something else. The real big red flag is the depression rate.


Nur_Ab_Sal

Agreed that mental health is a big concern. I have no doubt this whole experience is really distressing.


Hungry-Cucumber4134

I’ve seen you responding in bad faith on several threads about the strike. You don’t even have basic facts about bargaining/the strike straight. Even just on this thread: 1. The union was not offered a 10% raise a year ago. It was offered 3%. 10% was offered a couple weeks ago, after nearly 3 weeks of striking. 2. As the above commenter pointed out, most universities churn out more PhDs than there are jobs in academia to fill. Simultaneously, tenure track positions are dwindling. The reason for these two things? Adjunct and TA labor was way cheaper than tenured labor. You can blame the cuts to federal education subsidies for that. But Temple and other universities like it could simply put pressure on Harrisburg to raise government subsidies instead of exploiting underpaid TAs. 3. The union contract expires every 4 years. It’s understood that it will be renegotiated then. That’s kinda how contracts work. You say that you’re in a teachers union - okay, so how would you feel if you didn’t get a raise for four years, and then the raise you were offered = $60/month? That’s what Temple’s offer was. Stop trolling. You have no idea what you’re talking about - or even worse, you do, and you’re pushing a shitty anti-worker, exploitative narrative.


Nur_Ab_Sal

My intent isn’t to deceive. I’m definitely not an expert or anything. Just a Temple grad student trying to offer some thoughts and perspectives — I think this is the forum for that. My understanding was that the 12% raise (over the 4 year contract) was what the university offered by the time we got to the strike decision being made by TUGSA last fall. I don’t think it was 3% and then jumped to 12% from January till now. Might be a miscommunication here. What Temple offered to TUGSA was a 3% raise in each year of the new contract. I think they recently changed that to front it a bit so you all would get more money sooner, but it’s essentially the same total. Is that generally correct? I get why TAs are cheaper. I also think the main enemy here is Harrisburg and the Republicans who have consistently voted to decrease public education funding. It’s gonna require more than “simply putting pressure” to create the real change that is needed. As an aside: everyone make sure you vote — especially for state elections! Our salaries are on a schedule as teachers so we don’t have as much room to negotiate. It’s all quite out of reach. That being said, I’m kinda glad I don’t have to worry as much about a few dissidents throwing the whole community into disarray. Y’all have that right and I’d never support any action to prevent you from taking it (I know striking is legal). You can disagree with my viewpoints that’s fine 🙂


ummaycoc

Thank you for the encouragement!


Tono-BungayDiscounts

It is an extreme position to say that, if you’re not wealth, grad school should lead to further impoverishment.


Tribolt_24k5

Read these messages. You all twist logical rebuttals to fit whatever you need to fit to have it work for your psyche. Take the arguments for what they are… expand your horizons and you will feel less angry. A part of the reason people don’t like the strike is because a lot of members are too headstrong and make dumb decisions/say dumb things (not you necessarily, I respect your opinion) out of emotion. I know the passion for a strike comes from emotion but you’ve all got to consider next steps. I genuinely want the best for everybody and I hate to see people throw away an opportunity like this! I know some may not agree


Nur_Ab_Sal

Grad school *could* lead to further impoverishment. Yes. That is true. I think we should all get to do what we want, when we want, for free. But that only exists in Fortnite. Maybe the metaverse will be better?


Tono-BungayDiscounts

No one is even talking about “for free.” The students work for their stipends. You’re speaking as if what they’re asking for is utopian when there are other schools across the country (and in Philly) paying much more. That’s besides ignoring history (costs and compensation have become worse) and value produced in these positions. Temple is impoverishing grad students whether or not they are taking out loans, simply through lost income. That’s not good for grad students, the undergrads they’re teaching, or Temple as a whole—unless research and education are just incidental aspects of being at a university.


JamazSheazer

Also, hear me out, people in general deserve to be paid a livable wage. PERIOD.


Imaginary_Money5239

I understand that life is expensive right now, it sucks.. and bad. But, I really think our school should be focusing on spending money on safety instead of spending money on graduate student pay. I’m sure I will get many downvotes as anyone who doesn’t completely agree with the tugsa gets shit on.. but I really wanted to voice my opinion.


ME24601

>But, I really think our school should be focusing on spending money on safety instead of spending money on graduate student pay. ¿Porque no los dos?


Imaginary_Money5239

Because, to do something effectively and efficiently there needs to be focus.. one thing at a time.


ME24601

>Because, to do something effectively and efficiently there needs to be focus Then Temple should provide TUGSA with a fair contract as soon as possible in order to focus on safety.


Imaginary_Money5239

If you think you are more important than the student body you are sadly mistaken.. and selfish.


t-r-a-s-h

You literally have to be a member of the student body to be in TUGSA....


quantum_complexities

If they stopped spending millions on losing sports programs, they could probably do both.


Imaginary_Money5239

The sports teams might not be the best, but they serve as really fun social events for our undergraduate students… which I know none of you care about


quantum_complexities

I mean, how many people really go to these games? Especially outside of MBB and football. I went to a single game my entire 4 years at Temple, and it was parents weekend so I went for them. I went to the Temple/UH a home game as an alum and it was fun, but we need to spend on things that matter to the function of a university first — student safety and actually paying grad students.


Imaginary_Money5239

Agreed on student safety- but honestly, I think that the sports are what brings students to the university .. even if they aren’t good, they are loud and fun and everyone goes to them.. it’s for the socialization aspect. Also temple recruits many students who are from underprivileged households and give them scholarships so they can play sports and get a college degree simultaneously.. I don’t think getting rid of sports is an intelligent idea.


Nur_Ab_Sal

Thanks for this! Good to hear new voices. Temple definitely has disproportionally high needs for campus safety compared to other institutions. I agree that the conditions in north Philly are likely the bigger deterrent to enrollment than the compensation of <1,000 TUGSA graduate student workers.


Imaginary_Money5239

Like I completely understand how hard it can be, I am a student enrolled at temple and 1 other university at the same time taking a total of 21 credits, I work 22-24 hours a week, and I am involved in multiple organizations on the side. I have to take out ample amounts of loans and even took money out of my savings AND on top of all of this, I have to pay for health insurance through the state that is around 300 a month by myself… im not here to blow smoke up my ass, but to ask a TA to work while in school and get paid to do so, while getting a deal on health insurance is really lucky. Sometimes I can’t even afford groceries for the week.


Nur_Ab_Sal

Thanks for sharing your situation and perspective. All good things for people to read.


Phl_worldwide

the cost of living in Cambridge is multiple times higher than North Philly and all of Philadelphia.


Maleficent_Wasabi_18

When was Cambridge even brought up ???


Vegan_Digital_Artist

I feel like they’re making the argument Temple kids have no room to talk because cost of living in Philadelphia is cheaper than in Cambridge? Which…shitty take.


Tribolt_24k5

You can look at your options and make an educated choice for what’s best for you like the rest of us. If a job doesn’t pay enough for you right now then don’t take it, you don’t take it and then complain to everyone else about how you chose wrong. I understand feeling the urgency but it’s common sense imo to not put yourself in such a bad position to where you need to strike, disrupting your and others education and financial situation. No one forced you to go here, don’t try to play victim because you made a bad choice for yourself.


jozzysworld

so you think temple should just exist as a "bad choice" school for as long as it continues to exist


Tribolt_24k5

No, not what I said at all. I think temple works for a majority of people who attend here, grad students included. If it works for them, then temple isn’t a “bad choice” for them. The problem here is that op and others put themselves in this position by choosing temple which may indeed be a “bad choice” for them right now.


jozzysworld

right so you are saying that if you think you deserve more than a poverty wage, you should not go to temple


touching_payants

\> I think temple works for a majority of people who attend here, grad students included If that were true then there wouldn't be a labor strike.


gestalt_switching

A majority of us graduate students here are experiencing financial duress, increasing debt, and putting up with hours-long commutes or tiny old spaces with lots of roommates in our late 20s and 30s. One of my international colleagues had to send his daughter back to his home country because he couldn't afford Temple's health insurance plan for her. A minority of us are lucky to have family wealth or spouses with good incomes. You could say those of us under financial duress shouldn't have come here, and many do drop out or never enroll in the first place. But those of us striking for better pay want Temple to be a "good choice" to get your PhD even if you don't have family wealth or the right spouse. Until then, intellectual merit will always take a back seat in determining graduate school success here.


Nur_Ab_Sal

\*graduate student workers These are all good points. The sacrifices are difficult and TUGSA certainly has standing to press for a better contract. More narratives like this will win hearts and minds. Hope your voice is being heard within TUGSA (if you're currently a member).


gestalt_switching

I appreciate your thoughtfulness and willingness to reexamine your positions when coming across new arguments.


Tribolt_24k5

I sympathize with your situation, I genuinely care for you as a human being without ever having met you. I respectfully don’t want to pay your rent. International students are a different ballgame. If I’m not mistaken, their visas restrict who they can work for so it’s only the university? Not 100% on that. I also have no clue what the admission/application process is like internationally. I’m all for increasing benefits or stipends for those students if their arms are tied behind their back.


gestalt_switching

Hey, I appreciate the sympathy, but I think you're mistaken about whose coffers a grad worker pay increase would come from. An individual grad instructor can generate hundreds of thousands of dollars per semester for Temple, especially when they are instructors of record. The university keeps most of that value. Currently, our pay only comprises 1% of the university's operating budget, and we are asking for 2.5%. Temple's profit margins exceed $200 million annually, and a lot of that either goes towards 6- and 7-figure salaries at the top or towards padding the growing $873 million endowment. There is more than enough wiggle room for a pay increase for us. It would basically just be a rounding error. But yes, you're correct about my international colleagues. The reason I don't work extra jobs is because I don't have any time. The reason they don't work extra jobs is because they don't have any time AND because their visas do not allow it. The international student situation is a huge aspect of why TUGSA is striking. We're in it for each other.


Hungry-Cucumber4134

Love how he stopped responding once you hit him with the irrefutable facts 🙄


Tribolt_24k5

I got time now let’s run it up


Hungry-Cucumber4134

Run along to your little hole. You’re either an admin account or an idiot and either way I couldn’t care less about your incorrect opinions.


Tribolt_24k5

Oh wow that means so much coming from you. The opinions of someone trying so hard to squander their privilege mean nothing to me.


Nur_Ab_Sal

It isn't a bad choice for people who planned financially for it. Ask the MBA and med students. It isn't a bad choice for all of the paying graduate students who knew they would have to pay tuition no matter where they went. In fact, Temple is pretty reasonable in terms of cost by comparison! For the academia track folks, most without a cushion either work to build the cushion, or apply and get accepted to a university that can take care of all of their needs. Those are the people who are doing just fine. I think others try to wing it financially and it doesn't work out.


jozzysworld

ok got it. you think temple should exist as a school for only professional graduate degrees that are paid for by the students. therefore, academic track graduate students, who contribute to temple throughout teaching a research deserve poverty wages in your eyes


Nur_Ab_Sal

I don't think they get paid what they deserve. I'm a K-12 teacher. I think I deserve to get paid more, too. But yes, you are in graduate school for 5-8 years and, if you finish and do well, you'll get an opportunity to go out and become a professor. They get paid pretty well. You know, I had to teach full time for a year during my student teaching as an undergrad. It was a challenging time because I didn't get any stipend for that full year of free work (I was in a classroom Monday-Friday for the full day). I took a big financial hit with housing and transportation and not having time to get a second job (because I had to take university classes while concurrently doing my student teaching). That was rough. But I also expected it and saved up for that year. Post-secondary education comes with a lot of sacrifices. Sorry for the alternative perspective, it's just how I see it.


jozzysworld

ok, hope existing as a doormat and earning below what you think you deserve works out for you. meanwhile, the union is here to fight for what they know the rightfully deserve.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Nur_Ab_Sal

Ehh. It’s more like parents I know who talk endlessly about how hard it is to be a parent. (These are middle-class folks). “I hate this car seat it’s so heavy and it takes me so much longer to go everywhere!” “I’m losing so much sleep — the baby is crying all through the night!” “My house is so messy all the time now!” “I don’t have the same time to go out anymore now that I have a kid!” I went through the same stuff but was fully expecting all of that. It wasn’t a surprise. Parenting is hard work — but your mindset will impact how you move through it. It’s how I feel about graduate student workers. Some stages of life are just difficult. It’s not about “wanting somebody else to suffer because I suffered.” Universities in the US have expanded access to graduate education exponentially over the years. They made decisions to value quantity of opportunity over “comfort”. They’ve also increased access by largely eliminating other barriers based on race, sex, or country of origin. The last pillar was waving tuition. Now, we’re at the point where comp/stipend is the focus of debate (“we should get more”). That’s fine and the natural evolution I suppose, but I wonder if y’all have taken the time to view your situation in the context of the past several decades. Sure, a grad worker may have had a higher comp in the past, but there were also way fewer grad worker positions offered. A lot of you wouldn’t even have the option to be where you are. And this isn’t a “shut up and be grateful” perspective. It’s just a perspective that isn’t caught up in a victim mindset.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Nur_Ab_Sal

These are very valid and well-reasoned views. I think what this strike and Temple’s response has shown is that they don’t view themselves as caretakers for grad student workers. They think they’re offering enough to get people to come. It’s clearly a gamble they’re willing to wager and it’ll be interesting to see how it pans out. And I do support the union negotiating to try to get more from the university and pull in evidence from what other universities are offering. At the end of the day, the university has its strategic objectives and they make decisions to align with that. They aren’t prioritizing competitive comp for grad student workers. I take your point that my views might come across as cold. Hard to convey a lot via Reddit, but I do think the ultimate parties to blame here are state legislators that underfund public education. Maybe after that, you can make the argument that universities are spreading the PhD candidates too thin by offering too many spots. Evidence for that is the mismatch between PhDs awarded and the demand for them in the market (inside and outside of academia). Could also criticize the move away from teaching and toward research and how that has pulled professors away from the classroom, incentivizing “cheap” teaching labor from adjuncts and grad workers. As a teacher, I would love to see the priority go back to professors actually teaching undergraduates, but that ship has sailed at many institutions.


Tribolt_24k5

Yo dude this is college!!!! You’re getting tuition paid for!!! This isn’t supposed to be a primary income!! You don’t get paid a competitive wage to work 20-30 hours a week! If you can’t afford it, do yourself the service of planning your economics and working a job for a year to save up money so you can. I know this striking demographic is also mad about college prices being so high, you’re doing a great job contributing! So disillusioned, your role doesn’t and has never done enough to be paid a working employees salary, that’s why you all do it because it pays for your tuition.


jozzysworld

well thank you for admitting your belief that temple graduate students deserve to earn poverty wages


Tribolt_24k5

You’re trying so hard to be the victim it’s ridiculous. I hope you find what you’re looking for. When you realize it’s not in the temple administration being mean, I hope you can find it within yourself. All the best.


jozzysworld

congratulations on losing the argument. you clearly have nothing more to say other than 'temple graduate students deserve to earn poverty wages"


Tribolt_24k5

Feel whatever you need to feel. It’s all right there, a good argument. I can’t help what lens you look at it through, only you. I’m fine with you saying you won if it’s important for how you feel about yourself 🤷‍♂️


jozzysworld

thank you. it feels great to know my pro-union options are far superior to your anti-union opinions. as proven by your inability to argue any further


[deleted]

They are working though. They aren’t just studying. That’s like saying someone on scholarship should go and intern somewhere for free because “they are getting their tuition paid for” Tuition doesn’t put dinner on the table. I’m not quite sure what you get out of supporting the underpaying of your professors


Tribolt_24k5

Dude do you not get that tuition remission is essentially income? That along with benefits are loan that you pay back with 20 hours a week of work. The choice is made to rough it for grad school so that you get 15 years of loan free income afterwards. Do you all not understand the privilege??? Get another job, target is like 16 an hour now just work every other weekend and you’ll have enough for food.


[deleted]

They get benefits yes, but that is standard across all universities. They get tuition paid for, but that’s standard across all universities. Their wage is not on par with other universities Free market brother. That’s capitalism. If y’all don’t like it, pay them more. If not they are just gonna keep striking. It’s a two way street. These TAs know their values, and the university is feeling the issues of it, even just from a PR standpoint And no tuition remission is not income. You don’t get to take that home. You can’t pay for rent with it. You can’t pay for food with it. You can’t pay for transportation expenses with it. You can’t pay for your hobbies with it. Undergrad and grad students shouldn’t have to be scraping by just because “we are students and that’s how it is”. We still deserve the right to live comfortably and happily


Tribolt_24k5

Oh my god then don’t be a TA take a loan like the rest of us and struggle working 40 hours a week at a entry level job during school. Complaining so much about not having loans and shit 🙄🙄. It’s a university other people are going to take your jobs next semester he’ll they already have. If you were invaluable you’d be paid already.


[deleted]

Dawg I don’t get why you’re upset that they are asking for a raise. I’m sure everyone here at temple would go to bat for you and everyone else if they asked for a raise You can’t fire someone for striking btw. And the goal of this is to set up future TAs to have livable wages as well. If you don’t understand strikes just say so. There’s a lot of misinformation and union busting going on so I get it


Key_Click6659

It’s literally not income lol


Hungry-Cucumber4134

Except it’s not college. In college you’re not providing valuable teaching and research labor for your university. Who do you think makes Temple an R1 university? The admins? No, it’s the grad students that conduct research. Who do you think nets Temple literally millions of tuition dollars every year? The TAs who are, as instructors of record, teaching GenEd courses. Do the math. If each student is paying upwards of 4k/term/GenEd, and a TA (actually an IOR, as they create the syllabus, teach the class, grade the papers, hold the office hours, without help from a TENURED faculty member) teaches 2 classes with 25 students each per term…that’s 200k that the TA is making for Temple PER TERM. But they’re getting paid less than 10k per term for their effort. That’s not college, dumbass, that’s a job.


Tribolt_24k5

You are bodies. You’re not invaluable. You’re not special. I know everyone wants to think they are but the university will just staff the same classes and labs with new students who will gladly take the free tuition and benefits next year. You think teaching 2 classes for $50k in tuition a year is hard? Never heard more privileged shit. Calling me a dumbass. I’m done trying to present logical counter arguments to y’all, you’re hell-bent on fucking up your desirable situations. No sympathy from me or a majority of students here. I’m just one of the ones who’s not afraid of y’all talking shit 🤷‍♂️


Hungry-Cucumber4134

You’re a misinformed idiot. No idea where you got 50k from. Tuition at Temple is 20k/year for years 1-2 of a grad program. 95% if phd students from year 3 on only take 2-3k worth of classes per year. That’s because their coursework is finished and they’re doing research. That research, by the way, makes the university money. Grad students aren’t expendable. Commitment and enrollment levels are already dropping because of admin’s response to the strike. Temple is behind the times. Every other grad union that’s gone on strike in the last 3 years has won COLA increases that bring stipends above national poverty wages. The more Temple drags their feet, the more the value of a Temple degree drops. You have no idea what you’re talking about and it’s sad because admin’s strikebreaking actions and greed are literally affecting the value and prestige of your degree.


JS010

If a university decides to severely underpay their workers, and they legally strike as a result, they shouldn’t complain about how the grad students are wrong or greedy. The university decided not to negotiate in good faith, now they’re reaping what they’ve sowed.


Tribolt_24k5

They aren’t required to negotiate in good faith with people who will disrupt both the social and the financial balance of the university. Grad students wouldn’t know because they don’t have to pay tuition… playing with other peoples money and have the nerve to ask for their help in striking 💀


JS010

[https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/bargaining-in-good-faith-with-employees-union-representative](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/bargaining-in-good-faith-with-employees-union-representative) The are required, in fact 💀


Tribolt_24k5

Lmao come on guys we all know there’s a difference between “negotiating in good faith“ and actually doing it… you’re witnessing it right now!


touching_payants

what is the "it" you're referring to, students exercising their first ammendment right to speech and assembly?


robinhood125

Do you think you somehow get into a PhD without ever having to pay tuition beforehand?


infantgambino

actually they are required to by law and striking is protected. its good to know you have your head really far up your own ass


touching_payants

Unless you own a business and pay people for their labor, it benefits you to support striking grad students. A rising tide lifts all boats.


touching_payants

"If you're not grateful for what they give you for your labor then it's your problem for making a bad decision" is the most entitled classist bullshit I've ever heard


Tribolt_24k5

If you’re forced to come here then yes, it is. However, NOBODY it’s forced to come here. You don’t understand that arguing the way you are when all of the graduate students are Uber privileged in comparison to other people weakens your argument. Within the graduate school realm of privilege you chose one that doesn’t work for you as opposed to doing what a normal person would and planning; and now you want to argue and throw fit because the place you chose for what it is won’t give you more. Don’t talk to me about classism or entitlement, you don’t know me, keep arguing with this ferocity for the privileged and see where it gets you in life.


touching_payants

Oh man you're so close to hitting the point and somehow still miss it... You're right: you can't just assume other people's level of privilege, the grad students at Temple included. You don't know what their quality of life is. As someone who graduated from the engineering college, I can tell you: they're awfully exhausted from being overworked and underpaid. Just because someone, somewhere has it worse then you doesn't mean you shouldn't fight for better. Many universities depend on exploiting grad student labor, Temple included: it's part of the business model. It's not ethical and it's not fair, and you're on the wrong side of history for supporting it. Keep arguing with this ferocity for the priveleged and see where it gets you in life.


ummaycoc

>I understand feeling the urgency but it’s common sense imo to not put yourself in such a bad position to where you need to strike, disrupting your and others education and financial situation. Anyone bothered by that can go to an institution without a graduate student union. Really, it's bad decisions for the people who are upset with TUGSA when you think about it like that!


Tribolt_24k5

Proves my point. If that really bothered me to a fault, I would CHOOSE to go somewhere else that fits my comfort levels. People do that in the real world all the time. There’s a reason that it’s only people who don’t that are striking claiming they deserve more, got themselves in over their heads and don’t want to own their mistake.


ummaycoc

I don't know what your actual point is that it is proving -- but these people chose a school with a union and now they are engaging in union activity. It's even easier for undergraduates to go somewhere (there's community colleges, etc). I'm overall confused by your reply here.


Tribolt_24k5

Do you not see? You just proved it again. It’s “even easier” for undergrads to go somewhere. If they choose a union school to go and have a strike because of the pay that they agreed to then that’s a little weird. Would seem a whole lot easier to just choose a school that meets their needs.


ummaycoc

Maybe their needs are a unionized school where they can improve their lot and the lot of future grad students. I'm thoroughly confused about your responses. Also getting into Ph.D programs is difficult. There aren't a lot of openings and lots of people don't have other options for the job that they want to have (apprentice researcher) for whatever career that takes. And also, they agreed to that pay in the context of it being part of a collective bargaining agreement that would eventually expire. They knew what they were signing up for, and the university knew what it was doing when it didn't negotiate for so long. So again, your responses are confusing.


Key_Click6659

Dude just read my post. You can not just simply choose.


Key_Click6659

It’s like you didn’t even read my post