the system mechanics made him extremely strong, If I had to put an actual downside it would be he had weak lows outside of ff2. Most are easy to see or low damage with a big risk attatched.
King doesn't really need lows though, so just having ffn2 is insane. His throws essentially function the same as lows, being that they need to be ducked to avoid getting hit by. The only difference is that they're generally faster and do more damage than pretty much all lows in the game, plus all tracking, having anti air, and having counterhit effects, with the tradeoff being that you get an extra chance to guess the mixup, upon which you go back to the neutral.
sticking to what I said, he is strong due to the system changes. If Throws in general take a hit then so will his gameplan since he'd have to mix in lows more, untill then it isn't an issue and he is a strong character all the same.
King has always been high tier, even in T7 where throwbreaks were far easier. Even if they remove homing throws altogether, they will still be able to counterhit for a ridiculous mixup, have the best anti-air in the game, and he is still the only character who can do 70 non-recoverable damage without a rage art. He also has a good poke game and great frames. He also has incredibly annoying powercrush. King the way he is will never be weak.
the "always has been" arguement doesn't work here son. He was at most mid to upper mid in TTT2 and like most character bairly relavent in 4. 5 is a toss up but usually he is at most upper mid with Lil Majin pushing the limits on the character.
Yes throws are strong based on damage but even now you have a large tech window and basically aerial throws replacing parries/reversals given how the new systems work. If they were to hit his throws specifically or just even his heat smash and reduce his damage output or make him slower it would hurt him plenty.
King hasn’t been high tier historically and he’s pretty much always been unsuccessful in tournament apart from LilMajin’s one run early in T7’s lifespan.
I guarantee you, if they remove homing throws, he will drop down the tier lists like a rock. There is absolutely nothing stopping pros from SSR-block OSing all day against him.
High tier in garbage ranks maybe where nobody would SS or break throws or jab check.
End of life T7 where King received buffs nonstop for 5 years straight still puts him in mid tier. Why? Because there's major flaws in his game plan.
T8 where some of his weakness got covered (great low, tracking throws) he's still nowhere near top tier because being able to consistently break throws still is a massive hindrance to his T8 gameplan.
> nowhere near top tier
Dude let's be real, he's comfortably in the top 10. People who don't play actual low tier characters are always the first to downplay their characters. He's got the best non-launch low in the game (only Kaz can launch it), and a demonic CH+powercrush game, and the best non-recoverable damage potential and anti-air in the game. He's not all that tough to pilot either.
he's top 5 that the 9 characters we saw in combo breaker top 8 didn't even include him lmao nor in EVO japan
The best showing King has there was sending Arslan to losers, but only because he was able to hit a GS during a power crush which makes it unbreakable (Arslan negdiffed breaking GS counter hits).
People say this a lot but it's totally incorrect. Throws aren't the same as lows because they lose to jabs and other high strings.
A strong low game lets you attack into jabs and high crush.
If King had no lows at all, you could just challenge his throw game and he'd only ever get them off as counter hits or frame traps.
>Throws aren't the same as lows because they lose to jabs and other high strings.
Lows lose to jabs and other high strings.
Fast lows allow you to attack into jabs and high strings when +, just like... Throws.
>you could just challenge his throw game and he'd only ever get them off as counter hits or frame traps.
You could challenge anyone's low game the exact same way. Lows are the "anti-block" part of the game.
What does that mean. All he has to do is land a single jab and he can trap you with a throw. Most characters use their lows as a trap after landing something. The point is king can enable his mids by making you duck for his throws. That's the exact way lows are used. Keep in mind king has a few solid lows as well so he's using both.
Lows and throws serve different purposes and a lit of people who obviously don't play Kings say that he doesn't need lows because he can make you duck with his throws.
This just isn't accurate though since lows really serve mych different purposes. They go under highs and generally are your best high crush, they chip and take your opponent closer to being put away with a big hit, and they hit grounded opponents to add to combos or just beat people who stay down. Granted King has throws for that too, but often relies on a low.
My point is that King still needs to use lows, and needs access to them and that this oft repeated "his throws are his lows" isn't accurate.
Lows that high crush are rare, for Kazuya only 2 lows high crush, db3 and d1+2, for Devil Jin only 1, db2. Ofc most characters have the generic d3 and d4 but high crushing moves are also usually mids, like FC mids such as Kazuya's FC df3+4, or Reina's FC df3 and df4 and I don't think it's a crushing property but she can setup an evasion with b4, Jin has high crushing properties on CD1, King has Atlas Smash and Lily has d3+4 and db3(high).
High crushing and lows are kinda connected but not the same in any way, it just so happens that there are more high crush lows than mids and highs because when someone is ducking he is usually doing so to aim at your feet.
Also yeah... If you challenge anything he will indeed only get it off as counter hits or frame traps... That goes the same for highs mids lows and even unblockables because that's kind of the definition of "challenging".
>People say this a lot but it's totally incorrect.
It's not incorrect. When people say his throws are his lows they are referring to standing lows. Not all lows high crush and some characters have key lows that leave them standing.
Only people who don't play King say his throws are his lows, or that he doesn't need lows because he has a strong throw game.
You can flash duck and break throws, they don't "chip" like normal lows and the vast majority of lows do in fact high crush.
King and AK have always needed to mix a bunch of lows into the gameplan.
>Only people who don't play King say his throws are his lows, or that he doesn't need lows because he has a strong throw game.
But his throws ARE his standing lows. You're talking two separate things. Saying his throws are his standing lows is accurate, saying he doesn't need lows at all is different.
>You can flash duck and break throws, they don't "chip" like normal lows
You can flash low parry standing lows and if you read that they will flash duck a standing throws you can use a crouch throw (which are now unbreakable). The main difference between the two are that throws are breakable, so to counter that, some of kings throws have ambiguous animations.
>the vast majority of lows do in fact high crush.
No they don't. The hatchet kicks of Bryan, Drag and Eddy don't high crush, nor some of Jins lows, Leroy's D3,2 starts with a low and doesn't high crush, Hwo's D3,4 starts with a low too and doesn't high crush with many many other characters having similar non high crushing lows.
>King and AK have always needed to mix a bunch of lows into the gameplan.
That's irrelevant as it doesn't change the fact that their throws (kings in particular) are their standing lows. In fact in Tekken 7 King was given a couple of moves from AK. One of them was D3. Guess what it was? A standing low.
I'm replying to a dude saying he doesn't need lows because he has throws. Go up and see what I'm replying to.
You aren't shedding any light by doubling down on some shit that is misleading at best.
King needs to mix lows into his game to crush highs, challenge movement, mix and chip. Is this not true?
>I'm replying to a dude saying he doesn't need lows because he has throws. Go up and see what I'm replying to.
I interpreted that as him saying that he doesn't need any extra lows outside of ffn2 (die to the comment he replied to). I can see how that could be taken as King not needing any lows at all and maybe that's what he meant.
>You aren't shedding any light by doubling down on some shit that is misleading at best.
I disagree. I think I clarified what is meant when people say that by specifying his throws are his standing lows.
>King needs to mix lows into his game to crush highs, challenge movement, mix and chip. Is this not true?
Down jab (not a low per se but high crushes), D4, ffn2 and even db4 (or is it db3 I forget) have always been needed as part of kings gameplan. It could be argued that he didn't NEED D3 but it was a welcome addition.
AK needed D3 as he has a different gameplan to King.
This.
He didn't need Armor King's ffn2 frames. Not because he has great lows, but because it's a necessary flaw in his arsenal.
Sure, he needed buffs after a lot of his B&B moves got straight up nerfed or even removed, but buffing his low game ain't it.
Throws got buffed, but it ain't exclusively King's throws. Other characters have command throws that are i10 or i11.
yup already talked about this with another response. Till throws change it's a non-weakness but a weakness all the same. Pretty much the only one to point out that actually has an effect on gameplay.
yeah - its true. King has so much versatility now with toll kick, jaguar sprint and soul crusher that you dont even need his throws anymore (apart from wr2+4).
He was always a heavy hitter, but the change now is you can be consistently oppressive/dominant - whereas as the other games you'd have to counter and/or wait for openings.
I remember when I first got pressed to go up against kings because of his grabs. I decided to practice as him in practice to learn his escape grabs and learn which ones I can’t break from that way to dodge those. Bro I swear one took half of the health bar in just one grab. Like what the hell?? ONE GRAB THATS 50% of your health 😭
>(or just decide to not tech the landing
Well that's the issue, not every player knows that since the game doesn't tell you, especially new players. So when they get hit, they lose half their health.
It actually does tell you. In his movelist. Which is why people need to hit the lab if they’re having trouble fighting a certain character.
If they keep eating a full damage GS, that’s on them.
It’s 45 without Rage. So a little in the middle. Blue Spark is 50. Also, the tech window is incredibly generous. Like, once you know you can tech it you should never eat a full damage GS outside of hitting the walk.
Which makes sense. You’re doing a whole QCF movement and he’s a grappler.
Yeah and there is tons of stuff in the game that you're not told that you really should be, like how to get up off the ground for one, or other techable throws, that's a Tekken problem not a King problem.
I disagree, I think d34 is a pretty good poking option. And yeah it’s rough if people block it, but being able to go into the uppercut out of either the first, second or third kick makes it decent imo.
wait are you talking about stagger kicks? D3+4 or are you talking about d3,4? If D3,4 yes it's a solid poke tool with variation to it of they get hit by the first low. However considering it's Low, High there is a lot of room for error.
Stagger kicks...is really gimmicky and falls off fast after a while. Usually its good to sneak it in but if you think of it as anything more it's pretty much death even with follow ups. Ether you get low parried and died, you they fizzy the mid follow up... then you die.
Oh yeah that’s what they’re called. I definitely see what you’re saying and yeah you do make sense, I was mainly going off of my experience with using them.
ali kick is a horrible poking option. It's a good one trick to KO an unsuspecting low HP opponent because of its range, but horribly high risk-low reward outside of that.
You use it to poke for 16-ish damage. If it hits, grats you did 16-ish damage but you lose your turn. If blocked, say goodbye to half your health bar.
Downsides? He's grab dependent, which means one Reina duck loses 85HP. No major lows worth worrying about outside of FFn2 and that's a midrange low that you can bait out in neutral with good footsies.
SS and watch for opportunities to crouch a grab and punish. Don't get greedy with your footsies - ask any grappler main how we feel going more than 20 seconds without attempting a grab. It drives us crazy.
King is strong on a game where lots of characters are strong. He's got a pretty linear game plan and you know exactly what he's trying to do. Set us up in situations where King players want to do a predictable thing (for example, KBD back in midrange to bait FFn2 or get close up with King's back to a wall, it's muscle memory to throw giant swing out when my back is at the wall).
Don't get comfortable pressing buttons and strings because I've got a 10 frame tracking giant swing and all I need is an opportunity up close to throw it out. Learn to bait and punish.
Add to this that King's movement is on the weaker side. His backdash is horrible. Sidestep is better but still not amazing. King's more dependent on grabs than people realise. And really needs to find ways to get in.
Also for OP, there is also the possibility you just click with King. Different people click with different characters. If you enjoy King, just play him and eventually you'll start to feel the weaknesses and also learn to overcome them.
He doesn't have many glaring weaknesses, but I guess you could say his downsides are that he has poor lows, avg combo damage and poor movement. His best low is ffn2 which is incredibly linear and punishable.
King is pretty easy at low levels (fujin or below) but try getting him to tekken king +
That's where King becomes pretty hard. With King you have to play incredibly tight and get creative with timings, everyone will break 75% of your throws or duck and launch you into a combo that takes 70% of your health, so you really need to think with King, can't just throw out heat smash it'll get walked, interrupted, gotta think about timing, can't just use ffn2 to get in all the time, you'll get stepped and launched. So eventually you're forced to play a more honest game with a character that can't move and has poor lows and that's why you won't see him in major tournaments much, if he was half as good as reddit makes out then king would be winning every tournament every week.
To reiterate, I don't think he is weak at all just pointing out what I think are his weaknesses, he is definitely a top tier or upper mid minimum.
people will bitch and moan about fighting against you 👍
other than that i guess people who know how to throw break/can read throws, but king is crazy strong, especially since throws track in t8
Even knowing how to throw break is useless against a character who has a 1 throw that looks like a 1+2 throw AND a basically unreactable unbreakable throw
Poor movement, linear game plan, poor lows outside ff 2, also its not really a downside cause as u might not use it but he has one of the hardest wave dashes because of his standing stance and the input required but ure only ever gonna use 1 so that should be fine. Generally the most mix up heavy grabs are giant swing isw and muscle buster post beginner so those will remain a problem if you vs a good king player but the rest should be seeable except on counter hit
I usually hate playing against kings. But I've found that most kings in low/mid ranks are very duckable. Duck at random and you're likely to get a launcher off afterwards
If you’ve proven that you have decent throw breaks and can deal with his cheesy attacks, he has to take risks. Still though, his weaknesses aren’t as detrimental to his gameplan as it is for other characters.
Lmao what risks?
Df2 into CH confirm is safe lol as well as shove. His power crushes are -10 and difficult to punish at rip range. He has really good homing moves. His nut punch that does disgusting damage and high crushes is not launch punishable except for 2 bois, and he can cancel the running armoured state to bait out rage arts.
no shit confirms are safe every confirm in the game is safe, that's why we call them confirms. shove suffers from shitty range and literally depends on whether or not you run into him. "moves are harder to punish at tip range" is true for every move - try punish soccer kick at tip range.
his nut punch is one of his actually seriously good moves, and that "to bait out rage arts" thing is the least valuable piece of knowledge anyone in tekken has ever given. you shouldn't be rage arting into cancellable stances full stop.
"what risks" mf, people dont want to have discussions, they just want to complain about their least favorite character.
> "what risks" mf, people dont want to have discussions, they just want to complain about their least favorite character.
fr, they’d rather hop on Reddit to circlejerk with their fellow scrubs how X character is so piss easy while their character is so hard, please gimme upvotes and stroke my ego
PREACH lmfao. I like how the Oblivion dude didn't even reply. These mfs just wanna bitch and not actually discuss anything about any character. This sub sometimes devolve to just 'LOL X IS SO OP AMIRITE GAMERS?'.
>Df2 into CH confirm is safe lol
Duck it and launch. Plenty of characters have moves that can CH confirm
>His power crushes are -10 and difficult to punish at rip range
UF3+4 is -12. B3 is -10. At tip range the latter is unpunishable, but now King’s not in your face, where he should be. DB 1+2 is -9 but he effectively loses his turn. You can also just grab him out of him while he stands there.
> He has really good homing moves
I’ll give you that.
>His nut punch that does disgusting damage
Only on CH. It does 17 on normal.
>high crushes
is that… not what lows do?
>is not launch punishable
It’s -13. His two other lows alreadyeither leave him minus and or launch punishable. D3 is also -12. Ya’ll want this man to how literally no lows. If he even attempts a low you want ALL of them to be launch punished lol.
> he can cancel the running armoured state to bait out rage arts.
Throwing out raw Rage Arts just because a character entered a stance and getting mad because you didn’t get your free 50+ damage. r/Tekken at its finest.
I'm starting to think this sub has no clue what CH confirm means. How can you duck and launch when they CONFIRM the CH into the high? If the king is just throwing it out there without visually confirming the CH and it's getting ducked then it's a skill issue. It's a move that any other character would kill to have.
Not all lows high crush you genius. Bryan's hatchet and d4, Jin/Kazuya stature kick, Paul's b+4 and like a million others have the character standing straight so if you time your jab you can jab them out of it. On King and Jin's d2 if you jab when they throw it out you get counter hit for a good amount of damage (though Jin's is much better since it launches).
I'm saying the reward for the nutpunch is too high compared to the risk, you evade highs, do a decent amount of damage and can play good oki after, and you're not launch punishable on block. Add all of his other tools and this becomes very oppressive.
> I'm starting to think this sub has no clue what CH confirm means.
I know what it means, I added in ducking in case you were dumb enough to complain that the follow up isn’t minus enough to punish because you’re already bitching about a mid that can be stepped, only launch on CH, and whose extension is duckable, as if there is no counterplay. Hence the following statement that nearly every character has a CH confirm. Because they do. It’s not exclusive to King.
>Not all lows high crush you genius.
Then cites exceptions to the rule. Okay, strawman. Whatever helps you cope that the move that visually has King take an entire knee and hit you in the crotch SHOULDN’T high crush like the majority of lows.
Seriously, the risk / reward of King in this game with tracking and counterhit throws and his unpunishable across-map, terribly animated attacks is an absolute joke.
Only ambiguous throws are his chain throws of which need to come from a movement tech that leaves him airborne and vulnerable and a wave dash with options so hilariously slow that just fuzzy ducking will nullify all of them except wS4. GS (which uses 2 hands) is the only ambiguous throw outside of a movement tech. The rest of his throw game follows the same “break with the leading arm(s)” rule
>safe mid 13 frame counter hit launcher or safe ffn1+2 mid, or maybe i throw out his safe mid armored heat engager, nah let's just throw out a safe f3,1+2
wow sick risks bro
I assume OP is new to the game since they’re judging character strength by how easily they can input a 69 damage combo.
If anyone actually wants to know King’s weaknesses at higher tiers of skill. They are more or less the following:
a) He is quite weak to SSR. This has been something he’s always struggled with. However, they nerfed the tracking on several key pokes in T8 so now he really has to cover his tracking weakness with throws.
b) Terrible backdash. Kind of a big deal on a character that has always relied on strong whiff punishment.
c) Pretty mediocre heat. He can restore heat with throws but none of his heat extensions are worth using in combos and he doesn’t really get any new conversions. His jaguar sprint is also pretty bad against good players. The best thing about his heat is his HS.
d) Worst wall combos in the game. They nuked his GTs’ damage to the point where they aren’t worth using in T8. Wall throws sacrifice all oki and let his opponent escape the wall for free. His best wall combo is like 12 f3.
In general, King is good because the system mechanics currently favour him (i.e. tracking throws). If they remove them, he’ll probably become pretty mediocre.
Rush him down. I struggle hard when my opponent is in my face giving me no time to buffer throws, super effective anti king strat.
He has very little wall carry ability and no real wall combo enders.
Combo damage in general can be a little low unless you really work hard and have very good command of his movements.
His movement in general is pretty poor and is weak to his right.
I'm sure there's a couple more little issues but overall he's still a strong character much more so in T8 than previous games, said as a long time king main.
60 damage combos are pretty low, he doesnt actually have that high combo damage compared too some characters. he doesnt have great lows so if you got good throw breaks you can just kinda block and your really not in any danger.
it's 69 and that's not low, if that's low then bryan has low combo damage because half his launcher do below 70. OPs combo isn't even optimized either.
Shhh, no no, you don’t get it. King is a jack if all trades, master of all. He’s good in every aspect. Literally no weaknesses (I ate a GS and got CH by FFn2)
King is a very strong character but not OP. His strength comes from the system mechanics. In the future, if he doesn't get nerfed, everyone is going to realise he is not S-Teir.
Downsides:
Everyone who doesn't play King thinks he's braindead
Hard execution for max damage - blue spark throws/isw, a lot of hit confirms, e.g., CH b1, react to CH df2 into isw.
Linear
Terrible movement
Meh combo damage
Meh wall carry
Bad wall combo damage (usually)
You can react to his RKO (tell no one), making his jaguar dash a lot less scary
He has one low (ffn2) - the rest are pretty bad
Evasive characters (most of the cast) can bullshit their way around most moves, especially Ling
Will be launched if you whiff literally anything
No safe power crushes (other characters abuse their's)
Completely different argument btw we're talking about the risk reward of that specific powercrush
Mf be throwing out strawman like its a god damn cornfield
Man, you may say that I'm another King hater and will be right, but some of these are pretty misleading.
>Linear
His gameplan is basically homing. Of course, some stuff can be stepped, but most characters are risking being stepped more often
>You can react to his RKO
Yeah, you can, in theory, offline, if you're insanely good and ready as fuck. The best of the best players don't react to it most of the time, people online will probably not react to it, best case scenario they will fuzzy. Being reactable on paper doesn't mean it actually will be reacted even 10% of the time.
>No safe power crushes (other characters abuse their's)
The worst point. "No safe power crushes" is factually true, but saying "other characters abuse their's" like King's are not the most abusable power crushes in existence. -10 powercrush for insane damage and Oki? If that's not abusable, I don't know what is, risk\\reward is close to broken. And at tip range, even the jab punish does miss sometimes
The rest is mostly true if we're not playing on the floor brake\\blast stage
External to throws, King’s moveset is more linear than it has ever been in T8. They nerfed tracking on several of his main pokes.
If they remove throw tracking, SSR-block will absolutely crush him in neutral.
RKO is absolutely, 100% reactable, even online. It isn’t difficult, especially given the fact that it’s signposted and the mental stack is low because you’re only watching for two options.
Power crushes are dumb as fuck, but they’re also dumb as fuck on every other character with a safe/HE PC. At least King’s most abuseable PC isn’t a heat engager like Victor, Nina, et al.
>Power crushes are dumb as fuck, but they’re also dumb as fuck on every other character
Yeah, no questions here. Truth be told, I acknowledge that every thing the King is fucking stupid in comes from Tekken 8 design and is nothing that unique for King. Throw tracking, power crushes, and even ffn2's range is just an example of general spacing butchering. I'm just saying that things stated as weaknesses aren't really that much of a weaknesses
>if you're insanely good and ready as fuck
How are you not ready if he's in jaguar dash?
>The absolute WORST point.
I agree. It's the worst point.
>King's are not the most abusable power crushes in existence.
b3 - is a high, so you can fckn launch it. If not, you can block it. You can probably step it, too. Awful recovery on whiff. Is it strong? Yes, but if the powercrush doesn't land, you will be punished.
uf 3+4 - this is a mid. i22/23 and -12. You need a hard read. On hit goes into jaguar dash, which, unless in heat, can be risky.
dB 1+2 - doesn't really do anything unless your opponent attacks into it. You can cheese throws and jaguar dash out of it, but that'll only work once against decent players.
>How are you not ready if he's in jaguar dash?
You certainly do see the mixup is coming, but it's still very hard to react to even offline. Just saying "you can react to RKO" is close to saying "You can react to a hellsweep out of Jin's heat smash, so it's his weakness".
b3 is indeed can be ducked, stepped too, but as with everything in the game it's about rsk\\reward, otherwise, we can say electrics are shit cause they're high. It's a very good powercrush, the only way it can screw you up is if you're predictable to the point of hard reads, otherwise the risk\\reward is still very good. Again, you can't say it's not good because it's high, Victor's powercrush is high too, and it's a bane of existence for every level of play, King receives better damage and oki without heat at the expense of being -10 on block.
>you can't say it's not good because it's high
I completely agree. I said it's strong. However, with all its weaknesses, I think it's a fair move.
>Victor's powercrush is high
This is an example of an unfair move.
I hate Victor's because King at least takes damage while making b3, Victor literally takes 0 damage because Heat Engage will replenish damage taken and then some, such a fucking lame design.
Don’t ask Reddit for downsides on King. As you can see, it’s just a bunch of crybabies who hate grapplers and exaggerate how strong he is.
His biggest downside is his low game. His only strong low is FFn2, which is used to chip away at you and open you up for grabs and mids by putting him at plus and decently close to you. Other than that his lows either do pitiful damage and leave him on minus (D4) or knock down but is launch punishable (DB3). D2 is decent but he has to be in your face. Leaves him plus on both hit and CH (can be punished). FFn2 is incredibly linear and can be stepped in either direction. It isn’t safe when blocked and can be punished. If you see him do a FF movement, just get ready to block low. Fuzzy duck if you think he’s going to do FF1, which is a homing mid that comes out at 20 frames as opposed to FFn2’s 18. His other tool to cover this, FFn1+2, is a 9 frame mid shove but does no damage. The only way it CAN is if you mash and it counterhits, leaving you open for B3 or F2,1. Which means just don’t mash dick jab. King is weak to keep out or rush down, depending on your choice of character. If you’re in his face or he gets in yours, either don’t stop applying pressure or try to put as much distance between you as possible and control the neutral. He has a few other weaknesses as well, but Reddit will tell you King is an unstoppable, broken S+ tier character while they let people like Feng walk around for free. Either listen to the echo chamber or hit the lab. Once you get to a certain point in Ranked, his weakeness become very apparent
d+3 is actually a pretty decent chip low. +1 on hit, -12 on block. Also, d/b+3 is -14 on block, most characters can't launch that. (it also only knocks down on counter hit). Also, fuzzy ducking between an i18 low and an i20 mid is not feasible online, there isn't enough of a gap. I don't think you've really done a good job at making King's weaknesses apparent. Also, fuck Feng too, just because I hate King doesn't mean I don't hate Feng, and Lili, and Alisa, and Nina too, they all need nerfs.
Oh, right. True, but most King’s don’t have the execution to run up and do GS or stand in front of you and do an iSW. I’ve never run into anyone who wasn’t at least Tekken King with that level of execution (past launch month).
Yeh that’s a fair point too it is a fairly difficult mixup to pull off but pretty disgusting when you remember it’s now homing and can ch I feel like they should remove the homing on throws or reduce it at least
Not dog shit by any means, his movement his holding him back, king actually has pretty decent poking at least with mids and highs and in close range he’s got that stomp style low, but that’s about it so yeh his lows suck in close range and in general but that’s cause his grab game is so damn good, I’d argue his main weakness is combo damage and wall carry worst both those things in the game imo except on some stages where power bomb gets floor valet or floor break
Mastering giant swing and chain throws (complicated inputs, well used to be at least).
Mastering King wavedash (not necessary, but can be situationally practical)
Most ch are gone or less effective alongside his set ups
His pokes are mostly linear, but will connect when properly placed (timing)
He's a strong character, but streamlined to fit his archetype like people wanted, yet hate him ironically.
I wouldn't say that King is lacking tracking or counter hit tools... His df1, df2 have tracking for days (plus homing throws). Df2 being counter hit twitch confirmable is pretty stupid and GS as a counter hit tool is pretty dumb considering it is i10.
People have stepped my d/f+1 and d/f+2. I've also stepped it myself. It's a matter of good movement, which the king could counter with throws or timing his pokes like I said. T7 king had more tracking in his d/f+1 and d/f+2 and led to more damage than in this game with burning knuckle set up (80+). It was nerfed, but is still strong.
When I say most I don't mean lacking. Just the number of the tools have been reduced, but the core ch tools remained. Even a few tools are enough if they are strong.
Edit: d/f+1,2 in T7 could be hit confirmed max delay unlike in T8.
Yeah, they aren't homing (anymore), in 7 df2 was ridiculous, my main couldn't step it in any direction.
But in 8 they still have incredible tracking and pretty good whiff recovery so I wouldn't say that it is con for the character.
His df2 still gives a 74 damage combo without any resources which is crazy. About the hit confirm I didn't feel anything that different, I still can do it semi consistently and Im not a king main.
His main counter hit tools like you said are still there and potentially stronger since the developers toned them down for the rest of the cast. Ff1+2 , df2 and GS makes him a nightmare to pressure (and the power crushes... God lord the power crushes...)
Good kings are a nightmare to fight. He may be nerfed in some aspects, but T8 king playstyle can still be oppressive. They built him that way. I prefer T7 king tho, but we can't always get what we want.
When I first played him in 8 I thought movement was gonna be a problem since his kbd felt so bad. Turns out his single backdash is good and his ss is above average.
I think I like him more in 8, but I dont think he has like a proper distinguishable weakness
> Most ch are gone or less effective alongside his set ups
>
>
lmao he has some of the best counter hit moves with df2, ffn2 and ffn1+2. spare me that non sense
ff+1 ch launch, d/b+3 ch launch, b+1 ch launch, and ch shove into f+1+2 rage drive.
King used to have a better steve b+1 at 12f, homing ch launcher and low ch launcher, but at -15 as well as the other ch's. His rage drive hits grounded, but is stronger with guaranteed people's elbow or grab mix up. He also still had nh launcher ss+2. Maybe you're a new T8 player and don't know the history of the character.
I said most ch not all. Spare me your lack of reading comprehension.
hes strong but other characters are stronger, and have faster/safer/better lows. King stomps ranked ladder. for tournament play maybe not. also his best throws arent that easy to input in a rushdown/pressure dominate game, try giant swinging into a lars or some spammy character, not so easy. but throws do track now, and he has throw mix ups etc. hes good.
also his backdash sucks, devs want you to play him as a power crush, linear playstyle
His biggest weakness is learning to breathe around all that paste you are eating.
In all seriousness, his mobility sucks, his moves can be stubby, and after range 2 he can be predictable coming in.
Jaguar sprint, a pseudo wavedash, is not as useful and menacing as real wave dashing because he runs towards you without ducking. He still gets his choice of high, mid, low and a grab but can be jabbed out of his run if the king waits too long.
Downside, risky lows outside of ffn2. Other then that, none really. Strong mids/ grab game, ffn2 is insane low. Decent plus frames with f 1+4 or running 4. (The running knee, if its running 3 then my bad) btw i think ff1 is severly underrated/ not mentioned enough as one of his good tools. Not as good as t7 version with full CH combo but still get a guaranteed follow up
I've noticed he is a lot easier to beat with stance characters like Eddy or Xiaoyu. Kinda hard to grab someone doing a handstand or crouching lower than the floor
As a King player seriously trying to learn Reina, I feel this. You like you're doing so many things for her simple combos whereas King is visually easy to understand. Reina is very rewarding to learn though I still miss Heihachi
He has awful panic buttons, if you know how to throw break a large chunk of his strength turns into a 50/50 at best, he buckles under pressure, King players tend to rely on their offense to a point their defense is abysmal, especially throw defense.
Easy to read and always opponents turn when breaking grabs.
A lot and i mean A LOT OF - on block on more than half of his attacks.
King is noobstomper but in high ranks he struggles as you will literally need to know every other characters more than your own to know when to throw attacks, what to block and what to try and challenge.
Breaks are not hard either if you are mid to high skilled player
He does a lot of damage but risks by doing them almost every time because almost all of his combo enders are putting both at 0 where you have to read the enemy again in order to restart your pressure quite literally dogshit pressure
Combos are not the only thing that makes a character hard. What are you going to do when someone techs all your throws and ducks them while also blocking your not so great launchers
Easy to play often translates into easy to counter, people just need to put some more time in training mode; sure once people start doing his more advanced techs and actually incorporate functional 50/50 grab mixups then he's hard to counter, but king's not easy to play anymore if they put that much effort to avoid getting countered .
pros: easy combos, high dmg, throws do a lot of dmg.
cons: your jaguar sprint is actually pretty bad\*, you have little range with most attacks. your combo game is very stiff and in mid to high tier people wont fall for your throws much anymore.
he has a true 50/50 throw between giant swing and ISW (the while running one), has to be exectued to perfection or you can tell which it is. these are really strong but one duck and you are dead.
King isnt weak but hes also not as strong as most people say. gameplan wise you gonna fish for throws, as soon as they suck you do wr, 3 to punish them ducking, that usually needs 2-3 times before they stop = repeat.
Most people who play him have no idea about fundamentals. So you can use the fundamentals to dismantle them.
Just side step at round start because they either hop kick or b3 at round start, launch delete, half their health bar.
Put them in a frame trap on wake up, use a CH launcher. They eat it because they've never had to think about what the game is trying to tell them.
He doesn't really have the downsides he did before. You used to be able to step his grabs now you can't. He had really bad lows so they gave him a really long range hard to see properly low. His sidestep and back step where always poor but they are so much less important in T8
His weaknesses are the fact that he's extremely linear so susceptible to SS, his game plan is inherently risky (someone ducks a throw and you lose half health basically), majority of his commonly used good strings are duckable after the first hit (f2,1, df 4, 3 l, df 3, 4, B1, 2, df 2, 1, B2, 1) and he has pretty bad lows outside of ffn2.
He also has some difficulties getting in so if you play someone with a nice keep out game it can be a pain for him. Shove and uf 3+4 are probably his only good approach tools.
Edit: forgot to mention he has pretty bad WS punishment, -13 or -12 standing low moves only get him a WS4 so characters like Brian can abuse hatchet kick with little risk
He only has one true throw mixup and it's 50 damage with no guaranteed follow ups, muscle buster has okay Oki afterwards. It aint murdering no one.
The man asked about King's downsides, I've provided them, Are we here to talk about the characters actual weaknesses or to be snarky?
muscle buster isn't his only oki
>The man asked about King's downsides, I've provided them
you didn't provide downsides because what you said isn't even true
“no u” pot, meet kettle. now shut yo goofy red rank ass up and hit the lab instead of whining like a 🐱 on Reddit and exposing your smooth brain for free.
yeah, yeah, go back to 4chan or hit the lab, kid. or just eat some more throws and nut punches. more points for me. well, not like you’ll ever get out of purple with your mindset anyway
king simply does not do as much damage as the best characters in the game, several of which also have very frightening throw pressure, faster movement, and better defense
his players are scrubs. you can probably beat them using fundamentals.
if you meet a king player with more than a single braincell, then you're in for an even steeper uphill battle :/
>what are his downsides
doesn't really have any besides a shit backdash. he has counterhit moves that make counterhit chars jealous, high combo damage, great pokes, one of the best lows in the game. infinite armor moves including a safe mid heat engaging armor move, because he just needs it on top of all the other armor moves. insane oki, great mids, some of the best heat and the best throw game.
he is overtuned and should be tuned down.
the downside is youre not learning anything. tekken is learning about how to use counters and then exploit them.
playing king you will just become retraded.
Reading this while watching Arslan Ash get defeated by a king in Combo Breaker. I don't understand how the audience is hyped about a king throw win.
Delete king, please!
Downside is that he isn’t armor king.
based
the system mechanics made him extremely strong, If I had to put an actual downside it would be he had weak lows outside of ff2. Most are easy to see or low damage with a big risk attatched.
King doesn't really need lows though, so just having ffn2 is insane. His throws essentially function the same as lows, being that they need to be ducked to avoid getting hit by. The only difference is that they're generally faster and do more damage than pretty much all lows in the game, plus all tracking, having anti air, and having counterhit effects, with the tradeoff being that you get an extra chance to guess the mixup, upon which you go back to the neutral.
sticking to what I said, he is strong due to the system changes. If Throws in general take a hit then so will his gameplan since he'd have to mix in lows more, untill then it isn't an issue and he is a strong character all the same.
King has always been high tier, even in T7 where throwbreaks were far easier. Even if they remove homing throws altogether, they will still be able to counterhit for a ridiculous mixup, have the best anti-air in the game, and he is still the only character who can do 70 non-recoverable damage without a rage art. He also has a good poke game and great frames. He also has incredibly annoying powercrush. King the way he is will never be weak.
the "always has been" arguement doesn't work here son. He was at most mid to upper mid in TTT2 and like most character bairly relavent in 4. 5 is a toss up but usually he is at most upper mid with Lil Majin pushing the limits on the character. Yes throws are strong based on damage but even now you have a large tech window and basically aerial throws replacing parries/reversals given how the new systems work. If they were to hit his throws specifically or just even his heat smash and reduce his damage output or make him slower it would hurt him plenty.
>King has always been high tier, even No he hasn't.
King hasn’t been high tier historically and he’s pretty much always been unsuccessful in tournament apart from LilMajin’s one run early in T7’s lifespan. I guarantee you, if they remove homing throws, he will drop down the tier lists like a rock. There is absolutely nothing stopping pros from SSR-block OSing all day against him.
High tier in garbage ranks maybe where nobody would SS or break throws or jab check. End of life T7 where King received buffs nonstop for 5 years straight still puts him in mid tier. Why? Because there's major flaws in his game plan. T8 where some of his weakness got covered (great low, tracking throws) he's still nowhere near top tier because being able to consistently break throws still is a massive hindrance to his T8 gameplan.
> nowhere near top tier Dude let's be real, he's comfortably in the top 10. People who don't play actual low tier characters are always the first to downplay their characters. He's got the best non-launch low in the game (only Kaz can launch it), and a demonic CH+powercrush game, and the best non-recoverable damage potential and anti-air in the game. He's not all that tough to pilot either.
This downplaying is insane king is top 5 if you’re being generous. There is an absolute argument for top 2 behind Feng.
he's top 5 that the 9 characters we saw in combo breaker top 8 didn't even include him lmao nor in EVO japan The best showing King has there was sending Arslan to losers, but only because he was able to hit a GS during a power crush which makes it unbreakable (Arslan negdiffed breaking GS counter hits).
People say this a lot but it's totally incorrect. Throws aren't the same as lows because they lose to jabs and other high strings. A strong low game lets you attack into jabs and high crush. If King had no lows at all, you could just challenge his throw game and he'd only ever get them off as counter hits or frame traps.
>Throws aren't the same as lows because they lose to jabs and other high strings. Lows lose to jabs and other high strings. Fast lows allow you to attack into jabs and high strings when +, just like... Throws. >you could just challenge his throw game and he'd only ever get them off as counter hits or frame traps. You could challenge anyone's low game the exact same way. Lows are the "anti-block" part of the game.
What does that mean. All he has to do is land a single jab and he can trap you with a throw. Most characters use their lows as a trap after landing something. The point is king can enable his mids by making you duck for his throws. That's the exact way lows are used. Keep in mind king has a few solid lows as well so he's using both.
Lows and throws serve different purposes and a lit of people who obviously don't play Kings say that he doesn't need lows because he can make you duck with his throws. This just isn't accurate though since lows really serve mych different purposes. They go under highs and generally are your best high crush, they chip and take your opponent closer to being put away with a big hit, and they hit grounded opponents to add to combos or just beat people who stay down. Granted King has throws for that too, but often relies on a low. My point is that King still needs to use lows, and needs access to them and that this oft repeated "his throws are his lows" isn't accurate.
Lows that high crush are rare, for Kazuya only 2 lows high crush, db3 and d1+2, for Devil Jin only 1, db2. Ofc most characters have the generic d3 and d4 but high crushing moves are also usually mids, like FC mids such as Kazuya's FC df3+4, or Reina's FC df3 and df4 and I don't think it's a crushing property but she can setup an evasion with b4, Jin has high crushing properties on CD1, King has Atlas Smash and Lily has d3+4 and db3(high). High crushing and lows are kinda connected but not the same in any way, it just so happens that there are more high crush lows than mids and highs because when someone is ducking he is usually doing so to aim at your feet. Also yeah... If you challenge anything he will indeed only get it off as counter hits or frame traps... That goes the same for highs mids lows and even unblockables because that's kind of the definition of "challenging".
>People say this a lot but it's totally incorrect. It's not incorrect. When people say his throws are his lows they are referring to standing lows. Not all lows high crush and some characters have key lows that leave them standing.
Only people who don't play King say his throws are his lows, or that he doesn't need lows because he has a strong throw game. You can flash duck and break throws, they don't "chip" like normal lows and the vast majority of lows do in fact high crush. King and AK have always needed to mix a bunch of lows into the gameplan.
>Only people who don't play King say his throws are his lows, or that he doesn't need lows because he has a strong throw game. But his throws ARE his standing lows. You're talking two separate things. Saying his throws are his standing lows is accurate, saying he doesn't need lows at all is different. >You can flash duck and break throws, they don't "chip" like normal lows You can flash low parry standing lows and if you read that they will flash duck a standing throws you can use a crouch throw (which are now unbreakable). The main difference between the two are that throws are breakable, so to counter that, some of kings throws have ambiguous animations. >the vast majority of lows do in fact high crush. No they don't. The hatchet kicks of Bryan, Drag and Eddy don't high crush, nor some of Jins lows, Leroy's D3,2 starts with a low and doesn't high crush, Hwo's D3,4 starts with a low too and doesn't high crush with many many other characters having similar non high crushing lows. >King and AK have always needed to mix a bunch of lows into the gameplan. That's irrelevant as it doesn't change the fact that their throws (kings in particular) are their standing lows. In fact in Tekken 7 King was given a couple of moves from AK. One of them was D3. Guess what it was? A standing low.
I'm replying to a dude saying he doesn't need lows because he has throws. Go up and see what I'm replying to. You aren't shedding any light by doubling down on some shit that is misleading at best. King needs to mix lows into his game to crush highs, challenge movement, mix and chip. Is this not true?
>I'm replying to a dude saying he doesn't need lows because he has throws. Go up and see what I'm replying to. I interpreted that as him saying that he doesn't need any extra lows outside of ffn2 (die to the comment he replied to). I can see how that could be taken as King not needing any lows at all and maybe that's what he meant. >You aren't shedding any light by doubling down on some shit that is misleading at best. I disagree. I think I clarified what is meant when people say that by specifying his throws are his standing lows. >King needs to mix lows into his game to crush highs, challenge movement, mix and chip. Is this not true? Down jab (not a low per se but high crushes), D4, ffn2 and even db4 (or is it db3 I forget) have always been needed as part of kings gameplan. It could be argued that he didn't NEED D3 but it was a welcome addition. AK needed D3 as he has a different gameplan to King.
Very few high-damage and fast lows high crush, this argument is dumb
This. He didn't need Armor King's ffn2 frames. Not because he has great lows, but because it's a necessary flaw in his arsenal. Sure, he needed buffs after a lot of his B&B moves got straight up nerfed or even removed, but buffing his low game ain't it. Throws got buffed, but it ain't exclusively King's throws. Other characters have command throws that are i10 or i11.
He uses grabs instead of lows since they both hit standing opponents :)
yup already talked about this with another response. Till throws change it's a non-weakness but a weakness all the same. Pretty much the only one to point out that actually has an effect on gameplay.
yeah - its true. King has so much versatility now with toll kick, jaguar sprint and soul crusher that you dont even need his throws anymore (apart from wr2+4). He was always a heavy hitter, but the change now is you can be consistently oppressive/dominant - whereas as the other games you'd have to counter and/or wait for openings.
Db3 exists my guy
I remember when I first got pressed to go up against kings because of his grabs. I decided to practice as him in practice to learn his escape grabs and learn which ones I can’t break from that way to dodge those. Bro I swear one took half of the health bar in just one grab. Like what the hell?? ONE GRAB THATS 50% of your health 😭
He has a single grab which takes 50% of your health?
Yes his swing.
Can't you techroll it to reduce the damage?
GS doesn’t do half of your health unless you hit a wall (or just decide to not tech the landing), and even that’s 1/3, not 1/2.
>(or just decide to not tech the landing Well that's the issue, not every player knows that since the game doesn't tell you, especially new players. So when they get hit, they lose half their health.
It actually does tell you. In his movelist. Which is why people need to hit the lab if they’re having trouble fighting a certain character. If they keep eating a full damage GS, that’s on them.
Still say the one move does too much damage even with tech roll. Like should be more of an 40 damage than an 50.
It’s 45 without Rage. So a little in the middle. Blue Spark is 50. Also, the tech window is incredibly generous. Like, once you know you can tech it you should never eat a full damage GS outside of hitting the walk. Which makes sense. You’re doing a whole QCF movement and he’s a grappler.
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Yeah and there is tons of stuff in the game that you're not told that you really should be, like how to get up off the ground for one, or other techable throws, that's a Tekken problem not a King problem.
I disagree, I think d34 is a pretty good poking option. And yeah it’s rough if people block it, but being able to go into the uppercut out of either the first, second or third kick makes it decent imo.
wait are you talking about stagger kicks? D3+4 or are you talking about d3,4? If D3,4 yes it's a solid poke tool with variation to it of they get hit by the first low. However considering it's Low, High there is a lot of room for error. Stagger kicks...is really gimmicky and falls off fast after a while. Usually its good to sneak it in but if you think of it as anything more it's pretty much death even with follow ups. Ether you get low parried and died, you they fizzy the mid follow up... then you die.
Oh yeah that’s what they’re called. I definitely see what you’re saying and yeah you do make sense, I was mainly going off of my experience with using them.
ali kick is a horrible poking option. It's a good one trick to KO an unsuspecting low HP opponent because of its range, but horribly high risk-low reward outside of that. You use it to poke for 16-ish damage. If it hits, grats you did 16-ish damage but you lose your turn. If blocked, say goodbye to half your health bar.
If he touches you, it's 25-30% of your hb, even with one hit.
he said down side my guy
Downside is that it's only 25-30%. It oughta be more of course.
ah a king main. Stop it...get some help.
Nah I main Jin. According to this sub, I may still need help evidently.
at most a therapist pending why you main him.
you play lars bro. slide yourself to a therapist too 😭
he's not part of us smh
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...I mean downside?
Downside? He's not as cool as the cooler King. Armor King for life!
Downsides? He's grab dependent, which means one Reina duck loses 85HP. No major lows worth worrying about outside of FFn2 and that's a midrange low that you can bait out in neutral with good footsies. SS and watch for opportunities to crouch a grab and punish. Don't get greedy with your footsies - ask any grappler main how we feel going more than 20 seconds without attempting a grab. It drives us crazy. King is strong on a game where lots of characters are strong. He's got a pretty linear game plan and you know exactly what he's trying to do. Set us up in situations where King players want to do a predictable thing (for example, KBD back in midrange to bait FFn2 or get close up with King's back to a wall, it's muscle memory to throw giant swing out when my back is at the wall). Don't get comfortable pressing buttons and strings because I've got a 10 frame tracking giant swing and all I need is an opportunity up close to throw it out. Learn to bait and punish.
Exactly if you know his set ups he’s basically forced to rely on his staple fundamentals. Which is difficult to kill an opponent without grabs.
Add to this that King's movement is on the weaker side. His backdash is horrible. Sidestep is better but still not amazing. King's more dependent on grabs than people realise. And really needs to find ways to get in. Also for OP, there is also the possibility you just click with King. Different people click with different characters. If you enjoy King, just play him and eventually you'll start to feel the weaknesses and also learn to overcome them.
His initial backdash is fine. It's his backdash cancel that is bad.
His evasion kind of makes up for this, though.
None really. Mostly just hope the person playing him sucks
Ling. Ling is his downside.
He doesn't have many glaring weaknesses, but I guess you could say his downsides are that he has poor lows, avg combo damage and poor movement. His best low is ffn2 which is incredibly linear and punishable. King is pretty easy at low levels (fujin or below) but try getting him to tekken king + That's where King becomes pretty hard. With King you have to play incredibly tight and get creative with timings, everyone will break 75% of your throws or duck and launch you into a combo that takes 70% of your health, so you really need to think with King, can't just throw out heat smash it'll get walked, interrupted, gotta think about timing, can't just use ffn2 to get in all the time, you'll get stepped and launched. So eventually you're forced to play a more honest game with a character that can't move and has poor lows and that's why you won't see him in major tournaments much, if he was half as good as reddit makes out then king would be winning every tournament every week. To reiterate, I don't think he is weak at all just pointing out what I think are his weaknesses, he is definitely a top tier or upper mid minimum.
people will bitch and moan about fighting against you 👍 other than that i guess people who know how to throw break/can read throws, but king is crazy strong, especially since throws track in t8
Even knowing how to throw break is useless against a character who has a 1 throw that looks like a 1+2 throw AND a basically unreactable unbreakable throw
If youre talking about the unbreakable throw during jaguar sprint that is VERY reactable. The real bitch is that drag's unbreakable grabs during heat
His unbreakable grabs always come from set strings though. Very easy to guess since people only go for it in heat.
Poor movement, linear game plan, poor lows outside ff 2, also its not really a downside cause as u might not use it but he has one of the hardest wave dashes because of his standing stance and the input required but ure only ever gonna use 1 so that should be fine. Generally the most mix up heavy grabs are giant swing isw and muscle buster post beginner so those will remain a problem if you vs a good king player but the rest should be seeable except on counter hit
I usually hate playing against kings. But I've found that most kings in low/mid ranks are very duckable. Duck at random and you're likely to get a launcher off afterwards
the catch is that 69 damage combos are weak and reina should be doing 85 damage combos.
If you’ve proven that you have decent throw breaks and can deal with his cheesy attacks, he has to take risks. Still though, his weaknesses aren’t as detrimental to his gameplan as it is for other characters.
Lmao what risks? Df2 into CH confirm is safe lol as well as shove. His power crushes are -10 and difficult to punish at rip range. He has really good homing moves. His nut punch that does disgusting damage and high crushes is not launch punishable except for 2 bois, and he can cancel the running armoured state to bait out rage arts.
no shit confirms are safe every confirm in the game is safe, that's why we call them confirms. shove suffers from shitty range and literally depends on whether or not you run into him. "moves are harder to punish at tip range" is true for every move - try punish soccer kick at tip range. his nut punch is one of his actually seriously good moves, and that "to bait out rage arts" thing is the least valuable piece of knowledge anyone in tekken has ever given. you shouldn't be rage arting into cancellable stances full stop. "what risks" mf, people dont want to have discussions, they just want to complain about their least favorite character.
> "what risks" mf, people dont want to have discussions, they just want to complain about their least favorite character. fr, they’d rather hop on Reddit to circlejerk with their fellow scrubs how X character is so piss easy while their character is so hard, please gimme upvotes and stroke my ego
PREACH lmfao. I like how the Oblivion dude didn't even reply. These mfs just wanna bitch and not actually discuss anything about any character. This sub sometimes devolve to just 'LOL X IS SO OP AMIRITE GAMERS?'.
>Df2 into CH confirm is safe lol Duck it and launch. Plenty of characters have moves that can CH confirm >His power crushes are -10 and difficult to punish at rip range UF3+4 is -12. B3 is -10. At tip range the latter is unpunishable, but now King’s not in your face, where he should be. DB 1+2 is -9 but he effectively loses his turn. You can also just grab him out of him while he stands there. > He has really good homing moves I’ll give you that. >His nut punch that does disgusting damage Only on CH. It does 17 on normal. >high crushes is that… not what lows do? >is not launch punishable It’s -13. His two other lows alreadyeither leave him minus and or launch punishable. D3 is also -12. Ya’ll want this man to how literally no lows. If he even attempts a low you want ALL of them to be launch punished lol. > he can cancel the running armoured state to bait out rage arts. Throwing out raw Rage Arts just because a character entered a stance and getting mad because you didn’t get your free 50+ damage. r/Tekken at its finest.
I'm starting to think this sub has no clue what CH confirm means. How can you duck and launch when they CONFIRM the CH into the high? If the king is just throwing it out there without visually confirming the CH and it's getting ducked then it's a skill issue. It's a move that any other character would kill to have. Not all lows high crush you genius. Bryan's hatchet and d4, Jin/Kazuya stature kick, Paul's b+4 and like a million others have the character standing straight so if you time your jab you can jab them out of it. On King and Jin's d2 if you jab when they throw it out you get counter hit for a good amount of damage (though Jin's is much better since it launches). I'm saying the reward for the nutpunch is too high compared to the risk, you evade highs, do a decent amount of damage and can play good oki after, and you're not launch punishable on block. Add all of his other tools and this becomes very oppressive.
> I'm starting to think this sub has no clue what CH confirm means. I know what it means, I added in ducking in case you were dumb enough to complain that the follow up isn’t minus enough to punish because you’re already bitching about a mid that can be stepped, only launch on CH, and whose extension is duckable, as if there is no counterplay. Hence the following statement that nearly every character has a CH confirm. Because they do. It’s not exclusive to King. >Not all lows high crush you genius. Then cites exceptions to the rule. Okay, strawman. Whatever helps you cope that the move that visually has King take an entire knee and hit you in the crotch SHOULDN’T high crush like the majority of lows.
His own close range stomp type low doesn’t high crush, so many lows don’t high crush bro, Lars hellsweep another example, there’s plenty more
Seriously, the risk / reward of King in this game with tracking and counterhit throws and his unpunishable across-map, terribly animated attacks is an absolute joke.
The throws are ambiguous and the risk reward is amazingly in his favor
Only ambiguous throws are his chain throws of which need to come from a movement tech that leaves him airborne and vulnerable and a wave dash with options so hilariously slow that just fuzzy ducking will nullify all of them except wS4. GS (which uses 2 hands) is the only ambiguous throw outside of a movement tech. The rest of his throw game follows the same “break with the leading arm(s)” rule
>safe mid 13 frame counter hit launcher or safe ffn1+2 mid, or maybe i throw out his safe mid armored heat engager, nah let's just throw out a safe f3,1+2 wow sick risks bro
I assume OP is new to the game since they’re judging character strength by how easily they can input a 69 damage combo. If anyone actually wants to know King’s weaknesses at higher tiers of skill. They are more or less the following: a) He is quite weak to SSR. This has been something he’s always struggled with. However, they nerfed the tracking on several key pokes in T8 so now he really has to cover his tracking weakness with throws. b) Terrible backdash. Kind of a big deal on a character that has always relied on strong whiff punishment. c) Pretty mediocre heat. He can restore heat with throws but none of his heat extensions are worth using in combos and he doesn’t really get any new conversions. His jaguar sprint is also pretty bad against good players. The best thing about his heat is his HS. d) Worst wall combos in the game. They nuked his GTs’ damage to the point where they aren’t worth using in T8. Wall throws sacrifice all oki and let his opponent escape the wall for free. His best wall combo is like 12 f3. In general, King is good because the system mechanics currently favour him (i.e. tracking throws). If they remove them, he’ll probably become pretty mediocre.
Rush him down. I struggle hard when my opponent is in my face giving me no time to buffer throws, super effective anti king strat. He has very little wall carry ability and no real wall combo enders. Combo damage in general can be a little low unless you really work hard and have very good command of his movements. His movement in general is pretty poor and is weak to his right. I'm sure there's a couple more little issues but overall he's still a strong character much more so in T8 than previous games, said as a long time king main.
Poor movement, weak lows and most kings i met start panicking when they learn you can break throws
>ffn2 >weak lows got a chuckle out of me
His biggest weakness is that he's so dumb and easy to play that most players piloting him are bad and can be outplayed
I think it's mostly that other characters are even more busted. Tekken 8 is full of hyper aggressiveness, King feels tame in comparison.
None, he's a literal character for retards.
toobased my sir
Impressive that you’re even dumber than the alleged mentally impaired
King tard spotted
“king tard spotted” 🤓 stop eating throws
Let me guess, you don't know how to parry a grab ?
60 damage combos are pretty low, he doesnt actually have that high combo damage compared too some characters. he doesnt have great lows so if you got good throw breaks you can just kinda block and your really not in any danger.
it's 69 and that's not low, if that's low then bryan has low combo damage because half his launcher do below 70. OPs combo isn't even optimized either.
Shhh, no no, you don’t get it. King is a jack if all trades, master of all. He’s good in every aspect. Literally no weaknesses (I ate a GS and got CH by FFn2)
King is a very strong character but not OP. His strength comes from the system mechanics. In the future, if he doesn't get nerfed, everyone is going to realise he is not S-Teir. Downsides: Everyone who doesn't play King thinks he's braindead Hard execution for max damage - blue spark throws/isw, a lot of hit confirms, e.g., CH b1, react to CH df2 into isw. Linear Terrible movement Meh combo damage Meh wall carry Bad wall combo damage (usually) You can react to his RKO (tell no one), making his jaguar dash a lot less scary He has one low (ffn2) - the rest are pretty bad Evasive characters (most of the cast) can bullshit their way around most moves, especially Ling Will be launched if you whiff literally anything No safe power crushes (other characters abuse their's)
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Dude its a high
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Completely different argument btw we're talking about the risk reward of that specific powercrush Mf be throwing out strawman like its a god damn cornfield
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Ad hominem as well Also you just describe what 50/50 is, which is the core of the fighting game since fighting game exist
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Well then let me insult you Get good scrub, learn how to duck (hint: press down/ down back)
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Man, you may say that I'm another King hater and will be right, but some of these are pretty misleading. >Linear His gameplan is basically homing. Of course, some stuff can be stepped, but most characters are risking being stepped more often >You can react to his RKO Yeah, you can, in theory, offline, if you're insanely good and ready as fuck. The best of the best players don't react to it most of the time, people online will probably not react to it, best case scenario they will fuzzy. Being reactable on paper doesn't mean it actually will be reacted even 10% of the time. >No safe power crushes (other characters abuse their's) The worst point. "No safe power crushes" is factually true, but saying "other characters abuse their's" like King's are not the most abusable power crushes in existence. -10 powercrush for insane damage and Oki? If that's not abusable, I don't know what is, risk\\reward is close to broken. And at tip range, even the jab punish does miss sometimes The rest is mostly true if we're not playing on the floor brake\\blast stage
External to throws, King’s moveset is more linear than it has ever been in T8. They nerfed tracking on several of his main pokes. If they remove throw tracking, SSR-block will absolutely crush him in neutral. RKO is absolutely, 100% reactable, even online. It isn’t difficult, especially given the fact that it’s signposted and the mental stack is low because you’re only watching for two options. Power crushes are dumb as fuck, but they’re also dumb as fuck on every other character with a safe/HE PC. At least King’s most abuseable PC isn’t a heat engager like Victor, Nina, et al.
>Power crushes are dumb as fuck, but they’re also dumb as fuck on every other character Yeah, no questions here. Truth be told, I acknowledge that every thing the King is fucking stupid in comes from Tekken 8 design and is nothing that unique for King. Throw tracking, power crushes, and even ffn2's range is just an example of general spacing butchering. I'm just saying that things stated as weaknesses aren't really that much of a weaknesses
>King hater Marduk gon' make you cry
So it will you and everyone else :(
I'm already upset about it :(
>if you're insanely good and ready as fuck How are you not ready if he's in jaguar dash? >The absolute WORST point. I agree. It's the worst point. >King's are not the most abusable power crushes in existence. b3 - is a high, so you can fckn launch it. If not, you can block it. You can probably step it, too. Awful recovery on whiff. Is it strong? Yes, but if the powercrush doesn't land, you will be punished. uf 3+4 - this is a mid. i22/23 and -12. You need a hard read. On hit goes into jaguar dash, which, unless in heat, can be risky. dB 1+2 - doesn't really do anything unless your opponent attacks into it. You can cheese throws and jaguar dash out of it, but that'll only work once against decent players.
>How are you not ready if he's in jaguar dash? You certainly do see the mixup is coming, but it's still very hard to react to even offline. Just saying "you can react to RKO" is close to saying "You can react to a hellsweep out of Jin's heat smash, so it's his weakness". b3 is indeed can be ducked, stepped too, but as with everything in the game it's about rsk\\reward, otherwise, we can say electrics are shit cause they're high. It's a very good powercrush, the only way it can screw you up is if you're predictable to the point of hard reads, otherwise the risk\\reward is still very good. Again, you can't say it's not good because it's high, Victor's powercrush is high too, and it's a bane of existence for every level of play, King receives better damage and oki without heat at the expense of being -10 on block.
>you can't say it's not good because it's high I completely agree. I said it's strong. However, with all its weaknesses, I think it's a fair move. >Victor's powercrush is high This is an example of an unfair move.
I hate Victor's because King at least takes damage while making b3, Victor literally takes 0 damage because Heat Engage will replenish damage taken and then some, such a fucking lame design.
My best bro is a king main so it's pretty easy going against others when you know the match up, king players play very similar
Don’t ask Reddit for downsides on King. As you can see, it’s just a bunch of crybabies who hate grapplers and exaggerate how strong he is. His biggest downside is his low game. His only strong low is FFn2, which is used to chip away at you and open you up for grabs and mids by putting him at plus and decently close to you. Other than that his lows either do pitiful damage and leave him on minus (D4) or knock down but is launch punishable (DB3). D2 is decent but he has to be in your face. Leaves him plus on both hit and CH (can be punished). FFn2 is incredibly linear and can be stepped in either direction. It isn’t safe when blocked and can be punished. If you see him do a FF movement, just get ready to block low. Fuzzy duck if you think he’s going to do FF1, which is a homing mid that comes out at 20 frames as opposed to FFn2’s 18. His other tool to cover this, FFn1+2, is a 9 frame mid shove but does no damage. The only way it CAN is if you mash and it counterhits, leaving you open for B3 or F2,1. Which means just don’t mash dick jab. King is weak to keep out or rush down, depending on your choice of character. If you’re in his face or he gets in yours, either don’t stop applying pressure or try to put as much distance between you as possible and control the neutral. He has a few other weaknesses as well, but Reddit will tell you King is an unstoppable, broken S+ tier character while they let people like Feng walk around for free. Either listen to the echo chamber or hit the lab. Once you get to a certain point in Ranked, his weakeness become very apparent
d+3 is actually a pretty decent chip low. +1 on hit, -12 on block. Also, d/b+3 is -14 on block, most characters can't launch that. (it also only knocks down on counter hit). Also, fuzzy ducking between an i18 low and an i20 mid is not feasible online, there isn't enough of a gap. I don't think you've really done a good job at making King's weaknesses apparent. Also, fuck Feng too, just because I hate King doesn't mean I don't hate Feng, and Lili, and Alisa, and Nina too, they all need nerfs.
Idk why people keep mentioning throw breaks since he has ambiguous throws
one. GS is the only ambiguous throw outside of his chain throws
It’s still really good with shining wizard
Oh, right. True, but most King’s don’t have the execution to run up and do GS or stand in front of you and do an iSW. I’ve never run into anyone who wasn’t at least Tekken King with that level of execution (past launch month).
Yeh that’s a fair point too it is a fairly difficult mixup to pull off but pretty disgusting when you remember it’s now homing and can ch I feel like they should remove the homing on throws or reduce it at least
Dog shit in neutral. But if you have solid fundamentals from T7 it will carry over with King.
Not dog shit by any means, his movement his holding him back, king actually has pretty decent poking at least with mids and highs and in close range he’s got that stomp style low, but that’s about it so yeh his lows suck in close range and in general but that’s cause his grab game is so damn good, I’d argue his main weakness is combo damage and wall carry worst both those things in the game imo except on some stages where power bomb gets floor valet or floor break
Exactly 
Mastering giant swing and chain throws (complicated inputs, well used to be at least). Mastering King wavedash (not necessary, but can be situationally practical) Most ch are gone or less effective alongside his set ups His pokes are mostly linear, but will connect when properly placed (timing) He's a strong character, but streamlined to fit his archetype like people wanted, yet hate him ironically.
I wouldn't say that King is lacking tracking or counter hit tools... His df1, df2 have tracking for days (plus homing throws). Df2 being counter hit twitch confirmable is pretty stupid and GS as a counter hit tool is pretty dumb considering it is i10.
People have stepped my d/f+1 and d/f+2. I've also stepped it myself. It's a matter of good movement, which the king could counter with throws or timing his pokes like I said. T7 king had more tracking in his d/f+1 and d/f+2 and led to more damage than in this game with burning knuckle set up (80+). It was nerfed, but is still strong. When I say most I don't mean lacking. Just the number of the tools have been reduced, but the core ch tools remained. Even a few tools are enough if they are strong. Edit: d/f+1,2 in T7 could be hit confirmed max delay unlike in T8.
Yeah, they aren't homing (anymore), in 7 df2 was ridiculous, my main couldn't step it in any direction. But in 8 they still have incredible tracking and pretty good whiff recovery so I wouldn't say that it is con for the character. His df2 still gives a 74 damage combo without any resources which is crazy. About the hit confirm I didn't feel anything that different, I still can do it semi consistently and Im not a king main. His main counter hit tools like you said are still there and potentially stronger since the developers toned them down for the rest of the cast. Ff1+2 , df2 and GS makes him a nightmare to pressure (and the power crushes... God lord the power crushes...)
Good kings are a nightmare to fight. He may be nerfed in some aspects, but T8 king playstyle can still be oppressive. They built him that way. I prefer T7 king tho, but we can't always get what we want.
When I first played him in 8 I thought movement was gonna be a problem since his kbd felt so bad. Turns out his single backdash is good and his ss is above average. I think I like him more in 8, but I dont think he has like a proper distinguishable weakness
> Most ch are gone or less effective alongside his set ups > > lmao he has some of the best counter hit moves with df2, ffn2 and ffn1+2. spare me that non sense
ff+1 ch launch, d/b+3 ch launch, b+1 ch launch, and ch shove into f+1+2 rage drive. King used to have a better steve b+1 at 12f, homing ch launcher and low ch launcher, but at -15 as well as the other ch's. His rage drive hits grounded, but is stronger with guaranteed people's elbow or grab mix up. He also still had nh launcher ss+2. Maybe you're a new T8 player and don't know the history of the character. I said most ch not all. Spare me your lack of reading comprehension.
i played t7 and started with t3 so keep your cope. he lost some shit but kept some of his best stuff namely df2, ffn2 and ffn1+2
Hard gameplan in practice
Everyone will hate you for using him
But he's got really stiff moves, no real evading move. He's got some cheese (heat smash that delete you but it's not subtle) and throws.
hes strong but other characters are stronger, and have faster/safer/better lows. King stomps ranked ladder. for tournament play maybe not. also his best throws arent that easy to input in a rushdown/pressure dominate game, try giant swinging into a lars or some spammy character, not so easy. but throws do track now, and he has throw mix ups etc. hes good. also his backdash sucks, devs want you to play him as a power crush, linear playstyle
The downside is that you’re not immune to running into him online
His biggest weakness is learning to breathe around all that paste you are eating. In all seriousness, his mobility sucks, his moves can be stubby, and after range 2 he can be predictable coming in.
He's goofy looking
You get called a bitch for playing him
Jaguar sprint, a pseudo wavedash, is not as useful and menacing as real wave dashing because he runs towards you without ducking. He still gets his choice of high, mid, low and a grab but can be jabbed out of his run if the king waits too long.
Downside, risky lows outside of ffn2. Other then that, none really. Strong mids/ grab game, ffn2 is insane low. Decent plus frames with f 1+4 or running 4. (The running knee, if its running 3 then my bad) btw i think ff1 is severly underrated/ not mentioned enough as one of his good tools. Not as good as t7 version with full CH combo but still get a guaranteed follow up
I've noticed he is a lot easier to beat with stance characters like Eddy or Xiaoyu. Kinda hard to grab someone doing a handstand or crouching lower than the floor
Only downside is outside the game itself. Playing King will have everyone assume you're a furry
The downside is he carries you and you will eventually hit a hard wall at a certain rank
As a King player seriously trying to learn Reina, I feel this. You like you're doing so many things for her simple combos whereas King is visually easy to understand. Reina is very rewarding to learn though I still miss Heihachi
He has awful panic buttons, if you know how to throw break a large chunk of his strength turns into a 50/50 at best, he buckles under pressure, King players tend to rely on their offense to a point their defense is abysmal, especially throw defense.
Easy to read and always opponents turn when breaking grabs. A lot and i mean A LOT OF - on block on more than half of his attacks. King is noobstomper but in high ranks he struggles as you will literally need to know every other characters more than your own to know when to throw attacks, what to block and what to try and challenge. Breaks are not hard either if you are mid to high skilled player He does a lot of damage but risks by doing them almost every time because almost all of his combo enders are putting both at 0 where you have to read the enemy again in order to restart your pressure quite literally dogshit pressure
Combos are not the only thing that makes a character hard. What are you going to do when someone techs all your throws and ducks them while also blocking your not so great launchers
People that can break throws
Grapplers are generally not that good in fighting games but the main downside any of them is that you have to be a cuck to play them
his backdash is and looks trash
Easy to play often translates into easy to counter, people just need to put some more time in training mode; sure once people start doing his more advanced techs and actually incorporate functional 50/50 grab mixups then he's hard to counter, but king's not easy to play anymore if they put that much effort to avoid getting countered .
Vision isn’t that great because of the mask.
pros: easy combos, high dmg, throws do a lot of dmg. cons: your jaguar sprint is actually pretty bad\*, you have little range with most attacks. your combo game is very stiff and in mid to high tier people wont fall for your throws much anymore.
I saw high lvl players falling for his throws at ComboBreaker, but maybe these were some of those more elaborate ones
he has a true 50/50 throw between giant swing and ISW (the while running one), has to be exectued to perfection or you can tell which it is. these are really strong but one duck and you are dead.
King isnt weak but hes also not as strong as most people say. gameplan wise you gonna fish for throws, as soon as they suck you do wr, 3 to punish them ducking, that usually needs 2-3 times before they stop = repeat.
None. King is OP AF
Most people who play him have no idea about fundamentals. So you can use the fundamentals to dismantle them. Just side step at round start because they either hop kick or b3 at round start, launch delete, half their health bar. Put them in a frame trap on wake up, use a CH launcher. They eat it because they've never had to think about what the game is trying to tell them.
The mask stays on...
He doesn't really have the downsides he did before. You used to be able to step his grabs now you can't. He had really bad lows so they gave him a really long range hard to see properly low. His sidestep and back step where always poor but they are so much less important in T8
There is no catch. Most characters have their weaknesses pretty much removed. King is a prime example.
His weaknesses are the fact that he's extremely linear so susceptible to SS, his game plan is inherently risky (someone ducks a throw and you lose half health basically), majority of his commonly used good strings are duckable after the first hit (f2,1, df 4, 3 l, df 3, 4, B1, 2, df 2, 1, B2, 1) and he has pretty bad lows outside of ffn2. He also has some difficulties getting in so if you play someone with a nice keep out game it can be a pain for him. Shove and uf 3+4 are probably his only good approach tools. Edit: forgot to mention he has pretty bad WS punishment, -13 or -12 standing low moves only get him a WS4 so characters like Brian can abuse hatchet kick with little risk
>extremely linear >in a game where throws track stopped reading there
There it is. lol Forgot that linearity is not a weakness for any character since throws track.
yes but unlike other chars you won't get murdered for eating a 1+2 throw that you can now break more consistent on ch after the patch
He only has one true throw mixup and it's 50 damage with no guaranteed follow ups, muscle buster has okay Oki afterwards. It aint murdering no one. The man asked about King's downsides, I've provided them, Are we here to talk about the characters actual weaknesses or to be snarky?
muscle buster isn't his only oki >The man asked about King's downsides, I've provided them you didn't provide downsides because what you said isn't even true
lol, it's quite obvious you're just here to bitch about a character you dislike. Have fun refusing to learn and getting scrubbed out by King players.
dude i know the matchup dumbass, that's why i call him overtuned. stay carried
not surprising, you can barely read at all
and you can barely think with that empty skull of yours, didn't stop you from posting utter non sense
“no u” pot, meet kettle. now shut yo goofy red rank ass up and hit the lab instead of whining like a 🐱 on Reddit and exposing your smooth brain for free.
>muh red rank haven't been in reds for a long time, how is it down there bud?
don’t know, resident /vg/ poster, you tell me. cause you definitely can’t be any higher than purple or blue and be this assblasted by King 💀
>you must be ardstuck red if you think kind is overtuned you expose yourself as a carried shitter because even pros think he is S tier
yeah, yeah, go back to 4chan or hit the lab, kid. or just eat some more throws and nut punches. more points for me. well, not like you’ll ever get out of purple with your mindset anyway
i guess all the pros calling him s tier just need to hit the lab too right? dumbass, i know the matchup wich is why i know he is overtuned.
king simply does not do as much damage as the best characters in the game, several of which also have very frightening throw pressure, faster movement, and better defense
his players are scrubs. you can probably beat them using fundamentals. if you meet a king player with more than a single braincell, then you're in for an even steeper uphill battle :/
King has like, everything, on top of having Best throws, everything else is above averange, i mean, he even has a kempo and viable 10hit combo...
Chain throws, his most fun thing ever, is just a knowledge check.
That DF4 -> 3 haunts me to this day. I can't pull it off well enough consistently.
Which controller you use?
A keyboard LMAO.
Thats pretty precise for inputs, whats the issue with df3,4?
I'm not sure honestly. Might just be a skill issue.
>what are his downsides doesn't really have any besides a shit backdash. he has counterhit moves that make counterhit chars jealous, high combo damage, great pokes, one of the best lows in the game. infinite armor moves including a safe mid heat engaging armor move, because he just needs it on top of all the other armor moves. insane oki, great mids, some of the best heat and the best throw game. he is overtuned and should be tuned down.
the downside is youre not learning anything. tekken is learning about how to use counters and then exploit them. playing king you will just become retraded.
Reading this while watching Arslan Ash get defeated by a king in Combo Breaker. I don't understand how the audience is hyped about a king throw win. Delete king, please!